← Andy & Ari On3
Andy & Ari On3
Inside Alabama’s QB Competition: Will Kalen DeBoer select Austin Mack or Keelon Russell? Nick Saban's Schedule Fix | Florida QB1 Battle | New CFB Rules in 2026
01:10:33
Loading summary
Transcript318 lines
- [00:01]
Andy Staples
On Today's Andy and Ariane 3, presented by BET MGM Alabama coach Kaylin DeBoer updates the Crimson Tides quarterback competition. What is he looking for in the next QB one at Alabama? Plus, Nick Saban advocates for every power conference team to only play Power conference teams are and I imagine a world where that happens. Plus Florida coach John Sumrall updates his quarterback competition and leaves the door open for the possibility of Aaron Philo and Tramell Jones Jr. Playing at the beginning of the season. And we get a visit from the SEC Coordinator of officials John McDade to talk about all the new rule changes for College football in 2026. There's a big change to the targeting rule and there's a crazy weird special teams rule that is changing that I really hope we get to see some of. We'll talk about it all in today's Andy and Ariane 3, presented by BetMGM. This show is brought to you by BetMGM. All the spreads, all the win totals we discuss come from BetMGM. We're gonna talk about that Oklahoma win total today. We're probably gonna talk about that Tennessee one this week, maybe that Auburn one when they come on Tuesday of this week. It's SEC media day so we are talking about the future in in college football. But there is plenty going on in the present. The All Star breaks over baseball getting hot and heavy and you get a little bonus from BetMGM. A no sweat Home Run Token. Did your home run bet come up short thanks to this MLB no Sweat Home Run Token. You don't have to worry if your bet didn't clear the fences. Just activate your token when you bet on any player to hit a home run in a Major League Baseball game. If that player fails to go yard, you will get your stake back in bonus bets that is BetMGM. Make it legendary this week with BetMGM. See betmgm.com for terms 21 only. This promotional offer is not available in D.C. mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY RESET. Available in the US 8778 Hope NY or text Hope NY 467369 in New York 1-800-327-5050 in Massachusetts, 1-800-Bets off in Iowa, 1-800-981-0023 in Puerto Rico. First bet offer for new customers only if applicable. Subject to eligibility requirements. Rewards are non withdrawable bonus bets that expire in seven days. In partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Welcome to Andy and Arian3, presented by BetMGM here at SEC Media Days. And Alabama and Florida in the house on Wednesday morning. And Ari Kaylin aboard came and got peppered with quarterback questions. As one would expect when. When the Crimson Tide are in the throes of a major quarterback competition and there still is one heading into camp between Keelan Russell and Austin Mack.
- [02:58]
Ari Wasserman
Andy, you know, we've. We've descended so deep into the new era of college football that we forget that that's what media days used to be about. Like people.
- [03:07]
Andy Staples
Yes.
- [03:08]
Ari Wasserman
For coaches. Questions about their roster and their quarterback competition and their receiver competition and their depth issues. And now it's all these holistic views of the sport and nil and how things are changing and scheduling and all this stuff back like seven years ago, like media day was literally to go meet the teams. So, you know, and.
- [03:27]
Andy Staples
And Kayla board didn't get asked much about the senate bill, let's put it that way. It was a lot about his team.
- [03:34]
John McDade
Yeah.
- [03:34]
Ari Wasserman
And maybe, maybe that's like a good way to like judge how strong a team is going into the season. How much did the coach get asked specifically about their roster and if it was very little, that means they're probably in a pretty good spot.
- [03:46]
Kaylin DeBoer
But.
- [03:46]
Andy Staples
Well, you know, I think Alabama, Alabama is in a good spot, but there's some question marks. Obviously they revamped their offensive line. They brought an Adrian Clem to coach the offensive line, revamped the tight end room two. So this was a team that couldn't run the ball at all last year at the end. And they've got to figure out how to do that. And I think if they can, I'm not sure it matters who they play at quarterback. They're a playoff contending type team. But obviously the quarterback decision is going to play a huge role in what they are this season.
- [04:15]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah. And of course the type of quarterback that you have can conversely open up the run. So it seems to me that through the portals like landy and through the off season, they did a huge, you know, self check evaluation of what went wrong. And it seems like they've done everything they can to rectify the situation. I believe they have a new offensive line coach. They spent money in the portal to bring in offensive linemen in order to help fix that. But what we saw from Alabama on the ground last year was so anti what you would expect from Bama. I mean, like think about, you know, all the glory years of the past 15 years. Obviously you have the flashy receivers and the explosive offense. But like, what's the thing that you think about when you think of Bama? I think about Derek Henry, like that's, that's what comes to mind. And obviously in football you're not going to get very far if you can't run the ball. And we'll see how it goes for them this year.
- [05:04]
Andy Staples
Yeah, I mean it was jarring last year, watching at the end with them unable to run the ball and you and I have talked about this throughout the spring and into the summer. Does that influence their quarterback competition and the fact that they're keeping most of the stuff under wraps and we haven't gotten to see all of this. We don't know exactly how much better the offensive line is or if it's better at all. But I, you know, I would assume if you feel like it's better, then you're not as worried about whether your quarterback can, can help carry you in the run game. If you think it's going to be similar, then yeah, if you've got a quarterback who runs better than the other, then, then perhaps that's what you want to go with. And I found that interesting hearing Caleb talk today because. So Keelan Russell is the red shirt freshman. I don't even know if we're allowed to call them redshirt freshmen anymore, Ari, since there are no red shirts anymore.
- [05:55]
Ari Wasserman
What are they called now?
- [05:56]
Andy Staples
Second year freshman Keelan Russell's a sophomore, I guess. Is he? He gets five years to play. Five. So he's a sophomore and then he'll.
- [06:04]
Ari Wasserman
But so are people just seniors Twice super senior.
- [06:07]
John Sumrall
Okay.
- [06:08]
Andy Staples
Yeah, super senior, fifth year senior. I like super senior just because it sounds more like a superhero, but yeah, your seniors. But yeah. So Keela Russell's second year player didn't play last year. Austin Mack was the backup to Ty Simpson last year. Austin Mack signed with Kaylin Deborah Washington followed him to Alabama and has been waiting patiently for his chance to be the starting quarterback for a Kayla DeBoer team. So that's the situation they're in right now. The assumption is Keelan Russell is the better runner and if you look at his high school tape, you certainly saw him run a lot. But you know, Ari Kalin Bore said on Wednesday, do not sleep on Austin Mack's legs.
- [06:50]
John McDade
Larry Carlson History of Longhorn SPORTS COACH I was hoping maybe you could compare and contrast Keelan and Austin for us a little bit and where they are right now.
- [07:02]
Kaylin DeBoer
Yeah, guys that are in their different years as far as, you know, Austin going into his fourth Year, really the fourth year in this system, Keelan going into his second. So there's a little bit of a difference there. You know, I know that both of them would say what they know now versus what they even knew a year ago. I think especially in Keelan's case when it comes to just football knowledge of understanding of the offense, understanding of how you attack a defense, defensive structure, I think their, their reps have, you know, have helped them really take these big jumps, especially in the last five months. So. And I think last year helped them too with the reps that we did, we gave them. We're very intentional with how we distribute them. And so, you know, I think skill set wise, you're talking about, you know, a much taller, bigger, you know, quarterback with Austin. Austin, I think will surprise people when he really gets out and runs because he runs very well, better, I think, than most people think. Keelan is very versatile that way, you know, has created with his legs. You know, as a high school football player, you can see it at times it's hard to replicate when you're in practice and a guy's not live and what that might lead to on the football field in a game. But both of them are more than capable. I think they're high level, elite quarterbacks. Fortunately, we have both in our program and it's going to be a competition that's going to lead to a tough decision. It's one that we're fortunate to have and it's going to be one that when we do make the decision that we'll be confident we'll do a great job because they are two guys that are well respected by our entire football team because of how they work, who they are as people and the production and what they look like on the football field.
- [08:59]
Andy Staples
So that strikes me as Kaylin DeBoer saying, don't assume it's Keelan just because he's.
- [09:05]
Ari Wasserman
Because he can run.
- [09:06]
Andy Staples
Yeah, you think he's the better runner. And, you know, very, very clearly pointing out that Austin Max, in his fourth year in the system, that he knows quite a bit about what they want and what that they want out of that offense. But also the part about Keelan being difficult to simulate in practice or it being difficult to understand necessarily what Keelan can do in practice, I think that's real. I think when you have a guy who's a dynamic athlete, the quarterbacks aren't live at practice, you really don't know what you have it. And I go back, Ari, to 2012 and talking to Cliff Kingsbury about their preseason at Texas A and M when Johnny Manziel won the job, because Johnny won the job, but they weren't quite sure what they had in him. And remember they got their first game against Louisiana Tech canceled because or postponed to later in the season because of a hurricane. And so until they played four, week two, they had no idea what they had in Johnny Manziel and very quickly figured out, oh my God, this guy is magic with his legs. Yeah, I feel like it changed the way they call the offense rest of the season.
