E473 Phantom Punchlines and a Top Hat Tater

Summary

Podcast Summary: And That's Why We Drink

Episode 473: Phantom Punchlines and a Top Hat Tater

Release Date: March 8, 2026
Hosts: Christine Schiefer & Em Schulz

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Christine and Em dive into both the odd and the ominous: first, they banter about their week, discuss everything from astrology-fueled unease to snack flavors, and then segue into this week’s paranormal story—the Dag Poltergeist (or Dag’s Demon) of 1899 Canada, a chaotic and bizarre haunting that straddles the line between the ridiculous and the terrifying. Afterward, Em brings a recent true crime: the ongoing case of the disappearance (and presumed murder) of Matthew Johnson in Utah, an investigation full of family drama, shocking confessions, and unresolved tragedy.

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1. Banter & Weekly Catch-Up

What is the Show About? (01:11–03:06)

• Em jokes that the podcast is about "bad stuff," a vague but accurate description.
• Christine's default is “spooky, creepy things,” avoiding too much detail.
• “True crime’s pretty popular and pretty bad. If I heard bad stuff, I would assume true crime.”—Christine (02:03)

Personal Updates & Dog Talk (03:06–06:37)

• Christine shares that Allison is back, changing the home dynamics with their dog Hank.
• Em talks about how animals change their loyalties and growing pains in blended households.

Astrology, Vibes, & the Winds of Change (06:37–09:38)

• Em describes a weird, windy, uneasy week, referencing major astrological shifts.
• “It’s supposed to be the biggest week of our lifetimes, astrologically. So I’m like, on edge.”—Em (06:51)
• Christine enjoys the LA rain and the coziness of staying in.

Drinks of the Week Segment (10:27–16:49)

• Christine reviews "Moon Punch" Capri Sun, with glow-in-the-dark packaging and moon phase collectibles.
• Em (attempting psychic powers) tries to predict Christine’s moon card.
• Em’s missing her honeydew milk tea, sparking a fruit preferences debate.
• “Honeydew gets a lot of slander.”—Christine (14:02)

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2. Paranormal Segment: The Dag Poltergeist (Canada, 1899)

[Story Begins at 17:00]

Case Introduction & Background (20:25–22:07)

• Year: 1899, Ottawa Valley, Canada
• The Dag family: George (father), Susan (mother), three kids (Mary, Johnny, Dinah). Dinah is an adopted orphan with the unfortunate middle name “Burden.”
• They also fostered/worked with other orphans as farmhands.

First Incidents: Money & Smeared Butter (22:07–25:25)

• Strange event with money going missing, reappearing in odd places—first blamed on a farmhand.
• More oddities: butter and milk buckets “empty themselves”; soon, literal feces smears appear around the house.
• Attempt to resolve by bringing a suspected child to court, but new strange events occur while he's gone, proving innocence.

Memorable Moment:
“But after this incident, many more odd things start happening... jars of butter and milk buckets start emptying themselves.”—Christine (24:13)

Escalation: Exploding Windows & Fires (26:16–29:24)

• Windows begin exploding one by one with no visible cause.
• "He’s watching these windows just pop, pop, pop, explode. And there’s no one around."—Christine (27:08)
• Fires break out across the property, often simultaneously and in impossible locations.

Physical Attacks and Supernatural Sightings (29:25–35:28)

• Family members are splashed, struck by objects, or have their hair unnaturally cut.
• Dinah, main target, is given a bullwhip by her no-nonsense grandmother and is ordered to “beat” the invisible entity. “Dinah started wailing on this thing... The rest of the family came up. Neighbors from outside came in—what the is going on in this house?”—Christine (32:08)
• Entity is seen in various forms: a tall, thin man with a cow’s head, a large black dog, and eventually “a beautiful man... with long white hair... a crown with stars in it.”

The Haunting Becomes Public (35:29–41:29)

• The spirit speaks in a gravelly male voice, asks children if they want to "come to hell," and swears so much local newspapers can only call it “barnyard language.”
• Tales of floating objects, harmonica music, and chaos abound. A local boy is famously hit in the head by “a hat with a potato in it,” earning the entity the nickname “Top Hat Tater.”

Notable Quote:
“You gave me 15 cuts,” reads an anonymous note left for Dinah after the bullwhip incident. (33:28)

Everyone’s a Witness / The Witch of Plum Hollow (41:30–44:48)

• Locals and journalists (notably Percy Woodcock) flock to investigate; the entity interacts with all.
• George consults “The Witch of Plum Hollow,” who blames a town widow—Mrs. Wallace—with no evidence.

Showdown with Percy Woodcock (45:07–52:50)

• Journalist Percy interviews the entity in a shed; is threatened with death if its name is revealed.
• Percy tries to debunk by a water-in-mouth ventriloquism test (doesn't work).
• Entity agrees to leave—but demands a crowd for a dramatic goodbye.
• Odd switch from demonic voice to “angelic,” claims to now be an angel who’s ousted the demon.
• Mocks a reverend—“Go back to photography!”—eliciting laughter from the hosts.

Notable Quote:
“This thing started then singing religious songs and talking to everyone in a very kind way, and apparently, his singing was so beautiful it made the townspeople cry.”—Christine (53:06)

Closure—Or Not (54:18–59:05)

• The haunting ends with an “angelic” entity floating away as fire strikes the sky.
• Dinah is ultimately packed off to another orphanage. The spirit never returns.
• Final twist: Dinah vanishes without a trace after being picked up by a stranger claiming to come from the Dag family.
• The house stands to this day, with modern haunting tales from 1980s-’90s residents.

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3. True Crime Segment: The Disappearance of Matthew Johnson

[Crime Story Begins at 62:37]

The Victims & Setting (63:03–65:16)

• Suburban Utah, 2024. Matthew Johnson (51, Green Beret) and wife Jennifer (42) with three young children.
• “He was described as a really fun guy. ... Jennifer was described by Matthew’s friends as ‘nice.’”—Em (65:03)

Domestic Turmoil & Protection Order (65:37–68:03)

• Marriage on the rocks; Jennifer tries (and fails) to secure a protection order, the judge finding both parties liable for escalation.

Prelude to Murder (68:04–70:15)

• Jennifer becomes more aggressive post-protection-order denial.
• September 19, 2024: Jennifer shows her Glock to her lover.
• The next day, neighbors hear a violent argument. In the early hours of September 21, Jennifer shoots Matthew as he sleeps, hides his body, and attempts a hasty cover-up (bleach, mattress replacement).

The Confession & Evidence (71:44–78:02)

• Jennifer confesses to her boyfriend, who is horrified, records evidence, and promptly goes to the police.
• Tells him: “If you think I could even hurt a fly... he wasn’t a person anymore.” (73:14)
• She makes flippant remarks about killing and displays no remorse.

Investigation & Arrests (77:03–80:27)

• Search reveals blood stains under carpet, in slats, bleach smell, new mattress brought in by her parents.
• GPS traces Jennifer dumping car and body. Body has not been found; Jennifer pleads not guilty.
• Both Jennifer and her parents are arrested; parents charged with obstruction after actively helping with cleanup.

Trial & Aftermath (80:27–84:01)

• Jennifer’s phone wiped, parents lie about being at the house; damning statements are presented at trial.
• No body found; Jennifer held without bail (“I’d shoot myself before going to jail”). Three children left parentless.
• Latest update: trial began two months ago, ongoing developments expected.

Notable Quote:
“…it’s just crazy… the husband, Matthew, had a $500,000 life insurance policy and she was the beneficiary, but because they can’t find her body, what do they do?”—Em (82:30)

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4. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On animal loyalty and hurt feelings:
  “Your animals will hurt your feelings, and they will not have any regard.” — Em (05:21)

• On the supernatural’s sense of drama:
  “He will stop bothering the family, but he’ll stop bothering them tomorrow. And when they asked why not today, right now, the spirit said, first he needs a crowd to say goodbye.” — Christine (50:49)

• On the chaotic haunting:
  “If all of a sudden there’s six fires in different parts of your house, like, where do you even go first? I would cry.”—Christine (29:03)

• On crime confessions:
  "If you think I could even hurt a fly... He wasn’t a person anymore. He wasn’t. Matt.” — Jennifer (recording, cited by Em, 73:14)

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5. Timestamps for Key Segments

• Banter, Astrology, Drinks: 01:11–17:00
• Dag Poltergeist Story Begins: 17:00
• Case Escalation (Fires, Windows): 26:16–29:24
• Bullwhip Incident: 30:48–32:41
• The Potato in a Hat Incident: 37:40–38:06
• Witch of Plum Hollow & Mrs. Wallace: 41:30–44:48
• Percy Woodcock Investigates: 45:07–52:50
• Spirit “Goodbye”/Haunting Ends: 50:49–54:54
• True Crime Segment Begins: 62:37
• Murder, Cover-up, and Confession: 68:04–77:03
• Family Involvement & Arrests: 78:02–80:27
• Trial & Updates: 80:27–84:01

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6. Final Thoughts

This episode deftly balances moments of absurd paranormal folklore (the Dag Poltergeist’s barnyard chaos, the infamous top hat tater) with contemporary tragedy (the Johnson case), reflecting the pod’s unique blend of dark humor, empathy, and storytelling. Christine’s storytelling tends toward theatrical absurdity, while Em’s true crime case is unsettlingly recent and unresolved—making for a gripping listen.

Signature sign-off:
"Have fun, everybody... And that's why we drink." (85:35)

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This summary skips over ads and non-content, focusing solely on the stories and the personality-rich conversations between Christine and Em.

Transcript

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[Em]

Hello, it's me and it's M2. Welcome to and that's why we drink. It's a podcast where we talk about. Somebody asked me, what's your podcast about? And I went, bad stuff. I just was like, so tired. I went bad stuff. And then I was like, that doesn't make sense. But anyway, they kind of got it. They were like, oh, like crime. And I was like, oh, actually, yeah.

[Christine]

You know, sometimes people ask me what the podcast is about and I usually just say spooky, creepy things and then I just leave it to them because sometimes I've really gotten into like, telling them the details of it. And halfway through they're like, oh, that's not really my thing.

[Em]

And I go, okay, I'm just going to stop it.

[Christine]

I leave it kind of vague and I'm like, if you want to listen to it, go for it.

[Em]

But oh, man.

[Christine]

Bad stuff is an interesting way to put it too. I'll try that next time and see what response.

[Em]

It kind of worked. They kind of like figured it out right away.

[Christine]

I think that makes sense to me. True crime's pretty popular and pretty bad. If I heard bad stuff, I would assume true crime. So actually, yeah, good. Good description.

