Episode 22: Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham

Summary

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Andy Beshear Podcast

Episode 22: Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham

Date: September 4, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this milestone episode, host Andy Beshear celebrates joining the SiriusXM Podcast Network and sits down with New Mexico Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham (MLG) for an unscripted, high-energy conversation. They explore what drew MLG into public service, lessons from the front lines of local and national government, the crisis in federal public health leadership, the erosion of bipartisan cooperation in Congress, and the practical wins Democratic governors are delivering for their states. The conversation is personal and candid—full of humor, critique, hope, and some tough talk about the country’s current direction.
The episode also features the regular "Conversation with the Johns" panel, Gen Z lingo with Will Beshear, and Andy’s direct address on National Guard deployments in American cities.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Major Announcement: SiriusXM Partnership

• Andy Beshear shares his excitement about the podcast joining SiriusXM, emphasizing the platform's potential to foster genuine conversations across divides.

  "I hope what we're going to be able to do is to bring more people together in conversations not just about politics, but sports, faith, challenges that we all face every day as Americans." (01:00)

2. Michelle Lujan Grisham’s “Why” for Public Service

• MLG recounts her unorthodox path, starting as a cabinet secretary under governors from both parties, her initial dislike of politicians, and what drew her to run for Congress:

  "I didn't like politicians, even though I was working for them... And in 2007 I finally get a chance to hear Clinton and Obama debate federal healthcare reform. And that was the sexiest thing I have ever heard in my entire life." (03:34)

• Her first Congressional bid ended in defeat, but it taught her invaluable lessons in humility and campaign strategy.

  "Have a campaign team. I did it by myself... You learn more from the races you lose than the race you win." (04:44)

3. Lessons from Local Government

• Local leadership is uniquely challenging and rewarding due to its intimacy and immediate accountability.

  "Every decision and people come to the decisions that you make for every meeting. That's the big difference." (05:56)

• Anecdote: MLG explains her grocery store choices, citing her quest for low-fat string cheese.
• Proud local government win: Orchestrating bipartisan collaboration for infrastructure funding—a feat in notoriously fragmented local politics.

  "I created a coalition... to all pool our money for the first time ever. And in two months, we were spending $95 million. And it was the fastest infrastructure interstate exchange in the history at the city of Albuquerque." (07:54)

4. The State of Public Health: A Dire National Crisis

• Both Andy and MLG express grave concerns about anti-scientific policy shifts at the federal level, particularly with RFK Jr. at HHS.

  MLG: "We eradicated measles in this country... We're right on the cusp [of major breakthroughs]. And now we've got the Secretary... telling you not to trust science... People have died, children have died. More people will die. It's really an outrage." (09:49)

• Andy highlights local resurgence of diseases once thought eliminated due to national policy setbacks.

  "Because we have cases in Kentucky of measles which can be so harmful." (10:41)

5. Evolving and Fracturing in Congress

• MLG describes Congress’s shift from functional bipartisan work to dysfunction and fear, exacerbated by social media and political intimidation.

  "You had more rational folks who were clear about delivering for their states... Fast forward... Congress is broken." (12:18, 13:40)

• Critique of legislators abdicating constitutional responsibilities, following party or presidential whims over constituents or country.

  "We don't have three branches of an independent operating government. This is really frightening, but it motivates me." (14:36)

6. Governors as Doers, Not Just Partisans

• Both stress that effective Democratic governors break with party dogma when their states’ needs demand it.

  "There are things in the Democratic Party platform, they're not good for New Mexico... There's nothing wrong with that. Independence." (15:34)

• Frustration at the National Governors Association’s decline as a bipartisan policy engine due to hyper-partisanship.

  "We don't do much policy. That's one, because we're broken because of the partisan nature of the world today." (16:17)

7. Delivering on Promises—What Democratic Governors Get Right

• MLG lists major New Mexico achievements under her watch:
  • Free universal childcare and pre-K
  • Raises for educators and healthcare workers
  • Free college programs (including trades and apprenticeships)
  • Economic output doubling national averages

  "We're leaning in to New Mexicans. I want you to have a fair shot at every single opportunity." (19:58)

• She argues the defining Democratic advantage is delivery, not just rhetoric:

  "Democratic governors... understand that our job, one job, [is] to deliver." (20:41)

8. Current Risks to State Progress: Tariffs & Federal Policy

• Economic policies, especially tariffs and cuts, are directly undermining state-level successes, raising costs and threatening essential services.

  "All of us [governors], more affordable housing... the cost of everything we use to build that house is double or more... healthcare premiums are already up... just under 100,000 Mexicans are going to lose Medicaid coverage." (22:15, 23:34)

9. Humor and Human Moments

• Playful banter about podcasting, job swaps, and friendship between governors.

  MLG: "I was hoping to work for you. I could. How hard is it to run the podcast?" (25:19)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On failed first campaign:

  "I got trolloped in that race, I'll bet, oh, I came last out of five."
  — Michelle Lujan Grisham (03:34)

• On anti-science in federal government:

  "Now we've got the Secretary... telling you not to trust science, not to trust medicine, not to trust doctors... People have died, children have died. More people will die."
  — Michelle Lujan Grisham (09:49)

• On bipartisan infrastructure wins:

  "I created a coalition... Republican and Democrats, to all pool our money for the first time ever. And in two months, we were spending $95 million."
  — Michelle Lujan Grisham (07:54)

• On American government’s intended structure:

  "All that power was never intended for one person and it wasn't intended for the White House as a collective either. We have free branches government for exactly this reason."
  — Michelle Lujan Grisham (14:36)

• On Democratic governors' approach:

  "I don't do that. There are things in the Democratic Party platform, they're not good for New Mexico... Independence."
  — Michelle Lujan Grisham (15:34)

• On delivering results in New Mexico:

  "We have free universal childcare, free universal pre K... free college two and four year... we're twice the national average in terms of economic output for a poor, rural, tiny state."
  — Michelle Lujan Grisham (19:58)

• On facing term limits:

  "I want to keep working for America, so I don't know what that means in the future, but it definitely means staying connected to the people that are delivering for families like mine."
  — Michelle Lujan Grisham (25:40)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:08 — Andy announces SiriusXM partnership and upcoming live show.
• 03:03 — Andy introduces Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham.
• 03:34 — MLG discusses her entry into politics.
• 07:54 — MLG details bipartisan infrastructure breakthrough.
• 09:49 — Critique of federal public health leadership.
• 12:18-14:36 — MLG dissects the breakdown of bipartisan governance in Congress.
• 17:48-19:58 — MLG on the achievements and challenges of state leadership.
• 22:15 — MLG discusses threats posed by tariffs and federal policies.
• 25:19 — Banter about podcasting and life post-governorship.

