Episode 25: Governor Jared Polis, Attorney General Rayfield, and Free Speech

Summary

Andy Beshear Podcast – Episode 25: Governor Jared Polis, Attorney General Rayfield, and Free Speech

Date: September 25, 2025
Host: Andy Beshear
Guests: Governor Jared Polis (Colorado), Attorney General Dan Rayfield (Oregon), John Rabinowitz, John McConnell

Overview

This 25th episode of the Andy Beshear Podcast is “solid gold,” featuring candid and far-reaching conversations with Colorado Governor Jared Polis and Oregon Attorney General Dan Rayfield, alongside a roundtable discussion on pressing national issues with friends John Rabinowitz and John McConnell. The episode dives deep into the realities of governing, discusses threats to free speech, analyzes chaotic national immigration and tariff policy, and offers a relatable perspective on contemporary America—all delivered with honesty, warmth, and humor.

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Key Segments and Insights

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1. Conversation with Governor Jared Polis

[00:03 – 16:43]

Colorado Roots and Path to Office

• Polis praises Colorado’s outdoors, culture, and opportunities for an active lifestyle ([01:58]).
• Shares his transition from entrepreneur (ProFlowers.com, BlueMountain.com, Techstars) to public servant ([02:33]).

“I was able to sell a company and do well enough and not have to prioritize making money, I wanted to give back.” — Jared Polis ([03:34])

The Affordable Care Act (ACA)

• Reflects on crafting the ACA as a Congressman and the challenge/importance of expanding health access ([04:31]).
• Stresses the ACA’s legacy: staying on parents’ insurance until 26, banning pre-existing condition exclusions.
• Warns that lapsing federal tax credits would hike insurance premiums:

“Absent that, our insurance office estimated rates will go up by 34% for many Coloradans...It’s brutal.” — Polis ([06:14])

• Expresses concern for rural healthcare and the damaging impact of federal policy rollbacks.

Depoliticizing Governance

• Both agree that people want real results—roads, schools, safety—regardless of partisanship:

“These are not things Republicans want and Democrats don’t want...” — Polis ([08:12])

“Why” of Public Service

• Polis’s core motivation: “It’s really about making a positive difference...” ([09:10])

On Being Governor

• Ran to implement universal preschool/kindergarten, boost renewables, and cut healthcare costs ([09:45]).

“If I don’t do this, the state I care so much about won’t be able to get these things done.” — Polis

National Political Landscape & Pro-Business Views

• Notes Democrats’ success holding governorships while cautioning about national party struggles ([10:34]).
• Discusses why Democrats should be the pro-business party, pushing back against Trump/Biden tariff policies:

“The one thing businesses don’t like is uncertainty. And right now the entire tariff regime is uncertain.” — Polis ([13:38])

Personal & Lighthearted Questions

• Favorite food: Sushi/Japanese ([13:57])
• Secret superpower: Cooking with his son (“...sometimes he’s a chef and I’m the sous chef”) ([14:19])
• Family favorite: Hiking near Boulder ([14:54])
• Shoe game: Sneakers—became his “brand” accidentally ([15:37])
• Encourages Beshear to bring his “shoe game” to the DGA ([16:25])

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2. Roundtable: Free Speech, Immigration, and Executive Overreach

[17:53 – 32:15]

Free Speech and “The Kimmel Affair”

• Discussion on government threats leading to Jimmy Kimmel’s suspension and rapid reinstatement ([17:53]).

“When I hear about the Kimmel matter…if his ratings are low…then get rid of them. But no way should the FCC step in and regulate speech...” — John Rabinowitz ([19:08])

• Worry about regulatory overreach affecting media, especially with companies needing administration approval for mergers ([20:43]).
• Noted Republican discomfort at undermining free speech:

“The thought of his speech being taken away really offended all of us.” — Rabinowitz ([21:14])

Immigration/Tech Visas Chaos

• Critique of sudden, high H-1B visa fees ($100k) disrupting tech and healthcare industries ([21:43]).

“I do believe in putting America first…But I also think these companies and these corporations may not be able to find the skilled workers in America.” — Rabinowitz ([22:42])

• Dislike of policy “gimmicks” and the need for thoughtful, data-driven immigration reform ([23:17])
• Recognition of foreign doctors filling critical rural healthcare gaps, especially from India and Pakistan ([24:13]).

Abuse of Executive Power

• President’s overt pressure on DOJ to prosecute political opponents ([25:07]).

“It would be the biggest scandal of scandals in just about any other presidency. But in this administration it just feels like a Monday or was it a Sunday?” — Beshear ([25:40])

• Importance of judicial independence and prosecutorial ethics ([26:00]).

Misinformation and Leadership

• Discussion of presidential claim linking Tylenol to autism—condemned as dangerous misinformation ([28:23]).

“Anytime you’re going to make a scientific discovery, you should probably have science with you as well.” — John McConnell ([28:48])

• The need for leadership that unites rather than divides, illustrated by the president’s remarks at Charlie Kirk’s funeral versus his widow’s graceful response ([29:49]):

“She showed grace. We should have all shown grace in that moment.” — Rabinowitz ([32:08])

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3. Statement of the Case: Attorney General Dan Rayfield on Tariffs and the Law

[32:15 – 40:47]

Why the Lawsuit?

• Trump administration used an emergency power (never before used this way) to raise tariffs far beyond statutory limits ([33:22], [34:00]).
• Chaos caused for American businesses, raising costs unpredictably and hampering investment ([35:00])
• Courts (specialized Court of International Trade) have sided with AGs and governors in challenging the president’s overreach.

Principles at Stake

“It’s not about partisanship. It’s about are our citizens, whether it’s the state or the country, being harmed. And then if we are being harmed, is it the result of an unconstitutional action? In this case, an overreach of presidential power.” — Rayfield ([37:35])

• Democratic AGs have won nearly all cases brought on separation-of-powers grounds ([37:45]).

