Andy Beshear (2:50)

I like the most. He brings a pragmatic, people first approach to politics shaped by his upbringing in Dallas and his experience both on the field and in the courtroom. He is now running for Texas's new 33rd district.

Andy Beshear (3:05)

Colin, welcome to the show.

Colin Allred (3:07)

Hey Governor, thanks for having me. It really means a lot.

Andy Beshear (3:10)

Well, I'm excited to have you on. We've had a number of congressmen and.

Andy Beshear (3:15)

Women, but we have only had one.

Andy Beshear (3:17)

I guess, current NFL player who is Tyler Schuck, who I'm still rooting for for that offensive rookie of the year. But thanks for being on. And for those watching YouTube, you'll see some, some pretty great gear behind Colin. You have been a ground zero of this mid cycle redistricting that started in Texas and then required a response around the country. Tell us, as somebody living in Texas that's, that's watching all this going on, what your feelings are and, and how you think voters are going to react to it.

Colin Allred (3:56)

Yeah, well, thank you, Governor. I appreciate you and your leadership. And listen, I was a voting rights lawyer mostly because I just, I can't stand the unfairness of trying to silence somebody's voice. And I think part of that is the athlete in me. I just think that, you know, you should, you win some, you lose some, but you don't try to make it so the other side, you know, can't play the game. And you certainly don't take away somebody's ability, hard fought ability in the case particularly of, you know, for me being an African American, the hard fought ability to be a part of their democracy. And I've always hated gerrymandering. We were already gerrymandered before they did this. It's just much worse. And I think that what folks out there need to grasp is that this is triggered, I think what I consider to be kind of a race to the bottom and they're messing with historic accomplishments that we had here in Texas. I mean, one of the districts that they combined with another district is Barbara Jordan's district that she held coming out of the signing of the Voting Rights act, that then Mickey Leland held, that then Sheila Jackson Lee held. It's got a long history of being a stronghold for black voters in Houston. Hard fought people died for that. And they've now combined it with another one to reduce its voting power. They did the same thing with my district in Dallas. The 32nd district that I represented is gone. And so what they're doing is reducing the voting power and ultimately the representation of black and brown communities here in Texas. And it's something that I think has triggered a response. I think people know about it. It's certainly been high profile and they're angry.

Andy Beshear (5:36)

So the thing about this redistricting that is so striking is that they're saying the quiet part out loud.

Colin Allred (5:42)

Yeah, that's right.

Andy Beshear (5:43)

Donald Trump is directly saying, I want more seats. That will go Republican no matter what. And in other words, for representatives to pick their voters instead of voters to pick their representatives. But I have a belief that voters don't like that. They don't like the game being rigged. So what are you hearing out there?

Colin Allred (6:03)

I think you're right and I think that there's an inherent sense of fairness that we have as Americans. But also I just think that folks don't think that it's right that you should sit around in smoke filled rooms and make decisions for communities. And so I do. I've, I've, I've, you know, as I went around the state of Texas and particularly talking to working people, it's contributed to this overall feeling that this entire system is rigged and that it's rigged against them. And you know why? You know, how could you say it's not right? Especially when you see them openly saying they're going to do this, but that it's rigged against them in a way that is going to make it harder for them to get ahead and that no matter what they do, no matter how hard they work, even if they're playing by the rules and doing everything right, that they're not going to be able to get to get ahead and take care of their family. I think this has really played into that. And I think the battle that we often have, as I see as somebody who worked in voting rights with many of our communities, particularly the communities of color, is not just against whether or not they're going to vote for a Democrat or Republican, but it's often whether or not they're going to vote at all and whether or not we can overcome that cynicism, that's a well earned one sometimes, that nothing's going to change and that, you know, the system's been rigged against me for so long, why should I engage in it? And I think what we have to say and what I've said my entire career is, listen, this is how we unrig it, right? Is that we need to fight back against this. You see what they're doing, you see that they know what the power of your vote is, so you should too, right? And we're not going to go in there and try to fight for the status quo as it was, but that we're going to try and fight for what it should be, right? That we know that the system is not working and that there are some dramatic changes that have to be made, but we're going to do it in your favor, not in the favor of the powerful and the well connected. And that, to me, has to be what our message is. And then to say after that, we're going to ban this gerrymandering. We're going to make sure that nobody can do this and that we don't think the Democrats should be doing it either, because I think that's something, Andy, you and I probably both agree on, that we need to make sure that we're holding ourselves to the same a level of accountability.

Andy Beshear (8:04)

You're listening to the Andy Bashir Podcast with our guest, Colin Allred, a NFL linebacker turned civil rights attorney turned congressman who is running in one of these newly gerrymandered districts in Texas.

Andy Beshear (8:18)

Colin, I, I agree with you.