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"Conversation with the Johns" Panel Highlights

• CDC and Science: The panel expresses alarm at RFK Jr.'s anti-vaccine, anti-scientific agenda leading the CDC, linking this leadership to the resurgence of measles.

  "Measles is back. We had eradicated measles. That was a vaccine... but because of all of this politics, misinformation... we now have measles." — Andy Beshear (30:59)

• Federal Reserve Shake-ups & Tariffs:
  Concerns about politically-motivated removals of Federal Reserve board members and the confusing, damaging impacts of new tariffs on small businesses and consumer goods.

  "Most of this trade policy is unlawful... It's causing prices of two things we love to go up, coffee and hamburger." — Andy Beshear (33:34)

• Gun Violence and Policy Frustrations:
  Reflection on another tragic school shooting in Minnesota, with Andy advocating for reasonable measures like red flag laws.

  "This isn't what America is or should be. I certainly hope that we'll look at reasonable steps." — Andy Beshear (39:22)

• Lighter Notes:

  • College football season, NIL (Name/Image/Likeness) deals, and humorous ribbing about sports and fashion purchases.

  "If you order all off of Teemu... when it comes in, you open the box, it ends up being me... That's how TIMU works." — John Rabinowitz (35:14)

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Andy’s Direct Address: National Guard on City Streets (43:23)

• Andy speaks candidly on the martial deployment of National Guards in cities, arguing it’s un-American, ineffective, and politically targeted.

  "My problem with the National Guard on the streets of our cities are threefold. First, it's part of our American ethos that we don't have military walking our streets..." (43:23)

  • Notes the partisan and symbolic showmanship of these National Guard deployments.

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Gen Z Lingo with Will Beshear (45:16)

• Word of the day: “Gas” – meaning something is excellent, especially food.

  "If you're eating something good, you look at it and say, that's gas." — Will Beshear (46:39)

• Discussion on generational language gaps, overuse of “slay,” and playful teasing among family and co-hosts.

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Overall Tone and Flow

The episode is fast-paced, witty, and organically conversational, matching the unscripted, authentic tone that defines the show. There is a significant amount of levity—even as the leaders tackle serious issues—and the guests’ candor and friendship shine through.

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For Listeners Who Missed It: Core Takeaways

• The political and policy divide in Washington is worsening, but state leaders, especially Democratic governors, are finding ways to deliver meaningful change.
• Michelle Lujan Grisham’s career is characterized by pragmatic, non-partisan coalition-building and creative, people-first policymaking.
• Federal anti-science, anti-cooperation trends are not just academic—they have direct, dangerous ramifications for public health, the economy, and families.
• Personal stories, humor, and human moments anchor the show, reminding listeners that politics is about people, not parties.
• The show’s transition to SiriusXM marks a new chapter aimed at bringing more Americans into honest, solution-focused dialogue.

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Listen on SiriusXM’s Progress Channel, all major platforms, or on YouTube @andybeshearpodcast.

Transcript

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

Foreign.

[Andy Beshear]

Welcome to episode 22 of the Andy Beshear Podcast. And we start off with a huge, enormous announcement. The Andy Beshear Podcast is now a part of the Sirius XM Podcast Network. That's right. We're a part of the SiriusXM family. This means that we're going to be able to reach tens of millions of people all across this country and of all different backgrounds. And I hope what we're going to be able to do is to bring more people together in conversations not just about politics, but sports, faith challenges that we all face every day as Americans. And what a platform to do it on. I've always respected Sirius XM because it's been bringing people together with different tastes in music and politics and in religion and all the different things we talk about on this podcast, both in a channel that they like and in ways that expose them to new ideas, new thoughts and new art. I'm really excited about this opportunity to hopefully push back against the us versus them, to bring people together for genuine conversations that we have as Americans first and members of a political party second, third or fourth. Just a chance to talk about our why, what drives us in this world and maybe when we do that, to be able to connect with people we might otherwise disagree with. You're going to see an episode next week taped and recorded at Sirius XM's headquarters in New York City with Hakeem Jeffries, the minority leader, and in the House of Representatives, a guy who's out there fighting a really good fight. But first, on this episode, one of my favorite governors in the entire country, Michelle Lujan Grissom. She is dynamic. She has led New Mexico in really incredible ways and she is very entertaining. Probably ought to have a podcast herself. Remember, you can download us on all major platforms, but now you can get us through the SiriusXM app and we're going to be on the Progress channel once a week. One more announcement. I'm doing a live call in show with Sirius XM starting on September 9th. We're going to do at least six of these shows where I'm going to do what I've tried to do on this podcast. I'm going to listen and then I'm going to try to respond in really thoughtful ways for the things that are on the minds of Americans. I'm looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to this dialogue between us. So this episode is a great one. The Andy Beshear Podcast, part of the Sirius XM Podcast Network.

You're listening to the Andy Beshear podcast. Our guest this week is a legendary among Democratic governors. She goes by MLG Michelle Lujan Grissom. So you have done so many different levels of governance. You've been Secretary of Health in New Mexico, you've served at the local level, you've gone to Congress, and now you're serving as governor. What was the why behind getting into politics since you've done it in so many different ways?