Notable Moment

• Rayfield explains tariffs in Gen Z lingo for Beshear’s son:

“Tariffs are literally the most sus old world DLC ever. It’s like the working class is getting nerfed IRL while some boss level boomers are just sitting there like pay up fam. So yeah, tariffs are basically just capitalism’s way of saying get wrecked to the people who can least afford it.” ([40:04])
(Leads to much laughter—breaks legalese for accessibility.)

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4. Ask Andy: Listener Q&A

[41:56 – end]

Personal and Light-Hearted

• Favorite Star Wars film: “Return of the Jedi,” special mention for the newest trilogy ([42:13]).
• No soda anymore (“If I couldn't give up soda, how could I tell her not to do other things in life?...thank God it wasn’t bourbon.”) — on quitting after his daughter’s intervention ([42:54])
• Favorite ice cream: Peanut butter and chocolate, banana, and (recently) mint chocolate chip ([44:05])

On Leaders Defending Free Speech

• Respect for Republicans like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz defending Jimmy Kimmel’s rights even as President criticizes ([44:44]).

“Free speech is not supposed to be partisan and it protects people in both parties or no parties to be able to express themselves.” — Beshear

On Moments of Laughter & Inspiration in Office

• Found solace during pandemic death announcements in the kindness (e.g., green lights of compassion) shown by Kentuckians ([47:46])

If He Could Invite Any Three Kentuckians

• Jack Harlow, Abraham Lincoln (“yes, he’s from Kentucky!”), Tyler Childers ([46:36]).

On Optimism and Human Nature

• Recommends a book referencing the real Lord of the Flies incident, which debunks the idea people turn on each other under pressure.

“I’ve really, really enjoyed reading that because I believe that there’s this false assumption out there that people want to cause harm to each other. That’s not who the people of this world are.” ([49:08])

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Memorable Quotes

• “You talk to anybody in business, the one thing businesses don’t like is uncertainty. And right now the entire tariff regime is uncertain.” — Jared Polis ([13:38])
• “The law should overtake political motivation.” — John Rabinowitz ([27:29])
• “Free speech is not supposed to be partisan...it protects people in both parties or no parties to be able to express themselves.” — Andy Beshear ([44:44])
• “Tariffs are literally the most sus old world DLC ever. It's like the working class is getting nerfed IRL...” — Dan Rayfield ([40:04])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Governor Jared Polis interview: [00:03 – 16:43]
• Roundtable (Free Speech, Immigration, Exec Power): [17:53 – 32:15]
• AG Dan Rayfield ("Statement of the Case"): [32:15 – 40:47]
• Ask Andy Q&A: [41:56 – end]

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Tone and Takeaways

The tone is warm, frank, sometimes humorous, and deeply earnest—a human conversation about the demands on leaders, the strain of national politics, the threat of institutional overreach, and the value of compassion and connection. This episode provides strong, accessible insight into both policy and character—with an unwavering respect for democratic norms and the basic decency of people.

Listen if you want unfiltered perspectives on the real challenges—and quiet hopes—shaping America right now.

Transcript

[Andy Beshear]

Can lighter structures really be stronger? Yes, they can. ExxonMobil is helping advance American industrial innovation with Proxima systems, enabling a lighter and stronger alternative to traditional rebar while lowering greenhouse gas emissions to help build a more efficient construction industry. With sustainability in mind. ExxonMobil, let's deliver. Welcome to the Andy Beshear Podcast, a proud member of the SiriusXM podcast network. You can download us on all major platforms, but also subscribe to our YouTube channel. Today is our 25th episode and we don't have Silver, which is the 25th anniversary present, but this episode is solid gold. You're going to hear from a governor in Jared Polis. You're going to hear from an attorney General in Dan Rayfield. You're going to hear my conversation with the Johns where we go through a lot of concerning things that are going on in our country right now. This is an action packed episode. Let's get to it. And let's start with our conversation with Governor Jared Polis from Colorado. You're listening to the Andy Beshear Podcast. Our guest is Colorado Governor Jared Polis, a successful businessman, a great governor and a guy who has an incredible shoe game. Jared, welcome to the podcast.

[Jared Polis]

Andy, it's a pleasure to be here and welcome to the great state of Colorado. We're so thrilled to have you here and welcome you to our beautiful state.

[Andy Beshear]

We are shooting this on location in your state. Tell me your favorite things about Colorado.

[Jared Polis]

You know, Colorado is an amazing state. We're known for our beautiful outdoor and wild areas, of course, world class skiing and snowboarding, hiking, fishing, biking, you name it. And I think that's really what most Coloradans identify with. It certainly is, is what I identify with and I'm proud to call Colorado home.

[Andy Beshear]

So you are one of our Democratic governors that has a slightly different background than many people who get into politics. We have a lot of lawyers, me being one. But you were a successful businessman before you ever got into this realm. Tell us about your path.

[Jared Polis]

Sure. Well, I was an entrepreneur, started several companies, some that people might know, proflowers.com, large Internet flower company, I spent money on that. That's great. I'm sure your wife appreciates it. BlueMountain.com My first company actually started when I was in college was an Internet access provider back in the 90s, American information systems. So really enjoyed entrepreneurship. I co founded techstars and accelerator for the next generation of startups. So really enjoy early stage startup work and when the opportunity came to run for Congress because the person who represented my district, a fellow person by the name of Mark Udall, left to run for Senate and I just sold the company. And I said, do I want to go full time into public service? That was 2008. And went full time and served 10 years in Congress, was honored to do that and then now have the opportunity to serve as governor of Colorado.

[Andy Beshear]

Was there a moment that you decided that Congress or public service was something that was important? What was that inflection point?

[Jared Polis]

I would say, growing up, I always knew I wanted to give back in some way, and I was certainly raised that way. And I interned in politics when I was young. I never was like, oh, I gotta run for Congress or governor, run for something someday. You know, I thought maybe I'd be, you know, on different committees, like the kind you and I appoint as governors. I mean, I knew I'd be involved and civically active. I knew there's a possibility I myself would go into it. But frankly, when I was able to sell a company and do well enough and not have to prioritize making money, I wanted to give back. And so what a great way to do it. I got elected the same year as Barack Obama and got to work in Congress when he was president and was a big fan of his and continue to be.