Andy Beshear (8:20)

People feel that the system is rigged. And I think this gerrymandering is part of it. I believe big corporate money and politics is part of it. I believe the overpower of incumbency and to me, the lack of any term limits at all. When I'm in the executive branch, we have term limits. So I, of course, think it's fair that everyone should have them. But, but all these things seem to, to make people think like they don't have a voice. So you have a magic wand. You go back to Congress and you can change one of them.

Andy Beshear (8:51)

Where do you start?

Colin Allred (8:53)

Oh, man. I'm going to, as, as, as we often do, I'm going to combine two, and I'm going to say voting rights and campaign finance, because I think they're tied. And you're right to say the flood of corporate money and just of unaccountable money. I had a super PAC that the president had, Trump super pac that spent $3 million against me when I first ran for Congress back in 2018. It wasn't until after the election that we found out that some of that money had been Russian money that had been funneled by a couple of Russian nationals, Igor Fruman and Lev Parnas, who pled guilty in the Southern District of New York. This is not my opinion. They talked about it and they admitted to what their scheme was. And so that unaccountable money has destroyed the sense that we can have an election where the person who should win does and that you can get your message out fairly. As you know, we don't even have public financing of our presidential campaigns anymore. And it wasn't that long ago that we did that. But I think paired with that is that around the country, we've seen an attack on the right to vote that has also left us incapable of getting rid of incumbents that are no longer doing the job, and that's how I feel about term limits, is I agree that there should be some way to have term limits. The question is, is that going to be set in stone at a certain time, or are we going to make our system so much more efficient that when you're no longer doing an effective job, that you'll be able to be gotten rid of by your constituents? And I think I'm kind of in between on which one I think is better, because I haven't seen us have an efficient system yet. Right. And so I think if we can expand it, protect the right to vote, make campaign finance much more fair, and allow for a fair hearing of arguments in a campaign, that what we'll see then is more turnover and less hanging on by some of these politicians who we all know should be moving on to the next phase of, of what they're going to do next.

Andy Beshear (10:47)

I'll admit I'm a little jealous because in 2019, I beat our incumbent governor with the backing of Trump. But apparently you won a race against Trump and Russia. That's, that's, that's pretty impressive. You made a decision to shift from a Senate race that was getting pretty crowded to the congressional race. Tell us a little bit about your thoughts and what went into your decision on where you wanted to serve.

Colin Allred (11:16)

Yeah, well, Governor, I think you probably have a similar feeling about this when you've run statewide and you've had a chance to talk to people, and they'll often tell you their stories and they'll invest in you what their hopes are and what their fears are and what their concerns are. And I would have this experience where everywhere I go, you know, within a few minutes of talking to somebody, I'd often, they'd often end up in tears, and they'd be telling me their life story, things that they would not normally tell to a stranger. And I think that comes with a certain responsibility to make sure that you do what's best for them, for the state, for the party. And I thought that in this case, you know, especially after, as you said, this race was getting so crowded, that this was not a scenario where anybody was going to be successful ultimately. And it was going to end up being to the benefit of folks who I thought were bootlickers for Trump and who were only going to try and serve him, but that I could serve in a different way, and that I could look at this new district that was created that I think shouldn't have been created, but was where I was born and raised, that I have so much in common with that I've already served in some capacity. And I could go there and make sure that I go back to Congress and use my voice on a national level to talk about what's happening here in Texas and allow some of these folks who are running for Senate to run their campaigns, but do what I think was in the best interest of the state and the party. And so that's what I tried to do. And I know that it's difficult to navigate some of these things, but I honestly based it on what I thought would be best from a public service perspective and how I could help the folks who I grew up around and the folks who would place their faith in me. And so I think I can do that in this role. I know I can. I know that I can go back into Congress with a much louder voice, but also a confidence in having had the experience of talking to so many working people, so many people across Texas and hearing not only their concerns of what's happening now, but also their concerns that nobody sees them at all, that nobody hears them. And I think, you know this, Governor, there's a feeling out there that no matter what is going on, that nobody really cares about those working folks who are actually making our country run. And I think that's what we have to get back to.

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Colin Allred (14:02)

Had the.

Andy Beshear (14:04)

Time of my life a I never.

Colin Allred (14:08)

Felt this way before.

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Andy Beshear (14:21)

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Andy Beshear (14:30)

Let me say I think that's impressive because we see these races all the time where you've got a bunch of really talented candidates and you think, why can't one of them run for something different? So we can have two great candidates in different races. But then everybody's ego is. Is so big that they ought to be in, in the biggest Race. So. So, you know, thank you for making a tough decision. Which.

Andy Beshear (14:56)

Which gets me to the question that.

