← Andy Beshear Podcast
Andy Beshear Podcast
Episode 29: Governor Kathy Hochul and American Federation of Teachers President Randi Weingarten
00:50:00
This week, Andy sits down with New York's first woman Governor and Buffalo Bills fan, Kathy Hochul. 🗽 Governor Hochul's faith guides her to make good policy and to fight for the underdog. She talks about how many women sell themselves short and how she unexpectedly ended up in running for office – and winning. From town board to the top elected in the Empire State, she knows that the best kind of government is the kind that problem solves and works together to get the job done, for everyone.
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- [00:00]
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- [00:59]
Andy Beshear
Welcome to the Andy Beshear Podcast, a proud member of the SER XM Podcast Network. Today's episode has two incredible interviews. First, New York Governor Kathy Hochul. She's going to talk about the issues that she faces and her concerns for what's going on nationally. Then Randy Weingarten. She is the President of the American Federation of Teachers, more than a million members, and she's a new author that's going to tell you about her book how teachers are being attacked by this administration but are also the antidote, the strongest supporters of democracy. I'm looking forward to this one and I hope you enjoy it. This week on the Andy Beshear Podcast, we are on location at the Democratic Governors association event in Boston, Massachusetts and our guests is New York Governor Kathy Hochul. Kathy has been a pioneer of first in so many areas and we are excited to have her on the podcast. Welcome.
- [02:05]
Kathy Hochul
Thank you Andy. Delighted to be with you again.
- [02:07]
Andy Beshear
You in this position is historic for a number of reasons. First woman to ever serve as Governor of New York. It took what, about 240something years?
- [02:18]
Kathy Hochul
A little late. Yes, it took some time.
- [02:20]
Andy Beshear
For those that think we have full of quality in the United States, a couple hundred years is a long time to wait. But also the first from your region in a long time. Tell us about that.
- [02:32]
Kathy Hochul
Right. I'm from Buffalo and the last governor from Buffalo was Grover Cleveland in the 1880s. It's been a while. I think people recognize that because of population, the political power has been very concentrated in New York City and that's where the vast, vast majority of governors have emerged from. So as the first Buffalonian to be in the seat or even the first upstate person in over 100 years. It's interesting because I've likened the diversity of New York to being the governor of San Francisco and Texas at the same time. We really have that much diversity in opinion. So it's a little bit of an anomaly in that as well as the gender. But people seem to be getting used to it. You know, they know I'm going to be rooting for the Buffalo Bills when I walk into a meeting in New York City, which here in Boston, as you mentioned, it's kind of a rough morning for us, but it's all good. But I do believe that there's a lot of. I have a deep depth of understanding of the people who feel disaffected and on the sidelines, sort of the flyover parts of our state, because that's where I come from. And it's made me a stronger governor to understand that sense. But yeah, that's. It's a first in a long time.
- [03:49]
Andy Beshear
So we are recording this right after, sadly, your bills lost on a last second field goal to the Patriots and you're actually in town for in Boston at the moment. So I know you're a huge fan. I'm thinking about your path here and you go to Syracuse and you get involved in student government at Syracuse. Did you know then that this was something that you were interested in?
- [04:17]
Kathy Hochul
Never. And the fact that you point out that I'm the first woman women of my age did not think about running for office. It was such a rarity. Our job was to be the brains behind the men who ran for office. And I even started earlier in high school as a young intern for Democratic headquarters, had a chance to work with some brilliant people like Tim Russert working on Senator Moynihan's first race. So I go way back as just a 15, 16 year old who wasn't raised in a political family at all. My parents had nothing to do with politics, but I was raised as a social justice Catholic. And that meant our teachings, in order to live them, was to go out and do good for others. And I believe that politics was the vehicle to elect good people, to enforce and effectuate good policies. So I was hooked as a teenager after learning about government politics as an 8th grader in school. So that's where it started, was at sea, but never ever to run for office. It was just to be my goal when I was 13 was to become a top staffer to a US senator after I'd seen the Capitol. And I was in that position with Senator Moynihan in, in my mid to late 20s. So that was the end of my career goals in terms of what I had set out to do. So unfortunately, a lot of women are in that category. You don't set out for the highest rung on the ladder. And I want to change that with my story. I really, truly do. That's one of my objectives here, is to be not a model for girls and women, but also to say I sold myself short, not thinking I could run for office until I was in my mid-30s, when men a lot younger had the same desire to serve and never held themselves back. Women, unfortunately, historically held themselves back. I see a lot more women running now. I love to see it, but going back to my story, it was not envisioned at all.