[Em]

Hey. Yeah, thanks. It was just a result of exhaustion, but anyway, thanks so much. How are you doing?

[Christine]

I'm fine. I. Allison's back, which is nice.

[Em]

Wow. Took a while coming back in August.

[Christine]

Yeah. Remember that?

[Em]

That was fun.

[Christine]

Yeah. It ended up being like a full pregnancy. Wow.

[Em]

Not a real one, guys.

[Christine]

She could have come back with a baby, though. I'd have questions, but the timeline would add up.

[Em]

It would add up. It's like when you would send people away to have a baby, you know, like.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Summering in a different part of the country.

[Christine]

Maybe that's what we were doing. I don't know. No, she. It's very interesting having her back.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

We're.

[Christine]

We're going through some growing pains currently just because I got very used to.

[Em]

Well, yeah, now you have two people. You have double the people all of a sudden.

[Christine]

Yeah. And last time she was here, there wasn't the dynamic of me and Hank getting each other and, like, having our own relationship. Because when she left us, I hated that dog. And now it's a whole new thing of, like, having to be home in time for the dog park all the time. And I don't know, it's those silly things. We'll be fine. We'll find like a week. But it's. She just got here like this week, so we're relearning each other.

[Em]

Was Hank excited to see Al?

[Christine]

Yeah, I worried that he wouldn't recognize her, but they seem to be getting along just fine.

[Em]

So I was just bringing this up and Blaze goes, you bring this up all the time. And I go, I never bring it up. And so I'm gonna bring it up again right now, which is that when I first got Geo, Blaze was there with me and he stayed for a week and then left to go back to grad school on the east coast. And I stayed in LA with this dog and a new minimum wage, 12 hour a day job, and it was just a nightmare. But then he left for a couple of weeks and came back again the following month. And I took Gio with me to pick him up at lax. And Gio was still like a little puppy. And Blaze got in the car and Gio freaked off out. He was like. I don't know, he was like barking and like. Yeah. He was like, who is that? And I was like, that's your dad. And he was like, I don't know that man. I've never met that man in my life. Like, oh. So they had to kind of like become friends again and like, bla would like play with him and now it's ridiculous because, like, who feeds him? Who takes him out every single day? Who, like, takes him to the vet and the groomer and. Yeah. So, um, you know, things flip like that, don't they?

[Christine]

Yeah, I. I'm kind of. I have to keep reminding myself to not feel jealousy because all. Which is funny, because if you told me when. When she first left me and Hank to our own devices, I. I would have been like, please come back as soon as possible. But now I'm like, don't sit my best friend, you know? And he's giving her all the attention right now because she's the shiny new thing. So I have to remind myself, like, they need to bond. Let it happen. But he used to sit with me on the couch every night, and now, like, he just goes and snuggles with her and then stays in there, like, all eight hours. I'm like, can you recognize me at all?

[Em]

Oh, you got to get used to that. Your animals will hurt your feelings, and they will not have any regard.

[Christine]

It hurt. It does hurt. Thank you for the validation. So, no, I'm very happy she's back. It is. It's a good time. Yeah. I don't have to FaceTime her all the time to talk to her anymore. It's very wonderful.

[Em]

You can FaceTime in person.

[Christine]

I. You're right. You're exactly right. What about you? How is your week going?

[Em]

It's good. Thank you for asking. No, it's fine. I just, you know, it's really, really windy here, and when it gets really windy, I just get in this, like, particular mood. Like, I feel like I'm at, like, one of those cows, you know, that, like, lays down when there's a tornad tornado coming. And so when the wind picks up and it gets a little, like, spooky weather, and it's, like, warmer here now, so it's very springy. And, like, thunders. There was thunderstorms last night. I get into this, like, particular mood, and I think you can appreciate it, too, of, like, ooh, like, the. There's, like, wind howling and lightning. I just. I'm just in a mood, and I'm like, something's happening. I've been following a lot of astrology, and shit is going down.

[Christine]

What does it mean, astrology, wise?

[Em]

Astrologically, we have, like, seven calendars, like Mayan, Judeo, Christian, all these different kind of calendars that are converging. I think it's like six or seven of them, which was on Tuesday, and this new moon. And then we have the Chinese New year, the lunar new year, and it's just this really wild kind of. A lot of the stuff that's happening astrologically has not happened in, like, hundreds of years or ever, you know, and so it's supposed to be the biggest week of our Lifespan of our lifetimes, astrologically. So I'm, like, on edge. And then I keep hearing, like, wind howling, and it'll come out later, so I'm not gonna feel weird saying it, but Blaze is leaving town this weekend, and I'm home alone all weekend, and my brother's leaving town. I was gonna make him hang out with me, but now I'm, like, home alone. And I don't know, I just feel a little bit, like, on edge. I don't know if it's, like, the howling wind and, like, a window blew open earlier, and I just feel very, like. Like. Which. Like something's coming, you know? I don't know.

[Christine]

Yeah. And no one's here to protect you when the forces enter your home at night. Yeah.

[Em]

Well, I'm like. We, like, set up our new security system recently. I don't know. I'm just kind of, like, on edge about stuff. I just feel like this kind of not. Not a dread or anything, but just, like, the other shoe's gonna drop. And I don't know what that means. Like, I don't know if that means, like, on a global scale or, like, in my personal life, I'm not sure. But I just feel like we're kind of on the brink of something interesting, man.

[Christine]

Right When Allison gets back into town, maybe she's the. The Omen.

[Em]

Her arrival in Burbank, maybe, like a.

[Christine]

That's the real witch in her, is that the whole nation's being warned that she's back.

[Em]

Blew across on her broomstick, landed in your lovely little yard.

[Christine]

You know, it's been kind of windy here, but it's been mainly, like. It's February. And so if you don't live in la, February is our rainy month, and we've had insane, torrential downpour storms all week, and it's been delicious.

[Em]

Dreamy.

[Christine]

And it was the. The week that Allison came back, and I was like, oh, now we just get to hang out inside. And it's all rainy, but. So I know that side of it where I feel, like, cozy but, like, I don't know about, like, something's. Something's coming. Brewing. Something's brewing.

[Em]

Yeah, I just feel it.

[Christine]

Okay. Good to know. I'm glad you warned me.

[Em]

If anyone else feels it, we're recording this February 20th, which today is also, I think, today. Saturn. Wait. Okay. Doesn't matter. But essentially, today is also like, a very, very, very tremendously huge day in astrology. So the energy is funky.

[Christine]

Interesting. Okay. Wow. I'm really glad you warned me. You can't warn anybody else because they know what's going to happen.

[Em]

Happen. Sorry, guys. You should have started a podcast with me, and I could have warned you,

[Christine]

but this is one of those things where you have the nerve to say that you think I have abilities when, like, you also just.

[Em]

I mean, I just feel, like, sense stirring, but then I sound just manic, right? Like, oh, something's coming. And I'm so, like, I sound, like, unhinged. So I do hear myself. And I realize it sounds, like, kooky when I just say, like, the stars are aligning, you know? But I've just been kind of. Especially with just all the shit going down around the world anyway.

[Christine]

Mm.

[Em]

It's like every day I'm like, what's happening now? What's the next thing? I mean, it can't be like this forever. Sure can happen, you know?

[Christine]

Well, to. Maybe to. I don't know how. How to segue into this, although it's a very seamless segue, so I'm just gonna say the thing, and hopefully you find the connections here.

[Em]

Always a good segue when you explain it beforehand.

[Christine]

I know, I know. Just wait till I explain my jokes later. Then that'll really get you. Would you like to ask me what I'm drinking?

[Em]

I would love to.

[Christine]

So I don't know if you've noticed, but Capri sun has come out with moon Punch.

[Em]

You know, I haven't, which is kind of surprising because I was in the market for some recently.

[Christine]

It's. It comes with, I guess, like, a card inside, and each one is a different moon phase. And so if you collect. You got to collect all eight moon phases.

[Em]

Oh, it's not inside the pouch. It's inside the box of it.

[Christine]

Sorry, Inside the box. Every time you get a box of.

[Em]

How do you, like, hygienically deal with this? Okay. Wow. That's cool. I've never seen that before.

[Christine]

And indoctrination at its finest. They want you to. They give you, like, if you have a flashlight, they want you to charge your Capri sun as if, like, it's under the moon. Charging under the moon, my. And then the pouch glows in the dark, so you know how I feel about that. Then it teaches you about the stars in the lunar eclipse. Hey.

[Em]

All right.

[Christine]

And on the back, it teaches you all the phases of the moon, man. So I wanted to see, since you've got your little psychic abilities here, of all of the moon phases, which moon card do you think is in here? And I'll Open the box and see what we think.

[Em]

Show me again.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Oh, so you don't know yet?

[Christine]

I don't know yet because I haven't opened the box. But I'm curious to see what my card is.

[Em]

I think it's a third quarter. What's your guess?

[Christine]

You know what's so funny? I said third quarter, too.

[Em]

No way. We're.

[Christine]

If this. That's weird.

[Em]

By the way. How many are there? How many options are there? Yeah. So it's not like we chose out of two.

[Christine]

No, it's not.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Where.

[Christine]

What's that, like a 12?

[Em]

12 chance at a fraction right now. I think it's 12.

[Christine]

Hang on.

[Em]

The wind is howling.

[Christine]

Okay, so far, I don't see a card. That'd be very funny. Oh, but also every single one. Oh, hang on. I'm confused. Collect all moon phases.

[Em]

Heard somebody open a box of Capri sun and say, I'm confused because I

[Christine]

thought it was a card. I was guessing I was assuming a card because it says, collect all eight moon phases. It's that every box is. All of the Capri suns in it are one type of moon. So everyone in here is the same type. And these are waxing crescents. We did not get third quarter.

[Em]

Oh, that's a beauty, though.

[Christine]

Which one did you say that you love again? The.

[Em]

I said. Oh, a waning. I said a waxing gibbous, I think.

[Christine]

Waxing gibbous. Well, that would have been cool, too. Anyway.

[Em]

Wow.

[Christine]

We tried. It's okay. Next time.

[Em]

Very good. I like that. That new little PR Punch up they're doing. That's fun.

[Christine]

Yeah. Also not an ad, everybody, but I saw Moon Punch, and I was like, there's no way. I'm not buying that.

[Em]

You'll have to let us know how it is when you try it in five seconds.

[Christine]

What are you. What are you drinking this week?

[Em]

You know, I bought myself, like, a little cantaloupe or. It was a honeydew flavored, like, milk tea. Oh, interesting glass bottle from jungle gyms.

[Christine]

You like it or. No?

