← Andy Beshear Podcast
Andy Beshear Podcast
Episode 30: Jen Psaki
00:50:02
Welcome to Episode 30 of the Andy Beshear Podcast! 🎂 This week, we’re unpacking a whirlwind of headlines and heart — from the White House to working families.
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Welcome to the Andy Beshear podcast, episode 30. That's right, we've made it 30 episodes in and we're not stopping anytime soon. We're a proud member of the Sirius XM Podcast network and we hope that you'll not only download us on any of the major platforms but but you'll also subscribe to our YouTube channel @andy Beshear Podcast Today we've got a really special 30th episode. We've got Jen Psaki, a leading voice on MSNBC who so much of the world turns to to not just get news, but analysis. She's going to talk about both her career, a little bit about her family, but also about the current administration and how what it's like for her to have gone from speaking for the president and for the United States of America to now see how that's treated by the current bunch. Then we have Everett Kelly. He is the head of the largest union of federal employees and he's going to talk about how this government shutdown is hurting the people that he represents. Folks that might not live paycheck to paycheck, but like most of America, really struggle if they miss even one of those paychecks. We'll have a conversation with the Johns. It's going to be a great episode and we hope, as always, that this makes you feel a little bit lighter when we're done, a little bit more prepared to face the week ahead. I know the news is absolutely crazy right now, but we'll get through it. We'll get through it together. And now let's start the episode. Our guest this week on the Andy Beshear Podcast is Jen Psaki. Jen served as the White House press secretary for Joe Biden and now is the host of the Briefing with Jen Psaki, airing weeknights Tuesday through Friday at 9:00pm Eastern Time on MSNBC. Welcome to the podcast.
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C
Thank you for having me. I absolutely love that people like you are doing podcasts. You have a lot on your plate. But this is such a. A powerful way to reach out to people who may not be paying attention to everything else.
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B
Well, the idea, and you have one too, is that chance to just communicate directly to people. And certainly in my position, you don't always get that opportunity. How have you enjoyed podcasting?
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C
I love it. I find it to be such a great way to have a conversation that you couldn't even necessarily have on television, because on television you people are talking in your ear and saying three minutes, two minutes. You have to go to a commercial break. And with the podcast, it's much more casual, relaxed. I think people talk how they normally talk and that's not always how it happens on television. And so I've really, really enjoyed the conversations and I think they're in some ways a lot more enlightening.
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B
I've gotten to see the filming of shows like yours firsthand and I think what most people might not know is oftentimes it's just you in the room, maybe a couple of crew members. But tell me what it's like to try to connect with an audience in an era of zoom.
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C
Oof. I. So I'm a people person. I love being around people and having the conversations with them. And I think you can read people's reactions or their emotions or whatever. It may be so much better in person. And it has been a real adjustment to, as you said, talking. Sometimes you're just talking to one big black box. Sometimes you're in a room just with the black box. And you're kind of, you're of course, interviewing people like yourself or others, prominent officials or other people who are just in the middle of the story. But you really have to try to read people through the camera, and that's much harder. And remember, I try to think about who I'm talking to and I often think about my text chain of my friends from college who are informed and educated but are not consuming everything that happens in every subcommittee in Washington. Right. They live all over the country and what do they want to know about? What kind of questions do they want to know? Because it's not always the minutia. Minutiae is important, but it's not always the minutiae or the language that issues are discussed through in Washington.
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B
So you served as the White House press secretary, which has got to be one of the most forward facing jobs where the entire world hears from you and sees you. You are the voice of the most powerful person in the world. What's it like to walk out up to that Podium with the seal on it, and then have to not only speak for the president, but answer any question anyone on earth could ask for any purpose.
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C
I'm so glad I'm not in that job now, because that really sets up the pressure campaign. What I loved about the job so much was, I mean, it's a huge honor, of course, to speak on behalf of the United States and speak on behalf of a president. But it's also a daily test. Can you explain this issue or this problem in a way that is human speak and not garbly gook talking points? Not that all talking points are garbly gook, but I think you know what I mean. You have to really understand the issues in order to answer the 19th question and in order to be able to speak in a way that hopefully people, maybe they're tuning into one clip or maybe they see one portion. But the best days are when you feel like you have provided information to the world. Every day is not like that. And then in terms of the pressure, Val, it's funny coming from you, somebody asking that question, because I think it's much more pressure to run for office at any level, and certainly your level. But I used to. I don't know if. Are you a Ted Lasso fan?
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B
Oh, I am.
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C
At all. Okay.
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B
I dressed as Ted Lasso for Halloween last year. I even wore it to my last press conference before Halloween.