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

You know, in today's climate, maybe this will have some relevance. I didn't like politicians, even though I was working for them. So I was appointed by three different governors, two different parties, and served in the cabinet for 18 consecutive years. And a lot of the things that you want to do for governors that you're working for is move the needle, take care of people, deliver in any number of ways for families. And too much of that, particularly in the work I was doing. Health and seniors, long term care, Social Security, it's all federal. And so in 2007 I finally get a chance to hear two Democratic candidates, Clinton and Obama, debate federal healthcare reform. And that was the sexiest thing I have ever heard in my entire life. And I decided to, to launch my own bid for Congress. And like most folks on their first effort, I got trolloped in that race, I'll bet, oh, I came last out of five.

[Andy Beshear]

If you could go back and do just one thing in that race differently, what would it have been?

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

Have a campaign team. I did it by myself. And the hard part for me is that it was a good lesson. You learn more from the races you lose than the race select you win. But I didn't really understand the power of May Mythy. And as a cabinet secretary, nobody has any idea who you are. And then I spent too much time trying to explain that and introduce myself. But that's what sort of shifted that people who were elected can make amazing things happen and they can also engage voters in making the changes that they want. And I got to see it in a totally different way, even though I was working for elected leaders who had a really good vision for New Mexico and a good vision for America. So that that's when it shifted. Then I lost. So I ran for the Cabinet commission and won. And then the seat became open again, so I ran for it again and won it. And then I served for six years and, and now I have the best job in America.

[Andy Beshear]

I want to go to the county commission because local politics can be hard. And when you go to the grocery store, you got to take that path because everybody knows you and it's going to talk about when they know about.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

When you didn't pick up their garbage in the front of their street. I find it to be the saying though, as governor, I think now what you do and the message of the DGA at podcasting and social media, people know who you are. You're not nearly as anonymous. Certainly local government, every decision and people come to the decisions that you make for every meeting. That's the big difference. So I have staff at cabinet secretaries, we have legislative sessions and I'm in my office, I promise I'm working Ameria. But it's a little bit different when you're a county commissioner. Those folks are in the room while you're making the decision. That kind of transparency is both really valuable to create public trust and also really problematic because emotions run high, people don't understand decisions, lot of pressures. But I thought it was a very effective, you know, training ground to be governor. But I have that now. If I go to a grocery store, cheat it, which I do, America. And you know you cannot get string cheese on Amazon. If you want low fat string cheese and you're a 66 year old 4 foot 9 woman, that's what I'm after. That and a piece of fruit, you're going to the grocery store. Which grocery store? It depends on the string cheese. Trader Joe's has the best low fat string cheese. I like local markets. So we've got a couple of local markets, John Brooks, which you don't have. Lowe's, which you don't have. And they're really good at making sure that New Mexico grown produce is there. And they have a tendency to get my business. But I learned about everything. I know about your electric bill, I know about your healthcare bill, I know about your college situation. And I think that's good for American politicians.

[Andy Beshear]

Is there one thing as a commissioner.

That you are able to do that you look back on and are really proud of?

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

The most valuable thing, I think, particularly for this job, which you didn't ask me, is local governments also are responsible for local roads. We have limited money. We do capital in New Mexico. Let's do that in another podcast. Most boring topic in America. But we don't spend public money for infrastructure in a very smart way. And that same is true for cities and counties. So they compete so they don't finish projects, they don't line them up or plan them. And they. The city had limited bonding, the county had limited bonding, the state had limited bonding. I needed $100 million from interchange and the feds were like waiting for the state. The state was waiting for the feds. I was waiting for the state. And so nobody would work together. And I created a coalition of city councilors and commissioners, Republican and Democrats, to all pool our money for the first time ever. And in two months, we were spending $95 million. And it was the fastest infrastructure interstate exchange in the history at the city of Albuquerque. And that has created good bipartisan work as a go.

[Andy Beshear]

You're listening to the Andy Beshear podcast. We've got Governor MLG giving us not just a lesson in local government, but in politics. Answering the questions you wish was asked instead of the one that was asked. It's a good skill. I try to do it myself.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

There you go.

[Andy Beshear]

So going back to your time as cabinet secretary for health, it's got to.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

Be difficult, mind numbing in this environment.

[Andy Beshear]

Challenging in what's going on right now, certainly in my lifetime. Never seen a federal cabinet secretary who is doing more damage than RFK Jr is doing right now. Things like measles, which we felt like we had eradicated.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

We did eradicate. There's no feeling like it, Andy. We eradicated these country. We eradicated smallpox in this country. We were in front of infectious disease. We are in line to cure and treat all cancers. We can do a vaccine to prevent Alzheimer's. We're right on the cusp. I just got a new shoulder. And if we would move faster, I can design using my own tissue to rebuild torn tissue. We're there. And now we got the Secretary of Health and Human Services, rfk, who is telling you not to trust science, not to trust medicine, not to trust doctors and to do none of it. People have died, children have died. More people will die. It's really an outrage.

[Andy Beshear]

I agree because I see it. Because we have cases in Kentucky of measles which can be so harmful. One of the fastest, most spreading, most infectious diseases that we've ever seen.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

If you're looking for the movie contagion, look no further than measles.

[Andy Beshear]

And yet we've got a president who puts somebody in charge of help that is squirming in Rock Creek park and once put a dead where with his grandchildren. Yes.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

So it's one thing to espouse things that are false and wrong. Maybe some people believe that. Maybe it's political theater for some.

[Andy Beshear]

Putting children in the reason you put.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

And your own grandchildren. There's something not right about you.

[Andy Beshear]

Let's talk about Congress.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

Congress. Do we have a Congress? We have people who are Elected to a position we call, they certainly get.

[Andy Beshear]

Made and they get great health care that they're then cutting for everyone else.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

This is true. And it's that if you're, if you're mad about anything, be mad about that.

