Andy Beshear (3:18)

You were actually born in Argentina and you immigrated to the US at age 5, became a citizen at 16. How does that impact your views, especially on what's going on in the area of immigration in the United States right now?

David Pakman (3:34)

Well, I'm really sensitive to the idea of doing it the right way, the legal way, which is what my family did. We also had the benefit, or the luck, I guess you would say, of the green card lottery when my dad got a job in the United States, but still needed to get one of the limited number of green cards at the time. So on the one hand, I'm very sensitive and supportive of the idea of doing it legally. And also I recognize that this idea that everybody is just willing to uproot and come to the United States and it's an easy thing is really not true. I mean, going to a place where in many cases you don't speak the language, where you don't know anybody, this is not something that people just do on a whim. And I think that that's missing from a lot of the discussion around immigration in the United States, which is really the sort of human element of strikes

Andy Beshear (4:33)

me that you chose to become an American, to be a part of this democracy. Do you think that's maybe why it hits you so personally when there are threats that we see to our democracy right now?

David Pakman (4:47)

Absolutely. I mean, that is the foundation part of which was how my family came to the United States and how I ultimately became a citizen. And so I don't think you can really pick and choose the parts that you like and the parts that. That you don't like. And that's what I think is so dangerous about this sort of selective application of so much of the law under this administration. There are a lot of great things about the United States, and this is something that I think is important for those on the left to talk about as we talk about the things that aren't working so well and the things that need to be improved. And I have no confusion about the fact that thanks to a lot of the things that are great about this country, I was able to come here, get an education, start a business, which has become this show that I now do and do successfully. That's all great, and it's in a sense, unique to the United States and also it's okay to want it to be better. And so I think it's an important thing for the left to push back on when the right likes to say, if you hate this so much, why don't you go somewhere else? Well, we don't hate all of it. And in fact, our ideas come from wanting it to be even better.

Andy Beshear (5:59)

So you've been kind enough to have me on your show, and we talked about something that you and I both separately have said as well, that Democrats got to a point where we did not communicate well. I think talking at people, sometimes talking down to people who do you think out there is getting it right? And what does the party still need to learn?

David Pakman (6:24)

There are a lot of people getting it right. One of the things that I think we can be really optimistic about heading not only into 26, but 28, is that this is a very, very deep bench of articulate, thoughtful people, sort of from across the left spectrum. I mean, there are folks more in the center left, there are folks on the further left, all of whom are really good representatives of the policies and ideas that they think would be best for. For the country from a communication standpoint. There are a lot of people that we see doing a really great job. In addition to having you on the show, I've had Gavin Newsom on the show, Josh Shapiro. I was recently with JB Pritzker out in Chicago. There are members of the House and Senate as well. So many different people that I think are doing a good job. The thing I think is going to be not difficult, but interesting going into 2028 is not that there's going to be a shortage of people, but there. There are actually going to be so many choices that initially the primary may sort of look like the Republican primary of 2016, where you'll have a lot of people with 2, 3, 4% support. And it's going to be a question of who really has the staying power and ability to consolidate that support.

Andy Beshear (7:39)

I think that that could be potentially advantageous to Democrats. I look back on 2016, and I remember friends of mine that had never voted Republican for president watching those debates and then having this conversation. Well, if I did, which one of them would I vote for? And I think we saw some folks who had that same level of curiosity learn enough to vote for one of those individuals.

David Pakman (8:05)

I think that's right. And I am not a fan of the idea of gatekeeping in these primaries. I think it should be in all of the above. Let the ideas be presented. I think that there's Like a practical question as to. I don't know if you remember when there were like the A team debate and the B team debate, which I think is difficult because in practical terms you might do really well on that B team and never make it onto the A stage. And a lot of people just don't hear your ideas. There's 25 candidates. I genuinely don't know how you manage that. But I think that especially because so much trust has been lost among Democratic voters with ideas of the DNC putting their thumb on the scale in past primaries, which is debatable. But if there's the perception that that happened, that's what matters. I want a super robust primary. And my idea is that if you come out the winner of a robust and tough primary, you're way better positioned to win a general rather than if there's three people and no one other than the sort of de facto leader has a chance. I don't think that that's good for the party. I think the robust, tough primary is the best, best way.

Andy Beshear (9:09)

As I look at going into the midterms, we think about what the biggest issues for people are, and certainly affordability is what we hear about every day. But I worry that we're kind of political sciencing that term, that that's becoming our new food insecurity. The idea that we need to be talking about people not being able to pay the electric bill, the amount that their car insurance has gone up. And it seems like there's a different straw that's breaking the camel's back in different states. What's that one that just pushes you over the line? How do you think that Democrats should be talking about affordability?

David Pakman (9:48)

I think there's a couple things that are important. One, as you're kind of alluding to speaking in clear and simple terms, is number one. And also using that to compare and contrast what's happening to the promises that were made.

Andy Beshear (10:04)

Right.

