Philosopher on Why Being Nice is Selfish, Is Incest Bad? &, Testing our Ethics! | Alex O'Connor - Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh

Transcript

A (0:00)

You gotta help Alex figure out his moral position through a series of questions to figure out if he's a piece of. I think I'm the most empathetic out of the form. There's no way out of the four of us. I don't know. This guy's a crazy person. He's the most sensitive people he does. He's never met before.

B (0:19)

I have a switch.

A (0:20)

Yeah, but like, if they're.

B (0:21)

If they're real, that's not real empathy.

A (0:24)

No, I love every. I love everybody.

B (0:27)

You start so easy.

A (0:28)

You start good, and then you gotta it up. Everybody starts bad for you. What do they? Hari Krishna. That's the. You know what I mean? Like, trying too hard. The people. You're saying you're Hindu.

B (0:38)

No, Hari Krishnas are not Hindu.

A (0:41)

What are they?

B (0:42)

Frauds.

A (0:44)

They worship Krishna.

B (0:45)

Yeah, frauds, dude. I tried reading one of that, like, the leader's books, and this is what I immediately tapped out.

C (0:51)

He.

B (0:51)

The guy interviewing him goes, you preach not having, like, a material leading a materialistic life, but you will accept, like, gold gifts from people and whatever. And the guy goes, well, if you're giving me the gift, it's like giving it to God. And I was like, all right, this guy, dude. This guy all the way.

A (1:04)

I like him now. It's a mean thing not to accept the gift. They went, you have the most empathy. I just hear the way you guys talk sometimes, and you guys are. What are you performing for?

C (1:16)

It's not real.

A (1:19)

Honest people you don't know honestly feel that way. You think that we lack empathy for whom, though? No, I don't think you lack empathy. I think I have the most empathy. You're the most sensitive. Yes. Okay, let me. Okay, ready? Let's just do it. No, we're not starting to pop. We're just going to do a test. Can you just speak in an Indian accent? And let's just see how much empathy you have. No, but that's love. He knows I'm not laughing at him. No, no, you are.

Summary

Flagrant Podcast with Andrew Schulz & Akaash Singh

Episode: Philosopher on Why Being Nice is Selfish, Is Incest Bad? Testing our Ethics! | Alex O'Connor

Date: August 20, 2025
Featured Guest: Alex O’Connor (Oxford-educated philosopher, “Cosmic Skeptic”)

Overview of Episode

This episode dives into the wild world of moral philosophy, featuring intense debates and hilarious moments. Oxford-educated philosopher Alex O’Connor joins Andrew Schulz, Akaash Singh, Mark Gagnon, and AlexxMedia to dissect ethical hot takes. The crew embarks on philosophical thought experiments, grapples with uncomfortable moral questions (incest, bestiality, utilitarianism), and exposes the hidden selfishness behind empathy—all with the Flagrant trademark blend of humor and brutal honesty.

Major Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Is Empathy, Really? (00:00–09:00)

Debate: Who on the Flagrant crew is actually the most empathetic?
Alex’s Take: Empathy is ultimately self-serving.
- Quote: “Empathy is essentially self-serving, though. This is the thing. Like, if you're the most empathetic, it means that you're the most selfish.” – Alex (07:03)
Crew Response: Mix of agreement, defensiveness, and jokes about accents and cultural empathy.
Breakdown: The notion that performing good deeds for others is inextricably linked to the satisfaction or emotional reward one receives, challenging the idea of true altruism.

2. Testing Moral Foundations: Ethics Are Just a "Fugazi"? (09:00–13:00)

Topic: Are good and bad objective facts or evolutionary byproducts?
Alex’s Argument: Morality is an evolved social instinct, not an objective reality.
- We care more for children than cousins due to genetic closeness, not reasoned ethical principles.
Quote: “In my view, it's essentially an evolutionary byproduct... how much genetic sharing we have with people just happens to line up with how much we think we have a moral duty to care about them.” – Alex (10:29)

3. Incest, Bestiality, and the Limits of Moral Taboos (13:00–26:00)

Prompt: Schulz brings up Alex’s public ‘incest debate’ reputation.
Alex’s Approach: Clarifies that philosophy interrogates the reasoning behind taboos, not the practice itself.
Notable Quotes:
- “I'm not actually making an opinion here... I’m throwing out views and ideas... If you think incest is wrong, I’m gonna ask why.” – Alex (04:49)
Thought Experiment: Is consensual, non-reproductive incest “wrong”?
Bestiality Parallel: Is it really worse than eating animals?
- Quote: “But the moment I take my dick out, suddenly it’s like this horrible problem. So what is that?” – Alex (24:28)
Analysis: The difference in moral disgust is more about knee-jerk emotional reactions than reasoned arguments.

4. The Nature of Moral Instincts: Evolution, Biology, & Overcoming Bias (26:00–33:00)

Insight: Many of our moral taboos (against incest, bestiality, outgroup suspicion) are hardwired evolutionary traits.
Progress: “All the proud moments of human history are characterized by overcoming animalistic baselessness.” – Alex (27:09)
Alex & Schulz: Wrestling with which instincts should be retained or transcended in modern society.

