E465 Non-Parallel Traumas and Neighborhood App Ghosts

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "And That's Why We Drink" – E465

Non-Parallel Traumas and Neighborhood App Ghosts

Hosts: Christine Schiefer & Em Schulz
Release Date: January 11, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, Christine and Em kick off the new year with relatable tales of personal chaos, trauma, and illness before diving into two chilling paranormal stories involving women named Mary E. Hart. The hosts bring their signature banter, candid vulnerability, and wit to both the personal catch-up segment and the ghost stories, culminating in the beginning of a gripping two-part true crime tale centered on the infamous 1974 Fort Worth Trio disappearance.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. New Year's Reflections and Recent Struggles

Time: 03:00–14:45

• Christine and Em open with a candid chat about their New Year’s experiences—both less than festive due to illness, personal trauma, and exhaustion from caring for their families.
• Christine discusses her resolution for 2026: “Embrace change,” driven by a tumultuous 2025 both globally and personally.
  • “I wrote it down…In 2026, I will embrace change. So, I’m trying to just be less resistant to change, because...the world likes to pull the rug out from underneath us a lot of times.” (Christine, 04:12)
• Both reflect on how illnesses (neurovirus, superflu, etc.), family obligations, and operating while depleted led them to spend New Year’s at home—each with just their dog.
• Christine shares details of an exceptionally hard few weeks: Blaze (her husband) was extremely ill, she underwent emergency surgery, and she was left to solo-parent through the holidays.
  • Memorable quote: "It's been a traumatic couple weeks. Like, very traumatic...Last night I started just shaking. I was having that trauma release, like after adrenaline." (Christine, 11:14)

2. "Why We Drink" – Coping and Comparisons

Time: 14:45–18:21

• Em details her struggles with neurovirus, being stranded sick during a layover in Miami (“the city you defiled,” jokes Christine), and her “scream trick” for throwing up without nasal aftermath.
• The friends joke about how traumas cannot always be parallel, i.e., everyone's challenges are valid and different.
  • Christine: “Some weeks I’m throwing up, some weeks you’re throwing up. Life is a roller coaster. Our traumas can’t be parallel.” (13:25)
• The conversation turns to dark humor about sickness, mutual support, and how family, pets, and the ability to embrace chaos are getting them through.

3. Paranormal Double Feature: The Two Mary E. Harts

Time: 18:21–43:02

3a. Mary E. Hart of Nome, Alaska

• Em tells the story of Mary E. Hart: an early-1900s Alaskan suffragist, journalist, miner, and expo commissioner who became the (willing/unwilling) focus of a ghost’s attention after covering Alaska’s first execution by hanging.
• Fred Watkins/Hardy, the condemned, tells Mary:
  • “Do you think the dead can make themselves manifest to the living? I do. And I shall return to you and tell you about death...if I’m welcome.” (Fred, paraphrased by Em, 22:19)
• Mary agrees, and subsequently experiences terrifying hauntings and catatonic episodes reliving Fred's execution. A spectral figure appears in a photographic plate Mary takes, lending credence to her experiences.
  • Em discusses how a touch from a colleague seems to transfer the haunting, and how Mary's eventual escape from Nome by ship is confirmed by a clairvoyant on board: "I see a man following you around..." (28:48)
• Fred leaves Mary a significant inheritance—$18,000 and 2,000 acres—but Mary forever avoids Nome, and inexplicably, is still dogged by haunted objects from other locales.

3b. Mary E. Hart, aka "Midnight Mary" of New Haven, CT

• The second legend revolves around a Connecticut grave, where Mary collapsed at noon and died at midnight in 1872. Her grave's lengthy and ominous epitaph inspires legends of premature burial.
• Local lore claims her family, spurred by an aunt’s nightmare, exhumed Mary and found signs she tried to escape her coffin—a classic “buried alive” tale.
• The grave’s epitaph seals the story’s status: “The people shall be troubled at midnight and pass away.”
• Sightings of her ghost, stories of fatal curses for disturbing her grave at midnight, and weird happenings in the surrounding neighborhood perpetuate the myth.
  • Christine: “That’s...final destination.” (37:54)
• Local maps even mark "Midnight Mary's" grave for visiting ghost hunters.

4. Neighborhood Lore and Paranormal Encounters

Time: 39:48–42:59

• Christine and Em riff on neighbors’ apps (Nextdoor, Ring) and how local rumors and modern technology fuel ghost stories (i.e., neighbors seeing “strange women” in cemeteries thought to be Midnight Mary).
• Doppelgangers, mimic voices, and the dread of living near haunted locations seep into local collective memory.

5. True Crime: The Fort Worth Trio Disappearance, Part 1

Time: 47:25–88:22

Christine begins the detailed telling of the 1974 disappearance of three girls from a Texas shopping mall:

The Victims

• Rachel Trelisa (17): Recently married, with a complicated family life, wanted to shop for her stepson.
• Renee Wilson (14): Accompanies Rachel, has a boyfriend, receives a promise ring that day.
• Julie Ann Moseley (9): Renee’s boyfriend’s little sister, tags along despite their doubts.

The Day of Disappearance

• Three girls go Christmas shopping; deadlines abound, all promise to return before evening.
• Parents become alarmed quickly; find Rachel’s Oldsmobile untouched in the parking lot—no sign of the girls or mall purchases.
• Rumors swirl online about clues (spare jeans, changed outfits) that are ultimately not significant; Christine pushes back:
  • “Most people assume they were hoping the mom would say no...it's just the idea of two BFFs... and then the little sister wants to tag along.” (54:03)

The Chilling Letter

• On Christmas Eve, Rachel’s husband receives a letter, allegedly from the girls:
  • “I know I’m going to catch it but we just had to get away. We’re going to Houston... the car is in Sears upper lot. Love, Rachel.” (68:20)
• Family and experts suspect it’s not Rachel’s handwriting; oddities abound (wrong envelope size, pencil & pen mix, strange use of “Thomas” not “Tommy”).
  • Christine: “The families were like, nope, Rachel did... this is not from Rachel. We do not think this.” (68:51)

Failed Leads and Cruel Pranks

• Numerous hoaxes and prank calls torment the families.
• A reported sighting by a friend claims he saw the group with a mysterious fourth person.
• Hints of abduction (elderly woman possibly witnessing girls being forced into a yellow pickup), but the witness is never found.
• Police error: Authorities initially treat the case as a runaway situation despite clear evidence otherwise.

Sinister Developments

• The family home is burglarized after a false tip draws everyone to the Greyhound station.
• Calls come in, including a harrowing one to Julie’s mother where a voice cries “Mama…” but it turns out many were cruel tricks by other teenagers. Julie’s mother insists it was her daughter’s voice.

Dead Ends & Lost Evidence

• PI John Swaim’s mysterious suicide and the burning of all his records compounds the tragedy.
• Part 1 concludes with the stage set for further revelations about suspects, family theories, and the mysterious role of Rachel’s sister Deborah.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Em (on trauma and illness): “Life is a roller coaster. Our traumas can’t be parallel.” (13:25)
• Christine (on the supernatural): “He’s like, I know I’m in handcuffs now, but by tonight, I’ll be in your bedroom. That feels like bad vibes on every front.” (24:00)
• Em (on the Midnight Mary epitaph): “...the people shall be troubled at midnight and pass away. Yuck.” (41:44)
• Christine (true crime frustration): “It’s the 70s and also that happens. I don’t know, I don’t know what to tell you, but she was married...” (50:57)
• Em (upon reading the fake letter): “That feels very curt. Very, very...A little too on, on, like to the point. There’s no feeling to it.” (68:36)
• Christine (on the case's cruelty): “I’m like, there’s one thing about being like a child...But...what’s going on with you, my dear? Like something’s up for you to be making decisions like this.” (83:19)

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• 03:00 — New Year’s personal stories, resolutions
• 11:14 — Christine’s trauma, Blaze's illness, single parenting
• 14:45 — “Why We Drink"—coping mechanisms
• 18:21 — Start of Paranormal: The story of Mary E. Hart (Alaska)
• 32:29 — Second Mary: Midnight Mary (Connecticut)
• 39:48 — Neighborhood lore & ghostly neighbor stories
• 47:25 — Part 1 of the Fort Worth Trio disappearance begins
• 65:22 — Christmas Eve letter revelation
• 81:33 — Prank calls & their toll on the families
• 85:07 — Potential abduction witness; lost private investigator files
• 88:22 — Teaser for Part 2 and closing thoughts

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Overall Tone & Style

• Conversational, darkly humorous, at times vulnerable
• Em and Christine maintain a balance of empathy (especially in true crime and trauma discussions) and light-heartedness
• Clear, accessible storytelling with tangents that enhance mood and context

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Episode Utility

This episode is rich in both paranormal folklore and true crime detail, anchored by the hosts’ willingness to share their personal difficulties and support each other (and their listeners) through tough times. Listeners unfamiliar with the Fort Worth Trio case will find the setup and evidence deeply engaging—setting the stage for Part 2.

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Recommended For: Fans of ghost stories, unsolved mysteries, and those who appreciate hosts who bring honesty and vulnerability to heavy topics.

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Transcript

[Christine]

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[Emma]

All my friends these days have incredible chests and it's because for Christmas I gifted all of them Honey Love.

[Christine]

Oh, it's your fault.

[Emma]

They have to thank me for it by the way. Not their own God given body.

[Christine]

Thanks to me, I have given them the gift of beautiful curves. Anyway, Honey Love is great. I've worn it too. Not thanks to Em. Okay, they sent me some as well and I got to try it on and I didn't have to give M's business card every time. They make really great shapewear. Honey Love is now offering a crossover triple bra bundle. So if you want a full refresh on your top drawer, you can get huge savings by buying three at once. These things actually fit really well. They actually, like, don't roll, you know, like most do. I wore them to a wedding recently and I was like, ooh, I feel so chic.

[Emma]

They really look so chic.

[Christine]

Yeah, they really do.

[Emma]

And Honey Love is an independent female founded brand with products designed by women who actually wear them, including the founder Betsy. Um and Honey Love recently launched their new crossover contour bra which features their best selling wireless crossover bra design plus built in molded light foam pads for extra support and a beautifully contoured shape.

[Christine]

It's. It's really beautiful. I'll be honest with you. Treat yourself to the most advanced bras and shapewear on the market. Use our exclusive link to save 20 off Honey [e-mail] Drink.

[Emma]

That's HoneyLove.com Drink. After you check out, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them that we sent you. Experience the new standard in comfort and support with Honeyloaf. Let me crack my first drink of the year open. Did that, did you hear that sound at all? Hang on, I have a backup.

[Christine]

Sounded good.

[Emma]

Hang on, hang on. Do it again. Hang on, hang on. Oh, this is gonna be good. This is gonna be good. That wasn't good. Either.

[Christine]

It feels like every ghost hunt where you and I get the perfect thing, but then we're talking over it the whole time. Hold on, let me try again. This can't be it. And it's like, why do we continue? Yeah, we are terrible at Foley. Okay. But that's okay. I. It sounded great, Em.

[Emma]

Thanks. I. And the spirit. Yeah, yeah.