Andy Beshear (14:58)

We really ask everybody on the podcast. Our podcast is about getting beyond the what, which is just the policy, to the why. What really drives people both to service. But more than that, I think the American people want. Want to know what drives you in making decisions.

Andy Beshear (15:14)

And so what's the why that you lean on when you have that really.

Andy Beshear (15:19)

Tough decision to make?

Colin Allred (15:22)

Yeah, Governor, I think I'm an example of, you know, there before the grace of God go I. Right. I was raised by a single mother who was a public school teacher. You know, I never knew my father. We didn't have any money. In fact, we struggled. I went to public schools in Dallas. I had a YMCA where I went so much that they started letting me come for free. I had a lot of teachers and coaches who invested in me, and it's because of them that I had a chance to do all the things that you listed, from playing in the NFL and being captain of my team at Baylor to becoming a civil rights lawyer working for President Obama. It was all because I was given this chance. And I think when you grow up that way, you kind of have this belief, you know, in community, but also in what can happen when we put opportunities in front of folks. And I often think that when I talk to ordinary folks in Governor, I know you probably feel the same way, that they're not asking for us to do everything for them. That's right. What they want is an opportunity, and then if they take advantage of it, great. But if they don't, they know that's on them. There's a sense of accountability that I think the American people have, that they know that it's up to them to take advantage of it or not. But if we don't give them that chance, then I think we, as policymakers, leaders, in certain capacities, we failed them. And I think we failed a lot of people. I saw a lot of kids who I grew up with, who we were failing, who, thanks to my athletic ability, I was able to get out, but they were not. And I look back on that, and I think how much potential was wasted there. Right. And how much better we could be as a society if we put a bit more into those young people. And so, you know, I'm really driven by a passion for that, for opportunity, for fairness. I don't. I'm not a very ideological person, but I come at it from a perspective that has aligned in many cases, you know, with the Democratic Party and I think that we have some things that we need to change and work on, too. Right. But ultimately, if we're not providing those opportunities to people, then to me, we're failing them. And I think we have been for too long.

Andy Beshear (17:29)

So as we think about that struggling youth, the current cuts that the Trump administration is making or that Congress is making by refusal to act, things from giant cuts to Medicaid, where half of Kentucky's kids, at least, are covered by Medicaid cuts, to the SNAP program, where if you take food benefits away from a parent, that is going to impact their child, and we know a hungry kid is not going to perform well in school. How much does that drive you right now to want to get back into.

Andy Beshear (18:01)

This arena and to try to not have that hand out, but that hand up to people?

Colin Allred (18:07)

Yeah. I am so angry about that. And I think about the, the kids who I grew up with, who they are not, whatever you want to think about how they ended up in their situation, they shouldn't be blamed for it. Right. That they, that they deserve an opportunity, they deserve a chance, and that we should be giving that to them. And if we're honestly, you know, talking about how do you judge a society, I think it has to be judged on how it treats its young people and its most vulnerable. And what they have done is targeted the kind of safety net that allows families like mine, the one that I grew up in, to kind of push off of, to then go and achieve things. And so I also think it's really shortsighted that. Listen, let's be honest about this. If we're not going to make these investments in young people, then we're going to end up having more need on the back end. Right. And so I know what these cuts will mean because I work closely with our food banks here in Dallas. I know we, the North Texas Food Bank's burden is, for example. And I know that when we, for example, doubled up the child tax credit, that it made a huge difference for childhood poverty, you know, in this country. And that we saw here in Dallas the need for services like that, you know, go down. But then now we see it going up, in fact, you know, through the roof when there's not enough to meet that need and there's, again, there's so much potential that it goes wasted. But when you can't go to the doctor or, or you can't afford to feed your family, then you cannot achieve. And so I just find it to be so frustrating because I think there's a conservative argument Even also for saying that, listen, we need to be making sure that we are building up strong families in this country. And I think what this is is just heartless. It's not conservative. It's not in any way based on something like that. To me, it's just a heartless, short sighted, dumb policy that's going to hurt us in the long run and reduce our competitiveness and, you know, the way that we see each other.

Andy Beshear (20:09)

You're listening to the Andy Beshear podcast. We're talking to Colin Allred, who just talked about American families. I want to talk for a minute about your family both growing up and now. You'd mentioned you were raised by a single mom who was a public school educator. Tell me what you learned from her and that experience.