- [06:13]
Andy Beshear
So you then go to law school in D.C. and like me, big law wasn't for you after we tried it.
- [06:21]
Kathy Hochul
No, I gave it a fair shot. No, it wasn't out for me.
- [06:24]
Andy Beshear
So work a little while in D.C. and then head back to New York where you get involved in local. Local politics, I believe.
- [06:31]
Kathy Hochul
City council, town board, we called it there. It's again, this is something I didn't expect to do, but after serving as an attorney for Senator Moynihan and a member of Congress, I'm Capitol. I love those jobs, by the way. But I had to leave my job with Senator Moynihan because I couldn't find childcare. Washington was an expensive city. My husband was, you know, government lawyer as well. But we weren't raking in the big bucks and I realized I'd have to stay at home. And I was a stay at home mom during those early years and we had no income coming in. So we decided to raise our two children, who were very young at the time, near family in Buffalo and be able to let them have the same working class values that I grew up with that I didn't see a lot of on display in my circles in Washington. So I was glad I did that just to kind of ground my children and let them grow up in an environment that I thought was very conducive to me. To spread your wings. Safety was not an issue. The public schools were just fine. It was a good experience. But I started being this individual who was not happy with what even my town was doing. Why are we letting a giant Walmart go there and displace people over here? And just some of the zoning decisions and local issues. So I started going to town board meetings with regularity. I was there more often than some of the members you were that signed.
- [07:51]
Andy Beshear
Up Speaker Every time I was that.
- [07:53]
Kathy Hochul
Person and I was the one who'd get petitions signed and try to. My mom started a small business. It was a tough time in Buffalo, in the suburbs because the largest employer, Bethlehem Steel, had closed up shop and with it took 20, 25,000 jobs. My dad had worked at the steel plant earlier, my grandfather had worked there. That was the bread and butter of our community, was the steel jobs. And when they were gone, our little downtowns were just collapsing and my mom decided to start a flower shop at a time when all the other businesses were saying going out of business and foreclosure sale. It was a rough time and I got involved with my mom and her business and formed a coalition of other businesses to try and help them from going under. And that also drove me to town board meetings to say, what are we doing for the business community? How can we help these small mom and pops that are struggling? So all those forces pushed me to attending meetings and there was an opening that occurred and I'll tell you, I was not going to run for it. But there was a 22 year old young man just out of college, still living at home with his parents, did not have a job yet. He gets talked into running for the town board and runs. And I thought, okay, I'm 35, I've worked on Capitol Hill, I'm a lawyer, I've been in politics since, for 20 years and I go to meetings, I know I understand the politics and the government. So that was my aha moment when I said, you know what, he thinks he can do it, I should be able to have the confidence to do it myself. And as it turned out, there were two openings. We both ran, we both won. And he has become one of my best friends. Even though he's the same age as my baby brother and his confidence in himself was well placed, he's now the head of about a billion dollar health care organization. So that's another lesson for women. Where are the 22 year old young women who have the confidence to say, I don't have a lot of life experiences, but I want to make a change and I care about my community. And that's what I find exciting today is more people getting involved. And I believe in a strong resume. But also it is not a prerequisite to public service. There's many ways to serve.
- [09:58]
Andy Beshear
When you look back on your career now serving as governor, how important was the hyper local job? You gotta think when you're on that board, you gotta take the pad to the grocery store because People know who you are, where you live, and their trash isn't getting picked up.
- [10:19]
Kathy Hochul
You are so right about that. I used to have town board meetings until 11 and 12 at night, and we'd be working on the budget till one in the morning. Then I'd have to get the groceries because my kids still needed milk for their cereal for breakfast a few hours later. So I'd stop at the grocery store next door and invariably somebody grabbed me. It's like your snowplow hit my mailbox. Kokol, when are you gonna fix it? I have a flooding in my basement. What are you gonna do? Well, let me go home and get my plunger. I don't know what to tell you. So you really are steeped in this. And Andy, I use this every day of the week where I draw on my local experiences and support my local governments. It's not a. It used to be. We always felt like we were fighting with our state capitol, Albany, always fighting them and taking away money and not helping us. And I give out so much support to our localities because I know that's where the rubber meets the road. That's where you can make decisions that directly affect people's lives without a lot of drama. You don't have to. It's not a bill that has to get through Congress. It doesn't have to get through a legislature. You can just help people have a better life and make the communities safer and more vibrant just with a couple of people working together. So I use that experience when I'm looking at every bit of legislation that comes before me. Is this good or bad for localities? Is it good or bad for business? And so I put it through that pressure test that's in my mind, embedded in me, that I'm still really come at it as a local government official's mindset, and that's been really productive.