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C
I should know this. You feel like a Ted Lasso fan to me. So. And I say that in a complimentary way. But in the first season of Ted Lasso, the Rebecca. Rebecca. Am I getting her name right? I haven't seen the show in so long. Who is, of course, this amazing character on the show. She is one of the only women who is an owner of a football team or soccer team, of course, in the league. And she does this kind of power move where she puts her arms up and sort of makes herself taller before she goes into the meeting. And I used to do that sometimes before I'd walk into the briefing room. It was, of course, yeah, a reference to Ted Lasso. And she's such a phenomenal character. But just a way to remind yourself, okay, I got this. I got this. And some days you didn't have it because you just. Sometimes the questions from reporters are farther ahead than where the policymaking is, which isn't their fault. But those days, sometimes you don't have as much level of detail as they may have wanted.
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B
I would play music right before I walked out, like you were going to have your walkout music to pump yourself up.
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C
What songs, what songs would you play?
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B
All different songs. And, you know, I'm not sure that anybody would respect me if they knew how far my musical tastes can go from one side to another. So I just got back from London and I was fascinated because Parliament operates off asking questions, questions to ministers, questions to the prime minister. And in many ways their question time seems so much like what the White House press secretary does instead of the president. Did you ever feel like there was a correlation between whether or not you could answer a question and how much people thought the administration understood certain challenges or were on top of them?
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C
Yes. And there were days where sometimes I was on the front line of coming back and saying, that does not work to say that. Right. Because. And there were times, and you might appreciate this example given your current role and your longtime role in Kentucky. I remember when there were, remember in 2021 when there were, of course, mass school closures across the country. And the questions which were very understandable coming from across the country from people, but also from journalists, was what is the plan to reopen schools to get kids back to learning? And there are mixed views now from all sorts of people about whether that was done quickly enough or what have you. But at the time the question was, what is the goal and how are you all going to define when you have met that goal? We discussed this question in our mornings meetings and I said, this is something people are really interested in. They're going to ask me about. The answer people came up with was, when we have school open, I think it was something like one day a week. Right, one day a week. But we will see that as a success. And as soon as it came out of my mouth, as the mother of two elementary school students, I was thinking, that is a terrible answer. You know, I mean, the challenge internally was we didn't know how long it would take. We didn't know what was going to be needed for ventilation and testing and keeping teachers safe. It was a challenging policy question. It was just a terrible public answer and it wasn't satisfying the need at the time.
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B
We also didn't know how effective the vaccine was going to be fully in practice.
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C
Yep, yep, exactly. Exactly.
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B
So if you could go back in time and you would tell your 12 year old self that you were going to be press secretary for the President of the United states, would your 12 year old self say, of course I'm going to be, or run screaming?
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C
They wouldn't. My 12 year old self wouldn't have run screaming. But they would have been shocked. I guess I wasn't involved in politics really until I graduated from college. And the first time I ever went to the White House ever was after Barack Obama won the election. And Bill Burton, who was a colleague of mine at the time, and I went and visited the White House. George W. Bush was president. Dana Perino was the press secretary. I think I've told her this story since then, where we went up to the gates of the White House and. And we kind of knocked on. It felt a little bit like being at the Emerald City in the wizard of Oz, right? You knock and you say, we're here. Will you let us in? And that was the first time I ever went inside. And I realized most people have never been inside, but I'd never been in there. And I was gonna start working there in a couple of weeks in the building. So I would have been surprised. I will say that having worked for two presidents and spent a lot of years in that building, I never really lost the awe of it. And I think someone said to me once, my first year, maybe if you lose the awe of looking up at the building and recognizing what you're a part of, it's probably time for you to leave. Not in a burn the building down kind of way, but in a just go do something else way. And I never really lost the awe I had for the building and the institution of it and the history, I guess.
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B
So twice now you've talked about it being an honor to speak for the United States and the honor of working in the building. And I think your predecessor under President George W. Bush at least acted the same way. How does it make you feel to see a current White House press secretary answer a serious question? I think today or yesterday with your.