- [10:13]
Kaylin DeBoer
Yeah.
- [10:14]
Ari Wasserman
The more dynamic the player is, the harder it is to, to figure out what you have. Which means what, Andy? The only way you truly do figure that out is by putting them on the field. Yeah, I don't know how this is going to look or who's going to win the job, but like there is a, a possibility that Keelan gets into the game in the fall, does some things that makes your jaw drop and then all of a sudden you find yourself in a position where you have no choice but to go with that guy. I mean, Alabama is no stranger to having to make some pretty intense quarterback changes. You know, we saw one happen in the national championship. Yeah, yeah, I don't know what, I don't know what's going to happen. But I do know that like we always talk about how difficult quarterback decisions can be and I'm always the guy that's like, how can both players be the same exact, you know, evaluation, can't one be 5% better than the other? But I do find that this is probably one of the more difficult evaluations one, because I think too that we're finding that experience in college football is a huge deal now. And having somebody who's been in college football and has followed Kaylin DeBoer through multiple teams and system, I mean, in the same system, probably gives you some things from a, you know, experience standpoint that Russell just can't do without playing. So, you know, I don't know how you would feel about this, but do you go with the mega freak athlete that was a five star player and can do things that make your jaw drop or do you go with the guy that, I mean, frankly is a little bit more like Ty Simpson in the way that his career went out, you know, took his time, has been around the scene, developed and you know, Ty Simpson ultimately was a first round draft pick, let's not forget that.
- [11:46]
Andy Staples
So I find this to be a very good athlete. Yeah, Ty Simpson, also a very good athlete who did give them Some. Some running threat before he got hurt a little bit as a season. You know, late in the season, he's a little hobbled, especially that Georgia game in the SEC championship. So. But I, I don't know. Did you sense a lean one way or the other? Ari?
- [12:06]
Ari Wasserman
No. And I, I, you know, I've spent a long time trying to cover quarterback battles and, and the one thing that I think I've learned, Andy, and I don't know if you agree with this, is that if there is a lean, the lean isn't going to be revealed at the podium at SEC media days. You know, like, it's. They, if they, if they're interested in keeping it under wraps, which clearly they are, then they're going to veil it, they're going to mask it. And I think that, you know, we get to a point in the season where it's impossible to mask because we're watching them play the games. So, you know, when we're in July, late July, as we're heading into August, and in the season, I, I think that, you know, you have to wait to see who they name or what they do for the first game. But as the season unfolds, if both end up playing, I think that the fan's going to have a pretty good grasp of who should be playing, because quarterback, I think, is pretty easy to decipher once you see them playing against good competition on the field on Saturdays.
- [12:59]
Andy Staples
So they started off against East Carolina, which was a pretty good team in the American last year, and then it's at Kentucky, and then Florida State comes to them. So I feel like they kind of need to know by week two who they want to roll with. If you want to experiment, you may. You may want to swap. If you're going to swap them, do it against East Carolina. But I don't even know if they want to do that. I mean, when you've got one week of Runway, you may just want to pick a guy and see how that looks.
- [13:26]
Ari Wasserman
And is your. Sorry, is your gut telling you one or the other being there?
- [13:29]
Nick Saban
Not.
- [13:30]
Andy Staples
Not really, no. You know, I, I did think the. The way he sort of talked up Austin Mack, like, saying, hey, he's better runner than you think. Say it's the fourth year in the system. I do think that there's probably something to that and there's some loyalty there. And this is a guy who's followed him from Washington, who has waited, who's had chances to go elsewhere, who decided to stay. So I think probably
- [13:58]
John McDade
you.
- [13:58]
Andy Staples
You would naturally lean that way. But again, you saw Keelan Russell in the spring game and you've seen his high school tape already. Like if, if the guy is truly magic, you, you play the guy who is. Like, if you have a guy you think could be really special, you play that guy.
- [14:15]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah. I mean, anybody who's ever watched football or coach football knows that having an X factor difference maker at quarterback is night and day comparison to what kind of team you have. And that's not to say that Austin Mack isn't. But here's a, here's a fact. I think Keelan Russell displays and illustrates certain physical traits that frankly, Austin Mack probably doesn't have. So is the experience and loyalty and the calming factor that you bring to the offense based on how long you've been in school, a, a, a trait that's more important than, you know, dynamic, unpredictable results, like, I don't know, that's the coach's job to assess. But, you know, I do think at some point Keelan's going to have a really good college career. And you know, the thing that you have to also take into account that you didn't have to take into account seven, 10 years ago is that if they pick Austin Mack, what does that mean for Keelan's future? Like that, like that's there. There's more to it too than just who do you pick for, for the season this year? There's also long term ramifications that, you know, could come into play even though there's no portal window till after the season.
- [15:16]
Andy Staples
Yeah. All right, so let's hear from Kaylin DeBoer what he's looking for.
- [15:21]
Kaylin DeBoer
Good morning, coach.
- [15:22]
Nick Saban
A.P.
- [15:23]
Andy Staples
steadman, V.P. as we see it, beyond the throwing accuracy in the playbook, mastery, what are some of the game management and leadership traits you're relying on to determine who will get the first snap?
- [15:35]
Kaylin DeBoer
Yeah, a poise. Poise, you know, the guy can move the ball up and down the field. I really believe I said it earlier, but our core quarterbacks do have the belief and trust amongst our entire team. There's different ways where I've seen that, whether it was in the spring or as I've seen this through the summer. There's different conversations, there's different activities that we do where I really can get a good feel of it being genuine that our team trusts that whoever steps on the football field and takes those snapshots is going to be a guy that, and I think that's because they believe in both guys. You know, the, the poise, though, you know that's hard to create, and that's what we got to do with our entire football team, not just the quarterback position. Putting guys in spots where there is adversity, where there are moments that are, that are, that are tough and challenging, how they process. But again, that comes down to the poise that you got to have. We need the guy that can move the ball up and down the field the most efficiently and effectively and, you know, make the guys running better. But from a character standpoint, from a work ethic standpoint, and again, a production standpoint, as I mentioned earlier, these guys have the team, and now it's just
- [16:51]
Ari Wasserman
a matter of we're gonna have to
- [16:52]
Kaylin DeBoer
decide which one takes the first snap, as you mentioned.
- [16:56]
Andy Staples
And does the one who takes the first snap necessarily take all the snaps? Because I, I, I don't know. It sounds to me like I, that answer sounds like, hey, I'd love to see both these guys in a game.
- [17:08]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah.
- [17:08]
Andy Staples
But I don't know if you. Again, when you have East Carolina, which, again, was a pretty good American team last year. I know they lost some guys in the Portal, but if they're pretty good. I don't know if I want to be experimenting at quarterback, especially when I have an SEC game the next week. I kind of want to know at that point. And we're going to talk about Florida a little bit, where I think they do sort of have the Runway to do more experimenting with their situation, which is very similar to Alabama's situation as far as the two guys. So I don't know. I, Ari, I'm, I think it's going to be a tough decision for Kayla and Moore. I think he'd probably love if one of them would make it easy on him, but it doesn't sound like they have.
- [17:50]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah, I mean, I think it is interesting because you do mention having a Runway and how that can be beneficial if you want to do some musical quarterbacks. But, like, are you on potential upset alert for Alabama at Kentucky, Week two? Like, I don't, I don't, I don't know.
- [18:05]
Andy Staples
I want to, I want to see them play East Carolina first. But, but no, I'm excited to see what Kentucky is under Will Stein. I, I think we, we've talked about that, that they could be dramatically improved because they did go into the Portal and beef up their offensive line in a big way. They got Kenny Menchie and, and we don't know what Kenny is. But we do know that Kenny basically went to the wire with CJ Carr in the Notre Dame quarterback competition last year. So there's a chance like he's just, you know, that, that, that notch below CJ Carr as of this time last year, there's a chance. Kenny Minchi is a really, really good quarterback.
- [18:40]
Kaylin DeBoer
Yeah.
- [18:40]
Ari Wasserman
Guys, I gotta tell you this. I didn't have a great run last year with our picks and we know we will resume that once the season starts with our weekly pitch. If Kentucky's getting double digit points in this game, I'm already taking Kentucky. Like, I just want you to know that, like I'm on high alert for Kentucky. I don't know, maybe I'm a very.
- [19:00]
Andy Staples
Our guy, Nick Roush has already, has already put it out.