- [11:48]
Andy Beshear
I learned early on as governor that the answer is never the federal government does that or the local government does that. You're the governor, and so you say, let us take a look. And you pick up that phone and call whoever is responsible and then try to get that best result.
- [12:04]
Kathy Hochul
Your job is to be a problem solver. They don't care who does it, just solve the problem. So you're absolutely right.
- [12:10]
Andy Beshear
This is the Andy Beshear podcast. We're having a conversation with New York Governor Kathy Hochul talking about your career, and we just talked about the most hyper local job. But then you take on a job that I actually think is great training for a job like Governor, you were what we would call a county clerk. And that's where you got to get things done. You got to issue the license plates, you've got to issue the driver's licenses. And that can be a tough retail business.
- [12:41]
Kathy Hochul
It can be. And certainly DMVs across the country have a very negative reputation. And I went into the job, I ran seven auto bureaus. I was also responsible for all the land records and the court filings and everything. So, you know, I had a big office in county government. And take it just the DMV level. I went in and approached it as if I was walking into a business. And I said, if people are standing, senior citizens, moms with little kids, let's have some seating for them. So I went out and had everybody, I sat on the benches, make sure they were soft. I wanted soft padded cushions for everybody to sit in, nice comfortable chairs. So I cleared out the waiting room, put in chairs. I wanted to give people their time back. And so I had a clock that showed how long transactions were taking and how you take a number instead of just waiting in a line. You could walk away and go to lunch if you knew you weren't going to be seen for an hour. Or you just say, I'll come back tomorrow. And I saw. So there was a Walmart greeter at the door to see what you needed. I put a greeter at the door with a clip pad. If you don't have every document you need before you walk in here, go home and get it so you don't get told after an hour of waiting, you're missing something. I brought in a children's play area because I had little kids. I knew what it was like toys over here. I even brought magazines from my house so that people would sit there like a doctor's office. Because I was trying to think why people don't complain so much about long waits in a doctor's office. Because no one has thought about the experience as being better for the customer in our jobs. And I finally did when I ran for election and won almost 80% of the vote, everybody said, because I changed the DMV. So I take that lesson to state government as well. If you treat people as if they're your customers and try to give them the best service, it's a totally different way of looking at what we do, but it lets them know that they matter. And they pay our salaries. We're very aware of that. They pay for these services, and we want to be. I used to tell my staff people's Exposure to government. Usually you're paying their taxes or going to DMV1. I can't help. It's a negative experience. But if they walk out of here and had a good experience, I literally hand out customer comment cards to rate your experience. I read them every night. Sometimes it's a huge stack. And if someone had a bad experience, I called them and gave them my personal sell and said, this will never happen to you again. And so I even had people who are name tags because I realized people feel very anonymous if they're not real friendly to my customers, who's going to know who they are? So those are just a whole series of reforms I put in. And I was rewarded politically for that, which is interesting. That wasn't the original goal, but people recognize that, hey, things are different now. We have someone in charge who gets it.
- [15:25]
Andy Beshear
The other thing from your time there that I think people really noticed and I certainly appreciate and wish we would see a little bit more of in D.C. right now, is you put your people over your party, and there were times where you would have a Democratic governor that would try to pass different legislation or make changes that you'd oppose because you didn't think it was right for the people you served.
- [15:49]
Kathy Hochul
Or my community would not agree with certain policies. And so I stood up. You know, it's hard because, you know, you want to be a team player, but also have to be willing to call out the quarterback or the coach and sometimes just like, say, I'm not sure about this one. And that's what we did. We had to stand up for a number of times. And I think I got a reputation as being more independent and not just following the crowd in that space. And so that benefited me when I took the long shot of running for Congress in a seat that came up unexpectedly, a special election that was the most Republican district in the state of New York. Seven counties. I was known well in one, the one Democratic county. And I had no chance of winning that seat, but I went for it anyhow, because I just decided, if not now, when, which I strongly believe in that philosophy. This is the moment that is before me. Take it or you'll not have this opportunity again. But those experiences of being able to stand up when I needed to also was known by the Republicans in that district who were willing to give me a chance when I won that seat.
- [16:54]
Andy Beshear
So compare being in Congress during the period you were to what you're seeing right now, because I see Democrats in Congress trying being a voice, not always being a unified voice but you're supposed to represent your district first. What I see right now on the Republican side are people who were successful individuals just showing blind allegiance and almost following policies that they know aren't right, especially for their people.
