Congressman Clyburn, Learning from the Past and an Upsidedown Week in Politics

Summary

Andy Beshear Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Congressman Clyburn, Learning from the Past and an Upsidedown Week in Politics
Air Date: November 26, 2025
Host: Andy Beshear
Guest: Representative Jim Clyburn

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Episode Overview

In this special Thanksgiving episode, Andy Beshear sits down with Congressman Jim Clyburn, a 17-term veteran of the U.S. House of Representatives, to discuss gratitude, lessons from history, the evolution of American politics, faith, legislative accomplishments, and the current political climate. The episode is rich with reflections on personal and public life, interspersed with stories of family, the importance of accessible social programs, and Representative Clyburn's new book, The First Eight. The conversation is followed by a lighter segment with frequent guests John Rabinowitz and John McConnell, who, along with Andy, react to an “upside-down week” in politics and share a bit of birthday celebration.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Thankfulness and Family Traditions (00:23–06:45)

• Gratitude Amidst Turmoil:
  • Clyburn emphasizes being thankful for life, family, friends, and the opportunity living in America provides—even amidst social and political challenges.
    • “This is a great country. We've got to figure out... How do we make this country's greatness accessible and affordable for all of its citizens?” — Rep. Clyburn (02:42)
• Clyburn Family Traditions:
  • Talks about family Thanksgivings after the passing of his wife; girls spend Thanksgiving with in-laws and Christmas together at Hilton Head for reflection and togetherness.
  • Reveals his favorite Thanksgiving dish: oxtails.
    • “I like turkey. I don't love turkey. I'm more of an oxtails guy.” — Rep. Clyburn (06:32)

2. Politics, Bipartisanship, and Polarization (06:45–11:36)

• Then vs. Now in Congress:
  • Clyburn recalls a more respectful, bipartisan Congress when he joined, and how polarization began post-1994 with the Gingrich era.
    • “It was a place where people demonstrated respect for each other… but around 1994… that election began the polarization.” — Rep. Clyburn (07:54)
  • Discusses the shift with the “majority of the majority” rule, ending much bipartisan legislation.
    • “They were not going to bring anything to the floor unless they had a majority of their conference in favor of it.” — Andy Beshear (09:09)
• Favorite Legislative Moments:
  • Passing the Affordable Care Act as Majority Whip, but regrets that Democrats didn’t spend enough time communicating its benefits post-passage.
    • “We told the people what we were going to do and we did it… And we did not go back to them to explain to them everything that we had done… and the other side defined the Affordable Care Act, misdefined it, but they did it.” — Rep. Clyburn (11:36)

3. Making Policy Personal and Affordable (12:10–15:02)

• Policy Should Be Tangible:
  • Both agree that voters care most about tangible issues—healthcare costs, affordable prescriptions, etc.—regardless of background or politics.
    • “If you can't afford your child's next prescription, nothing else matters.” — Andy Beshear (14:11)
  • Clyburn discusses how public policy wins in recent elections came from making programs—like education, health care, and housing—more affordable and accessible.

4. Election Strategy and State Politics (16:09–18:50)

• Importance of State-Level Politics:
  • Beshear and Clyburn discuss the need to focus on governor's races and state legislatures as central to national election outcomes.
    • “We lost over 1,000 legislative seats during [Obama’s] eight years in office.” — Rep. Clyburn (16:53)
• How Democrats Win in the South:
  • Make policy personal, relevant to voters’ lives, families, and communities rather than talking in abstract terms.

5. Learning from History & The New Book (18:50–29:17)

• Reflecting at Selma & Historical Parallels:
  • Both reflect on the significance of the Selma march for voting rights and its meaning for today.
    • “At the time… only 3% of African Americans in the entire state of Alabama were registered to vote. So that march was all about… a message to the country that we are not a part of this great democracy.” — Rep. Clyburn (20:10)
• Clyburn’s New Book: The First Eight
  • Originally about the eight Black Congressmembers from South Carolina before him, it evolved to draw explicit parallels between post-Reconstruction voter suppression and current events (e.g., attempts to overturn elections, Project 2025).
    • “What’s going on today is not new. It’s happened before… Hopefully, we’ve learned some lessons.” — Rep. Clyburn (24:53)
  • Recounts how key moments in U.S. history—impeachment, Reconstruction, rise of Jim Crow—came down to one consequential vote.

Notable Quote

• “History has a way of repeating itself… If you fail to learn the lessons of history, you’re bound to repeat them.” — Rep. Clyburn (24:57)

6. Policy Topics: Tariffs, Tax Bills, and Social Welfare (29:17–35:47)

• Tariffs:
  • Clyburn explains that tariffs are taxes paid by citizens and criticizes their current use as reactionary.
    • “Anybody that mistakes a tariff for anything other than a tax that's going to eventually be paid by the citizens... you miss the history of tariffs.” — Rep. Clyburn (29:32)
• “Big Ugly Bill”:
  • Both criticize major recent legislation for cutting social programs to fund tax breaks for the wealthy.
    • “We cut food for children. We reduce health care for citizens. And when you look at what we did with things like Medicare, putting a cap on insulin at $35 a month for people who can't afford $6-700.” — Rep. Clyburn (31:24)

7. Personal Motivation, Faith, and Hope (35:47–42:01)

• Clyburn’s “Why”:
  • Driven by a love for South Carolina and a desire to “make a contribution to helping make South Carolina a better place.”
    • Inspired by his high school teacher’s advice to stay and help improve the state rather than join the brain drain.
• The Role of Faith:
  • Clyburn and Beshear reflect on the importance of acting on faith and using one’s talents for good.
    • “Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen.” — Rep. Clyburn quoting Hebrews 11:1 (37:16)
  • Clyburn highlights the Matthew 25 ethic—serving “the least of these”—and James: “faith without works is dead.”