David Pakman (10:04)

It may be the case that inflation is 3 rather than 4%, but if it's more than zero, prices are going up. And the promise that Republicans said Trump would deliver for everybody was that prices would go down. Now, a lot of us who understand that deflationary situations are actually really rare in American economies and they usually coincide with economic downturns. We suspected that that wasn't going to happen unless things got really bad. But if this is the promise that they made, we should be holding them to that promise. And speaking simply, the promise was prices down, and what we've gotten are prices up. The other aspect to this that I think is really important though is perception is reality. And one of the things we could say didn't work well for President Biden and during when he was running for reelection and ultimately for Kamala Harris, is that just showing people economic metrics and saying everything's cool. If people don't feel that and believe that it doesn't work. The Republicans are doing the exact same thing now, which is saying everything's great and people don't believe it. Whatever circumstances are at the time of the election, Democrats need to address realistically and not just go everything's great if that's the argument that they're trying to make.

Andy Beshear (11:16)

Yeah, I've always felt that same way about public safety. People would say, I don't feel safe. And certain officials would say, oh no, violent crime has gone down by 3% each of the last four years. Well, if Democrats want to be the party where mental health is just as important as physical health, if you don't feel safe, we've got to do something about it.

David Pakman (11:34)

100%. And I think there's actually one idea here that goes above economic, public safety, immigration. Not that those aren't important, but what I'm thinking of is, is there a way to sort of unite the electorate and maybe pull in disaffected independents, disaffected Trump voters? I think it's an anti corruption agenda that's credible and has four or five specific things that Democrats would do which are not arguments as to when do you believe life begins or transports or these things where many people have strong opinions, but the opinions differ. The level of corruption that we've seen under the two Trump presidencies is bleeding over even to people who voted for the guy three times. There's videos of them being interviewed saying, saying, this is not what I voted for. I think that an anti corruption agenda that is credible with we're going to stop the self dealing. You can never be a lobbyist if you hold federal office. There's like a list of four or five that would be developed. I think that is the most potential to really bring over non traditional democratic voters in 2028.

Andy Beshear (12:39)

Give us your current predictions for the midterms.

David Pakman (12:43)

I think the House is mostly. Now let me caveat this. This is all like Democratic. If we actually go and vote. If we don't go and vote, none of this, none of this matters. But based on the polling and betting markets, it seems that the House will go to Democrats. If we have the expected amount of turnout, it could be 20 seats. That flip, it could be 40. There's some less likely but possible scenarios where it's 60 seats. So I think if everything remains sort of as it is, with a lot of failed promises from the Trump administration and economic instability, I think the House goes to death. Democrats and I think the Senate's going to be competitive. Right now there's a lot of sort of 5050 talk about the Senate. It is an uphill battle. The map isn't great for Democrats. But as I've said before, if Republicans are forced to dump money into defending what should be relatively safe seats, even if they do keep the Senate by a tiny margin, it's still a victory to deplete them of cash they should have been able to hold on to.

Andy Beshear (13:41)

So I have a theory that is also beneficial, since I'm head of the Democratic Governors association, that governors races this year are just as important as those federal races. And I have to tell people that. But I believe it. Because if we look at 28 and then we look at 32, if we don't expand the map, if we don't put some other states in play, if going to go from very difficult to almost impossible in the presidential elections.

David Pakman (14:14)

That's right. And what I think a lot of people don't understand, only because people are busy and they're not necessarily thinking about a lot of these things, is that the 50 governors in a sense affect the day to day lives of Americans so much more than who's Your representative in D.C. it's not that the representative in D.C. isn't important. They're just working on different issues and in different ways on what's happening in your community day to day as sort of administrators of the state. I've explained to a lot of my audience when they think about, hey, you know, I'm in Mississippi and I have a trans daughter. And here's what's worrying me. The environment that Democratic governors in other states have set up may do a lot more for changing the day to day for your trans daughter than what your member of the House can necessarily get done in a term. So the point I'm making is I always am talking about the significance of governors, especially on the day to day lives of the residents of states.

Andy Beshear (15:16)

I remember there was a time that it dawned on me when somebody would say, you're one of 50. I recognized that, no, you're one of one. You are the only governor of that state. And the relationship, if you really put in the work that you can have with the people of your state, really Special. I mean, you can actually make life a little easier and a little better by hustling each day, whether it's the new jobs or the new road, the new clinic opening up in their community. Now, you are also a New York Times best selling author. I've said I want to join you in that club. Your last book was called the Echo Machine. Tell us about that.

David Pakman (15:55)

The idea of the Echo Machine essentially is to tell the story of how partisan media got to where it is. And a lot of that story is unfamiliar to folks. That starts with talk radio and how talk radio licenses were swept up by large corporations and a lot of right wing broadcasters and how that flows through Reagan, into Bush one, Clinton and Gingrich becoming speaker of the House, really all the way up to and through Donald Trump. And Trump was not this random, unpredictable thing that just dropped in. He was really the coalescing of 40 years of things that we tracked and we followed. That's one part of the book. We then delve more deeply just into how modern partisan media disinforms and misinforms to a great degree. And it's going to lead into my next book, which is not a partisan analysis, but really just the media analysis of the digital platforms and the effect that AI is going to have to have on this. So there's really this bigger story, which is the area I specialize, which is the messages we get from media and social media and how that affects our relationships in the real world.

