Episode 28: Gov. Maura Healey and DOJ Whistleblower Liz Oyer on Leadership, Integrity, and the Rule of Law

Summary

The Andy Beshear Podcast – Episode 28

Guests: Gov. Maura Healey and DOJ Whistleblower Liz Oyer
Theme: Leadership, Integrity, and the Rule of Law
Date: October 16, 2025
Host: Andy Beshear

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles the responsibilities and challenges of public leadership in America, focusing on the intersection of personal integrity, the rule of law, and government service during tumultuous times. Andy Beshear sits down with Massachusetts Governor Maura Healey—herself a former AG and Division 1 basketball player turned pro—and Liz Oyer, a DOJ whistleblower and former U.S. Pardon Attorney, to discuss career journeys, current threats to American democracy, and what it takes to lead with integrity in times of crisis.

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Guest 1: Governor Maura Healey

Segment: [01:09]–[28:13]

From the Basketball Court to the State House

• Background: Healey recounts her childhood in New Hampshire and how her mother, post-divorce, sold her wedding ring to pave a basketball court for her and her siblings. The lessons learned on the court—discipline, teamwork, dealing with failure—became the foundation for her career in public service.

• “With sports, it just teaches so much about discipline and training...it teaches you how to win, teaches you how to deal with setback and failure. And I think for me, as a leader, drawing on that sports background has really helped shape and inform how I choose to lead.” —Maura Healey [03:00]

• Harvard and Pro Basketball: Played D1 at Harvard; went pro in Europe as there was no U.S. women’s league at the time.

• “For a little kid who grew up in a small town in New Hampshire, it was a great way for me to see the world...dealing with that kind of pressure was also something that helped shape a little about my character, probably as governor of Massachusetts.” —Maura Healey [04:17]

• Enduring Sports Identity: Celtics fan (“I wore number 14, which was the number worn by Bob Cousy…he endorsed me [for AG], I think that’s probably why I won the race.” —Maura Healey [05:48]), frequent “basketball camp” coach for youth, gripes about NBA losing traditional fundamentals while defending WNBA’s classic style.

• “People don’t know how to do a basic drop step anymore…if you’re talking fundamentals, the women really are showing it.” —Maura Healey [08:18]

Path into Public Service

• Legal Beginnings: Large law firm, then Civil Rights Division in AG’s office (70% pay cut for public service).

• “The reward for public service is just, you know, immeasurable. And from that day forward, never looked back.” —Maura Healey [09:42]

• Notable Cases: Led first successful challenge against the Defense of Marriage Act; predatory lending during the mortgage crisis.

• Underdog AG Campaign: No prior political runs, but won through grassroots focus and public trust in her legal impact.

Standing up During the Trump Eras

• Trump Administration I vs II:

  • Healey and Beshear discuss the earlier period when courts upheld the law and AGs “won” battles visibly. Today, Supreme Court unpredictability and disregard for norms have changed the stakes.
  • “The court is different. ... Donald Trump in the administration, I don’t remember them not following the law once there was a ruling. This is an administration...who don’t believe in the rule of law. They make up their own rules...doing things every day that are illegal and that we’ve never really seen before in 250 years.” —Maura Healey [13:53]

• Federal Funding Threats & National Guard:

  • Discusses President Trump “picking and choosing” which states (notably “blue” states) receive federal aid, impact on real people and infrastructure.

  • On National Guard deployments:

    • “To me, you know, with the Guard, they’re out there working so hard, you’re taking them away from their day jobs, their families. Right. Oh, and by the way, there’s a cost to all that. ... But I do want to say huge credit to the AGs who are out there bringing these cases. They gotta keep bringing these cases.” —Maura Healey [15:52]

  • Rebukes overreach:

    • “I would never ever disrespect another state by sending my Guard into another state when that governor, Republican or Democrat, said, no thank you, we don’t need the help…when I see a comment like that from Governor Abbott that’s so disrespectful to other states is disrespectful to America and the way we’ve been doing things for 250 years.” —Maura Healey [17:43]

Threats to the American Dream

• Cost of Living & Housing:

  • “This is what matters to people. Can I afford food for my family? Can I pay my heating bill? Am I going to be able to go to a doctor? ... So many people who can’t afford housing, can’t afford health care, can’t pay heating bills, can’t afford groceries.” —Maura Healey [19:37]

• Government Responsibility: Need for real government solutions, not distractions or sowing hopelessness.

  • “We gotta. And I think every day as governors, we have the opportunity to show people, you know, what we. We are building housing. We are fighting for your health care. We are delivering for you as a veteran, and we will always take care of you...” —Maura Healey [21:01]

• Tariffs’ and Shutdowns’ Impact:

  • Tariffs are raising prices for Americans, harming small businesses, soybean farmers, and rural hospitals [21:44–23:07].
  • Health care cuts threaten research and services, with Massachusetts cited as losing $4B in under a year.

• Scientific Investment & Vaccine Policy:

  • Trump-era cuts to research funding led to “brain drain,” with foreign governments recruiting American experts; states like MA now funding their own research.
  • Growing public health responsibilities as CDC is “wrecked”:
    • “If people want [childhood vaccines], you should be able to get it. Here’s where states are important. ... These are things we never would have had to do before. That’s the world we’re in.” —Maura Healey [27:22]

Personal Note

• Superpower: Laundry—calming, learned in Harvard athletics department [27:36].

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Guest 2: Liz Oyer – DOJ Whistleblower

Segment: [29:56]–[50:25]

The Story of a Firing

• Career Role: Pardon Attorney at DOJ, appointed under Biden, not a political appointee but career staff.

• “My job was to review applications for clemency...and to make recommendations for that type of relief that were not based on politics, but really that were based on the merits of the case.” —Liz Oyer [30:29]

• Trump Era Firing:

  • Was asked to recommend restoring gun rights to Mel Gibson, a Trump friend with a domestic violence conviction. Refused, forcing her departure.
  • “I’m not used to being told, here’s what the recommendation is that we want you to make. Now make it. ... All I knew about Mel Gibson was that he had a history of domestic violence and that he was a friend of the president. And based on those considerations, I couldn’t make that recommendation. And within a few hours, I was fired.” —Liz Oyer [31:35]

• Suppression of Dissent:

  • Before testifying to Congress about her firing, DOJ attempted to intimidate her by sending armed marshals to her home with a warning letter.
  • “I could see at that point that the leadership of the Department of Justice is serious about intimidating people into silence. But I wasn’t willing to be silenced. … And I went forward and I testified anyway on that Monday.” —Liz Oyer [34:24]

DOJ Politicization & Rule of Law

• Weaponization of Justice:

  • Trump pressured AG to indict “enemies,” replacing career prosecutors with loyalists—highlighting the case of the US Attorney for Eastern District of Virginia replaced by an insurance lawyer to bring charges against former FBI Director Comey and NY AG Letitia James.
  • “She has no training as a prosecutor. She has no judgment as to where charges are or are not appropriate. But she’s been installed in this important position for the sole purpose, it seems, of bringing charges that are politically motivated against enemies of the president.” —Liz Oyer [35:44]