Memorable Family Parables

• “You pray every day for good health and strength… if the good Lord gives you some modicum of both, get up off your knees and go to work.” — Rep. Clyburn recalling his father (40:34)
• “I think the world would much rather see a sermon than to hear one.” — Rep. Clyburn’s father quoting Edgar Guess

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Passing the ACA:
  • “So we told the people what we were going to do and we did it. And we did not go back to them to explain to them everything that we had done. So we lose 50 some odd seats in the next election because the other side defined the Affordable Care act, misdefined it, but they did it.” (11:36, Clyburn)
• On Faith and Politics:
  • “We ought not leave our faith on the sideline. We should practice that faith to the fullest extent.” (38:10, Clyburn)
• On History:
  • “If you fail to learn the lessons of history, you're bound to repeat them.” (24:57, Clyburn, quoting Santayana)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Thanksgiving and Family Talk: 00:23–06:45
• Congress Then and Now, Polarization: 06:45–11:36
• Affordable Care Act and Communication Lessons: 11:36–14:06
• Election Strategies and State Politics: 16:09–18:50
• Selma and Voting Rights: 18:50–22:18
• New Book – The First Eight: 22:24–29:17
• Tariffs, Economic Policy & “Big Ugly Bill”: 29:17–35:47
• Personal Motivation, Faith & Hope: 35:47–42:01

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"The Johns" Segment: Political Upside-Down & Birthday (44:42–End)

Highlights

• Discuss Trump’s surprising support for New York’s new (presumably Democratic) mayor and public split with Marjorie Taylor Greene.
• Human trafficking and the Epstein files: Beshear pivots to emphasize victim support over political jockeying.
  • “Human trafficking is a horrific crime... The most important thing is that perpetrators are held accountable and that victims find the healing and the services they need.” — Andy Beshear (46:46)
• Government shutdown: Everyone loses; Congressional Republicans and the President singled out for failing to protect working/middle class public and food security.
• Lighthearted moment: the Johns celebrate Andy’s birthday (“Superpower confirmed!” for his Thanksgiving turkey).

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Final Thoughts & Tone

The episode is infused with warmth, gratitude, and a deep sense of civic responsibility. Clyburn’s historical perspective and commitment to service mix with Andy Beshear's conversational, empathetic style, making for a reflective yet hopeful discussion about both enduring and current challenges in American political and personal life.

If you missed the episode:

• Expect to learn about how personal stories shape public service.
• Get a first-hand view of how U.S. history echoes into today’s political fights.
• Appreciate frank takes on the state of bipartisan cooperation, social policy, and the role of faith.
• Enjoy relatable reminders to cherish family, hope, and the power of a home-cooked meal.

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Where to Buy the Book

• The First Eight by Jim Clyburn is available at major bookstores, Amazon, and Little, Brown (the publisher).
  • “Order them both. They make great Christmas presents.” — Rep. Clyburn (29:18)

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Transcript

[Commercial Narrator]

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[Andy Beshear]

Welcome to this special Thanksgiving episode of the Andy Beshear Podcast. This might be our biggest in studio guest ever. This week we have Representative Jim Clyburn, who's in town promoting his new book, which he'll talk about. He's going to talk about what he's thankful for this Thanksgiving, how things have changed over his 30 plus years of service and the threats of the current presidential administration, from tariffs to the big ugly bill. We'll even talk about faith, the impact that his dad, a minister, and my granddad, a minister, had on each of our lives. We'll get to ask him his why. And this is just a really special interview that I think you'll like. We'll then have our conversation with the Johns. I hope everyone is having a great Thanksgiving. I hope you're taking the time to take a breath, enjoy yourself, enjoy your family, push out the chaos and some of the toxicity in this world and realize we still have a lot to be grateful and thankful for. I'm thankful for all of you, our listeners, and I'd remind you that you can download the Andy Beshear Podcast on all major platforms, but please subscribe to our YouTube channel @andy Beshear Podcast. I would be thankful if you would do so. All right, let's get to this episode. And now on the Andy Beshear Podcast, possibly our biggest in studio guest, Representative Jim Clyburn. Representative Clyburn has served in Congress for 17 terms. He has seen it all. He's been a part of really big moments and he's part of pushing back against this current administration. Representative Clyburn, thanks for joining the podcast.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Well, thank you very much for having me.