- [19:03]
Ari Wasserman
You already guaranteed the victory, didn't he?
- [19:04]
Andy Staples
Yeah. Nick works for KSR for Kentucky Sports Radio. So that I consider the source. But yeah, he's, he's put himself out there and he's, he understands the, the ridicule that could come his way from our friends at Bama online is, is a distinct possibility.
- [19:20]
Ari Wasserman
But Nick is somebody that thrives in the ridicule. Though he doesn't strike me as somebody that's going to lose any sleep over being ridiculed, so.
- [19:28]
Andy Staples
But I think the man who called Nico Yamaliaba a volleyball player who can't hit the go ball, I believe was the exact quote.
- [19:34]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah, I mean, maybe he's a prophet.
- [19:36]
Nick Saban
I don't know.
- [19:37]
Ari Wasserman
He turned out to be right for a while there.
- [19:40]
Andy Staples
All right, so from someone who may have poorly predicted the future in Nick to someone also named Nick, who I think probably can tell the future a little bit better than most people, it would be Nick Saban. So Nick Saban at SEC meeting days on Wednesday with his former team in town and was on the ESPN set and he proposed a very interesting idea because there's been a lot of talk about scheduling this week. Complaints about the SEC going to the nine game schedule, complaints that the Big Ten doesn't require a power of conference non conference opponent for its teams. Nick has a solution for that. Nick Saban says 12 game schedule, 12 power conference games. Roll that audio, River.
- [20:24]
Nick Saban
Yeah.
- [20:24]
Andy Staples
And if you make the SEC championship
- [20:26]
John McDade
game, obviously that's a 10th SEC game
- [20:27]
Ari Wasserman
and then you have your eyes on
- [20:29]
Andy Staples
the College Football Playoff. Nick, you've been a proponent of Moving to a 9sec game schedule for a while. What have your conversations been like about how things might change this year?
- [20:38]
Nick Saban
Well, I've been approaching proponent for 10 years, so it only took us 10 years to get to this. You know, first of all, players Love to play in competitive games, number one. Second, fans love to see competitive games. That's number two. And I also think that it's important that you give even a better opportunity to prove that you're the best team, that you belong in the SEC championship game. So I actually think we should play 12 games against Power 5. That's it Preach. Because it's a business and people want to see those games. TB wants to have that kind of inventory to show those games. So I think that's really, really important and I'm glad that we've gone to a nine game schedule. I think it'll be more interesting for the players and the fans.
- [21:25]
Andy Staples
So Nick Saban wants a. A super league, but A, a Power 4 Super League. So a said Power 5. And look, that's probably force a habit thinking, thinking the PAC 12 pack 12 is not a power conference anymore. But Ari, would you be down with this as a consumer? Is this something you'd want?
- [21:43]
Nick Saban
Where?
- [21:44]
Andy Staples
ACC, SEC, SEC, Big Ten, Big 12, all of them just played each other.
- [21:49]
Ari Wasserman
I don't know who wouldn't want this. I think that.
- [21:53]
Andy Staples
I know, I know fans of the group of six schools, but.
- [21:58]
Ari Wasserman
Yes, well, yes, I mean, but from a playoff national college football standpoint, it would be very helpful for a everybody to only play power teams so that the schedules are all even. It would also give us more context because you would inherently have a bunch of crossover between conferences which then give us more idea of who is superior. There would be no dud games. You know, there are a lot of, you know, I made a comment over the weekend about the World cup final on how boring the game was and I got a bunch of people responding. Well, there's a lot of 59 to three games in college football that sucked too. I think that we would probably get, we'd still get some of those games, but it wouldn't be as frequent. And I just think that like, you know, Nick Saban mirrored what you say on the show all the time, which is this is an entertainment product. And every week if your team is playing against a team that has power athletes on it and are on scholarship, you know, you're going to have favorites, you're going to have good teams and bad teams, but you're, you're hopefully going to get, you know, games that in theory should be or are more likely to be competitive than you do with four out of the 12. I mean, like think about it, Andy. We talk all the time about how it's July and it's like, oh, we're at SEC media days or you're, you know, interviewing this guy, or we're thinking about schedules. Oh my God, we're so close to football. It's like you only get 12 games a year. A whole year. You only get 12.
- [23:13]
Andy Staples
Waste them.
- [23:14]
Ari Wasserman
Why are we wasting a month of it? You know, I don't know what the fix is. I don't know how you would even do this. Like, like, I think people say things that sound great. I don't know what the application is in terms of what that means for the group of five. Also, schedules are, are, are scheduled out for eight, 10 years. How would you do it? I think is an interesting discussion, but in theory, of course, as a consumer of the sport, I would love that. And I also know, and, and we had this conversation with Brett McMurphy at Big 12 a few weeks ago. Andy, the group of five is really with a group of six, whatever it is, now is very big on playing in the same system. I think it means a lot to them financially. I think they get a kick out of potentially playing their way into a playoff spot. I mean, all those things about being in the system I think is valuable for them. But I also think too that things would just be healthier if we just called it what it is, which is two different levels of football. If you separated them, I don't know, like financially, what that would mean for some of those teams. Not get the huge gates or the huge revenue paychecks from going on playing these games on the road. But if there was a group of six, championship game and a power championship game, I think that would be healthy just in the sense that we would like. We don't have to pretend anymore. Everybody knows the score. Why are we pretending that it's the same thing?
- [24:33]
Andy Staples
Well, and, and the thing is, like you and I have talked about this. We both want this to be a wide spread, like lots of schools involved. We don't want it to be reduced to like a 32 team Super League. This would be the happy medium, I think. So that would be 68 teams because you're including Notre Dame in this bunch. So if you did the ACC, Big 12, Big 10, SEC, in Notre Dame, that's 68 teams. Like, that's pretty big. That's pretty broad. That covers most of the country.
- [25:02]
Ari Wasserman
It's the entire country. What area of the country is not covered that would be otherwise covered in Wyoming?
- [25:08]
Andy Staples
Yeah. The, the Dakotas, Wyoming. Yeah. New Hampshire.
- [25:13]
Ari Wasserman
I wonder, I do wonder how much of our listenership comes from those states now. I'm assuming that we get some. But like, does Wyoming families.
- [25:22]
Andy Staples
Yeah, they might be Nebraska fans too.
- [25:24]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah, like, and it's not. And it's not me saying that they shouldn't be in the system or that their teams are worth less, but if Wyoming plays Georgia on the road, we know what's going to happen already. Like, I just, I don't know. And this is me also understanding too that the group of six is a lot of schools that care a lot about football. There's high level players in those systems and those players actually feed into the power rosters now.
- [25:48]
Andy Staples
That's also part of the problem though. It's essentially become a farm system and it makes it very hard. Like if East Carolina were bringing back the team it had last year to go play Alabama in week one, we'd be talking about that as a potentially very fun Week one game.
- [26:03]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah, but their starting quarterback last year is the starting quarterback at Michigan State now. So like it's, it's Illinois.
- [26:09]
Andy Staples
He's at Illinois.
- [26:09]
Ari Wasserman
Illinois. I mean, sorry. Yeah, he started at Michigan State. My bad.
- [26:12]
Andy Staples
Yeah. Kate Hauser. So. But that, that. Exactly. And they're starting left tackles now. The starting left tackle at NC State. So if it were the way it used to be, where they could retain those rosters, then I might not say this, but. But now that it is this way, that the, the line of delineation is so clear, I do think that it would be probably more fun for the majority of the audience if it were just those six. See, 68 is fine with me. It's when you go down, you want to drop it down to 40 or when you drop it down to 32 or whatever. That's.
- [26:47]
John Sumrall
Yeah.
- [26:47]
Ari Wasserman
All the teams that are currently in the power remain in that league. Yeah, there are no power teams left out. But here's the other thing, Andy too, that I find to be quite funny. The Group of five, when it was the group of five before the playoff system or before they were guaranteed a spot and before nil, actually I believe produced teams that were very good or, or good enough to, to compete.
- [27:15]
Andy Staples
Boise State from 2006 through 2010, the 2017 and 2018 UCF teams that were in, in like, those were really, really good teams.
- [27:25]
Ari Wasserman
Those teams might not have been able to beat the Alabamas of those years, but they certainly were as good, if not better than the majority of the power five those years. So it used to happen, but then the system changed and we guaranteed the group of five a spot in the playoff at the very same time. That we took away their ability to retain their players. So it's almost like, it's like a joke where it's like finally they're. They have a seat at the table, but it's like their chair is wobbly. Like it doesn't. It's not fair to them.
- [27:54]
Andy Staples
So like, like John Summer.
- [27:56]
John Sumrall
Yeah.