[Em]

I left it all the way on the first floor, so.

[Christine]

Okay. So too bad for me, honeydew sounds. That's one of my favorite flavors.

[Em]

Oh, I love it. I love it. It's Leona's favorite food right now. Honeydew melon.

[Christine]

Really?

[Em]

Like honeydew melon? I just like the flavor.

[Christine]

I was gonna say honeydew gets a lot of slander. Everyone has a problem with honey.

[Em]

Not into the melons, really, but the flavor of it in, like, an Ice cream or something sweet. I will eat all day long.

[Christine]

I get it. But I, I, I'm that person where when you get, like, a fruit fruit bowl, and like, of course, honey do is, like, the last one available match,

[Em]

because I'll eat all the raspberries out of it. And you eat.

[Christine]

Oh, please. I hate raspberries.

[Em]

You do? I know we figure this out, like, once every six months, but it's shocking every time.

[Christine]

Straws, blooms, and blackberries.

[Em]

Okay, I'll take the rest.

[Christine]

Okay. I will let everybody know about the waxing crescent. I'd like to think it'd be fun if all eight were different flavors.

[Em]

See, waxing, the X in. In prescription RX is on the right. So a waxing crescent. The crescent is on the right.

[Christine]

That's what you were talking about last time.

[Em]

That's how my brain remembers it.

[Christine]

This is not. Not their best, but not their worst.

[Em]

What is the worst? What's worse than that one?

[Christine]

Oh, let me go look at the flavors.

[Em]

Now I'm getting you all worked up.

[Christine]

You know, they're Pacific cooler, and their, Their island cooler is always my favorite, but that one's hard to come by. Their wild cherry is not my favorite.

[Em]

That's my favorite.

[Christine]

Wait a minute. Wild cherry flavored? What's wrong with me? I think it's their worst flavor, but I was. I was bamboozled by the fun packaging.

[Em]

Oh, I thought it was moot. Why wouldn't they change the flavor if,

[Christine]

if you were offered a situation to have to make something called moon punch. What flavor is it for you?

[Em]

Oh, some sort of, like, BlackBerry thing, I think. Right. Like, what would you do? Like, I think it would be, like, a darker berry flavor, like cosmos. You know, I hadn't.

[Christine]

I wasn't thinking that direction, but you're totally right. Now that you say it, I'm. That makes sense to me. Or star fruit.

[Em]

That's a good one, too.

[Christine]

If you did BlackBerry and starfruit mixed together, I think that'd be lovely. Thank you. See Caprice on Hire us.

[Em]

No, literally, not that hard. I'm not interested. Thanks.

[Christine]

Okay, I'll. I'll text Christine, and then. And you hire me, and I'll. We'll use Christine's answer.

[Em]

They don't want me. I'm gonna put cards in every pouch of Capri sun and be like, I thought that's what you guys wanted.

[Christine]

You know what I kind of still regret? I don't.

[Em]

I. I want to have been a little collectible. I agree.

[Christine]

I wanted the card also. What a Smart idea. You have to keep buying these until you get all eight. But then what do you do?

[Em]

Why?

[Christine]

I know.

[Em]

Like, what's the point of that? Like, it's. Are they all different flavors? That would be fun.

[Christine]

Well, let's see if it's really does glow in the dark. I got a feeling that's a no. I don't even know what part's supposed to glow in the dark. I assume the moon.

[Em]

Yeah, I would think so.

[Christine]

Does it feel like it's glowing?

[Em]

Not even remotely.

[Christine]

All right, well, we tried, folks. Anyway, that's what I drink. And you drink. Not your melon. That wasn't even the question. Then what do you drink?

[Em]

Nothing.

[Christine]

Oh, Christine.

[Em]

I know it's sad.

[Christine]

Well, to help you get through this

[Em]

in my mind off this dark time,

[Christine]

I have a story for you that I. I felt kind of silly because, as you know, last week we. I covered scrim, which is the. What we're calling an urban legend. Mythical creature according to the New York Times. But I'm aware that that's not very paranormal. And so I felt like I needed to double up this week to atone for my sins as well. And so I bring you a poltergeist.

[Em]

Exciting.

[Christine]

This is the. Depending on who you talk to. Dag Poltergeist or Dags Demon.

[Em]

Oh. So for some reason, I don't dress up for our recordings. I should start because my stylist. Yeah, I've got one of those. Esperanza from Daily look, she has found the most flattering and beautiful, like, classy clothes for me that are there when I need to look classy, which is rare. Right. But when it happens, I'm like, esperanza's got me. I've got a beautiful green blazer, like these gorgeous slacks. And I was like, this is not something I ever would have known where to buy or how to shop for. But, yeah, Daily look has really come in handy for me.

[Christine]

Daily look is the number one highest rated premium personal styling service for women. And with Daily look, you get your own dedicated personal stylist. Like Esperanza, maybe her. Exactly. I'm not sure. To curate a box of clothes based on your body shape preferences and lifestyle. It's not an algorithm. It is real personal stylists. And you get the same stylist every time so you can have a little bond, like Christine does. She learns more about you. It's a wonderful relationship.

[Em]

Yes, it is such a cool setup. It's time to get your own personal stylist with Daily look. Head to dailylook.com to take your style quiz and use code drink for 50% off your first order.

[Christine]

Once again, that's DailyLook.com for 50% off. Make sure you use our promo Code Drink so that they know we sent

[Em]

you one last time. Dailylook.com promo code drink.

[Christine]

Um, Allison is back home and that means that Hungryroot is now double in flux at our house. I've been getting quite a few boxes and we don't plan on sharing it because we love Hungryroot that much.

[Em]

Basically, they give you like a custom shopping cart order and ship it to your house. But it's like these well known brands. Like, I had some Ithaca hummus, which I had recently discovered, and then all of a sudden it was in my hungry root box. And they prepare it so that you have like additional. Like, it's not just like, oh, here are your three set dinners. It's like, oh, here's also some breakfast stuff because I know you, Christine, I know you forget to eat breakfast. And so they like kind of start sprinkling stuff in get to know you and your family and how you eat.

[Christine]

Allison and I have very different tastes on our faces. And it's. It's nice to have a whole box to myself, but it's wonderful. They plan your groceries for the entire week. They hold all of its food to high standards, screening out over 200 additives, including high fructose corn syrup, artificial sweeteners, and preservatives. They, they just got you handled over there.

[Em]

You're going to love Hungryroot as much as we do. For a limited time, get 40 off your first box, plus get a free item in every box for life.

[Christine]

Go to hungryroot.com drink and use code drink, that's hungryroot.com drink code drink to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. I did these notes in advance, so I will not. I'm gonna learn along with everybody. I know we've. People are probably sick of me saying that after 500 episodes, but sometimes I just don't know what I'm gonna say.

[Em]

And they can't be that sick of it because we're all here.

[Christine]

That's a great point. Okay. Okay. So the year is 1899. We know her well. And this is in my favorite place, Canada. This is in the Ottawa Valley. Ooh. I don't know enough about Canadian geography, but I think that's.

[Em]

Do not.

[Christine]

Quebec. Okay.

[Em]

Do not. I mean, listen, I'm just gonna say whatever you say em.

[Christine]

Okay. It's in Canada. And there's a guy named George Dag. He's a farmer and he has a wife, Susan, and he has three kids. You don't really have to know their names, but I'll give it to you anyway. 5 year old Mary, 2 year old Johnny, and then an 11 year old named Dinah, who apparently on records, her middle name was Burden. Yikes.

[Em]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's a choice.

[Christine]

Crazy, crazy choice. So she was adopted. They said that she's. She was.

[Em]

She was adopted and called a burden.

[Christine]

That's exactly right.

[Em]

Whoa.

[Christine]

And you'll see why she was originally an orphan. And I say that in quotes because apparently her mom was around. I think it was maybe the 1899 equivalent to like a foster kid.

[Em]

Okay, okay.

[Christine]

And so they. But they did adopt her. I don't know what the situation was, but they adopted her. They also had other orphans, maybe foster children living with them on their farm to work as farm hands. So I think they had some sort of deal with the orphanage of like, we'll house them to give you more capacity for other orphans, but they'll work on our farm.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

It's a little vague, but. But Dinah was apparently adopted by the family. So In September of 1889, George gave his wife Susan a two dollar bill and a five dollar bill, which are the equivalent to like a hundred dollars and two hundred and fifty dollars today.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

And he gave her a two dollar bill and a five dollar bill. The night before all of this craziness happens, he said, put it in the bedroom drawer for safekeeping. And the next day, one of the farmhand kids came up to George and handed him a five dollar bill. The one that should have been in his bedroom, but. So now it looks like this kid has stolen from George's bedroom.

[Em]

Okay. But hands it back to George.

[Christine]

I don't understand that either. I'm like, if he stole it, he's doing a pretty bad job.

[Em]

I really understand. Yeah, okay. But.

[Christine]

So he's like, where did you find this? He says he found it. The kid says he's found it in the kitchen. And George is like, that is not possible because it was in our bedroom door for safekeeping. So after checking the drawer and seeing, yep, the money that was supposed to be there is gone. George accused the kid of making the money. George sounds like he's a bit of a. What's the word? A hothead. Let's leave it there.

[Em]

Yeah. He wasn't gonna hear the kid out.

[Christine]

Yeah. Especially when he's like handing it to you. Didn't really steal it.

[Em]

Yeah. It feels like you should get. Cut him some slack. But okay.

[Christine]

So he goes to the kid's room to see, like, did you also steal the two dollar bill? And the kid's like, no, no, I didn't steal it. I didn't steal it. But then George shakes the kids quilts on his bed, and the two dollar bill fell out of the bed. Yikes.

[Em]

Oh, no.

[Christine]

Yikes. After this incident, first of all, him and the kids did not have any trust for each other because this poor kid's like, I did not take the money. I don't know why.

[Em]

And I was trying to do the right thing.

[Christine]

Yeah. But after this incident, many more odd things start happening around the farm.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

And.

[Christine]

And of course, Dean is suspect number one because of this one other weird situation. But the things happening around the farm are, like, jars of butter and milk buckets start emptying themselves. At some point, the family.

[Em]

Because, like, those are a lot of work.

[Christine]

It's a lot of work to get, especially the butter.

[Em]

Butter. I mean, that's like hours and hours. And then it's like, it just dumps out. Like, that's really up.

[Christine]

And if I were on that farm, I could see people taking one look at me and going, you obviously just ate all of our butter.

[Em]

We're, like, sitting there with our Winnie the Pooh shirts on. Like, with our hand in there.