[Andy Beshear]

So this is our 34th or 5th episode, but this is the first time I've ever been able to say this on the podcast. Happy Thanksgiving.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Well, thank you very much. It's great to be here during this season. It's a season that we ought to be thankful. Although we may question some of what's going on around us. You should be thankful for life and thankful for family and friends and thankful for a great country. I say all the time, this is a great country. We've got to figure out, and probably this season will be a good time to do this. How do we make this country's greatnesses accessible and affordable for all of its citizens, for everyone? And if it's education, energy, health care, housing, whatever it is, this country has a lot of it and we have some Real good programs surrounding them. But we have not done a good enough job of making all these things accessible and affordable. And this season will be the right time of the year for us to take stock of ourselves and what we might be able to do to further that.

[Andy Beshear]

I think about Thanksgiving, and we think about both giving thanks and the food, but we're coming off a period of time where Donald Trump became the first president in U.S. history to initially refuse to pay SNAP benefits during a shutdown and then went to court to refuse to pay full benefits when we'd won a couple cases against him.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Right. Yeah. And that should remind us all of our obligation to maintaining this country's greatness. Every now and then, you might take a step backwards, and I do believe we took a step backwards with last year's or the year before elections. It's time for us now to take stock of all of that. Not to be disturbed or preturbed, but to rededicate ourselves to the proposition that this country should have all of its resources available and affordable by all of its citizens.

[Andy Beshear]

I want to get into that, but first tell us what's your Thanksgiving table look like, who's there, family wise, and what are the main dishes?

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

This is going to be the sixth Thanksgiving that I'll be without my late wife Emily and I were married for 58 years. Wow. And we really enjoyed our three daughters, two of whom I will be spending Thanksgiving dinner with. The third daughter will be in Jackson, Mississippi with her in laws because our family decided back in 1972 that we need to spend time together when nothing else is in invading. And so we started going down to Hilton Head, South Carolina, the weekend before Christmas and we stay there up until around New Year's Day and to reflect on the past year, project out into the future. So our big Thanksgiving period when we will have a big Christmas dinner together will be during that time. So we let the in laws have the children for Thanksgiving. We'll gather them up come Christmas.

[Andy Beshear]

Favorite dish on a Thanksgiving table.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

You know, it might be strange, but oxtails?

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Really?

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Yeah. That's my favorite. You know, I like turkey. I don't love turkey. I'm more of a oxtails guy.

[Andy Beshear]

You're listening to the Andy Beshear podcast. We have Representative Jim Clyburn. Let's turn conversation to your public service. I'm thinking over 33, 34 years, you've seen a lot. How different is it today than when you first started?

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Oh, it's a big difference. Now. I remember I got elected to Congress when I was 52 years old. That's an age that a lot of people used to retire from Congress. But I grew up in South Carolina. I've lived there all of my life. And I grew up at a time when getting elected to office of any sort. In fact, when I first ran for office back in 1970, there were not any African Americans in our state legislature. And so I got involved in politics in order to help correct some of that. So when I ran For Congress in 1992, I had retired from state government. I had been on the governor's staff, spent on the staff of Governor John west, spent four years with him. I had run a state agency, and I had run for office. So I'd have retired and decided to vote full time getting elected to Congress. But when I got elected to Congress, it was a place where people demonstrated respect for each other. Their partisanship was there, but nobody reveled in it. I'm a big golfer, and so I played golf a lot on Mondays. We usually start the session Monday evenings, and so we'd go in on early Monday morning or Sunday evening. And I played golf with more Republicans than I did Democrats. But then around 1994, we had a very contentious election. And that election began the polarization.

[Andy Beshear]

Newt Gingrich.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Newt Gingrich got elected, and he made it very clear that he did not want members of his party associating or interacting with those of us on the other side of the aisle.

[Andy Beshear]

That's the first time I remember the phrase the majority of the majority.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Yes.

[Andy Beshear]

That. That's how they were going to.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

That's exactly right. Which means that they were not going to bring anything to the floor unless they had a majority of their conference in favor of it. And so that put an end to the kind of bipartisan legislation that we were famous for, especially in committees like the Appropriations Committee, where you're spending the people's money, or at least obligating it. It's always been very bipartisan. All of a sudden, things got polarized.

[Andy Beshear]

So you went through that period of time. You've been a part of a minority party and a majority party.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Yes.

[Andy Beshear]

What are your favorite moments and your biggest accomplishments as you look at 33, 34 years?

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Well, there are a lot of great moments. The one that I think had the greatest impact was when we passed the Affordable Rent Act. We passed that act, and I was majority whip. My job was to count the votes. It was a tough bill, and we paid dearly for it because I think we as a party made some miscalculations after passing the bill, Barack Obama had campaigned on health care. He got elected, he delivered on health care. And we did not spend enough time explaining to people exactly what we had done. And I remember and I still old state senator down in South Carolina, Marsha Williams said to me one time, he said, now Clyburn, this was after I lost in that house race. He said, now you need to run again and the next time you're going to get elected. But I want you to promise me the next time you run, you tell the people what you're going to do for them. And by God, when you get elected, you do it. And then you go back to them and tell them that you've done it. I think about that a lot.