- [17:29]
Kathy Hochul
That's what's so disturbing, Andy, is that I did not see that in Congress, just Even back in 2011, 2012, when I was there. And the big fights really were over the Affordable Care Act. It had just gone into law in 2010. My election was February of 2011. So I was the, you know, the kind of canary in the mine talking about if I. If I won my seat, and I was saying, I support it, that was a good sign for Democrats. I won that seat. So when I got there, people were celebrating the fact that I was pro Vordal Care act and she won a seat in a Republican district. So that, you know, in fact, Bill Clinton referenced that in a book. He just wrote that this was sort of the messaging we should follow. What happened that was right. The Tea Party was just ascending into power there. But I miss those days, which I never thought I'd say compared to the blind allegiance as you describe it today.
- [18:21]
Andy Beshear
Oh, I think we all miss those days.
- [18:22]
Kathy Hochul
And I had to take some tough votes sometimes, but people understood you represent your district as well. And I had a chance to save my seat because I was being redistricted the next year to being even more Republican, if you can believe that. My timing was not good. And I had 43 times where I could have voted to repeal the Affordable Care Act. And. And if I'd done it even once, I probably would still have stayed in Congress. But I couldn't do it because I knew that district, it was a lot of rural poor. I mean, part of it is technically Appalachia. And this is the area that people don't see. They just think of New York as New York City. And I knew that there's people, moms who needed to have their child with leukemia have their preexisting conditions covered, as one mom hugged me at a fair and thanked me for saving her child's life. When I voted for the Affordable Care Act, I knew that there were people who did not even like the sound of it because they were listening to Fox News and they told them that's the worst thing was this Affordable Care act, and it's something they needed. So I stood up for it. I did lose my seat the next year, likely on those votes, but I lost by one and a half percent. And that showed in that Republican district that people A lot of people still supported what I did, but not enough. And it was an opportunity for a reset for me. I was crushed. I'll be honest with you. It was the highest honor of my life. I thought at the time was to be able to walk into that beautiful domed building by day and walk out at night and turn around and look at it. Am I really here? My family started in a trailer park. Dad at the steel plant. I mean, this was not something that was going to happen in my career trajectory based on where I started. And so it was a hard, hard loss. But I didn't know someone said, God has another plan. God had another plan.
- [20:10]
Andy Beshear
You're listening to the Andy Beshear Podcast. We're talking health care with New York's Governor Kathy Hochul. That Affordable Care act was game changing in Kentucky. With that and the expansion of Medicaid, we saw about 600,000 people get health care coverage for the first time. I can't tell you how many times had that experience either when my dad was governor who did that expansion, or now where someone tells you they wouldn't be alive but for it. Sadly, we've just seen with the big ugly bill, the largest cut to Medicaid, and it'll really hit Medicaid expansion since the Affordable Care act. And overall, in my lifetime and now, at least as of the time that we're filming this, a refusal on the Republican side to extend those ACA tax credits. Talk. Talk about the impact that's going to have in New York, because I think in their minds, people understand it's going to hit rural America really hard. But a whole lot of New York is rural America.
- [21:09]
Kathy Hochul
It truly is, really. People will be shocked to know how much farmland we have. You know, we're the top, top three producers of so many commodities and goods and apples and maple syrup or big farmland. And the land mass of our state is vastly rural areas, or some areas are suburban. So it's going to have that hit. And we have areas of rural poverty which are so extreme, but also people that don't qualify for the free health care. They're just above the margins who feel like they're squeezed, like, I don't qualify. I've been working hard, and as a result, I don't qualify for this.
- [21:49]
Andy Beshear
I.
- [21:49]
Kathy Hochul
And those subsidies allowed them to have the dignity to cover this. And a family that has $88,000 in income, which in some parts of our state may be double the median income. I mean, that's the poverty levels in my state that could be double in some parts, those individuals right now are paying $8,000 a year for health insurance with the subsidies. When the subsidies are gone, their costs will go to $24,000 a year. How can they possibly survive? They can't. And so this is what Republicans are doing, thinking that the people they represent in these rural areas, these are all my Republican areas in Congress. They think they're not going to notice that when hospitals have to close down because they're swamped and can't afford the cost of people who will walk in the door without insurance, rural hospitals will close. And guess what? It's not just the people on Medicaid who will lose service. It's everybody. It's the woman who want to deliver a baby without having to drive two hours to a hospital or your teenager's in a car accident. You want to get them to a closed hospital. That is going to change. And we see it. Republicans are trying to close their eyes to it, but the public has to understand why this fight matters. And we want government to function and to be opening. We're not just shutting it down, but this is the only leverage we have. Others are saying, go negotiate outside this budget opportunity. When Republicans control the White House, the House and the Senate, this is all you've got. And you've got to use the power you have at this moment in history.