[Christine]

Like, no, with our tubbies out of

[Em]

our shirts, our crop top and no pants eating butter.

[Christine]

But you know what? Being Winnie the Pooh feels like. What we should call, like, enjoying a rainy day is like, no, barely a shirt on.

[Em]

Eating out of the container.

[Christine]

Yeah. It just sounds so nice.

[Em]

Actually sounds like most days of my life.

[Christine]

So I was gonna say that's some. That's how you should appreciate your windy, windy night tonight.

[Em]

I will. Thank you.

[Christine]

Yeah. But, yeah, so the. The butter's going missing. The milk's going missing. You know, I like milk also, so I feel like you're.

[Em]

You're suspect number one here.

[Christine]

I would be suspect number one.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

But eventually it got even crazier where the family started finding, like, fecal matter smeared all over the house.

[Em]

Oh, no.

[Christine]

Like, it went from money was stolen, but not really, because it's being handed right back to you to, there's poop in the house. And of course they blame Dean. So Georgia literally took him down to the courthouse and, like, in front of a judge and was like, I don't know what to do with this kid. Oh, Geez, fix this. But while they were gone, even more waste appeared through the house. And so that at least absolved.

[Em]

Let him off the hook.

[Christine]

Yeah, let him off the hook. So although this kid was not actually responsible, he certainly never came back to work for that farm again. He was like, take me back to the orphanage.

[Em]

Like, seriously? That's. That's. Yeah, not fun. And they lived there, right? Like, he was living there. Okay.

[Christine]

But so weird things are happening, and now the kid that they were blaming everything on isn't even there. So now they just have to face what's going on. But around the same time, George's parents were staying with the family. And one day, George is walking around outside, and he looks in the house or looks at the house as he's walking towards it, and the windows start exploding one by one on their own.

[Em]

What?

[Christine]

That's what he said.

[Em]

What?

[Christine]

Girl, are you sure? Is anyone else seeing this? Well, originally he was thinking that someone was, like, throwing rocks at his window. He thought, yeah, the kid came back and was retaliating and, like, throwing rocks at their window as, like, a big you. So he literally tried to hide around the house as if he was living out his own, like, Call of Duty experience. He was, like, hunkering down in different angles, trying to see where the rocks were coming from.

[Em]

Duty experience.

[Christine]

And he's. He's watching these windows just pop, pop, pop, explode. And there's no one around to be throwing these rocks, and there are no rocks. He realizes there's no rocks. The windows are just exploding.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

I think eight in total ended up breaking.

[Em]

Jesus, that's expensive.

[Christine]

So expensive. Especially, you know, they were on the top floor, too. Oh.

[Em]

And back then, like, how the do you even. You can't just call, like, your local.

[Christine]

You can't even look it up. How to do it yourself.

[Em]

Safe flight repair. Safe flight replace. You can't call any of these people.

[Christine]

Thank you. I just told Christine before we recorded that I missed jingles. Beautiful. What was your favorite jingle? You have a favorite one?

[Em]

Wrecker and burger Comfort Zone. That was a local one, but we've

[Christine]

done this, I think, apparently.

[Em]

Yeah. Oh, it hit something in your brain. Yeah. My brother and I used to scream. Recommends burger. I don't know. It wasn't even funny. But that's what we screamed. Yeah. What was yours? Was it a radio station?

[Christine]

It was a H VAC company.

[Em]

Oh.

[Christine]

Or. No, it was a. For heat. Yeah. Heat and air. There's just one name. Robert B. Pain. Yeah. And they said it just as monotone. Too.

[Em]

Yeah, they said it's, like, so bored out of their skull.

[Christine]

No. I used to love the. The Kraft Mac and Cheese theme song. When. Remember when they had a little dinosaur as their. I was their mascot. They go, it's Cheesosaurus rex. I loved him. Okay. So anyway, the windows are exploding.

[Em]

Oh, no.

[Christine]

Soon after this, small fires even begin starting all over the farm. And, like, not even one at a time like this. There was a day where, like, eight broke out all at once, and six of them were inside the house.

[Em]

So it's trying to prove, like, this isn't a little kid, right?

[Christine]

Yeah. And it's also saying, like, I dare you to solve this problem.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

If all of a sudden there's six fires in different parts of your house, like, where do you even go first? I would cry. One time, a window spontaneously caught on fire in front of the entire family and neighbors, and it burnt up the curtains. And everyone in the. Everyone saw it happen. There was no person to blame.

[Em]

Right.

[Christine]

And then things begin to happen to the family. So, like, Susan, the wife, she got splashed with water that just appeared out of nowhere. Their daughter got hit with a rock that came out of nowhere. She apparently felt no pain, which is nice.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

But still, a rock got chucked at her right in the chest. And then Dinah, the kid that they adopted, Ms. Burden, if you will, she had her hair yanked one time. Her braid was literally sliced almost all the way off by itself.

[Em]

Oh, my God.

[Christine]

As if something had cut it. Oh, no. And then things would get thrown to her all the time. Some of them included a water jug, milk pitcher, wash basin, cream jug, butter tub, and other articles. End quote. Oh, but imagine a pitcher getting just thrown at you, and then that's not the end of it.

[Em]

Yeah. And you have no one to even yell at.

[Christine]

And a wash basin. I know. That was dirty.

[Em]

That's heavy. Oh, yeah. And dirty.

[Christine]

Heavy. Yeah, it's all bad. So one time, Dinah and her grandma George's mom were cleaning. I fucking love this woman. You're gonna like. Well, I don't know if you're gonna like Georgia's mom, but I like her. One time, Dinah and grandma were cleaning the kid's bedroom, and I guess Grandma was not gonna fuck around with Pookie. Stuff with the spirits.

[Em]

Mm.

[Christine]

She was not interested in this. And so Dinah all of a sudden claimed that she saw a big black thing messing with the linens in the room right behind Grandma. Like, that thing's messing. She said something like, oh, that thing's messing with the bed. Grandma turns around and doesn't see anyone there, but the quilt is floating. Grandma's not having that. She believed Dinah right away, and I don't know why. She just had, like, a travel version of this one, but she just whipped out a. A literal bullwhip. She had a bullwhip on her. Grandma, what the hell's going on here?

[Em]

I hope that wasn't for the kids.

[Christine]

I hope not. I mean, they're on a farm. I'm gonna. I'm gonna assume that. But she just happened to have a whip on her and handed it to Dinah and literally told her, whatever it is that you see over there by the bed, beat it as hard as you fucking can.

[Em]

Oh, my God.

[Christine]

Not how I would handle things, but I like that Grandma was at least proactive and believed Dinah, because it seems

[Em]

like everybody else was like, you handle it.

[Christine]

But, like, literally, like, encouraging the crazy. Like, this is just, like, you could only get away with this in 1899 farmland.

[Em]

And if it's your grandma and grandchild, that's, like, the only relationship where this would happen. I feel, like, 100%.

[Christine]

Oh, beat it up. Like. Like, rip it up. I think she said, like, hit it as hard as you can over and over and over again. Dinah started wailing on this thing and made so much noise that the rest of the family came up. Neighbors from outside came in, being like, what the is going on in this house? And they're all watching her just, like, hit this thing that they can't see, but they're all cheering her on. Whoa. So weird. I can't even imagine this feels like they would cut it out of a horror movie because it would accidentally be too funny.

[Em]

It's a little too ridiculous.

[Christine]

Yeah. Yeah. And whatever she was hitting, apparently they then heard, like, the sound of a pig squeal. And then apparently, the energy in the house went away, at least for that night.

[Em]

Oh, okay.

[Christine]

Eventually, activity did pick up again, and music could be heard playing in different rooms, especially harmonicas. Oh. Beds would get torn apart. There was a note for written out as if it was to Dinah, but nobody claimed to be the person who wrote it. It was just a note that they found. And in it, it said, you gave me 15 cuts. Yuck.

[Em]

Ew. That's way too specific and weird.

[Christine]

Another time. This is a quote. A large shelf was seen to move across the room onto the floor, so threw itself off the wall. Immediately after, a rocking chair began rocking furiously. Then a washboard was sent flying down the stairs from the lofts, even though no One was in the loft at the time.

[Em]

Is it just running around, like, pulling stuff off the walls? Like, how's it even?

[Christine]

It feels like Queer Eye a little bit where we're just taking everything off the wall and we're nothing trash.

[Em]

Yeah, yeah.

[Christine]

But, yeah, no, it's just everything's getting moved around non stop. And it'd be one. If a shelf fell off the wall in front of me. That's enough to scare me for the next four months. Four months minimum. But the fact that immediately after there's also a rocking chair and then there's also another thing, then there's another thing. And I would be like, this feels like an animatronic jump scare.

[Em]

It feels like Beauty and the Beast. Like, the big candlestick's gonna start singing in a second.

[Christine]

Well, it was all around this time that all three of the children are now telling their parents pretty regularly that they see this entity, whatever it is, because Dinah originally just saw it as like this big, black, shadowy mess. But now the other kids are seeing it too. And it was described to. At different times. It was described as different things. It would, like, morph. I hate that. And it would morph into, quote, a tall, thin man with a cow's head, horns, and cloven feet. At another time, a big black dog. And later, which we have not gotten to this point in the story yet, but as a beautiful man with long white hair, dressed in white, wearing a crown with stars in it.

[Em]

What the.

[Christine]

That one's giving Jesus a little bit.

[Em]

It is, but it's giving, like, knockoff Jesus. Like, put some stars on his crown. What?

[Christine]

Yeah. And long white hair. It's like, oh, we almost got.

[Em]

It doesn't have that.

[Christine]

At the same time that the kids are now seeing this person everywhere, the entity began speaking to not just the kids and family, but literally anyone. Like you and I could walk into the house and this thing just starts talking to you. And not in one words, but like, one word phrases in, like, full conversations. It was often in a very heavy, gravelly male voice. And one time the daughter Mary saw this creature in the doorway. And apparently when they asked her what he was doing, she said that he was pouring sugar onto the oven. What feels very like Uncanny Valley. Black Eyed Kids.

[Em]

Yeah. Amelia Bedelia.

[Christine]

Yeah, very Amelia Bedelia. So it was just pouring sugar onto the oven. And then when she tried to talk to it, it asked her, do you want to come to hell with me? Nope.

[Em]

No, thanks.

[Christine]

I'm okay.

[Em]

I'm busy that day.

[Christine]

I have a tummy Ache. Other times it spoke. Other times when it spoke, it would scream curses. This is a very. This is silly to me. It would scream curses so foul that newspapers in 1899 could only refer to it as barnyard language.

