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- [00:08]
Andy Beshear
Welcome to episode 10 of the Andy Beshear Podcast. You can download us on all major platforms or watch us on YouTube at Andy Beshear Podcast. This, our 10th episode is pretty exciting. We've got governor and former Vice presidential candidate Tim Walz as well as Pinterest CEO Bill Reddy, who is also the creator of Venmo. We're going to have some great conversations in this episode that are real, that don't debate reality and that get into the why of both that governor of Minnesota and also what drove Bill to go from working in his parents auto body shop to ultimately starting some of the best known companies in, in the world. Let's get to it. Our first guest on this episode of the Andy Beshear Podcast is the governor of Minnesota and former vice presidential candidate Tim Walz. Tim, welcome to the podcast.
- [01:14]
Tim Walz
Governor, it's good to be with you.
- [01:16]
Andy Beshear
It's good to see you. You have had a busy week. Your son graduated from high school. You had what I think is your 34th wedding anniversary.
- [01:27]
Tim Walz
31St, but we'll make the 34th.
- [01:29]
Andy Beshear
All right, I like that. And, and you are in the midst of a special session. Tell us about this, this wild week.
- [01:37]
Tim Walz
Yeah, and I'll add one more. Gus's team made the inaugural state tournament for boys volleyball, one of eight teams across Minnesota. So yeah, wild week. We're in a legislative session, special session. Just so you know, Andy, you know a little bit about this that you got to work in a bipartisan manner to when you really want to get things done. My legislature is as split as any legislature in the history of this country has ever been. Our house is tied 6767 and our Senate is 3433 with a one vote Democratic Farmer labor majority, which means 101 to 100. We've got to pass every single bill. We've got to balance our budgets, which states do, unlike the federal government. And by tomorrow, you know, sometime this week we're going to, we're going to have all our budgets done. We're going to have a balanced budget, we're going to invest in Minnesota. So I think I appreciate you all the time. You talk about solutions, you talk about how to get things done, you talk to where real people end up and they just want us to do our work. So yeah, it's been a busy week. Personally. It's been exciting. 31 years with my best friend Gwen. I got my final child out of, out of high school. And we're going to celebrate his state tournament appearance. So it's exciting.
- [02:50]
Andy Beshear
So you're in this special session to balance your budget. And as you mentioned, we as governors have to have balanced budgets. There is this big, not so beautiful bill going through Congress right now that you and I both know would not only add trillions of dollars to the, to the national debt, but could potentially blow a hole in our budgets. Is that making your session a little more complicated, knowing that it could upset all this hard work?
- [03:18]
Tim Walz
Yeah, it is. And you know, take for example, Medicaid, just basic health care. 40% of our children are on it, 70% of our nursing home folks in rural Minnesota, that's $1.2 billion. My budgets are roughly $33 billion a year. So, you know, you're talking a big hit just in that. And then you move to other areas and then rescinding projects we already have in the, in the hopper, like bridge projects and things. What I'm telling my folks is we've got to deal with where we're at, stay in our lane. We need to pass it based on what we know today. But I think anybody prudently thinks to the future, you prepare for what's coming. And I would suspect, I don't know, I'd be interested to hear what you think if this thing, this monstrosity and atrocity as, as even Elon Musk called it, if it passes, I think we'll all be back in special session because there's no possible way to be fiscally responsible like each of the states are.
- [04:14]
Andy Beshear
I think you nailed it. The Medicaid cuts will impact states, but they will also shutter a lot of rural health care. You can't take coverage from 16 million people and all the revenue that goes with it and remove it from that system without laying a lot of people off. The numbers I've seen that will impact at least Kentucky first are the changes to snap. You know, it adds administrative costs, and in Kentucky, that's about 66 million extra dollars that we'd pay. And then it shifts the burden and changes the error rate in a way that could add another $300 million for us. Add on top of that not getting at least yet the public assistance after natural disasters, and we're well over a half a billion dollars if not pushing towards a billion dollars of extra costs.
- [05:07]
Tim Walz
Yeah, I think what, you know, Andy, about the SNAP program is how beneficial it is. Some folks try and message this as being a. A program for those who don't want to work. The reality is it's for children, it's for adults, especially a lot of seniors who use it in my state and have catastrophic impacts. It's not just about them cutting the money. It's a lack of a market then for my producers who produce the food that goes into the SNAP program.
- [05:35]
Andy Beshear
You're watching the Andy Beshear podcast. Our guest this week is Governor Tim Walz of Minnesota. Tim, we always try to follow a couple rules on this podcast. One is no debating reality. So thank you for the facts about Medicaid and snap, because others will try to put that disinformation or misinformation out there. One of the other rules is we try to get to our why. What drove us to seek these jobs? What drives us to, to make the decisions we, we make. And, and I was thinking about, you know, your background and, and your life had to have been significantly impacted by losing your father at such an early age. I think you were, you were 20.
- [06:17]
Tim Walz
Yeah, I think as my little brother was eight. I think I was 19 somewhere in that age. But they've been sick for a while. You and I talked about this. You, you know what this is. And look, Mike, I'm very proud of my parents. My, my dad's family were German immigrants. They ran a meat locker in Takayama, Nebraska. He was the first generation to go to college. Before he did that, he served for a couple years in the army during Korean War era. He used GI Bill, get a college education. And my mom's family were farmers and we were, I think like so many of us of a certain age, we all were pretty much middle class in America. No, I didn't know anybody who I felt was rich. I knew somebody who had ridden on a plane once and you had one friend who went to Disneyland. But the rest of us were right in the middle. But my dad got cancer and the bills were pretty insurmountable. I mean, I now all these years later talk to my mom, who, by the way, just celebrating her 90th birthday.