[Andy Beshear]

I call that getting dirt on your boots.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Absolutely. So we told the people what we were going to do and we did it. And we did not go back to them to explain to them everything that we had done. So we lose 50 some odd seats in the next election because the other side defined the Affordable Care act, misdefined it, but they did it. Then they come back, what, eight years later and we win overwhelmingly. Running on the Affordable Care act and on healthcare. Absolutely.

[Andy Beshear]

Your kids having coverage up to 26, not being able to get kicked off for a preexisting condition.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Look, my late wife spent 30 years battling diabetes. I saw her insulin monthly insulin bill. She was a four shot a day diabetic, a shot with every meal and a shot at bedtime. And she was spending 6 to $800 every month on insulin. So when you come with legislation that allows insurance coverage, they pay for things like that. And that diabetes led to a five vessel bypass surgery, a stroke, total kidney failure, and just ordinary people cannot afford that. The Affordable Care act made healthcare for so many people not just accessible, but affordable. And so we should not have allowed the other side to falsely define that bill. People got it, now they want to keep it. We just saw elections up there in New Jersey, what was the big issue? Affordable energy. Up in New York, big issue, affordable housing. Down in Virginia, the big issue, affordable education and nationally affordable health care. And so when you can make everything that we have that's great in this country accessible for all of our citizens and affordable by all of our citizens, you have done what you were elected to do.

[Andy Beshear]

I think that when some people look at politics, they can overcomplicate it.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Absolutely.

[Andy Beshear]

They can suggest that you send out 50 different messages to 50 different subgroups that they create when if you can't afford your child's next prescription. Nothing else matters.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Nothing matters.

[Andy Beshear]

And it doesn't matter your background or your politics. Whoever can help you pay that bill is who you'll vote for.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

That's exactly right. Absolutely.

[Andy Beshear]

And I think we saw that in this last set of elections.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

That's exactly what it was all about. A lot of people looked at Virginia and I've mentioned Virginia and New Jersey here.

[Andy Beshear]

I love you talking about the governor's racist.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Yeah, I thought that those two women did an exceptionally good job.

[Andy Beshear]

Former members of Congress, both of them.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Former members, both of them very good friends of mine. And I spent a significant amount of time in both states trying to help them get across the finish line.

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[Andy Beshear]

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[Andy Beshear]

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[Representative Jim Clyburn]

You feel good because you don't just wear jeans, you live in them.

[Andy Beshear]

Find great jeans starting at 29.90 in stores [e-mail] so I believe as we head towards 2026, we've got at least two things that the Democratic Party needs to do. Number one needs to flip the US House of Representatives because we've seen that Congressional Republicans just won't do their job and be that check and balance that our framers created and that we rely on. But the second thing I think we've got to do is flip a lot of governor's seats.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Absolutely.

[Andy Beshear]

Because if we want 28 to be fought in more than five battleground states with zero margin of error, that takes having some governors in places right now that we don't.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

That's exactly right. We've got to concentrate at the state level. The governor's racists and the state legislative racist as well. We got so happy over electing Barack Obama, we forgot that every two years there was going to be an election. And a lot of those elections are going to be in the state houses and the state legislatures. We lost over 1,000 legislative seats during his eight years in office.

[Andy Beshear]

Oh, we definitely saw that in Kentucky.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Absolutely. And then we wonder why these congressional district lines got so tortuous. That's how they happened.

[Andy Beshear]

So as another Southern elected Democrat, I often get asked the question, how do Democrats win in the South? So I'll turn that one over to.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

You just the way I just said, here is what this proposal that I'm laying out here will do for you. Here is what it will do for your family, and here is what it will do for your community. Whatever it is that you're proposing, you lay it out so that every voter can get a clear understanding of what this proposal will mean for them and every voter. Interested? Well, I should say I hope everybody would be interested in their families. And here is how your family fit into this and here's how your community is going to be impacted. And I think that when you do that, you can get voters to pay attention to you. Not all this esoteric stuff or the pie in the sky stuff. No, make it personal. Here is what this housing proposal will do for you. And read through the litany.

[Andy Beshear]

So we got to spend a little bit of time at Selma this year at the 60th anniversary.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Wait, let me tell you something. Your speech there, I don't think you saw me until you were through. I was back in the back of the room because I had gotten to the breakfast a little late. It was an incredible speech. I told everybody.

[Andy Beshear]

Thank you.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

It's one of the best speeches ever. You know our chair, the honorary chair of that Faith and Politics Institute, and John Luce and I met as 19 year old college students. We spent our entire lives as very good friends. He met a librarian and so did I. And Leon and Emily became very close friends. So John and I spent a lot of time down at Selma. Your speech was one of the best ever.