- [27:56]
Andy Staples
John Summerall is here today. Coached Tulane last year. He got him into the playoff. They won the American, but he was talking about playing Ole Miss and they ended up, they actually played Ole Miss, the non conference, last year. They remember, this is Tulane team that beat the ACC champion Duke in a non conference game. But he's talking about playing Ole Miss, which is a legit, you know, good playoff team. And they played him in the regular season and then played him in the first round of the playoff. And he goes, they beat the. Out of us in the, in the first meeting. And then they had another coach and they beat the. Out of the second meeting. Like, yeah, just. Well, it's like there was not gonna be a chance in that game.
- [28:30]
Ari Wasserman
We watched the JMU game together. In fact, we were waiting in the Jamie Oregon game.
- [28:34]
John Sumrall
Yep.
- [28:35]
Ari Wasserman
And it's just like JMU was a very good G6 team last year. Oregon played them like it was, it was, it wasn't even a. You know, and I know they made things interesting a little bit from a scoreboard perspective in the second half and they wouldn't go away. So kudos to them. But Oregon, every single play was a 40 yard gain. Like, it's just like it wasn't football like in the way that. So if JMU won the national championship of their level, would that be more satisfying than getting boat race by Oregon in the first round of a playoff game that nobody's watching because there's an NFL game on at the same time.
- [29:04]
Andy Staples
Yeah.
- [29:05]
Ari Wasserman
Like, it doesn't make any sense to me. So.
- [29:06]
Andy Staples
And just here's the thing, Producer river, can you throw up Alabama schedule for us? Because. All right, let's look at Alabama schedule. So I mentioned East Carolina and when we mentioned, obviously they got Florida State in week three. That's their, that is their power conference non conference opponent. And then they play Chattanooga in week 11. So let's say this is. You wouldn't be playing anybody in week 11. And by the way, the SEC has told them to all go away from the FCS team in week 11 going forward, so we're not going to see that much anymore anyway. But let's say the first three weeks, let's say. So you move Kentucky back into the back half of the schedule. And then let's say the first three weeks, instead of East Carolina and Chattanooga and Florida State were Illinois, Baylor and Florida State.
- [29:53]
Ari Wasserman
So much more entertaining. So much more entertaining. You know, and the other thing, too, Andy, you mentioned earlier on this offseason that the sketch. The week one schedule is a joke. If you go look at the week one schedule of what we get this year, if everybody was playing a Power 4 opponent that week, they would make it virtually impossible for that to ever occur again. There will never be another wasted week in the history. Like, every slate would be loaded every single week.
- [30:19]
Andy Staples
But, you know, yeah. Big new kickoff week one is North Texas. Indiana. Yeah, that's pathetic and should never happen.
- [30:27]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah, it could be Indiana, Florida State or something like that would be fun. Or Indiana. Even Indiana. Wake Forest is better.
- [30:35]
Andy Staples
I mean, Ari, Indiana, Texas Tech. Yeah, who wouldn't watch that?
- [30:42]
Ari Wasserman
And, like, Also, the Big 12 is constant. Like, you know, the thing that. That sticks out to me, Andy, is like, you hear things like, from Pat Norduzzi. We didn't talk about this on the show, but he said this in ACC media days last week, where there's a lot of this theory. It's always ACC is better than the Big Ten. I've been coaching in this. Or skill. Whatever he said. He said something in that. In that vein.
- [31:00]
Andy Staples
It's been a long time since he coached in the Big Ten. By the way,
- [31:04]
Ari Wasserman
the Big 12 also is fighting an inferiority complex to a certain extent, in terms of. Of being viewed as equals. Don't you think Baylor would like to play Bama
- [31:16]
Andy Staples
this year? So, yeah, yeah.
- [31:18]
Ari Wasserman
I'm saying, like, in these. In the. You don't think that. That Houston would like to play Ole Miss? Like, I don't know.
- [31:25]
Andy Staples
Absolutely.
- [31:25]
Ari Wasserman
I think that it would be a really. It would be a net positive for the viewership standpoint. I think that we would get a more thorough evaluation of the resumes. And I think that the playoff. There will always be controversy and disagreements because that's the way the sport's set up. But I think that we would have a better understanding and a more sturdy foundation to select from with that sample size of information. So.
- [31:47]
Andy Staples
And it would be a more entertaining product and it would not. See, the. The thing I worry about is any sort of super league situation, and this is. This is a super league situation that we're talking about, but I don't think it takes away the. The fabric of college football. I don't think it takes away the. The lifeblood of college football, which is. No, all over the country, all kinds of different universities. 68 is plenty. 68 is a good number of teams for that.
- [32:14]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. And I also don't know if Washington fans are gonna be like, oh, yeah, we're not playing Amarillo State this year. Like, I don't think that, like anyone's gonna miss that.
- [32:26]
Andy Staples
No, no, no. Well, that one's going to be weird because Washington State and Oregon State wouldn't play Oregon and Washington in that scenario.
- [32:33]
John Sumrall
Yeah.
- [32:33]
Andy Staples
And that's, that's weird.
- [32:35]
Ari Wasserman
What do you do with those two, by the way? Can we, like we've never addressed this on the show.
- [32:38]
Andy Staples
Do you want to grandfather him back in?
- [32:41]
Ari Wasserman
I wouldn't be against it. Would you be against it if to get it to 70? Nice round number.
- [32:46]
Andy Staples
Just tell, tell the Big 12 they have to take them and, and grandfather him in.
- [32:50]
Ari Wasserman
I mean, listen, if we ever get to a place where that's the case and that is the Super League, I think it would be cool to put back teams that were, you know, traditionally in that position. They're only in this position because of circumstance that was out of their control, not because they didn't care about football enough. Right. I don't know.
- [33:04]
Andy Staples
I'm not, I'm not opposed. I'm not opposed. Not opposed at all. That's a nice number.
- [33:09]
Ari Wasserman
You know, and then we could really. What if you turned every single group of five champion in their own playoff bracket into a five year period where they get to be in the, in the bigger league? Well, there's an actual reward for that.
- [33:23]
Andy Staples
Promotion and relegation would solve so many issues. I just don't think it's going to happen because it does. It doesn't exist anywhere in American sports like it exists in the, in English football because it always existed in English football. I don't know that you could get people in American sports to go for the people who run it to go for it. Even though it would be highly entertaining. Because what it does is it essentially creates a race at the bottom of your league as well. That's just as interesting as the one at the top.
- [33:53]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah, but I think that the way that you could solve the G6 woes of not being involved in the system is by loosely involving them somehow.
- [34:03]
Andy Staples
It would be great. But I, I just, again, I also don't even know from a timeline people to do it.
- [34:07]
Ari Wasserman
Could you shorten their season? And I know this might be a safety issue, but I'm just spitballing. It's a Podcast don't shoot me. If you shorten their season by four weeks or three weeks, did an expanded playoff for them, then the winner of the G6 playoff is the 12 seat of the, of the, of the big one. So that they're still loosely involved and everybody still has a seat at the table. Like, I don't know that maybe that's too many games. I didn't go to, you know, medical schools. Not a doctor. But is there a way that you could loosely include them still without having to bog down our schedule?
- [34:38]
Andy Staples
I think the promotion and relegation thing would be the way to do it. I think that would be the best way. I just don't know if you could ever make them, make them do it. That's like.
- [34:47]
Ari Wasserman
Because financially you. It's a big difference between playing on, on certain stages. Like the television money.
- [34:53]
Andy Staples
It doesn't match up anymore in terms of numbers. Like, because you can't assign one league, one G6 league to one Power 4 league. Because it doesn't. But it'd be great if like for example, the best team in the Mountain west got the last spot in the Big 12 and the last team in the Big 12 had to go to the Mountain West. The, the best team in the Sun Belt got the last spot in the SEC and the number 16 team in the SEC had to go to the Sun Belt. Like it doesn't have to be like Premier League where it's, where it's three.
- [35:21]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah.
- [35:21]
Andy Staples
It can just be one.
- [35:23]
Ari Wasserman
And there can't be like a marketing partnership or a deal that these conferences make amongst each other to swap member institutions. I don't know. Like, they can figure it out.
- [35:31]
Andy Staples
Share referee, share officials now. So like it's, it's doable.
- [35:36]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah. I don't know. Do you think that if we got to a place where Nick Saban's thing came true that people would still watch action? I would, I would. But do you think the regular fan would. Do you think that the, the loose affiliation of the Mac in the regular system makes people more likely to watch them on Wednesday night?
- [35:53]
Andy Staples
I think the people who watch action will still watch action. I don't think there's anything forcing them to watch action now. So I don't think it would change that much.