- [07:12]
Andy Beshear
Wow.
- [07:13]
Tim Walz
Yeah. And she was a rock and got through this. But I mean, your point is of like how we end up, where we end up and how we're shaped by our past. I don't feel like my parents were particularly political. I mean, they weren't activists. They weren't. But they were involved in the community like advocating for building a new school. I think the polit. My first political kind of what I knew how my parents probably voted was is we were Catholic and we had a big picture John Kennedy in our house. That had more to him being Catholic, I think, than being Democrat. That was that's how things were done. But I think my. My family understood that, you know, the community mattered. And I always said, especially after watching my father die and then my little brother and my mom make it basically on Social Security survivor benefits, and my mom going back to work as an aide in a nursing home, that I kind of always said this. I didn't go to the Democrats. The Democrats came to me, and they provided that. And then there was Pell grants and the GI Bill, because I had joined. My dad before he passed, said, you need to join the National Guard. You know, he served in the Army. And look, when you're 17, I don't think you can necessarily say you're doing things out of patriotism. You just did it because my dad told me I was gonna do it. That's kind of how things worked. But he also was thinking ahead and said, look, this will give you some advantage to be able to go to school, and you'll get to learn a few things. And so I think watching programs, seeing how, you know, how they lived, makes me think now that I didn't really question what the Democratic Party was. I know we're having a bit of an identity struggle and. And popularity problems wasn't about being popular, and it wasn't about being partisan. It was about, boy, it made good sense to have some money there for a widow and a young child, and they were willing to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. We just didn't have any boots. And so that's why I think it just was smart. And while those things of losing a parent when they're younger, that's where society kind of comes in. We're not all in this alone.
- [09:13]
Andy Beshear
Oh, amen. I was just thinking about how, like me, though, my family was probably a little more political. You followed in the footsteps of your dad. You served in the National Guard in multiple states, and then you went into education because I believe he was a superintendent.
- [09:31]
Tim Walz
He was. He was a math teacher to start with, then went in.
- [09:35]
Andy Beshear
I always wonder what's harder being a teacher and a lunchroom monitor or serving as governor for one of our states.
- [09:43]
Tim Walz
Well, I will tell you, there's great joy in both those jobs, but it shapes who I am. I. You know, I think it's interesting, Andy, you'd say that you come from a family of service. I mean, that's your. And when you're younger, you say, oh, I'm not going to do what my parents did. I. I thought I wanted to be a geologist at one point in time.
- [10:01]
Andy Beshear
Or I thought I was going to be an archaeologist, you know, in Indiana Jones.
- [10:06]
Tim Walz
Yes. I mean that's kind of with me too. I'm thinking that. But I thought about and watched my parents and the thing I really appreciated about them was, is the respect for public education and knowing that that was a key to getting somewhere. And I think the chance to use a GI Bill and become a teacher and look, it's a, it's a noble profession. And I think as, as far as Americans go, I wouldn't, I don't know if necessarily politicians give them the respect they deserve, but you're respected in your community and, and I, I think there's something to be said about that because you have the awesome responsibility of people hand off their most precious thing to you, their child, and they walk through that door and that's the most precious thing in their life. And I always saw it as a teacher. I better deliver for them, I better do the very best I possibly can. And so I think my parents, you know, it was a different generation. I said my, I don't remember having in depth conversations. Like I said when my dad told me I was going to join the National Guard. That was about the convers. You trusted their guidance.
- [11:07]
Andy Beshear
So you're teaching, you're coaching, and along comes the John Kerry campaign.
- [11:14]
Tim Walz
Yeah.
- [11:15]
Andy Beshear
And what inspired you to really get involved for the first time in a political campaign and you eventually became what, your county chair for that campaign?
- [11:26]
Tim Walz
Yeah. And I'll just be candid, Andy. I think when you're doing all this stuff I super busy doing, you're teaching. My wife and I were working on our, our doctorate degrees. We were, we were doing, you know, we were going to school, we had a baby, Hope was three. And I was deployed for the better part of a year in 2003 and 2004. I got called up to support the operations in Afghanistan by being sent to Europe and my battalion was spread all the way across from Turkey up to Great Britain. And I was just to be very candid, very frustrated with how things are being laid out in, in the war post 911 that you know, how were we focused? What were we doing? Why were we in Iraq versus Afghanistan? And look, when you're a soldier, you do what you're told, you follow, you follow the lawful orders. But I came back home and said, look, there's frustrations here. I had my differences with the Bush presidency and it all started just kind of innocently enough, I guess. I had some students wanted to go see George Bush was coming to Mankato and I had just returned back from this deployment, and their parents said, hey, we're going to be out of town. Would you mind taking them to this rally? And I'm like, heck, I've never seen a president like that. And not in Mankato. I think Grover Cleveland maybe was in Mankato. It was unprecedented. And I said, yeah, I'll go out there. And, you know, long story short, these kids were hassled. They were turned away. And I said, well, I'm going to go in. And, you know, they said, well, you know, you need to behave yourself. Just insulting to.
- [13:02]
Andy Beshear
To a teacher and a student.