[Andy Beshear]

Wow, that's very kind. For me, just being invited was special. To have the opportunity to be a Southern governor, marching with people, trying to do the right thing instead of having state police on the other side of that bridge. This is something that you do every year. Tell our listeners what you think Selma means to America and what that commemoration should encourage us to do.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

I think people should really give a lot of thought to exactly why those people were on the bridge on that day. Everybody talks about John Lewis. He was the moral leader of the group. Hosea Williams was more the prophetic leader of the group. But those were just ordinary people marching across that bridge. At the time that March took place, March 7, 1965, only 3% of African Americans in the entire state of Alabama were registered to vote. So that march was all about presenting a petition to the state of Alabama and a message to the country that we are not a part of this great democracy. We want to be a part of this great democracy. Democracy because we are present, but not apart. And so I go back every year. This year we are going to go, but we are also going to include Charleston, South Carolina, where those nine souls lost their lives because of hatred. This young man made it very clear that he was in that church murdering these nine souls because he said it. He wanted to start a race war. We should not be at war with each other, and we should not allow a climate to exist that anybody would feel that way. And that's why we go this summer, every year to rededicate ourselves to the proposition that we can petition our government.

[Andy Beshear]

Without violence, that there is no enemy from within.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

None.

[Andy Beshear]

So along those lines, you've written a new book.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Yes.

[Andy Beshear]

This is your third.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

My third book.

[Andy Beshear]

All right. I'm still just trying to get to one. So your third book. Tell our listeners about it. And for YouTube, hold it up if you want to.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Well, this book is called the First Ape. And this book came about as a result of people with the mistaken belief that I am the first African American to be elected to Congress from South Carolina. There were eight before me. And I decided after writing my memoir back in 2014 that my next book was going to be about these eight people, trying to introduce them in such a way that people would know who they were. Well, in the middle of this book, the 2020 election came. And the reaction to the 2020 elections, those people trying to set up alternative sets of electors up in Michigan and Pennsylvania, down in Georgia. And I decided that this book had to be about more than introducing eight people, because what I saw on January 6, 2021, is exactly what happened after the 1876 election. Then I read approximately 2025. And I remember from my studies the edge Field plan that was written back in 1876 to overturn election, to deny people the right to vote. And that SVR plan written by a guy named Martin Witherspoon. Gary was used, in my not so humble opinion, to write what became Project 2025. So I changed the direction of the book and really, literally started all over to talk about these eight people, what they were challenged with and by how that lines up with what's going on today. Just as close to a map as you will ever see in this book says to the reader, what's going on today is not new. It's happened before. And anybody who believes I do, that history has a way of repeating itself, and we are repeating some of that history. However, it doesn't have to be the same result because it repeats itself. Hopefully, we will listen to George Santillana, the Spanish philosopher, who said to us, if you fail to learn the lessons of history, you're bound to repeat them. Hopefully, we've learned some lessons. This book is an attempt to demonstrate to people that lessons learned ought to be put to practice.

[Andy Beshear]

So you're trying to show people real history. Yes, warts and all. While this current administration is going through and, in many ways burying important parts of our history, we're downplaying them, which.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Is the dumbest thing you could possibly do. You know, whatever has happened, has happened. Our history is what it is. You can never change history. You can be dumb enough to try to ignore it, but you got to learn from this. I mean, and when I say to young people, I just left over the University of Louisville, I say to young people, look, our history is what it is. Nobody needs to be ashamed of this history. Nobody sitting here created that history, but everybody sitting here can learn from that history. And that's why I wrote the book the way I did, so that people can see how this history lines up with current history and what we can do to make sure that the results that came out here. For instance, three big incidents during this time were settled, each by one vote. The Andrew Johnson who was President Johnson was impeached for ignoring the Civil Rights act of 1866, not listening to what Congress was saying, trying to overturn everything that Abraham Lincoln had done. And when the impeachment got to the Senate by one vote, they failed.

[Andy Beshear]

Not convicted. By one vote, by one vote.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

And then when the election of 1876 got thrown into the House of Representatives, it went in the House of Representatives because you had to have 185 electoral votes to be elected president. And Tillman of New York had 184, one vote short. And when the House couldn't figure out what to do, they put together a committee to study the issue and come back and make a recommendation. A committee voted 8 to 7 to bring an end to Reconstruction by giving those votes to Rutherford B. Hayes. And when Hayes got those 20 votes that were in dispute, he went from 185, 165 to 185 and got elected president by one vote and started Jim Crow. So Jim Crow became the law of.

[Andy Beshear]

The land by one vote.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

By one vote.

[Andy Beshear]

Tell our listeners where they can buy the book.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Almost any bookstore I hear from people all over the book is very prevalent and is doing well in the bookstores. Or you can go on Amazon.com or you can go to Little. Brown is the publisher. And those who can use the Internet use it the first eight. And every time I popped it up, it pops up in this book as well as my last book, the Memoir.

[Andy Beshear]

So they can order them both.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Order them both. They make great Christmas presents.

[Andy Beshear]

As we close out, just a few major topics that we always talk about. Tell us your view on the President's tariff policy.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

I think that anybody that mistakes a tariff for anything other than a tax that's going to eventually be paid by the citizens, you miss the history of tariffs. That's what it is. And the country is where it is today because of this. I think not well thought out tariff policy. Now, this is not to say I'm against tariffs. I'm not. I'm against the misuse of tariffs. And that's what's going on here.

[Andy Beshear]

This isn't another country dumping EVs like China wants to.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Absolutely.