[Christine]

What is your drink? Because I thought you were cracking open a cold one over there, like a can, but then I realized it's a. It's a. It's a pla. It's a cup.

[Emma]

Like, stupid lids where, you know, you can. Oh, that backwards. And then it technically covers it, but.

[Christine]

Once you've opened it, the flimsy plastic.

[Emma]

Yeah, I just got my. I just got a little black tea situation, but I. I just know by looking at it that they forgot to put the flavor in. But that's okay. Anyway, that's what I'm drinking. And I. Apparently, I have two because, you know, I got a gulp. One. I gotta sip one.

[Christine]

Yeah. And you hate yourself now. You have two drinks you don't want. So.

[Emma]

Perfect. I have the flavoring, so I'll just.

[Christine]

Oh, that's right, you do. I forgot. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you can go do that if you want. I'm drinking my refrigerated iced coffee out of a bottle, so.

[Emma]

Interesting. Do you put it in one bottle to put it in another bottle?

[Christine]

Well, it's like in a big bottle, you know, and then you pour it into a glass. Yeah, but that would be wild if I were just like, aesthetically, this cup isn't for me. You know, some people do that.

[Emma]

I've seen water bottle water into like.

[Christine]

A. Oh, I've seen TikTok, and I'm like, what's happening? But, yeah, no, I am just too lazy to do anything but buy it from the grocery store. So here we are.

[Emma]

Here we are. Well, it was recently New Year's, as this week, it was New Year's. Jesus, when people hear the siddle. I don't know anymore. But for us, it's recently New Year's. Do you have any resolutions?

[Christine]

Jesus. Survive is a good one. Yeah. Actually, my resolution for this year is I wrote it down. I have the app Insight Timer. And it's really nice because every day they. You can set an intention for the day. And it. Like when you. And it's like a little widget. So when you open your phone, you, like, kind of glance at it and it feels like. Oh, you're like, reminding yourself. So usually I put like, you Know, trust myself or, like, be still or whatever, be mindful. And the one I did, sometimes they get a little wacko, but the one I did for next year is in 2026, I will embrace change. So I'm trying to just be less resistant to. To change, because I've learned in 2025 that. That people. That the world likes to pull the rug out from underneath us a lot of times. I mean, not that I learned that this year, last year. I knew that, but, you know, I really, really learned it this past year. And so I was like, you know what? I'm just going to go with the flow and try my best to embrace everything from everything I can't control. You know what I mean?

[Emma]

Did you actually stay up for New.

[Christine]

Year's this year or accidentally?

[Emma]

Oh, okay.

[Christine]

I went to a friend's house for board game night with my brother, and I was like, I need to get home before midnight. I'm, like, so tired. Blaze has been sick for 40 years, and I've been watching Leona non stop, and she. Today, as we record, this is the first day she's in school in almost a month. Not really, like, three weeks. And again, it feels like 40 years. But I went to that game night, and then I. My brother dropped me off at home afterward, and we looked at the clock, and I was like, oh, it's 11:59. Like, we just weren't paying attention, and we were like, okay, happy New Year. Good night. And I went inside, and then I took a picture with Gio, and he was waiting for me, so we took a little midnight kiss. We took a little midnight kiss selfie.

[Emma]

Precious.

[Christine]

Yeah, so. But did you. What? Did you. Did you party? Do you have a resolution? Are you jazzed? Or are you just kind of, like, downtrodden like the rest of us?

[Emma]

I have. I've learned not to say anything about what I know.

[Christine]

We learned that the hard way.

[Emma]

No, I. I was invited to a party, and I ended up not going because when I was with Allison's family, everyone got a stomach flu.

[Christine]

So everybody is sick this year or this past month. It's really bananas.

[Emma]

I think it was neurovirus. I don't, like, know for sure, but it felt like. Did you.

[Christine]

Did you get it or no?

[Emma]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I got really bad, but. So I was in the clear, and I felt fine on New Year's, but I didn't know if I was contagious or not, so I just stayed home. But that means that hankies was my midnight kiss, so.

[Christine]

Oh. Oh, my God. We both had our doggies because Blaze was sick, and so he couldn't go anywhere. Oh, that's sweet.

[Emma]

But so, yeah, that was nice.

[Christine]

And it was like the exact turning point in 22. We're just like, okay. We're just with our dogs now, you know, just alone with our dog.

[Emma]

As long as we got the dog, we're good. Yeah. No, so that was. That was my New Year's. And then. I mean, it was probably the most boring New Year's I've ever had, but it was fine.

[Christine]

I guess it wasn't the most boring. There was a year after Leona was born that I was like. Blaze and I were in bed watching, like, Severance or something. We were like. We fell asleep at like, 10:30. So that was probably the most boring. This one was not quite as boring, but it was a very low key, you know.

[Emma]

Nice, nice.

[Christine]

But also then I keep thinking, well, you know, they say like, the year of the snake and the horse, but, like, Chinese New Year isn't till February, so it's like, we still got a month to go, baby. Till, like, the actual, like, you know, lunar, you know, until we're actually in the near. I know, I know. And so I'm still. I feel like I'm still buckled in, just in case.

[Emma]

Okay.

[Christine]

Yeah. The airbag is still ready to be deployed, just in case.

[Emma]

I. I think being an American in what was 2025, I'll. I'll never know how to take the buckle off at this point.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. I know.

[Emma]

I think embrace change is a very good resolution if. If you're trying to just hold on tight.

[Christine]

That's kind of what it is. It's like, I have to ride this out, otherwise I'm just gonna crash, you know? Like, I gotta just accept it because I've realized I can't force it to be the way I want.

[Emma]

Oh, my gosh. Well, other than that, I. I don't know. I feel like I've. I have nothing to do.

[Christine]

You have a reason to drink besides your boring New Year are boring New Year.

[Emma]

No, I. Well, I mean, I could certainly conjure one up, but, I mean, neurovirus sounds.

[Christine]

Like a good one already, but it sounds like you might have other options.

[Emma]

It kicked my ass, and I got it on on my flight home, and so I ended up staying in my layover for, like, three days just to just.

[Christine]

Can I ask what city you defiled in that time period?

[Emma]

Well, it was Florida.

[Christine]

Never mind. They were fine. Florida, Florida. Always with Florida. Jesus.

[Emma]

No, I Was in. I had a layover in Miami and I was like, I'm not getting on the next plane. There's.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

Yeah. So I just turned around and went to a hotel and then didn't resurface for a while, but it was bad. Anyway, that's all there is to say.

[Christine]

It's like, we just can't stop getting our asses kicked. This, like always, you know.

[Emma]

I'm impressed with you. You haven't gotten sick.

[Christine]

Knock on wood. Yeah. It's been a doozy of them. I don't think we would have survived because my mom was. It's been. Listen, I. If we're asking why I drink, which I feel that maybe that's a loaded question.

[Emma]

It was my next question, so.

[Christine]

Oh, thank you. Okay. So I didn't want to put you on spot and force you to ask me, because it's quite.

[Emma]

Never done it before.

[Christine]

I got it. No, you know, I know it's. You're new to this. I. I'm not. I probably won't get into it. I. It's been a traumatic couple weeks. Like, very traumatic. And then Blaze got very sick. And then he was, like, in the middle of the night. He called me at 4am and he was like, I think I need to. I think you need to call an ambulance. And I was like, oh, shit. Blaze worked at an ER for years in downtown la. He does not say things lightly, you know, especially when it comes to medical stuff he was having, like. He was like, I'm gonna die. I think I'm gonna die. Like, he's like, my reptilian brain is like, screaming, I'm gonna die. And he had this flu, the super flu or whatever, for almost. It was over three weeks, and we didn't see him for, like, weeks and home with Leona alone because my mom and Tim went to Germany for three weeks. And so I was just kind of here with Leona, and I'll get into it another day, but let's just say I was going through it medically as well and had some traumatic events occur during this time. Had to have surgery, and then Blaze was still, like, completely incapacitated for weeks. And then he started going, like, kind of mentally crazy because he's been up here for three weeks with, like, no access to the outside world. He slept like, Christmas, everything I was, like, solo Santa for. And I had to build a bunch of furniture and a trampoline.

[Emma]

Oh, my God.

[Christine]

It's been like, one of those, like, months where last night I started, like, just shaking, and I was like, please, I don't know what's happening. And then I realized, like, oh, I was having, like, that trauma release, like after adrenaline. Adrenaline crash. And I was like, oh. Because Blaze is finally, like, here. School starts today. Yeah, I can take a shower. Finally. Anyway, it's just been a doozy, and I don't want to, you know, harp on it too much, and I don't want to bum anyone out, but, yeah, it's been. It's. Oh. And then I posted online about how it's been a really tough season, and then Blaze texted me, like, half dead, and he's like, it looks like we're getting divorced in your post. And I went, no, it does. Oh. And I looked at it and I. My brother was over, and I was like, does it look like we're getting divorced? My brother goes, oh, yeah, it kind of does. And I was like, oh, no. So then I had to be like, hey, no, it's other stuff. It's not. We're not getting divorced. I swear.

[Emma]

We're just both absolutely suffering.

[Christine]

We're just at the worst possible. We're both, like, in and out of hospitals, and this four year old is just, like, running our lives, which is, you know, wonderful in some instances. Not so much when you're at your physical and wit's end. Exactly. So, anyway, it's been a very traumatic month, so I'm trying to. I'm trying to just, like, embrace change.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

You know, just go with the flow. So I got my iced coffee. I'm just like, fuck it, let's do it.

[Emma]

Well, I won't even try to go after that because I. Yeah, I don't know. I feel for you.

[Christine]

Listen, the only thing that could have been worse is if I were stuck in Miami.

[Emma]

So the only thing that could have been worse is if you also got whatever Blaze got.

[Christine]

Yeah, well, that's true. Then I would have probably been in really big trouble. No, my.

[Emma]

I mean, my stomach thing was just it for me. It was, like, rough because I. Like, I am such a baby when it comes to stomach stuff, as I've mentioned before, so that it was not a good few days. I also did not feel like I was mentally here. I think I just detached. But it's nothing compared to everything you just said. I. I was just throwing up and it went away.

[Christine]

Hey, listen, some weeks I'm throwing up, some weeks you're throwing up. It's. It's. Life is a roller coaster. You know, our. Our traumas can't be parallel. You know, all the time.

[Emma]

So I will say I've told you my throw up trick. Right. For when I'm growing up.

[Christine]

Have you?

[Emma]

I don't know. Well, in case I. My thing that I try to do, if I'm ever gonna throw up, is. It's so stupid. And to anybody.

[Christine]

I need to know right now, to.

[Emma]

Anybody nearby, it sounds so much worse. But I scream when I'm throwing up.

[Christine]

Oh, that's right. I do know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Emma]

Because it, like, closes your nasal passages, so no throat comes out of your nose. And I'm a big nose throw upper. I know that hurts.

[Christine]

That hurts.

[Emma]

So if you scream, it, like, blocks your nose. So I was just screaming my lungs out in this hotel. Like, people must have thought I was dying.

[Christine]

I don't know if they didn't call 911 and.