- [13:04]
Tim Walz
The teacher. Yeah, like, look, at the end, they said, you know, you're going to be detained by Secret Service. And now I'm getting worried my wife's going to be mad. Here I am in trouble, you know, not meaning to be. And I remember saying, you know, look, I'm the football coach here, and I'm US Teacher of the Year. Last year, they didn't care. And here it was getting called out for just wanting to see the president. You don't have to agree with the president. They asked me to agree with him, and I said, that's none of your business. But I wanted to go see what he had to say. And obviously, in my hometown, in front of my neighbors, as a teacher, as a coach, as a member of the National Guard, I'm not going to do anything other than exercise my constitutional rights. So I got fired up about it. I called somebody and said, can I help with this campaign? I ended up being a volunteer to do that. And then somebody said, well, you guys did pretty good job with that. Mostly. My wife, I think they were talking about, she did a good job. And they said, you should run for Congress. And I ended up running for Congress in a. A seat that was at, you know, I guess we now say was solidly read, but I thought there were better ideas there. Got elected to Congress and did that for 12 years.
- [14:08]
Andy Beshear
Well, you and I both know a little something about running in tough areas. Tell us a little bit about your focus during that election. Because I think people get caught up in the issue of the day, in whatever the shiny ball is that's been thrown out in Washington when most people care about whether they can get by, whether they can take their kids on a vacation, whether they feel safe in their communities.
- [14:33]
Tim Walz
That's right. And I felt the focus, you know, and rightfully so. 9, 11. Like I said, I fully supported, you know, George Bush had a 90% approval rating for a reason. We rallied around the president, but it became clear that the focus was changed on that. We had scandals like Enron and other things happening. And it felt like to me, I focused heavily on. We had a whole lot of troops coming back from war and. And we had a system that wasn't ready for them, especially around, you know, post traumatic stress. I don't know. And I don't think maybe some of your viewers don't know. We wouldn't even bury a troop with honors if they lost their life by suicide. It was like we were embarrassed about it. And I just felt committed to doing that. I asked to be on the VA committee. I felt like we were underfunding things like transportation, just basic. So I very much was a meat and potatoes guy or openly critical of the Bush administration. But even at that time, I also thought it wasn't government's place to be in your personal places, whether that be reproductive health care or who you choose to marry. And that was a very unusual position at the time, especially in a rural area. But I think it resonated with my neighbors. They're like, it's really not what we should be focusing government on. And so I had a reputation as being a very bipartisan member. They always ranked them, and I was always, I think, top 10 most bipartisan. When George Bush called and needed a vote on the debt ceiling, which is just operationally, but everybody wants to make it big political, I supported him. When he asked to talk to me, I would. I would talk to him and. And try and help all I could. So I was very proud. I think I was a good member of Congress. And a lot of people at the end of that 12 years said that I think. I think you could do this as governor. And I've been blessed to have two terms as governor of Minnesota.
- [16:22]
Andy Beshear
Tell me about making the decision to leave Congress. You've been there a while. It was a pretty safe seat by then for you. I think you had a chairmanship, which people work a long time to try to get. But you saw what I think is this great job as governor and made the call that that's where you thought you could make the difference.
- [16:41]
Tim Walz
Yeah, it's interesting you would say that. You knew it, too, and you've got the experience at state level as an AG and understanding that. I think by 2018, it became pretty clear to me that the real decisions were going to impact people, were going to be made at the state level. The partisanship was becoming so much greater. You know where I saw myself, I spent most of My time sitting on the Republican side, just because I knew a lot of people, I didn't agree with them. I had a friend, a Republican congressman from California, who, because of that long flight, he lived out there because he had kids in high school. He invited me to Friday night tailgates with his family and then to go watch football games. He and I worked on really meaningful legislation for veterans and for other things, and it was a really enjoyable experience. I think by the time I left, you know, they tried to make, you know, everybody's an enemy. It's all about the politics of personal destruction. And I felt like governors don't have that luxury as we started out. I've got a divided legislature. I've got Republican leaders that need to be treated with respect. One, they. They earned it because they have election certificate. But two, I need them to compromise, to vote with us, to get things done. And so I think people get so used to the dysfunction we see at the federal level, which is. But there are glimmers of bipartisanship. Your state is an example of this. You don't agree with your legislature. You do so respectfully, and you gain the respect of those who voted for you and those who voted against you. So I think by 2018, I saw that coming. Now, I will give full credit, Andy, to folks who are in the US House and the Senate trying to make it work. Somebody has to. I just thought my skills might be better served at home.
- [18:21]
Andy Beshear
So I think right now, when we're looking at voices for the Democratic Party, what we bring as Democratic governors is that common sense, common ground, get things done type of approach that we can't spend a year debating. Sub point number three, that our job is to better the lives of our people every day. And I think that your approach and belief in that and mine are why we're both trying to. To speak out, to take this practical approach that says our number one goal should be to help the people of the United States of America live a better life.
- [18:59]
Tim Walz
That's right. Well, when I. Yeah, I see you, Andy, after a natural disaster, no one knows if you're a Democrat or Republican.
- [19:07]
Andy Beshear
And no one cares.
- [19:08]
Bill Reddy
Yes.
- [19:09]
Tim Walz
And you're a dad out there with your arm around some kid who just lost his house. Or worse yet. And so I just think, trying to make the case, and I will again give you full credit for this, I think governors can't use, like, quick talking points, and you can't just dig yourself in partisanly, because I'm going to sign bills that the Democrats are going to be unhappy with, just to be candid. Divided legislature, and I'm going to sign bills that the Republicans are going to be unhappy with. But I can tell you, at the end of the day, they're going to increase the safety, the security, the prosperity and the future of Minnesota. That's what we believe. Is it all what I think we should put in? Of course not. But you know what? We don't. We don't have a king. We have governors, and then we have legislators. And I think watching, especially in times of need, what governors do best. Instead of dividing, you join us together. And, and I also think that, that governors have to speak to everybody in a plain manner. I. I've heard you do this a lot, and I use some of that.