Andy Beshear (17:09)

There was a chapter that jumped out to me in your book. The title was how to Fight Against a Movement that has no Policy. Now, there's no question that Democrats know the what the policy maybe too well. And they don't talk about the why enough. But, but why shouldn't having better policy, which could get better results, why shouldn't that be enough?

David Pakman (17:32)

Well, the issue that we often run into on the left is that we start the debate with Republicans and with the right based on the principles and policies they tell us they support. We are for liberty and we are, this is what the right says. We are for life and we are against business regulation and we're for the Constitution. And we engage in what's mostly a theoretical debate. But these are principles that they abandon as soon as they're inconvenient for what they want to achieve. I mean, just think about the business regulation 1, for example, during Trump's first term, they violated that in so many ways. As soon as it was inconvenient when social media platforms, private companies said, we have terms of service that say what you posted isn't okay. And we can do that because we're a private business. The Trump administration said, well, we're not so against regulating you guys. Actually, we do want to tell you exactly, you have to publish this stuff. And so the point is, I think it's a waste of time to get into these philosophical black holes, as I call them, debating principles that they don't even really care about when the rubber meets the road and, and they will abandon right away. That's part one of it. Part two is the policy part that you talked about it. The policy has to connect in an emotionally salient way with people's daily lives. And one of the things that was sort of really interesting about Trump's men and women sports stuff during prior campaigns is that it really got his crowds fired up, even though it was statistically irrelevant. And what I mean by that is 0.6% of the population is trans. Only a slice of that is the age during which they'd be competing in sports. Only a slice of that actually competes in sports. You've then got to eliminate the so called women and men's sports because they don't actually care about that. So the issue is, when the NCAA looked at it, we're talking about zero to two athletes per state, if you can believe it. The idea of this fired people up totally disproportionately from the reality of it. And so I think that that's, that's the issue a lot of times for the left and for Democrats, which is that there are a lot of policies that make perfect sense, but they're not emotionally salient in a way that they become voting issues.

Andy Beshear (19:52)

You know, as I, as I think about how the lack of policy or conviction by many of our elected Republicans has evolved over time, I'd even suggest that Mitch McConnell was the architect of change any position to win any additional Senate seat. But the Trump administration has taken that and said, change any policy if it makes me or my family more money.

David Pakman (20:17)

Yes. So there's the personal corruption thing. There's also, I mean, listen, just a few days ago, I think there was a seven or nine minute period during which Donald Trump was answering questions about Iran, during which he said, I don't want a ceasefire, I do want a ceasefire. We're basically done. We're ramping up missile strikes. The issue is regime change. This is not about regime change in a seven or nine minute period. And so this is, there is a time past where that sort of inconsistency would have been a problem. I mean, think back to 2004, when John Kerry, having changed his position on the Iraq war vote, became the biggest story that there was.

Andy Beshear (20:59)

He was a waffler right about it

David Pakman (21:01)

when it's Democrats and not Republicans. But this issue of consistency, Trump's throwing it out the window. He'll just take every position on an issue and voters can just pick the one that they like.

Andy Beshear (21:10)

So that was your last book. Tell us, because you mentioned it, about the book you've got coming out and tell people how they can pre order it.

David Pakman (21:18)

You can pre order it anywhere books are available. Amazon, Barnes Noble, bookshop.org, the book's name and the concept is pay attention and it has a kind of double meaning. Number one is the attention we pay increasingly more and more hours every single day to what's happening on our social media platforms, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, etc. The other side of it is the degree to which the attention we pay is what's being monetized by these platforms. And so I'll talk about how going in because you want fitness advice or a recipe can lead you through into extremist right wing content, the manosphere, etc. That's one aspect of it. I also deal in this book with what AI is going to do in terms of the creation of synthetic content, what it's going to do to political races, when someone could clone your voice, for example Governor and robocall people in Kentucky saying anything they want it to sound like you're saying and sort of how that is going to filter through and trickle down and quite frankly cause a lot of chaos.

Andy Beshear (22:28)

So tell us when the book comes out.

David Pakman (22:31)

We don't have a publication date yet. It is very, very late in September or early October is where we're targeting.

Andy Beshear (22:38)

So that means that our listeners can purchase both, pay attention and go and do likewise. Also available wherever you pre order your books at the same time for two good reads. You know, a lot of people I talk to and one of the reasons we started the podcast are feeling mental health impacts from this administration and how the news hits them over and over and over. What do you do given that you are immersed in it constantly to make sure your mental health is in a good place?