[Emma]

But here's the thing, though, that has always worked. And whatever was going on with this situation, the screaming did not help. It was bad.

[Christine]

It was don't fail me now scream trick.

[Emma]

That was the scariest part of it all. When all of a sudden, my tactic wasn't working. And then I was like, no, I'm just a victim.

[Christine]

No.

[Emma]

Anyway, so that's. That's why I drink. Because for once, I couldn't trust my own. My own technique. It's okay. Lesson learned. First lesson of the year.

[Christine]

Well, you seem. Are you better now? You seem better. You seem more lively. Okay, good. Good right now.

[Emma]

But I was lucky. Some people in the family, like, were hospitalized for it. It was a bad situation. Anyway, that was the first time I'd seen Allison in a little bit. Oh, just throwing up and screaming? No, she surprised me. She came to LA, like, a week before, which was nice. Although she ruined the whole surprise of me doing the whole house.

[Christine]

But, yeah, you can't surprise each other. That's just never gonna work because you've always got a surprise in store, you know?

[Emma]

I told her. I was like, it's been almost a decade, Elson. You have to assume that if you're gone for a long period of time, I'm up to something. Yeah.

[Christine]

You can't just warn me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There is hungry root at my doorstep right now. And I just texted Blaze, bring it in. Bring it in. Ring the bells. It's here. I'm very excited. They plan all our groceries for the week. Well, all are mine and my husband's and my daughters. They fill our car and they deliver everything that we need to eat healthy and feel good about getting in our. Our meals every Day. We're all three notorious for forgetting to eat or like eating really weird times. And I feel like since we've gotten Hungry Root, it's like, oh, there's just some granola available or like there was a breakfast burrito available. Like they just send things where they're like, yeah, we know you're gonna forget breakfast a few days a week. So you know, we'll, we'll deal with that. And it's just like really pretty magical. Yeah.

[Emma]

And unlike other food delivery companies, Hungryroot has over a thousand grocery items like smoothie sweets, kids snacks, salad kits, ready to eat meals and supplements to choose from each week. I mean, that just goes to prove that they know someone's going to forget like Christine and her family.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

Every now and then you're just going to need someone to kind of go, knock, knock, knock, here's some food. You need it.

[Christine]

Yeah, here's breakfast. And I'm like, thank you. It's really nice. You're going to love Hungry Root as much as I do. For a limited time, get 40% off your first box. Plus get a free item in every box for life. Go to hungryroot.com drink and use code drink.

[Emma]

That's hungryroot.com drink code drink to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life.

[Christine]

You may never know it because we're both wearing tie dye, but Em and I have upped our fashion game ever since we discovered Daily Look. They sent me a little cardigan with horseshoes all over it. I'm like, hey, as a Kentucky girl, now I can pretend to be like the horse girl. I always wanted to be lucky in Kentucky. Yeah, it's like they knew it, you know, it's like they knew what I needed.

[Emma]

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[Christine]

Oh, Esperanza. Yeah, she and I have a great rapport and she like totally gets me now. Yeah, it's exciting cuz listeners of our show can head to daily look.com and use code drink for 50% off your first order. That's 50% off. With our Code Drink you can try on up to 12 premium pieces with Daily Look. Her box in the comfort of your home so you don't have to like go to the store and get somebody face to face who's going like try and talk you into and out of certain things. You know, whether you want something like just for day to day work stuff or you need like new athleisure, Whatever you're looking for, they'll. They'll get it to you.

[Emma]

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[Christine]

Once again, that's Daily Look.com for 50 off. Make sure you use our promo code drink so they know we sent you one last time. Daily look.com promo code drink.

[Emma]

I have a story for you.

[Christine]

Yay.

[Emma]

And I actually have two stories for you. Yes. Well, I got confused in my research and I was like, that doesn't sound like you. And I was like, this lady sounds like she's lived a lot of lives. And then I found out that they're two different women.

[Christine]

Oh, I don't know. Because after that Jane Addams episode and I realized afterward when I read the comments, like, oh, I definitely learned about this woman because I took sociology and yeah, some what did she. She was like the found founder of basically like social work. Social work, yes. And so during like some of my courses, we'd kind of touch on social work and I feel like I learned about her then. But yeah, she lived some fudgeing lives, so you never know. But okay, so this is two people.

[Emma]

This is two people. But they both tell me you wouldn't also be confused because I typed in after I knew the name, I would type in like ghost story and then her name and every. Both of these people came up. I typed in ghost story Mary e. Hart. And there's two of them.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Emma]

There's two Mary E. Hearts that have paranormal newsworthy stories.

[Christine]

Is a heart a H a r.

[Emma]

Spelled the same H A R T both of them. And Mary is M A R Y E H A R T. As I was like, well, I have every right to be confused. So you have. This is the story of Mary e. Hart and the story of Mary e. Hart.

[Christine]

Okay. Okay.

[Emma]

Although one of them is known as midnight Mary.

[Christine]

Oh, and one of them's not noontime Mary.

[Emma]

So the first Mary Ehart we're gonna talk about. All the information I got was from one article called American ghost walks. It was a very good article, but it was also what confused the hell out of me during my research because I was like, I did not find this anywhere else.

[Christine]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Emma]

Totally different person. So this is in the early 1900s in Gnome, Alaska.

[Christine]

Oh, okay. I don't think we've ever. Have we ever done a story out of Gnome, Alaska that's so specific?

[Emma]

I don't think so. Alaska's a rare one.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

I remember I did the Red Onion Saloon.

[Christine]

The Red Onion Saloon. I remember. And I think somebody mailed a T shirt that I still have from there. And then also Israel Keys, so. Oh, good track record for Alaska, you know.

[Emma]

Oh, yeah, yeah. It's rare, but heavy every time.

[Christine]

Yeah, apparently.

[Emma]

Well, so in Nome, Alaska, in the early 1900s, Mary E. Hart, she was actually. It's very funny that you mentioned Jane Addams. She was also very Jane Addams coded. She was huge in the community. She was big in local politics. She was a suffragist. She was a founder of many women's clubs. She was a journalist. She was a gold miner. Literally. I mean, they could be buddies.

[Christine]

I love this.

[Emma]

She also was the commissioner for any Alaskan exhibits at, like, world fairs and expos.

[Christine]

Oh, so she's just like the foremost expert. Like, the. She's like. When you have an expert witness at a trial and you're like, just call her in.

[Emma]

She's essentially calling Mary Miss Alaska. Yeah.

[Christine]

Love her.

[Emma]

So since she was a journalist, that's the thing you have to know the most about her. She was, you know, bopping around, being a reporter, blah, blah, blah. But one day, Mary decides to leave. Nomen never return. Because she was being haunted by a ghost named Fred.

[Christine]

What?

[Emma]

Apparently, for years, she was being.

[Christine]

I never knew this, which I would not have expected where this was going. I thought she would become the ghost, you know?

[Emma]

Yeah, you. Of course, I. That makes total sense. So, okay, in 1902, Mary was a reporter at Alaska's very first execution by hanging. And they're like, oh, yeah, lady, you.

[Christine]

Want to be a reporter? Step on up and watch this hanging. She's like, don't mind if I do.

[Emma]

Yeah, exactly.

[Christine]

Mr.

[Emma]

I've never been better ready for. For an editorial or. I don't know, what do they call it? A news flash. News flash.

[Christine]

News flash. Read all about it.

[Emma]

So, okay, she's. It's the. Alaska's first execution by hanging. And it is the first. There's a quote. The first under legal judicial authority.

[Christine]

The first under legal.

[Emma]

Does that mean, like the first legal.

[Christine]

Like, she was allowed, I think. Was it.

[Emma]

Oh, I don't know.

[Christine]

Oh, so the first, like, Official hanging by, like, judicial proceedings rather than like just a lynch mob or something.

[Emma]

Just people taking it into their own hands.

[Christine]

Yeah, I see.

[Emma]

Yeah. The first officia. So before his execution, this guy named Fred, he was known as Fred Watkins, but he was also known by Fred Hardy. Just fun fact, two last names. But before his execution, he was with Mary because I guess she was interviewing him and she asked, or he started asking her about death and what she thinks is going to happen to him. Does she think he's going to come back as a spirit? And this is apparently a quote from Fred. He said, do you think the dead can make themselves manifest to the living? I do. And I shall return to you and tell you about death and tell you about the beyond if I'm welcome.

[Christine]

Why? Just because she's interviewing him.

[Emma]

Yeah. I get like, well, maybe it's the last person he's ever going to talk to, so maybe desperate.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

So not knowing what to say because Mary's just been asked to be haunted. She said, sure, Fred, whatever you want. But she apparently had an immediate bad feeling about saying that.

[Christine]

Yeah, that sucks. She just got, like, cornered into agreeing to that, I feel.

[Emma]

Yeah. And if ghosts are real, you're talking to someone who's about to be a ghost in, like, 20 minutes. Like, that's. It's an immediate invitation. It feels like, like by nightfall he'll be at your house.

[Christine]

You know, he's like, I know I'm in handcuffs now, but by tonight I'll be in your bedroom. And it's like, well, hello. That feels like bad vibes on every front. Yeah, yeah.

[Emma]

No, thank you. So she immediately regretted it. And once he died, she was still the reporter of the day. She had to take photos of him in his coffin to, I guess, prove that he had passed. And although she was alone in the room, there is a picture of Fred in his coffin and an older man, quote, standing next to Fred's coffin and fading through the wall.

[Christine]

Ew. He's like, I'm here.

[Emma]

Yeah. So part of me is like, is it Fred? Was it like somebody else coming to, like, greet him? Was it like his grim reaper of sorts?

[Christine]

Oh, his psychopomp.

[Emma]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because Fred was only 26, so for him to be described as an older man.

[Christine]

Oh. So, yeah, you're right. Maybe it was like his, like, escort to the underworld.

[Emma]

Yeah. And to be fair, in 1902, maybe at 26, you are.

[Christine]

I guess so if you. Well, like, maybe he was wearing his, like, normal clothes, you know, like a hat and Maybe he looked.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Older when he's not a prisoner. Yeah. A little more mature. Yes, maybe.

[Emma]

Well, there is an article titled occult features of the Execution of Fred Watkins in Alaska. And in there, they actually printed the picture that Mary took. So I'm sending that to you right now. Oh. And here is him in a coffin. And to the left is a man fading through the wall.

[Christine]

Okay, first of all, the guy in the coffin, I mean, he's giving Nosferatu. With those hands.

[Emma]

He looks very Dracula.

[Christine]

Like, what is happening? And the fact that they, like, prop the coffin up for pictures is, of course, the most Victorian thing you could hear. Yeah. Oh, my God. But there is, like, this old dude just like, oh, can I walk out of this door now?

[Emma]

Like, let me scoot on past you.

[Christine]

Scoot up. Oops. Just scooch on past. And it looks almost like he's got a bald spot on top of his head.

[Emma]

Yeah. Yeah, he does. It looks like there's a comb over situation. So maybe he's older.

[Christine]

Maybe we're.

[Emma]

Anyway, so that was the picture that she got.