- [23:26]
Andy Beshear
So we're all, as especially Democratic governors, navigating this presidential administration and its challenges from the worst economic policy of my lifetime, which is this tariff policy that continually changes to the big ugly bill, to politicizing everything, even creating an us versus them when it comes to murder. But he is especially fixated on New York and New York City. So how do you approach and handle that as a governor that wants to deliver results but can't let anybody, even a president, roll over you?
- [24:06]
Kathy Hochul
That's exactly right. And the president is seeing that we're willing to stand up. As recently as just this past week, they literally cut $187 million in Homeland Security funds that stops terrorists from being able to attack our city. Since 9 11. This money goes to our fire departments, our NYPD.
- [24:28]
Andy Beshear
I lost a friend, classmate in 9 11. And the idea that we're not still putting in the dollars to prevent the.
- [24:34]
Kathy Hochul
Next one and it's the federal government doing it. So I literally called the president and said, Mr. President, I don't know if you were aware of this, but you will be defunding the police. I know you support the police, but in this action, you have defunded them in New York and asked him to restore it. He did restore it after a couple of days. So that was after we made a big issue about it and there was a lot of publicity. There are times when we're able to get him to change up position. Other times remain to be seen. You know, we do not want the National Guard deployed to New York City. We have the lowest crime rate in many categories in 30 years. In our subway, which everyone's claiming is the most dangerous place on Earth, we had the lowest crime rates in recorded history this summer. Recorded history. So, yes, there are occasionally frightening stories that happen on the front page. It's a population of 8.3 million people. Something happens, but it's a much safer place than it had been and they don't want to acknowledge that because it doesn't suit their purposes. So that's just one area where I've had to stand up and successful then and trying to keep the National Guard out and even the Statue of Liberty. I did an event there the day of the shutdown with the Statue of Liberty in the background. I said, you know, he's going to let this torch extinguish. You know, this message that sends a message, you know, this symbol that sends a message around the world that we are a welcoming place. You know, it's a federal park. It'll shut down because of the shutdown that he could have stopped. So we're working hard on this. There are times when I want to collaborate on some infrastructure and get things done. I said that to the President. But overall, Democrats have to stand up and defend our states and our nation. We'll be judged very harshly by history if we sit on the sidelines and let this happen. Because what is happening is absolutely unprecedented. No one could have possibly imagined that it could get this bad. And it has. And there's more to come. And next year's election in 2026, we have an opportunity to take back the House. I'm laser focused on this. A lot of Democratic governors are up for election too. I'll be helping my friends. I've got my own race. But I'll tell you, the best way to start stopping this hemorrhaging is to put in Democrats, at least in the House and the Senate, and create a firewall to stop the insanity that has been unfolded, unleashed on our.
- [26:58]
Andy Beshear
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- [27:27]
Indeed Advertiser
Hiring isn't just about finding someone willing to take the job. Count on Indeed sponsored Jobs to find the right person with the right background who can move the business forward. Stop struggling to get your job post even seen on other sites. Give your job the best chance to be seen with INDEED sponsored jobs. They boost your post for quality candidates so you can reach the exact people you want faster and it makes a big difference. According to INDEED data, sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed are 90% more likely to report a hire than non sponsored jobs. Plus with Indeed sponsored Jobs, you only pay for results. No monthly subscription, no long term contracts. Just a boost whenever you need to find quality talent Fast. Join the 1.6 million companies that sponsor their jobs with Indeed. Get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.com podcast country Kathy, thanks.
- [28:22]
Andy Beshear
For joining the podcast.
- [28:23]
Kathy Hochul
All right, thank you.
- [28:30]
Andy Beshear
On the Andy Beshear podcast, our next guest is Randy Weingarten. She is the head of the American Federation of Teachers, or aft, and she has a new book that's out. Randy, welcome to the podcast.
- [28:43]
Randy Weingarten
I'm so delighted to be with you, Governor. Thank you.
- [28:48]
Andy Beshear
Well, thanks for coming on. We've known each other for a while now and let me first thank you for your work that you did in Kentucky, helping us stand up for public education and preventing a massive defunding of public education.
