Episode Summary: "The Santa Dilemma and Our Haunted One-Man Show"

And That's Why We Drink, Episode 463 (December 21, 2025)
Hosts: Christine Schiefer & Em Schulz

Main Theme and Purpose

In this episode, Christine and Em balance cozy holiday dilemmas and dark, chilling true tales. The cozy comes from Christine’s struggle with the ethics of “the Santa lie” for her young daughter. The creepy emerges with Em’s deep dive into the haunted history of the Dumas Brothel in Butte, Montana—covering ghosts, murder, and the mayhem surviving in its shadowy halls. The episode features a blend of reflective personal discussion, advice-seeking, true crime storytelling, and paranormal investigation.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Opening Banter & Personal Updates (02:12-09:56)

• Hosts exchange holiday greetings and update each other on life, weather, pet drama, and general mood.
  • Em mentions being tired and heavily invested in the show notes, despite planning a “quick episode.”
  • Christine reflects on parenting and raising her daughter, Leona.
  • Pet updates: Em plans a playdate for Hank’s possible dog sibling, reflecting on family, canine DNA tests, and quirky pet names.

Memorable Quote:
"I am truly running on steam here. I got barely any sleep. I got beyond invested in these notes." – Em (03:12)

Parenting Dilemma: The Santa Conversation (08:58-22:39)

• Christine’s Dilemma: How to talk about Santa with her daughter without feeling like she’s “lying.”
  • Struggles with her own past ("I felt very, like, misled and confused and, like, I really struggled with it." – Christine, 10:18).
  • Asks Em’s advice, noting the abundance of influencer and psychologist content on handling the subject.
  • They trade stories about their own Santa revelations (from art teachers and mean kids).
  • Em’s approach: let kids lead with imagination, answer with questions, and be honest when they’re ready for truth.
  • Christine vowing to handle it cautiously: “When they ask questions, just kind of suss out how ready they are for the answer.” (17:29)

Notable, Relatable Moment:
"If there are children in the vicinity who have some holiday magic, just change the episode, please, right now or pause it." – Christine, warning parents before Santa talk (08:58)

The Dumas Brothel: History, Crime, and Hauntings (28:09-87:14)

Historical Background & True Crime (28:09-47:12)

• Setting: Butte, Montana, 1890; Joseph and Arthur Nadeau open the Dumas Brothel, named for Joseph’s wife’s maiden name.
• Red Light District: Sex work was legal early on, contributing significantly to local economy. Brothel had three levels (luxury upstairs, mid-tier main floor, “cribs”/basement for miners).
• Economic Impact: Sex work was a stabilizing economic force; police often turned a blind eye.
• Illegality: Outlawed in 1917 (WWI-related), shortly later again in 1943 (WWII).
• Survival Tactics: Hidden basement, secret passages, fake refrigerators to hide undocumented workers.
• Drama & Death: Madams Eleanor, Bonita, and Ruby played key roles. Eleanor's mysterious death (possibly suicide or murder by Bonita), Bonita’s husband’s suspicious death.

Memorable Moment:
"At some point the brothers stopped working together. And Joseph, who’s the only brother you have to know the name of…" – Em (42:06, keeping the complex story organized)

Paranormal Unveiled (52:03-87:14)

• In 2012, Michael & Travis buy the brothel, intending to run a museum/Airbnb; Michael becomes obsessed, allegedly attacked by spirits.
• Paranormal TV Visits:
  • Dead Files: Amy Allan declares Michael is “Joseph reincarnated”—explaining his obsession and torment (58:41).
  • Ghost Adventures: Michael and friend Jenny are both “off,” with Zach Baggins genuinely unsettled. Michael’s issues may also relate to substance use; Michael later dies of overdose (62:11).
• Ghost Phenomena:
  • Shadow figures, icy blasts, hair twirling, being touched or pushed, nausea and time slips, apparitions of women and children, clear EVPs relaying disturbing or warning messages.
  • "People hear all kinds of voices, footsteps, thuds, people feel like they're walking through spider webs…They wake up…feeling violent and aggressive towards their friends." (75:14)
  • Presences identified include Eleanor (with suitcase), Bonita, children possibly sold or abandoned, and former clientele.
  • A haunting photo shared (83:07), described as “the scariest photo I have ever seen” (83:52), featuring a ghastly face superimposed over a ghost investigator.
• Zach Baggins’ Infamous "Experiment":
  • Hires women to dress as sex workers, leaves them alone in haunted rooms, encourages ghosts to “pick” one. Notably unnerving for both audience and "McKinley," one of the volunteers (66:31–69:52).