[Andy Beshear]

Tell us about the passage of the Affordable Care act, because I got to watch my dad as governor implement it, and then I got to defend it along with Javier Becerra as the two frontline name defendants.

[Jared Polis]

Yeah, so it was really interesting. Of course, you never want to know the sausage making. Right. That's what they say about lawmaking. But I was there. It was my freshman term. We met as an entire caucus, went through every part of the bill. We all had things at the time we were fighting for and prioritizing. It definitely left my mark on how we could do it. It was a very exciting process, really. Writing a major law. We hoped a major law. At the time, we didn't know for sure it passed. Right. We were writing it. Always keeping in mind how this could bring down insurance costs for Americans, reduce the number of uninsured Americans. It accomplished some of that. You know, I don't think it lived up to its full promise, but the fact that Republicans hate it but can't seem to figure out how to get rid of it shows how enduring it is and how it's really a key part of the social safety net. And I mean, just common sense things like you can say on your parents health care policy until you were 26. I mean, can you imagine 23, 24, 25 year olds being thrown off their parents health care without Affordable Care act with no pricing discrimination because of pre existing conditions? I mean people forget that people with pre existing conditions couldn't get health care not that long ago. If you didn't get it through a big employer you worked for, you're basically unable to buy in on your own. I mean, so you were forced, you had a pre season, you either had to work for a big company or you were poor. And on Medicaid there was no, you couldn't be an entrepreneur, you couldn't start your own business, couldn't work for a small company. All those doors are open now for.

[Andy Beshear]

Everybody, including expanded Medicaid and the exchange which in my state led to so many people getting coverage for the first time. We went from one of the highest uninsured rates to to one of the lowest. So when you look at that, what I will call the big ugly bill right now, what are your feelings given that you worked so hard to expand healthcare?

[Jared Polis]

It's pretty brutal because it moves the wrong way on healthcare now in the individual market. As you and I are having this discussion, there is still time where Congress could renew the tax credits. I hope they do. Absent that our insurance office estimated rates will go up by 34% for many Coloradans, I don't think it's probably too, I don't know what your numbers are, but it's going to be across the country. It's brutal. So we hope Congress acts. If they don't, we're going to do what we can as a state. But again, this was fundamentally created under the Affordable Care Act. We'll never be able to fill that gap. We'll do what we can and help. But this is why it's important to address this issue nationally. And I really hope that Congress acts to reauthorize the tax credits in the.

[Andy Beshear]

For the individual market, I think it's absolutely necessary. And for me, rescinding the parts of the bill that are especially going to hit rural health care, the idea that any of our people would have to drive several hours just to get the care they need is also going to hit our workforce and productivity. It's no longer just two hours off. It's a day for you, a day for your kids and a day for your parents.

[Jared Polis]

Kentucky, like Colorado, is a fairly rural state, lots of small communities and you live in a small community. I mean access to health care is a key factor. I mean many of them have a hard enough time getting Their economy going, convincing kids and grandkids to stay without a health care provider, frankly, it's worse than just loss of health care. It, frankly, can spell the end of many of these communities you've got. And what the big bad bill, or HR1 or whatever you call it does is particularly devastating to rural health care providers and families.

[Andy Beshear]

How do you think we depoliticize the issues that matter most to people? Because you and I, as governor, our job is to get results, to create more jobs, to make healthcare more accessible, to have better roads and bridges, public schools, and for people to feel safer. How do you think we take the politics out of that? Because I think that's when we achieve.

[Jared Polis]

You know, it's definitely easier as governor than it was in Congress as governor. What you said is exactly right. I mean, people want good roads, good schools, affordable living and housing. I mean, these are not things Republicans want and Democrats don't want. Democrats want, Republicans don't want. They want safe communities. It's what essentially almost everybody wants. And we're in a position to deliver and work with Republicans and Democrats to do that. Congress is a little harder by nature, right, where it's a little bit more partisan. There's competing worldviews at the national stage, and it takes a little bit more effort to break through that and try to see yourself as somebody who's there to fundamentally deliver for your constituents and for our republic.

[Andy Beshear]

One thing we always ask on this podcast is the why is the what drives you? And what's that value system, that core belief that helps you approach the toughest of issues? So when you're faced with something, what's your why?

[Jared Polis]

Well, you know, for me, it's really about making a positive difference. Right. I've been fortunate. I've done well in business, have a great family, good health, and I want to make life better for other people. And that's why I'm doing this work and have been so dedicated to try to improve quality of life for my fellow Americans.

[Andy Beshear]

Tell me about the decision to run for governor. You're in Congress, you're fairly senior. That means you get your choice of committees. But you choose to come back home full time and serve your people.

[Jared Polis]

You know, again, wasn't part of some master plan. We had a term limited. Governor John Hickenlooper, he's now our senator, and really said, what do I want to accomplish? And I really, with me, it was about leading with what I wanted to do. And when I was thinking about running for governor, I said, why would I run for Governor, I want to do universal preschool and kindergarten, and I believe those wouldn't have happened if I hadn't run for governor and won. We got them done to create, put color on a pathway to 100% renewable energy to 2040. We have that in place. We're pursuing that. We're going to be at 80% by 2030, saving people money in health care. So these are things that really led me to say, look, you know, if I don't do this, the state I care so much about won't be able to get these things done. So I have an opportunity here to be a catalyst and help get them done.

[Andy Beshear]

So you're a Democratic governor like I am, and we're coming off an election in 2024 that while Democratic governors didn't lose any seats, and we're all proud of that, the party didn't fare really well. What are your thoughts about changes and direction moving forward?

[Jared Polis]

Well, you know, I think we all focus on what we do in our own races and how we win them. I'm no exception. I just focus on, here's what I want to do if you give me a chance to do it. And I hope this is, you know, what you are looking for. Here's my plan to get it done and then I deliver. And that's why I won reelection by record margins, by about 20, almost 20 points.