- [20:09]
Andy Beshear
Absolutely.
- [20:09]
Tim Walz
I think when I hear you speak, it appeals to the teacher in me that you can't just teach the same way to a class. Some kids learn differently. And I think Democrats have a problem that we think we've got this message and we're going to speak to one side of this, and then when the voters don't vote for us, we blame the voters. So it might be that they didn't get what we were coming from. Now, it is true that they just may totally disagree with this, but it wasn't that long ago that you could disagree with someone, tell them you voted against them, and go watch a baseball game together. I mean, I kind of think people are hungry for that again, that it, you know, just because you disagree doesn't make you the devil. And I think somehow we're going to have to find that out. And I think states like Kentucky, where they have chosen to put a big majority of legislators who are Republicans, but they still continue to elect Democratic governor. And in Minnesota, we are as purple as you can possibly get.101 to 100 straight down the middle.
- [21:04]
Andy Beshear
This is the Andy Beshear Podcast. We're finishing up our conversation with Governor Tim Walz. Tim, you were the vice presidential candidates last year must have been a whirlwind. I know it took a lot of time away from your family. As you look back, what were some of your favorite moments and what are some things that you think if you could, you would have done differently?
- [21:26]
Tim Walz
Yeah. Well, it was certainly a privilege to be on it. And I've always said I tell them that I think of people who, you know, you serve where you're asked. And I was a privilege to have Kamala Harris, vice president, asked to serve. I think one of the things is, again, and, you know, wishes, if they were for something is just a little more time. And I think what you're doing, Andy, is, is what we should be doing. I think we need to fill every lane. If you want to do big rallies, do big rallies. If you want to do a podcast, do a podcast. If you want to go visit folks and get out, you know, on a bus tour. I just think the problem with the Democratic Party, just assuming people know who we are, they don't know who we we are. And if we don't define ourselves, I guarantee you people like Donald Trump will define us. And so what I learned during that campaign, that there's a lot of things people have in common. They want, like you said it, they want safe neighborhoods, they want good schools, and they want to believe their children have an opportunity to succeed everybody's children. And I didn't matter if I was in Nevada, if I was in Pennsylvania, that basic principle held true. But I'll tell you what I also learned, and I think we're seeing it in this moment right now, is one of the geniuses of our system is a federalism that gives a lot of control to local decision making. And I think when we start to see, you know, an over reliance on D.C. or a centralized type of thinking, that's not how everybody wants their things done. And so it brought me back home to, and I hear this, you know, focusing on my counties, hearing them when they say this, focusing on the autonomy of those counties, make some of the decisions that they need to make. And I kind of wish DC would do that a little more. It used to be we could count on the Republican Party being for states rights. I wish they would get back to that a little more. And I again, I would say listen to folks out there. That's one thing I learned to do better job of, I think, is listening what folks were asking for. And I think they were asking for a chance and to be heard. And I'll just be honest with you, I don't think that's what's being delivered right now. I wish we would have got a chance to deliver on some of the things that Vice President Harris was talking about. But look, that's what governors are doing, trying to make up that difference.
- [23:43]
Andy Beshear
Tim, thanks for your leadership, your friendship. I'd once again urge you to run for re election because we need you. But mainly, thanks for being on the Andy Beshear podcast.
- [23:52]
Tim Walz
Good to be with you, Andy. Thanks for all you're doing.
- [23:54]
Andy Beshear
Good luck in the end of the special session.
- [23:57]
Tim Walz
Thank you, my friend.
- [24:03]
Andy Beshear
Next on the Andy Beshear Podcast. We're joined by Bill Reddy, the CEO of Pinterest and a guy who has both started and sold so many really successful companies. We're really excited to learn his secrets and to get to know him a little bit better. Bill, welcome to the podcast.
- [24:22]
Bill Reddy
Thanks for having me on Governor's Year.
- [24:24]
Andy Beshear
Well, I'm really excited to start this interview with where someone like me would want to start it. Tell everybody where you're from.
- [24:32]
Bill Reddy
Kentucky. I grew up in Hardin county in Kentucky, went to the University of Louisville.
- [24:36]
Andy Beshear
So you grew up in a military family. Tell us a little bit about that upbringing and how it's guided you through life.
- [24:44]
Bill Reddy
Yeah, so I grew up in the Fort Knox area in Hardin county, and, you know, the military upbringing was great, but also my family had been in my dad's side of the family, been in Kentucky for generations. Grew up farming in sort of the Versailles area near Lexington, also down in Cecilia and Hardin county, and so have sort of both those things in the background, both the sort of farming connections as well as, you know, military. And then growing up, my dad had a little auto repair shop in Vine Grove, Kentucky, and grew up working there.
- [25:17]
Andy Beshear
One of the things I love about your story is that you worked for all of it, from worrying about health insurance as a kid to working multiple jobs to get to where you are. Talk a little bit about the struggle, but also how it either prepared you or made you hungry for what you'd later face.