[Em]

Ah. Barnyard language. Or as my stepdad calls it, sailor speak.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah. It was censored by the press. Wow. Another time, a neighborhood boy named Charlie thought that he heard the voice. And by this point, like, the locals all know what's going on. So I think they're all kind of just able to walk in and out of each other's houses, just.

[Em]

Yeah, you can probably, like, walk by. And, I mean, they don't have windows anymore, so you could probably hear everything going on inside.

[Christine]

Yeah, well, that's a great point. So a neighborhood boy named Charlie, he thought that he heard a voice, and so he peeked into one of the rooms. I'm assuming he kind of just went through the front door and gave a quick look around. Nobody was there. But a hat with a potato in it came flying at his head.

[Em]

A hat with a. But that's. See, this sounds like something I would do, like, as a teenager to, like,

[Christine]

also the sugar in the oven. Like, it's.

[Em]

Yeah, it feels, like, absurd. Like, it's like. Okay, a potato. Sorry, a potato in a hat.

[Christine]

A potato in a hat came flying at him. This was in newspapers. And, like, when he was, like, 85, they.

[Em]

So bizarre.

[Christine]

Brought him back to talk about it again, and he was still, like, a potato and a hat hit me in the face.

[Em]

Wow.

[Christine]

And he heard this thing scream, get out of here, Charlie, you sneak.

[Em]

I mean, it sounds like he was being a little bit of a sneak.

[Christine]

Yeah. Honestly, like, he was called sneaking around for that.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Another time, a reverend heard laughter from the house after his Bible went missing. And guess where he found that fucking Bible. In the oven. What is going on with this oven?

[Em]

Oh, I don't like that.

[Christine]

I feel like the oven is accidentally like a portal to hell.

[Em]

Either be. Yeah, it feels like it, doesn't it?

[Christine]

Because he was putting sugar on the oven, this creature, and then said, do you want to come to hell with me? As if he was prepping his. His entrance there, and then the Bible was found in there.

[Em]

Do you know what I think of,

[Christine]

too, is, like, tell me.

[Em]

Salt. You know, when people use salt to kind of create boundaries. I know sugar is different, but I

[Christine]

know what you're saying. I don't think that's the craziest thing either of us have ever said. I think if it's the opposite of salts. It almost sweetens the.

[Em]

Yeah, it's like a draw. Like draw them in nect.

[Christine]

I'm with you. I think that's a good. That's a. I don't know. Witches weigh in.

[Em]

Sugar does the opposite effect.

[Christine]

Other family friends would lose their items whenever they were at the house. And later when they had stopped or given up.

[Em]

Yeah, they're

[Christine]

potatoes and hats.

[Em]

Where's my hat?

[Christine]

I don't know.

[Em]

My potatoes been missing.

[Christine]

They would give up looking for the item and then later it would literally fall down out of thin air.

[Em]

Oh, that happened to me with that weird fireplace key flying out of my shorts.

[Christine]

Yeah, that's crazy.

[Em]

What is this vintage fireplace key? And why was it in my butt? I don't know.

[Christine]

How come across generations, like if you're in the past, present or future, that's like a ghost's favorite trick?

[Em]

Well, I think it's something about like

[Christine]

a.

[Em]

I don't know what the. The word is, but I just was reading like a glitch in the Matrix compilation and somebody said that like one example was, oh, I lost my favorite. It's like a hair clip or something. And they were like five years later, I was in a different place, like showering and something fell out of my hair. And it was like whatever hair clip that was or whatever from five years earlier. So I'm like, I don't know, I feel like things just kind of like poof and then reappear.

[Christine]

Horrifying. There was. I just saw on Tick Tock there was this one girl who was kind of freaking out and she was like. So I bought this like really cool ring when I was in Italy and I just went into my bag to grab it and there are two and I'm no longer in Italy.

[Em]

How.

[Christine]

Why are there two? And she cannot.

[Em]

Okay, those freak me the out. Because there was one of those where this woman was looking for her kids shoes and she found two of the left shoe and then like found the other one. So then they had like an extra of like this like Ariel mermaid like slipper. Like it wasn't. And it was so bizarre. And then there was a picture of all of them. And I'm like, this is just creepy, dude.

[Christine]

Yeah, could not be me. At least not sane afterwards.

[Em]

And I remember people were like, you must have bought two pairs. And she was like, I will go through every receipt.

[Christine]

Like that's the same with this girl in the ring. She's like, I know I bought one ring off of this like random man in Italy. Or something.

[Em]

Oh, that is so, so weird.

[Christine]

Yuck, yuck, yak, yuck. As I mentioned earlier with the neighborhood boy, Mr. Potato Head, as I'm going to call him, the activity became so common that the entire town knew what was going on in this house. It just became normal that if you were at that house, you would probably witness something, including like, remember the curtains caught on fire? Yeah.

[Em]

I'd go over there.

[Christine]

You would what?

[Em]

I'd go over there to hang out.

[Christine]

I would too.

[Em]

See what else. See what there is to see at this point.

[Christine]

I mean, I guess there wasn't ghost hunting equipment yet, but like, if I had any and I was there, I'd be like, let's you see a bullwhip. You know, you would think the bullwhip would have taught this thing a thing or two. But it sounds like he's still appearing.

[Em]

Yeah, it sounds like he's just been kind of had to go lick his wounds and come back.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah.

[Em]

15 cuts.

[Christine]

You gave me 15.

[Em]

So gross.

[Christine]

Beg to differ. Also, like, if it Wasn't this like 11 year old pranking all of us, imagine how horrified she must be. Yeah. And she's being named burden.

[Em]

I mean, at this point, I get it. She is a burden to me. And at least while you're telling me

[Christine]

this story, the family is certainly inconvenienced.

[Em]

I feel inconvenienced also. Yeah.

[Christine]

Because a lot of the activity is specifically focus on her. I'm kind of giving like an overall Right. Generalization of what's happening in the house, but most of the activity is happening near her. Gotcha.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

I think where the name comes from. But yeah. So everyone in town knew about this. And the spirit, like I said, was talking to anyone about anything, had no problem holding conversations. He was willing to show itself to anyone by speaking. And eventually George Dag, he went looking for help and found this healer known as the Witch of Plum Hollow.

[Em]

That feels like an Etsy store.

[Christine]

It does. And I want to know what the nearest Hollow to me is so I can just holler. Holler, Holla. Hollow. I feel like that's how we got Hollow. Right. Because it was like a. A dialect situation from Holler.

[Em]

No, I think Hollow. I think it is a Hollow.

[Christine]

But are Hollows and Hollers different?

[Em]

No, I think Holler is just the. The like Appalachian or Southern way to say it.

[Christine]

Okay, so. Okay, good to know. The Plum of Witch Hauler, that's what. Or wait, the Witch of Plum Hauler, so.

[Em]

Oh yeah, the Plum of Witchhaller. Okay.

[Christine]

So he goes to the sealer, and she tells George that the spirit was conjured by a widow in town and her two kids. And it was on leave the widow alone, especially because in town there was only one widow with two kids.

[Em]

Of course there was.

[Christine]

And everyone said, well, that must be Mrs. Wallace, who's never had a problem with the family. She has no problem with Dinah. The. The healer even said, oh, she's doing this to bother Dinah.

[Em]

What?

[Christine]

And they literally went and confronted Ms. Wallace. And she was like, I literally don't care about.

[Em]

I'm literally trying to raise my children by myself. Like, off.

[Christine]

She's like, I don't care about Dinah. I'm sorry.

[Em]

No. I have my own kids. Burdens to do it.

[Christine]

Yeah. Bigger fish to fry. So it didn't stop, though. They decided that she must be responsible, so they kept that in the back of their mind. Eventually, the press got involved, and one reporter in particular, his name was Percy Woodcock.

[Em]

Oh, my God.

[Christine]

And Percy Woodcock, when he got there, he asked Dinah at the house, like, oh, I know that you're. This thing seems to follow you around. When was the last time you heard from this entity that's willing to talk to all of the people in town? And Dinah said, oh, I just talked to him in the shed. And Percy went, well, please escort me to the shed. So Percy goes there and asks the spirit to identify itself. And then he hears a voice in the shed that says, I am the devil. I'll have you in my clutches. Get out of here or I'll break you. Your neck.

[Em]

Jesus. I mean. Okay, relax.

[Christine]

Yeah, back up. It's fine.

[Em]

Holy. Calm down.

[Christine]

So Percy Woodcock was not rattled by this. He ended up talking to the spirit for, like, five hours. He's like.

[Em]

And I. I'll. I'm the only one who understands him.

[Christine]

Imagine the spirit, like, just had so many plans that day, and now he's just cornered in a shed with this man who won't leave him alone. And now they're talking for five hours.

[Em]

It's like. It's like, make yourself at home. But, like, took it too far, you know?

[Christine]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, whenever Percy Woodcock said something that offended the spirit, it seemed that Dinah and the spirit had some sort of weird attachment to each other. Because if the spirit ever got offended, Dinah would start acting as if she'd been punched or scratched by the entity.

[Em]

Okay, so she's being like the. Okay, yeah.

[Christine]

Conduit or whatever the word is. Now, also, if she was the one who was up to all this. And somehow learned ventriloquism and was throwing.

[Em]

Which these little girls have. Which we've seen have. Has happened back in the day, people.

[Christine]

I mean, you get bored in 1899 on a farm.

[Em]

I get it. Listen, if I had any of these toe knuckle tapping, I would have taken advantage of that long ago.

[Christine]

Especially like, what's a woman to do

[Em]

when they can't make money and no one's listening to you and finally they

[Christine]

are and they're calling you a burden. It's like, I'll be a burden.

[Em]

Seriously, I'll snap your neck. How about that?

[Christine]

All your good windows. And I'll eat your butter while I'm at it.

[Em]

And I'll throw a potato right into your nose.

[Christine]

Yeah, well, so she starts acting like she's being punched or scratched, which some would say that anytime there's a question she probably couldn't answer, she distracted people by acting. Yeah.

[Em]

Look over there.

[Christine]

Yeah, but in this conversation, this five hour Shed conversation, Percy Woodcock found out that the spirit was purely here to cause mischief. Brought here, confirmed by Mrs. Wallace and her kids. This. This random woman who's just trying to make ends meet. When one of the witnesses actually heard this. Because of course people are coming.

[Em]

Oh, the witnesses. Right.

[Christine]

One of them random is Wallace's house. And they were like, girl, this devil's talking about you again.

[Em]

You better come door. Oh, she's coming down to the station,

[Christine]

down to confront this spirit. And she comes down and she pretty much says, like, you're a big fat liar. Why are you telling everyone all my problems? And we don't hear any more of that story. I would love to hear how that ended.