[Andy Beshear]

I, that must be nice.

[Jared Polis]

I carried rural counties that Democrats hadn't carried in decades. And again, the why is simple. You say what you're going to do. I think politics simply say we're going to do and you do it. And that's, that's, that's always been my, my plan.

[Andy Beshear]

As I look at the national Republican Party right now, I'm seeing tariffs that are hammering small businesses. I'm seeing the big ugly bill which is going to hammer rural hospitals, which are very important businesses. I'm seeing attacks on, on the private sector. If they want to value diversity in their workforce or how they invest their money. My belief is now is a time where Democrats can and should be the pro business party. Your thoughts?

[Jared Polis]

Absolutely. You know, when I was in Congress, I was solidly pro trade, worked with President Obama. President Obama wasn't able to fully get his own trade agenda done. I strongly supported it. We worked hard on the Trans Pacific Partnership. We'd be a wealthier, more prosperous country today and there'd be a more peaceful world had we gotten that done. Instead, it opened the door for this, these huge tax increases on these tariffs. And, you know, and I, it was an area I criticized Biden. We talked about where I criticized Biden. I, Biden was what I might call very softly and on the margins for more tariffs. Not nearly as bad as Trump. But when he went after China on solar tariffs, he said, that's ridiculous. We want low cost solar energy. Don't tariff our solar panels. Unfortunately, he moved forward with those, but nothing. We haven't seen the scope of what President Trump is doing on these tax increases since the 1930s. And it raises the cost of everyday items. Look, it's back to school time across the country. Everyday items costing more local stores. But it's also bad for American manufacturing, American business. I've heard from companies looking at investing in factories in Colorado saying we can't do that investment. We're going to put the factory overseas because we can't afford to have all the parts and materials subject to tariffs. And we'll no longer be able to export to a global market from a factory in your state because of the reciprocal tariffs.

[Andy Beshear]

Yeah, I keep hearing that there's a 30 point float, a 30 percentage point float. It could cost 30% more depending on what the tariffs are. And how can you do a project that way?

[Jared Polis]

And unfortunately, again, we compete with the world. And companies are going to be looking at investing in areas that don't have that 30% flow, whether it's our friends in Canada or Mexico or whether it's our complicated frenemies in China.

[Andy Beshear]

So the irony is a program that's intended to force reshoring is preventing it.

[Jared Polis]

It's preventing investment in America as we speak. Absolutely. You know, you talk to anybody in business, the one thing businesses don't like is uncertainty. And right now the entire tariff regime is uncertain.

[Andy Beshear]

So we like to end with, with, with some fun questions. So what's your favorite type of food?

[Jared Polis]

I, oh, gosh, I, I, I'm a bit of a foodie. We love. I'm gonna go with sushi in Japanese.

[Andy Beshear]

Okay.

[Jared Polis]

Just my favorite.

[Andy Beshear]

And if you had a secret superpower that nobody knows about, it could be. My wife's is packing a suitcase. Mine is cooking the Thanksgiving turkey. It's good once a year. What's that? What's that one? You think you've got something you're really good at that nobody knows about?

[Jared Polis]

Oh, gosh, let's see. I, I like cooking. I'm a good chef. I cook dinners for our family along with my son. Sometimes he's a chef and I'm the sous chef, sometimes vice versa. But we have a lot of fun with that.

[Andy Beshear]

Is that your favorite thing to do with your son?

[Jared Polis]

I'd say it's something that we can do in common, that we both like. Yeah, it's fun because as, as, as my husband and our daughter say, we are always like, you know, yelling and fighting as we cook. And he's telling me how to cook, or I'm telling him how to cook, mostly him telling me, but, you know, that's fun. It's fun. It's a good, good constructive fun. So we love that.

[Andy Beshear]

Favorite thing to do is a whole.

[Jared Polis]

Family probably hiking in the hills near Boulder, Colorado, where we live.

[Andy Beshear]

If you weren't governor right now, what do you think you'd be doing?

[Jared Polis]

I would still be in business. I love entrepreneurship, early stage work. I don't, you know, not as interested in big companies. I like starting and forming something new in a creative way and delivering, creating value and making the world a better place.

[Andy Beshear]

So I want to end by something I mentioned in your intro. You have this stellar shoe game. You've got some, some great sneakers. What got you into it and, and what's really exciting when you find that, that new pair. What's, what's, what's that feeling or how do you go about it?

[Jared Polis]

So I guess what became part of my brand is that, yes, you know, I wear sneakers all the time. So it wasn't something deliberate. I had never really worn anything but sneakers. I mean, in business, I was in tech. I never wore, I mean, maybe to a wedding. I had one pair of, like, you know, leather shoes, but I wore sneakers every day, whether I was, you know, meeting with venture capitalists or selling. So I just, I didn't change it when I ran for governor. And I kind of became known for wearing blue sneakers in particular. But I have Colorado branded sneakers today. I'm wearing, I think my blue ones, but I, I just, it just was a. It wasn't something deliberate. Then it sort of became part of my brand, and I wasn't about to put on something that was less comfortable just for a social convention.

[Andy Beshear]

Now we have Governor Meyer, who's joined us from Delaware, recently elected. Also into the shoe game. Is it okay to now have company amongst Democratic governors?

[Jared Polis]

Absolutely. Let's up the shoe game among the governors. But I think you want your governors to be comfortable. You should try it, Andy, sometime too.

[Andy Beshear]

I've brought a shoe game to this podcast. Admittedly, I don't have them on right now, but I appreciate it and you'll see me in them the next DGA we have right here in Colorado. Thanks for being on the podcast.

[Jared Polis]

Thank you. Pleasure to be on.

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[Andy Beshear]

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[Andy Beshear]

You're listening to the Andy Beshear Podcast. Our next segment is our conversation among friends, talking through the issues of the week, processing all of that information and news that hits us over and over and over. So I'm here with two of my friends, John Rabinowitz and John McConnell, to talk about what we've seen this last week. Gentlemen, I think we've got to start with free speech. I didn't think in the year 2025 we'd be having a conversation on free speech, but this week we've seen Jimmy Kimmel pulled from the air, though it appears he may be coming back on.