[Christine]

Creepy. I love that it's in the newspaper, though.

[Emma]

That's exciting. I love.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

I don't know if it's because she could pull her strings as the reporter or if it was because she was so sensible and everyone knew her in town. They were like, if she believes that, it's got to be real.

[Christine]

Or they were just like, oh, a ghost. Throw it on the front page. Don't give that woman credit. Just put it on the front page. Oh, I missed that.

[Emma]

So the next few nights after this, Mary had dark dreams of Fred and this mystery man. And eventually these dreams turned into reality when a few nights later, Fred's spirit appeared.

[Christine]

No. Which.

[Emma]

So I guess, you know what? He said he was gonna try to haunt her, and he's doing it pretty successfully, which makes me question every other person that has said that they would come to haunt and. And haven't. I'm like, well, Fred could do it.

[Christine]

Yeah. Yeah. Fred could do it in, like, 48 hours.

[Emma]

Yeah. Like, so without. Like, what? Like, it's hard.

[Christine]

So hard.

[Emma]

When he appeared, Mary swore that she kind of went into this, like, catatonic state and felt his experience of him being executed.

[Christine]

Hey, that's not fair. You didn't agree to that. She didn't agree to that.

[Emma]

I guess it was a vague agreement. She was just like, I sure, whatever that means.

[Christine]

That's dark.

[Emma]

Including, like, all the way down to feeling a rope tightening around her neck. She said that she like, felt the full event. And as she was literally in the middle of about. She was about to faint from losing oxygen, her co worker named Sunshine, of all things.

[Christine]

Oh.

[Emma]

Found her while she was having this moment where she, like, couldn't breathe and she was freaking out. I think she was actually, like, frozen in place. And that was the weird part for Sunshine. She was like, girl, what is going on? Went over to touch her shoulder and two things happened. So then Mary, by being touched on the shoulder, was kind of woken up from this trance that she was in. But that touch seemed to transfer the experience over to Sunshine. And so now Sunshine is freaking out. And apparently she shouted the words, hardee's here. And that was one of Frank's last names. And then she started speaking in this voice that sounded like Fred's voice, according to Mary, and she started describing the events of being execut.

[Christine]

Oh, my word. Okay.

[Emma]

So luckily, Sunshine got off, like, scot free after that and never had to deal with this guy again, hopefully. But Fred continued to bother Mary after. After this happened. So he was doing it for so long and so intensely, by the way, that Mary decided that she was just going to take a ship and get out of town, which I like to take a ship.

[Christine]

Could take a ship.

[Emma]

While she was on the ship, she actually met a clairvoyant who told Mary, I see a man following you around. And then described Fred.

[Christine]

Oh, he came on the boat with.

[Emma]

Yeah, he's here.

[Christine]

Oh, my God.

[Emma]

Luckily, I guess it was more that Fred was, like, on the dock watching her, because as the boat went away from the dock, it seemed that Fred faded away from being able to.

[Christine]

Oh, so maybe he was, like, trapped to that area because literally landlocked. Good for him. I mean, good for her. Good for her. Yeah.

[Emma]

Well, because this was the first time she felt free through all this, she decided she was just not coming back to know him because she didn't want to show up. And he's still there.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

So she never went back to that area.

[Christine]

Jeez.

[Emma]

However, because she was the last person that was kind to Fred before he died. He made arrangements before he died to leave all of his belongings to Mary, which, like, talk about a random act. Kindness.

[Christine]

Kindness is a stretch. Maybe. Maybe more.

[Emma]

Just like, not asshole y. I guess.

[Christine]

It feels like you're just burdening, like, what kind of belongings did he really have?

[Emma]

He had 500 in possessions, which was the equivalent of $18,000.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Emma]

Plus additional money in a bank account and about 2,000 acres of land.

[Christine]

Jesus.

[Emma]

So Mary's Pretty made in the shade.

[Christine]

I guess so.

[Emma]

And I guess the acreage was in California, because that's where she ends up. And years later, Mary is. Which you would think if. You would think if you inherited his land and you're trying to escape him.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

Going to his land, it feels like a trap.

[Christine]

Right. Like, that's why I, like. Yeah. I don't know about nice. Because it feels like this is a trap. Like he's gonna, like, corner her by giving her all this money and being like, well, now I can haunt you forever. But it. Right. Yeah, but. So he didn't show up at the land that was.

[Emma]

Didn't show up.

[Christine]

He didn't think to do that.

[Emma]

No, I don't. I don't know what he was thinking. I'll tell you.

[Christine]

I don't know what he was thinking.

[Emma]

I haven't gotten a chance to talk.

[Christine]

To him yet, but that's probably for the best.

[Emma]

Well, years later, Mary was working at another Expo World Fair or something like that. And this is just an added fun fact about her story is that in her office, her personal office, she had chairs from this place called Baranoff's Hill, which was a haunted area that was known to have its own ghost called the lady in Blue.

[Christine]

Oh, wow. That's a twist.

[Emma]

Finally, a different color. However, just like every other colorful lady we've ever described, she was jilted, died of heartbreak, and is now seen and heard crying throughout the building.

[Christine]

Classic.

[Emma]

Well, eventually, Baranoff's Hill burned down. And the only two items that could be salvaged from the fire were the chairs that are now in Mary's office.

[Christine]

Ooh.

[Emma]

A lot of people think that maybe Mary escaped, Fred. But still has the lady in Blue attached to her belongings. That's just. That's just a fun fact of it all, is that she ended up actually being in the papers twice for two different ghosts.

[Christine]

Man. She, like, in different. In completely different areas.

[Emma]

Yeah. And in different ways. And in 1929, she ended up passing away in California. But she had made headlines, especially for being, like, a, quote, sensible woman who was in local politics and all this. But just the ghosts kept following her. Or that was her lore, at least. So that is Mary E. Hart number one.

[Christine]

Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. This is confusing already, because now I'm thinking another one. And you've already moved from Alaska to California. Yeah.

[Emma]

Okay. So that was Mary Hart E. Hart number one. And you will see why I was confused at first. And I thought these were the same people.

[Christine]

Sure.

[Emma]

So the other Mary Hart AKA Midnight Mary.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Emma]

She is in New Haven, Connecticut. Oh, and she is buried currently in Evergreen Cemetery. And her grave is. Is what's haunted here. So Mary Hart, she died in 1872. And her gravestone, I feel like they didn't come up with really anything clever. They just kind of described what happened to her as her grave. As her little epitaph. It says, at high noon, just from and about to renew her daily work in her full strength of body and mind. Mary E. Hart, having fallen prostrate, remained unconscious until she died at midnight, October 15, 1872. Born December 16, 1824.

[Christine]

Wow, what a catchy epitaph.

[Emma]

Yeah, we could have shortened that for sure. Yeah.

[Christine]

Like, why do we need to say, like, put her business out there like that?

[Emma]

Why did she fall prostrate and remain unconscious? I don't even know.

[Christine]

Like, now we've got questions. Now it's like, what? Give her some privacy.

[Emma]

Yeah, so all you need to know is my cliff notes of that is at 48, she collapsed at noon, was pronounced dead at midnight, and is now buried at Evergreen. Right.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Emma]

But after her funeral, her aunt had this horrible, horrible nightmare.

[Christine]

Oh, no.

[Emma]

That Mary in her coffin was alive and begging for help. Sounding like you. She convinced the family to exhume. Oh. And when they opened the coffin, it said that they found scratches on the coffin lid as well as, quote, bloody. Nope. Mary's bloody nails broken and a petrified look on her face.

[Christine]

Hey, that's my nightmare.

[Emma]

It's thought that when she collapsed at noon and for those 12 hours before she was pronounced dead, maybe she had a stroke and she just looked asleep and wasn't moving because she was paralyzed and the family just assumed she was dead.

[Christine]

That happened back then. And like, I know, I wonder because it's like, well, you wake up from that nightmare and what do you do? Because it's like, first of all, it's too late now, right? I assume, like, oh, we got to dig up the grave. It's like, well, by now she's probably dead. But, like, do you want to find out? Do you have to find out? Otherwise she's going to keep coming to your dreams and saying, like, I need people to know. I don't know. It's just like, what do you even do to be the bearer of this news as the aunt? Like, yeah, dig her up.

[Emma]

I mean, and she must have sounded panic stricken to convince other people to dig.

[Christine]

I mean, if I were her, I, like, I wouldn't even want to know. I'd be like, don't tell me. Like, I know.

[Emma]

I get it. I get it. I'd be. And I wouldn't tell anyone about that dream. I'd be like, I'm. I'm just gonna. I mean, she's dead now. She's. She's certainly by the time that the dream happened, she was probably not in a better place. I don't know. I don't know what I would do, actually. I. Now I'm panicking. Hey, I've officially spiraled.

[Christine]

Yeah. I don't.

[Emma]

You just saw it in real time.

[Christine]

That's why that. That's. I feel like that's why the aunt was picked. She was like, who's gonna be the most like, like, thinking straight person in my family? It's not mom or dad. It's not. Yeah. I.

[Emma]

It's not Christina M. It must have been horrified. I mean, I. Because I. I'm. If. Oh, my God. Yeah. I'm imagining that that dream could happen if I lost anybody. And now I'm panicking about anybody now. Am I going to be that person at every single funeral where I'm like, are you sure? Are you sure?

[Christine]

Have you checked? Let me just, like, feel for a pulse. Oh, it's so scary.

[Emma]

So luckily, there is no actual record that this story is true.

[Christine]

Okay, well, that's nice. That's comforting.

[Emma]

The only reason or the inspiration for this story was that. That. Those that were. That verbiage is on her epitaph that she collapsed and then she was pronounced dead at midnight. And so people just say, like, oh, what could I. I don't know. It inspired the story.

[Christine]

Okay. Okay. And it's a college town. Like, Yale's there. I feel like that's like, prime location for kind of like a spooky story in the cemetery.

[Emma]

Don't they have, like, Skull and Bones is one of their, like, secret societies? Yeah.

[Christine]

And they have all the. They were there. It's. It's where the bodies were being. That's like where the medical school is. Like, where the bodies were being stolen for.

[Emma]

Yes.

[Christine]

From graves and stuff.

[Emma]

So we have to hope that Mary E. Hart's story is just a made up one. But because of this urban legend, Mary is now still said to wander the cemetery at night and angry about her fate that she was buried alive. She will now curse you if you taunt. If you taunt her.

[Christine]

Oh, well, yeah. I mean, let's not test that theory.

[Emma]

Yeah. And I don't blame her either. And in fact, the local belief now is that if you go into the Cemetery at midnight. If you mess with her grave at all, you will soon die. And the stories kind of vary on how the deaths play out. Like, there's one that says. Well, there's one that says, like, three teenagers went out there and messed with her grave. And then eventually, one by one, they all died from having their throat ripped out like, crazy. Crazy. There's another one that says some men came into the cemetery at midnight to see if Mary would appear. And then they all heard a noise. They all got freaked out, and when they tried to climb over the gate, they all slipped in the same way and were impaled by the iron spikes.

[Christine]

Oh, Jesus Christ is like final destination.