Colin Allred (20:31)

I think I learned that if I get in trouble at school, she doesn't want to hear it. Right? No, but I mean, my mom was one of those people who was teachers who would spend some money at the beginning of every school year on filling out the class supplies that the school didn't quite cover. Right. And even though she wouldn't have a lot of money, she would put that into me and into her kids. And I think there are a lot of people out there who are what I call kind of everyday heroes who wake up every day, work hard. My mom would do a second job tutoring in the evening. They sometimes work 1, 2, 3 jobs. They're doing everything right. And all I think they're hoping is that the folks who are making some decisions on where things are going and in some of these positions that they're thinking about them and working as hard as they are. Right. And my mom was not a hero in any regard, other than the fact that she did what she had to do for me and for us. But I think we should be treating folks like this much better. And I think not just our teachers, who of course should be paid much better, much better. We should be appreciating the working people who are the fabric of our communities, who are the ones who step up and give what they can when a crisis hits. Governor, I know you saw that with Yalls natural disasters that you've dealt with and that you've led your state through. They're the ones who will give you the shirt off their backs. They're the folks who are building this economy that is the envy of the world. But we have not sufficiently made sure that that prosperity is shared and that it's accessible to everybody. And that's why I think we have to really much more aggressively go after. And so I see what we're in right now as sort of like a forest fire period, where so much of what I've worked on, both in the Obama administration and Congress, but just what I've seen also is being destroyed. And I think we can't just talk about building it back the way that it was before. I don't think that'll be good enough. I think we have to say that we have to build it back a lot better. And we know that there are some of these areas that were deeply broken and that were rigged and that we're going to use this destructive period to reconstruct something much more positive.

Andy Beshear (22:52)

Well, and I also think as Democrats, a lot of the programs that were created under the last administration that were good programs, had so many rules and regulations connected to them that it just.

Andy Beshear (23:05)

Took way too long to get results.

Andy Beshear (23:07)

And if we, if we believe everyone deserves high speed Internet, if that is the infrastructure of right now, how do we design a program that takes five years to, to get the money out? So I'm with you, but what I'm curious about is I love being a dad. You know, my kids mean the world to me. Growing up in a household with a single mom, how do you approach being a dad?

Colin Allred (23:31)

Yeah, well, like a lot of kids who didn't know their father, I think I spent a lot of time as a young man thinking about what I would be like as a father. And I'm not sure that I'm exactly that, but I know that I take it as seriously as I possibly could. And I ended up being that I was the first member of Congress to publicly take paternity leave. And I did that in 2019 when our son Jordan was born. And I wrote an op ed about it in the Dallas Morning News. And I put out some statements talking about how important it was for men to take leave, citing a Department of labor study that showed that not only when men take leave, not only does it have benefits for the men themselves, but also for their spouses, for their children. And that those early days are so important. Right. And that I wanted to make sure that every person across the country should be able to have that time with their, with their new child that they're bringing into their home. That's why we need to have a paid family leave policy and that we're the only major developed country in the world that doesn't have one. And so I've tried to use the fact that I did not have a father as a constant Reminder that I'm going to be there for my boys, right? And that they know me. They know that I'm going to be there every morning, every night, as much as I possibly can be. You know how that goes, Governor. But also that I'm going to be the same almost every day, right? And that they don't have to wonder, you know, about how does dad feel about me. They don't have to wonder, know. And my priority, that they know that and that that is deeply ingrained in them and that, you know, I'm going to do everything I can for them. And I tell these the story on the campaign trail sometimes. But my sons like to collect rocks, and they'll bring me rocks to. I don't know, they just think that I should see the rocks that they collected, right? And. And so I carry two little rocks with me everywhere I go in my pocket to remind me of each of them. And so when I'm not with them at bedtime or when I'm traveling somewhere, they know that whenever I put my hand in my pocket, that I'm thinking about them. And I tell them, I send them pictures and tell them, hey, listen, I have my rocks with me. I'm thinking about you. I want them to know that no matter where I am, they're with me and that I'm with them, too. And that's the best that I can possibly do.

Andy Beshear (25:49)

That's pretty good. What is your biggest worry for the country right now and what gives you hope?

Colin Allred (25:58)

Yeah, I mean, I think LBJ used to talk about how any jackass can knock down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one. You know, I mean, like, it's. It's easy to destroy things, and you can do it quickly. And I worry that the destruction of some of the pillars that we have in our. In our democracy, you know, are happening at such a pace that it's going to be difficult to rebuild. And I often say that. I think the Constitution imagined that we might have a president like this, but I don't think it ever imagined that we'd have a congress like this at the same time.

Andy Beshear (26:35)

Amen.

Colin Allred (26:36)

You know, And I think we knew that we had to guard against tyranny, and we had to guard against the collection of power on one hand, but we didn't know that we had to deal with this level of cowardice. And so I'm most concerned about that level of cowardice. I see that instead of seeing themselves as a co. Equal branch of government, as part of a check and balance system, with competing powers that should be jealously guarded, that we have a cowardly Congress that has decided that we should have, in effect, a king. And I think we have to immediately stamp out that idea. But what gives me hope is that when I talk to ordinary people, I just can tell you, and I think you agree with me, Governor, this is not what they wanted.