• “The reason that happened seems to be that there was literally not one single prosecutor in that office that was willing to go in that grand jury and seek that indictment against James Comey or against Letitia James.” —Liz Oyer [37:45]

• Supreme Court’s Role:

  • “It seems like the Supreme Court, at the end of the day, a majority of them seem to share this president’s vision for our future...I don’t at this moment have a lot of confidence that the Supreme Court is going to save our democracy. I think we’re at the point where it’s really up to us, the citizens, to build the society that we want...” —Liz Oyer [47:58]

Erosion of Norms and Public Safety

• Purge of Expertise:

  • “The biggest concern that I have is really the sidelining and rooting out of career expertise within the department. … This has led to an exodus of really critical expertise within the department. … It really makes us less safe.” —Liz Oyer [40:31]
  • Cites FBI national security and counterterrorism resources redirected to immigration enforcement, dismantling child predator task forces.

• National Guard Overreach:

  • Deployments orchestrated by Stephen Miller, creating unnecessary fear and spectacle rather than addressing genuine threats.

  • “The militarization of our cities is a very—it’s very scary to people. … I walk around the national monuments and see men with rifles strapped to their chests just standing around. It’s just a very bizarre thing to see in an American city.” —Liz Oyer [43:59]

  • Guardsmen are “bored,” disconnected from crime scenes but visible at monuments—sometimes literally asked by citizens to carry groceries.

    • “We really don’t need National Guard troops here to help people carry their groceries.” —Liz Oyer [45:48]

Standing Up and Looking Forward

• Despite intimidation and threats, Oyer continues educating the public about government and the law via social platforms:
  • “I have found a new calling which is talking to my fellow citizens about what’s going on on social media. ... I have found that I can continue to serve the public ... by educating people on different social media platforms.” —Liz Oyer [49:31]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Teamwork and Leadership:

  • “That sports background has really helped shape and inform how I choose to lead and the kind of team...I run.” —Maura Healey [03:00]

• On Justice Under Fire:

  • “They make up their own rules...doing things every day that are illegal and that we’ve never really seen before in 250 years.” —Maura Healey [13:53]

• On Public Service Sacrifice:

  • “The reward for public service is just, you know, immeasurable.” —Maura Healey [09:42]

• On Intimidation:

  • “I could see at that point that the leadership of the Department of Justice is serious about intimidating people into silence. But I wasn’t willing to be silenced.” —Liz Oyer [34:24]

• On Supreme Court’s Failures:

  • “All of the other institutions, institutional safeguards, seem to be failing us.” —Liz Oyer [47:58]

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Notable Timestamps

• [01:09] – Start of Maura Healey interview
• [03:00] – Sports & leadership connections
• [09:30] – Transition from private law to AG’s office
• [13:53] – On differences between Trump administrations
• [19:37] – Discussion of the American Dream and cost of living
• [21:44] – Tariffs and healthcare impacts
• [27:36] – Maura Healey’s “secret superpower”; segment close
• [29:56] – Liz Oyer introduction
• [31:35] – Oyer’s firing for refusing political order
• [34:24] – DOJ intimidation tactics ahead of her testimony
• [35:44] – Weaponization of the DOJ, politicized prosecutions
• [40:31] – The loss of DOJ expertise and public safety risks
• [43:59] – National Guard deployments and their effect on civilians
• [47:58] – Doubts about Supreme Court protecting democracy
• [49:31] – Oyer’s new mission: informing the public via social media

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers frank, personal stories from two figures who have faced direct pressure to compromise ethics and the rule of law, and refused. Themes of teamwork, hope, resilience, and active citizenship run throughout. Both guests challenge listeners to remain vigilant and proactive in defending democracy when traditional legal and governmental safeguards are under threat.

For those concerned about the health of American institutions and leadership in difficult times, this conversation is essential listening.

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Transcript

[Nicki]

Hey, everyone, it's Nicki and Bri, and we're here to let you know that we have a podcast, the Nicki and Bri Show.

[Bri]

Yes. And we've got new episodes every Monday and Thursday. We're serving up real deal conversations that go beyond the cameras. Think Motherhood Confessions, Sisterhood vibes, Boss business energy and tv Live tea.

[Nicki]

Need a laugh? We got you craving inspo. We got inspiration and affirmations on deck. Want a little cry or a big Heck yes. Then that's our jam. Whether we're breaking down pop culture, sharing, parenting wins or fails, unpacking personal growth, or just riffing on everyday chaos, nothing is off limits.

[Bri]

Plus, we welcome incredible guests, play our favorite games, and do what only sisters can. Keep it 100 while raising a glass together. So pop a bottle, hit play, and come hang with us. Listen to the Nikki and Bree show wherever you get your podcast.

[Andy Beshear]

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Andy Beshear Podcast. We're happy you've joined us. We are a proud member of the Sirius XM Podcast Network, and we have a great episode for you. We. We have my friend, Massachusetts Governor Maura Healey, and we're going to talk about a lot of different topics, starting from her career in basketball, where she was a Division 1 player and even played pro overseas for a couple years. Then we're going to hear from Liz Oyer, a former DOJ lawyer who was fired for standing up for the rule of law and her principles. She's going to talk through a lot of the abuses of power that we're seeing right now. This is going to be a pretty intense episode, but we think you'll like it, and hopefully we'll all learn a lot from it. So let's get to it. Next on the Andy Beshear Podcast, we have Massachusetts Governor Mora Healey. Maura and I served as attorneys general together, and now as governor. She has been through some tumultuous times, both with Trump's first and second term, but we're going to start off talking a little basketball.

[Maura Healey]

Hey, Andy.

[Andy Beshear]

Welcome to the podcast.

[Maura Healey]

It's so great to be with you, my friend.

[Andy Beshear]

Well, it's. It's exciting to be up here in Boston. We are at the Democratic Governors Association Conference. Thanks for hosting us.

[Maura Healey]

Yeah, my pleasure. And we dialed up some great weather.

[Andy Beshear]

You did, you did. I want to start with your basketball career. There aren't many governors that can say they were a Division 1 basketball player that also played in the pros. Tell us how you came to love the Game.

[Maura Healey]

Well, first of all, love talking to you because, you know, there isn't a state that knows basketball better than Kentucky.

[Andy Beshear]

So I do love it.