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C
Mom sad, you know, And I say that. And there's plenty of things I disagree with from the Bush administration and from prior administrations that I didn't serve in. But there's still. I still have a respect for a number of the people who have served in those jobs. And the room. It's not just that. It's not just the. Your mom response, which I just. I don't. You have funny moments in that room. So I don't know if that's the biggest hill I'm going to die on, but what makes me sad about the room, about what's happening now in the press briefing room the most, is that it has always been a place through presidents of both parties, through crises in the country, through things being mishandled, through many different Presidents where reporters and, you know, experienced and dedicated reporters and journalists could come and ask tough questions. There are still some there, many there. But what has happened is the room has become more of a forum for propagandists in media. I don't even know if they're in media. I guess they are. Who are getting more and more of the questions, who are taking up more and more of the time in the briefing room, who are part of the pool at times. And I think that's a real shame because it's hard to differentiate if you're the public. And I only really know that because I've worked in that room before and spoken from that podium. But that's the saddest thing, the your mom moment. You know, you want to bang your head against the wall. But I think there are worse things than that probably happening in there.
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B
When you look at the media landscape, I imagine you think there's a big difference between MSNBC and Fox News. How do you compete or how do you try to deliver real news when you know your competitor not only has a slant but is engaged in that propaganda?
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C
You know what we think about. First of all, I don't know how their standards and legal departments work, but we have a pretty stringent one. I would say. We know from lawsuits they don't work the same way ours does. So we know that for sure. You know, I think the difference how I think about it is I am grateful that I never have to hide what my opinion is or my viewpoint is. And I think that can be additive to understanding what's happening in Washington or what's happening in politics or the campaign. It doesn't mean that people have to always agree with me. But I can add context. Kind of freak out about that. Don't freak out about that. This is how things actually are supposed to work. But I think the challenge is that it is so over there. It's so burned the house down and so driven by something. That's not what drives us. I think what drives me.
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B
Everybody's an enemy to them.
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C
Everybody is an enemy. That is. That is a good way of describing it and in a very personal way. And I don't think. I don't wake up in the morning and think, I want to destroy all of these people's reputations. I call things as I see them. But I do think it's a bit different. And I also think the conversations are different. I'm not trying to pretend that I am not for abortion rights. I am right. So that opinion is sharing my Opinion is different from what a lot of people in the media do. But I think it's still so different from what you see in PrimeTime over at Fox, which, yeah, it's hard to compete with because it is much more burn the building down in that sense.
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B
So I think you've touched on this. You worked in Democratic politics. You're open on your personal views and who you personally support. How do you balance that with the journalism side, with the show that's on just about every night?
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C
I read a lot. No, I think that's such a good question. I read a great deal from a lot of different outlets and a lot of different analysis and a lot of different takes on issues that are happening. And how I think about my job every night is how can I uniquely offer some insight into what the heck is happening here? Sometimes that's what's happening in Washington. It has been as of late, when it relates to the shutdown, which is of great interest to so many people out there across the country. Sometimes it's something that is happening on the campaign trail, but it is always based in fact, and it is always based in information that we can cite and sources that we are using as a point of reference. So I don't know if I think about it as how can I put good information out into the world and provide some understanding to people who are watching and trying to understand at times what feels like a scary and at times alarming and at times confusing world. I also think part of that is that it is injecting some hope, too, and injecting some sense of positivity. And sometimes that is candidates running, sometimes that's introducing people no one's heard of. Sometimes that is talking about an issue or a victory that doesn't have anything to do with a vote in Washington, D.C. it can be out in a community. So I think about that as being an important part of what we do as well.
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B
Right now, people feel like the news hits them really hard minute after minute, day after day. And one of the reasons we started this podcast was to help people process it. What would your recommendation be? I know that a network wants people to watch news all day long, but people are having some impacts on their mental health and we don't want people to check entirely out. So do you have an opinion on kind of what the right amount is to be able to be engaged, but to still be able to function with your family and in your life?
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C
I think part of it is finding community in person and finding community with your neighbors and people. You may sometimes you may disagree with, but also people you agree with. If the issue you care most deeply about is public education and public schools, find a community of people who also care about that. And don't just text with them, meet with them in person. Maybe you want to join a protest with them. That's perfect. That's great too. You know, I didn't, I didn't go to college in an age where social media platforms was a big part of how people communicated at all. Right. Thank goodness. But I think that's a challenge for people I see who are in their, who are teenagers who are in their 20s, where it becomes easier to engage in social relationships and community relationships in that way. I'm not saying it's all bad. I mean, some, some of what we kind of sometimes use on the, in the news can be videos that were posted on social media. Sometimes I learn about stories on social media, but it has become an excuse for people not to meet in person and engage in person. And I think that is true for things like 20 somethings who are dating. Thank God I'm not in that era, because that feels challenging. But I think it's also true in terms of activism and political engagement. It's not. Online is an amazing tool for fundraising and for organizing, but it's not the only tool. And I think for people who are feeling hopeless or they're feeling. They're not sure where to turn or what to do, finding a community of human beings to be with I think is a part of it.