Andy Beshear (27:17)

That's right.

Colin Allred (27:18)

I think they wanted cheaper groceries. I think they wanted to be able to send their kids to school and feel like their communities were safe. In some cases, maybe they wanted less chaos or more efficiency, like you said, when it came to things like well meaning programs that were never implemented before. Very well. And I was, you know, I helped pass some of that legislation and I still wonder why is this money still not gotten out there? You know, I think that's what they were hoping for. Not that they would have, you know, somebody who would, you know, be slapping his name on everything, destroying everything, you know, going around pretending like, you know, he is the sole arbiter of what's going to happen in this country in every single regard, whether it's, you know, college or high school or, you know, what, what happens in anybody's, you know, privacy of their own house. I mean, I think that this is deeply anti American the period that we're going through. And the good news is, I think America, the American people feel that and that there's a friction that they feel between what's happening now and what they know is right and how we should be doing things. And that friction, I think is going to show up in this midterm. I think it's going to show up in the election in 2028. But I think before then, I think it's showing up right now in folks who are protesting and folks who are organizing, who are putting their effort into standing up to what they know is a deeply un American moment. And that makes me both proud of us and gives me a lot of hope.

Andy Beshear (28:50)

Well, and as we tape this, we're coming off of the week where we saw the shooting by ICE in Minneapolis and an enorm response from not just people there, but, but all over the country saying we, we, we believe in border security and we understand we're a nation of laws, but this is not how these groups are supposed to act.

Colin Allred (29:13)

That's right.

Andy Beshear (29:13)

Give us, give us your take on, on what the country saw there.

Colin Allred (29:17)

Well, I think if you believe in the rule of law, which I do, and I was, that's why I was a civil rights lawyer, because I believe that we can create laws and apply them fairly, then, you know how destructive and things like this is to the rule of law and a belief that there's going to be accountability in this country and that, you know, folks who are given the privilege of being in some position of authority can be trusted, and that trust can be lost quickly and it's hard to rebuild it. And I see what's been happening in Texas, and I know around the country is ICE being used to terrorize communities and being used in a way that I think in some ways will set back for decades efforts that have been made to try and build trust with local law enforcement and build trust with the idea that we can have a fair system where people are treated right and that due process will be applied. And so this is a. This is incredibly dangerous for us as a country. But then when you see a life lost, the callousness towards that person's family, towards that community, of trying to tell people, don't believe your lion eyes, you know, believe me, I find that to be so upsetting that people can be that callous about somebody who was killed. And you can go back and forth on whether or not the conditions around how it happened. But we should begin from a place of empathy and accountability and transparency, and then work backwards from there, instead of starting with this gaslighting and then this attempt to sort of just lie to people and move on. And so this is another area where the Congress has to assert itself. This is a federal agency. It has Congress's oversight over this agency. And after this election, I don't expect this majority to do it. But should we be given a Democratic majority, then we have to have deep and searching oversight over ISIS activities and policies, how they're being used, who they're recruiting, who they're putting on the street, what instructions they have when they're on that street, and try and make sure that we reestablish some sense of a belief that you can trust law enforcement. Because I have a lot of friends in law enforcement. I think you do too, Governor. And this hurts all of them. And I think it's dangerous for us as a country.

Andy Beshear (31:45)

Well, you with your background as a civil rights attorney, me having served as Attorney General, we know what the proper response to one of these events is. And what we have seen from both Kristi Noem and the president is grossly irresponsible. Anytime there's an officer involved shooting, there needs to be an investigation. Typically, if you are the head of that organization, you don't want to reach any conclusion because Otherwise you, you lessen the impact of that investigation or whether people can have any trust in it at all. And the idea that Kristi Noem calls this 37 year old woman a domestic terrorist before anything is conducted at all.

Andy Beshear (32:27)

I worry also further emboldens these folks.

Andy Beshear (32:32)

When they stop other people.

Colin Allred (32:34)

Yep, that's right. I think the message they're sending is one of, that this kind of behavior is not only going to be tolerated, but that it'll be covered up. And that also is deeply corrosive to any law enforcement. Right. And so what I know is that ordinary folks see things like this and they also sense that this isn't right and that this is not who we are or who we should be. And so I think we have to just remember that as well, that while they're doing all this nonsense, while they're lying to people, sure there'll be some people who be taken in by it. But I think most folks look at this from an objective view and think that wasn't right and there should be accountability and transparency. And they may not prejudge what they think should happen, but they think there should at least be a fair process to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Andy Beshear (33:27)

All right. As we close out, we like to ask questions for people to get to know you a little bit better. Favorite, favorite type of food.

