Episode 22: Michelle Lujan Grisham

Andy Beshear Podcast

Date: September 4, 2025
Guest: Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham (“MLG”) of New Mexico

Overview

In this episode, Andy Beshear welcomes New Mexico Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham for an in-depth and candid conversation. The discussion ranges from the challenges and rewards of working in local and national politics, the current state of Congress and federal agencies, the impacts of recent federal policies (especially regarding healthcare and tariffs), and the importance of truth-telling and pragmatic governance in divided times. Throughout, both leaders reflect on their experiences, share personal anecdotes, and underscore their shared commitment to public service and to bringing people together beyond party lines.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The ‘Why’ Behind Public Service

[03:18–06:00]

MLG shares her motivation for entering politics, initially disliking politicians even while serving under them as Secretary of Health.
“I didn’t like politicians, even though I was working for them...And a lot of the things that you want to do for governors that you’re working for is move the needle, take care of people, deliver...but too much of that...is all federal.” (MLG, 03:49)
Her “aha” moment was hearing Clinton and Obama debate healthcare in 2007: “That was the sexiest thing I have ever heard in my entire life. And I decided to launch my own bid for Congress.” (MLG, 04:21)
She lost her first race, learned about the importance of having a campaign team, and recognized the shift in her understanding of how elected officials can effect change.

2. Local Politics: The Training Ground for Leadership

[06:00–09:20]

Daily interactions as a county commissioner taught MLG about transparency, public trust, and the challenges of serving constituents up-close.
“Everybody knows you...I learned about everything. I know about your electric bill, I know about your healthcare bill, I know about your college situation. And I think that’s good for American politicians.” (MLG, 06:52)
Her proudest accomplishment: forming a bipartisan coalition to pool resources for major infrastructure, achieving rapid success through collaboration.

3. Perspective on Public Health & Science

[09:37–11:43]

Both Beshear and MLG express alarm at current federal leadership de-prioritizing science, particularly under RFK Jr. (as HHS Secretary in this context).
“We eradicated measles in this country. We eradicated smallpox in this country. We are in front of infectious disease...And now we got the Secretary of Health and Human Services, rfk, who is telling you not to trust science...People have died. Children have died.” (MLG, 10:05)
They lament the return of preventable diseases due to anti-science rhetoric and policies.

4. Congress Then and Now

[11:43–14:19]

MLG describes Congress as having shifted dramatically—formerly fostering bipartisan coalitions, but now overtaken by partisan divisions and fear.
“There was a natural effort to make sure that [bipartisan cooperation] was occurring... Today...They don’t like each other, they will not work with each other. I would argue that some of them are afraid of some other members....Congress is broken.” (MLG, 12:33, 13:03)

5. The Value of Independence Over Party

[14:19–16:19]

Both leaders criticize current congressional abdication of responsibility, following party lines even when it opposes constituents’ needs.
“All that power was never intended for one person...Today, America, we don’t have three branches of an independent operating government. This is really frightening, but it motivates me...” (MLG, 14:52)
MLG affirms that she sometimes opposes parts of her own party’s platform for the sake of New Mexico.

6. The Role of Governors

[16:22–17:40]

Discussion of the National Governors Association (NGA) as a policy vehicle, not a political one.
The challenge: partisanship has paralyzed it, and federal/state partnerships are being undermined.

7. Governors Delivering for States

[17:53–21:54]

MLG lists New Mexico’s successes: universal pre-K, free childcare, bonuses for educators, free college (2- and 4-year), and strong economic growth.
“More states—more Democratic states—can identify those protections, those opportunities, those economic strategies than our Republican counterparts. So we can remind voters, Democratic governors...your job: you have one job, to deliver.” (MLG, 20:24)

8. Policy at Risk: Federal Decisions and Their Local Impact

[22:09–24:41]

The conversation turns to federal tariffs and Medicaid cuts, which both governors argue harm their states—especially rural and low-income communities.
“The cost of everything we use to build that house is double or more... jobs at clean energy... at two national labs are laying off federal workers... Healthcare premiums are already up...just under 100,000 Mexicans are going to lose Medicaid coverage...vast majority...are children. That happens now. And states are being asked to figure it out without a federal partner. It’s corrupt. It’s impossible to find the right words or emotion to talk about how destructive that is when we let children go hungry in America.” (MLG, 22:30–24:41)