[Em]

But she ends up just like prime drama, though.

[Christine]

I. And that's why I feel like it should have ended in a nice little bow for me.

[Em]

Totally. Totally.

[Christine]

So she came over and yelled at it. The spirit quickly moved on saying, oh, well, would you like to know what type of person I used to be before I died? I am the spirit of an 80 year old man. It's like, okay. And apparently he died 20 years ago on the property.

[Em]

That's right.

[Christine]

He started telling everybody. And when they asked for his name, the spirit said, I. I'll tell you, but I'll have to kill you.

[Em]

Okay. That's out of the old playbook.

[Christine]

That's what George and Percy Woodcock said. Because they were both like, okay, I dare you. Like, you kill us then, like, tell us your name. Tell us your name and then you can kill us. So they both dared this thing. The thing apparently whispered into their ears what the name was. And surprise, surprise, neither of them ended up dying.

[Em]

Oh. I was like, oh, my God, they're dead.

[Christine]

That would be crazy. But no, this does feel like an 11 year old kind of put this all together because I feel like. And then this happened and then this random thing. Oh, oh.

[Em]

And then that said this word and it was a bad word.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, Barnyard language. So during this conversation, Percy Woodcock made Dinah keep water in her mouth to make sure that she was not the voice of the spirit.

[Em]

Oh, that's genius.

[Christine]

And he also put out a paper and pencil for this thing to write something. And apparently he watched the pencil fly away after the spirit said that he would steal it. Steal the pencil.

[Em]

It's mine now.

[Christine]

Okay, well, you know what's so funny about. So to answer the question, she did have water in her mouth and apparently they could still hear this voice. So I don't know what to do with that information. But fun fact, it doesn't seem to have been her voice being thrown. But with the pencil thing, I thought it was funny because he was like, I'm gonna leave this right here and if you want to write anything, let me know. And he saw the pencil move by itself. And then when he went up to read it, apparently he. Whatever it said on there was not friendly or pg. And he said, I said write something decent. Apparently that was his response. And that's when the spirit stole his pencil. It was like, it's like, I'm not gonna write anything then.

[Em]

Decent is boring.

[Christine]

So he. After five hours, the spirit agreed that the family does not need him to be causing any more mischief. He will stop bothering the family, but he'll stop bothering them tomorrow. And when they asked why not today, right now, the spirit said, first he needs a crowd to say goodbye.

[Em]

Oh, God, why do they always want a performance all.

[Christine]

Every time they do, they want to

[Em]

give a big show these egos of these demons.

[Christine]

The next day, the spirit voice does in fact reappear to say goodbye to everybody. But all of a sudden it sounds much nicer. And I don't know what to do with this storyline. I feel like I'm missing chapters here. But apparently he sounds much nicer than he did yesterday. And in response, the spirit says, well, I'm actually a different person. I'm an angel who will help drive out the last guy.

[Em]

No, 100%.

[Christine]

I'm like, well, I don't understand.

[Em]

Okay, the 11 year old is back at it.

[Christine]

Well, Then the spirit, who is also not the spirit and is an angel and therefore good. Not bad. Like the spirit.

[Em]

Yeah, you can just put on a mustache and let me stay.

[Christine]

Like the glasses with a little.

[Em]

Yeah. And then put on the fake. Put on some like strap on angel wings and like from fucking spirit Halloween. Here we go.

[Christine]

The spirit then starts mocking a reverend. I thought he was an angel. And now.

[Em]

Yeah, exactly. It's this fucking demon going, yeah, get a load of that last guy, right? Everyone I know.

[Christine]

And this same thing when it's very similar to the, like, I told you to write something decent. Like, just like the fact that there's something funny that happened all that time ago. Apparently when he's mocking the reverend. The reverend used to be like a photographer in town. And I guess he starts mocking and saying, I'm a better preacher than you'll ever be. He tells the reverend, go back to photography.

[Em]

Oh my God. Don't quit your day job. Is what he's saying holy or do quit your day job. Holy.

[Christine]

The spirit should quit its day job and go straight into comedy because this

[Em]

is very stand up star superstar.

[Christine]

After the reverend took off, the spirit changed its voice again back to an angelic voice, claiming that now it's. It's good. It's very good. Not evil.

[Em]

I won't do it ever again.

[Christine]

Not. Not at all. And that reverend teased being dramatic. It was not that bad what I

[Em]

said and he should go back to photography. The angel was right. Yeah, it was right.

[Christine]

The photographer. I'm sorry. The reverend is offended.

[Em]

If that's what we're calling him.

[Christine]

It be this thing started then singing religious songs and talking to everyone in a very kind way. And apparently his sing was so beautiful that it made the townspeople cry. So I don't know what the going on.

[Em]

First of all, is this. Is this a real person now? Is this a real story going around like. Like, are people swooning? I don't understand. Is this like a voice from the heavens? Is it like an actual person in town?

[Christine]

I would imagine it has to sound like an amphitheater or something. And they're just all hearing this voice

[Em]

together and then it's singing and they start crying.

[Christine]

I feel like I like, I feel like I'm giving you bullet points where, like context would be helpful here and it would. There's no other contest. I mean, this feels like it's just jumping around. It really doesn't feel like a kid is making this up.

[Em]

It's always with these ones that last several weeks or days. Or whatever, where it's like, what's even happening? This whole town has lost its mind.

[Christine]

And then it's getting out of hand. And then the kid doesn't know what to do.

[Em]

But I'm like, is there air got poisoning or whatever? Like, what's happening? Everyone's losing it.

[Christine]

So this thing starts singing. I don't know if people can see it. It sounds like, no, I don't. But then, like, people can hear it everywhere. So it sings so beautifully, everyone cries. Then it does finally leave later in the day. But the last time the spirit was actually seen was the next morning when it came to give an official goodbye to the three Dag children who were able to see him all along. Okay.

[Em]

He got to do a special goodbye for them.

[Christine]

And this was the time where I told you earlier, Pete, that the kids saw him as, like, a beautiful man with white hair, and he looked like knockoff Jesus. This is when they see him as he's saying goodbye, and he's told the entire town he's actually an angel, even though he's been doing horrible things for months. But he's an angel now. The last time anyone sees him, he does look angelic compared to the other things. And then he floats away. And others in town remember seeing a fire strike the sky and nobody ever witnessed the spirit again. I feel like this kid had the whole town at gunpoint and was, like, saying, right.

[Em]

Like, what happened to these people? That they all felt the need to

[Christine]

embellish this, share this experience.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

I feel like this is a crazy game of telephone, and everyone's, like, new detail actually stuck.

[Em]

Right?

[Christine]

Like, it just.

[Em]

Right.

[Christine]

It feels like everybody was like, well, we're bored, and I need to feel like I contributed to this story.

[Em]

It's like a group project with no boundaries whatsoever. Yeah.

[Christine]

So before. This is Percy Woodcock, that reporter. Before leaving town, he had. He had up to 20 people, or nearly 20 people sign a witness testimony of everything that they saw and experienced. So that way he could publish this in his local paper that he had, like, 17 people sign that they all witnessed everything I just said. Oh. And as soon as all these. All the activity started dying down the dags. This is so up packed up Dinah and moved her to a different orphan's home.

[Em]

Oh, Dinah.

[Christine]

Once she was gone, the poltergeist never came back either. So I don't know what that tells you, but it sounds like Dinah, AKA the Burden, or whatever she was called

[Em]

to get a Nick, to get a middle name, like Burden. It's like Even if that's a. Some sort of a family name or something, it's like, right. Why would you put that on your. A baby. A child.

[Christine]

And, like, someone who's already had to deal with, like, being a part of the adoption process and all that. Like, if.

[Em]

But like, it. Was that the name that she was given at birth or, like, we don't know her adoption. Okay.

[Christine]

Don't know anything. And it's said that even creepier, at the end of all this, which. This feels like it could become a true crime if only we had the. The data. But once she was living somewhere else, she still had a surviving uncle who I guess she would visit from time to time. And one weekend she was at her uncle's house, and a strange man came to her uncle's house and said, I'm here on behalf of the DAG family. I need you to come with me. And she did and was never seen again.

[Em]

What?

[Christine]

Arguably the craziest and most believable part of it all.

[Em]

Yes. That's the worst part and the most believable. Oh, no.

[Christine]

Because chances are someone who was obsessing over the. The news articles that came out just found her and just, I don't know, maybe thought they want with her. Yeah. Just. They said, oh, I'm. You need to come with me. And maybe they thought, like, they would hurt her to, like, end the spooky paranormal stuff. Maybe they. I don't know what happened to her.

[Em]

Mm.

[Christine]

The house still stands, even though 1899, by the way. And as far as I know, the same family has lived there since the 80s.

[Em]

Where is it? At the.

[Christine]

It is in Canada.

[Em]

Oh, Canada.

[Christine]

It's Ottawa, Ottawa, Valley. The. It's in a town near Clarendon. But the same family that's been there since the 80s is apparently still there. And the. They used to be the kids there. Now they're obviously adults themselves, but they swear that that house was absolutely fucking haunted.

[Em]

I mean, you have all those kids from different backgrounds coming together, living under one roof, going through puberty, like, having to work labor for their housing. It's just. Yeah.

[Christine]

And it's interesting that 100 years later, we're still hearing that there's a ghost there, but now it manifests itself in totally, quote, modern ways. Like, because the kids that grew up there in the 80s are saying, like, oh, yeah, we would always hear someone on the stairs, and then it would stop right before our door. We. There was one door upstairs that would constantly open itself and slam itself all night long. We would see a Little girl in white walking through the kitchen. She would walk through the walls and doors. We heard crawling and scratching in the attic. But so, like, none of that has anything to do with everything I just said, you know?

[Em]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Christine]

Anyway, that. That's the story. I feel like this is kind of like the worst poltergeist case I've ever covered because there's no real beginning, middle, or end. It was just kind of a list of things that happened.

[Em]

No, I would say the climax of this whole story was a potato in a hat getting checked. That one kid.

[Christine]

Well, I. I was trying to find a poltergeist case and this one came up and I. It. I would say that I don't think she should have been, like, brought to a new orphanage, but I do think this was an 11 year old born on a farm.

[Em]

It sounds like maybe that was the case, which I feel like. Isn't that what happened sort of with perhaps with Jeff the Mongoose and perhaps with the Fox sisters, and perhaps with.

[Christine]

It's a lot of girls in the 1800s.

[Em]

I get it, man. I would. I did way dumber things with my time.