- [25:41]
Bill Reddy
Yeah, I never intended to be an entrepreneur. In fact, quite the opposite growing up in, you know, my mom and dad were small business owners, as I mentioned. And, you know, for some people that means, you know, oh, they had a, you know, chain of restaurants or things like that for us, you know, you know, one location auto repair shop in a small town. And, you know, it meant that, you know, I didn't have health insurance for the first time until I went off to college when I was 18. But it also, you know, taught some really good lessons and values that, you know, on the one hand we, you know, didn't have a lot growing up. On the other hand, you know, great lessons like when we did good things for customers and took good care of customers, then we ate well and if business wasn't good, then, you know, we go to the other grocery store on the other side of the town where, you know, the meat was only expired by a few days and probably wouldn't make you sick. But it created a really, you know, direct connection between, like, do good things for other people, do good Things for customers, and good things will happen for you. And I don't know if I appreciated just how important that lesson was when I was a kid, but it's definitely guided me through a bunch of my career.
- [26:41]
Andy Beshear
Yeah, that's so interesting. I think two episodes ago, we had Coach Cal on and he talked about the lesson that he learned from his dad, who would go out and work hard as if you don't work, you don't eat.
- [26:55]
Bill Reddy
That's right. And that was quite literal in our family. Absolutely.
- [26:59]
Andy Beshear
At least you eat differently. So you are a Kentucky public school graduate.
- [27:04]
Bill Reddy
That's right. North Arden High School.
- [27:06]
Andy Beshear
And then headed to UofL, where when you were in school, you were working two jobs. You worked both at UPS and at a liquor store.
- [27:18]
Bill Reddy
Yeah, I do the midnight to 4am shift at UPS Central, sort chucking boxes. I go sleep a few hours and then do an 8am Computer Science class, go through classes, and then, you know, I go do the second shift at a gas station, food mart kind of place that also sold other beverages. And, you know, I was doing that for the first couple years before, you know, eventually got connected to a serial entrepreneur named Dana Bowers who was looking to start a online banking company during the dot com. And that sort of gave me my first shot at being an entrepreneur and doing something in the Internet field.
- [27:58]
Andy Beshear
Tell our audience how you learned to program, because I think it's a little different than most.
- [28:03]
Bill Reddy
Oh, yeah, well, you know, when I. When I went off to University of Louisville, the dot com was. It was getting going and I thought, well, I should figure out this Internet thing. But I didn't grow up with a computer in the household. You know, grew up, you know, helping my mom and dad, you know, fix cars and things like that. But I thought, well, this Internet thing is probably gonna be important. I should figure that out. And so I decided to do computer science. And at that time, you know, my high school had a typing class, but we didn't learn how to use a computer. I didn't grow up with a computer. So you hear a lot of entrepreneurs like me will tell stories like, oh, they were, you know, tearing down Commodore 64s growing up and things like that. I didn't learn how to compute, how to use computer till I got to college, really. In fact, my first computer science class, they taught us how to code. And, you know, I'd written out my program on notebook paper and, you know, went into the lab at the, at the university to type in my program. And, you know, amazingly, it compiled and Ran and I had to ask the lab tech. I was like, hey, I got to save this thing to a floppy disk to turn it in, but I don't know how to do that. Can you tell me how to save this thing to a floppy disk? He just looks at me like, you wrote this program and you don't know how to save it to a floppy disk? Are you pulling my leg here? And it's like, no, they didn't teach me that in class. And so that was a starting point, but fortunately really got immersed into it and loved it. And that became a lifelong passion.
- [29:23]
Andy Beshear
That's impressive because you and I are that generation that may have gotten our first emails in college, our first cell phones right after college, at least for. For me. And, and everybody that came along, even just four or five years after, had programming and other classes.
- [29:43]
Bill Reddy
Yeah, no, that's exactly right. It was. It was very much a, you know, a new thing, but it was also a pretty formative moment that, you know, much of the what is now we think of as the Internet had not yet been built, but it was a pretty interesting moment that, yeah, I didn't have a cell phone, didn't have email, and most people didn't. And so it was a really interesting transitional moment.
- [30:03]
Andy Beshear
So to go from this moment where you say, hey, this Internet thing is probably going to be important through UofL. Talk about what came next. You were one of the first computer programmers out there at iPay.
- [30:18]
Bill Reddy
That's right, yeah. So working my way through school, and I had scholarships for tuition, but didn't pay for living expense. I was terrified of debt, so that's why I was working my way through. And you know, a couple years in, through a friend of a friend, met a serial entrepreneur named Dana Bowers, also a native Kentuckian, and she had had several successful startups and she wanted to. She was looking to build an online banking company and, you know, couldn't find. Couldn't find engineers to help with that or needed more engineers to help with it, but it was just getting going. And so, you know, she asked me, hey, can I help with that? And I was less than a year removed from not knowing how to save that program on a floppy disk. But all I was thinking is like, oh, I can have one job instead. Two or three. And, you know, when she asked me could I help build, I was like, oh, yep, I can do that. And so I went to. Went to Barnes, and that was on a Friday, went to Barnes and Noble, bought a stack of books, read them all over the weekend, came in Monday morning, started coding, and, you know, we IPO'd roughly a year later. Now it's a.com IPO. So it also ended up being a bit of a dot com crash and burn, but it was a. It was a wealth of experience. It didn't turn out to be any other kind of wealth, but it was a wealth of experience. And that actually ended up mattering a lot more in the long run.
- [31:27]
Andy Beshear
You're listening to the Andy Beshear podcast. Our guest, Bill Reddy, CEO of Pinterest. We're talking about his education and then that first job and ipo. But from there, you end up starting and selling about five different companies, including one that we all know named Venmo, and a number of others that we all know. Tell us, where do you start, first of all with that idea and then where does the sale come in when you know it's time?
