Transcript

Em (0:00)

This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. We have been using Squarespace since we started the podcast before, like since we.

Christine (0:07)

Before we launched it, which is.

Em (0:08)

Yeah, yeah. So we've been using it longer than the podcast has been around because we have been. We were building out our website and it was so easy. For two people who've never built a website. It was just kind of a plug and chug situation. They made it so user friendly.

Christine (0:21)

It's so true. And we've stuck around with them because since then they've only gotten better and more, you know, integrations, more features. For example, let me give you like a little situation here. If you're going to fundraise, which we're. We're not right now, but you know, if we want to go to the Mothman festival and we need to fundraise for that, for example, you can fundraise directly on your website and grow your impact. With built in donation tools you can create a professional on brand website that makes it easy to accept one time or recurring contributions from your lovely fans. No, I'm kidding. With built in email campaigns and marketing tools that's also like a huge selling point. You can connect with your community and inspire more people to support your cause, which is a really cool angle.

Em (1:03)

Yeah. Any reason you need a website, Squarespace is there for you. Head to squarespace.com drink for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code drink to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Knock knock. It's Santa. Just kidding. But it's someone who's going to be buying a lot of presents for Christmas and I don't have to worry about where I'm shopping because we are working with Uncommon Goods, which I'm very excited about this. I found out that they were one of our sponsors. I was like, this is going to be the easiest endorsement I've ever done my life. We've been using Uncommon Goods for so long. It is the dream Christmas present website. Just buying yourself a fun little treat.

Christine (1:37)

It's like something for everyone. And I don't just say that like it's really true. I bought my sister one year a from Uncommon Goods a green onion regrower kit. She loves green onions. I don't know. I was like, how the heck do they have the perfect gift for my sister who loves green onions? I don't know, but it just happened.

Em (1:52)

Uncommon Goods makes holiday shopping stress free and joyful with thousands of one of a kind gifts you can't find anywhere else. I'VE also found a lot of plant enthusiast gifts over there. I've gotten house and a whole like indoor wall grow kit. I've gotten you and Eva gifts from there. Likewise.

Summary

Podcast Summary: And That's Why We Drink - Listener Stories: Vol. 110 featuring Sarah Marshall

Release Date: December 1, 2025
Hosts: Christine Schiefer & Em Schulz
Guest: Sarah Marshall (Writer, Journalist, and Podcaster)
Theme: The intersection of murder, the paranormal, and the lasting legacy of Satanic Panic, featuring listener-submitted stories

Episode Overview

This special listener stories episode is themed around "Satanic Panic," the widespread fear in the 1980s and 90s that children and communities were under attack from satanic cults hiding in plain sight. To deepen the discussion, the hosts invite author and podcaster Sarah Marshall (“You're Wrong About”, “You Are Good”, “The Devil You Know”) to share perspective, commentary, and expertise as listeners recount personal and family stories linked to the panic, misinformation, and sometimes comic misunderstandings of that era.

Main Segments & Discussion Points

1. Introduction & Guest Welcome

[04:17–06:01] Christine and Em introduce the Satanic Panic theme and welcome Sarah Marshall.
Sarah describes herself humorously as a “proof that if you remain enthusiastic and interested in the same thing for 10 years or more, people will just decide to grade inflate you to an expert” (Sarah, 04:44).
Sarah’s credentials include being a journalist, writer, and podcaster focused on the historical, cultural, and psychological echoes of Satanic Panic.