David Pakman (23:11)

Well, one of the principles that I've been researching and writing about is that our consumption of news media should really be intentional and proactive. And one of the things that just seems to be the case is that people are used to consuming based on time of day or mood rather than oh there's something I want to watch and that's how you end up endlessly scrolling. And that's not really a great thing. So what I do is when I'm done producing my Friday show, I don't consume any news media until it's time to start producing and planning my Monday show. And does this leave me uninformed? I mean, listen, when something really big happens on a weekend, I hear about it. Family or friends tell me it's not like I'm completely in the dark. But I think deciding here is when I am going to consume this stuff and here's when I'm not is critically important. The other thing is it's okay not to be informed about everything that's going on. And the truth is that a lot of the things that are going on in the world, especially very far from us, it's not that they don't matter, they do matter, especially to the people that they affect. But we're not going to be able to do something about every single issue that's going on. And I think it's important to sort of be okay with. I don't need to be fully versed in every single thing that's happening. I'm not going to be able to fix every single problem. And sort of thinking about what sort of engagement with news media can I have that's relevant and actionable to what's happening in my community? And one of the things about news media is that it makes you believe that everything is of critical importance for you to know and be involved in all the time. This is how 24 hour news networks are sort of developed. We need to keep the breaking news going. I would challenge that notion and really tell people, here's my area, here's what I care about, here's what I'm going to pay attention to, and it's going to be related to what I can actually have an impact on.

Andy Beshear (25:05)

So I decided a couple of weeks, weekends ago that I was going to take one weekend off. I was going to turn it entirely off. And I woke up the next morning and we were at war with Iran.

David Pakman (25:16)

Yes, that can happen. That usually doesn't happen though.

Andy Beshear (25:20)

Yes. And as we're here, you know, multiple weeks after that, I've come to the conclusion that this was the least planned war in our lifetimes. And that includes Afghanistan, Iraq. While there didn't seem to be a plan for day two in Iraq and Afghanistan, there didn't appear to be a plan to even give Americans abroad time to get home before this Tell us your thoughts on the war with Iran.

David Pakman (25:55)

I think that is exactly right. I was super clear with my audience that as an anti authoritarian progressive, I have been against the Iranian regime for as long as I've known what it is. And this is really not about that. It's about whether it is in the interests of the United States and its allies for Donald Trump to do this and to do it in this way. And what's been revealed over the first few weeks of this thing, thing is that whatever whichever of the stated goals you choose to focus on, because they've changed depending on what's going well and what's going poorly, they're not being achieved and whether it was the destruction of the nuclear capabilities which were supposedly obliterated in June, but I guess they kind of weren't annihilated, they were rebuilt very quickly after being annihilated. Exactly. If it's regime change, well, the son of the Ayatollah is now at the

Andy Beshear (26:50)

head of the regime even more radicalized than before.

David Pakman (26:54)

Exactly. If it's the ballistics missiles capabilities, well, maybe. But that really undercuts the idea that this was so urgent that Trump needed to circumvent Congress because the ballistics missiles can't reach the United States. So the point is the objectives are a real question mark. The effect on the economy has been a disaster.

Andy Beshear (27:13)

Yes.

David Pakman (27:13)

Gas prices up 44% since mid January. Imagine if under Joe Biden, gas prices spiked 44% in two months. I mean, it's, can you imagine what we would be seeing on Fox News in that environment? The Strait of Hormuz situation is of course, a disaster and everything is going to get more expensive as most things are shipped through means that are affected by oil and gas prices. And what you now see is this panic from Donald Trump who needs to find some way to say we did win, but we're getting out. Please fix the economy and figure out what he can do to get stock prices back up as People's Forces 401s are collapsing. So not only was it poorly planned, there was zero consideration apparently for all of the ways in which this could be terrible for Americans in the United States, all of which are coming to fruition.

Andy Beshear (28:05)

When I think about the impact of the Trump administration on an American, I think about a farmer right now, Donald Trump's tariff policy has eliminated the largest market for soybeans and they are decomposing in the bins they're rotting and, or they're having to burn their crop. Thinking about what bankruptcy means Losing that farm that's been in their family forever. Meanwhile, the price of diesel has gone up enormously because of the war in Iraq. I mean, in Iran, that if their corn crop is going to be better, it's at the least going to cost a whole lot more. I think about the biggest payroll in their community is the rural hospital and how that's likely to close or at least be significantly cut back under the big ugly bill, which may then shut the restaurant, the coffee shop, the bank, the insurance company. You know, sadly, the policies of this administration are hitting the reddest parts of America the hardest.

David Pakman (29:11)

That's exactly right. And one of the things that, you know, I was kind of chuckling to myself. I've spent 20 years being straight with my audience and saying when it comes to gas prices and inflation, there's not that much presidents can really do. When you're talking about that, let's be careful with blame and credit because it's about global business cycles and things outside of the control of a president. But. But right now, Jerome Powell just said half to three quarters of the inflation the country currently has is because of the tariff policy and optional policy. The gas price spike is specifically because of the decision to go into this optional war with Iran. So after spending 20 years saying Republican, Democrat, usually they have very little that they can do about these issues. Donald Trump has figured out a way to actually do all of the optional things that mess with those issues.