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B
So one of the most important things that we talk about on the podcast is our why. Not just what we're doing, but why we do it. Tell us about your why in getting into political communications and now your show on msnbc.
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C
You know, my why for getting into political communications was that I wanted to be. And I didn't know this until I did my first campaign, which was 2002 for the Iowa Democratic Party. I was a hell of a door knocker, I will tell you. I was very good at door knocking. I enjoyed the conversations at the door. But my why after that was I wanted to be a part of something bigger than myself that had a goal of doing something good for the world. And there are lots of ways to do that. But for me, I was a swimmer in college. I love the competition of politics, so I loved that. But I also loved this feeling of, wow, we can achieve something that makes some people's lives better, whoever that may be. And back then it was about, gosh, I can't even Totally remember. But some of the similar issues, I mean, healthcare, affordability, they were issues back in 2002 as well. But it doesn't have to be about one thing. But that was what drove me to the why. And I loved. I worked in politics for 20 plus years because that remained a driver for me. I left and came back. I left and came back to political campaigns, to government, because being a part of something bigger and around people who were so mission driven was such a powerful existence for me. Transitioning to media. I think one of the things that drew me to media was I. My contribution to the. Making the world, or, I don't know, trying to help contribute to making people's lives better is explaining things. And I love explaining things. I love learning about an issue and trying to make it make sense for people. And I learned that from so many years as a communicator in politics. But when I was leaving, I thought to myself, what environment do I want to work in? I want to work with smart people who are mission driven, who are thinking about something bigger than themselves. And I know that media may sound to people as very different from government, and it is in a lot of ways. But what's similar is it's a bunch of curious, slightly nerdy or very nerdy people wandering around for. Looking for more information. Right. And I knew as soon as I'd been working at MSNBC and NBC for six months that I would just. I loved the environment. I loved the. The curiosity and the desire by people there to be a part of something bigger than themselves.
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B
So in addition to being a media superstar, you're also a mom.
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C
Yes. Thank you for that.
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B
So two questions on that. Number one, what is the go to family meal?
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C
Oh, boy.
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B
And number two, how do you talk to them about everything that's going on, especially with our government right now?
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C
Yeah. Well, first, the easy one. We love all sorts of food. My kids are fortunately, eat all sorts of things, but I. I'm not an amazing cook, but I make great chili, so. Chili. I know we don't do Cincinnati. Well, my husband is from Cincinnati, Ohio, so we do Cincinnati chili. But which if people don't know what that does.
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B
He put noodles in it.
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C
He does. No, he does Coneys. He does cheese. Coneys.
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D
Okay.
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C
So does my son.
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B
It's a big debate. Noodles or no noodles in chili. I'm no noodles. Please don't unsubscribe to the Andy Beshear podcast.
- [23:21]
C
That's key. Now we need to know Grater's ice cream. What Grater's ice cream is. I'm a raspberry Chipman chip girl. So chili is kind of one of the things that's a go to that my kids love. It's a perfect thing for a fall day or having friends over to watch football or just hang out or whatever it may be. So that's a go to in my house. Although my kids, fortunately eat all sorts of food. My daughter would eat probably spaghetti and meatballs every single day of her life, and my son might, too. How do I talk to my kids about what's happening in the world? I'm the daughter of a therapist, and so I. Yeah, and my college roommate was a therapist, too. I guess I'm surrounded by therapists, but they have always told me to kind of answer the questions they have. And I. It sounds very simple, but I've lived with that, that advice in this sense. If my kids ask me about who Trump is and why I'm a Democrat, which they have, I say, he is somebody that I don't agree with because I don't think that his policies are good for people in this country. And they say, what do you mean by that? And I say, well, I support other candidates. Or maybe it was Kamala Harris at the time when they were asking about it, because she cares about education and she cares about the environment and she cares about making sure that we're safe from gun violence. You know, I keep it. My kids are very smart, but I don't want it to make it scary for them, and I want to make it feel like it's based on policies and it's not personal, if that makes sense.
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B
As we close out, I want our listeners to know about your podcast when this episode of the Andy Beshear Podcast airs. I will have been a guest on it, but you've had Cory Booker, Tim Walls, secretary, former Mayor Pete. You have had some really heavy hitters. And then you were kind enough to invite me on, too.