- [36:05]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah, as long because I can think
- [36:06]
Andy Staples
it was like, still be good tv. Like, listen, the championship is the, is the second division in English soccer. They have teams that have huge followings. They get sellout crowds at their games. It's not like they're treated as second class citizens.
- [36:22]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah. I just, I wonder if there would be more interest if there was a championship run for them so it doesn't feel like they're playing for nothing.
- [36:32]
Andy Staples
It's a good question. And, and the thing is they'd still be used as a farm system, so I, I don't think it would change that at all.
- [36:39]
Ari Wasserman
But they also would be able to get players that can't hack it in the bigger leagues. It's the same deal, so.
- [36:44]
Andy Staples
Exactly.
- [36:44]
Ari Wasserman
Or get in trouble or need a fresh start. So they would still get right trickle down too. But like I would watch the G5 National Championship game in playoff okay, you
- [36:55]
Andy Staples
guys let us know. Hit us up. You know, Friday's Dear Andy, Dear Ari, if you have questions about this or ideas that you think would work better than this, hit us up. Andy Staples on3gmail.com re.wassert@on3.com I I'd love to know what you guys think about this too.
- [37:10]
Ari Wasserman
I don't have a made a big relationship with your co host on Yahoo's Football Inquirer, Stephen Godfrey, but I know that he's a fan of Group of Five football. You know him better than I do and maybe I'll ask him one day if I see him. But if he heard things that were just coming out of my mouth, what do you think he would say?
- [37:27]
Andy Staples
I will pose this question to him on tomorrow's show. This will actually make a good segment on tomorrow's show. And I do think I know what he's gonna say because five years ago he said, absolutely not. No way. They the, these schools need to be in the fbs. They need to be in the same subdivision as the big schools. He would not say that now. I think he's watched those rosters get pillaged over and over again, and he is realistic about it. Like, he's, he's kind of where we are. Like, don't make this a 28 team super league. Please make this as big as you can, but as big as you can. Might be 70, might be 68.
- [38:06]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah. Yeah. Just because, like, I know they're like, I'm gonna probably be on a Reddit thread later and everyone's gonna call me a fake fan. So, like, I, I know, I know there's a certain segment of people who are melting right now, and I'm not trying to be offensive, but I just am not the type of person that pretends I'm not a pretender. They are not the same level whether you know how bad you want it. They're Just not.
- [38:27]
Andy Staples
Yeah, they're really not now and that's, it's just the truth.
- [38:31]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah.
- [38:33]
Andy Staples
So that would make schedules very hard by the way.
- [38:36]
Ari Wasserman
And it's also exactly what Nick Saban just said. If it was the same level he wouldn't have said this.
- [38:41]
Andy Staples
He just said exactly, exactly. So, so that would make, that would make schedules very hard in the power leagues. Like we, we'd have to adjust our expectations because there would rarely be an undefeated team in that, in that scenario you'd have to, you know, you'd have to accept that 8 and 4 is usually a pretty good season in, in that, in that kind of format. But I thought it was interesting. Let's, let's hear from Florida coach John Sumrall because I, I just after hearing everybody complain about scheduling and SEC coach is saying I don't want to play a nine game schedule or I'm mad because now I have to play a nine game schedule. But Big Ten schools don't have to schedule a power conference a team in the non conference like I do. John Sumrall, a little breath of fresh air. The new Florida coach. Here's what he thinks about the nine game SEC schedule.
- [39:28]
John Sumrall
I know a lot of the coaches. Yeah we'll put, you know, I wasn't in the room when I was conversation we had. I wasn't in this league yet. We're going to play anybody, anywhere, anytime really put our schedule.
- [39:40]
Nick Saban
We're going to play.
- [39:41]
John Sumrall
I'm not going to whine and complain about being an SEC head football coach.
- [39:46]
Andy Staples
I like that. Now maybe five years in he, he'll be willing to whine and complain about it but, but I appreciated that, that outlook on it.
- [39:56]
Ari Wasserman
He, he has the,
- [40:00]
Andy Staples
well you're going to see that. So interestingly enough hearing him talking about his quarterback situation, we, we talked about Kaylin aboard the Alabama quarterbacks. So John Sumrall on the horns of a similar dilemma where he's got two guys. One has played a little bit at a high level but, but not a ton. The other one's just been a backup and so they've got to pick a quarterback. So they have Aaron Filo who was Georgia Tech's backup to Haynes King the last two years. So Philo comes with Buster Faulkner who is Florida's new offensive coordinator who was Georgia Tech's offensive coordinator and Philos played in some fairly high leverage games but as a freshman. So Haynes King had some injury stuff and Philo had to play against Virginia Tech. He played quite a bit in that. Remember the win against Miami, where Mario wouldn't take a knee. Milo played, played a significant amount in that game. And then he also played against NC State, so he's played a little bit. Tramell Jones Jr. Was the backup to DJ Lagway last year. He took most of the first team reps in the off season because DJ was hurt, but he was just basically the backup. I mean, he came in. In the Kentucky game. You saw him a little bit last year, but you haven't seen either of these guys extensively. The thought was, if Philo's following Faulkner, he's probably the guy. But just from talking to people around the program, you know, they got there, they didn't know much about Tramell Jones Jr. But very quickly, the players on the team said, hey, this guy's a dude. There were other schools sniffing around him that were potentially going to give him a chance to be the starter. And they met him, and Summerall and his staff were like, hey, we love this guy. This guy's cool. Let's give him a shot. And I think you saw in the spring, they both look pretty close. And so now they've got to figure out what they're going to do.
- [41:50]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah, I love these pure quarterback battles, Andy, but, you know, it's just so much more difficult, I bet, when you are so dead set on the necessity of making a good first impression. Right. Like, it's not just who's your quarterback, but, like, Florida fans are going to pile into their opener, and I know that it's not a big, huge game against an SEC for Atlantic.
- [42:15]
John Sumrall
Yeah.
- [42:16]
Ari Wasserman
People want to see a difference immediately from the first quarter, the first drive. So, you know, obviously first impressions aren't necessarily the most important thing in coaching because you're. You got a pretty long Runway. But you don't want to mess up your first quarterback decision going into your new tenure at a place that's dying to win big again.
- [42:35]
Andy Staples
Well, here's the thing. So we asked him about the quarterback situation. I get the sense that he's not. He may not be making that decision right off the bat. Here's John Summer. I'll talk about that. Your timeline in terms of the fall,
- [42:47]
Ari Wasserman
in terms of how you want to
- [42:48]
Andy Staples
make a decision on that.
- [42:49]
John Sumrall
Yeah, I don't have a timeline. You know, I've met with both those guys individually. I'll meet with them before we start training camp together. I'll meet with the whole room. Just because you start game one doesn't mean you start game 12. I don't. I don't have a timeline. My timeline, it may be five minutes for the game before anybody finds out. I mean, I just to me and you know, my first year as head coach at Troy, we used two quarterbacks the entire year. Not necessarily by design, because we had to, because one of them would get hurt and one of them, another would get hurt. Then the guy would come back healthy and then he wouldn't play good. And we put the other guy in and it's like, I don't love the quarterback shuffle deal. But I don't have a blueprint for how it's going to go. We're going to do what we have to do to try to help position Florida football to win games. Both guys have been great. They live from the same rack together in the weight room. They push each other, they challenge each other, they support each other, they get each other's back. They're going to fight for each other the quickest way. And they know this quickest way either one of them could lose a job is be a bad teammate. And so they're great teammates. They've been awesome with each other. And then they quarterback room's been great. The whole, the whole room's been awesome.
- [43:58]
Andy Staples
Did you, did you get a little like beat of cold sweat when he said it might be five minutes before the first game like going back recovering Ohio State in 2015?
- [44:07]
John Sumrall
Yeah.
- [44:07]
Ari Wasserman
Were you in the tunnel? I've asked you this a hundred times. I just can't remember. Were you in the tunnel?
- [44:12]
Andy Staples
I was standing on the Virginia Tech sideline when he made that decision. I was.
- [44:16]
Ari Wasserman
My coworker, my co worker Douglas Maurice, I believe was in the tunnel when he told Cardell he was starting.
- [44:24]
Andy Staples
It just blows my. But, but you know, I, I get the sense. And, and we talked about the Alabama situation where they play East Carolina and then they have to go play an SEC game at Kentucky Week 2. Florida has a different situation. They play Florida Atlantic first, then they play Campbell, which is an FCS team. Go Fighting Camels. And then they play at Auburn in the to open SEC play. So I do think they have enough where they can experiment a little bit. They can play both of them and if one of them is clearly better than the other, then it doesn't matter if that's who took the first snap in the Florida Atlanta game. That's who you start against Auburn.
- [45:00]
John Sumrall
Yeah.