[Christine]

And that tells me, by the way, that this interest in spooky things is universal. Because if they had paranormal podcasts back then, they would have just channeled their energy into a totally different thing.

[Em]

Yeah, yeah. And kids are always gonna pull nonsense, I guess.

[Christine]

I guess so.

[Em]

Especially when they're bored.

[Christine]

Well, that's the Dag Poltergeist. Or Dag's Demon.

[Em]

Very good.

[Christine]

There you go.

[Em]

M. How's Hank?

[Christine]

He's good. He is currently at the dog park. He's. He's doing just fine, although he's been in a sock phase these days.

[Em]

Oh, good for him. He probably got that from Geo.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

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[Christine]

Yeah. When you Enroll in an ASPCA pet health insurance plan, you can get a $25Amazon gift card. It's a little treat for you while you're doing something great for your pet.

[Em]

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[Christine]

Visit aspcapetinsurance dot com AmazonTarms for more info.

[Em]

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[Christine]

ZipRecruiter recommends smart screening questions to help you hone in on that perfect match for your role. And right now, you can try it for [e-mail] Drink as you know, we are obsessed with Zip Recruiter. We've been screaming their praises for years and years and years.

[Em]

Skills based hiring from the very start. Because Eva was the most skillful person we could have found for the job.

[Christine]

We had a really strict interview process.

[Em]

That's right. Very strict.

[Christine]

Yeah, but if it weren't for Zip recruiter, we would have never found her. And we found her within 24 hours.

[Em]

It's incredible. Let ZipRecruiter help you find amazing candidates with the skills you seek. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day.

[Christine]

And now you can try it for [e-mail] drink that ziprecruiter.com drink meet your match on ZipRecruiter.

[Em]

Okay, well, hello everyone. For my section which is crime, crime, crime or what did I call it? Bad stuff.

[Christine]

Bad stuff.

[Em]

Now, I had one of those weeks where, tell me if this happens to you ever m where like, you'll be trying to pick a story and every time you, like start on a story, just get to a point where you're like, like, scrap it.

[Christine]

You know, I've been there and it's

[Em]

not like anything's inherently wrong with the topic. It's just like either it's not flowing, it's not working, it's just not interesting to me. Anymore Like, I don't know, it just doesn't, doesn't work in a notes. In my notes format. I don't know, just, just wasn't working.

[Christine]

Been there, been there, been happened so

[Em]

many times and finally it was literally yesterday. I was like, I have been all week trying to pick a story and I've watched so many different documentaries, I've read so many different articles and blah, blah, blah. Anyway, I finally found this story and because I was on a time crunch, it is a developing, a somewhat developing story. It is in the past but the trial is ongoing and so I thought, well, I'll research this and it's quite short, so. But I've also done so many long ones lately, I figure, you know, can't hurt.

[Christine]

Rock on. Wait, so wait, quick, quick, quick, quick, quick. So what is your. You seem to be going through like a little moment where you're like not just sticking with stories that like have a full completion.

[Em]

Yeah, no, I'm just kind of like exploring. I, I think it's because of all the current events I've been just more attuned to what's going down. And so when it comes to true crime, I'm finally like actually following stories as they're breaking. And I think it's just naturally led to like more open ended, less cohesive stories because they're not all like wrapped up yet, you know. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, so that's probably what this one is. Although it did happen in 2024, so we're quite a ways away from it now. But this is the disappearance of Matthew Johnson. Okay, so this took place in Cottonwood Heights, Utah, a suburb in Utah. 51 year old military husband, he was a Green Beret, gave over a decade of service, was now retired and his wife Jennifer was 42. He was described as a really fun guy, great dad, family man. Jennifer was described by, by Matthew's friends as quote, nice. Oh, and I went, that's not a good sign.

[Christine]

No, I. And also in general, if someone just described me as nice, I'd be like, oh boy, I need more.

[Em]

That's it? Yeah, that's, that's. Yikes. And when I was a kid, I remember we did like this thing where you passed around a piece of paper with your name on it and everyone wrote a word that made. And I got the word nice like six times and then I got the word weird three times and I got,

[Christine]

you're only twice as nice as you are one.

[Em]

Funny. Okay.

[Christine]

Are you still friends with that person?

[Em]

I don't know. Who wrote it? That was. The other thing is, like, it was all in different people's handwritings. I don't know who called me weird. Yes, I do.

[Christine]

Did you just write it three times yourself or.

[Em]

It was my teacher. No. Okay. So he is a retired military guy. He's 51. His wife's 42. They have three kids, two boys and one girl. Their ages are 11, 7, and 5. This Cottonwood Heights area in Utah is this upscale neighborhood, just very Utah, you know, the family itself is a very picturesque family picture. Like, two blonde parents with three cute blonde kids. And in the family photo, they're all wearing white, you know, and in a field somewhere at sunset. Like, it's. It's. They're very all American, you know, kind of cliche.

[Christine]

Okay. Love it.

[Em]

So Jennifer Gledhill. She got to a point at around the age of 42, which was July 2024, where she was not quite happy in her marriage, and she told friends she was considering getting a divorce from her husband. So in August, which was a month later, she filed for protective order, claiming she needed protection. And when the judge took a look at this, he watched the videos she had sent in as, like, evidence of this to back her back up her statement. The judge found the videos of her equally confrontational in the videos and said that her own texts were repeatedly berating, belittling, and demeaning, if not outright attempting to goad her husband into a violent response. So the judge was like, nice try. You don't need a protection order. You're just as violent and, like, prone to outbursts as your husband. So, okay, you don't get the. You don't get the protection.

[Christine]

Protection. Yeah. Okay.

[Em]

So the conduct of the parties, as the judge said, over the past several months, is representative of a highly dysfunctional marriage, bringing out the worst in the parties. Clearly suggestive that an action for divorce should have been filed long before reaching the current state of affairs. So things are just looking Dicey.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

In 2024, her behavior started to change and she started to get more aggressive, especially after the protection order failed. And it seemed that the judge didn't believe her version of events. She apparently allegedly acted so disturbingly that Matthew himself ended up sleeping at a National Guard facility in Utah out of concerns for his own safety. So he was clearly uncomfortable even just being in the house with her. Wow. Little did he know that Jennifer was already starting on her double life. September 19, 2024, Jennifer went over to her lover's house and showed him her Glock 19X.

[Christine]

What a what? A fun thing to show somebody.

[Em]

Isn't that romantic?

[Christine]

Here's my big fat gun. Yeah.

[Em]

And he was like, I didn't think anything of it. And I'm like, okay, okay.

[Christine]

Well maybe that's just your culture. I. It's not part of that world.

[Em]

So that was September 19th. She then arranged for her kids to stay at her parents house. And on September 20, according to neighbors, they heard a loud confrontation, a heated argument coming from the house. Apparently Matthew confronted her because he knew Jennifer had been sleeping with someone else. And all their marital problems kind of like bubble to the surface and people just described like an all out brawl.

[Christine]

Brawl.

[Em]

Yeah. In the early hours of September 21, 2024, as Matthew slept in his bed, Jennifer took her Glock, shot her husband in the head, and then hid his body in a rooftop storage container. And slid it down the stairs to get it into her car. Oh my God. Drive it to a shallow grave.

[Christine]

Was this. Well, maybe you'll tell me, but was any of this pre planned or is she now having to just go dig a grave just to.

[Em]

Well, it was not, not pre planned, but it was not really methodical in nature.

[Christine]

It had been days.

[Em]

Clearly she'd been thinking about this. If the day before, she's like showing her gun to her boyfriend.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

And then she waited till he fell asleep. Till her husband fell asleep and shot him. So it's like clearly she was waiting for this opportunity.

[Christine]

And I like, I wonder what this brawl looked like or how it ended. Because if he was already feeling unsafe in his own house, I wonder if she did some sort of like, like the classic line of like, don't leave, like let's make this work and just, just stay the night with me. Just.

[Em]

Yeah, if he was sleeping elsewhere. Yeah, exactly. It's a little bit weird. So it feels like sort of planned, sort of not planned. You know, it's like I feel like it was like not off the table, you know. And then it kind of all came to a head pretty quickly. So my God, she went and got carpet cleaning supplies, bleach, ordered a new wealth. We'll get to the new mattress. Ordered a new mattress. Let's put that out there for now. September 22nd. So that was on September 21st, like the middle of the night. So early September 21st. Now the following day, September 22nd, just before midnight, she showed up at her boyfriend's house and told him everything.

[Christine]

I don't know, I would hate that. If I were the boyfriend, I'd go,

[Em]

please don't tell Me that, hey, guess what? He didn't like that one bit.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah.

[Em]

He noticed her bruises and said, what is going on? What happened to you? And she said, oh, I got them while burying Matthew's body.

[Christine]

That. I mean, I know she already literally killed her husband, so I can't really say, like, oh, now she's lost it. But that's that in my mind, if you're going to kill your husband, like you said, I assume people are going to be methodical about it. And this just proves that she's really just like flying off the.

[Em]

Totally. Like, she's not thinking anything through here at this point.

[Christine]

No, it's. There's something even eerier about it being so spontaneous and impulsive and she, like, doesn't really know what the next move is, which, I've never killed someone, but I know the next move is keep your mouth shut.

[Em]

Yeah, well, clearly she did the exact wrong thing, right? Because, yeah, he's like, uncomfortable. He's horrified, frankly. And he decided he's going to record their next conversation because he was like, I don't know what we're going to be talking about, but I have a feeling I need to record it. And he recorded it. And in the conversation she said, wow, if you think when he mentioned, like, oh, if this were the other, like, if, like, picture this way, like, you have to understand, I was scared and this is scaring me. Whatever. And she said, wow, if you think I could even hurt a fly, like, he's not a person. He wasn't a person anymore. He wasn't. Matt.

[Christine]

You think I couldn't even hurt a fly, but I can hurt a human who I've now objectified into not actually being.

[Em]

He's no longer. Yeah.

[Christine]

Oi, Oi.

[Em]

I need you to know I got this beautiful console table from Wayfair and it looks so expensive and fancy and it's not. It was not expensive. I look like a grown up. Like, I went and bought this, you know, at some high end estate sale or something. But no, it was Wayfair.

[Christine]

And I need to tell you, I bought a cobblestone electric fireplace. Well, well, well, you know, I want in my witchy cottage, I needed a cobblestone, nice dark wood mantel on top, electric fireplace. Now it feels like I'm just. I'm hiding from all the villagers with my potions. It's very wonderful. Thank you, Wayfair.