[Maura Healey]

Great reverence for Kentucky basketball. Yeah. The story, probably, if I go way back, began with my mom. She was. She raised the five of us. I was the oldest. When my parents got divorced, she sold her wedding ring and used it to pave half a basketball court up behind our farmhouse and just set us out there to play, probably to keep us out of trouble. And I really took to the game and I loved it. And it led me to go on to play in college. And professionally, if I were standing, people would see I'm obviously a point guard. Cause I'm five four. But that sort of suits my personality and grateful for the game that, you know, with sports, it just teaches so much about discipline and training and just like getting after it every day. It teaches you how to win, teaches you how to deal with setback and failure. And I think for me, as a leader, drawing on that sports background has really helped shape and inform how I choose to lead and the kind of team, you know, I run. You talk about Team Kentucky. I love that. I love that. And we talk about Team Massachusetts.

[Liz Oyer]

Right.

[Maura Healey]

And it. To me, it all goes back to that. That sports background.

[Andy Beshear]

So basketball took you to Harvard.

[Maura Healey]

Yes.

[Andy Beshear]

Which I'm told is a university in Massachusetts.

[Maura Healey]

Yeah, it's a little one across the way there in Cambridge. It was great. You know, we played a D1 schedule, got to travel around the country and. And then when I was graduating, I was 21 years old, and I wasn't ready to, I guess, get a real job in some sense, or go on to grad school or other things. I just didn't want to. I didn't want to give up playing basketball. But at the time, of course, there was no professional league in the United States. So what women would do is get an agent and go try to play in Europe. And so that's what I ended up doing. I loved it. I played for two seasons, then came back and went to law school. But for a little kid who grew up in a small town in New Hampshire, it was a great way for me to see the world. And it really opened my eyes to a lot through that experience, including landing in a place where you don't speak the language, everybody's looking at you to deliver. And dealing with that kind of pressure was also something that helped shape a little about my character, probably as governor of Massachusetts.

[Andy Beshear]

Do you have to be a Celtics fan?

[Maura Healey]

Oh, yeah. But I grew up a Celtics fan. Right. I mean, if you grow up in this region, you grew up on Celtics, Red Sox, Patriots, Bruins, big time. I love the Celtics. In fact, I wore number 14, which was the number worn by Bob Cousy, the legendary point guard of the Boston Celtics, because, you know, I just idolized him. And, you know, and he endorsed me.

[Andy Beshear]

Okay.

[Maura Healey]

When I was running for Attorney General years ago, I think that's probably why I won the race. I got Bob Cousy's endorsement.

[Andy Beshear]

So as I think back, Kentuckians will wonder what number was Antoine Walker, which I think might have been eight.

[Maura Healey]

I think that's right.

[Andy Beshear]

Yes.

[Maura Healey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andy Beshear]

And then Walter McCarty, I think, was 40.

[Maura Healey]

Look at you. I love this.

[Andy Beshear]

Well, again, big basketball state.

[Maura Healey]

Well, I. You know, we can't get enough of Kentucky basketball. We had a couple of. Couple of coaches came out of Massachusetts. Remember? Yes, to Kentucky.

[Andy Beshear]

Yes, I do.

[Maura Healey]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Andy Beshear]

As you ran some of your elections, I know around Attorney General, you worked basketball into them.

[Maura Healey]

Yeah, I made big buttons.

[Liz Oyer]

Right?

[Maura Healey]

Basketball. Go, Mara. I wore. I was running in 2014, and I mentioned Cousy's endorsement. I wore 14, 2014. So we put 14 on the back with Healy. Very much like a team atmosphere. When I got elected governor, we had our party at the Boston Garden, and we, like, turned it into a big basketball fest and invited everybody to the arena and just had a great time. But.

[Andy Beshear]

And here I was in a hotel ballroom.

[Maura Healey]

Well, next time, try an arena. It's a lot of fun. I would say, you know, people. People vibe with that. Right. I mean, I think it's why we love our sports teams. People want to belong and be part of something, and that's how we tried to run our campaigns.

[Andy Beshear]

You ran some camps, too, didn't you, one day.

[Maura Healey]

Oh, yeah.

[Andy Beshear]

One off camps.

[Maura Healey]

Yeah, I do. I like to do that. And I like to play basketball with kids. Of course, you know, I have to challenge younger and younger kids in order to be able to compete, because my handle isn't what it was years ago, but it's great. Go do ball handling with them. Show them how to shoot.

[Andy Beshear]

Right.

[Maura Healey]

I'm big about the fundamentals. It's one of my gripes, you know, it's one of my gripes about the NBA right now. I think it is just so above the rim. And I love threes, but I think they're overused.

[Liz Oyer]

There's a lot of them.

[Maura Healey]

I have strong views on this.

[Andy Beshear]

Yes.

[Maura Healey]

That's why I like the W, you know, because it's A lot more. Like, it's a lot more fundamental basketball that I grew up playing and watching.

[Andy Beshear]

So we've had Steve Kerr on the podcast.

[Maura Healey]

Think about it.

[Nicki]

Yeah.

[Andy Beshear]

Would you tell him they shoot too many threes?

[Maura Healey]

I probably would.

[Andy Beshear]

I don't know. If I had Steph, I think I'd say shoot as many as you can.

[Maura Healey]

Well, yes. Steph Curry, I mean, he gets his own. He gets his own lane. Right. But, like, not every team has a Steph Curry. And, you know, it's just kind of funny, like, people don't know how to do a basic drop step anymore.

[Andy Beshear]

Right.

[Maura Healey]

I mean, the fundamentals around the big men have totally changed. And don't get me wrong, I love it when the big guys shoot and open it up. But, you know, I think, honestly, it's a reason why so many people are watching the wnba, because if you're talking fundamentals, the women really are showing it.

[Andy Beshear]

You're listening to the Andy Beshear Podcast. Our guest this week, Governor Maura Healey, who's telling us about her basketball career and talking a little bit about UK players in the NBA. But I want to switch to your career. So you went to law school. I think you clerked, worked for a big law firm, and then got recruited into the AG's office.

[Maura Healey]

Yeah. You know, I gotta say this. I never expected to be in politics. I did expect at some point that I was gonna be a lawyer and that I was gonna do public service work at some point. But, yeah, I worked at a big firm, represented a lot of. A lot of business and corporate interests, had a really good run there. And after about eight or nine years, took an opportunity to join the Attorney General's office. I ran the civil Rights division.

[Andy Beshear]

Martha Coakley.

[Maura Healey]

Yep. And then A.G. coakley. I also took a 70% pay cut. Oh, I've been there. I know you have. Right. But the reward for public service is just, you know, immeasurable.

[Andy Beshear]

Absolutely.

[Maura Healey]

And from that day forward, never looked back. Got to bring some big cases. Really understood the impact of policy on people and how you can be a positive change, you know, force for good there. And that's. That's how it all started.

[Andy Beshear]

And. And you're one of the few that has been in an Attorney General's office and then successfully run. I think Josh Stein is another.