- [45:00]
Ari Wasserman
Are we back in a place where Florida can take for granted an in State Florida G6 School?
- [45:08]
Andy Staples
No, I guess not.
- [45:09]
Ari Wasserman
Too soon.
- [45:12]
Andy Staples
It wasn't a good idea to do that last year, was it? Yeah, no, this is a very good point. And Zach Kidley, fau, very good coach. Like him a lot. So yeah, I should not sleep on that group either. But I do think that it's possible you have a chance to look at both of those guys and get a look at them, especially in the Campbell game, in game situations and, and how they work together with the offensive line, which. The offensive line is a little bit of a question mark. They still haven't quite figured out their. Their. The five man combo they're going to use. That's probably the biggest question mark on the team other than quarterback. And so I. You want to see like, you know, when they're handed, obviously they're going to hand it to Jaden Ball and he's going to run really well. But they've got some great receivers in this group. The Dallas Wilson, Brunell Brown III. Eric Singleton Jr. Comes in from Auburn, late of Georgia Tech. He played for Buster Faulkner at Georgia Tech. So they got some dudes that can really electrify. The question is getting them the ball. The question is blocking for the person who gets in the ball. And I would like to see all of that working together in a game situation because I feel that would be more valuable.
- [46:21]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah, I think the hardest part about it because obviously game situation, we talked about it too with Bama, is sometimes crucial to knowing what you have. The question that happens once that occurs is when do you cut it off? Like when. When do you decide, okay, we're going with this guy. And then if you're. But then also if you're doing it against other opponents that are overmatched, you might not be able to get a sense of who these guys are. And then you might need to. I think that like, if you. If it bleeds into the season. The thing that happened at Ohio state back in 2015 was anytime things weren't working, which happens all the time in football, really good teams have four or five drives in a row that aren't working. You always have it in the back of your head as a coach. You're like, well, maybe we'll go with the other guy. And then that becomes a disease that you can't escape or a virus. So like that's the only slippery slope deal that you have. But you have to like have a clear line of cutoff where this is our guy. And even if we only have three points in the third quarter, like this is our guy through and through till the end because you can't play the musical chairs game with the quarterback. Room or things fall apart. Like, Andy, you covered a team at Florida that won a national championship with two quarterbacks. Right. But like, that system.
- [47:33]
Andy Staples
Yeah, yeah. This is 06 with Chris Leak and Tim Tebow. They had very clearly defined roles. That's not what we're talking about here.
- [47:40]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah. And I, And I don't know, has there been a team that has won a national title with two quarterbacks throughout the year that, like, have. Where you don't know who's going in? Like, I know that, like, Joe Germain and Stanley Jackson had that deal with Ohio State.
- [47:56]
Andy Staples
Closest thing I can think of, the Joe Jermaine, Stanley Jackson thing is the closest I can think of. You had. Was it 07 LSU with. With Ryan Peralu.
- [48:07]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah.
- [48:08]
Andy Staples
On the other quarterback. But they, they would switch up a little bit. But, you know, you go to 2011 and they had, they had a problem doing that at lsu. Like, they changed quarterbacks toward the end of the season and it backfired on the national title game. So. Yeah, I, I don't know. I don't know that you want that, but I, I think you just want to know who the guy is by the time you play Auburn. I think that's. That's the critical piece. And, you know, Summer, I'll said it, Just because you start game one doesn't mean you're gonna start game 12. And he talked about times in his coaching history where he's had to. Had to deal with that, because his first year at Troy in 2022, Gunner Watson was his guy, but he got hurt and he had to play Jared Deggy. And then when he got to Tulane, Darian Mensah was sitting, I think, third or fourth on the depth chart that he was not one anybody thought was going to play that season. And he ends up starting the whole season. And then last year he had an open competition in the spring at Tulane, and then Jake Red Sliff becomes available and he takes him and starts him. So this is a. This is not a guy who's terribly precious about any of this stuff.
- [49:12]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah. Yeah. If you're a North Carolina fan. I'm sorry that we had to play these clips the day after our conversation yesterday. Like, that's just rough. Rough go of it. But, yeah, I feel like he. He passes all the tests for me. I. I think he's. He's a football guy through and through, and he has the it factor. So we'll see what happens at Florida, but it's going to be fun to watch.
- [49:34]
Andy Staples
He's. He's answered the questions very well so far. Again, the only answers that actually matter are the ones on Saturdays in September, October and November. So we'll see how he does there. But but so far so good. John Sumrall and this decision, I think will will go a long way toward defining what those Saturdays look like. So he's going to stretch it out and I again, I will not be surprised if we see both of those guys play in the first two games. And then, and then you get a kind of real decision for the Auburn game. Ari Next we got to talk about new rules for the 2026 season with SEC coordinator officials John McDade. But first, these words from Zen AI I want to talk about Zen AI. Zen AI is the home of Vibecasting, a new way to capture and share conversations. In the same way vibe coding apps like Lovable and Claude Cowork made it possible for just about anyone regarding regardless of coding skills to build their big ideas. Zen AI helps anyone to turn a conversation into something worth sharing, a podcast, a real a TikTok. No production skills required. At the heart of it, Zen AI is an AI producer. The producer handles the edit from audio cleanup to the creation of share ready clips. You collaborate with your AI producer conversationally make audio and video edits just by chatting in plain English. So basically ZNai is paying new Vibecasters to create their first Vibecast. You create a sportscast about your favorite team and with Vibecasting you get paid to do it. So here's how you do it. Zen AI is an invite only beta right now. So you join the waitlist today and you get a chance at early access. So you go to Zen AI that's Z E N AI to sign up or you can head to our show Notes for the direct link. That's Zen AI. Z E N AI. Okay Ari, now it's time for one of my favorite segments of every year where we bring on John McDade, the SEC's coordinator of officials to to talk about the new rules in college football. There's, there's a change to the targeting rule. There's a change that really pisses off the special teams coordinators about how you have to line up on punt. And then there is a weird special teams change that John is going to explain to me that I hope we all understand at the end of it and I really hope we see this play. But let's talk to John McDade. We are joined by the SEC Coordinator officials John McDade. And so you guys have told us because we look at the numbers. You guys have told us. This is one of your favorite segments every year where John comes in and we talk about all the new on field playing rules in college football.
- [52:21]
John McDade
So I need them to tell me because I don't know if I should
- [52:24]
Andy Staples
believe you or not. No, it's true. It's the craziest thing that. So I think the first time we did it was my first year at on three. So it would have been when the Media Days was in Nashville and you and I did a video together and it came out and some people watched it. And then a month later one of my bosses says this video that came out a month ago is going crazy. I don't even remember what the rule change was that year. I don't remember it being anything significant. It's funny, the only thing I remember
- [52:54]
John McDade
about that is we had a, with the Nashville Sports Commission, a terrific concert planned for Manila, Broadway. They got washed out by a thunderstorm. That's all I remember from that.
- [53:04]
Andy Staples
Listen, we're here in Florida and I, I am, I am Florida man. I'm used to everything being washed out by a thunderstorm. That's. That's just how life goes. But I. This is an interesting. Because I feel like there are a couple really interesting rule changes. The targeting rule, which I'm sure you hear more about than anything. I thought they did a really good job threading the needle this year.
- [53:25]
John McDade
Yeah, I, I think maybe the primary reason we hear so much about targeting was addressed by the rule change. We just had it. There are very few rules in the rule book that as a part of the discipline, as a part of the penalty, we take away player eligibility. Yeah. So what we've done. If you're a first time offender, you no longer are subject, if you have, if you foul in the second half to having a first half carry you over.
- [53:49]
Andy Staples
Right. So this will be. Xavier Lucas, who plays corner for Miami, had to miss the first half of the national championship.
- [53:54]
John McDade
Correct.
- [53:55]
Andy Staples
Because of that. Yeah. So he, and I believe that was his first defense. So he would have been fine to play the whole game in that situation. So is it. So first offense, you're out of the game and it's a 15 yard penalty. But even if it was the third quarter, you're not suspended for the first half. The next.
- [54:11]
John McDade
That is correct.
- [54:12]
Andy Staples
Second offense, second event, no matter when
- [54:15]
John McDade
you foul, you're going to be out for the first half of the next game.
- [54:18]
Andy Staples
Okay.
- [54:19]
John McDade
So even, even if you target it in the first quarter and you miss three and A half quarters of that game, you're going to miss the first half of the next.
- [54:26]
Andy Staples
Right. And that's to be a little more punitive because you're trying to. Because you get head hunting out of it.
- [54:30]
John McDade
Yeah. Because you just committed the second offense.
- [54:33]
Andy Staples
Right. And that's, that was my thing. I'm so glad that they did that because you give a little grace to the guy who's just trying to make a tackle. The ball carrier moves in a certain way, they wind up colliding head to head and it's, it becomes a targeting foul.