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C
Well, you were kind enough to join me. And the reason I have a podcast called the Blueprint. We're in our second season, and the purpose of the podcast is really to have a space to have conversations about the future of the Democratic Party. Because I think right now, obviously, the Republicans are in control of the White House and the Senate and the House. And I don't think there's enough conversations about the debates that are very important, about the fights that are worth fighting and the language that is important to discuss issues through and what people should really care about and know about. And to me, it's an uplifting opportunity to really introduce people and help people get to know better. Current leaders, future leaders, and other people who are making things tick within the party.
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B
So people can download it on Spotify, Apple, wherever they get their podcasts.
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C
Exactly.
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B
Excellent, Jen. Thank you for joining the Andy Beshear Podcast.
- [26:17]
C
Thanks for having me.
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B
Our next guest on the Andy Beshear Podcast is Everett Kelly. He is the national president of the American Federation of Government Employees, which is the largest union representing federal and D.C. government employees. Thanks for being on the podcast.
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D
My honor, sir.
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B
Tell us a little bit about how you came to hold this job where you stand up for tens of thousands of Americans and push for a better life for each of them.
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D
Well, thank you for, first of all, for having me. And it goes back now. I am a former pastor in Alabama for 31 and a half years. And I truly feel that, you know, I was called to this work. I was pastoring for 31 and a half years and, you know, I got a call to do a different type of ministry. So I retired from the pulpit and came to an be the second in charge. And ultimately, you know, God has elevated me to be president of his son.
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B
As a, as a, as a pastor. But before we get to some of the others, was there a favorite Bible passage that you like to preach about? Because faith drives me. And these are some conversations that I think Democrats, but just Democrats and Republicans need to be having.
- [27:47]
D
I think that it is. And I just left a service here in Nashville, Tennessee, where I buried one of my long friends. And my comment was Matthew 20:25 and verses 38 to 40 calls all of us to minister, right, to make sure that we take care of those that's in need, make sure that we feed those that are hungry, you know, clothe those that are naked, you know. And so this is why my passion lies, okay? It's taking care of the people that's not able to take care of themselves.
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B
Tell our listeners about AFGE.
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D
AFGE is the American Federation of Government Employees representing over 800,000 federal and D.C. government workers. And we are there to make sure that, first of all, workers are treated with fairness and dignity on the job. We negotiate contracts, you know, and we make sure that federal employees get what they deserve, you know, as they provide services for American people.
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B
Now, certainly, in my opinion, this current administration has mistreated our federal employees in a number of ways. The, the most striking are these attempted mass layoffs. Give our listeners your thoughts on them.
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D
Well, you know, I've been involved in this Indian movement since 1981. I have never seen anything like what we are seeing today. Federal employees are being called names. They have been threatened, they have been fired for no reason whatsoever. You know, and of course afde been fighting those initiatives, but it's just never been anything like that. 93 years we've been in existence representing federal employees, but never have we seen and onslaught like we're seeing today against federal employees for no apparent reason whatsoever.
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B
Give us an idea of the impact that's having inside the agencies or the cabinets where these employees are being laid off on the inability to do even some of the basics that those cabinets and agencies are expected to do.
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D
Well, you know, I don't know that the American people has completely felt the impact yet, but it certainly will eventually and I believe sooner rather than later.
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B
Your members are currently going through a tough time with this shutdown, some furloughed, some laid off, I think unlawfully by this president. Tell us your thoughts and what you think both parties or either party should be doing right now.
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D
Well, Governor, thank you for that question because it's my opinion that both parties need to be considering the plight and the effects of federal employees. The hardest sight for me to see as a local or a national leader or a pastor is to see the people that I represent standing in line to get food. Now it is un American to see that. So my position is this, you know, in regardless to the party, the Congress need to come together, do their job and make sure that the government gets open. Suddenly we need to deal with the crisis on health care. Both of those issues need to be addressed. But more than anything right now, 820,000 of the people that I represent, 750,000 more or less is out of a job. They're worrying about whether or not they're going to have money for food. They're worrying about whether or not they're going to be able to pay house note because just like the rest of America, 65% of America live from a check to paycheck. And the people that I represent is no different. You know, and you as you know, there's better than 22,000 right here in the state of Kentucky. You know, and they are the people that's going to be growing without a paycheck. They're the people that's going to be gone without food. They're the ones that's going to be going without a mortgage payment. And guess what? You know, one missed paycheck could be a matter of life or death for some of these employees.
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B
I do think it's important that we point out that a government shutdown does not require a president to fire anyone. And in the past, we haven't seen layoffs whatsoever in government shutdowns. But what the Trump administration is doing, in my opinion, is both using it as an excuse to further unlawfully lay people off or to use it as a form of almost blackmail that if you don't reopen the government, I'm going to hurt a whole bunch of people.