[Emma]

Like, at some point, there's got to be warnings everywhere. Like, do not just stop coming.

[Christine]

Don't even come in here.

[Emma]

Yeah, there's another story where two guys were going to go see Midnight Mary or see if she'd show up. One of them chickened out, so he didn't go. But then he didn't hear from his friends, so he ended up going to the cemetery to see if he was okay. And he was, like, frozen in fear, dead in the bush.

[Christine]

Oh, no, not in the bush.

[Emma]

Not in the bush. There's another one that says. Oh, this is from the general manager there. And he said that he came out one night because a security alarm was triggered. And when he got to the cemetery, he recalled it feeling, like, eerily dark and empty and that nobody and nothing was there but him. Ooh. Which is especially weird because security was supposed to be there. By the way, as a general manager, I'd be like, where the were you?

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Emma]

But he got freaked out by how creepy it felt, and he tried to leave. And even though his car was turned on, it would not move.

[Christine]

Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no.

[Emma]

He said. He was quoted saying it was like his car was being held back. And when he checked his car's clock, it said that it was one minute to midnight. And he then said, the clock on my radio said 11:59. I heard a sound. I said, let's get the hell out of here. A branch fell near my car. I hit the gas. My wheels were spinning on the ice, and I got out of the gate exactly at midnight. So. Just eerie. Just eerie. And then, by the way, a different article told me that this is a quote from that article. When the general manager, when he came into work the next day, there was never a record of an alarm going off at any of the buildings, even though he had gotten a call from someone Saying, you need to come out. There was a security breach.

[Christine]

Oh, dear. Oh, dear.

[Emma]

Another story. Well, I don't know if it's really a story, but I guess it's local lore that if you live near the cemetery, weird things happen, like, on your street, and, like, the neighbors always witness stuff, and they're looking out the window to the cemetery.

[Christine]

Ooh, that's kind of fun. Like, neighborhood lore. Okay.

[Emma]

I feel like you could relate to that, though. Like, you just look out into the cemetery and there's.

[Christine]

Yeah, but, like, I didn't really know my neighbors at all, so it's like, I wish I had had somebody who lived nearby that I could, like, ask, you know? But it would be cool if, like.

[Emma]

Your local neighbor's app is literally just, like, people talking.

[Christine]

I know. I should check. I should get on next door and see. See what people are chatting about if.

[Emma]

Everyone'S ring doorbells are all getting something weird. Well, so there was one woman who said in. In the neighborhood that she would walk around with her cousin, and she. One night she was out there. She felt like something really weird was out in the cemetery. She says that she has seen or people in her neighborhood have seen the woman walking by every now and then that they can't recognize, and they assume that that's Midnight Mary. It's probably just someone walking their dog. But the one woman who's gone into the cemetery at night, she's gone in with her cousin, and there was one night where she heard someone calling her name, and she assumed it was her cousin from a distance that she couldn't see. And it ended up being a doppelganger mimicking her cousin, because when she turned around, her cousin was on the opposite side of the cemetery.

[Christine]

Yuck.

[Emma]

So I do want to say the. One of the reasons that this urban legend even exists, because the only information that I've mentioned so far that's on her grave is that, like, oh, she was. She fell and collapsed, and then she died at midnight. And therefore she's Midnight Mary, but also on her grave. I don't know why they chose to put this quote, but on her grave. The only other thing it says in bold black letters is, the people shall be troubled at midnight and pass away. Yuck.

[Christine]

What?

[Emma]

So apparently that's from, like, the Book.

[Christine]

Of Job, but what a choice for your Bible quote.

[Emma]

For obvious reasons, people have decided that that is Mary warning us that if you. If you're troubled at midnight, or if you come to me at midnight and you cause any problems, you will die.

[Christine]

But so she died at midnight, right?

[Emma]

She died at midnight.

[Christine]

So maybe somebody's just like, put that on her grave, being like, well, she died at midnight. She loved the bot. She loved Job or whatever.

[Emma]

She really loved the Bible and the word midnight. So let's.

[Christine]

She died at midnight. So, you know, people. What does it say? People drop dead at midnight, or what is it?

[Emma]

The people shall be troubled at midnight and pass away, which is what happened.

[Christine]

She did. Right. So I don't know.

[Emma]

I guess that makes sense why they would have put that on there. But it certainly, in 2026, sounds very.

[Christine]

Extremely ominous. Yeah.

[Emma]

Yeah. So the last thing I'm gonna say is that apparently I could not find one online. I tried looking, but apparently if you go to Evergreen Cemetery yourself, they have a map, and on their map is Midnight Mary's grave. And she's like a ghostly landmark because a lot of people are looking for her, and I guess they would rather show you exactly how to get there instead of you die in some weird way at midnight.

[Christine]

I suppose so. Yeah. Yeah.

[Emma]

Anyway, that is Mary Eart and Mary Eart.

[Christine]

I can't believe there were two of them.

[Emma]

That feels like it should have been a really good, like, true crime plot twist that there were two.

[Christine]

Yes. Because I've done a story like that of two people, and I think their names were Mary or maybe even three people. I can't remember the exact story, but I remember it's in the 200s, I think, or maybe 1/ hundreds did. So when. When did Mary number two pass away? What year was that?

[Emma]

Mary. So Midnight mary died in 1872. But then the one that I talked about originally, I should have done them chronologically. She died in 1921. So they're like 50 years apart, their deaths.

[Christine]

Damn. That's wild, though.

[Emma]

Although maybe Midnight Mary, who died in 1872, maybe she was reincarnated and has.

[Christine]

The same damn name.

[Emma]

Can you imagine not being able to escape that?

[Christine]

They're like, this time, don't die at midnight. Don't it up it up this time anyway.

[Emma]

Yeah. Wow.

[Christine]

What a story. Stories. Very good work. What do you want to do for our yappy hour while I go pee and do you want me to brainstorm? Do you have anything in mind? As I look around my office again, like I'm supposed to just.

[Emma]

I feel like that's what we do every single time.

[Christine]

I know it is a glance around.

[Emma]

I. Yeah, I'll figure something out.

[Christine]

Is there anything we have to tell the people? Yeah, like. Or like something about the holidays? I'M trying to think what we got for Christmas. I don't know. Oh, sure, we could do that. Yeah, I built a trampoline. We could talk about that.

[Emma]

I would love to hear what you got, Leona, for sure.

[Christine]

Okay. Okay. Yeah, let's do that. Let's do a Leona Christmas update. And Emma and Christine.

[Emma]

Okay.

[Christine]

Christmas update. Okay. See you in a minute. This sponsor makes me feel the most like we're living in the matrix because this is like one that Em and I actually used and talked about before we ever even had a podcast.

[Emma]

Yeah. Zocdoc has always been such a big help, especially now that it is January, I'm in the middle of medical month, and I have used Zoc Doc more than I probably will all year, but it has been such a godsend. It is a free app and website that helps you find and book high quality in network doctors so you can find someone that you love.

[Christine]

Yeah. We're talking about booking in network appointments with more than 150,000 providers across all 50 states. I use this when I lived in LA. I've used it when I live here in Kentucky. Whether you're looking for dermatology, dentistry, primary care, eye care, or one of the other 200 plus specialties, M& I probably need to see. You can easily search by specialty or symptom to build the care team that's right for you. And a lot of times they have appointments available like that day, the next day. It's really cool. So it works fast and it's, you know, phone free. Yep.

[Emma]

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[Christine]

Drink thanks zocdoc for sponsoring this message. When I found out I had ocd, everything kind of clicked into place. And I was very fortunate that the person who diagnosed me actually had extensive history background working with ocd, so she was able to see it and really kind of guide me. But a lot of people, most people, I would argue, and now I don't really have that resource. They don't have that kind of access to somebody who necessarily knows how to treat it properly. It's a very misunderstood condition and that's why we are so happy that no CD is a sponsor of our podcast.

[Emma]

Yeah. Not every therapist understands OCD or is qualified to treat it effectively, which can make it difficult to find the right help. But OCD is highly treatable. With a specialized type of therapy called ERP, or Exposure and response prevention. And with no cd, you can do live virtual ERP therapy with licensed therapists who specialize in OCD and nocd. Therapists are highly trained, so they really understand OCD and won't judge you no matter what your thoughts are about.

[Christine]

Better yet, no CD therapy is covered by insurance. For over 155 million Americans, that is huge. In between sessions, you can use the NOCD app like I do to message your therapist. Access expert developed therapy tools. There's a community there of people who are either learning more about ocd, sharing what they're going through, and that's a really cool resource as well.

[Emma]

If you think you or someone you might know might be struggling with OCD, please don't wait to get help. Go to nocd.com and book a free call with our team to learn more. That's n o c d.com to Schedule A free call and learn more. Yes. Okay, that was it. Great. We did.

[Christine]

We love it.

[Emma]

Christina, Deb do Christmas sick.

[Christine]

Yeah. Christine and M. Do Christmas time. Two weeks late. Okay, so today I have what turned into a two parter. I have the first part of a story that I'd not really heard of, at least extensively. And I'm shocked because it's the disappearance of three young girls in Fort Worth, Texas in 1974. So they're called the Fort Worth Trio, usually if you're trying to like google the case. And we just actually hit the 51 year anniversary right around Christmas time. So I thought, let's do it. The top sources I used, I just want to say here because they were other like either podcast or YouTubers and I, I feel like some of the information, the way they put it is worth giving credit to. So one was called Void the Warlock. One was called a creator called Stephanie Harlow. And then True Crime Garage podcast did a two parter on this. Okay, the girls in question here today, Rachel Trelisa, her last name is spelled T R L I C A. And okay, multiple creators have said it differently. The news, the local news clipping said Teresa. Like when I local news, like TV clip from the 70s. But also I, as someone who worked in journalism and studied it, know that people mispronounce things all the time on the news. So I don't know if that's like official. I've not heard anybody else say it. But I'm gonna say Trulisa because even though it looks wrong, that's what I heard.

[Emma]

I like hear like I know on the news. Sometimes they mess up our names. As you've been on the news and we've heard them call you Schiffer.

[Christine]

Oh, right. Like, okay, fair enough. I don't even need to be on the journalism side. I just need to be like existing to know that, to know that fact. That's very true. Yeah, it's really funny. Yeah. After they asked how to pronounce it, I'm like, okay, yeah.

[Emma]

You're like, I, I know that they've done this in the past to other people. You girl.

[Christine]

Yeah, I remember it like it was yesterday. Yeah, yeah. So we've got whom I'm calling Rachel Trelisa, Renee Wilson, her friend, who's 14. Rachel, by the way, sorry, Rachel is 17 years old. We've got 14 year old Renee Wilson, her friend, and then a nine year old girl named Julie Ann Moseley.

[Emma]

So 17, 14, nine.

[Christine]

Correct.

[Emma]

Okay.