Notable Quotes:

• "Ladies are in your rooms now…You can choose which lady you want, go to the room you like, and you can touch the ladies if you like. You can do whatever you want." – Zach Baggins (67:35)
• "And you can go on tours and see it. So all of us to now say Fast forward to 2012 where it has been…" – Em (48:10, welcoming ghost-curious listeners)

Interlude: Real-Life Spooks (49:47–51:39, 87:22–90:15)

• While Em recounts hauntings, Christine’s own house seems haunted—doors slam during the recording, causing real-life panic.
• Christine investigates, confirms it’s not her husband or child, and returns frazzled.
  • "I'm still alive. I yelled hello. And then nothing happened." – Christine (49:53)
• Both reflect on dogs' lack of protective instinct and joke about the horror movie scenario.

True Crime: The Mushroom Murders of Australia (90:22-140:36)

Case Breakdown

• Erin Patterson, Victoria, Australia, July 2023:
  • Erin, recently separated, invites her ex-husband’s parents and his aunt and uncle over for Beef Wellington. Ex-husband Simon declines last minute and survives.
  • Guests all violently ill within hours; three die (Gail, Don, Heather), one barely survives (Ian).
  • Police rapidly suspect mushroom poisoning (death cap mushrooms); Erin gives inconsistent, suspicious answers (about dishware, mushroom sourcing, and her own health).
  • Evidence: Photos on a tablet of mushrooms on scales, dehydrator (dumped at landfill after the crime), web searches for “death cap mushrooms” and trips logged to mushroom-sighting locations.
  • Her story unravels—she feigned cancer to draw family together, lied about never foraging, and her prior attempt to poison her ex came to light.
• Trial: Overwhelming evidence (digital, physical, testimonial), Erin’s bizarre witness stand performance (fake tears, obvious lying, and ridicule over her “white pants” on a claimed diarrhea day).
  • Motive: Anger and resentment tied to inheritance, financial disputes with ex and his parents.
  • Convicted on three counts of murder, sentenced to life; currently appealing.

Memorable/Haunting Quotes:

• "In CCTV footage, you can actually see a nurse trying to stop her from leaving." – Christine (97:59)
• "She’s just convinced she’s outsmarted everyone, and it’s like…you have to be on a different planet really." – Christine (125:10)

Notable Moments

• Prosecution details are hilariously relayed: “She gave the police a phone that had the wrong SIM number in it… like… sorry, not the right phone. Yeah, it’s weird.” (117:51)
• Community sense of humor: “Coffee shops started selling mushroom tarts…” (120:43)
• Motive, ultimately: a mix of family betrayal, financial anger, and escalating, bizarre behavior.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• "I just got rabbit-holed into this." – Em, on research obsession (04:20)
• "I just feel so weird lying… Is it okay to lie? No, but in this case it is." – Christine, on Santa (15:51)
• "The place was a mess. The hats that hang on the walls were on the floor, lined up down the hallway…" – Em, on post-psychic visit mayhem at the brothel (78:11)
• "That's the Dumas Brothel." – Em, exhausted by the depths of the tale (85:54)
• "That photo alone makes me not want to visit. Like, it accidentally did backwards marketing…" – Em, on the ghost photo (86:47)
• "You don’t have to murder about it, you know, like, you don’t have to go that far." – Christine, on Erin’s family drama (127:06)
• “A mushroom grew in my yard yesterday.” – Em, immediately after the Mushroom Murders tale, blending the eerie with the absurd (139:34)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Holiday & Life Banter: 02:12–09:56
• Santa Dilemma: 08:58–22:39
• Mid-Episode: Dumas Brothel History: 28:09–47:12
• Dumas Brothel—Hauntings & TV Shows: 52:03–87:14
• Real-Life Spooks at Christine’s House: 49:47–51:39
• True Crime: Mushroom Murders: 90:22–140:36

Takeaways & Listener Value

This episode embodies the ATWWD tone: candid, tangential, irreverent—yet deeply empathetic discussion of the real anxieties and amusements of life, followed by deeply researched, creeptastically detailed stories of the macabre. Both hosts open up personally (Christine’s parenting doubts, Em’s dog drama and vulnerability to haunting), and dive deep into stories sure to fascinate, unsettle, and resonate. Not to mention, moments of horror (a door slamming during the haunting tale, the chilling ghost photo) keep you on edge, whether or not you’re a believer. The story of Erin Patterson stands out as especially recent, detailed, and jaw-dropping true crime storytelling.

Why do they drink this week?
Em: For dog playdate jitters and haunted research-rabbit holes
Christine: For the "Santa situation" and existential parent anxiety

Merry Christmas! See you next week.