- [32:02]
Bill Reddy
Sure, yeah. Well, what a lot of people may not know is like, you know, yes, I did the five startups, but three of those five startups were right there in Kentucky. So, you know, the path to doing Venmo actually started in Kentucky, not just because that's where I grew up, but three of the five startups were there in Kentucky. Two of them were with Dana Bowers, who has been the best mentor of my career, also a native Kentuckian and serial entrepreneur. But it was through those that those. Online banking. Two of those were online banking startups. The first one called Netz, later on called Ipay, that really gave me a sense for what was happening in the banking ecosystem and sort of the ideas around Venmo and the other company, Braintree, which you may not have heard of, but sort of created the Uber buying experience where you could just, you know, push a button and the payment just happens, or get out of the car and the payment just happens. That was what we built in the powering about, you know, half the mobile apps that you would use on. On your phone from that. But the ideas for that really came from those two of those first three startups that were in online banking and that we built right there in Kentucky that they gave me the idea for, like, oh, well, you know, shouldn't it be easier for people to send money across, you know, no matter what bank they're at, shouldn't be easy for them to send money to anybody with that. Shouldn't be able to do it from their phone. And those ideas were formed working at Ipay way before Venmo, way before Braintree or Pinterest. Or Google or PayPal or any of those things was building three of those startups there in Kentucky that gave a lot of the foundation for that.
- [33:27]
Andy Beshear
When was the first moment that you knew, I'm pretty good at this. This is something that I can do?
- [33:33]
Bill Reddy
I don't know if I ever felt that, hey, I'm pretty good at this. Maybe I just had audacity in thinking like, well, even though I'm probably not good enough to do this, I'm going to try anyway. The thing that I loved about it was that you could just have an idea and go create something and do something that would have an impact for other people. And that is what I got hooked on. So I don't know, it was about thinking like, oh, I'm pretty good at this, but just like, I really like that feeling of you go build something and you know, turn around a year or two years later and you know, thousands or hundreds of thousands or millions of people be using it. That was a new kind of experience and one that I really liked.
- [34:04]
Andy Beshear
You've built some very different things. When you think about Venmo and then you think about Pinterest, I mean, two very different ideas tell us how Pinterest came to be. I mean, it's used by people all over the world.
- [34:18]
Bill Reddy
You know, you sort of go back to early days of the iPhone. So put yourself back in like the late 2000s. IPad's not out yet. It's sort of second gen iPhone, so it's still really, really small. And people aren't really buying things on their phone at that time. And there was one good buying experience and it was Amazon one click. And sort of looked at that and thought, well, you know, I think this is going to be the primary computing device and people are going to buy a lot of things on this, which is obvious now, but sounded crazy at the time. But the idea that I was like, well, everybody's going to be able to sell their stuff on this device. How do you make it so that everybody could have a really great buying experience like Amazon one click? How would you make it so that, you know, a small business like my folks in Kentucky or anyplace else, how could they have access to those same great buying experiences so they could connect with customers there? So one through line was around shopping and commerce, but another through line was around democratization of these things. Even with Venmo. One of the things I really liked about what we're able to do with Venmo is it started out not just helping people pay each other back for dinner tabs and things like that. It was, you know, how would you go tip an artist, you know, at, you know, a, you know, a street vendor or an artist or you know, someone that just did a great performance, you wanted to go give them a tip. And it's like, oh, instead of saying, oh, I don't have any cash, you know, you could scan a QR code and send a payment to the person that just, you know, was out there, you know, putting on a good performance or, or selling some girl Scout cookies or whatever it was. And that was sort of a democratizing effect as well. So I'd say the shopping and commerce as well as the democratization were both sort of through lines across all those businesses.
- [35:49]
Andy Beshear
This is the Andy Beshear podcast with our guest Bill Reddy, who apparently ruined my excuse of not having any cash. But really, when we first met and started talking, one of the things that struck me was how thoughtful you are in your approach to media and social media and the impact on kids. What you all have done, going above and beyond. I think you're the only company I know that actually have a pop up or a thing you're experimenting with right now where if it's in school hours, Pinterest suggests that you go back to school and come back to the site later.
- [36:29]
Bill Reddy
First of all, thank you for the work that you've done around this as well. We've been an advocate for phone free schools. I know you passed legislation there in Kentucky around phone free schools and I think it makes a real impact so that kids can focus on their learning, their development, get a chance for the kind of education that helped me go do the things that I did and for everyone. You just want that to be something that everyone has good access to. And part of that is the ability to focus on. But your question of sort of the why behind that. The thing that really tipped me over in terms of wanting to go join Pinterest as CEO was that like many others, I had seen what had happened with social media, with social media really being driven by engagement via enragement and sort of driving people into sort of more and more polarized positions and all these things. And in the early days it was sort of helping people know their neighbors better and helping people reconnect with long lost friends and helping democracies rise up and all those things until one day it wasn't. And what changed was that AI got put in charge of what you see and AI figured out that you'll look longer at the things that trigger you at the things that distract you. And going to Pinterest was a chance to go prove there's a different business model for social media, one that can be built on positivity. And if you're building on positivity, part of that is making sure you're showing things to people that don't just distract them or enrage them. But how do you lift people up, how do you make people feel good and how do you invest in people's long term well being? And you know, three years in, you know, we've actually been able to make Pinterest not only a much better business, but one that's having a much better impact on the well being of our users. But that's been very intentional and it's something that matters to me quite even a parent, I've got an 11 year old daughter, so I see it as a parent as well. And so I think as tech companies we need to be willing to invest in the long term well being of our users. And sounds like an obvious thing to say, but it's just not how a lot of people are behaving and so we want to go lead the way on that.
- [38:30]
Andy Beshear
So with a little bit of time we have left, tell us a little bit about how you see the future with AI, its benefits, but also what we should be concerned about and, or addressing ahead of time.