[Andy Beshear]

This is the president angry about a commercial being on during the World Series.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Which can you believe that is going.

[Andy Beshear]

To be really hard for the Supreme Court to say is an emergency?

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

You know, Canada has been not just a neighbor but a partner. And there are a lot of things coming into this country from Canada that if they were to take reprisals, it will cost the American citizen dearly. And to get angry over commercial. I never talked to people in China what they thought about some of the president's commercials. I'm sure they don't find them very acceptable.

[Andy Beshear]

Well, I know that Canadians had previously loved two things. Number one, the United States and number two, Kentucky bourbon. Because of the first, the other is suffering.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I don't want anybody to. It's not a bourbon. It's more of a whiskey. But I'm a Jack Daniels guy. So I've endeared myself to the Brown family here in Louisville over the years.

[Andy Beshear]

But we've got to get some other blends in front of you, too, Some other good Kentucky bourbons. What about. I can't call it what the President called it. What about the big ugly bill?

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

That big ugly bill is one of the greatest miscarriages I've ever seen. What we have done with that bill is make all these things I talked about earlier less acceptable and less affordable. That's what it does. And we did all of that in order to give the wealthiest people in this country another tax break, to extend the tax break that none of them need. And to do so, we cut food for children. We have done. We reduce health care for citizens. And when you look at what we did with things like Medicare, putting a cap on insulin at $35 a month for people who can't afford 6 and $700.

[Andy Beshear]

And by the way, should have never cost that much.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Absolutely.

[Andy Beshear]

Inventors sold it for $1.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

$1.

[Andy Beshear]

That was going to be their contribution to the world.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

And here we are making all of this money off something that only cost the country $1 for the rights to.

[Andy Beshear]

That made me so mad when I was Attorney General, I sued a couple of companies.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Oh, yeah.

[Andy Beshear]

Oh, yes.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

That's great. That's great. I'm sure you won those lawsuits.

[Andy Beshear]

Those were still moving when, as you know, my successor came in and did not pursue them with the same vigor.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Well, you know, that's the whole thing. This country, I do believe, is unlike any country I've been all around the world. I've not been to every country, but I've been enough to know that we have here in these United States of America an experiment that we call democracy that is working and working very well. Not always to your favor or mine, but enough for always allowing this pursuit of a more perfect union. We're not perfect. We'll never be perfect. But we should always be in pursuit of perfection. And this big ugly bill has done tremendous damage to that pursuit and that we ought to be very careful of.

[Andy Beshear]

And it's especially going to hurt your state and mine.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Oh, yeah. We can't do much in South Carolina without our ports. And the stuff that moves through those ports in South Carolina, we are becoming. It's not Detroit anymore for the automobile capital. We've got BMW, we've got Mercedes Benz. A lot of people don't know, but that Sprinter is made in North Charleston, South Carolina. We've got. I drive one of those cars that is made just a few blocks from my house. And Scout Motors has just broken ground. I'm going to be with them with another plan on December 8th that's coming there because of Scott Motors. So when you got Volvo, BMW, Mercedes Benz, Scott, and you come with these tariffs, it's going to be devastating to our economy.

[Andy Beshear]

So I was on Fox News arguing against tariffs and I still remember the anchor saying, well, do you think it's fair that there aren't any American cars on the road in Japan? And I said, well, I'm not sure that's true, but it's more complicated. And she thought she had me. And she said, how? And I said, well, the biggest Toyota plant in the world isn't in Japan. And she even leaned in and said, where is it? I said, georgetown, Kentucky. These are American jobs?

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Absolutely.

[Andy Beshear]

Sure. Foreign direct investment, foreign owned company. But that's how business is now. It's global.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

That's exactly right.

[Andy Beshear]

Those are your citizens who are employed at those facilities doing what we really want. I mean, the assembly are good jobs, right?

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Absolutely.

[Andy Beshear]

So I can hear a little bit when you talk about South Carolina, your why we always ask our guests not just the what, but why you do this, why you're willing to battle it out in D.C. right now where it's got to be as toxic as it's ever been.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Well, you know, I love South Carolina. When I was growing up, as you can imagine, I give thought to the 82% of my classmates from South Carolina State left the state. That was a tremendous brain drain. I decided to follow the advice of a teacher I had in high school who happened to have been white. Mrs. Lukes said to me, you need to stay here. You need to make a contribution to helping make South Carolina a better place. And so I stayed in South Carolina and I believe in that state waltz and all. I don't agree with everything that takes place in Columbia or in Washington, but I have an obligation, I think, to help right those things that I see as wrong and do it in such a way that the atmosphere would be for other people to follow.

[Andy Beshear]

At a time when a lot of people are worried, what gives you hope?

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Well, I'm a South Carolinian and I live by our motto While I breathe, I hope I grew up in apostates. And I define my faith in the future by the 11th chapter of Hebrew. In that very first verse it says, faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen. And so my whole thing is I may not see it, but I have hope that the evidence will be clear at some point in the not too distant future.