Colin Allred (33:36)

I'm a big Tex Mex fan, I guess. Yeah.

Andy Beshear (33:42)

Favorite play that you've made in your football career? The one you go back to and think that was the moment?

Colin Allred (33:51)

Well, in college, let's see. I, I think in my last game against Oklahoma State, I had an interception that I then shook. A couple guys took it back 25 yards, dove over the pylon for a touchdown. I was like, yeah, I think I'm pretty good now.

Andy Beshear (34:09)

Yeah, so.

Andy Beshear (34:09)

So how long in college had you worked on, on that dance or celebration to do if you'd scored a touchdown?

Colin Allred (34:17)

Yeah, I didn't really have great celebrations. Linebackers usually don't, you know, but I, I think looking back on it, I wish I had something smooth that I could have done, but I didn't, you know.

Andy Beshear (34:26)

Do the offensive players come over to.

Andy Beshear (34:28)

You afterwards and grade your celebration?

Colin Allred (34:30)

I think they do. And I think they're also judging us, you know, because all of our careers we've been telling the coaches that we should have the ball in our hands. They're like, see, this is why you don't see.

Andy Beshear (34:39)

I always, you know, I grew up playing soccer. Very, very different, different type of football. But I was a defender. And if, and if we pitched a shutout right, then no one ever came.

Andy Beshear (34:49)

Over and congratulated us.

Andy Beshear (34:50)

But that striker that scores one time, it gets all the glory.

Colin Allred (34:55)

That's right. It could be a tap in, right? Yeah.

Andy Beshear (34:57)

So what, what is your secret superpower, that thing that you are good at that nobody knows?

Colin Allred (35:04)

I think that I'm, I'm very good at making breakfast. And I, I'm probably not the best at every other meal, but, like, I can make, you know, pancakes, you know, make the best, you know, scrambled eggs you can think about, you know, throw in some sausage. I can, you know, expand that out and make some really mean, you know, breakfast tacos. So, like, I feel like I'm, I'm really good at breakfast.

Andy Beshear (35:25)

Does breakfast in Texas require salsa?

Colin Allred (35:28)

It does, yes. And usually avocado as well.

Andy Beshear (35:31)

I'm in on the avocado. Colin, best of luck in your race. Thanks for joining the podcast.

Colin Allred (35:37)

Thank you, Governor. Appreciate you.

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Andy Beshear (36:30)

Next up on the Andy Beshear podcast is my conversation with the Johns. We talk about this podcast as being a conversation among friends. And so that's what the conversation with the Johns is. It's me talking to my friends John McConnell and John Rabinowitz, both small business owners, one a lawyer, one with a background in insurance. But I think our conversations, I hope, prove to you that we can talk about tough issues. We can disagree on some of those issues, but most of the time, the American people just through talking to their friends, can come to some form of consensus. And wouldn't that be great if our government could do the same?

John McConnell (37:09)

That would be amazing. It would be, no doubt. Well, I'll kick this off real quick. I was thinking about taking a vacation to Greenland. So it seems to be in the news a whole lot here recently.

John Rabinowitz (37:19)

Are you hoping that it ends up like the Virgin Islands and we own it? Is that what you're implying?

John McConnell (37:25)

I mean, if we go back in time, we did purchase the Virgin Islands, I think, from Denmark at some point.

Andy Beshear (37:31)

Part of the Virgin Islands, Part of them, yeah. Well, what I think is if you go and vacation in Greenland, I hope you get a better welcome than J.D. vance did. I'm pretty sure he rolled in and just no one was there.

John Rabinowitz (37:44)

Make sure you pick the right time of year.

Andy Beshear (37:47)

But why we're talking about Greenland and I think most of our listeners know this is hot off of the Venezuelan action, where Stephen Miller very ominously said, we're going to do what we want because we have the power to do it. The President began talking about Greenland again. First it was potentially taking by force, which then was ruled off the table, which then was brought back on the table. And who knows what table we're even talking about at this point. Then there was the suggestion that the United States could buy Greenland, which of course Denmark said is not for sale. And then there was even the floating of, well, let's pay everybody in Greenland 100 grand and maybe they'll join the United States.

John Rabinowitz (38:34)

Well, he did say that he will either go the easy route or the hard route, did he not?

Andy Beshear (38:42)

Yep.

John Rabinowitz (38:43)

And I think he also said today that what was the defense, John? Two dog sleds like?

Andy Beshear (38:49)

Yes, he.

John Rabinowitz (38:50)

So it was again, kind of ridiculousness, but strategic. Like the argument is that if we don't occupy it, China and Russia will. And so I would like to know your thoughts on that.