- [29:05]
Randy Weingarten
I think what we did together, and frankly more what you did, what the parents, students, educators in Kentucky did because you saw every county in Kentucky voted, understood what this defunding was and voted against it, was that they under your leadership. But there's always been a very long, proud history of understanding in Kentucky that with public schools go our future and the investment in public schools and the investment in our communities really start with public schooling. And your leadership was really important there because it was able because you're so trusted, you were able to debunk all the misinformation. And I thought that that, you know, if you look at the November 2024 election, there's a lot of people in Kentucky that voted for Trump and there's a lot of people in Kentucky who have voted for you, and there's a lot of people in Kentucky that vote for our public schools and shame on us for not trying to understand how you unify that together in terms of a fight for a better life for people and who they believe is standing up for them. And they see public schools as standing up for them, and they see you as standing up for them. And for those of us who know better about Mr. Trump, we have to do a better job at actually making the contrast and making it clear what we need to do on a national level to stand up for people.
- [30:57]
Andy Beshear
That election 2024, Donald Trump won Kentucky by 30 points, but people voted for public education by 30 points. Even in the most partisan of times, people are willing to put public education first and make it. I don't want to call it a bipartisan issue. I think it needs to be a nonpartisan issue.
- [31:20]
Randy Weingarten
I completely agree. And I think that if we didn't, and part of why I wrote this book was to actually get back to first principles like that. But when you have the people who are advancing the voucher movement or essentially an anti pluralism movement or privatization movement or factional movement, to borrow James Madison's term about factions, what you see is that there's an intentionality on the other side. Because take a guy like Chris Ruffo, who was the one who made up that teachers teach CRT in public schools when most of them didn't even know what it was. I think you're right. This is a nonpartisan issue. This is actually non political issue. This is about a future issue. But what they do is they basically throw a lot of spaghetti on a wall. They see what sticks, what can divide people, and then they use it and they said it. I quote this guy in my book saying the way you get to privatization, he calls it universal vouchers. The way you get to that kind of privat is to have universal public school distrust. And that's part of the reason why it was so important that frankly, someone like you, who's so trusted by people in Kentucky, it was really important that it was you, it was teachers, it was students, it was parents saying, yeah, public schools are not perfect. We have to do more to make sure that we meet the needs of all children. But they are the best institution. We have to create a pathway for equal opportunity and knowledge and a pathway to career, to college, to life, to civics.
- [33:25]
Andy Beshear
Tell our listeners about AFT and how you advocate for educators.
- [33:30]
Randy Weingarten
Great. And let me. I'll do it with. This past week, the day that we taped this show, Superintendent from Appalachia, Casey Coffey and I have a op ed in Fox Digital about how we can ensure that all kids, particularly rural kids, New Lexington, Ohio, can get a great education. This school district has a 99% achieve graduation rate. It's very similar to what I've seen in so many of the districts in Kentucky. Part of what we do is we say, look, let's imagine the future and make it happen. So most people think about a Union as we're 1.8 million people, we represent. Everybody we represent makes a difference in the lives of somebody else. So it's teachers, higher ed, K12, pre K, bus drivers, paraprofessionals. But we're also now the second largest nurse union in the United States and with our union of public employees as well. So, you know, the nurses, the respiratory therapists, the doctors we represent, the teachers we represent. Everybody makes, you know, everybody works somewhere that helps people. And our mission is to actually make a better. Do whatever we can to fight for a better life for people, but to also improve the services that we do as much as we can. And we use collective bargaining, we use fighting for policy. We really believe that we have to be nation builders that and we have to be people who are helping our nation see its better days, particularly our kids. And in that also helping our own families have a better life. That's who the AFT is.
- [35:37]
Andy Beshear
For those watching on YouTube, we can see you holding your new book, why Fascists Fear Teachers, Public Education, and the Future of Democracy. I think you went for it in the title.
- [35:48]
Randy Weingarten
Well, I did two things, and you know me well.
- [35:52]
Andy Beshear
I do.