Andy Beshear (30:04)

I always also thought that a president couldn't do that much to help or hurt the economy. I know I was half wrong. He can certainly do things that really hurt an economy.

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Andy Beshear (31:14)

How big of a deal. Do you think it is that Joe Rogan is saying publicly that he feels betrayed by the Trump administration for Iran?

David Pakman (31:23)

So I've covered the manosphere with reversals. I guess we could call them extensively. There's other guys up there in kind of that same space, Andrew Schultz and others who have said, hey, this is not what we signed up for. This is not what we were promised. Here's my view on it. Anytime someone is willing to reconsider their opinion, especially when they would have to publicly say, hey, I thought it was going to be A, it turns out that it's B, I think that that should be welcomed and that should be a good thing. We don't want to be ridiculing or insulting people when they say, hey, I've reconsidered, rather than just digging in and saying, I'm never changing my view. That's awesome. And I think that that's a great and an important thing at the same time. It's not that these things were unpredictable. Tens of millions of people predicted. When Trump says I'm the anti war guy, it's just something he's saying. He's not really the anti war guy. When Trump said, I'm going to end the Ukraine, Russia war in a day, he's not really going to do that. When Trump said he's going to lower prices, he's not going to do that first term. The wall with Mexico that Mexico would pay for, that's not going to happen either. So I think the important thing is to say it's so great that you're reconsidering your views, you're coming to your senses, you're realizing you may have made a mistake. And also, you did get duped, and that wasn't mandatory. You, like tens of millions of other Americans, could have realized these are promises, these are checks that can't possibly be cashed. So I think we've got to do both. We can't let them off the hook. But we still want to say it's great that you're reconsidering.

Andy Beshear (32:50)

In many ways, I feel the same way about Trump voters that in the end, I don't even want to show judgment because I want this country more stable. I don't want to go through this ever again. And I know a lot of them that feel really betrayed, that felt a close connection in some way somehow with the president that promised him a lot of things and has now done the exact opposite. I guess I feel that way because I want this country to be healed the idea that your neighbor is the enemy from within, I think it's just about the most dangerous thing I've ever heard.

David Pakman (33:29)

I think that's right. And then I think it's also important because there was another wing that was saying Trump, Harris, not different enough for me to really care. I don't even know that I'm going to go and vote. I think we now have five, six major things that Donald Trump has done that Kamala Harris never would have done. You know, I didn't find Kamala Harris to be the most compelling candidate. I didn't think the campaign was particularly well run. But the idea that it wouldn't really have made a difference for people, I think has also really been debunked at this point. And I think it's important not to forget about that either as we go into this next election. And just the importance of not staying home.

Andy Beshear (34:13)

Now, your audience is much bigger than the Andy Beshear Podcast. But for our listeners and viewers that don't currently follow you, tell them how to watch the show.

David Pakman (34:25)

It's on just about every platform. If you want my long form audio podcasts, it's on Spotify and Apple podcasts. My long 10 to 12 minute video clips are on YouTube. We publish short clips to TikTok and Snapchat. We've kind of gotten all of the above media strategy to try to just be wherever people are looking for political commentary.

Andy Beshear (34:47)

And as we close out, tell our listeners about that new book one more time.

David Pakman (34:51)

Yeah, so it's pay attention and it's going to be available late September, early October available for pre order. Now. We're offering a whole bunch of free freebies with pre orders. It's so early I don't even know what they are. But if people pre order now on Amazon or Barnes and Noble, you'll get all of the freebies once we figure out what those are going to be.

Andy Beshear (35:11)

Thanks for joining the podcast.

David Pakman (35:12)

Thanks so much. I really appreciate your time.

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Andy Beshear (36:20)

You're listening to the Andy Beshear podcast. And now my conversation with the Johns. This is when my partners in this podcast, John Rabinowitz, John McConnell and I break down the news of the week. It's the idea that as friends, we can process even the most complicated issues, even though we come from different backgrounds and even different political parties. There is a lot to cover this week, but I want to start with the war in Iran because we are now more than a month in. I know the White House doesn't like to use the word war, but, but he used it in the very first press conference, so I think it's, it's fair. A month in. Let's start. John McConnell, what, what are your feelings about where we are?

John McConnell (37:02)

Well, I think we're all starting to feel it right now. Now that we're a month in, you're seeing prices start to move up. And John, I think you probably have more cars on the roads than any of us right now. So are you seeing, seeing the gas pinch there at the house?

John Rabinowitz (37:16)

Listen, I will say it is, it is staggering. Not just gas prices on vehicles, but like traveling, I will tell you that, like plane tickets, you can see are going up. They're cutting, in fact, cutting routes, I think, to save money, which is a real problem. And I'll tell you where I am with everything is I'm still kind of confused as to it seems like we're, I hear we're making progress. But then at the same time, he, I think today came out and threatened their energy and their water. So I would say I'm a little confused.