5. Thought Experiments: Trolley Problem & Utilitarian Dilemmas (36:16–49:00+)

Classic Trolley Problem: Do you pull the lever to save five, at the cost of one?
- Most crew members say “no” (they won’t pull), to avoid direct responsibility.
Variations Explored:
- Numbers game (what if it’s 1 vs. 100?)
- Fat Man variation (will you push one person to save five?)
- Considering relatives vs. strangers (selfishness vs. utilitarianism)
Emotional vs. Rational Brain (48:04):
- Quote: “People who said that they would pull the lever but wouldn’t push the fat man... the part of their brain that deals with emotion was lighting up... people who would pull the lever and push the fat man... the part of their brain that deals with rational thinking was lighting up.” – Alex (48:04)
Underlying Lesson: Most people feel their way through moral judgment more than they realize.

6. Philosophy's Role, Intellectual Masturbation, & Limits of Logic (31:31–33:00, 49:28–52:02)

Alex’s Critique: “Philosophy is... arguing for the sake of arguing. Philosophical mass debating.” (30:47)
Real Impact: Philosophy rarely changes what people actually do in practical moments; it more often exposes psychological foundations for existing beliefs.

7. Emotivism: Morality Is Just Emotion (66:48–69:00)

Alex’s Position: “I’m what’s called an emotivist about ethics. I think that all ethical statements are just expressions of emotion.” (66:48)
Philosophers as Mirror: We think someone is wise if they articulate what we already feel. True intellectual mind-changing is rare—agreement is drawn out, not deposited.

8. Personal Identity, Consciousness & Split Brain (73:08–79:57)

Split-Brain Patients: Raises questions about whether humans are “one” mind or two cooperating hemispheres.
Thought Experiment: If your atoms were reassembled into two people, which one is “you?”
Philosophical Mindfucks about memory, identity, and the continuity of self.

9. Radical Honesty, Therapy, and Living With Philosophy (99:09–109:15)

Alex’s Personal Code: Has a philosophy of “radical honesty,” struggles to compartmentalize and sometimes over-analytical in real life.
Therapy/Self-Audit: Philosophy enhances but sometimes complicates living; self-reflection comes in waves and can be emotionally taxing.
- Quote: “If you want to do [self-analysis] properly, it can be soul-crushing.” – Alex (109:16)
Balance: Both overthinking and simply “living” have their roles; it’s healthiest to oscillate between the two.

10. Psychedelics, Experiences, and the Limits of Analysis (111:13–118:46)

Psychedelics: Profoundly shape perception, highlight the “guide rails” in ordinary consciousness.
Striking Moments: Reflections in mirrors (seeing one’s older or younger self), acceptance of primal emotions, the value of feeling.

11. Final Reflections: Living Authentically

Alex: Tries not to let philosophical detachment dull happiness or human connections.
Big Picture: Pursuit of knowledge and self-awareness ideally enriches, rather than replaces, lived experience.
- “It's really fun to chew on the fat... But it's also... you can just live your life and still have a really good life by any philosopher's standard of what good means without ever, like, realizing that that's what you're doing or thinking about it in that way.” – Alex (118:55)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Empathy: “If you’re the most empathetic, it means you’re the most selfish.” – Alex (07:03)
On Ethics: “Morality and good and bad in my view is all just...a smokescreen, it’s a fugazi.” – Alex (09:03)
On Bestiality: “I can take a pig...force that pig into a gas chamber, choking to death...But the moment I take my dick out, suddenly it’s like this horrible problem.” – Alex (24:28)
On Utilitarianism: “If you’re a utilitarian...suppose it’s not you, suppose it’s someone else who’s going to pull that lever and you know for a fact that they will get some pleasure out of pulling that lever and killing that person. It might not just be permissible...it might be a duty.” – Alex (41:14)
On Philosophy: “Philosophy is not how people actually make big life decisions.” – Alex (94:31)
On Therapy and Honesty: “I have a kind of...philosophy of radical honesty...I will volunteer this information to people that I care about.” – Alex (105:12)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

00:00–08:30 – Crew debates empathy: is being nice actually selfish?
13:00–16:00 – Incest, consent, and the philosophy of taboos.
24:00–26:00 – Bestiality, eating animals, and where moral disgust comes from.
36:16–49:00 – Extended trolley problem and variations; emotional vs. rational decision making.
48:04–49:04 – MRI studies show ‘feelers’ and ‘rationalists’ process the trolley problem differently.
66:48–69:41 – Emotivism: morality is just emotion, not fact.
73:08–79:57 – Split brain and personal identity: mind-bending thought experiments.
99:09–109:16 – Philosophy, radical honesty, and the emotional cost of overthinking.
111:13–118:46 – Psychedelic experiences and their impact on perception and self-reflection.

Tone & Style

Language: Candid, irreverent, quick-witted, often profane.
Atmosphere: Unfiltered “greatest hang”—a mix of high-level philosophy and raunchy stand-up energy.
Alex’s Presence: Deeply intellectual while open to jokes; acts as both foil and collaborator in the crew’s wild thought experiments.

For Listeners: Why You Should Care

If you’ve ever wondered why you feel the way you do about controversial moral issues, or wanted to hear a philosopher go toe-to-toe with comedians on the big questions of life (with plenty of laughter and no sacred cows), this episode is a pitch-perfect masterclass in both ethical reasoning and the art of thoughtful conversation—with a big, highly entertaining Flagrant twist.