[Christine]

And that definitely comes into play for like theories and stuff. So December 23, 1974, it's two days before Christmas and three girls, Rachel Trelisa, Julie Ann Mosley and Renee Wilson, went to do some last minute Christmas shopping at the Seminary south shopping center in Fort Worth, Texas. So 17 year old Rachel, she had recently moved in. Now this is something I'm going to try and explain right off the bat. She had recently moved in with her new husband, 22 year old Tommy Trelisa. And this is the part where I say, yeah, she's 17, she's still in high school, she's married, but like it's the 70s and also that happens. I don't know, I don't know what to tell you, but she was married and people get kind of bent out of shape about that online. But she was married to this 22 year old guy. Oddly enough, he was actually divorced already once and had a two year old. So he's like moving and we'll get to his whole story later.

[Emma]

It's a, it's a good life, not a long life.

[Christine]

We're going, yeah, right. He's just like getting, he's getting things done early. He's 22, he's divorced, he has a child. So in other words, Rachel moves in with her new husband, his name's Tommy. And she now has this husband and this stepson. And a lot of sources talk about Rachel's kind of troubled home life. And so some people argue like, you know, most of it was just she's dating this guy and she wants to get out of her own house, like for safety reasons, for just save herself and moves in with this new husband, Tommy. But we don't really know now. She actually lived with her sister Deborah. Deborah lived with them, I should say. And she had gotten out of a relationship and moved in with Rachel and Tommy after they got married. And she. Deborah, the sister, is 19 years old.

[Emma]

Okay.

[Christine]

So Rachel wants to go to the mall and buy some Christmas gifts because she had a gift already wrapped for her stepson in the car. But she realized she learned that day that the stepson, the little boy would be coming to their house for Christmas morning. And so she was like, oh shit, I only have like one gift for him if he's coming to our house. I want like, gotta make a magic. Yeah. And I'm like, she's, she's 17. I just think that's so like thoughtful. So, yeah, she decides she needs to buy some more gifts. So she asks her sister Deborah, who's living with him, 19 year old Deborah, if she wanted to go to the mall. And I guess they had all been up playing canasta the night before, of all things. And so she was like, I'm tired, I want to stay in bed. So she didn't go.

[Emma]

Okay.

[Christine]

She decides she's gonna call a couple people. Nobody wants to go to the mall, nobody's available. So she asks her good friend Renee, age 14, who was staying at her grandmother's house. Now Renee, her boyfriend, lived right across the street from her grandma's house. So that morning she's staying at her grandma's and she and her boyfriend are exchanging Christmas gifts because he lives across the street. He is with his nine year old sister and she's just kind of hanging around. Her name is Julie. And they're exchanging gifts and Terry gives Rachel a promise ring for Christmas. And she's so excited. She's just head over heels for this guy. They were going to a Christmas party together that evening and so she was really excited to show the ring off to friends and family. And then her friend Rachel called and said, do you want to go shopping? And Renee was like, I don't know, like we have this party later. But she finally agreed on the condition that they be back by 4pm to ensure she had plenty of time to get ready for the party. Renee asked Terry, her boyfriend, if he would like to come too. But he declined as he had made plans to go spend time with a friend who was sick. But Terry's nine year old sister, who was kind of hovering around, wanted to go and was like, I want to go to the mall and okay, I.

[Emma]

Like I was like, how did a 9 year old get involved?

[Christine]

I know that's where everybody asked immediately, like nine. It's debated. Like, nobody really knows what their thought process was, but the girls were like, okay, but you have to ask your mom for permission. And they like knew her mom would say no because her mom was really strict, you know. And so they kind of, some, most people assume that they were like kind of hoping that the mom would say no, but we don't have any like real proof of that. It's just like the idea of like two BFFs who are like married and have a boyfriend and then like the little sister wants to tag along. A kind of vibe, you know?

[Emma]

Sure.

[Christine]

So Julie's mom did initially say no because she was like, it's. She apparently said, you don't even have money. Like, what are you doing?

[Emma]

Wow, what a clock.

[Christine]

I know, yeah, way to remind me, Mom. But Julie begged to go. And finally her mom was like, okay, but you have to be home by 6pm and unfortunately, this decision, she says, has haunted her for the rest of her life. A little before noon, this kind of unlikely group of three girls went shopping together. They stopped first at the Army Navy surplus store to pick up some jeans that Renee had had on layaway. And then they continued on to the Seminary south shopping Center. That afternoon, 4pm came and went and the girls did not return home. As 4pm got closer to 5pm the girl's parents grew increasingly worried. And by 5:30 they headed to the mall in search of their daughters. Rachel's brother Rusty remembers going with his mom as a little kid. I think he was like 4 or 5. And I know it's, it's. He's been very eaten up by this case for a number of reasons that we'll get to, but. So he remembers going to every single store in the mall and asking after his sister and her friends and talking to anybody and everybody paging them over the intercom like they were looking frantically right away.

[Emma]

So sad.

[Christine]

It is. And they get to the upper level of the mall and they find Rachel's 72 Oldsmobile parked in, in the parking lot, top floor at the Sears.

[Emma]

Weirdly, that would immediately make me, that would be a, a bigger gut punch than 100 relief. I'd be like, where the are you now?

[Christine]

Yeah. Because there is no sign of the girls anywhere in or around the car. It's like eerie. The car is parked, it's, it's now considered the employee parking lot. But at the time it was just The Sears parking lot. It was the top floor of the garage. There was no sign of the girls anywhere nearby. Seemingly untouched. There was no, like, blood or anything alarming at the scene. This is where I had to do a little more digging because a lot of misinformation has been spread about this in the car. A lot of times people report that the items. They found items in the car that had been purchased at the mall, like, indicating that the girls went back to the car and then disappeared. But that's not the case because they actually found the jeans from the Navy army surplus store and they found the wrapped gift for the stepson that Rachel had already had, like, in the car. So that was not anything new. So we basically. That debunks the idea that they went back to the car and then something happened to them. But most sources say that their shopping bags and stuff were in the car, but it was not. They were not.

[Emma]

Okay.

[Christine]

Most importantly, like I said, no sign of the girls. I will say just one minor detail, or I don't know how minor it is, but when Renee picked up those two pairs of jeans at the army surplus store, she had actually changed out of one pair and into the new pair. And so when they found her two pairs of jeans in the car, it was her new pair, one of the new pairs, and her old pair that they found in the car.

[Emma]

Sorry, can you say that again?

[Christine]

Yeah, sorry. It's really confusing. It's not even that confusing. It just sounds confusing. So they had gone to the surplus store, bought two pairs of jeans for Renee, and then she changed into one of them.

[Emma]

Oh.

[Christine]

So they found her new pair, one of her new pairs in her old pair in the car.

[Emma]

Okay.

[Christine]

And some people find that really weird on, like, Reddit and other forums.

[Emma]

I don't.

[Christine]

I don't either at all. Like, people were like, why would you change into jeans? And I'm like, because you're a young girl.

[Emma]

And she liked how they looked.

[Christine]

Yeah. I just thought it was so strange how people got like, up in arms over that.

[Emma]

Back in the era when they're like, brightly colored denim was a thing. The second I found my purple jeans, I wasn't waiting until I got home to put those.

[Christine]

Are you kidding me? Your. Your hands are going to be purple from all the dye and they were not going to wash them. And they were. They still are to this day.

[Emma]

Don't look at them.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah. They're probably radioactive. Yeah. No, but so can you see why this became a two parter? Because every, like, detail I Would get kind of in the weeds on. Because people are kind of making these claims online. And I'm like, that doesn't. I feel like him. For me, that's only men.

[Emma]

I feel like, are making that statement.

[Christine]

A lot of people were. They were saying, like, well, why didn't she just wait to change into them at home before the party later? And it's like, because she's at the mall. That's a social gathering. Like a place where you want to wear your cute new jeans if it's not just men.

[Emma]

Because I feel like it's like a very, like, girlhood experience to do that. But what. So then I have to wonder, like, are you not of an era where the mall was relevant?

[Christine]

What I think is happening is I think people just aren't even thinking through, like, what it would be. The fact that it's like, a teenage girl. Like, I think people are just like, why would you do that? That's weird. Where were her genes?

[Emma]

Just immediate victim blaming, I guess.

[Christine]

Yeah. Or not even victim blaming, but more just like, oh, this is. This has to be, like, a huge clue. And it's like, not really. I don't think. I mean, I don't think it, like, raises any red flags more than any other part of this case, but people talk about it all the time, so I just wanted to throw it out there as, like, got it as, like, something that's worth noting because people discuss it a lot, but. And it could be a clue if we had any other clues to go on. But, like, alone, I don't see how it really changes the story, you know?

[Emma]

No, I think that's just the teenage girl experience.

[Christine]

Yeah. I would agree. I would agree. And maybe not every teenage girl, but certainly I had zero chill at that age.

[Emma]

Certainly enough. Yeah. Still do.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Okay. So they found the wrapped gift for the stepson, they found the jeans, and then nothing else. They had Rachel's husband, Tommy, come look at the car because it was his car. And he said he didn't see anything out of the ordinary or odd except the fact that his parents will. They had actually recently both died. His parents, Will. And three 50 bonds appeared to be missing out of the glove box. But he wasn't sure if he had taken them out himself.

[Emma]

What?

[Christine]

Like kind of a useless clue, I guess. But, you know, if somebody stole it, he claimed, like, oh, there was. There were three 50 bonds in there, and my parents will. And now they're missing. But he couldn't be sure that he didn't take them out. And misplace them.

[Emma]

So I guess I'm gonna give some grace to that because there have been times where I was like, there was a pretty big check I needed to cash. I can't remember if I cashed it.

[Christine]

Yeah. And I get it. I mean, and especially if someone says like, would you swear on that? And it's like, well, not really. Like maybe I did mistakenly throw it away or something. Yeah. So I don't blame him either. And he's 22 and this is a very traumatic incident. So, you know, but other than that, he was like, I don't recognize anything out of the ordinary. Which is also just a little creepy to me. So the family stayed till the mall closed at 11pm the lights went out, no sign of the girls. After which the girls dads got shotguns and staked out the parking lot to see if anyone things suspicious would happen at the car.

[Emma]

I totally get it. I understand. Like, I didn't mean to laugh at like, it's just like that's the most dad reaction.

[Christine]

It is, it is. It's like step aside. Yeah. And I will say they had already. Well, A, we're in Texas, so also not surprising. And B, they had already told the police. So it's not like they're doing this vigilant. I mean they are doing this kind of vigilante, but they're not doing this like, you know, because the, because the police, they don't want to tell the police. They've already told the police. The police are doing their own investigating or what or lack thereof. We'll get to that. But you can just basically tell from the way they, the family handled this that they knew something was wrong like immediately. They didn't think like, oh, they probably went off to the party and just forgot to tell us like they were at the mall from 5:30 till and morning.

[Emma]

Right, Right. And to know both of them or at least two of the three had curfews that they needed to get to. Like.

[Christine]

Oh yeah. One of them was nine so like had to be home by six. One of them was like 4:30 because of the party.

[Emma]

Right.

[Christine]

Yeah, I wanted to get home for the party that she was so excited about and she almost didn't even go on the shopping trip because she wanted to go to the party. And then the older girl who had just invited them along. So yeah, it doesn't quite track. Especially when the mall closes at 11 and they're not anywhere to be found. But the second the mall is closed.