- [38:46]
Bill Reddy
Well, you know, I think, I mean obviously I'm a technologist, I'm an optimist around these things, but I think like any technology, it can be used for good or for bad, sort of. The, you know, the analogy I use a lot is that sort of like a powerful genie that, you know, it'll grant your wishes, but maybe it'll grant them in ways you may not expect. And so we should be really thoughtful and intentional about what, what wishes we ask it to grant for us. And I gave the example of AI being behind how social media became more toxic. Going back years and years before, AI was sort of a household term. But I also think that AI can do tremendous good. And so I talked about democratization as something that's been a through line for me. When I was at Google, one of the products that my team was responsible for was a product called Google Lens where you could point your phone at anything and it would tell you what that thing was. Now Pinterest has a similar product to that as well. But one of the really interesting things we thought that would be great for shopping and it is great for those things. But when we looked at the early use cases of it. One of the largest early use cases actually ended up being in small villages or towns in India where you have a large portion of the population doesn't get to go to school. And so people that hadn't learned to read can now point their phone at anything. And it opened up the world that they, instead of only being able to take one bus line, they could take any bus line because now they could point their phone at it and it would speak back to them what the bus line was, or they weren't going to get ripped off at the market because they could point their phone at something and know what the price was actually supposed to be. And so I think there can be huge democratizing effects like, oh, why can't every person have a personal tutor now? Like, I couldn't have a personal tutor growing up, but now through AI, everybody can have a personal tutor. So there's democratizing effects like that. There's also potential harms like it being used to drive addictive experiences or keep you glued to a screen by showing you triggering content or those kinds of things. So I think we need to simultaneously build for the things that can be really useful and good for people, but also have guardrails around the potential harms that could happen for people.
- [40:51]
Andy Beshear
As a parent of two teenagers, thank you for your approach, both on Pinterest for speaking out on phone free schools, but also how you're thinking ahead and hopefully guiding us on on AI. So we like to end these interviews with something a little bit fun. And I admit you have bragging rights today because your University of Louisville Cardinals are headed to the College World Series now to get to the super regionals. They just won. They beat my alma mater, Vanderbilt to get there. So let me give you a minute or two to brag on, on U of L. You can put that great hat on.
- [41:31]
Bill Reddy
Yeah, yeah. Well, I will say that. Well, I'm sorry I came at the expense of, you know, your Vanderbilt Commodores there. I was quite happy to see Louisville make it into the College World Series, remain a huge Louisville fan. And you know, funny little story, my wife and I, we, we went to high school together. She's been a huge supporter through, you know, all of the things I talked about. But we didn't start dating until college at University of Louisville. But after grad school, as we were saving up for our wedding and sort of, you know, if we wanted to invite 10 more people and needed to open up another credit card to be able to pay for the 10 more people to come to the wedding. Louisville had made it to the Orange bowl in 2007.
- [42:09]
Andy Beshear
And so that's the Michael Busch team and.
- [42:12]
Bill Reddy
Yeah, yeah, and Brom and his quarterback. And. And so they hadn't been to a major bowl since the Fiesta bowl in the early 90s. I was too young to go and so convinced her that even though we were saving up for the wedding, that we were going to go down to Miami and see Louisville and the Orange Bowl. And we stayed a couple hours outside of Miami and took probably three connections to get down there to save money on the flights. But, you know, we went and saw them. So I've been a huge Louisville fan, you know, not only growing up, but ever since. And, you know, excited to see them in the World Series. And sorry I came with the expense of your vandal.
- [42:42]
Andy Beshear
I'll let you in on a secret. When they were playing, my friends were all texting me, who are you with? And my response was, while I love my Alma material, I ain't the governor of Vanderbilt, so you can't see it, but I am wearing your UofL Cardinals shoes here today with your bragging rights and was excited to be there on Sunday and on Friday. Those two games, they won. But let me say, you are a credit to Kentucky, a credit to UofL. Thanks for your leadership and thanks for being on the podcast.
- [43:12]
Bill Reddy
Thanks for having me on.
- [43:19]
Andy Beshear
Welcome back to the Andy Beshear Podcast. Returning this week is our segment where I talk about the issues of the past week and what we're going to see the next week with the Johns. Except this week we only have one of The Johns, John McConnell, who's going to lead us through some of the hot topics that are out there that you're reading about. John.
- [43:42]
John McConnell
Well, just me, no Rabinowitz. This week.
- [43:44]
Andy Beshear
I think you can hold it down.
- [43:45]
John McConnell
I'm going to try to do the best I can. Well, let's kick it off. I mean, we all know breaking up is hard to do. So there was a pretty spectacular breakup in the last couple of days.
- [43:54]
Andy Beshear
Volcanic.
- [43:55]
John McConnell
Yes, there is no doubt. You go from being disrespectful to ungrateful, and then it just keeps going on.
- [44:02]
Andy Beshear
To accusing someone of being in the Epstein files.
- [44:06]
John McConnell
Yes, yes. And then you hop down to saying a good way to save money is to take someone's contract away. And then their response was, go ahead, we'll just stop doing it. So what's your take on how this looks nationally?
- [44:19]
Andy Beshear
Well, breakups are tough. This breakup is the world's most powerful man. And the World's richest man. And it's being done on two separate social media platforms with each of them owning and or leading those social media platforms. So it's a spat between two individuals, but it's almost a spat between social media too. It doesn't make us look good as a country. I know that there are some who hope that this will mean that more moderate level heads will prevail, that maybe these mass firings that make us less safe at the National Weather Service or the CIA or the FBI will stop. That maybe some of these actions that appear to be breaking parts of the federal government will stop without Elon Musk leading doge. But we're the United States. And I mean, right now we look like a bad movie.