Andy Beshear (37:47)

Well, right now, what we seem to have is diplomacy through truth, social. We see these threats being made there and then whether they're followed through or not. But, but this shock to oil prices could have been prevented or at least reduced. They had to know that Iran was going to close that strait where so many of the world's oil tankers go through. But it appeared they were unprepared. And then after being unprepared, pushing allies that were never brought into these discussions in the first place, to somehow be a part of a war that they never bought into seemed to be a failure of a strategy.

John McConnell (38:27)

Well, and you, you tariff by truth, social. And then you turn and ask everyone to come help you.

Andy Beshear (38:33)

Right.

John McConnell (38:33)

And send people into a conflict that there is not a plan. You may send in ground troops and then are you going to ask for them to come send in troops?

Andy Beshear (38:41)

This is a lesson that if you attack your allies, they're probably not going to say yes when, when, when you need something. And by attack, I mean if, if, if you badmouth them repeatedly and Davos and, and everywhere else. When you question that NATO alliance and then launch a war without consulting or seemingly to consult any of them.

John Rabinowitz (39:02)

Well, you know, to, to John's point, you hear Rubio say that, you know, Trump's plan is still diplomacy, but at the same time we have thousands of troops headed that way and our special forces headed that way. So the real question, you know, will there be ground forces used? Do we have to, to hit his 15 point plan? I just don't know.

Andy Beshear (39:23)

Well, and we've already lost 13American soldiers, including two from Kentucky. But I think the question on ground troops is really important because today we filmed this on Mondays, Trump talked about taking the, the island where so much of the energy infrastructure is in. And that would undoubtedly take ground troops. And I heard at least one commentator, they're not a political commentator. They're on, on, on world affairs say that that's what Iran wants. They want to try to, to kill as many American troops as as possible, thinking that the American people will view it as too costly. And this is the exact type of thing they're hoping will fall for, no

John Rabinowitz (40:09)

doubt, gas prices up, stock market up and down, disruption. The American people are upset about it. With no clear plan of where we're going and how to get there.

Andy Beshear (40:20)

And did what does winning look like? Just change. Because remember, in the beginning it was regime change and then it was kind of those four part tests. Then it became unconditional surrender and today it was maybe we'll seize the oil. What's clear is that they never had a plan for what victory looked like in the first place.

John Rabinowitz (40:42)

Yeah. And has there really been a regime change?

Andy Beshear (40:48)

Only if you consider a father to maybe a more radicalized son.

David Pakman (40:52)

Yeah.

John Rabinowitz (40:52)

Yeah.

John McConnell (40:53)

Only change. It really has it.

Andy Beshear (40:54)

So one response that we've seen in the United States, though I do think it was planned earlier, are these no Kings demonstrations and marches all over the country right now it looks like over 8 million people turned out in more than 50 states.

John McConnell (41:10)

And when you look, I mean, I think I watched it up here over the weekend. The number of people showing out with flags with Everything else they brought with them, especially ones in D.C. it was just amazing how many people showed up. And I guess one question is, is that how long do these continue? Is this going to be something we're going to do for the next several years as they. And are they going to continue to grow?

John Rabinowitz (41:34)

Well, if the reports are correct, this is the biggest one of the three so far. It included, I guess in some of these places, the younger generation was out because of this war. There was, I guess, complaining, not complaining. They're stating that like the draft could come back. And so I don't see it slowing down. It seems to be well funded and well organized. I just, I don't know what impact it is having on this administration, if any. They're just saying it's Trump derangement syndrome.

John McConnell (42:03)

Yeah.

Andy Beshear (42:03)

What I noticed was a little bit of what John Rabinowitz just said, but the other side as well, you know, you have young people who would be first time voters. You have people out there who are their grandparents and they are all at the rally now holding different types of signs. But these rallies, in the very least, our enthusiasm and our energy that you would expect are people that will vote Democrat or certainly not vote Republican in this next set of elections. And so I think everything that we are hearing leading up to the midterms, that this is going to be a really rough midterm for, for Republicans, is bearing itself out in these rallies. But I guess I just close by saying regardless of, of which group it was, a turnout by this many people is a great expression of the First Amendment. Now, this is something that our country protects. And people being able to get out there and speak out for what they believe in, in these numbers is pretty special.

John McConnell (43:06)

And it seems like Trump's own policies, as he decides them from week to week, continue to make these grow. Because when you first started, you had a lot of people who were upset with ice, especially when it all first began. And then all of a sudden, anyone who's going to come out and protest against a war, well, we started a war with Iran. It just seems to keep building on itself.

Andy Beshear (43:26)

John Rabinowitz, you recently flew through a public airport. Tell us about your experience.

John Rabinowitz (43:32)

I will tell you I lucked out because my buddy was flying in from New Orleans and he said if you did not have clear at that time, it was above a five hour wait to get through security. Now this is about a week and a half ago. He took him about three hours. Took me, I was going down to Orlando. Took me about two hours. It Was shocking how bad it is now on the way back, the Times had they approved, I was not there. ICE had just been sent to go down and help out. I guess they were first couple days they were handling handing out waters, and I'm not sure they were really helping TSA that much, but I guess now it's a little bit more under control. But it's still. It was a crazy nightmare that I experienced.