[Maura Healey]

Yeah. And I think that gave me a real leg up when I became Attorney General. Look, as an Assistant Attorney General, I was involved in big cases. We bought predatory lending cases against subprime lenders during the mortgage crisis. I was the lead counsel in the country's first ever successful challenge to the Defense of Marriage act, which was a law that discriminated against married gay couples in Massachusetts and around the country. And, you know, got to be involved in some of those big cases. And seeing the impact of that work is what led me to run for Attorney General. And I was a big time underdog because I'd never run for anything before, school board anything. And I was up against some well established candidates, but we ran a really great grassroots campaign. And I'm just so grateful to the people who came out and supported me, including, you know. You know, as Attorney General, you can touch a lot of lives.

[Andy Beshear]

You can.

[Maura Healey]

And I found that a lot of people had seen the positive impact of my work, came to support me, and, you know, that's what propelled me into office.

[Andy Beshear]

On the Andy Beshear podcast, we're currently talking to Massachusetts Governor Maura Healey. Now, we were also AG's during the first Trump term. I was AG the first three years. You were there. The.

[Maura Healey]

And then you left us.

[Andy Beshear]

I did, but I was still around for good things. You were there for the entire term. And as I look back, it's very different than this time around. And when I think about some of the differences, both we had courts that were standing up, enforcing the law, and we weren't concerned about a Supreme Court that would overturn precedent just to allow a president to do what he wanted. But the other thing that I see is when we stood up and we won, we actually got credit. And as I look at this group of ags that are doing the same thing that are out there trying to make a president follow the law, they're really unsung heroes. What we see right now is the district judge getting credit. And I guess people are worried about that branch of government also collapsing. And so I get that. But what are your thoughts about some of the differences?

[Maura Healey]

Yeah, I think on some of the differences, you know, we. God, I remember those days, right? I mean, following the election in 2016, you and I and others, we got together in a room as AGs with our teams, and we basically mapped out. We sort of had the playbook of what. What we needed to do, because we knew what was coming, what Trump said on the campaign trail. And I think that's one of the reasons we were so successful in all those lawsuits. We worked together, you know, and we decided who was gonna go and file where and what was the best venue and all that. And I think that's why we won over 85% of those cases, I'd say a big difference, Andy, is the courts right now and the Supreme Court in particular. You know, you go back to the ruling a while back where the Supreme Court gave Donald Trump total immunity. Like that was something we'd never contemplated as ags, the overturning of certain precedent, like Roe with the Dobbs decision. So the court is different. And I think what you see today and where a lot of the concern is there are wins. And God bless the ags who are in there fighting for our people, fighting for our funding, fighting for health care, fighting for our veterans. They win in the lower courts and then, you know, it's like everybody's holding their breath as these cases go up. And so far, the Supreme Court has been disappointing on a lot of fronts. The other thing that is different, Donald Trump in the administration, I don't remember them not following the law once there was a ruling. This is an administration, Donald Trump surrounded by others who don't believe in the rule of law. They make up their own rules. They don't follow the rules, they don't follow the law. They're doing things every day that are illegal and that we've never really seen before in 250 years. And that's a different, different dynamic right now.

[Andy Beshear]

Remember we were in the White House and he confronted Janet Mills, Governor Maine, and she was trying to be polite but firm, and she said, we'll follow federal law. You remember what he said? Yeah, we are the federal law.

[Maura Healey]

Yeah, like that's an amazing statement. Right. But that's what we're dealing with. Just like we're dealing with, you know, somebody who right now is denying funding, picking and choosing, denying funding to so called blue states. I don't even like that word. Blue state, red state. You know, we're all Americans here, but we all know what it is to work together.

[Andy Beshear]

And there are Republicans in each of those states.

[Maura Healey]

Exactly.

[Andy Beshear]

And they're being denied these really non partisan funding. It's infrastructure.

[Maura Healey]

Yeah.

[Andy Beshear]

I mean, punish people by not repairing a road.

[Maura Healey]

Yeah. We just lost $400 million in transportation funding the other day. You know, that's not right. So you see that going on. You see the intimidation, the threats of National Guard, who, by the way, National Guard are our own people.

[Andy Beshear]

Yes.

[Maura Healey]

They're awesome.

[Andy Beshear]

They're welders, they're CPAs, they're our neighbors.

[Maura Healey]

Police officers, firefighters, who, by the way, answer the call. I think about some of the natural disasters you've dealt with. I think about, you know, what we've dealt with and them being on the streets through Covid and they're trained for.

[Andy Beshear]

That, for the logistics for being there for people at their toughest moments. What people don't see is they're not trained law enforcement and, and it's not a long term solution to deploy a National Guard to any area. But you and I also see they're not going to the high crime areas, they're going to the high visibility areas.

[Maura Healey]

Yeah. Again, it's about picking on, you know, blue state governors or blue city mayors or, you know, and the other thing that really is troubling to me about that is to me, you know, with the Guard, they're out there working so hard, you're taking them away from their day jobs, you, you're taking them away from their families. Right. Oh, and by the way, there's a cost to all that. You as a taxpayer, we have to pay for that. So, you know, there's just so much. But I do want to say huge credit to the AGs who are out there bringing these cases. They gotta keep bringing these cases.

[Andy Beshear]

Yes.

[Maura Healey]

We gotta stand up for the Constitution, the rule of law. By the way, welcome to Massachusetts. We think about John Adams, right. He wrote the Massachusetts Constitution. And then we say in this commonwealth, love your commonwealth, that, that was basically the primer, that was the roadmap for the US Constitution. So as we think about 250 years of great history here, right. In this country, we've got to lean into and affirm our commitment to the Constitution.

[Andy Beshear]

I've been thinking first of all about the unlawfulness of just claiming anything's an insurrection to send National Guard troops in. But the idea that you would send National Guard troops from one state into another state where the governor, the commander in chief has said, no, you're not welcome, that's chilling on a whole different level. And I just saw that Texas governor trying to be some tough guy had said, if other states aren't going to protect federal property or something like that, we'll send the Texas Guard to do it.

[Maura Healey]

Yeah. It's unbelievable, right?

[Andy Beshear]

Yes.

[Maura Healey]

I mean, and I look at what's going on in Illinois and Oregon. We don't do this. Can you imagine, you and I, you and I are commander in chief of our Guard.

[Andy Beshear]

Right.

[Maura Healey]

I would never ever disrespect another state by sending my Guard into another state. When that governor, Republican or Democrat, said, no thank you, we don't need the help, I'm happy to send my Guard. And I have. When there's a disaster, when there's A hurricane, a storm.

[Andy Beshear]

West Virginia and Tennessee both came in parade.

[Maura Healey]

Totally. That's what we do. And that's the beauty. I thought that was the whole compact of the states. We're here, sister states supporting one another. Right. And together fighting for this great country of ours. Right. We are not here to fight against or antagonize one another. And so when I see a comment like that from Governor Abbott that's so disrespectful to other states is disrespectful to America and the way we've been doing things for 250 years. We're states, we should be working together and working together on solving problems like how do we lower health care costs, how do we build more housing, which is an issue for every state in this country. How do we make ourselves truly energy, independent, Right. As a nation? How do we move forward? This is the space I wish our Republican colleagues would work with us on.