[Em]

Man, we are living the life. Wayfair makes it simple to narrow down exactly what works for your style and budget. If your style is Like Rainy Potion Cottage, you know, then like you've got that. If your vibe is like, oh, this old thing, I got it at an estate sale, but it's actually not haunted for once, then that's kind of more my style. But yeah, it's really easy. It's it. They have so many different opt vibes and, and aesthetics to choose from. And it's so much easier than just traditional furniture shopping, in my opinion.

[Christine]

Me too. Find furniture, decor and essentials that fit into your unique style and budget. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W A Y-F A I R.com

[Em]

Wayfair Every style, every home. During the trial, the prosecution also read of some of. Read some of Jennifer's writings when asked by, I believe it was by her boyfriend, like, if the tables were turned and I came to you with this, wouldn't you feel the same way? Wouldn't you be scared or whatever? And she said, not if I deserved it. I always preached that I was like the queen of hearts in my past lives because I'm like, off with their heads. I'm like, if we could just round up the scum of this earth and put them on an island or just kill them all, I could ship shape this country back to a good place. And it's like, hey, those are some alarming words you're using. Crazy things you're saying, some really wild things you're saying. Like, what are you even implying? It's unclear. And at this point, by the way, when she's having these conversations with her boyfriend, she has not even reported Matthew missing. So nobody even knows this guy's missing yet. Which also like, nice job now getting a defense ready when like you're saying all this. He hasn't even been reported missing yet.

[Christine]

Yeah. At the very least they're gonna be like, why didn't you call somebody?

[Em]

You clearly know something's going on.

[Christine]

Yeah, I just, I especially feel really bad for this other guy because what do you, what are you to do? You have to assume she's gonna kill you if you don't smile through this and high five her and go, congratulations.

[Em]

I think God be about your decision. Yeah. Well, he immediately went to police and was like, I gotta talk to you about this. So he did, and he had the recorded. Hey, are you up? I have something a little bit scary to tell you. So he tells police. But again, at this point, Matt hadn't even been reported missing. Meanwhile, the Utah National Guard had noticed his absence and had Been looking for him. So there was a search warrant September 28th, where finally once he had been reported missing and it was clear that he was not anywhere and hadn't been seen in several days over a week. At this point, they got a search warrant for September 28th. And in the primary bedroom, the detectives found blood stains underneath the bed in the carpet. Like soaked through the carpet on the bed frame slats. The whole house reeked of bleach. There were blood stains everywhere.

[Christine]

Feels like one of those like slam dunk open and shut cases.

[Em]

Yeah, it kind of like.

[Christine]

Well, we don't gotta look very far, do we?

[Em]

It kind of is. And the new mattress she got, that I had mentioned briefly earlier. So it turns out that her parents had helped her purchase the mattress. And because she didn't want a mattress appearing on her front doorstep, you know, that's too obvious. She had it delivered to her parents house and then they brought it three days after the murder. There was a brand new mattress in

[Christine]

her bedroom and only then did she call the. Well, I guess she didn't have to call the police because the. His job already.

[Em]

They did report he. She did end up, I believe, reporting him missing after that. Yes, but it was, I think, I think after that or right around then.

[Christine]

But did that even matter? Because if like people have already gone in and now seen blood everywhere.

[Em]

And I mean, well, the mattress came before. So they walked in, they see all this evidence of a cleanup and then they see a brand new mattress and

[Christine]

they're like, they can piece it together. Yeah, okay.

[Em]

Like it's pretty obvious. Turns out the mom, Rosalie, had actually ordered the mattress and brought it over. So the GPS data that they showed in trial also showed Jennifer's movements on the day of the murder. And it's pretty fucking slam dunk, okay? They show her dumping the car. They show her driving north to bury his body. Unfortunately, they have never found his body and there is no clue as to where it is. She still claims not guilty. So we just don't know. We just don't know where he is.

[Christine]

That blows my mind. That someone who is so. I don't know. I don't know. I'm saying it wrong.

[Em]

Brazen.

[Christine]

Yeah, brazen. It's wild that they can get away with it. But someone who methodically plans this out still sometimes gets caught. And I'm like, yeah, I feel like of all the people I expect to get caught, certainly your first.

[Em]

I wonder if, I mean. And she was caught. It's just they haven't found his body, you know, which is frustrating. And also, like, how you know. And also it's like, it's not. It's uncommon for somebody to be in this position and not have a body. Right. But, like, it was so obvious with the other signs of the. The blood and the cleanup and her confession that. That this had been something more. So they have this GPS data that shows her driving up on the day of the murder. On October 2, 2024, Jennifer was arrested on charges of first degree murder and obstruction of justice. 22 days later, October 24th, Jennifer's parents were both arrested and charged with four counts of obstruction of justice.

[Christine]

Wow.

[Em]

Turns out that the day that they had stopped by her house for, they said less than an hour, they had actually been there for about five hours, and they brought a bunch of cleaning supplies and a brand new mattress over.

[Christine]

Wow. So they knew exactly what was going on. Okay.

[Em]

They knew what was going on. So despite claiming they'd only been there for an hour, they had brought this new mattress. And then when they looked at Rosalie, the mom's phone, she had had it remotely wiped. Oh, whose mom does that? You know, like, that's like, not a thing that you just do for fun.

[Christine]

Like, my mom wouldn't even know how to do that.

[Em]

I don't think anyone really knows, Right? Like, I was like, what? Not that anyone really knows, but, like, I don't think that's something the average, just like, boomer age mom would know, you know? No. So in addition to the cleared phone, they asked her dad about his involvement and his presence at the house that day. And he said, quote, I didn't go in where the incident happened. And they're like, oh, the incident? What incident? He's like, I don't know. I misspoke. Yeah. So you're saying there's an incident, Right? Like, hello.

[Christine]

Speak on that.

[Em]

As you'd say, speak on that, please. Yes. Police found the gun box with a Glock in it, wrapped in a child's onesie and put in a plastic tote near Jennifer's bedroom. Matthew's body has never been found. Jennifer pleaded not guilty. She faces one count of first degree murder, five of obstruction of justice, one possession of controlled substance, one count of abuse or desecration of a human body, one count of tampering with a witness. Now, she made another mistake when talking to her boyfriend because she told him she would shoot herself before going to jail.

[Christine]

Oh.

[Em]

And because of that, they were like, well, you're not getting bail then, because you're a risk. Like, we're not letting you out then. And so she was denied bail, and the trial began a couple weeks ago. Two months ago, she appeared in court, and I watched that. It was very short. Nothing much happened. But as we go forward, I will keep an eye on it and see if they're ever able to kind of put the pieces together.

[Christine]

Yeah, really.

[Em]

I don't know if they're gonna end up putting the boyfriend on the stand, I assume. Yeah, it's really sad that three kids now lost both parents. It's just. It's just crazy. It's just crazy. And the. By the way, the. The husband, Matthew, had a $500,000 life insurance policy, and she was a beneficiary, but because they can't find her body, it's like, what do they. What do we. What do they do? You know? It's like, yeah, it's all very up in the air. Tbd.

[Christine]

And what was the most recent update about this?

[Em]

Two months ago, she went to court for the first time as part of her upcoming trial or her current trial. And, yeah, it was very short, but there will be more updates on that soon.

[Christine]

Okay, man. Well, that's. That's a rough one.

[Em]

It's always something, man. It's always something.

[Christine]

I. And his name is Matthew. What was her name again?

[Em]

Jennifer.

[Christine]

Jennifer. So good for that. That love.

[Em]

I know, I know.

[Christine]

To say, time to call the cops. I. Yeah.

[Em]

See something. Say something for real.

[Christine]

100. I thought he was gonna, like, even just under duress, be like, okay, well, let's run away together. But good for him.

[Em]

I guess not. I guess she misjudged that. You know, like, she said she obviously regretted telling him.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Which, like, duh.

[Christine]

Yeah. Anyone would.

[Em]

I'm just surprised you did.

[Christine]

I. Yeah. I also. I wonder how long she's gonna be put away for.

[Em]

I know. I have no clue. Especially if I got a body.

[Christine]

Well, if I were him, I'd be scared that, like, she's gonna come after me next. Like, how many years do I get to feel safe? You know, that would always be my fear that, like, if someone told me a crime and then I, like, was the reason they went to jail, I'd be like, oh, I'm their first plan when they get totally.

[Em]

You know, I'm a loose end.

[Christine]

I'm the loose end. Yeah. Well, great. Oh, and it's Friday, Christine, so happy Friday.

[Em]

Thank you. Happy Friday. I hope you have a fun weekend.

[Christine]

I also hope I have a fun weekend. Oh, wait. Tomorrow I'm in a first aid cpr. Class all day. What's gonna. It's literally like six hours long.

[Em]

Why are you doing that?

[Christine]

I feel like I should know.

[Em]

Just for fun.

[Christine]

Just for fun. But it's six hours long.

[Em]

Damn.

[Christine]

I know. I signed up thinking like, this will be a cute little, like, do this

[Em]

in the morning and then get lunch.

[Christine]

First aid, it's people. But I am looking for an animal one. But I'd like to know how to Heimlich, because of course it'll happen in front of me. Someone's choking, and I'll be like, for sure, man. Enjoy.

[Em]

Hell, what you gotta.

[Christine]

And you gotta know, I gotta know, so. And honestly, I'm grateful that it's gonna be six hours long. So that means maybe I'll actually learn something. But didn't know that when I signed up. And it starts at nine, which means I need to be there at eight, so not so much of a weekend for me, but whatever.

[Em]

Well, enjoy. And I hope you never have to put those skills to use, but I'm glad you have them.

[Christine]

Me too. All right, have fun, everybody. And don't choke because I don't know how to save you yet.

[Em]

Not yet.

[Christine]

And that's why we drink.

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[Allie Jackson]

If you're a podcast host, listen up. This one's for you. My name is Allie Jackson. I'm the host of Finding Mr. Height, a dating and relationship podcast that I've been doing for four years now. Sharing my positive and practical approach to dating that's built on my own life experience. Experience. And I wanted to share another experience that I've had, my secret behind monetizing my show. It's called Red Circle. And I was just telling my colleague about how much I love their platform. With Red Circle, not only am I getting a seamless hosting experience, but I also love the support I receive in ad sales. It's not just typical ad sales either. It's targeted opportunities based on my show and my life. And the platform is super simple. You just set your preferences and Red Circle matches you with sponsors that align with your show you can vet every opportunity and their platform gives you great analytics. More recently, too, my Redcircle team has brought me opportunities outside of my podcast on social media to really augment the podcast partnerships. Bring them full circle. I just can't recommend them enough. If you want to give it a try, go to redcircle.com to get your free trial. That's redcircle.com for a free trial.