- [45:19]
John McConnell
Yes, it's embarrassing. It kind of. We both have teenagers. It's one of those things you think you hear. They're going to come in and talk about having an online argument with someone and now it plays out in real time at the biggest stage.
- [45:31]
Andy Beshear
And I don't know about you, but I would be disappointed if either of my kids had this level of a breakup online yet. This is the President of the United States and Elon Musk.
- [45:44]
John McConnell
Well, let's hop over real quick to nil. A lot of big news is out there about the 2.75 billion they're going to have to pay out. So just curious, I mean, with your collegiate college, I mean, how much are you in line for for this?
- [45:59]
Andy Beshear
Me? Nothing. But to see this finally wrapped up and hopefully college athletics can move into whatever the next form is going to be that these athletes at big schools get compensated when the schools were making a lot of money off of them or the video game companies were making a lot of money off of them and now that they can be a part of it, but to hopefully get it in a regulated system where these kids can get financial advice. And for me, I hope not switching schools every year.
- [46:34]
John McConnell
Yeah, some continuity there between your collectives trying to figure out what they're going to get paid every year. Now all of a sudden, the ability for the school to step in and manage it professionally.
- [46:43]
Andy Beshear
Well, and what I've at least read is that these nil collectives and how they are reforming will do more on both the media and the recruiting side. But I think that's where it was going. And if it was inevitable that it was going there, then maybe it's good that it's at least out in the open so that we can see when it works well and then when it doesn't.
- [47:05]
John McConnell
Now let's hop over to the College World Series. You know, Kentucky's had a pretty good showing here in the last week or so. So how are you feeling about how we look going forward?
- [47:15]
Andy Beshear
I'm feeling great. As we are filming this. UK got close to the super regionals. They were one half of one game from making it. Louisville won their Super Regional at UofL. I was there for the two games they won and apologized that I was not there for the other. And then Murray is playing today. And Murray could go for the first time ever to Omaha. And even better than Murray going to the first time ever to Omaha, they could beat Duke.
- [47:45]
John McConnell
They could beat Duke if they could beat Duke again today. And also, 19 runs was NCAA record for a super regional game.
- [47:54]
Andy Beshear
And for those Duke fans out there that listen to the podcast, yes, we love you and we were okay with Duke until Christian Laettner. We know you're not a fan of him either.
- [48:04]
John McConnell
Let's jump on real quick. The big beautiful bill and its ever evolving challenges. And whatever it sets, and however it sets, it's devastating.
- [48:14]
Andy Beshear
It's devastating for a number of reasons. But first, let's say it doesn't work. I mean, the fact is it's going to add trillions of dollars to the national deficit and it's going to blow a hole in every state budget, whether you are a red state or a blue state. I was talking with Governor Walz. Just the portion on SNAP could cause a 360, a $380 million additional expenditure to our state budget. And that would happen all over the United States. I think there's documentation out there that we as Kentucky could suffer from more rural hospital closings, more healthcare clinics closing. I mean, this is 16 million Americans that will get kicked off their health care coverage. And remember, Medicaid covers our parents, our kids, and many more. But it means many of our parents and kids will lose their coverage. And while that will cost lives, it should be enough to not do it. It's also the billions of dollars of revenue that go to hospitals and ensure that you have doctors in your community and ensure that you have specialists that'll be dried up and removed from our economy. So you take that and then you put this tariff policy on top and what it's doing, I believe they could push us into a recession when our economy was set to absolutely boom January 20th, when this president came into office.
- [49:42]
John McConnell
And when you look at 2.9 trillion, is the estimate added to the deficit with this bill?
- [49:47]
Andy Beshear
Yes.
- [49:48]
John McConnell
And what that looks like, I mean, know in Kentucky, we have to run through our budget process. How is that going to translate back down nationally with that kind of a deficit?
- [49:57]
Andy Beshear
Well, it's going to, it's going to harm us nationally, certainly in the long term. But you impact the economy the way that the Medicaid cuts would. You blow holes in the budgets of every state that's out there, they're going to be providing less services. It will be a massive self inflicted wound both in the present and in the future that we just shouldn't be doing. And it's going to harm our everyday families. You know, I talk a lot about how I believe President Trump is, is president again because he convinced that last group of voters that he'd make paying the bills a little bit easier, that he'd be more focused on public safety. But if his actions caused the prices of everything to go up, make you drive a couple hours just to see a doctor and not just for you. You got to take off work to take care of parents and your kids. There's no longer an option for long term care for certain seniors that have to be brought back into people's homes. Paying the bills won't just be harder at the end of the month, it'll be impossible and it'll be because of the agenda of this administration.
- [51:02]
John McConnell
Some scary times to walk into with this.
- [51:05]
Andy Beshear
That's right. And that's a wrap on episode 10 of the Andy Beshear Podcast. This has been a great 10 episode run. We've had US senators, we've had governors and Attorney general and we've had some amazing CEOs. But there is more to come and we think we're going to have some big news soon. So stick around. We love having this conversation among friends and we know that all of us need to process all this news that hits us minute after minute in a way that lifts us up and gets us ready for the week ahead. Remember, you can download us on all major platforms or subscribe to our YouTube channel @andy Beshear Podcast. Your downloads and your subscriptions are what keep us going and keeps this conversation going. So make sure you're a part of it and let's do this together.