[Andy Beshear]

I love the word forward because it's not right or left and everyone gets the benefit of it. We think about the administration and the threat to America from some of its actions. I also think one of the big threats to our country is the belief the American dream is slipping away or no longer attainable. You mentioned housing. I mean, I can't imagine people in their 20s and 30s that can't afford a house when their parents could years younger in their same position. The idea, I remember I was talking to a bus driver who knew exactly how much her grocery bill was she could barely afford. She also knew exactly how much that family vacation was that she had never been able to afford.

[Maura Healey]

Yep, those stories touch me every day. You know, this is what matters to people. Can I afford food for my family? Can I pay my heating bill? Right? Am I going to be able to go to a doctor? Am I going to be able to take care of and provide for my kids, including giving them the things that we want for all of our families. Extra gifts or a little something special. Right. Maybe a trip now and again somewhere. The ability to take your family out to a restaurant for a special occasion.

[Andy Beshear]

Make those memories.

[Maura Healey]

Yeah, but right now we've got so many people who can't afford housing, can't afford health care, can't pay heating bills, can't afford groceries. And this is what I know you're focused on. It's what I'm focused on. Because to me, part of, you know, what's happening here is people have become so depressed that government is not delivering from them. And then you see a Donald Trump come in and exploit that and worse, not do anything to correct that, because he's only making things more expensive and more challenging. But also, you know, a lot of what. So much of what he's saying, too, at least to me, is an attempt to distract us.

[Andy Beshear]

Yes.

[Maura Healey]

And to keep us from talking about. Because he doesn't want to talk about.

[Andy Beshear]

Make us feel powerless.

[Maura Healey]

Bad economy. Oh, to make us feel powerless. To deaden us, to weaken us. I know you talk a lot about hope.

[Andy Beshear]

Yeah.

[Maura Healey]

It's so important. We gotta. And I think every day as governors, we have the opportunity to show people, you know, what we. We are building housing. We are fighting for your health care. We are delivering for you as a veteran, and we will always take care of you. We're looking for ways to make sure that we provide a good education in our states.

[Andy Beshear]

And we were getting ahead for our people. Wages were going up. And then this tariff policy.

[Maura Healey]

Oh, yeah. How's that playing out for you?

[Andy Beshear]

Well, first the chaos across the board, then reciprocal, then country specific, then industry specific, then company specific, and now product specific. That house is going to be that much more expensive with the lumber tariffs, with the now cabinet tariffs. And the upholstery on the furniture.

[Maura Healey]

Yeah. And the appliances. I mean, and the appliances. It's insane. You know, I remember if you buy.

[Andy Beshear]

GE appliances, they come from Kentucky.

[Maura Healey]

Well, okay.

[Liz Oyer]

All right.

[Maura Healey]

Love ge. My grandfather worked at the GE factory. Yep. For many years, along with his seven brothers. I'd say this, you know, I remember in the immediate aftermath, I, along with Governor Hochul and the New England governors, we invited all the Canadian premiers down to talk about, are there ways that we can still do business? Because we're so interdependent, our economies and, you know, just trying to find our way through this. But tariffs and the up and down, it's only made things more challenging, more expensive. And people are paying a price for it every day, Andy, Aren't they?

[Andy Beshear]

They are.

[Maura Healey]

They're hurting.

[Andy Beshear]

We're getting hit by that now. And that's small businesses that are having to lay people off because they get their materials from China or. Or some other country. And then American labor puts them together. We're seeing our soybean farmers that could lose a market that would never return, that cannot be replaced at that level. And that's even before that big, ugly bill devastates rural America and its economy. Because while people talk about land losing the healthcare services of the rural hospital, which is important, it's also the largest payroll in that community. So that shuts down so does the bank, the coffee shop, the restaurant. I mean, it's a huge blow.

[Maura Healey]

Yeah. And we're also seeing, you know, look, this whole fight right now and the shutdown, this is about healthcare, you know, and how can you not stand up for, for people's access to health care? And how can you say it's okay to allow people to have to deal with double digit increases in premiums, 70% increase in premium payments in some instances, people can't afford this. And I agree with you, we've seen a lot of pain already. We've had about $4 billion cut by the Trump administration to Massachusetts alone. Just in this district, 10 months. $4 billion. 4 billion, right. And then I think about big, beautiful Bill, that's another 350,000 Massachusetts folks who are going to be losing their health care because of what Trump and Republicans in Congress did. And, you know, this is why it's really important, I think, that we speak up as governors. I know, you know, on the health care front, I'm thinking about there's stuff we're having to do that we never had to think about before. Okay, so here, research, well, research. Right. I mean, why? And this really, we've got so many great research institutions and colleges and universities here, and we've got stuff going on in our hospitals. Massachusetts science, I like to say, saves the world. I mean, there's so many cures and treatments coming out of Massachusetts. And for probably 70, 80, 90 years, a lot of that was helped by federal dollars that invested in research, not just for life sciences and health care, but also for our defense industry. And all of a sudden, Trump comes in and cuts all of that. And you know what happened? The first people in Massachusetts were the Chinese recruiting our scientists, our entrepreneurs, our engineers, our researchers, saying to them, okay, the federal administration's taking away your funding. Come to China, we'll give you a lab, we'll give you 90 people to work with you. And so you know, what Trump is doing by cutting medical research, scientific research, national security research is just making other countries stronger, making us weaker. I mean, I see that real time here in Massachusetts, and I'm fighting like hell to hold onto it. I proposed $400 million that we as a state want to put towards research and discovery and innovation. But you know, the idea that we're dealing with a president who doesn't understand that America first and true American competitiveness in the world begins with investing in science, innovation. How are we going to compete in a global economy? You know, we haven't had to Deal with that before, but now we have to deal with that as governor. The other thing is health care. You know, we sort of saw this coming with with RFK Jr. But vaccines. Yes, vaccines.

[Andy Beshear]

So had eliminated measles, mumps, chickenpox.

[Maura Healey]

I mean, like polio.

[Andy Beshear]

Things we'd rather not see come back ever. Yes. But now Florida wants to welcome them into their schools just like their kids.

[Maura Healey]

Yeah. I've said measles is not the souvenir one wants to return from Disney World with. But what do we do? So here we got news of that. And our department of Public health and our commissioner quickly turned around, wrote a prescription. If you want a Covid shot, you want a flu shot, you can get one. And I brought together the insurers who agreed to cover the costs, the pharmacists who agreed to distribute the shots. And so now everybody in Massachusetts can get what they need, whether it's for flu or Covid or pneumonia. And we're going to do the same when it comes to childhood vaccines. If people want it, you should be able to get it. Here's where states are important. We've worked together as a coalition of states to set up a public health infrastructure so that if the cdc, which has been completely wrecked by rfk, is not going to do disease monitoring in our states, then we're going to do it and share that data. Right. But these are things we never would have had to do before. That's the world we're in.