- [54:48]
John McDade
So this is the statistics behind it that, that largely got the commissioners comfortable with considering, by the way, experimental change.
- [54:57]
Andy Staples
Okay.
- [54:57]
John McDade
Experimental rule change. They're going to go back and look at the data at the end of the season to see if they want to extend experiment additional season or maybe officially adopt it. But what the statistics are, over the last five seasons we've averaged just under six second time offenders. We haven't had a third or more time offender at all across five years. So what does that mean? I don't have the specific number of my fingertips, but all the targeting fouls you've seen across all of FBS for the last five seasons, 95 plus percent of them are first time offenders.
- [55:31]
Andy Staples
Which means if we're going back to when the rule was actually implemented, it worked like it's taken headhunting out of the game.
- [55:38]
John McDade
I think these statistics are evidence of the efficacy of the rule subjectively. And you remember the games, the stuff we used to see in the secondary in particular. Oh yeah. Trying to, trying to make a receiver pay.
- [55:49]
Andy Staples
Yeah.
- [55:50]
John McDade
Make it a catch. We just don't see that anymore.
- [55:52]
Kaylin DeBoer
Yeah.
- [55:52]
Andy Staples
And I'm glad for that because that was something that was going to hurt the sport long term if that kept going.
- [55:57]
John McDade
That's correct.
- [55:58]
Andy Staples
And I now what, what drove me crazy though is you'd have penalties. And I, the, the one I remember distinctly as I was covering the Fiesta bowl when Clemson played Ohio State. This is at the 2019 season. Shaun Wade gets, gets hit with one, which it was by the letter of law. And I actually saw Rogers Redding who was the coordinating, you know, national coordinator officials. He was at the game and he explained to me 100% that is by the letter of the law. But it was one of those that clearly he had no malicious intent and it changed the game and I hated that. And the idea of somebody having to sit another half in an additional especially playoff game just drove me nuts. So I'm, I'm glad that now if, if you haven't done that, if you just find yourself in that situation, at least you're not missing that first half of the next game.
- [56:45]
John McDade
Agreed.
- [56:46]
Andy Staples
So, yeah, it's. It is amazing because when you watch those old clips from the 90s, heck, different sport.
- [56:54]
John McDade
Just. Just human torpedoes going after the head, neck area of an opponent. Yeah.
- [56:59]
Andy Staples
And. And you know, because you were on the field as a referee when the, when the rule was implemented, right?
- [57:05]
John McDade
Yeah. I think the rule was implemented in 2007 or 2008, is my recollection. Absolutely. And it went through various iterations. Yeah. We have a whole segment of our fandom that probably don't realize it wasn't always a reviewable aspect of the game.
- [57:20]
Andy Staples
Right.
- [57:20]
John McDade
We made the call on the field and that was it.
- [57:22]
Kaylin DeBoer
Yeah.
- [57:22]
John McDade
When it was first came out, it didn't have the disqualification. We added that later on. We've come a long way and probably the long. We've come a long way in two ways. The players have come a long way because they've changed their behavior. We're also much more consistent. Now, I understand that's controversial for me to say that.
- [57:41]
Andy Staples
Right.
- [57:42]
John McDade
Because all the time we'll make a. What, enforce a targeting call because we confirm it or replay or we'll overturn it. We don't agree that it's targeting and people don't understand. It's not the most easy rule to understand. But to us officials, we are very much more consistent than we were.
- [58:01]
Andy Staples
Because you have the indicators and you have the, the small.
- [58:05]
Ari Wasserman
Right.
- [58:05]
Andy Staples
Exactly.
- [58:06]
Kaylin DeBoer
Yeah.
- [58:06]
Andy Staples
So there are, There are written instructions, essentially. And I, I feel like the broadcast does a decent job. They try to explain it every time, but it's still hard.
- [58:17]
John McDade
There's some. There's some that, that. That get it more than others. Yeah, they're all trying. Don't get me wrong. I'll give a shout out to Greg McElroy. Greg McElroy has a fair amount of our broadcast in the Southeastern Conference. He really has done a really good job of understanding how to deconstruct the play and figure out the framework of judgment we're using about whether it is or is not targeting.
- [58:36]
Andy Staples
Now, the other one, that is a change that if you are a normal college football fan, this did not register at all with you, and this was changed. If you are a special teams coach, you got so mad and, oh, did we hear it from the special teams coaches? And. And I laughed and laughed because it was one of those. That I missed it in their press release when it came out.
- [58:57]
John McDade
Yep.
- [58:58]
Andy Staples
And then heard the coaches complaining and I was like, okay, I got to go back and figure out what they're complaining about. And I'm just like, they're. What are we doing? So I want you to explain. And you. I don't. And you can't do the entire history lesson.
- [59:11]
Kaylin DeBoer
No, no, no.
- [59:11]
John McDade
I won't even try.
- [59:12]
Andy Staples
But to explain. The new punt formation rules punt.
- [59:18]
John McDade
Just like any play from scrimmage has the requirement of having 4, 550 through 79 players that are linemen ineligible to declare themselves as being ineligible.
- [59:27]
Andy Staples
Yes.
- [59:28]
John McDade
With the evolution of the game, those offensive linemen were no longer starting in the late 60s, going into 70s. We're no longer the ideal athletes.
- [59:36]
Andy Staples
Yeah.
- [59:36]
John McDade
To run 45 yards downfield and make
- [59:39]
Andy Staples
an open field tackle.
- [59:40]
John Sumrall
Yeah.
- [59:40]
John McDade
And so we created a numbering exception rule in the early 80s and it worked pretty darn well for us for about 20, almost 30 years. But what's happened recently, there's been an evolution in the punt game. We start having two and three person shields in front of the kicker that can protect that kicker. We don't need to do it at
- [59:59]
Andy Staples
the line of scrimmage. Yeah. They're not on the line of scrimmage. The shield, the personal protectors are kind of halfway between the snapper and the punter.
- [60:06]
John McDade
We start having spread punt formations, what I call exotic formations. And because we were giving them the numbering exceptions, you didn't have to have 50 through 79s. You could have others.
- [60:17]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah.
- [60:18]
John McDade
It was becoming too confusing who the ineligibles were. And we felt things had gotten to the point where not only was it upsetting the advantage. Disadvantage balance between the kicking team and the receiving team, it was also confusing the officials.
- [60:31]
Andy Staples
Right.
- [60:31]
John McDade
And so we, what we said is if you're going to use numbering exceptions, it must be in a two by two with the snapper, a guard and a tackle on the left side of the snapper, guard and attack on the right side of the snapper. And that's where you're ineligible.
- [60:43]
Andy Staples
And those guys are ineligible.
- [60:45]
John McDade
They are ineligible. They're your numbering exceptions and they can't be any other place. And you need to show that in your initial formation. You can't shift into that.
- [60:53]
Andy Staples
Yeah.
- [60:53]
John McDade
Because what you're basically declaring right up front so the receiving team can plainly see these are the five that are ineligible.
- [61:01]
Andy Staples
Right. Which makes perfect sense. That's, that's the rule on every other play. Because honestly, if, if you're going to send the punter on the field, I'm, I'm actually Surprised more teams didn't do this. Just. Just run everybody into the, into the formation and throw to them. I mean, granted, Obviously, it's just 4th and 15. You're probably not. But if it's 4th and 3, you could take advantage. I'm surprised more didn't take advantage of that when they, when they had the chance.
- [61:26]
John McDade
You know, I, I think it's because coaches all have a different risk, reward, evaluation.
- [61:31]
Andy Staples
Okay.
- [61:31]
John Sumrall
Right.
- [61:31]
Andy Staples
You know that.
- [61:32]
John McDade
That's my. Guess what. I've never been in a competition committee meeting in the National Football League. I would love to have the opportunity to do it sometime, but what I hear is they have an expression game inside a game. And I think this topic that we're talking about just became too much of a game inside the game. Yeah. And we, we just want to play football.
- [61:49]
Andy Staples
And I just love the special teams. Coaches went nuts because this was passed. I think most people had finished their spring practice when. When they did it. And so the special teams coach will talk. Well, I can't change a punt formation in preseason camp. We can't now. I will tell everybody. And if you watched our interview with Brent Key a few months ago, you know that when Brent Key took over as the interim coach at Georgia Tech, he had to change the punt formation that week because they had had four punts blocked under the previous. No bueno. Yeah, yeah. So it is doable, guys. It's doable, but, yes, it's common sense. Now, I got one more. There's one more change. And I'm going to need you to explain this to me. Like, I'm a kindergartner. All right, so this is the, the fair catch, fair catch place kick.