[John Rabinowitz]

Breaking news on the way to the podcast.

[Andy Beshear]

But it occurred after what appeared to be a direct threat from the head of the fcc, as well as threats and or claims of responsibility from the President himself. Now, with all the talks of free speech, it makes me wonder how people define it. Is it people's ability to speak positively or negatively about someone, or only their ability to speak positively about you?

[John Rabinowitz]

Listen, in my view, the government should never suppress speech. When I hear about the Kimmel matter, what I think about is it's more like an employee, employer, employee issue. If his ratings are low, if he is doing poorly, and you know, in the professional contracts and the players I represent, they have a moral turpitude clause. If they're doing something that's against the best interest of the company, then get rid of them. But no way should the FCC step in and regulate speech Especially when this speech is in hate speech. It's not inciting a riot. In my opinion. The FCC has no business in dictating speech to a private entity.

[Andy Beshear]

And John McConnell, this was, I think, a direct, not even a veiled threat. The head of the FCC says if, if they don't take action, then we will. I mean, putting it out there from the regulator that even controls the license for these networks to be on, well.

[John McConnell]

It'S weaponizing that government body. And two, if there's something that they don't like what you're saying, you need to change what you're saying. So you think about the three elections you've gone through in Kentucky and the different articles that were out there, the different things that were said as you went through those elections, coming out of that and walking in and all of a sudden turning toward the people who said things that weren't flattering.

[John Rabinowitz]

And let's not lose sight of Disney and ABC have business to do with the government. And you can't tell me for a second that that business or even some of the affiliates that that doesn't influence what they're going to put on the air.

[Andy Beshear]

That's an extra concern that some of these companies that own a lot of the affiliates for abc, one of them is got a big merger and that merger has to be approved by the Trump administration. And so it was the first to say we are going to preempt the Jimmy Kimmel show. But while this is going on, you have the President seemingly defining free speech as whether it is favorable towards him, saying that it's okay to crack down on. If most of it is negative towards him, then it's somehow not free speech.

[John Rabinowitz]

You know, it's interesting in talking to some of my Republican friends on this issue, this is probably why this issue flipped pretty quickly. Most of us, not that it's bad or good, haven't really seen Jimmy Kimmel and have no real opinion on what that speech might be. But the thought of his speech being taken away really offended all of us. And so I think it's like really an issue that they, we, the Republicans, had to get away from because they can't win on that issue.

[Andy Beshear]

Another issue that was out this last week was chaos calls caused by the announcement that the I believe it's HB1 visas, which are used for a lot of tech workers, among others, were now going to come with a fee of $100,000. Now, there weren't more details, but apparently was going to go into effect almost immediately. And across the tech Industry, we saw what I think we can only define as chaos. Bringing people back who were on vacation, people not leaving for work trips that they might have. And then different explanations coming from different parts of the administration about one time versus annual.

[John McConnell]

And then as with the tariff announcements, when they happened, there was little coordination between any of the various pieces of government. When the commerce secretary comes out and says it's going to be an annual fee, then the White House says, no, it's a one time fee.

[John Rabinowitz]

Yeah, for sure. Disruption. My understanding is that these petitions used to cost a couple hundred bucks plus legal fees. So it's a steep hike to do it. And I do believe in putting America first and putting American workers first. I think that should be a priority. But I also think these companies and these corporations may not be able to find the skilled workers in America. So that's why they're bringing them over for that three year period to train. And I also don't like, I've heard that another reason they're doing this is that when these companies bring them over, they're driving down wages. And I don't love that either.

[Andy Beshear]

What I don't like are gimmicks or hot takes or these kind of immediate reactions that obviously are policies that haven't been thought through. If we really want to address the visa issue or the overall immigration issue, let's just do the math. How many workers do we have in certain fields here in the United States? How many do we need from other countries? Because if the number of slots for these visas or the agriculture ones were the exact number of workers we need, then we wouldn't have some of the other challenges that we have in immigration.

[John Rabinowitz]

You know, guys, one of the things I was thinking about when reading about this proclamation is that while it does affect the tech industry, I really thought, think about our health professionals, our medical professionals. We have doctors all across our commonwealth that we may not have, but for those visas and it really could affect healthcare.

[Andy Beshear]

We have a significant number, especially of Indian and Pakistani doctors across Kentucky, significant numbers in eastern Kentucky that provide great health care and provide health care access in places where we might not otherwise have had it.

[John McConnell]

And look at the tech industry, like what you mentioned. You know, if it really is going to be America first, let's continue to lead. Then having the ability to bring the best and the brightest from around the world into our country to help us grow is a bad thing, I wouldn't think.

[Andy Beshear]

I think that's a good point. This is almost like saying, no, Einstein, come and work with US well, didn't.

[John Rabinowitz]

Elon come over on one of these visas? I think I read that he did. And so, I mean, you're right. Like some of the brightest people in the world come over on these things and you would think would advocate another.

[Andy Beshear]

What I would call abuse of power that we saw this week was President Trump pressuring a U.S. attorney in Virginia to indict two of his political opponents then may have fired, but we saw a resignation of that U.S. attorney. And then I mean, on Truth Social just directly says to his attorney general, you need to go after my political opponents. This would be the biggest scandal of scandals in just about any other presidency. But in this administration it just feels like a Monday or was it a Sunday?

[John McConnell]

You've got to break this down for the non attorney who's sitting out here, exactly how that functions and how that looks.

[John Rabinowitz]

So the Justice Department is clearly not insulated from the influence of our White House.

[Andy Beshear]

Right, but it's supposed to be, it's supposed to be, I mean the idea that you could be prosecuted because somebody doesn't like your politics or because somebody wants to hurt your business, not whether you committed a crime or not. And that the pressure could take a professional that by the way takes an oath just like an elected official takes an oath and cannot under that oath bring charges that aren't valid. And that's what I think you're seeing. You know, this was a Trump U.S. attorney who I think had a lot of loyalty. I believe the number two in DOJ is believed to have also looked at the evidence and said that there was not enough. And so now if this happens, if people get indicted, when multiple professionals said no, it wouldn't be ethical and there isn't the evidence, then are we really three branches of government, functional government right now?