Andy Beshear (39:03)

I don't think one or the other occupying it is the only choice. I mean, we could easily work with them for a stronger alliance where we are not trying to take over their country and we get extra access for our military. I've got two big concerns. Number one is the United States has been a beacon of democracy for most of my life and now we're the bully on the playground. The idea that we'll take your lunch money if we can seems to be what this administration is saying out loud to anybody in our hemisphere that's that's listening. And then second, with, with affordability being such an issue for the people of the United States, this President is saying he's going to make Venezuelans rich and he wants to give 100 grand to every individual in Greenland while the people of the United States can't afford their bills.

John McConnell (39:56)

Well, and he's already said that he thinks affordability is a hoax. And something else that comes out of this, Andy, is that everyone keeps talking about this being the unraveling of NATO.

John Rabinowitz (40:05)

Oh, well, play it out, John. Yeah, Think about this. If we attempt to occupy it, NATO probably has not. Probably has an obligation to defend it. So are we going to go to.

Andy Beshear (40:16)

War with NATO and just none of this is necessary? If they believe we need a larger military presence in Greenland, then let's do it as a member of NATO. Let's do it in conjunction with the people of Greenland. And in talking to Denmark, the only thing they're opposed to is us owning Greenland, which is not for sale. And the United States is not a country that comes in and says we're going to take you over. That is not who we are. And just the tone deafness of all of this, with both potentially occupying Venezuela and now talking about Greenland to a generation that has been through Iraq and Afghanistan and doesn't want to experience that again, you know, I think is only going to hurt this president.

John Rabinowitz (41:07)

Listen, strategically I understand why that island is so important. I understand it's abundant with natural resources. But I do think we get whatever we want when we approach them the right way. We already have a strong presence there. Owning it or not owning it. I still think we would get what we want if presented the right way.

Andy Beshear (41:27)

And we would be safer with the people of Greenland being a part of the ultimate agreement that we made, being supportive. And by the way, they have followed us into lots of different conflicts internationally. Small population, but still send some of their military just about whenever we ask. To me, this is like what we did to Canada. This is kicking people who have been good allies and all we probably have to do is ask if we need just a little bit more.

John Rabinowitz (41:59)

And in a country of 56,000 people, if John shows up, he definitely stands out. There's very little question.

Andy Beshear (42:11)

Well, let's turn towards a tough topic that we talked about with Colin Allred and that was the shooting by ICE agents of a 37 year old woman US citizen in Minneapolis. I think just about everybody out there has seen the video. Where I start is that there's a 37 year old woman that is dead whose kids don't have one of their biological parents left, having lost their dad shortly before.

John Rabinowitz (42:45)

Sure. Tragedy on many, many different levels.

John McConnell (42:47)

A tragic loss. And for it to be caught on that many cameras, be seen from that many angles. And then you talk now about more officers going there.

John Rabinowitz (42:57)

Andy, do you think this was inevitable, something like this was going to happen?

Andy Beshear (43:01)

Yes. Yeah, I listen. I'm the former top law enforcement official of Kentucky serving as ag. And so I think a couple things. First, when you had a law enforcement group, how you act, the words you use matter. If you are truly carrying out the law and believe in due process, you cannot create a level of aggressive that encourages your agency or your officers to go beyond the law, to act first and ask questions later. That's not what law enforcement can do. Because when you join law enforcement, you have a pretty solemn sacred duty. You're holding people's civil rights in your hand. And when you see a president use the aggressive type of language that he does, when you have Kristi Noem putting out videos of people's legs shackled and or reveling in arresting different members of Congress or city or state officials that come to view the facilities, then you create a level of toxicity where these types of things can happen. And the response when there's an officer involved shooting, you, as the head of an agency or even as governor, have a duty to bring calm and to build confidence that the investigation is going to be real. The facts are going to be put out there for everybody. You're going to be transparent. And if somebody's rights were violated, if somebody's dead, that shouldn't be dead. Right? And we always hope that no one ends up dead in these situations that you can trust enough in the system to where you're going to see that Here we had the head of the group already call this woman a domestic terrorist. Didn't know a darn thing about her. Not one you saw the president already jump in and try to defend. To them, it's more about winning some political argument than actually figuring out what happened. Make sure that the policing is done in the correct way and if either mistakes or violations were made. And as I view this, that's what I think likely happened. It needs to get out there, but.

John McConnell (45:26)

It'S almost trying to get the sound bite out there to put forward the narrative you want before the investigation can even happen.

John Rabinowitz (45:32)

Well, I was not in watching those videos. Obviously. Incredible tragedy. Not a huge fan of disregarding the orders of police or agents and blocking traffic. To your point, maybe something like this was inevitable. But what I found interesting post everything is listening to the officers say how this is actually making their job more of a challenge and causing more issues across the country.