[Andy Beshear]

As we close out, we like to ask everybody a couple of fun questions.

[Maura Healey]

All right.

[Andy Beshear]

To get to know you a little bit better, what is your secret superpower? That's something you do really well that most people don't know.

[Maura Healey]

Laundry. Oh, yeah, no, I'm an excellent.

[Andy Beshear]

That's a good one.

[Maura Healey]

You know, one of my work study jobs.

[Andy Beshear]

What about the folding? What?

[Maura Healey]

Well, when I was in college, I worked in the athletic department in the equipment room. Used to wash everybody all the team's clothes. And then so many towels. Right. As T shirts, everything. So I got really good at laundry and folding clothes. And you know what? It's very calming. I come home at night. I mean, what do you do at night? Right? There's like a swirl. There's a lot going on in your day. A lot you're preparing for the next day. A lot you're thinking about. And I just settle in and do some laundry. So that's something that's sort of a. I'm kidding. But not really.

[Andy Beshear]

This has been Maura Healey on the Andy Beshear Podcast the Governor of Massachusetts.

[Nicki]

Hey everyone, it's Nikki and Bri and we're here to let you know that we have a podcast, the Nikki and Bri Show.

[Bri]

Yes, and we've got new episodes every Monday and Thursday. We're serving up real deal conversations that go beyond the cameras and think motherhood confessions, sisterhood vibes, boss business energy and TV life. Tea.

[Nicki]

Need a laugh? We got you craving inspo. We got inspiration and affirmations on deck. Want a little cry or a big? Heck yes. That's our jam. Whether we're breaking down pop culture, sharing, parenting wins or fails, unpacking personal growth, or just riffing on everyday chaos, nothing is off limits.

[Bri]

Plus, we welcome incredible guests, play our favorite games, and do what only sisters can. Keep it 100 while raising a glass together. So pop a bottle, hit play, and come hang with us. Listen to the Nikki and Bree show wherever you get your podcast.

[LifeLock Announcer]

It's Cybersecurity awareness month and LifeLock is here with tips to help protect your identity, use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication, and report phishing scams. And for comprehensive identity protection, Lifelock is your best choice. LifeLock alerts you to suspicious uses of your personal information and also fixes identity theft, guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, stay safe, and stay protected with a 30 day free [e-mail] Specialoffer terms apply.

[Andy Beshear]

Our next guest on the Andy Beshear podcast is Liz Oyer. Liz was a lawyer at the Department of Justice. She was the US pardon attorney appointed in 2022 by then President Joe Biden. And normally in the introduction we tell you a little bit more about the background of our guest. But with everything that Liz has been through, I want to make sure she can tell that story herself. Liz, welcome to the podcast.

[Liz Oyer]

Thanks so much for having me on, Governor.

[Andy Beshear]

You have had quite a year.

[Liz Oyer]

Sure, yeah. So I did serve in the Justice Department during the Biden administration, but I actually was not a political appointee. I was a career professional in the just department. And my job was to review applications for clemency, so for pardons and commutations of sentence from the president and to make recommendations for that type of relief that were not based on politics, but really that were based on the merits of the case. I intended to stay on in that role into the new presidential administration and to continue to serve in that role under President Trump. And I did that for about seven weeks before I was very abruptly fired. On a Friday afternoon, I was asked to make a recommendation that the attorney General Grant, some. Some relief to a friend of the President, the actor Mel Gibson. He was seeking to have his firearm rights restored. And I was asked to write a memo to the Attorney General, essentially recommending that she restore Mel Gibson's gun rights.

[Andy Beshear]

So they told you the opinion that they wanted ahead of time?

[Liz Oyer]

Yeah, they. They asked me to specifically to make that recommendation that he got that relief. So I was, you know, I'm a career professional. I provide my expertise and opinions all the time, but I'm not used to being told, here's what the recommendation is that we want you to make. Now make it. But that's what happened in this case, and I wasn't able to do that because the reason that this particular person lost his right to own a gun is because he was convicted of a crime involving domestic violence. And there's a huge amount of data that shows that it is very dangerous when people who commit domestic violence have firearms. Those incidents are much more likely to be fatal if the person is armed. And really, all I knew about Mel Gibson was that he had a history of domestic violence and that he was a friend of the president. And based on those considerations, I couldn't make that recommendation. And within a few hours, I was fired.

[Andy Beshear]

And to correct part of my introduction. And so our listeners understand, when you are working for the Department of Justice or the federal government, you can be a political appointee or you can be a career professional. And when you are a career professional, you're supposed to have certain safeguards and extra rights that extend from one administration to another.

[Liz Oyer]

Yeah, that's exactly right. And the overwhelming majority of the workforce of the Justice Department is career professionals. I mean, more than 90% of the workforce, the people who do most of the work day to day are career employees who expect to be able to serve under any president and expect that as long as they serve faithfully and uphold their duties and do a good job, they'll keep their jobs. That hasn't been the case recently, unfortunately, for a great many career professionals throughout the Justice Department department.

[Andy Beshear]

But that firing wasn't the end of your story because you chose to do what so many members of Congress, for instance, won't. You spoke out. You were willing to tell your story to the world, and you even testified.

[Liz Oyer]

I did. Yeah. So I was asked to testify before members of Congress about what had happened with my firing. And unfortunately, I was asked to testify only in front of a bicameral group of Democrats. This, in my mind, was not a partisan issue. It's really an issue that should be concerning to all members of Congress, the fact that career experts are being fired for using their expertise to make recommendations consistent with public safety. But in any event, I was asked to appear at this bicameral spotlight hearing held by the Democrats, and I agreed to do that. And the hearing was scheduled to take place on a Monday. The Friday night before the hearing, I was out at a show with my parents and my husband, and we were driving home, and I got a call from someone at the Justice Department who was really just calling to be a good Samaritan, not supposed to be calling me, and let me know that the Deputy Attorney General had sent armed special deputy U.S. marshals to my home to deliver me a letter that was intended to warn me about the risks of testifying and telling my story in front of members of Congress. That was obviously a very alarming development. It was very frightening for me and my family. And my teenager was actually home alone at the time that that happened. And thanks to the grace and kindness of this person who was willing to go out on a limb, we were able to get those officers turned around so that they didn't show up at my door at 10 o' clock at night when my child was home alone. And I could see at that point that the leadership of the Department of Justice is serious about intimidating people into silence. But I wasn't willing to be silenced. I don't like to be bullied. And I went forward and I testified anyway on that Monday.

[Andy Beshear]

Good for you. And now we've seen these types of things happen over and over. We've seen a weaponized Department of Justice. This will. We're filming this on a Friday. It'll come out the next Thursday. But we've just seen the indictment of New York's Attorney General, former FBI Director Comey, each of which is obviously political and pressured by the president.