[John Rabinowitz]

Yeah. And it's really interesting in that tweet, which is really shocking. He did have a follow up tweet as we talked about earlier, that talked about how much he respected our attorney General, didn't back off on it, but did not back off of, you need to go after these people and I need you to move now. Very direct, but calls them out by name. It's not a great look. And there's, to Andy's point, there should be independence. Like if there's not enough evidence to indict, there's not enough evidence to indict. The law should overtake political motivation.

[John McConnell]

So it's almost to the point to where the evidence is secondary based on what you can, if, if they go.

[Andy Beshear]

Ahead with this yeah. If they don't, then it would show the prosecutorial discretion and all of the rules that are supposed to govern what you do with the case will have worked and will have worked in the face of intense pressure. But there's just no pretense here at all. The one thing this administration does do is just say it all out loud. I mean, they own the big beautiful bill cuts in Medicaid, they own the tariffs and the impact they're doing. And he'll just straight out say, you are my Attorney General and you should do what I want. When the whole system around the Attorney General is designed to be the exact opposite of that.

[John McConnell]

It seems like there's a pattern here between what the CDC director having to leave and now people also selected by him. The judicial system being.

[John Rabinowitz]

Seems like a tough boss.

[Andy Beshear]

Yeah. John, you've talked on this show about your son, Lyndon. Yeah. And. And he is incredible young man that. That gets therapy for autism. Well, how did you react to this announcement that the President is. Is making, claiming that they have found the cause and it's apparently Tylenol?

[John McConnell]

Well, first, anytime you're going to make a scientific discovery, you should probably have science with you as well.

[Andy Beshear]

That would be helpful.

[John McConnell]

Yeah, it's helpful. And then what you do is you create so much uncertainty for so many people. I mean, you think about the growing number of people who have children diagnosed on the spectrum and all forms of the spectrum. Now all of a sudden, is every mother who's going to be going through pregnancy thinking, if they have a headache and they take Tylenol, they're now risking their children being born with autism. And every parent, including my wife, who has children on the spectrum, are they going to look back at their entire pregnancy and all of a sudden start to wonder if the fact that they took Tylenol. So it's the misinformation not backed up by the science.

[John Rabinowitz]

I've not seen the report yet. But your latter point is what I was thinking about. Can you imagine all the families and mothers that were thinking about, well, if I had known this, I would not have taken it. Yeah. Again, it goes back to what we talked about in the past, like, let's follow the science.

[Andy Beshear]

So a last topic I'd raised this week was what I saw as kind of two polar opposite approaches at the Charlie Kirk funeral. First, let me say that was an individual who died in a horrific act of violence, assassination, who should have been able to go home to his kids that day. And no matter what I think about any of his views, He's a child of God that deserves to go home to his kids. At the end of the day, you saw his wife come on and in this really powerful moment, try to channel faith. She showed grace and forgave that individual who killed her husband. And I will say, from someone who's had one of his closest friends killed in a shooting, that's pretty amazing that she can do that. But then you saw the president come on, and again, in an opportunity to create unity, chose to do the opposite and said that Mrs. Kirk had said we ought to love our opponents. And he said, I hate my opponents, and then kept talking about it.

[John McConnell]

Well, to your point, I mean, exercising free speech on the campus, people chose to show up to listen to him and to be assassinated.

[John Rabinowitz]

I don't believe that's what Charlie would have wanted, right?

[John McConnell]

I don't think so.

[John Rabinowitz]

Based on everything I've heard and read about him in the last few days, I think it was an incredible testament to him with the number of people that showed up. I mean, filled up a football field, maybe over 50 or 60,000 people.

[Andy Beshear]

Hopefully that's what his widow takes away from it. But just missing the moment again, to provide real leadership. You know, post 9 11, George W. Bush tries to unite the country. Post other major challenges. That's what the President is there for, to act presidential. And I just this us versus them. Even after something this ugly, we just can't continue with leadership like that. Yeah.

[John Rabinowitz]

It's one thing to be competitive. It's another to be extreme.

[Andy Beshear]

Yeah.

[John Rabinowitz]

And that was hate. And hate at the wrong time. She showed grace. We should have all shown grace in that moment.

[Andy Beshear]

Yeah. Well said. You're listening to the Andy Beshear Podcast. On this episode, we are debuting a new segment called Statement of the Case, where we're going to have an attorney general, other attorney or other expert come on to explain some complex here litigation or other issues to our audience. So in this very first Statement of the Case segment, we have Oregon Attorney General Dan Rayfield. Dan is leading the case against the Trump administration on tariffs, arguing that he has exceeded his authority and doing his best to undo what is the most damaging economic policy that I've seen in my lifetime. Dan, welcome to the podcast.

[Dan Rayfield]

Well, thanks for having me, especially on the inaugural debut of Statement of the Case.

[Andy Beshear]

So, no pressure, but we just need you to explain to our listeners what is a pretty complex legal proceeding.

[Dan Rayfield]

Yeah, and I guess the big trip is to talk about illegal. Get into the weeds without boring people on a podcast. So I'll do My best. But as you're thinking about, you know, your everyday life.

[Andy Beshear]

Right.

[Dan Rayfield]

Why do tariffs matter? It's pretty widely known and accepted that tariffs are not paid by foreign countries. They actually passed down to us as consumers. So that really flagged for us. Hey, we got to do something. And the first thing that people really started looking at is that the president was using a statute to implement tariffs that no other president had ever used. So, first red flag, and the other red flag is that the Constitution gives Congress sole authority to set tariffs, and then Congress has given the president some powers, but they really put sideboards on, and they're kind of what I call safeguards. Safeguards for the economy, safeguards for consumers. If you're a small business, you want predictability in how you interact. We started looking at that. And during his first Trump administration, he used those statutes, the ones that Congress intended. This time, he used an emergency power, an emergency power that no other president has used. And the significance of that, that's why you're able to see these tariffs at 50%, 60%, 25%, way outside the bounds of the other statutes that Congress had put those limitations on. So big red flags. So the summary of the case is that Trump abused an emergency power to implement tariffs. And so far, the lower court and the appellate court have agreed with us in that analysis.