[Andy Beshear]

I so feel like we as Democrats need to reclaim faith absolutely in both. How we talk, but also explaining our why to people.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Sure. And, you know, to me, that's very important. I chair the House Democrats Faith Working group, and I tell people all the time, we Democrats often refer to ourselves as Matthew 25 Christians. And what we are focused on, though, is verses 40 and 45, what we do or did not do for the least of these. But if you look at the entire chapter of Matthew, there are a lot of things taking place that should be instructive before you ever get down to verse 40, one of which is the parable of the talents. And it admonishes us that it is our responsibility to use whatever our gifts are, whatever our talent may be. Now, I know it was a modicum of money at the time it was written, but a talent today is a gift that he ought to be using to get God's works done. So I say to people all the time, we ought not leave our faith on the sideline. We should practice that faith to the fullest extent. And remember over there in the book of James, my favorite book of the Bible, maybe because of my name, but James, in the second chapter of James, we are told that if your brother or sister comes to you hungry or naked, it's not enough just to pray for them. You got to feed them and you got to clothe them, because faith without works is dead. And so I live by that. And I think, and I've asked for this job to help Democrats bring their faith to the fight.

[Andy Beshear]

So your dad, my granddad, was a minister, and great granddad, too, baptized people in rivers and streams in western Kentucky. He would preach that passage, and then he'd say, on Sundays, we get down on our knees and pray, but then it's time to get up on your feet.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Absolutely.

[Andy Beshear]

And put that into work.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

My dad used to say it a little bit differently. He said, son, you pray every day for good health and strength, and if the good Lord gives you some modicum of both, get up off your knees and go to work.

[Andy Beshear]

And that always brings me, to whom much is given, much is required.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Absolutely.

[Andy Beshear]

That when you are blessed, when God's blessed you with good health and great family, you have that obligation to give back.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Yeah. And that's why I named my memoir Blessed Experiences. And I said in the introduction to that book, all of my experiences have not been pleasant, but I've considered all of them to be blessings. And I learned that from my dad, who taught me that I was obligated to do God's will. And everybody had a different way of doing it. When I told him that I had made up my mind not to go to the seminary that we had often talked about, he said to me, using Edgar Guess's poem, well, son, I think the world would much rather see a sermon than to hear one. And so that's as politicians have got to make sure that our constituents see in our service a good, productive sermon.

[Andy Beshear]

So with all this wisdom, tell our listeners one more time about the book.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

The first eight go out and get it and make a great Christmas gift. And I think that everybody reading this will get a very clear understanding of what is happening around us here today in Washington, and you will get a good idea about how we can overcome this.

[Andy Beshear]

Representative Clyburn, thanks for joining the podcast.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Thank you so much for having me.

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[Podcast Co-host or Guest]

TikTok for business is helping owners like.

[Andy Beshear]

You reach new customers every day.

[Commercial Narrator]

We saw up to a 10x return on our TikTok shop ads a few years ago I started sharing my love for fashion on social media and Willow Boutique was born. We're not just a place to shop, we've really become a community. TikTok allows us to find more people to to have that great experience. I cannot imagine my business without TikTok. It's completely changed my life and I could not be happier.

[Andy Beshear]

Head over to get started.TikTok.com TikTokapps. You're listening to our Thanksgiving episode of the Andy Beshear Podcast. I'm thankful for this year with this podcast and I'm thankful for the guys who helped me start it. So on this Thanksgiving edition, we would of course have our conversation with the Johns. This is my conversation with John Rabinowitz and John McConnell, two great friends, folks of different parties, but all of us wanting the best for our country and always being willing to have a civil conversation, which I think could be a good example for the rest of the world. Happy Thanksgiving, guys.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest]

Happy Thanksgiving.

Happy Thanksgiving. And what a journey. And I am thankful that we have gone on this journey together when we thought from inception, what could go wrong?

[Andy Beshear]

What could go wrong? So on this Thanksgiving edition of the Andy Beshear podcast, the world of politics is upside down. Things we never thought we'd see. Donald Trump praising Mondami, him in the White House and Trump saying he'll do a great job, meanwhile excommunicating his former cheerleader biggest supporter, Marjorie Taylor Greene, who now says she's going to resign from Congress. What's going on?

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

I don't know.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest]

It is kind of Twilight Zone esque, a little confusing. I am. Let's start with New York. I am very thankful that at least the mayor of New York City can agree with the sitting president on affordability and focus on issues that matter. And I'm glad that I've heard at least that Trump is not sending ice in to New York City to regulate. So there are some really strong points, but I'm just glad that they're talking.

[Andy Beshear]

So what we kept hearing was if Mondami won, that the Republican Party would make him the face of the Democratic Party, that everybody's pictures would morph into him, that somehow all Democrats because of one winning election, would be socialists. Can they do that now that President Trump has embraced him?

[Podcast Co-host or Guest]

Well, Andy, on top of that, if you noticed, he was asked questions and Trump would answer the questions to protect him from that from some conservative journalists. So I think it's going to be very tough.

Well, and you go from Trump saying he's 100% communist, we can't let him have this to all of a sudden I'm going to help New York and I want to see it succeed.

He still has businesses in New York. Let's not forget about that.