Andy Beshear (44:21)

So this nightmare inside our airports is caused by a partial government shutdown where the Department of Homeland Security hasn't been funded. And if you go back to the last government shutdown, both sides were arguing that it was the Republicans, no, it was the Democrats, and that was the cause of it. What's amazing about it this time is there were multiple bills filed to prevent this from ever happening again, and the Republican majority wouldn't pass them. I mean, there were people bills in between the last shutdown and today that said TSA gets paid no matter what, and they never moved. And then since this has started, the lengths that Mike Johnson and President Trump have gone to own it have been really surprising. Trump said don't, don't accept a funding deal unless you pass my Saves act, which he says will, will rig the election. And then the Senate Rs and Ds get together and they say we can't have lines this long. They, they pass funding just for TSA and say we'll argue about the rest later. And the House refuses to take it up. I mean, in many ways this is magnifying the blame.

John McConnell (45:36)

And now I think they're actually, I

John Rabinowitz (45:38)

think it's interesting is that I think TSA workers again Monday began getting paid today because of an executive order that Trump issued. And my thought is like, why didn't this happen a week ago?

Andy Beshear (45:50)

On day one?

John McConnell (45:51)

Yeah, on day.

John Rabinowitz (45:52)

This is crazy.

John McConnell (45:54)

On day one. And now all of a sudden, like you mentioned, John, you've got ICE officers inside the airports as well. And I guess the question I would have is, do we feel that they're going to leave the airports once TSA becomes fully funded?

Andy Beshear (46:11)

And will we get all the TSA workers back? Yeah, I mean, a lot of them, after going through multiple rounds of this and having to work and not get paid, have probably looked for other jobs. We should have resolved this a long time ago, both for security and for people not to have to be in those incredibly long lines.

John Rabinowitz (46:29)

Yeah, it's crazy.

John McConnell (46:30)

It is.

Andy Beshear (46:31)

All right. CPAC just occurred in, I think it was Texas where Wiki note Speaker Andy, you know, they didn't invite me this year. Maybe next year. I'm sure that crowd would be in. Not even a nod. But a couple of different things were going on. I think we saw a fisher for the first time in folks at CPAC over the war in Iran. And then we got to hear a little the back and forth between who is the heir apparent, J.D. vance or Marco Rubio.

John McConnell (47:05)

I think recently, didn't you visit Jeff, J.D. vance's hometown?

Andy Beshear (47:09)

Possibly I did.

John McConnell (47:10)

Okay. Okay, I heard that. So how did that go?

Andy Beshear (47:14)

We sold out.

John McConnell (47:15)

Okay.

Andy Beshear (47:15)

It was a huge room of people who believe that this vice president is just as responsible for tariffs, raising the cost of everything, of rural hospitals or clinics, shutting down, of the cost of gas because he won't look at his boss or the president and say, I disagree with you. And he won't say it publicly.

John McConnell (47:37)

Hey, John, get your opinion on this. It's the first time in a decade Trump did not show up to cpac. Do you think?

John Rabinowitz (47:44)

Listen, nor did Elon with his chainsaw patch, nor other celebrities. I think they had last year. It seems like the, the crowd has kind of dipped in. Really kind of interesting to see. Like, what does America first mean to this group? It's much different, I think, last year than it is this year. It seems to some of the members.

John McConnell (48:02)

Yeah.

Andy Beshear (48:03)

Apparently the pledge of no new wars meant this morning

John McConnell (48:10)

no new wars could get started today.

Andy Beshear (48:12)

Well, we had some good news in Kentucky. I think we ought to always have some good news. We talk about. I was able to announce last week that we had our best first quarter for economic development in our history. Over $4 billion in approved projects. 3 billion have already signed and are moving forward. So despite the tariffs, we are creating good jobs. I mean, last year our average wage for a new job was almost $30 an hour. And we're actually increasing manufacturing jobs while we're seeing it shrink nationally and Kentucky keeps growing.

John McConnell (48:49)

Why do you think Kentucky is still growing with the momentum we've had while other states are struggling?

Andy Beshear (48:55)

Because we have an amazing governor. Not sure who he is right there.

John Rabinowitz (49:00)

Good grief.

Andy Beshear (49:02)

It's, it's. Well, I mean, if anybody's watching YouTube, you've got your restaurants hat on and your law firm shirt on. So I thought maybe, may, maybe I'd, I'd, I'd pump myself up a little bit.

John Rabinowitz (49:14)

Brandon. Governor.

John McConnell (49:15)

There you go.

Andy Beshear (49:16)

But, but I think it's, it's. We put in the hustle. We've got a very personal relationship with these companies. We get them up and running faster than just about anybody. Else we put in the work. We're also at a great spot for logistics in the United States. If you're going to deliver by interstate rail barge or air cargo, we've got what you need.

John McConnell (49:40)

Perfect.

John Rabinowitz (49:41)

And Andy, are you guys constantly out recruiting new businesses?