[Andy Beshear]

So if he had been following the actual statutes, I take it we also wouldn't see the chaos of across the board, reciprocal, industry specific, company specific, constantly changing tariffs that at one point, the policy was you were going to get a letter, and if you didn't respond to the letter, then you were going to go back to tariffs from a couple of months ago. I needed a diagram to follow how fast all this would change.

[Dan Rayfield]

I mean, that's exactly right. I mean, like, one day your tariffs are here, one day they're. I mean, you have people, businesses, strategically gaming and staging materials before they move into the United States. Right now, it creates chaos for the people that are manufacturing already within the United States that need component parts that are only manufactured outside of our country. And so if you use those statutes that Congress crafted specifically for all of these purposes, national security to trade, deficit issues, it requires fact finding. It requires limits on how high tariffs can be, a lot of really thoughtful considerations about how do you protect our own economy while also making sure that we have the best trade policy for all Americans. And that's just a challenge that we're seeing right now. And again, I think that's why the courts struck this down, because this was such a wild departure from the norm of all presidents.

[Andy Beshear]

And this isn't just any court where you can run out to a district court here or a district court there. You all also had to go to a specialized court. Tell the listeners about that.

[Dan Rayfield]

Yeah, this is one of those things, when you become an attorney general, and you probably know this, the last thing you think you're going to be doing is practicing trade law. There's a specific court, and in the United States, we created what we call a specialty court for justices that really know the issues of whatever that topic is. In this case, it's trade and tariffs. And so you have the International Court of Trade in New York. We now have, I think, some of the few lawyers out of any attorney general's office that are certified in that court. And so we brought it in front of these incredible judges that just have a history of understanding this law. Very fun to be in front of expert judges who then ultimately, unanimously ruled in our favor.

[Andy Beshear]

Talk to us about how Democratic attorneys general and a couple of US governors are coming together to stand up against these violations of the law or the president repeatedly overstepping his constitutional authority.

[Dan Rayfield]

Yeah, I think that's the heartening part of our democracy right now is you have governors such as yourself, you have attorneys general that are really looking at this, at foundational constitutional issues. So it's not about partisanship. It's about are our citizens, whether it's the state or the country being harmed. And then if we are being harmed, then it's the result of an unconstitutional action. In this case, an overreach of presidential power. We have people in place in elected office that will say no and uphold those values in courts. For instance, Oregon, right now, we're involved in about 37 lawsuits. Wild Thing, if you'd asked me, boy, in what, less than a year into my first term as attorney general, that I would have filed 37 lawsuits, I would have told you, you've lost your mind. That seems wild. What's wild is that the courts are upholding them in almost every single case that we've sought relief from a court which is an incredibly high bar. You know this. You have to show that you're likely to prevail. We've been actually successful in almost all of those cases. That should really cause people to think, huh? Why are judges from both cloths, Republican appointed judges, Democratic appointed judges, awarding and actually siding with these governors, with these attorneys general under these circumstances? And again, it's an overreach right now by the Trump administration. So happy to be in partnership with you and a lot of others as we're moving this forward.

[Andy Beshear]

Well, grateful for your work and our democratic AG's are not getting the credit they deserve. When I was AG during the first Trump administration, when we stood up to that administration for overstepping, the media talked about it and people saw that there was Democrats standing up, pushing back. But ultimately I think what they saw is there were people just trying to enforce the law and our Democratic norms. This time around, when you all win a case, it's typically District Judge X or Y that's mentioned in it. Perhaps because we're rightfully worried about that branch of government breaking down, but want you to know, certainly on my behalf, but I think a lot of people out there, we are really grateful for your work and keep fighting back.

[Dan Rayfield]

Well, we appreciate it. Now I know your son is a huge fan of Gen Z lingo and is doing his best to educate you. He's trying on Gen Z lingo and so before I came I did my research and I wanted to actually talk about tariffs in solely Gen Z lingo.

[Andy Beshear]

Oh, let's hear this.

[Dan Rayfield]

So that way, you know, like at least I can connect with your son, you know, in this space. And so this is what I got for you. Okay, I'm down because I wasn't going to remember this. Tariffs are literally the most sus old world DLC ever. It's like the working class is getting nerfed IRL while some boss level boomers are just sitting there like pay up fam. So yeah, tariffs are basically just capitalism's way of saying get wrecked to the people who can least afford it.

[Andy Beshear]

And we just saw the launch of the Dan Rayfield Gen Z podcast that's going to educate people from all across the spectrum, but mainly my kids about tariffs. Dan, thanks for joining us. That was amazing.

[Dan Rayfield]

Hey, thank you.

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[Andy Beshear]

I need a coffee and you Need.

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[Andy Beshear]

As we wind down this episode of the Andy Beshear podcast, we're bringing back the Ask Andy segment. We have our producer Breland Tilford with us. What do you got for me today?

[Breland Tilford]

All right, so what I've got for you today is the first question. What's your favorite Star wars film?

[Andy Beshear]

Ooh. Well, see, I love Star Wars. I remember watching it in my youth. Even though the very first movie came out the year I was born, it was still so almost new and fresh. And so you loved the first one. But when Return of the Jedi came out, it was so cool. I mean, Luke Skywalker in the black with the green lightsaber was pretty exciting as a kid. Now, some people disagree. I really liked the first of the newest three movies with Ray. I thought it brought back a lot of the just energy and fun of the series.

[Breland Tilford]

Okay, okay. All right. What's your favorite soda?