9. Looking to the Future

[25:23–26:05]

Both discuss upcoming term limits and what’s next.
“I want to keep working for America. So I don’t know what that means in the future, but it definitely means staying connected with the people that are delivering for families like mine.” (MLG, 25:55)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“You learn more from the races you lose than the race that you win.” (MLG, 05:02)
On being recognized: “You cannot get string cheese on Amazon. If you want low fat string cheese and you’re a 66 year old 4 foot 9 woman, that’s what I’m after...Trader Joe’s has the best low fat string cheese.” (MLG, 06:38)
Beshear on federal service: “Never seen a federal cabinet secretary who is doing more damage than RFK Jr is doing right now.” (Beshear, 09:47)
On congressional dysfunction: “Congress is broken. And I hope that the Democratic governors can get to every voter, not just Democratic voters, that we have an obligation to put these institutions back together in a meaningful way.” (MLG, 13:13)
On “energy needs direction”: “Being against someone can create energy, but you gotta be for something which creates that direction.” (Beshear, 21:54)
On her future: “I was hoping to work for you...How hard is it to run the podcast?” (MLG, 25:34)

Timestamps for Key Segments

03:18 – MLG on entering politics; first campaign loss and lessons learned
06:00 – Experiences and transparency in local government
09:37 – Reflections on Secretary of Health role; concerns about science denial at HHS
11:43 – Comparing past & current Congress: loss of bipartisanship & institutional failure
14:19 – Power dynamics, the three branches, and the risk of executive overreach
16:22 – The (broken) National Governors Association and free trade
17:53 – Shift from Congress to Governor, state-level accomplishments
22:09 – Federal tariffs, Medicaid cuts, impacts on state policy and families
25:23 – Term limits and personal reflections on what’s next
50:23 – Lighthearted Gen Z segment on slang: “gas,” “fire,” and “slay”

Tone & Style

The episode maintains Andy Beshear’s signature mix of warmth, empathy, and earnestness, paired with MLG’s candid, witty, and at times fiery commentary. There are humorous asides (string cheese sourcing), moments of reflection, and passionate calls to action. Both leaders strike a balance between seriousness about contemporary challenges and an optimistic belief in the power of committed public service.

For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This episode offers a wide-ranging, engaging conversation between two experienced Democratic governors. It dives deep into the real-world impact of federal policy at the state and local level, the frustrations with national partisanship and institutional dysfunction, and what it means—practically and philosophically—to lead in tough times. The chemistry between Beshear and Lujan Grisham is strong, their candor refreshing, and there’s a sense of urgency about protecting everyday Americans from national-level missteps. Anyone interested in leadership, politics, or simply the human side of public service will find much to appreciate here.

Summary Table of Key Topics

| Segment | Time | Main Theme | Notable Quote/Insight | |------------------|----------|-------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------| | Introduction | 00:23 | Sirius XM announcement | — | | MLG’s ‘Why’ | 03:18 | Motivation for public service | “I didn’t like politicians...” (03:49) | | Life in Local Gov| 06:00 | Grocery store anecdotes, transparency| “I know about your electric bill...” (06:52) | | Public Health | 09:37 | Anti-science leadership at HHS | “We eradicated measles in this country...” (10:05) | | Congress | 11:43 | Loss of bipartisanship | “Congress is broken.” (13:13) | | Independence | 14:19 | Standing up to party for state | “There are things...not good for New Mexico.” (15:49) | | NGA/Federalism | 16:22 | Policy paralysis at NGA | “We’re a policy vehicle, not a political vehicle.” (16:22) | | Delivering as Gov| 17:53 | Education, economic wins in NM | “Twice the national average in economic output...” (20:24) | | Policy Risks | 22:09 | Impact of tariffs, Medicaid cuts | “It’s corrupt. It’s impossible to find the right words...” | | Looking Ahead | 25:23 | Term limits and future plans | “I want to keep working for America...” (25:55) |

Concluding Thought

Governor Lujan Grisham offers a masterclass in the intersection of empathy and effectiveness in public service, while Andy Beshear draws out honest, often humorous, but always insightful reflections on leadership in challenging times. Their appeal for reason, bipartisanship, and putting people before party is palpable—and timely.

Andy Beshear Podcast