[Andy Beshear]

So compare Congress with when you were there to what you're seeing right now.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

Gosh, that is easy and painful to do. When I got there, of course I got there for the initiation of Obama's second term, we were in the minority. We did not do a good job. That's my view as Democrats. Really talking about Medicaid, health care, the Affordable Care Act, Obamacare. I don't care what you call it. If it helps pay for your premium and expands access to quality affordable health care. Rewarned it.

[Andy Beshear]

Yes.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

All right. So people just didn't understand it. We didn't do a great job. So I'm in the minority. Two takeaways. One, you still had bipartisan coalitions. I can't pass something as a minority member, grand new member of Congress unless I have Republicans who are helping me. So there was a natural effort to make sure that that was occurring. Two, you had more rational folks who were clear about delivering for their states. That's helpful, right? Fast forward. Not that long. I mean, I started to see that take place when I left. And of course at 18 is when we had a sweeping takeover of the Senate and the House. As Democrats, I worry that this all of one and none of the other is not good for these policymakers. Plus, America, there's not a one party design. There is an effort at individuals who understand the needs of the people they represent and keep those interests in mind as they may make decisions and that should incentivize them to work together. That they don't like each other, they will not work with each other. I would argue that some of them are afraid of some other members. Social media has created that opportunity where you actually put people in harm's way and you've got a Congress that is complicit in ignoring the Constitution so that this president can do an overreach in any area he wants to. Over and over and over again. Congress is broken. And I hope that the Democratic governors can get to every voter, not just Democratic voters, that we have an obligation to put these institutions back together in a meaningful way.

[Andy Beshear]

It is staggering that successful people that run an election where they have to appeal to the people that they're going to represent who take an oath to the Constitution with their hand, typically on a Bible or something else meaningful for them Right. Seem to have abdicated any self respect, responsibility or duty even when the policies are exactly the opposite of what they ran on or what they thought that their party supported. Because the president has decided to take a different approach.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

That's right. And the reason you have a converse is that all that power was never intended for one person and it wasn't intended for the White House as a collective either. We have free branches government for exactly this reason. And today America, we don't have three branches of an independent operating government. This is really frightening, but it motivates me because if we don't get it right, we can't do the right things. For a state that's got a lot of wonderful things occurring and a lot of challenges that have yet to be addressed. But this effort at making sure voters really understand about getting people to represent you who are going to tell you A, the truth, B, they're not going to stop fighting for you and they're not going to be beholding to a person, particularly a person who's only beholden in my candidate to themselves or for.

[Andy Beshear]

Even to a party platform.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

Correct. I don't do that. There are things in the Democratic Party platform, they're not good for New Mexico. It just aren't. So I speak against those and talk about a different strategy. There's nothing wrong with that. Independence.

[Andy Beshear]

We see that with Democratic governors. I wish we saw it with Republican governors. Take the big ugly bill, tariffs, et cetera, things that are hurting red America or rural America, which includes us a lot more than urban America. They're going to hurt their districts, their states.

Yeah.

We don't hear them speak up.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

Well, the National Governors association, which for listeners is a bipartisan. All governors belong to it. We're a policy vehicle, not a political vehicle.

[Andy Beshear]

We're supposed to be.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

Yep. We don't do much policy. That's one, because we're broken because of the partisan nature of the world today. And two, we did get a resolution out the door saying, you know, we are against tariffs, we're for free trade, that we don't want the big beautiful bill because it's does not do anything for our working families in any state across the political spectrum and anything that a prior administration did that we're relying on to build jobs and houses and hospitals and roads and a future for the people that we represent. That's a contract between me and the federal government on behalf of New Mexico citizens, for you on behalf of Kentuckians. And we all signed it. And they don't use it. They don't refer to it. They don't seem to care about it because we are doing exactly the opposite at the national level and asking states to do more. And we are. But it was never intended for us not to do work as a collective. And that's also gone.

[Andy Beshear]

You're listening to the Andy Beshear podcast. We've got New Mexico's governor who is on fire. In this interview, we talked about your time in Congress. At some point you come to your senses and say, I really want to be a governor.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

I'm not going to let Andy Beshear be governor of Kentucky if I can't be governor of New Mexico at the same time. That's what did it.

[Andy Beshear]

You were there ahead of me.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

Well, I saw you in the wings, okay. I knew you were coming.

[Andy Beshear]

I was trying to be a good attorney general in Trump blood pool.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

Well, frankly, without the attorney general's and your work, in 1.0 we'd be in worse shape, which for many Americans is hard to imagine. So thank you for that work and thanks to the attorney generals law, largely the Democratic, if not completely the Democratic attorney generals for fighting for America.

[Andy Beshear]

So we had Avery Ford on from Nevada, great attorney general, great friend. And we talked a little bit about during Trump 1.0 when Democratic AGs would sue. What we'd see in the media was Democratic ags stand out to Trump, push back, keep him from breaking the law. The interesting thing this time around when people are saying where are the Democrats pushing back? Is they're still filing the same lawsuits, but the media is reporting District Judge X or Y stands up to the president. It's fascinating in how similar the actions are, but how different the coverage is.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

It is, and it shows that intimidating the media I would argue, has had an impact. Intimidating judges has had an impact. We don't intimidate and rule by this sort of forceful nature. If it's wasn't working and I get a little bristly and frustrated when folks want Democratic governors and Democratic he's to do more and message more. Part of the painful effort of this exercise is we're going to keep telling the truth. Truth isn't always that sexy and it doesn't always lead you to an elegant, simple solution. There's not an elegant, simple solution to bad actors. Bad actors are bad because they intend to cheat and that makes our jobs harder. However, that doesn't mean that we have been stagnant or absent. And what something that I just want to give you a compliment about is that focusing on where you Deliver is an area that I do think people are still interested in hearing about. And so I mentioned all of New Mexico's challenges and there are many public safeties, one of them behavioral health challenges and addiction. Another education would be a third. We're doing better in a number of areas, but it's not where I think we ought to be. As a mother. Yeah. What have we done? Well, our utility costs are incredibly low. We have free universal childcare, free universal pre K. It's the fastest growing pre K in terms of building while you fly in America. A moonshot including really healthy bonuses and raises for educators and free college two and four year, including trades and apprenticeships. So we're leaning in to New Mexicans. I want you to have a fair shot at every single opportunity. And we're twice the national average in terms of economic output for a poor, rural, tiny state, 2 million people, that's a miraculous shift in what we're doing for New Mexicans. More states, more Democratic states can identify those protections, those opportunities, those economic strategies than our Republican counterparts. So we can remind voters, Democratic governors, the Democratic candidates understand that our job, one job, to deliver. And you can't deliver if you don't have vision. You're not telling the truth and you don't understand the consequences of some actions. And so I would hope that people will embrace that. That's really a productive strategy. And we can have a little fun with our messaging and we can fight back in a way that doesn't create risk. But we also need to talk about the stuff that we're handing down.