2. Listener Story #1: Satanic Panic and Pokémon

[06:01–13:14]
Story Summary: A woman recalls how, in 1990s rural Mexico, her brother’s Pokémon collectibles were burned by their mother after a sensationalist TV show claimed the franchise had satanic messages.
Memorable moment: As the brother watches his collection go up in smoke, Christine jokes, “Even if it were satanic...don’t burn it. You’re just gonna release all the demons” (Christine, 07:52).
Sarah’s Take: Marshall views this as classic panic over children’s toys, comparing it to past hysteria over cartoons like “Rainbow Brite.” She notes, “It’s interesting that it feels like the people who are scared of the devil are seeing him in everything historically. And, you know, that’s still been consistent” (Sarah, 11:57).
Broader context discussed:
- Parental fears as projections, not reality
- Outsider media stoking moral panic
- Harmless pastimes demonized by adults

3. The Role of Media and Authority in Spreading Panic

Throughout the episode, there is discussion on:
- Sensationalist news (e.g., TV segments, comics, pamphlets)
- Amplification through authority figures (therapists, police, clergy)
- The evolution of these moral panics in today’s digital landscape (AI-generated “kid’s content” that’s deeply disturbing)

4. Listener Story #2: Hypnotherapy, “Recovered Memories,” and Real Harm

[17:50–26:20]
Story Summary: Layla recalls how her friend’s mother, navigating anxiety and a bad therapist, was led through hypnotherapy to believe in a false history of satanic ritual abuse, resulting in social isolation and mental health crisis.
Sarah’s Insight: The therapy techniques during the panic era became so cult-like that “the culture of the satanic panic itself came actually to resemble the kind of cult that they were looking for” (Sarah, 21:55). She discusses the real psychological fallout, especially for vulnerable women in therapy, and how memories—true or not—could become internal truths with repeated suggestion.

5. When Satanic Panic Meets Politics and Pop Culture

[26:20–32:05]
Sarah explains: The focus of Satanic Panic has shifted—no longer a bipartisan fear, it’s now “very much a politicized phenomenon…being used by the right...anytime someone criticizes you...you can just accuse your enemies of being Satanists” (Sarah, 27:16).
The moral panic now functions as political distraction/redirection, rather than grassroots fear.

6. Listener Story #3: Dungeons & Dragons and Chick Tracts

[33:02–41:43]
Story Summary: A listener describes a college seminar where study of D&D led to exploring infamous anti-roleplaying comics—depicting fantasy gaming as a gateway to suicide and satanic contracts.
Discussion:
- D&D lumped in with other “dangerous” games/toys
- Real consequences for misunderstood hobbies
- Sarah: “It kind of left you no way to be a good kid...the devil is gonna get you...if you were a dorky kid who just wanted to...do some fantasy roleplaying...that was also satanic” (Sarah, 40:20). Highlights adult misunderstanding vs. kids’ actual knowledge of fantasy.

7. Listener Story #4: Unsolved Crime and Cult Fears in Ohio

[45:40–52:14]
Story Summary: Following a gruesome real crime, small-town Ohio pivots to daytime Halloween, blames cults, and accuses outsiders—though the eventual conviction was unrelated to the occult.
Sarah’s Analysis: “The Satanic Panic was just kind of a bigger, badder version of [the tendency to blame outsiders or misunderstood people]...” (Sarah, 48:57). She notes how moral panics persist longer in isolated, anxious communities prone to rumors.

8. Listener Story #5: The Martensville Daycare Scandal in Canada

[56:04–62:24]
Story Summary: Multiple people, including police officers, were wrongly accused of satanic child abuse in 1992 due to mishandled interviews and hysteria. Charges were eventually dropped and settlements paid.
Sarah clarifies: “It’s zero percent [real]...the idea that Satan needed to be involved I think was weirdly kind of a comfort to people...” (Sarah, 58:58).

9. Reflections on Denial, Projection, and the Persistence of Panic

[62:24–76:00]
The group discusses how scapegoating “the devil” or Satanic cults can be a way of avoiding the painful reality that average people—neighbors, relatives, even respected community members—commit terrible acts.
“If my body is going to be dismembered...it’s in a way less scary...to think, okay, well, it’s this cult...as opposed to somebody just killing you for no good reason...” (Sarah, 53:44).
The urge to demonize the unfamiliar or “different” remains present; anyone outside the norm (queer, goth, tattooed, punk, etc.) is targeted for persecution or “praying over” to remove evil.