- [32:31]
D
These are the threats that the federal employees have had to endure. And I do believe that is unlawful. And that's why we are challenging this administration in court. We've challenged them on many occasions and we will continue to challenge them, this administration, every time they do something against the members that I represent that is unlawful.
- [32:50]
B
Tell us what it's like to represent such a large number of people that are going to have different political views themselves that come from different parts of the country, but are all serving their country in really important roles. Do you delight in fright? Welcome to AMC's Fear Fest, a month long celebration of your favorite horror movies like Halloween, Friday the 13th, Nightmare on Elm street and Final Destination, all hosted by our hallow queen, the incomparable Janelle Monae. Embrace the joy of horror with Fear Fest. Watch all October on AMC and amc. You know, and that is a very.
- [33:36]
D
Good question because we do get, you know, varying opinions on several things. You know, even when you come to the shutdown, you get different opinions. But my objective is always to look at what's best for the members that I represent. What's best for the whole, you know, not two or three, you know, but what's best for the holder. That's the issue that I have with every single day.
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E
So.
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B
So I see the Trump administration trying to denigrate our federal employees. If you were describing a federal employee to the public, how would you do it?
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D
Well, I would show very angry, probably vibes, very frustrated, very concerned about where the future will be for federal employees. I think the federal employees are very angry. They're upset and they're absolutely tired of being used as phones in a political game.
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B
And they're being lied to as well. I mean, there are folks that have gotten promotions that are thus on probationary status again, that are being fired and they get a letter that says it was for poor performance and they just.
- [34:54]
D
Got promoted, you know, and that's one of the issues we did carry this administration to court on. And the judge said, you know, look, you know, the federal government, you're not Being honest, you're not being forthright, you know, because that's exactly what happened. You know, they were just using a pretext, you know, for firing people. But the bottom line is they just wanted to pick and choose who they wanted to fire, you know, and they just fired people for no reason whatsoever. But we carried them to court, and we're still depending on the courts to show that this administration was absolutely. It's rigged in those actions.
- [35:27]
B
Any final message to listeners about your members, about the plight they're going through right now and what you want to make sure the American public hears?
- [35:38]
D
Well, I just want to make sure that every citizen will call their country, whether they are Democrat or Republican, tell them that federal employee should never, ever be used as horns in a political game. Tell them that, you know, it's not about size. It's not about whether or not one polls in this game here, but it's about making sure that federal employees get paid for the work that they perform for the American people. So that's my ask of this country, you know, and then ask them to always respect these hardworking federal employees that give themselves every single day to make sure that the record people get the services that they deserve.
- [36:24]
B
Everett Kelly, thank you for your leadership and thanks for being on the podcast.
- [36:28]
D
Thank you, sir.
- [36:35]
B
Today we are fortunate to have Attorney General Nick Brown from the state of Washington.
- [36:41]
F
Thank you, Governor. It's good to be here.
- [36:42]
B
You're basically out there protecting our democracy. And one area that you're doing that is pushing back against the weaponization of the Department of Justice. Tell us a little bit about these indictments and why we should all be so concerned.
- [36:58]
F
What we've seen from this Department of Justice is very tragic. And, you know, obviously the indictments over the last couple of weeks specifically targeting the President's political opponents is pretty shocking. But also, this is what the President and his team have been laying out since the very beginning. I mean, the President talked about going after people who opposed him. Attorney General Bondi, who is, you know, the most powerful law enforcement figure in the United States, signaled from the very beginning, day one of her term, that the men and women who work for the administration's Department of Justice work for the President and not for the people. They talked about rooting out people that didn't like the President's policies or him personally. And we're really seeing that take effect now. And it's very damaging, not only for those individuals who are targeted, but, but for the rest of our country moving forward as we pursue these cases.
- [37:45]
B
What's that driving? Why that got you into this, that compels you to continue to do things where you could make more money in a different type of practice, but you choose this path.
- [37:59]
F
You know, I've been a lawyer now for over two decades. I've spent the vast majority of my career in public service, dating way back to the beginning of my legal career, when I was an Army JAG lawyer serving in the military, helping soldiers and their families navigate difficult legal issues. What keeps me here, what keeps bringing me back to this type of work, is that there are very few jobs as a lawyer where you recognize that every single thing that you do, it matters. And when I get to come to work and work with a law firm full of people who are dedicated to making Washington better and this country better, it's with that recognition that the big things that we're doing and the small things are improving people's lives. And, you know, it's a little cheesy and cliche, but there's nothing really more rewarding than that, than seeing the work have an impact on people.