[Andy Beshear]

It's the idea that energy needs direction. Being against someone can create energy, but you got to be for something which creates that direction.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

Agree. And you know what? I'm for you.

[Andy Beshear]

I appreciate that. I'm for you, too.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

There you go. See?

[Andy Beshear]

So let's talk a little bit about the yin and yang of our jobs.

Right now because like you, we've experienced some really great gains that we are.

Thrilled about, but so many of them are at risk right now, all of the policies of this administration. So talk a little bit about your concerns over tariffs and that big ugly bill.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

Well, I mean, we've been talking about that in our meetings the last day or so. But look, we're all leaning into, all of us, more affordable housing. Okay? So we don't have enough resources and we need to do so much more today. But the cost of everything we use to build that house is double or more. All right, all of my energy, I have one, I'm one of the cheapest states for energy in America. Well, that's because I have a great. I have tons of energy development. I was going to get that out before the four minute. Marcia. I barely, barely made it.

[Andy Beshear]

You were great.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

But oil and gas, wind, solar, geothermal, small scale nuclear, hydrogen, you name it, we are doing it. So we keep energy prices low. Who's backing away from two thirds of that? Federal government is. You know where there are jobs in clean energy? You know where there's jobs at two national labs are laying off federal workers who are the best and the brightest among us. That means every advanced technology leaves the state. Why would we be doing that? Healthcare premiums are already up. We talk about groceries and eggs and inflation.

[Andy Beshear]

The impacts are already, already happening.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

And when people say it' happening until 26. No, it happened yesterday. And it's only going to get worse. And just under 100,000 Mexicans are going to lose Medicaid coverage. And far more than that are losing food security benefits. And the vast majority of those individuals are children. And that happens now. And states are being asked to figure it out without a federal partner. It's corrupt. It's impossible to find the right words or emotion to talk about how destructive that is when we let children go hungry in America. And that is exactly what they're doing to get a tax break to people who quite frankly didn't ask the tax break. Who paid the lowest tax rates already?

[Andy Beshear]

You and I both know in our states our rural residents are going to pay for a tax break for urban high wealth Americans.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

Yeah. And it's outrageous. And so you and I are working to figure out ways to keep our rural hospitals open. And we will. But it's going to be a challenge, a big challenge. And I'm going to find a way. I'm calling a special session in about a month. And we're going to feed kids. But it's not sustainable without a reasonable effort at the federal level. Which is again why the work that we do is so powerful. Showing Americans that there's something better. And we ought to be leaning in.

[Andy Beshear]

Towards that with all this passion.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

Yep.

[Andy Beshear]

Which I love to see you being term limited coming up. I'm term Limited in 2026. It's. Hey, it's my job to make sure you have a Democrat that follows you. What's next?

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

I was hoping to work for you. I could. How hard is it to run the podcast?

[Andy Beshear]

You know what? I learned it he grade it.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

It just was wearing some headphones or some stop going.

[Andy Beshear]

I think you'll be sitting here asking the questions.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

Yeah, well, I was hoping that, you know, you would ask me something where I could be funnier.

[Andy Beshear]

The MG&MLG podcast coming to you soon.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

You know what's next? I want to keep working for America, so I don't know what that means in the future, but it definitely means staying connected to the people that are delivering for families like mine.

[Andy Beshear]

Well, thank you for being in the Spike and thanks for being on the podcast.

[Michelle Lujan Grisham]

You got it. Thank you, Andy.

[Andy Beshear]

You're listening to the Andy Beshear Podcast. And now our segment, my Conversation with the Johns, John McConnell and John Rabinowitz. This is where we process the news from last week. We get ready for the week ahead and hopefully we give you some insight on this news that seems to hit us minute after minute after minute. But today we're starting with the announcement you heard in the very beginning. The fact that the Andy Beshear podcast, that little podcast that could, that's had a great loyal following, is now a part of the SiriusXM podcast network. Guys, I think we just went big time.

[John McConnell]

I can't believe people doubted us. This is exactly what we planned from day one. We knew we were being picked up nationally. John, we're always believers. I know. Listen, when we were sitting in the back patio trying to convince Andy we knew how to launch a podcast, which we didn't, who would have thought?

[Andy Beshear]

I still remember the question, where do we get the furniture?

[John Rabinowitz]

Furniture, yes.

[Andy Beshear]

But SiriusXM being one of the biggest platforms that's out there, 60 plus million subscribers that are going to have access to. We're going to be on one of the network channels, the Progress Channel. Each week I'm going to do a live call in program for at least six different episodes. It's really exciting.

[John McConnell]

Oh, it's incredibly exciting. I can't wait to get some more free plugs in. John, as I know that shocks you to a wider audience and to just get our messages to a lot more people. Our friends and families are more valuable. Yes.

[John Rabinowitz]

Become more valuable. Now you've got all of a sudden 40, 60 million people going to see it.

[John McConnell]

John, listen, it's great and it's just. I'm great. I'm very grateful that your message is now going to be heard in front of a lot more people.