[Liz Oyer]

Yeah. The president has been explicit in pressuring the attorney General to bring these indictments. And we've seen a number of career prosecutors and a prosecutor that was selected by this president be forced out of their positions because they're not willing to pursue these charges that don't seem to have legal or factual merit. The president has now replaced the US Attorney that was in that role in the Eastern District of Virginia, where these charges are being brought with someone who's an insurance lawyer by background. She's worked for Trump personally. She has no training as a prosecutor. She has no judgment as to where charges are or are not appropriate. But she's been installed in this important position for the sole purpose it seems of bringing charges that are politically motivated against enemies of the president.

[Andy Beshear]

I think we should point out that the prosecutor that was forced to resign so this person could come in and carry out the political will was a Trump appointee himself.

[Maura Healey]

Yep.

[Liz Oyer]

Yeah. So he was appointed by Donald Trump. He was a legitimate prosecutor, though. He's somebody who had come up through the ranks as a prosecutor, and so he understands that you have to have facts and law on your side to bring a case. You don't bring it for purely political reasons. And at the end of the day, he was not willing to bring a case case that wasn't supported by facts or law. And so he was fired, and he was replaced by somebody who is essentially a sham prosecutor, Somebody who has no qualifications, no relevant experience, just willing to do the bidding of this. This president in ways that are really very destructive to the rule of law in our country and to public confidence in the judicial system and the criminal justice system.

[Andy Beshear]

You're getting this former attorney general pretty fired up. This. This sham prosecutor also personally presented to the grand jury to get the indictment, despite the fact she had never, ever, ever done so before.

[Liz Oyer]

Yeah, it's really unheard of, the idea that the U.S. attorney themself, who's the highest prosecutor in an office, would go into a grand jury themself and present the evidence. That's unheard of. The reason that happened seems to be that there was literally not one single prosecutor in that office that was willing to go in that grand jury and seek that indictment against James Comey or against Letitia James. That's an office of about 300 people. So it's pretty stunning that she couldn't find one person who was willing to go into the grand jury, but she ended up having to do it herself. By all accounts, she fumbled around quite a bit figuring out how to do it. It will be very interesting to see what the transcript reflects. And if it comes to light, she actually had to bring in prosecutors from North Carolina to assist her with the Comey arraignment. An arraignment is a very straightforward, simple court proceeding, but she doesn't know how to do one. So she brought in some prosecutors from another state to help her because no one in that office wants to work on that case.

[Andy Beshear]

And when we think about evidence, especially with former Director Comey's claim, and I think it's more than a claim, I think it's truth of selective prosecution. The president didn't just say it, he wrote it, and he put it out there on Truth Social for Everyone to see.

[Liz Oyer]

Yeah, it's really stunning. Part of what the president is doing and his staff are doing in some of these cases is they're really papering a record of the vindictiveness and selectiveness of the prosecutions that they're bringing, which may come back to bite them in court proceedings. We've already seen in another case the criminal prosecution of Kilmar Brego Garcia, who was wrongly deported and had extended litigation about returning him to the US From El Salvador. A court in that case actually found that there's a likelihood that the decision to prosecute him criminally was vindictive and illegal, based on public statements that the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanch, made. And I expect that we'll see in the Comey case that the statements of Trump and others in the public domain will similarly be used to argue that the charges were based on illegal political motivations and have to be dismissed before they even get to a jury.

[Andy Beshear]

On the Andy Beshear podcast, we're having a conversation with Liz Oyer, a former Department of Justice lawyer who was fired simply for doing her job, but is now standing up for all the principles we wish everyone would stand up for. Tell us your other concerns, because there are so many different violations, breaking of the norms of this Department of Justice.

[Liz Oyer]

Yeah. The biggest concern that I have is really the sidelining and rooting out of career expertise within the department. Part of the Department of Justice includes law enforcement agencies like the FBI. And we have seen throughout the FBI and throughout the prosecuting offices of the Justice Department that career experts who are perceived as roadblocks to implementing the president's political agenda are being fired without cause. And this has led to an exodus of really critical expertise within the department. We've seen a huge number of national security specialists and counterterrorism specialists sidelined. We've seen such a departure of expertise that I have grave concern that we may really see something awful happen in our country before we all understand the full effects of this war on career expertise that this administration has waged inside the Justice Department. It really makes us less safe. All of America, people on the right, people on the left, all of us.

[Andy Beshear]

I think that's a really important point, both in folks that have a wealth of experience being terminated, but also what different agencies are being rerouted to do. I read that the FBI now has at least a quarter to a third of the agency that's been rerouted towards immigration enforcement. And that leads me to think about all the things when I was ag, we worked with the FBI on we chased child predators, we chased scammers, and now there are fewer people out there, for instance, protecting our kids or enforcing really important laws.

[Liz Oyer]

Yeah, there actually has been some really good reporting on what specifically is not being done because of this focus on immigration enforcement. And one example that I found really alarming is there's a task for force of FBI agents in Baltimore who 10 agents in total who were assigned to go after this ring of online child predators, people who were targeting children online and using them for sexual exploitation. A really dangerous group of people. And those agents were all reassigned to immigration enforcement essentially to accompany ICE on immigration raids. And they had to shut down that investigation of an actual active threat to children online. So the fact that that is is taking a back seat to working to deport as many people as we can in our communities is just a incorrect prioritization of resources and something that really places our children in danger.

[Andy Beshear]

Absolutely. And I'd add that it's not just the work that they are doing as a state ag. When we were chasing child predators, they were often in other states. And for that we would need the help of those task force. So it has a multiplying effect of how much less safe our kids are. You know, it also seems incredibly concerning the type of advice that is being given to the President, if indeed there is advice being given about his use of the National Guard. Tell us your thoughts on that.

[Liz Oyer]

Yeah. The deployments of the National Guard seem to be the handiwork of Stephen Miller, who is somebody who has said that he believes in the plenary power of the executive. The President essentially should be allowed to do whatever he wants with the National Guard. There have been some serious legal challenges raised to the deployments of the National Guard, and it's going to take some time for that all to play play out in the courts. But in the meantime, it seems like what is happening in cities across America is the presence of the National Guard or the threats to send the National Guard are creating problems that didn't even exist before. They're sort of intentionally trying to whip people into a frenzy to create problems that didn't previously exist. And the militarization of our cities is a very. It's very scary to people. I Live in Washington, D.C. where because of our status as sort of a quasi federal entity, we don't have control of our own National Guard. So the President was able to freely deploy the National Guard. And I walk around the national monuments and see men with rifles strapped to their chests just standing around. It's just A very bizarre thing to see in an American city. It's not part of the ordinary democratic life that we're used to, and it's really, frankly, not necessary.

[Andy Beshear]

I think about where the Guard are is also very telling. First, that we had Tennessee national guard in Washington, D.C. when we didn't have Tennessee National Guard in Memphis, which is a more violent city. But describe to the listeners, are the national guard in Washington, D.C. where crime actually occurs, or are they out there in places where they're a show, a prop?