- [38:44]
B
This is Washington Attorney General Nick Brown, former U.S. attorney. Thanks for joining the podcast, and thanks for what you and the other Dem Ags are doing.
- [38:53]
F
Thank you, Governor. I appreciate it.
- [39:01]
B
You're listening to the Andy Beshear Podcast. We talk about this podcast as a conversation among friends, a way that we process the news that seems to hit us minute by minute throughout the day, seemingly a week's worth of news every single day. So to do that, I have a conversation with my friends John Rabinowitz and John McConnell, and we decided to do a little better today. And we've got Brittany Beshear, my wife, first lady of Kentucky, joining us. Welcome to the Johns.
- [39:31]
A
Thank you. I feel very part of the crew now.
- [39:35]
C
I'm officially.
- [39:36]
A
No, that's not right. I was gonna say I'm officially a john, but that's not right.
- [39:40]
G
Well, you definitely class up the john segment.
- [39:43]
B
Amen. She does.
- [39:45]
G
I will tell you guys, it's nice to be back in person. Haven't seen you guys in a few weeks, so I'm also very thankful I'm not sitting on that tiny couch.
- [39:54]
A
Well, I took one for the team today.
- [39:56]
G
Thank you.
- [39:56]
B
We got a lot to cover today. Let's start with what's on many people's minds, and that's the government shutdown. Already one of the longest shutdowns in history, and there are a lot of implications to it. Democrats are refusing to vote to reopen the government unless Republicans will vote to extend premium tax credits for the Affordable Care act exchanges which keep the cost of health care lower. In other words, Democrats are saying without this leverage, without forcing a vote, health care is going to go up for a lot of Americans. Republicans on the other side are saying just vote for a clean, keep the government open a certain number of more months and we won't sit down and negotiate with you and we won't vote for anything else unless you do so. Meanwhile, we've got federal employees that are furloughed that are missing paychecks and it looks like snap benefits won't go out in most states in November. So, John McConnell, let's start with you.
- [41:01]
E
I could hop in on the health care piece because you know, right now the Democrats are holding out to get a vote to reinstate those tax credits and that's going to be a big deal not only for the individuals buying but for the small businesses who buy their insurance through that path and saying you're going to wait until December or the end of the year when they.
- [41:21]
B
So Republicans are saying not vote on it right now, reopen the government and we'll discuss this and possibly vote on it in December. Why does that not work?
- [41:30]
E
Well, because you've got an open enrollment that's going to start in the next few days. So if that starts, the companies have to put out a rate.
- [41:37]
B
And so you get locked in on the amount it's going to cost and.
- [41:40]
E
That rate is going to reflect what it currently is right now without those.
- [41:45]
B
Credits, which is double for most people.
- [41:47]
E
You'Re going to see 50 to 100% increases based on the family make up an income, like I said. And that's going to hit small businesses a lot.
- [41:54]
B
And so There are about 20 million people, I believe they've said on the exchange that get that directly. But hospitals are going to get hit if people fall off of the exchange.
- [42:05]
E
Well, hospitals count on your actual insurance payers so your private insurance side to help actually make revenue for them. So if they start to deal with the Medicaid hit, which is going to happen now, we know that's taking place now, all of a sudden you lose a percentage of your commercial insurance payers. It's a big chunk.
- [42:25]
B
It's a double head.
- [42:25]
G
I'll tell you, Andy, what concerns me is both sides have made their points. We understand the arguments and the issues, but there doesn't seem to be any end in sight. And the people that are suffering are our friends, our family members. And I feel at times they feel that they are just Caught in the crossfire and forgotten. And so you're talking about federal employees. Federal employees. And I'll tell you, I remember in law school I had this one law professor that said to me, you know why everyone in this room is the luckiest people on the planet? It's because you were born in the United States. We have all these benefits and we take care of our people. And to think we might not be take. Both parties may not be taking care of our people and stat benefits may be taken. That's a real problem at a state like Kentucky where we have, I think like what, 600,000 people that depend on SNAP benefits. What can, what can our state officials do? Our state, like, is there anything that we can help out?
- [43:24]
B
So what we're doing is helping in every area that we can. TANF provides help to at risk families for a certain period of time. We get about 12.5 million from the federal government each month for that. We're going to be able to float that for one month here in Kentucky to help those families. But snap, the federal government is saying we're not allowed to. We specifically receive those instructions. And typically what we do is we provide the names of individuals who qualify to vendors. But the federal government directly provides the money. It's about $100 million. No state is going to be able to do that. So I hope that both we can get a vote that keeps health care costs down for struggling Americans and also reopens the government, keeps those SNAP payments.