[Andy Beshear]

I think the first topic that I have to talk about is the turmoil at the cdc. It now appears that science is not going to leap the cdc, that it's going to be a political agenda pushed through by RFK Jr. And the wildest part about all of this is we are just five years off a massive health pandemic. Why in the world, given what we have all lived through, would we be eliminating scientific guidelines for vaccines, cutting research and to the next vaccine? It's just crazy.

[John McConnell]

Listen, I'm all about making America healthy again. I think that's a great thing. I actually am aligned with the secretary on his stance on ultra processed food. But I still always go back to science over loyalty to a particular party or person. So I don't disagree with you on this. I think we, especially in this world, we got to follow the science. We got to follow the professionals, the people that know what they're doing. It is, I think, I think you would agree with this. You want loyal people on your team, but you want people to tell you the truth and you want to know the facts and the data that support decision making.

[Andy Beshear]

There are agencies where you have to have experts. I mean, you've got look at defense, you need the generals, you need folks that understand the nuances. And the CDC is the premier health organization that our public health agencies get their information from. It's how we're monitoring Ebola worldwide to make sure it doesn't get here, how we're monitoring bird flu and whether or not it's going to transition and transmit among people. And what we've seen is a firing of the advisors, the health advisors that would review vaccine information. And now we've seen the CDC director fired, then maybe not fired, and then fired again. And seeing the president trying to both take credit for operation Warp Speed, which was incredible. We got a vaccine that got us out of a pandemic faster than ever in human history, but then also turn around and officially fire the CDC director that was supporting that same vaccine.

[John Rabinowitz]

And one thing you were saying, John, is that, you know, science is unbiased, science is science, and listening to the people who are trained to help guide us in that. And now you have others even resigning like you just mentioned, Andy, you know, so how much, I guess, career knowledge are we going to lose inside of the CDC because of this?

[John McConnell]

And what's. When you look at the department as a whole, you would think you want doctors driving some of that decision making and potentially not lawyers. As much as I love being a lawyer, I guess we're both lawyers, but I would have no business giving medical advice even if I had a little background in it.

[Andy Beshear]

So we just had the interview with Governor Michelle Lujan Gresham from New Mexico. She was Secretary of Health there before running for Congress. And she pointed out things are so bad with the CDC and communication with America that measles, measles is back. We had eradicated measles. That was a vaccine. That was just a no brainer. But because of all of this politics, misinformation and putting somebody wholly unqualified as the head of hhs, we now have measles.

[John McConnell]

So are we going to continue to have this turnover if you don't agree in different departments everywhere.

[Andy Beshear]

So what we saw at fema, we had that interim director that was there for flooding and February and then had the tenacity to go to Congress and say FEMA's important because FEMA's important and was and was gone the next day. But that does lead into President Trump attempting to fire a director, a governor of the Federal Reserve. These are terms that are supposed to be in stone. It's supposed to be an independent group that while appointed by one president, president serves through multiple presidents with the idea that this financial policy and interest rates are so important that politics shouldn't be pushing folks to do something that wouldn't benefit the economy.

[John Rabinowitz]

And I'm all for lowering interest rates when it's time and it makes sense. But when people just don't vote your way, like what you said, Andy, you know it's got to be the right move. But the professionals we have there to make those decisions.

[John McConnell]

Well, I also worry, listen, the optics don't sound great on the alleged mortgage fraud, but you kind of let the process play out to see was it an error? Like, could there be? We don't even know really what the error was. And now they just found another error.

[Andy Beshear]

And of course he wanted to get rid of a governor of the Federal Reserve and then suddenly this is discovered.

[John McConnell]

Because this would give him the numbers. It'll be interesting to see. Didn't they just go to the court on Friday of last week and ask for what? Injunctive relief or to see what happens during the process.

[Andy Beshear]

She, she has gone to court to argue that a president cannot fire a governor of the Federal Reserve. That would be like me, without cause or with cause, removing someone from a board that has a set term without anything in the law allowing for removal. But speaking of go into court, John, we had a big ruling on tariffs. Yep.

[John Rabinowitz]

Tariffs de minimis tariffs, low value packages, less than $800 are now going to be subject to tariffs. So that's going to affect a lot of us. John, I don't know about your daughters, but between TEMU and Sheen and they come in and they tell me they can order, you know, 15 things for $25. That's about to change.

[Andy Beshear]

Well, we've got both that and we have a ruling on an appellate level court, but a specific court that says most of this trade policy is unlawful. In other words, if that holds, it'll undo all these crazy tariffs. I think the one that is the best example of an unlawful use of tariffs is Brazil. Brazil doesn't have any emergency, which we're talking about. It really. It doesn't have a trade imbalance. Actually, it has a favorable trade imbalance for us. We make money off of our trade and tariff policy with Brazil. But the president doesn't like a prosecution going on there of a former president and says out loud that's why he's putting the tariffs on. And it's causing prices of two things we love to go up, coffee and hamburger.

[John McConnell]

I don't disagree. Every week we talk about tariffs, it seems like, if not every week, it seems at least every other week. And I was thinking about this the other day, how frustrated I am with Congress just not stepping in and saying we have the power of the purse because they do.

[Andy Beshear]

Do your job right.

[John McConnell]

It's incredibly frustrating. And John, I do like how you said your daughters and not you ordering from those places. You order all your swag. So you're going to be a little disappointed that like your shirts are going to go up for five or ten bucks, right?

[John Rabinowitz]

Here's the adventure that if you order all off of Teemu, so anyone who has now, you have to actually go Watch us on YouTube to see this. But if you ordered like John Rabinowitz on Teemu6, one full head of hair, clean shaven, when it comes in, you open the box, it ends up being me. And it's going to be like lost the battle against male pattern baldness and a beard in five seconds. That's how TIMU works.

[Andy Beshear]

But in all in all seriousness, this de minimis exception allows for a lot of small businesses to get materials that they need. A store maybe that sells stationary at a price where they can then stay in business. This is going to hit a number of small businesses pretty hard. And there are now several countries that have completely stopped shipping to the United States until they can figure out this new change. Because especially for countries that are providing small amounts of, let's say, raw materials that then Americans assemble or work with or sell and it supports American jobs, it's problematic.