- [62:32]
John McDade
Yes. Fair catch kick.
- [62:33]
Andy Staples
How does that work?
- [62:34]
John McDade
Fair catch kick. So they've had this rule in high school, and they've had this rule in the National Football League for decades, maybe a century. If you make a fair catch of a punt, actually even a free kick, or you're awarded a fair catch, which means you've singled for fair catch and you're interfered with, we're going to award you a fair catch. You can elect before the ball's made
- [62:57]
Andy Staples
ready for play to.
- [62:58]
John McDade
To make a fair catch kick, which is basically. And, and actually, they can see me.
- [63:04]
Nick Saban
We're on.
- [63:04]
Andy Staples
We're on video here.
- [63:05]
John McDade
We're going to line up like it's a kickoff.
- [63:07]
Andy Staples
Okay?
- [63:08]
John McDade
The only, the only difference is going to be. Actually, there's two differences. You're going to notice this fan. They're not allowed to use a tee, right?
- [63:14]
Ari Wasserman
There needs to be a holder.
- [63:15]
Andy Staples
So the kickoff uses a tee. So yeah, you have.
- [63:17]
John McDade
Correct.
- [63:17]
Andy Staples
So you have a holder come out like on a field goal.
- [63:19]
John McDade
Bingo. And then kickoffs are always on a five yard line. So there's like a hard white line across the field that are restraining lines for the kickers and receivers. We might be on the Plus 43. So it's going to look odd from that.
- [63:31]
Andy Staples
That but. And the defense has to be 10 yards away, like on the kickoff.
- [63:34]
John McDade
Just exactly like it's a kickoff. But as soon as the foot hits the leather, it turns into a field goal. So everything that happens live ball is field goal rules.
- [63:44]
Andy Staples
How come Bill Belichick never tried this with the Patriots? He's tried everything else. Every other weird special team.
- [63:48]
John McDade
So if the ball goes to the upright, you're gonna get three points. But here's the other thing. Let's say, let's say you're. You really like the strong leg of your kickoff specialist, right?
- [63:58]
Andy Staples
Yes.
- [63:59]
John McDade
And you've got the win at your back and there's five seconds left in the quarter and you like your chances. And so you're at the -47 and you decide.
- [64:07]
Andy Staples
So on your own 47, this is doable.
- [64:10]
John McDade
You miss. Guess where the ball's coming back to the -47. -47. And guess what? Maybe all five seconds didn't run off the clock. And there's only one second left and
- [64:18]
Andy Staples
you could just throw into the end zone.
- [64:19]
John Sumrall
That's a warm.
- [64:19]
John McDade
Your opponent now has the ball at its place. Plus 47 with 1 second.
- [64:23]
Andy Staples
The risk reward of this is amazing. But I love it.
- [64:26]
John McDade
This is the reason I haven't been talking about it. But I was able, I was fortunate to be able to get the data for the National Football League on from the 1970 the NFL AFL merger to last season, which is 57 seasons I believe because it's inclusive of the 1970 season. There has been a fair catch kick once every something like 10, 46 games. And only too successful in that 57.
- [64:52]
Andy Staples
I don't, I honestly don't remember ever seeing one. And that's why I, I. But I'm thinking like when, when Florida State had Sebastian Janikowski, like the ball sounded like a bomb coming off his foot.
- [65:04]
John McDade
If you have, if you have in
- [65:05]
Andy Staples
a kickoff formation, even with a holder. Now if I'm the holder, I'm terrified he's going to kick my hand off.
- [65:10]
John McDade
Yeah.
- [65:10]
Andy Staples
But I take my chances on that.
- [65:13]
John McDade
When you throw in FCs, somewhere amongst FCs and FBs, someone will try it this year.
- [65:18]
John Sumrall
Yeah.
- [65:18]
John McDade
And we'll all get.
- [65:19]
Andy Staples
There is a team with a nuclear legged kick guy because like in college football, it's not 53 man roster. A lot of these teams have a place kick guy, a field goal pat kicker and a kickoff guy. And the kickoff guy is the one with the big leg.
- [65:36]
John McDade
Yes.
- [65:36]
Andy Staples
So I might not be the most accurate.
- [65:39]
Ari Wasserman
Right?
- [65:40]
Andy Staples
Yes. I can't wait. Listen, special teams coaches stop bitching about the. The formation on the punt and start figuring out how to make this kick happen. Because that would add. That would add some drama, to be fair.
- [65:55]
John McDade
Give me some time. I probably hear from special teams coaches more than any other coach on the. Even more than the head coach because they always have rules questions. Because special teams rules are unique and they're funky.
- [66:07]
Ari Wasserman
Right.
- [66:07]
John McDade
And almost without fail, salt of the earth people that I have great conversations with, we basically took a lot of schematics away from them.
- [66:16]
Andy Staples
Yep.
- [66:16]
Ari Wasserman
Right.
- [66:16]
John McDade
And it hurts.
- [66:17]
Andy Staples
Yeah.
- [66:18]
John McDade
And I get it. But it's something we needed to do to take that game with inside the game away.
- [66:24]
Andy Staples
Yeah. I can't imagine being an official. And for those who don't know, the folks at the SEC were nice enough in 2018 to let me attempt to officiate the Georgia spring game as a line judge. The things you have to keep track of before a snap for anybody are ridiculous. But the referee and the umpire and the people responsible for determining who's eligible and who's not on a punt where Nobody is wearing 50 through 79, my head would explode. Yeah.
- [66:56]
John McDade
It became extremely difficult.
- [66:58]
Andy Staples
Yeah. Okay. Well, special teams coaches, again, your mission, if you choose to accept it. I want to see somebody make one of these kicks. Make it happen. John, thank you so much, very much.
- [67:07]
John McDade
Great to see you and enjoy your.
- [67:09]
Andy Staples
Yes, sir. That is John McDade, SEC Coordinator, Officials and Ari, that play, you fair catch the ball and I'm thinking like this is an end of first half scenario and you have a team backed up and they punt and you fair catch the ball like the 50 yard line and there's two seconds left and you bring out essentially your kickoff team but with a holder and you have your kickoff guy try to kick it through the uprights for three points. Somebody's got to try that. Please try that somebody.
- [67:47]
Ari Wasserman
I've always wondered why the field goal is. Is the reason why you can't try guys kick fuel kickoffs for field goal because they can't hold the line, the pressure long enough for the wind up.
- [67:59]
Andy Staples
Well, they can't. You can't allow them to use the kickoff tee. The kickoff tee gives you a significant amount of. Of lift and. Okay, gets more, more yards on the ball. So in this particular play, you're not allowed to use the kickoff tee. You, you would use a holder like you would on a field goal, and the ball is on the ground, the holder is holding the ball, and your kickoff guy just blasts it and tries to get it through the upright.
- [68:20]
Ari Wasserman
If you allowed a kickoff guy to kick the ball off the ground with the usual wind up from kicking off where you get that long run head
- [68:28]
Andy Staples
start, which you would, which you would do like this. This play allows that because the defense has to be 10 yards away so they would get the same run up to. To kick the ball. It would be, I would guess, probably 15 to 20 yards less without the tee. I think the TE adds that much, that much distance.
- [68:50]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah, but you, you've seen kickoff specialists kick it through the uprights on kickoffs.
- [68:53]
Andy Staples
I have from the 35. Yeah.
- [68:55]
Ari Wasserman
I also think it's probably much more difficult to aim when you're, when you're running like that. But yeah, you know, you see like the Canadian leagues or the Canadian League and you know, XFL and arena leagues experiment with some different types of rules and there would be kind of some
- [69:11]
Andy Staples
fun tweaks, as John pointed out. Like, that's a rule. You can do that in high school and NFL. They just don't do it in the NFL. He, he said that the Chargers did it a few years ago and missed it. I don't even remember seeing it. But then the last time before that, I think was when I was in elementary school. So it's not something the NFL teams do. Even though it's available to them. I'm all for it, though. Like that. That'd be crazy. Look, Bill Belichick in North Carolina, like, he, he did drop kicks when he was with the patriots. Like he's Mr. Weird. Special teams rules, like you got to do it.
- [69:46]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah. I mean, in college football, he. The thing that's different from college football, from the NFL too, is that you have so many more games and so many more teams, so the likelihood of grab ass occurring is always higher.
- [69:57]
Andy Staples
So that is a great, great grab ass rule,
- [70:02]
John Sumrall
Ari.
- [70:03]
Andy Staples
I'm about to go see Ole Miss coach Pete Golding. Texas A M is here. Mike Elko this afternoon. Tomorrow morning, Lane Kiffin and LSU take the stage. We're definitely talking about that an awful lot on tomorrow's show. The circus comes to town. We'll talk to you then.