- [35:53]
Randy Weingarten
I, you know, it's my first book. It's probably going to be my only book. I don't know how you do all of this, like the podcast, the writing, all of this. It almost killed me to do my day job and to do this. But I felt like I had to do two things. I had to create a warning about what I started seeing was going on in the country. Look, I am a lawyer and a social studies teacher by practice and by love. And the second is I was watching a very different kind of smearing that was happening with public school teachers. I saw it in terms of myself when Mike Pompeo, the former Secretary of State and CIA director, calls me the most dangerous person in the world and then says in the second sentence, and the teachers I represent teach smut or filth. It was a very different kind of demagogy. And so I really wanted to explore why and also to fight back on behalf of the millions of teachers, both past, present and future, who essentially do everything they can to make a difference in the lives of children. And instead of them being smeared, I thought it was important to actually figure out why someone or fictive behavior is such that they see what teachers do as completely antithetical to that system of government. Authoritarianism, tyranny, dictatorship, fascism. And why teachers can actually be the antidote, can actually be the ones who not only undermine fascism, but create the habits of democracy and the habits of hope that our kids and our families really need. So the book is kind of a bookend about the warning and the antidote. And I think given the last few weeks, I think the warning was right. I mean, when I wrote it, it was a warning. When I wrote it, I had just watched General Kelly and General Milley use the term fascism, and people thought it was political. And these two guys are not progressives. I mean, they're military guys who understood what fascistic governments were and how they undermined and dehumanized people and how they were tyrannical and they hurt and they were the antithetical to democracy. But I also really, really wanted to talk about individual teachers and what their efforts, herculean efforts, are to help really make a difference in the lives of kids. So the warning and the antidote, and that's the 180 pages of this book.
- [39:05]
Andy Beshear
The part of the excerpt that I've had a chance to read that really struck me is the healthiest. Democracy is the most educated.
- [39:15]
Randy Weingarten
Yes. And in fact, if you think about it, and look, you are a historian like I am, you understand history in so many ways. I so admire you. Think about the framers. Think about Madison, Franklin, Washington, Jefferson. Okay, so they were not perfect. Slavery was a huge stain on our country. But think about. They understood that education was the bulwark against tyranny, that if we were going to have no kings, I mean, if we were going to fight against a monarchy, then that meant people had to be educated. They had to not just be educated in terms of memorization. They had to be able to discern. And yes, of course, they were mostly talking about, you know, white men at the time, but they had to be able to discern fact from fiction. They had to engage in critical thinking and problem solving. And as we go through history, think about the giants in the civil rights movement, Martin Luther King. Think about the president who engaged in the war on poverty, the president who signed the civil rights laws, Lyndon Johnson. He started as a teacher understanding that education became absolutely imperative for young people to have agency and to be able to compete in a democracy or in a capitalist economy.
- [40:55]
Andy Beshear
We're Talking about education. And I think some people in their mind will hear school and then college. But I've seen firsthand your leadership on how education is changing and how we need it to be structured so that there is a path for everyone.
- [41:14]
Randy Weingarten
Exactly. I'm so grateful that you raised that. And this is one of the reasons that the day we were taping it, fox not normally my friend put not.
- [41:28]
Andy Beshear
Normally my friend either.
- [41:30]
Randy Weingarten
And they asked, they asked for an op ed and I wanted to write an op ed about care and career because look, a lot of kids go to college and college is a great equalizer in this country. Our college system in America is still, still, even though Donald Trump is trying to change it, the envy of the world. But 40% of kids right now, even after years of so many of us saying college, college, college, college, 40% don't go to college. And a lot of kids, if you talk to them will say I want to have other opportunities, I want to work with my hands. I want to have a way of seeing a different way of life. What about the trades? What about culinary? What about health care? There are 4 million jobs in health care in the next few years. What about coding? What about welding? What about advanced manufacturing? So what we are trying to do is say when we have kids attention, which is essentially junior high school and high school, let's try to create career paths and pathways that marry kids passion and purpose and lots of kids. I remember doing debate and I taught AP Gov and loved my kids doing debate. But extracurricular activities, these career pathways, engaging kids. I have four words that I think really are the basis of how we should be thinking about education, public education in particular, safe and welcoming classrooms to campuses where we are teaching an engaging and relevant curriculum so that we're competing with the cell phones, we're competing with social media and we and where kids actually feel like they want to go to school. And then we're doing project based instruction in a way that kids start solving their own problems, kids start working with each other, kids be able to communicate. I mean in a world of AI it is really advanced thinking, discernment of fact from fiction, being able to problem solve and which is how we're going to prepare kids for the future. It's not memorization. And so that's why those four words, safe and welcoming, engaging and relevant. I think that's the pathway to the future.
- [44:25]
Andy Beshear
I'm glad you mentioned AI because I think a lot of people have thought that AI is going to wipe out blue collar jobs. I actually think it's going to eliminate more white collar jobs. And so the importance of having a skill moving into the future, I think it's now more important than ever.