[Emma]

And they're still there I, I, you have to assume the worst because, yeah.

[Christine]

They described like the lights going off at each store and like, I mean, the dread building, you know, that's.

[Emma]

And what year is this?

[Christine]

74.

[Emma]

74.

[Christine]

Okay, so they are staking out the parking lot. Clearly they all know something is up. Like all three of the families know something is going on. Police have been accused, as I sort of hinted at, of botching the case. Early on they didn't seem particularly concerned. They assumed the girls were runaways and sort of told the family, like, oh, they'll be back. They're, they just, you know, went to blow off some steam like teenagers do, which, you know, we've heard this time and time again and again. It's the 70s. But then you think pretty immediately that's debunked because like this was a, an impromptu trip. It's not like the girls had planned this weeks in advance. Two of them didn't even know each other. The 9 year old and the 17 year old. Like, why would they take a 9 year old to run away? Why wouldn't they take the new car and the new jeans or not the new car, the car and the new jeans with them? Like, it doesn't make any sense.

[Emma]

Well, also, if there's a 17 year old who is somehow mature enough and emotionally intelligent enough to like, want to be a good stepmom and like, yes.

[Christine]

Show up for her step kid, like.

[Emma]

You'Re gonna be like, I need to get home because I gotta wrap these presents.

[Christine]

Like, I gotta, like, she's literally going to them all the day before Christmas Eve. Like, which is a nightmare, you know, I mean, maybe not.

[Emma]

Versus like a week before. And this is your last day of spring break and you just fell into one last hoorah. This is like everyone expects everyone in the country to be home tomorrow.

[Christine]

Yes. And she's already acting on it, like getting more presents. Like, I mean, it's bizarre. And like she has the other president wrapped in the car. It's just so weird. And so the police are kind of like, ah, it's, they're probably just runaways. And clearly the family was like, step aside. We've got shotguns, we're gonna watch the car. But all the way through the night and into the morning, nobody went anywhere near the car. It just sat there. So, so sinister, so creepy. Christmas Eve. So we're talking the day after the, the dad stay through the night. Nothing happens. Tommy reaches out to the other families and says, there was a letter in my mailbox this morning.

[Emma]

Oh, no.

[Christine]

Yes. This is one of the creepiest parts of the case. It is a letter. I'm going to send you a picture of it, of course. Or at least a scan. A picture of a scan of it. You know, it's not the best quality, but I tried to find the least blurry example I could find.

[Emma]

Okay, this just came in. Okay.

[Christine]

So the envelope is up top and you can see that it's addressed to Thomas A. Trelisa.

[Emma]

It just says the From Rachel.

[Christine]

And then at the top, just Rachel. And oddly, the envelope was written in pencil, but the letter was written in ballpoint pen. The paper that the letter was written on was the wrong size for an envelope. So it was almost like a kitchen notepad. It had been written on it like a kitchen notepad style and then like put into a different size envelope.

[Emma]

Yeah, you can see the fold line.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

You can see like they're scanned.

[Christine]

The.

[Emma]

The envelope is literally smaller than like.

[Christine]

Yeah, you can totally see it. Exactly. So it was like a little bit odd. Now it gets even weirder because the 10 cent stamp up here, which you can see has been canceled. Like stamped out. It was stamped on or canceled on Christmas Eve. But the zip codes look blurred and the three is backwards on the stamp, which, like, I guess could happen. And True Crime Garage talked about this extensively. Like, could this happen at a post office that, like, their zip code number is backwards and nobody notices?

[Emma]

Could the stamp have malfunctioned when it was being made or something?

[Christine]

Yeah. Or. Yeah. Do they just have a, like a wrong stamp? But I think it's like one of those where you add the numbers in yourself. But, like, but if you do that then like, and you work at this post office, then like, presumably you're not changing the zip code. It's like, when would you notice that? It's just weird. I don't know. It's just another weird thing that doesn't quite make any sense or fit into any specific clue.

[Emma]

Oh, okay.

[Christine]

Yeah, it's just weird. But so the. Whatever the case. Oh. Some people also think maybe the 3 was actually an 8 that was altered to look like a 3, but they like crossed out the wrong half of it.

[Emma]

Dummies. Okay, maybe.

[Christine]

Yeah. So just odd. Like, people have argued different things. It's unclear if that was intentional or not. So with the two possible zip codes, the three and the eight, two different towns, but they're both east. Now, let me read you the letter actually first, before, actually. Do you want to read it or are you able to?

[Emma]

Okay, sorry. I Don't want to put such a up thing to be excited about. I'm sorry.

[Christine]

No, I want you to read it, but I don't want you to feel pressured to because it's sure in handwriting, but.

[Emma]

Oh, I. I'm. I'm no Gen Z. I can read cursive. Don't worry.

[Christine]

Oh, Phew.

[Emma]

All right. It says, I know I'm going to catch it, but we just had to get away. We've.

[Christine]

We're going to Houston.

[Emma]

Houston. Thank you. See you soon. In about a week. The car is in Sears upper lot. Love, Rachel.

[Christine]

Doesn't it feel creepy?

[Emma]

That feels way. It feels very curt. Very, very. A little too on. On, like to the point.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

Like, there's no feeling to it. There's no warmth to it. It's just like, here's a fact, here it is looking for me.

[Christine]

And now look at the Rachel down there. Because people have noticed that somebody went back over the E, an E, and made it into an L. And so some people argue, hey, maybe Renee wrote the letter, right? And was able to copy the handwriting of her friend and was used to writing Renee, and so did two E's. But I mean, this is all a stretch, right? Like, this is nothing we can really claim. But for what it's worth, the families were like, nope, Rachel did. This is not from Rachel. We do not think this. And of course, this caused even more alarm across the board because like, what the fuck? This doesn't make any sense. Again, we talked about why they wouldn't be running away in this scenario, like, with a nine year old with like, without the car, it would like.

[Emma]

And I'm.

[Christine]

The address being somewhere east instead of on the way to Houston where they said they're going.

[Emma]

I mean, with confidence.

[Christine]

I meant to mention. Sorry. The zip codes that are blurred. The two towns are both east and they're not in the direction of Houston. So even if it said that, it's not true or somebody is trying to trick them or who knows what. But the letter did not come from Houston.

[Emma]

So hate that. I also what my first thought, which like, and I'm not. Not like I can crack a case or anything. But the eerie part to me, if I were Thomas is like, this person knows my name and address.

[Christine]

Okay, so good point. Thank you for bringing that up. First of all, they were like, she calls him Tommy. She does not call him Thomas A Trelisa. Like, she would not address it. But, you know, maybe because it's the envelope she wrote, it's the etiquette the.

[Emma]

Etiquette of it all.

[Christine]

Yeah, but they were really alarmed by that. They were like, I don't. The family was like, I don't. Rachel's family said she wouldn't have written Thomas. She would have written Tommy. That's point A, point B. The other point to it, though, is that back in those days especially, you could just open. Like, you could look at someone's license, open the white pages, like, open a phone book and just see. Which, by the way, his name probably would have been written as Thomas A. Trelisa in the phone book. That's a great point. Another kind of creepy point that the family says she would never have written Thomas A. Trelisa on a letter to him. Like, she was a great point. And so, you know, it just kind of adds to the creep factor. But then also, it's like, this is a bad sign then. A really, really bad sign. Because then whoever did this clearly knows enough about her or to copy her handwriting or to force her to write this. Coerce her to write this. So some people think this is her handwriting. I will say handwriting experts have analyzed it, and they. It's inconclusive. Some people say it is a match. Some people say it's not. But Stephanie Harlow made a really good point of, like, then it must be close enough. If people are divided over whether it's her handwriting, it must be close enough to look a lot like her handwriting. So either somebody knew her well enough to copy her handwriting, or she was forced to do it and she did it. Like, funny to try and I wonder, clue or who knows if I were.

[Emma]

I hope this obviously, one, never happens, but two, if it does, I hope the person that would have done this isn't. Isn't listening right now. But if I were forced to write a letter so that it was in my handwriting, I would hope that I at least left some, like, odd nods so people could catch on. So, like, yeah, maybe she intentionally wrote Thomas knowing that people would be like, she wouldn't call me that. Like, so hopefully that was maybe like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because if I wrote to you and said like, Christina M. Instead of right, right, right, you'd be like, what the fuck's going on?

[Christine]

I'm gone of my own free will. And I love Zach Baggins. He's my favorite idol.

[Emma]

Couldn't imagine hiking being any better for the soul. Yeah.

[Christine]

Oh, my God, I love to. Let's go hiking soon. Yeah, that's what I'll know.

[Emma]

No. So I. Maybe she did write it, but she was intentionally trying to make it look.

[Christine]

Some people do argue that. Yep.

[Emma]

Colder. Yeah.

[Christine]

Or even funny. Like writing it with like her left hand. Or writing not maybe with her left hand, but like writing it in like a different form of cursive than she. Usually something, you know, might be off. And again, like the, the envelope being in pencil, the note being in pen. It's just a little strange. Some people think that the note had already been written and that somebody put it in an envelope that didn't fit the notepad it was written on and like, pretended it had been. I don't know. There are just a lot of weird theories as to, like, how this got in the mailbox. Some people argue, like, well, there's no way it could have come overnight. So maybe Rachel would have written it a few days earlier, which means she would have planned this whole thing. But then, like, she wouldn't have gone with a nine year old that she didn't even know was coming.

[Emma]

No, she'd have been like, that kid is ruining my.

[Christine]

Yeah, literally the one plan I've had for weeks and this little child's coming. Like, no, that just wouldn't happen. And also, like back then, especially, like, if you mail something from a town over, like, yeah, it can get there overnight. It's not that abnormal, you know. So essentially things are odd, the Rachel, like, you write your name so many times and it's kind of odd to like Ms. Spell, like miswrite the last letter of your name. Like, it's just an odd thing. And so of course, people kind of home in on that, the formality of the envelope. They didn't know if. If this letter had been sent before they left or last night, if somebody stamped it to look like it had been stamped, but then just put it in the mailbox because actually there were no other letters in the mailbox that day.

[Emma]

Well, it also because it says like, the car is in Sears upper lot. So you know, it had to. Technically, at least they want you to.

[Christine]

Think that it was written like, since last night.

[Emma]

Since last night, yeah.

[Christine]

Yeah, exactly. And that's just so creepy too, because it's like not only do they know her handwriting, but like. Or are forcing her to like, tell.

[Emma]

Oh God, we just had to get away. Why? What stressors were going exactly?

[Christine]

And like, they don't even know each other. Two of them. It's like, what in the world we.

[Emma]

And also, if I'm ever writing you and I'm saying I just had to get away with my friend and her little sister, I'm not getting Away. Now I'm babysitting a random kid. Yeah.

[Christine]

Yes. And it's so, it's so strange to me, but police were like, well, see, the letter says they ran, they just needed some time to blow off steam. It's like, that's a nine year old. And by the way, this nine year old wouldn't leave on Christmas. Like, this nine year old is waiting for Santa to deliver presents.

[Emma]

And I promise you, the 9 year old didn't need to get away. So like.

[Christine]

No, exactly.