10. Lighter Moments: Satanic Panic Turns Comic

Frogs, not cultists: A woman in Alabama mistakes the chanting of frogs for satanic rituals and calls the police, only to find it was just bullfrogs by the creek (Christine, 81:08–82:51).
Mel’s truck stop tale: Touring metal band members receive a “prayer exorcism” from a concerned woman, sign her gifted Bible, and sell it at the merch table (Mel’s story, 63:24–71:08).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Sarah Marshall [04:44]: “If you want to, you can write [being an ‘expert’] all the way to Congress. And I think it’s very big of me to choose not to.”
Christine [07:52]: “Even if it were satanic…don’t burn it. You’re just gonna release all the demons.”
Sarah Marshall [13:06]: “If I were the Prince of Darkness, I would not be sneaking into people’s houses on pogs. You know, I just wouldn’t.”
Sarah Marshall [21:55]: “The culture of the satanic panic itself came actually to resemble the kind of cult they were looking for.”
Sarah Marshall [27:16]: “What’s nice is that…we don’t have, well meaning…feminists who got caught up in this out of the feeling that this was the only way that we were gonna have any kind of care offered for…abuse…now it’s…part of the right.”
Sarah Marshall [40:20]: “It kind of left you no way to be a good kid…if you were, like, into metal…then, like, the devil is gonna get you that way…if you were, like, a dorky kid who…liked to go to concerts and party…then, like, that was also satanic.”
Sarah Marshall [58:58]: “It’s zero percent…[of cases where Satanic cults were real].”
Christine [81:08]: “Nothing to see here, officer. Nothing to see. Don’t look in my freezer.”
Sarah Marshall [82:41]: “You’ll never escape the frog god.”
Sarah Marshall [83:53]: “Don’t you think based on the time that [the cop] had a little mustache?”

Key Takeaways & Themes

Satanic Panic thrives where anxiety, insularity, and lack of skepticism meet—often channeled through media and authority figures with their own agendas.
The phenomenon exposed society’s discomfort with “the other”—be it kids' interests, outsider adults, or changing cultural norms.
Projection and avoidance—blaming the devil distracts from uncomfortable truths about communities and abuses of power.
Though Satanic Panic’s shape has changed, similar mechanisms of scapegoating persist, weaponized to suit new cultural and political needs.
Humor, listener stories, and expert commentary offer catharsis and a reminder: sometimes, as with the frogs, the real answer is simpler and less sinister.

Episode Structure & Timestamps

[04:17–06:01] – Introduction, guest welcome, setting episode theme
[06:01–13:14] – Pokémon & Satanic Panic story
[13:14–15:10] – Broader media fears, panics in pop culture
[17:50–26:20] – Hypnotherapy, “recovered memories,” and real harm
[26:20–32:05] – Political legacy of Satanic Panic
[33:02–41:43] – Dungeons & Dragons, fantasy, and misunderstood hobbies
[45:40–52:14] – Real crime, the urge to blame cultists
[56:04–62:24] – Martinsville daycare abuse panic, zero real cults
[63:24–71:08] – Metal band’s “bathroom exorcism” and merch Bible
[81:08–82:51] – Alabama frog chorus mistaken for satanic chanting
[83:53–84:44] – Reflections, Sarah’s podcast plug, closing thanks

Guest Plug & Additional Resources

Sarah Marshall’s new podcast: “The Devil You Know” (CBC Podcasts) — Investigating the stories and fallout of Satanic Panic and moral panics across North America
Her other work: “You’re Wrong About”, “You Are Good”

Final Thoughts

Moral panics are cyclical, fueled by fear and misunderstanding—whether about Pokémon, pogs, D&D, or the “frogs down by the creek.”
Understanding the real motivations and damage done by these panics matters—with humor and empathy, we can reckon with the past and avoid repeating it.
Sometimes the “satanic” chant in the woods is just bullfrogs. And that’s why we drink.

For more chilling stories and skepticism, visit And That’s Why We Drink and Sarah Marshall’s podcast, The Devil You Know.

wavePod

Listener Stories: Vol. 110 featuring. Sarah Marshall