Andy Beshear (49:46)

Always.

John Rabinowitz (49:46)

That's some of the things you do when you go on these trips.

Andy Beshear (49:49)

Always you think about, when I went to Japan and South Korea, we announced $800 million of new investment from Toyota. My trip to Ireland, England and France, I think has four different announcements now, including the biggest one ever in one of our counties, or at least in 30 or 40 years. Those trips are really important because you go see the international CEO at their headquarters, you can thank them for their jobs, or they can look you in the eye and you can convince them that you can get this done for them. Now, it is a team sport. I will say there's no Democrat or Republican in economic development. I work great with our Republican county judges, our Democratic county judges, our mayors that are nonpartisan. And so when you can push away all the stuff that we disagree on and focus on the things that. That we should all be for, you can really get a lot done.

John Rabinowitz (50:45)

You know, this time of year, with Keeneland starting in the derby, right around the corner, people from across the world are coming into town. And it's funny you say that. What you're just explaining is that when people come to Kentucky, they love. It doesn't matter what county, what town, they see opportunity, they get to meet the people, and they. They can see themselves living here and growing.

Andy Beshear (51:07)

And that's why we're trying to tie our tourism to our economic development and workforce. The idea that tourism is the welcoming mat or the reason you get people in. But if we can show people what it's like to live here, to be a Kentuckian, then we'll get that next project and next one.

John McConnell (51:26)

Well, Final Four, now women's basketball. Our teams are in the state are no longer in. But John, going to get your feedback on who you think is going to pull this out now.

John Rabinowitz (51:37)

I kept thinking, Andy must be so happy that UConn hit that shot last week.

Andy Beshear (51:44)

I was.

John Rabinowitz (51:46)

I. I can't believe 19 points back came back. I'll tell you, Michigan looked really strong. That Arizona. Michigan game. I mean, I think that might be for the championship.

Andy Beshear (51:58)

Yeah.

John McConnell (51:58)

I think with my limited knowledge of basketball for the women's and the men's, I'm going to pick Michigan.

Andy Beshear (52:05)

They're going to.

John McConnell (52:06)

They're going to sweep it.

Andy Beshear (52:06)

Well, what I know is that UK U of L on the women's side, Murray are not going to win a national championship. But neither is Duke.

John Rabinowitz (52:16)

Neither is Duke. And they were loaded with talent this year.

Andy Beshear (52:19)

Sometimes that's enough. And now on the Andy Beshear Podcast, the segment we call in my Kentucky Accent today. I want to talk about the fact that the podcast just made the Daily show, but maybe not in the way we want it to. Desi Lytic, who is a Kentuckian who I think has won an Emmy even for hosting the Daily show at different parts, talked about different social media and podcasts by politicians that she labeled as cringe.

David Pakman (52:52)

Democrats have their own lightning in a bottle.

Andy Beshear (52:55)

Andy Beshear, the governor from my home state of Kentucky.

David Pakman (52:59)

Make me proud, Andy.

Andy Beshear (53:01)

Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Andy Beshear Podcast. This is our pilot and first episode. To make sure that we provide that real show for you, we've made some ground rules. We call them the cast rules. Number one, be authentic. You be you. Boo.

John McConnell (53:19)

Oh.

Andy Beshear (53:22)

Oh, God. You broke the rule while telling us the rule.

David Pakman (53:28)

Nothing is less authentic than you calling someone boo.

Andy Beshear (53:32)

That's a word for black women and gay men in 2011.

David Pakman (53:38)

Why can't you just talk like a real human being?

Andy Beshear (53:41)

Number two, talk like a real human being. Yes, yes, do that.

David Pakman (53:48)

Show us you can do that.

Andy Beshear (53:50)

I mean, come on, Desi. But I will admit I think Desi does understand cringe. Just take a look at her filmography. All in good fun. If I can take a joke, I hope I can give one, too. Desi, we would love to have you as a Kentuckian who has made it big as a comedian and the Daily show host on on the Andy Beshear Podcast. So here is my challenge. Accept it. Come on, teach us a little bit about how to be Les Cringe Podcast. Family. I hope you've enjoyed this episode of the Andy Beshear Podcast. As you can tell, we've tried to be a little more upbeat, maybe be a little less monotone. Why? Because my daughter, Lila Bashir, who taught us do it for the plot, called me and said, dad, be less monotone, Lila. At least I'm teachable. I hope that you are enjoying all the content we're putting out. Remember, you can follow us on the Sirius XM app. You can listen to us on Sirius XM progress Saturdays at 11am you can download this podcast wherever you get your podcast, but we need you to go to our YouTube channel. Hit subscribe. Watch some of those videos. It's what helps fuel this podcast. And remember, there is plenty of merch. Nothing tells somebody that you care about them like an Andy Beshear Podcast mug, an Andy Beshear Podcast shirt, or of course, the Andy Beshear Podcast tote bag. Don't be without one. Everybody else has them. I hope you enjoyed the episode and we'll be back soon.

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