Andy Beshear (45:57)

So two things that I want to know about is number one, what was their reason for. For denying the physician or healthcare professional access to the car? Because if we find out that this woman could have survived and bled out, not allowing that medical professional There is incredibly callous. But the second piece is, if you got nothing to hide, why won't you let Minneapolis police join in the investigation? That's what you often have in these. You have a joint task force. Because, again, it' sthe goal is to build confidence that you're going to do it right.

John Rabinowitz (46:33)

Do you guys think there's a target on Minnesota right now? It just seems like events there are happening over and over again.

John McConnell (46:39)

Seems like it comes up a lot.

Andy Beshear (46:41)

I think that this president knows he is flailing and failing on domestic policy, that he's not even trying to address affordability. And his response always is, who can I pick a fight with? Where he gets his support, or what he knows how to do is cause a confrontation. I think he's looked for confrontation to use the US Military or the National Guard. I think that's wrong. And now I think he's looking for extra confrontation here. Sending more ICE agents in when one was just involved in a shooting. I mean, any other rational agency or leader would say, okay, we need to pull back a little bit. We need to let everybody calm down. We need to hold a real investigation. But let's not, you know, further poke people who are feeling hurt and just blocks from where the George Floyd killing had occurred. Just makes it that much more difficult, that much more of a pain powder keg. And I'd like to think as a president, you'd want to stop things from getting worse than to actually make them get worse.

John McConnell (47:54)

We talk about fighting back. Are we seeing more government branches start to come out with rulings and pushing back on some of these initiatives that are happening?

John Rabinowitz (48:04)

Well, yeah, The Supreme Court just recently ruled in favor of Illinois with bringing officers over there, National Guard officers. So I think you're starting to see that pushback.

Andy Beshear (48:17)

We talked about this a number of weeks ago, whether the Supreme Court was going to be its own branch of government. That would be the check and the balance that it's supposed to be. And I think we talked about two cases, the National Guard case, whether the president could send a National Guard from one state into another that didn't want them. And given that governors lead the National Guard, how problematic that would be. And the Supreme Court gave a very strong ruling that you can't do that, that a president can't do that. And I think that was a critical ruling that preserves our democracy, because that was one where if the Supreme Court didn't rule the right way, I was worried they were giving it up. But the second thing that happened was we just had One of the chambers of Congress pushed back on a vote against some of these actions in Venezuela, saying, you can't take major military action without us.

John McConnell (49:09)

Yeah. You can't just go in without any congressional support and just bomb the country that you want to bomb.

John Rabinowitz (49:15)

If they're truly co. Equal branches of government, then, and we're following our Constitution, you have to go to Congress to get approval. That's the people have to have a voice.

Andy Beshear (49:24)

Well, and Colin already talked about up to then the cowardice of some members of Congress, which is hard to understand because these, these are successful people most of the time that left a business, that left a position of leadership, and then have just allowed themselves to be run over and to not speak out even, even when the President is taking a position that's very different from the one they ran on and promised their people they'd follow.

John Rabinowitz (49:49)

Do you think that passes the House? Obviously the President won't sign it, but do you think it makes it through the House?

Andy Beshear (49:56)

I think it's. I think it does if they will bring it to a vote. The question is, will the speaker try to prevent a vote? Like he has pushed off the vote on tax credits, which also happened, which is a big deal. So the House was finally able to vote on the extension of ACA tax credits. Everybody's health care plan that gets it from the exchange, mainly small businesses and, and their employees were going to skyrocket because while Congress voted yes to extend tax cuts to the wealthy, they had initially refused to vote on whether to extend tax credit for hardworking Americans that struggled to afford health care. You know what? Enough Republicans came over and in something bipartisan, nonpartisan, you picked your word, passed that out of the House and now over to the Senate. And I don't know what the Senate will do, but this is an issue that Americans are overwhelmingly for and it's really going to hurt some of those Republican senators if they don't back it or if it doesn't get a vote. That's a wrap on this episode of the Andy Beshear Podcast. I want to thank my friend, former Congressman, and soon to be Congressman again, Colin Allred, for joining us and sharing some wisdom. Thanks to the Johns for a spirited conversation and thanks to all of you all for tuning in to the podcast. Remember, you can download it on all major platforms. Please subscribe to our YouTube channel @andy Beshear Podcast and head on over to the website andybashearpodcast.com to buy a little bit of merch, show it around, tell your friends about this podcast, we are gaining steam. But getting to that next level, we need your help. Please join us. Next week we're going to have Secretary of State candidate Beau Bai from Indiana. It is a great conversation. We want you to be a part. Thanks everybody.

Angie Hicks (52:08)

Cloudless Skies.

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Colin Allred (52:30)

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