[Emma]

So I'm pretty sure the nine year old is kicking and screaming in the car being like, why did the two of you need to get away? It's Christmas.

[Christine]

I'm gonna miss my presents. That's a great point. That ain't it. Like, there's no fucking way. And so it's just ridiculous. But also that makes it so sinister because now we know there's no way this letter is real, or at least we don't believe it is. So like, either somebody forced her to write it or somebody's trying to fool the families and the police, which is triple bad. I will say too, that, like, at this point, it's not like this was widely. This wasn't like reported yet. Right. Because it had just been one night. So it's not like some prankster in this. You know, it's like this clearly was somebody who knew what had happened the night before. Just really sinister and creepy. So on January 1st, which was just over a week later, there still hadn't been no sign of the girls. A man who knew Rachel, like as a friend, called Rachel's father and said, hey, I just wanted to let you know I just saw what happened. And I actually saw Rachel and the girl, her two friends, at the mall that day on December 23. And he says he talked to Rachel and he noticed that another person was with them. Oh, like kind of just part of their group. But we don't have any more details on this. There's nothing else reported about it. And it doesn't appear that police really followed up on it. So we don't know what it means. Like, was this person, like hovering over them? Was this person like just like creepily in the background?

[Emma]

Was he like hitting on one of them and kind of joined their squad?

[Christine]

Was it a man? Was it a woman? We don't even know. Was it another little girl? Like, we don't know. So it's just frustrating. Like, we don't even know.

[Emma]

Could have been someone from school. Yeah, right.

[Christine]

So we don't know much Besides notice another person was with them. Then January 3rd, in the Fort Worth Telegram, they quoted a detective saying, I wish we had just one clue, one clue to get us off that parking lot. They basically said they were stuck at the parking lot. It was like as if the girls just, poof, vanished. And even though a couple people at the mall had seen them and had. Had said they'd seen them, there were barely any details and nobody could say where to go next, like where to leave this top floor parking lot and. And where to go. So in early January, the family received a call from an alleged friend of the girls saying the girls would be arriving that evening on the Greyhound bus. Like the 10 o' clock greyhound. Oh, and all the families, like, rushed to the Greyhound station. They waited there and of course were devastated when the bus came. Girls were not there.

[Emma]

Oh, so it's just toying with them now.

[Christine]

Yes, so. Or so Thomas and someone else, I forget who, waited through several more hours to see if maybe they would somehow, by miracle chance, like, have gotten on a different bus. But they never came. And by the time the families got home, Renee's family found their house had been burglarized while they were out.

[Emma]

Oh, ew.

[Christine]

Is that the creepiest thing?

[Emma]

So they are absolutely just toying with the, with these families.

[Christine]

I mean, it's just a prankster who knew that this would get the family out of the house, knew where they lived, and said, not a prankster, I'm sorry, a full blown criminal, and then planned a robbery for when the like, out, like sociopath level, like, got the family out to the bus station knowing they would all go.

[Emma]

You're totally right.

[Christine]

So, but, yeah, so we don't know. But it could also be somebody who wanted to access Rachel's belongings. You know, we don't know. But I mean, you made the good.

[Emma]

Point earlier of the white pages. I mean, it. And this is all in the news. It could have been anyone who said, like, oh, well, now we know where they live and we know a way to get them out. Yeah.

[Christine]

Oh, yeah. We just look up Tom and say Trulisa or whatever and. But yeah, so they were able to find the family's house and burglarize it while they were out. And it's like, sick. I mean, it's sick either way if it's the person toying with them or if it's just a random.

[Emma]

I feel like it's the same people that are from the beginning. Yeah, because in the letter too, it says, see you in about a week. And I immediately read that and thought, they're stringing them along.

[Christine]

See you in about a week. Oh, ew.

[Emma]

I feel like they're not coming back in a week. That was just like to push. That's to deliver.

[Christine]

The burglary happened like a week later.

[Emma]

Oh, ew. Like the person who either wrote those or.

[Christine]

That's what I thought you were saying.

[Emma]

I was like, oh, wow, I'm accidentally a genius.

[Christine]

I know. Except now that I look at it, I'm like 12, 23. A week later is the 30th, so. Okay, never mind. It's like a week and a half. It said about a week.

[Emma]

About a week. But. But that feels like it was the way I read it from the second I read the first time. It was like, I feel like that's just stringing them along and they're never going to show up. So.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah.

[Emma]

I don't know. It just feels like a similar mind game.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah. But I'll be honest. A lot of people prank these families and so and strung them along, like, for fun.

[Emma]

That's so evil.

[Christine]

Like this one obviously was like, with criminal motive, but the like, as an example here, I'll find it. Actually, let me tell you about one more that was like, creepy. And then we'll get to the prank calls, because there were so many prank calls. But on January 7th, Julie's mother received a call. Julie was the nine year old. And she said hello a few times. She didn't really hear much. Then she heard a moan. And she heard a little girl's voice say, mama. And she swears she would be willing to swear on her life that it was her daughter. She said, I understand that someone could be stringing me along, but I know, I know that's my daughter.

[Emma]

You know your kid's voice. You know your kid's voice.

[Christine]

She asked who it was. She said, no answer. She said, is this Julie Julianne Mosley? And the girl said, yes. She said, where are you? And the girl said, I don't know, Mama. And then the phone hung up and she said she would swear her life on it. Then again, you know, you're. You're in this shock trauma. You're. You're hoping for something. So of course that can skew your perspective. We don't know that that was Julie. However, she is convinced and swears to this day that it's her daughter's voice. One call came in, a call to Renee's parents, and they claimed it was Renee. And when they traced the call, because now they knew all these pranks were coming in and all these potential not pranks were also coming in. So they traced the call and they found it was a 14 year old girl. Just prank calling for fun.

[Emma]

Evil.

[Christine]

I mean, what the way that I.

[Emma]

Quickly believed that woman, I believed the mom though. I was like, if you know your kid, fuck. Like I'm not gonna. But it was just a little girl the whole time.

[Christine]

No, no. So sorry.

[Emma]

I think.

[Christine]

No, no, you're good, you're good. So that was a call to Renee's family that they traced to a 14 year old girl. And this girl admitted to making several of the calls, but said she did not make the one to Julie's mother.

[Emma]

Okay.

[Christine]

So I just say that to say even though they caught one of the girls who was doing this quote unquote for fun, I guess they did not, she did not admit to doing the one to Julie's mom and said that was not her. So Julie, Julie's mom still swears that that was Julie. So it's possible, you know, that little.

[Emma]

14 year old girl. I hope, let's talk about karma. I hope she, I hope karma finds her, that's all.

[Christine]

Yeah, I, I, I'm like, there's one thing about being like a child, right, and making bad decisions. But like that is like, what's going on with you, my dear? Like something's up for you to be making decisions like this. Like Stephanie Harlow said, I want to look up where the hell this girl is now.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Like that's alarming behavior. But kids are kids are kids. I don't know. Okay. So Rachel's mother also learned. So a lot of this is kind of on the ground work that the families are doing because the police are sort of like they're just running away. That's all they'll be, they'll be back. So the parents are doing and of course they're the ones getting all these phone calls. Right. So they're like kind of being driven crazy and they're trying to pursue every lead and they're trying to figure out how to find these girls. At one point, Rachel's mother learns that an elderly woman may have witnessed the abduction. And I have. This was from Stephanie Harlow's video. A screen or a clipping of the the article from March 14, 1975. Fort with Texas. An elderly woman may have witnessed the abduction of three girls missing since December 23. Mrs. R.W. arnold, mother of Rachel Trelisa, 17, said she has learned three clerks at a store in Seminary south shopping center where her daughter and two friends are believed to have been, say an elderly woman discussed three girls with them. The woman said she saw a girl being forced into a pickup truck the day of the disappearances. Mrs. Arnold said the woman told the clerks there were two girls and a man inside, and a second man was forcing the third girl into the truck. If the woman would call us, we might be able to learn more about this thing, and we would promise to keep her name secret, Mrs. Arnold said. But they never were able to get a hold of this woman.

[Emma]

Dang.

[Christine]

So essentially, three employees just to give, like, a quick Cliff. Yeah. Cliff Notes. Three employees at the mall separately said that this elderly woman had come to them and said, hey, I saw this thing happening, and, I mean, I don't know why. Nobody did anything, did anything, but whatever. And they said, oh, yeah, she came to tell us about this, about seeing these girls being forced into a pickup truck. It was a yellow truck with lights on top of it, so it could be, like, mall security or, you know, something of that nature. And that was all they could find. They. They begged for this woman to come forward. They could keep her anonymous, but they never, never heard from her beyond what the employees at the mall said. So another just really frustrating. Dead end of a lead. At one point, the family worked with a private investigator named John Swaim. And he was kind of notorious in town for being. For making really wild and bold, like, claims about cases and things like that. He liked to stir the pot and stir up drama. He would get on these, like, press conferences and, like, you know, say, like, the police, blah, blah, blah, are doing, like, just to kind of stir the pot. Sure, he pursued several false leads that ended up kind of creating some turmoil. But he was doing a lot of interviews, and he was talking to a lot of people. He unfortunately died of a drug and alcohol overdose in 1979, and it was ruled as a suicide. And when Rachel's mom went to pick up some photos that she'd loaned him for the investigation, she found out that his last request was to have all his files burned upon his death.

[Emma]

Oh, shady.

[Christine]

And so they burned everything had been burned. Three years of his work, three years of interviews. All the photos and paperwork that the family had loaned him. Everything was burned. Um, but not only that case, right? It was all his cases. So it's sort of like it could have been a different case, but this was the one that he was, you know, one of the ones he was actively working on when he died.

[Emma]

Gotcha. I thought for a second you meant just theirs. And I was like, hello, that's so bad.

[Christine]

And it, like, it could be from that case, but we. We just have no idea. And so that was just another really frustrating part of this. So that is the end of part one. I'm gonna give you a little hint here. Part two, a teaser. I'm gonna tell Tommy Trelisa and his marriage to Rachel some possible culprits that have been mentioned over the years and why Rachel's brother Rusty has grown up and now believes that their older sister Deborah might have had something to do with it.

[Emma]

Wow. Thank you for the little teaser trailer.

[Christine]

What the hell was that done? I don't know. I just wrote down a bulleted list of what I needed to cover next week and I was like, like, it's.

[Emma]

So we hold you accountable. Next week we can go.

[Christine]

I know somebody has to. Somebody has to. But yeah, no, it's just so crazy. Like I'm on page. I don't know. I'm like way far in and I still have so much to discuss, so this is awesome.

[Emma]

Look, I love a two parter. You can keep that up if you want.

[Christine]

Yeah, it's a good time when I get invested, you know, really invested. Well, thank you everybody for listening. We appreciate you and happy new year. Even though, you know, let's just all hold out until the. The actual horse comes around in February, whenever that is. And hopefully, hopefully we can, I don't know, survive till then, I guess.

[Emma]

Sure. Sure. Yeah. Well, good luck everybody in 2026. And that's why we drink Havlas Espanol, Sprite Come de nosq.

[Christine]

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