[Andy Beshear]

So I don't drink soda. I remember when my kids were small, I would drink a lot of Diet Coke. But my daughter once was looking at me, and she was probably five Lila. And Lila said, I can't wait until I drink Diet Coke. And I said, oh, no, no, no. That's something you don't want to do. And she said, well, dad, why do you do it? And I said, it's a bad habit. And so she grabs a trash can and goes to the refrigerator and starts throwing them in the trash can. I say, lila, what are you doing? She says, I'm helping you beat that bad habit. And I thought two things at that moment. Number one, if I couldn't give up soda, how could I tell her not to do other things in life? And number two, thank God it wasn't bourbon.

[Breland Tilford]

That part.

[Andy Beshear]

That part.

[Breland Tilford]

All right, so are you team Conrad or team Jeremiah?

[Andy Beshear]

I need a little more explanation. I am not Gen Z enough.

[Breland Tilford]

Yeah, me neither. All right, so we'll keep it light. What's your favorite ice cream flavor?

[Andy Beshear]

Ooh, Very much like ice cream. Always used to like the peanut butter and chocolate, because I like that peanut butter flavor in it, but I also really like the banana flavor, like when you can get that right type of ice cream or in the milkshake. Very good. And I Used to dislike mint chocolate chip, but I gotta say, that's grown on me a lot.

[Breland Tilford]

Okay. Cookie dough.

[Andy Beshear]

I like cookie dough. As you see, I'm not turning any of it away.

[Breland Tilford]

So what are your thoughts? If you want to keep it light or you want to. What are your thoughts on Ted Cruz, Rand Paul criticizing the FCC Kimmel situation?

[Andy Beshear]

Yeah, I actually respect that Ted Cruz and Rand Paul are not only stating their beliefs, even though the President could react or respond, but they're actually standing up for their principles and a principle that I agree with them on. Free speech is not supposed to be partisan and it protects people in both parties or no parties to be able to express themselves. And oftentimes the worst of free speech rightfully turns people off towards that person or that idea. Sometimes when people can show the world just how ugly they are through their speech, then the world turns away from them. Real concern right now that this administration is pretty blatant about saying, well, it's not free speech if a lot of it is directed towards me and is negative. No, no, it's still free speech. But we're seeing that with, with Rand Paul, we're seeing it with Mitch McConnell on some things, standing up against tariffs. But what you don't see from them is ultimately coming out against a president that's taking positions that are diametrically opposed to these individuals convictions. And you don't see them pushing back on him, overstepping his constitutional authority. If you believe in the Constitution enough on free speech to where you'll stand up and criticize the President, shouldn't you on trade, shouldn't you on, on, on these other issues? And by the way, free speech is in the First Amendment, which means it's pretty darn important, right?

[Breland Tilford]

Agreed. I mean that's what we do here.

[Andy Beshear]

Speech.

[Breland Tilford]

If you could invite three Kentuckians, living or dead, onto the podcast, who would they be and why?

[Andy Beshear]

If I could invite any three Kentuckians on the podcast, I go Jack Harlow.

[Breland Tilford]

Okay.

[Andy Beshear]

Because he doesn't live too far from where the podcast is. And I just, I love his journey that he's been through, having, having been able to, to talk to him about it. Abraham Lincoln, because he is hours from Kentucky, Illinois tries to claim him, but I know where. Well, actually there's an argument about where he was born, but it is in Kentucky. And let's see, maybe Tyler Childers, just such an interesting, thoughtful human being, love right now how his music is all so different even on the same album. No one, like a number of members of his band and so I think those would be three that would be really great to have on. I hope two of them say yes. If we hear from the third, this world's gotten even stranger.

[Breland Tilford]

Yeah, right. Have you ever had a moment during your time in office where you just had a laugh despite the stress? If so, tell a story.

[Andy Beshear]

I was trying to think. There's a number of times that you have those really difficult moments where something makes you laugh. But I would say more of makes you smile. Now, during COVID I'd have to read the death list every day. And I did it every day because I didn't want anybody else to have to do it. I knew the weight of it, and I knew that there was a family behind each of those names because I'd hear from them and they would say how much it meant to them that their family member was recognized and that that loss was recognized. Before that, we'd always show some of the great things, the chalk art. Because when you think about chalk art where people would spend hours, it's so temporary, it's going to wash away. But they wanted somebody to see it during those tough moments. And then in Kentucky, people put green lights because we wanted to show compassion to each other. We wanted that person that had lost their family member, if they felt lonely, to. To be able to look out of their house and just see how many people cared about them. Those are the things that made me smile even in the toughest of times.

[Breland Tilford]

I remember those lights. We did that. What's a book, movie, or song that helps guide your thinking lately?

[Andy Beshear]

I read a book recently that really went to the subject of our people, good or bad, at their core. It actually talked about the real example behind Lord of the Flies. And they didn't turn on each other. They worked together to survive in what should have been an uninhabitable tiny little island for several years until they were discovered. And I like that because I've seen it. After tornadoes, after flooding, you don't see people turn on each other. You see the very best of people. Even in the scariest times, during the pandemic, we didn't see the same runs on toilet paper or infant formula. Baby formula. There ended up being, in the toughest of those periods, enough for everyone. Why? Because people recognized if they took too much, there wasn't enough for their neighbors. So I've really, really enjoyed reading that because I believe that there's this false assumption out there that people want to cause harm to each other. That's. That's not who the people of this world are this has been another episode of the Andy Beshear Podcast. I hope you've enjoyed it. I hope you enjoyed hearing from Jared Polis on the way that he governs. I hope you enjoy this conversation among friends where we went through a lot of the very concerning signs we're seeing from this federal administration. Hope you enjoyed the very first statement of the case where Oregon's Attorney General broke down what is a complicated lawsuit on tariffs into terms that we can all understand. And I hope you enjoyed hearing at least a couple of Ask Andy questions and answers. We'll see you next time. Take care of yourself. Remember, you can download us on all major platforms or subscribe to our YouTube channel @andy Beshear Podcast. Your downloads and your subscriptions are what keep us going and keeps this conversation going. So make sure you're a part of it and let's do this together.

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