[Andy Beshear]

That's true.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest]

That's a good point. Yeah.

[Andy Beshear]

So let's turn to the other side. Marjorie Taylor Greene.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest]

Yeah. MTG 110% behind Donald Trump for the longest time and all of a sudden comes out and she spoke a lot about health care, what's going on, and the Epstein file.

Do you think there's a big divide in the GOP right now?

[Andy Beshear]

Anytime we start talking about the Epstein files I think it's really important to at least for a minute, remove the politics, to say that human trafficking is a horrific crime, that it typically involves the rape of young women or even children repeatedly over multiple years. And so the most important thing is that perpetrators are held accountable and that victims find the healing and the services they need. But this has become such a wild political issue that Donald Trump, as a candidate, embraced what we thought might have been conspiracy theories, becomes president, does a 180, and says it's a hoax. But I do see the strength of all those survivors that are up there on Capitol Hill just demanding a little bit of justice. That's to see, to see them have their voice, to see them move Congress and even break through partisanship that no one else was able to. I hope, I hope after everything they've been through, they found that empowering.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Amen to that.

[Andy Beshear]

Yeah.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest]

Do you, do you think, though, is she resigning because she sees a swing in the midterms and does not think she can get elected in the primary without the endorsement of Trump?

I mean, do you think she could see that far ahead of what's going to come down?

[Andy Beshear]

I just can't. I just can't imagine how much your foundation would be shaken if you'd have been a 100% supporter from the beginning, the most vocal, and all of a sudden, that person you've pushed for so hard not only removes their support from you, but starts attacking you. Now, that's how everybody else feels when he attacks them. And so I hope this is also a moment, whether it's her or others that can say, no, it's wrong when he attacks people other than me, just like it's wrong when he attacks me.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest]

That we ask everyone what their superpower.

[Andy Beshear]

Is on this show.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest]

I do want to hear about this every time.

So he has always said making a Thanksgiving turkey is his superpower. Now I can say I witnessed this in action. And we do have pictures of the turkey, and he actually did make a delicious turkey for a Thanksgiving meal.

It wasn't ordered out, is what you're telling me.

It was not.

[Andy Beshear]

Superpower confirmed. Here are the photos. All right. As we wrap up, we talked about it, I think just a little on a previous episode. But now the country is out of the shutdown. Federal workers are back at work. They've received back pay. What are your thoughts overall on what unfolded?

[Podcast Co-host or Guest]

You know, I can't tell really who won or who lost this. I think that the people that suffered was the American public. I am thankful that the workers are receiving their back pay and that the people that were fired are getting their jobs back. But it's unfortunate that we had to deal with a partisan divide that affected so many Americans.

And when you look at possible economic loss of, what was it, $14 billion in this time frame, I mean, when you think about the winners and losers, Andy, what you're feeling.

[Andy Beshear]

So there's never a winner in a government shutdown. But I do think there were two losers in this one. The first were congressional Republicans that said, we are not going to take action to keep people's health care coverage costs from going up. They voted to extend a tax cut for the wealthy, but wouldn't vote during this to extend a tax credit for health care for a lot of hardworking middle or lower middle class Americans. But the other loser has to be the President because he's the first one ever not to fund food assistance during a government shutdown. That's just people going hungry. It's not only a bad look, it's bad policy and people suffer.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest]

Well, I mean, listen, I think we all were affected by the travel delays as well, like millions of people. And to your point, the SNAP benefits, it was horrible what people had to go through. You know, there is one other thing we're thankful for this week. Andy, what are you, 29?

[Andy Beshear]

38?

[Podcast Co-host or Guest]

This week's your birthday. We are very thankful for your friendship and for what you do for our commonwealth. And as a token, the show here has brought you a birthday cake. We didn't have enough candles.

[Andy Beshear]

48 years young.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest]

Well, happy birthday.

[Andy Beshear]

That would set off the fire alarms. Oh, wow. Here we go.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest]

Happy birthday to you.

[Andy Beshear]

Live music on the Andy Bashir podcast. Sing right into it.

[Representative Jim Clyburn]

Hey.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest]

Dear Andy, happy birthday to you.

[Andy Beshear]

Well, thank you all. And we just learned why we have a conversation with the Johns and not singing. As we wrap up this Thanksgiving episode of the Andy Beshear Podcast. I realized this is our second podcast episode with cake. So thank you to the podcast family for wishing me a happy birthday. Thank you to everybody out there who's done the same. I'm thankful today for a great episode. Representative Jim Clyburn is a titan of Democratic politics, and just listening to him reminded all of us that we should keep hope, that we should keep pushing for a better world, and that we've got great leaders to work with and work alongside of to try to create that better world that all of our kids deserve. And I know that this is just Thanksgiving, but as we look ahead to Christmas, we've got a gift from the Andy Beshear Podcast. This Saturday, we're dropping our first Best of Episode where you'll hear from interview portions from Amy Klobuchar, Chris Coons, John Calipari, and others. We hope you've liked all these episodes in the past, but if you haven't caught them all, catch this first Best of episode. We think you'll like it.

[Commercial Narrator]

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