[John McConnell]

Turning to another horrific thing that happened this week, something that we've talked about and today is Sunday we're filming this portion a little bit earlier and I was explaining to you Andy, earlier that I just came out of mass and we talked about the school shooting in Minnesota and here we are again, another horrific event in America. All kinds of discussions on gun control now and what could have been done. Could there the authorities been notified earlier. But guys, just want to get your thoughts on again, another tough week for America.

[John Rabinowitz]

I mean any shooting's a terrible thing but this shooting, I think John, if I'm correct, were two children that were killed.

[John McConnell]

Yes, yep.

[Andy Beshear]

Think 8, 8 and 10 years old.

[John Rabinowitz]

Yeah, just, just unfathomable to, to imagine kids sitting in pews and their lives being ended.

[John McConnell]

I don't know if you guys heard. There was a. I want to say he was an 8 or 10 year old interviewed on the news and I was getting choked up. I get choked up just thinking about it. And he said how his friend shielded him during the shooting, got on top of him and protected him and his friend got shot in the back. Like, like when we send our kids to school we never expect these things to happen. Now thank God the church was locked down so that his shooter was shooting through the windows and didn't get in. But could we have done more? I mean it's easy to Monday morning quarterback, but I just hate that we're having another discussion on it.

[Andy Beshear]

Thank God the church was following the newest and best advice. That's what we try to do with our schools, our houses of worship, where anyone gather is to at least take the steps that make it a hard target instead of a soft target. And think about it, we're talking about our schools in terms of what type of target they are. Now I'm a part of a club nobody wants to be a part of. I lost one of my closest friends in a mass shooting about two and a half years ago. But he'd gotten to live a lot of his life. He'd gotten to see his, his daughters grow up. But these kids aren't going to get that chance. I think about my friend that I lost in 9, 11. He's still 23 in my mind because he never got a chance to do all these things that we've been able to do, to get married, to raise kids. And these 8 and 10 year old just had that robbed from them. And then parents that don't have their kids coming home from school, this isn't what America is or should be. And I certainly hope that we'll look at reasonable steps. You know, in Kentucky we don't Have a red flag law. A red flag law respects the second amendment but lets you step in that moment before people are going to get murdered. And think about it. You go to a court, the court is who interprets the second amendment to start with. And we entrust a court with the custody of our kids. Surely we can entrust them with. Is there enough evidence, are we seeing enough concerning signs to step in and to stop something before it happens?

[John McConnell]

On a much, much different note, yesterday guys, real kickoff of football season. Even though Andy, you and I had to go to the Nashville Derby.

[Andy Beshear]

The Nashville Derby in the Commonwealth of Kentucky.

[John McConnell]

Yes, but it went well. Three and a half million dollar race, four derby horses. You did a great job presenting the trophy. Didn't drop the guitar.

[Andy Beshear]

I handed over a guitar signed by George Strait to the winner of three and a half million dollars and I think he thought the guitar was cool. But he really liked the 3 1/2.

[John McConnell]

Mil much better I believe. But what a start of the season. We saw LSU beat Clemson. John, what about Texas losing to Ohio State?

[John Rabinowitz]

It was a big day for football. I've got one question. Of course I'm the least knowledgeable on sports out of all of us. So Arch Manning, I mean how many years are we going to see Mannings be involved in football like, like a 100 year dynasty? Is that going to happen?

[John McConnell]

It's a legacy, a good legacy.

[Andy Beshear]

They are going to be quarterbacks for 100 years to come.

But.

But not a very good start for, for a guy who is billed as almost the face of football this year. But you know, this is his first big game. But the question is, is he going to need another year? He was thought to be one of the top draft picks coming out after one year. But now in the age of nil, he's going to really have to think about his progression.

[John McConnell]

I don't know why he'd leave. He probably makes more money in Texas than he would under his rookie deal.

[Andy Beshear]

He will given that there are rookie deals now. But it's. When do you get through that rookie deal? But certainly I'm sure he has a very large nil package.

[John McConnell]

Hey, both are Kentucky teams won.

[Andy Beshear]

Yes, they did.

[John McConnell]

Did Murray win, John?

[John Rabinowitz]

I don't know.

[John McConnell]

Well listen, you tried. Thank you for your support.

[Andy Beshear]

On the podcast. John McConnell doesn't know if his team won or lost.

[John McConnell]

Aren't you like two miles from the stadium?

[John Rabinowitz]

If two miles.

[Andy Beshear]

Now on the Andy Bashir podcast, the segment call in my Kentucky accent. It's what's on my heart and mind. Today I want to talk about National Guard on the streets of Washington, D.C. and the threats that President Trump has made to send them to Chicago and other places. I want to start by saying everyone deserves to feel safe in their community or wherever they're traveling. And that doesn't just mean that they are safe statistically, but they feel safe. But my problem with the National Guard on the streets of our cities are threefold. First, it's part of our American ethos that we don't have military walking our streets, that we are a free democracy. And you don't see in America what you do in other countries when you get off the plane and see a strong show of military force. My second concern is that it's not going to work. Sure, you might in the week or in the month that the National Guard is in a community have less crime, but then they go home. If we want to reduce crime, it's about the hard work of hiring more police officers that aren't just there for a month, but every single day. It's different programs that ensure people have second chance employment and other opportunities. It's about making sure we're connected to youth that might fall into crime before they do so or after the first offense. It can't be a gimmick, it can't be a show with tanks on the street. It's hard work every single day. Certainly in Kentucky, thanks to a bipartisan push, we were able to significantly raise salaries for our Kentucky State Police. And we have the largest number of state police that are patrolling our communities and keeping people safe that we've had in over a decade. But the last piece, and this has been pointed out by some other folks, is that how it's being done is purely political. You see these troops in Washington, D.C. you see the threats on Chicago or Baltimore. These are all what are considered blue cities with either Democratic mayors or governors of those states. But think about this. Memphis, according to the statistics, is one of the most dangerous cities in America. But there aren't any Tennessee National Guard in Memphis. No, instead, the governor sent Tennessee national guard to Washington D.C. little Rock also talked about being a dangerous city. But you don't see Arkansas National Guard on the streets of Little Rock. Instead, you see other states national guards in D.C. shreveport, Louisiana, where the speaker of the House of Congress lives, has a higher crime rate in some statistics than Washington D.C. but you don't see Louisiana National Guard on the streets of Shreveport. No, instead they were sent to Washington D.C. so you can see in all of this that it's Not a serious attempt to reduce crime, but instead flexed by this president that isn't very presidential. Now, remember, when you are the leader of the free world, it's important that if you want to reduce crime, you put in the work. You do things that will provide solutions in the long term. And you don't make America look like this, look like those other countries when we get off the plane where we see that show of force. Listen, I love this country. I want to make sure that every community is safer. But this is not the way.