[Liz Oyer]

You know, they're really not anywhere near where crime is occurring. They're around the national monuments. They're gathered around Union Station, which is the train station, just strolling around, standing around. They honestly look pretty bored for the most part. You know, the troops that are deployed here, I think that they understand that most of the residents don't want them here, and they're trying to preemptively de escalate the situation by being friendly to passersby. I actually saw something that I found pretty hilarious on Instagram a couple weeks ago, which is a woman who had parked her car about two blocks away from a Trader Joe's grocery store had a bunch of grocery bags, and she decided to try asking the National Guard troops just literally standing outside the Trader Joe's if they would help her carry her groceries to her car. And she filmed it, and they did, and it was very nice. But, you know, we really don't need National Guard troops here to help people carry their groceries.

[Andy Beshear]

In general, we don't. But that is such a great example of who the Guard is. You know, I've had.

[Liz Oyer]

Yeah, yeah, I've had to call out.

[Andy Beshear]

My Guard more than any other governor in our history because of floods and tornadoes and more floods and more tornadoes. But these are our neighbors. These are welders and CPAs. These are people who have to leave their families that are sent somewhere else indefinitely and who don't have the law enforcement training that law enforcement does.

[Liz Oyer]

That's exactly right. And, you know, they have actual jobs. They have families. As you noted, they have other things to be doing. They don't need to be standing around Washington, D.C. carrying people's groceries. You know, we see the reports weekly about how much trash the National Guard has picked up in Washington, D.C. and that's great, but we don't need people with military training, people with rifles picking up trash in our city. It's just not a good use of their resources or their time. And really, the National Guard folks that I have run into in D.C. have been very friendly, very nice, but they just don't need to be here.

[Andy Beshear]

Tell us your thoughts on the Supreme Court and how much faith you have or don't have that they're going to protect this democracy.

[Liz Oyer]

You know, I started out with a good deal of faith that they were going to, and my faith is slipping, my faith is disappearing. They really seem to be allowing the president to do whatever he wants. And in many cases they have made decisions that in theory are just decisions to grant or not grant injunctions. They're not final decisions on the merits, but. But the amount of harm that is being done to our society while we're awaiting final decisions from the Supreme Court is really just. It's irreversible harm that's being done. It seems like the Supreme Court, at the end of the day, a majority of them seem to share this president's vision for our future, which is a society where wealthy, it's great to be white, it's great to be elite, and it's not so great for everybody else. And that unfortunately seems to be a vision that six justices on our Supreme Court are comfortable steering us toward for our future. And I don't at this moment have a lot of confidence that the Supreme Court is going to save our democracy. I think we're at the point where it's really up to us, the citizens, to build the society that we want, to protect our rights, to protect our democracy, and to strive for the type of society that we want, because all of the other institutions, institutional safeguards, seem to be failing us.

[Andy Beshear]

So as we, as we close out, you've been through a lot, you're speaking up, you've been subject of threats. How you holding up?

[Liz Oyer]

I'm doing okay, actually. I have found a new calling which is talking to my fellow citizens about what's going on on social media. There is a real desire among Americans who are not lawyers to understand, understand how our laws are supposed to work and to understand the legality of some of the things that this administration is doing. And I have found that I can continue to serve the public even though I'm no longer the public servant I once was working for our government by educating people on different social media platforms. So you can find me on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, all the platforms as lawyer, or just try trying to keep folks informed about the legal issues of most concern to our democracy.

[Andy Beshear]

Liz, thank you for standing up for your profession, for your country. Thank you and your family for your sacrifice. And thanks for being on the podcast.

[Liz Oyer]

Thank you, Governor. I really enjoyed the conversation.

[Nicki]

Hey, everyone, it's Nikki and Bri, and we're here to let you know that we have a podcast, the Nikki and Bri Show.

[Bri]

Yes. And we've got new episodes every Monday and Thursday. We're serving up real deal conversations that go beyond the camera. Think motherhood confessions, sisterhood vibes, boss business energy and TV life tea.

[Nicki]

Need a laugh? We got you craving inspo. We got inspiration and affirmations on deck. Want a little cry or a big. Heck yes. That's our jam. Whether we're breaking down pop culture, sharing, parenting wins or fails, unpacking personal growth, or just riffing on everyday chaos, nothing is off limits.

[Bri]

Plus, we welcome incredible guests, play our favorite games, and do what only sisters can. Keep it 100 while raising a glass together. So pop a bottle, hit play, and come hang with us. Listen to the Nikki and Bree show wherever you get your podcast.

[LifeLock Announcer]

It's cybersecurity awareness month and LifeLock is here with tips to help protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication, and report phishing scams. And for comprehensive identity protection, LifeLock is your best choice. LifeLock alerts you to suspicious uses of your personal information and also fixes identity theft, guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, stay safe, and stay protected with a 30 day free [e-mail] Specialoffer terms apply.

[Andy Beshear]

Now on the Andy Beshear podcast, the segment where people interrogate me, we call it Ask Andy. We've got our producer Breland Tilford, who's here with us today. What do you got for me? First question of the day is favorite kind of restaurant? I think Italian. I think it's Italian. There's just something in the atmosphere of an Italian restaurant that I really like. And you can choose pasta, pizza, or, you know, a meat which is hard to beat.

[Liz Oyer]

Okay, okay.

[Andy Beshear]

You have a favorite pasta food or Italian food? Ooh, I like pasta a lot, but a really good pizza is hard to beat. I'm with you on that. That's my go to. So does your family have a fall tradition you all love? I love Halloween. I've loved Halloween as a dad so much from being able to walk with friends. You walk kind of in the middle of the street and the kids go from one house to another to another and just seeing them run around in that pack, so excited. And then they, they come home and they sort out their candy. As my kids have gotten older, I've really enjoyed hosting different things for, for Halloween in my current job. We've got whole lots of people that have that have come by. And recently we've started dressing Winnie up each and every Halloween. She was a ballerina. Last year I was Ted Lasso. And this year it looks like we have Bumble Winnie. And what's your Halloween costume this year? We'll see. Okay, I may re up Ted Lasso. It was a pretty good one. Yeah. And that's a wrap on this episode of the Andy Beshear Podcast. Remember, you can listen to us on the Progress channel as well as download us on the Sirius XM app or anywhere you get your podcast. But we really would encourage you head over to YouTube at Andy Beshear Podcast, subscribe and even leave some comments. We want to hear from you. We want to adjust our podcast for you.

[Andy Cohen]

Hey, everyone, it's me, Andy Cohen. Buckle up because I have a podcast called Daddy Diaries where I take my listeners on an as it happened, recount of life as a daddy to two kids, dozens of housewives, and the occasional fella. Listen to the Daddy Diaries to hear about my high highs and low lows of parenting, housewives, drama, and so much more. Daddy Diaries available. You listen to podcasts.