- [44:43]
Randy Weingarten
I completely agree. I think that for anyone who has. And look, I think we have an AI economic bubble that is masking a whole lot of pain in the economy. Yes, Grocery prices have not gone down. We're about to have. If the Democrats don't win this debate, we're about to have a huge hike for 25 million people in their premiums in health care, if they actually even have health care. And that's going to have a knock on effect on health care. The $1 trillion of cuts in Medicaid is going to have a knock on effect in terms of the cost of health care. So you have for most people a fairly sober situation economically. And yet you see Wall street, the market doesn't seem to have a height that it's not going to exceed. And you see this AI bubble. So I am very, very concerned about it from an economic standpoint, but from a human being standpoint and from what this country looks like or the world looks like, I agree with you. What if you look at ChatGPT or Copilot or all of this, what generative AI is doing is actually being able to research quickly, to put together a draft quickly. It is what we used to think of as entry level jobs. It is what we used to think of as how we start a process of white collar work, whether it's lawyering, whether it's doctoring, you know, because it's putting together and aggregating so much information very quickly. But what it's not doing is not. It cannot, and I will be one of the people who fight against it, attempting to. It cannot substitute for the human being. The human being has to run a classroom, a business. The human being has to run society, not the machine. But we need to actually figure out, and that's why AFT has been working. We announced an AI institute which has been funded by Microsoft and OpenAI and Microsoft is our lead partner, Andropic. But we are trying to race to get the tools in the hands of teachers so that they are comfortable with using AI, not just whether or not they use it in the classroom, using AI. And also, particularly since we have failed to get national guidelines, AI starting to go the route of social media, which is basically the companies have all the rights and people are not protected in terms of privacy, security, data or any of the guardrails that we need against misinformation, disinformation, and deep fakes. So we're in the middle of all these different issues around AI, what the future looks like, how to help educate our members about it, but also how to fight for the guardrails to make sure that the human beings are in charge and that kids are protected from data breaches or from an invasion of privacy. Kids and families and teachers, give our.
- [48:26]
Andy Beshear
Listeners one more plug for the book and let them know where they can purchase it.
- [48:30]
Randy Weingarten
This book talks about and is about what we in education do to help heal a nation, to help see our future, to help seize that future. But it's also a warning of what happens if we do not actually support public schools, support teaching and learning, support pluralism and support the idea of critical thinking and problem solving. That is why I wrote this book and you can purchase it at any bookstore, independent bookstores, Barnes and Nobles, Amazon. The book is hopefully everywhere and if you don't see it, tell them about it and they will order it for you.
- [49:12]
Andy Beshear
Thanks for being on the podcast.
- [49:14]
Randy Weingarten
Thank you. Really appreciate you.
- [49:22]
Andy Beshear
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- [50:45]
Andy Beshear
The Andy Beshear Podcast, the segment we call in my Kentucky accent. And this week I'm thinking about the weaponization of the federal government. I'll admit I thought this was an overused term during the campaign and even during the first several months of the Trump presidency. But now we see it as very real and very troubling. First look at what's going on in the Department of Justice. This is supposed to be an independent, professional branch of the federal government. Why? Because in the United States, you don't get to jail your political opponents. A president doesn't get to order the prosecution of individuals he or she do not like. Yet we are seeing that for the first time in my lifetime going on right now. We're seeing professional prosecutors saying, no, Mr. President, we don't take orders from you, and there is not enough evidence to go after people you dislike. And then we're seeing a president fire them or force them to retire. And then even published statements on social media saying, the next one must prosecute this individual. And they are. And now he's talking about using the IRS to specifically create an investigative unit to go after people who support a different party, to go after large Democratic donors or organizations, and to call them terrorists simply because he disagrees with them. This weaponization is not who we are as Americans. We're supposed to be different parties that battle it out in elections, but then try to serve all the people of the United States. And we are not a country that jails or prosecutes people simply because they have different political opinions. If we don't push back on that, if the courts don't say, no, you can't do that, Mr. President, then this country will be in a very different and a very troubling place. So our judiciary, it's time to step up to members of Congress on the Republican side, it's time to do your job. You have pledged to support this country and our Constitution, and it needs you now more than ever. Me, I'm going to keep doing my part. I've joined different briefs pushing back against the use of National Guard in states that don't want them there. This federal government needs to take a breath, say, we are a part of the history of this country. It's our job to preserve the things that have made it so amazing. One of the freest places to call home. You don't want to be the administration that gave it all away, that broke the dream that is America. So rethink it. Maybe go to church, change your ways, and let's try to move forward together. Let's stop this weaponization of the federal government.