With the news that the Andy Beshear podcast is now a part of the.

Sirius XM Podcast Network, we thought we'd celebrate with the return of Will Bashir and Gen Z Lingo. Hey, Will, congratulations on the Sirius XM announcement. You've been a big part of this.

[Will Beshear]

Hey, I'm just really thankful that I've been able to be a part of this, and I'm really happy for what's to come for the future.

[Andy Beshear]

You started us off in the very first episode where we learned about skibidi and fire. So given that this is the first episode since we've been able to make.

This announcement, and next week, you're going.

To be with us taping live at.

Sirius XM's studios in New York City.

What is the word of the day?

[Will Beshear]

So I'm actually kind of taking it back to the first episode today, because our word today is gas. And you could say that gas is like, it's very similar to fire.

[John McConnell]

Yes. It has to be, right?

[Will Beshear]

Yeah, it is. It is similar. Like, you can make that connection.

[Andy Beshear]

But how would you use it? Is. Is someone gas?

[Will Beshear]

So it's like usually when you're trying a food and it's really good, like that food is gas.

[Andy Beshear]

Even though gasoline would make something taste terrible.

[Will Beshear]

Yeah.

[John McConnell]

I always wonder if gas was before fire or after fire.

[Andy Beshear]

Well, it certainly makes fire bigger.

[John McConnell]

It's so.

[Andy Beshear]

It's.

[Will Beshear]

It's a. It's a modifier to fire. Yes, it makes it.

[Andy Beshear]

So if you. If.

If you're eating something good, you look.

At it and say, that's gas.

[Will Beshear]

Yes, that's exactly right.

[Andy Beshear]

All right, we got it. What about.

I'm.

I'm told, though, that you can use this word when you're hyping someone too.

Like, you can gas them up.

[Will Beshear]

You can gas them up. Yeah. But you can't say let's.

[John McConnell]

I was so confused. Oh, you guys are watching some disagree.

[Andy Beshear]

If you are watching our YouTube version, you will see John McConnell staring very confused.

[John McConnell]

It's like you gave him the most complicated math equation in the history of mankind.

[Andy Beshear]

We are not gassing.

[Will Beshear]

No, you can gas someone up, but you can't say, guys, let's get gassed. Like, that doesn't sound.

[Andy Beshear]

So don't say that.

[Will Beshear]

Don't say.

[Andy Beshear]

Because that could mean something else.

[John McConnell]

Right. You're hyping the person up.

[Will Beshear]

You're gassing someone up. Yes. Like, you're. You're hyping them up.

[John Rabinowitz]

So try to elevate them.

[Will Beshear]

Yeah, exactly.

[Andy Beshear]

But food could also be fire. So it's just two different words you can use.

[Will Beshear]

Exactly. It's like, basically the same thing.

[Andy Beshear]

Well, speaking of using words, because we.

Maybe say fire too much on this.

Podcast, but the word I hear used.

Way, way too much is slay.

[Will Beshear]

Slay is a very overused word. And I think that people your age, like, when it was popular a couple years ago, kind of got it in their head where it was, like, a really good thing to say. And so now, like, I'd say, like, probably once a week, either you or mom is like, wow, that's such a slay, Will. Or such a slay. Lila.

[Andy Beshear]

Hey, Makala. To connect with my kids.

[John McConnell]

Macaulay, you catch that? People your age. You hear that?

[John Rabinowitz]

People our age. So, Will, if I go back in time and throw a few of the words together, you could say that.

[Andy Beshear]

That when you're.

[John Rabinowitz]

When your dad and John and I were on the back deck trying to figure out a podcast, we were doing it for the plot, and then all of a sudden it seems to have caught fire and now Sirius is going to gas it.

[John McConnell]

I mean, that might work.

[Will Beshear]

Wow, that's pretty creative. Kudos to you.

[Andy Beshear]

So SiriusXM is adding the gas to.

Our fire of the Andy Bashir podcast.

[Will Beshear]

It's pretty skippity to me.

[Andy Beshear]

And that's slightly Will Beshear and Jen Z.

Lingo.

That's a wrap on episode 22 of the Andy Beshear Podcast, which you'll now be able to catch every Saturday morning at 11am on the progress Channel on Sirius XM Radio. What an announcement. What an episode. Michelle Lujan Grissom, obviously an incredible dynamic leader. And then the conversation with the Johns on just some of the chaos we're seeing over tariffs and the cdc. To everybody out there, take care of yourself. I know it's a challenging time with a lot of stress, but that's what this podcast is about. And I'm excited that now, with Sirius XM Radio, we're going to reach tens of millions of more people and hopefully bring this country together, turn down the temperature, stop this us versus them, and realize we're all Americans first. I love this country. I know you do, too. We'll get through all we're going through right now, and we'll get through it together. Remember, you can download us on all major platforms or subscribe to our YouTube channel @andy Beshear Podcast. Your downloads and your subscriptions are what keep us going and keeps this conversation going. So make sure you're a part of it, and let's do this together.