- [44:12]
G
Flowing because it does not sound like legally they can access that contingency fund.
- [44:18]
B
From what I'm reading, Brittany, we've talked about what's happening at the White House after the President said he wanted to build a ballroom. $200 million now $300 million. But hey, tariffs have increased construction costs. Then then said it's not going to impact the East Wing. And then the bulldozers and backhoes showed up and the East Wing is gone. How do you feel about it?
- [44:42]
A
It hurts. And it. Here's why it hurts. We live in the Kentucky Governor's mansion and we are very fortunate to be the caretakers of the history in that house. We embody that job. I mean, we are there as the caretakers for four to eight years and then it's the next administration's turn. And that history is such an integral piece of who we are as Kentuckians. The pieces in there tell stories. The house is a story. The history behind why the house was built as a story.
- [45:19]
B
People come to take pictures in front of it and make those moments and.
- [45:22]
A
Imagine somebody just saying, I don't like the ballroom and they just tear it down. That's not progress. That is taking part of our identity away. And I feel that way with the White House. Trump literally bulldozed a part of our American heritage and we can't get that back. I don't call that progress. I call that just. I don't know what I call that. But it hurts to know that it was done so, so callously.
- [45:49]
B
I think, John, you got a different take.
- [45:50]
G
I do have a.
- [45:51]
B
Listen, I tried to set you up.
- [45:53]
G
I know you really did. This is really uncomfortable. Well, one I'm looking forward to hopefully in the Future visiting this 90,000 square foot new ballroom. But I actually, I totally respect and understand that opinion. But I also think like the White House needs to evolve. I think they need to have. I can't believe they don't have a ballroom big enough right now to host big events that they're having to host people outside from what I'm reading. But I do think two big rooms.
- [46:24]
B
Connected by a hallway that they do most of their events at. We've been at a Christmas party for two straight years that had to have probably close to a thousand people. But it's not one big ballroom that. That houses everyone.
- [46:38]
G
Okay. And then. But I do think it sounds. The pictures. It looks like it needs to be updated. Could he have handled it maybe in a different way with more input? Probably. And I actually, because we have no information on it, it just happened. Like it could be that he was able to preserve some things, but who knows because we don't know.
- [46:57]
A
I don't know. John couldn't even paint his house without 10 different.
- [47:01]
G
I do think that so. So I kind of related to you and I, John, a little bit. We live in houses from the 1800s and we want to preserve certain things, but there are things like we just have to change and it has to grow and it has to modernize.
- [47:15]
B
But admit you do have to go through a big permit process and this one just kind of happened.
- [47:20]
G
We absolutely have to do that.
- [47:23]
E
John McConnell did well and I'll throw something in here too. When I saw he was going to build a 90,000 square foot ballroom, I was like, he's just trying to put a condition convention center in like he would have at his hotel. And I really didn't get concerned about it. But I'll tell you what, when you saw the pictures of part of the building coming down just as a symbol of your country, it kind of Shocked me a little bit to see that part of your symbolism of your country is being pulled down.
- [47:49]
G
It's definitely an ask for forgiveness move, right?
- [47:51]
F
It is.
- [47:52]
B
We are running short on time. It's the Andy Beshear podcast, which means we have to talk about tariffs. 30 episodes in. We always talk about tariffs in the last two weeks, a couple things going on. Number one, soybean farmers getting hit hard. The tariffs on China. There might be a deal that we'll learn about. But the tariffs have pushed China to purchase from Brazil and Argentina. If that market dries up, there is a huge swath of America that's going to feel a lot of pain. And now the ongoing squabble with Canada continues. Somehow the president gets upset because one of the Canadian provinces airs an ad with multiple minutes of Ronald Reagan talking.
- [48:40]
G
Well, I will say this. What did the Ontario premier think was going to happen by running a commercial like that? There was no way. There was not going to be reaction.
- [48:50]
B
They were Reagan's words.
- [48:52]
D
They were.
- [48:52]
G
But there was. You knew he was going to react.
- [48:55]
B
So Ronald Reagan had to impose some tariffs at times when it would make sense. I think then it was Japan was dumping some cars and other things. But when he put that tariff on, he gave this speech, I think he was at Camp David about why tariffs are bad for trade. And Donald Trump didn't take too well to Ronald Reagan disagreeing with him.
- [49:20]
E
Well, in Ronald Reagan's words, all these years later, coming back and inciting this level of anger out of Trump when it's just replayed.
- [49:28]
G
Well, listen, Reagan obviously a huge advocate of free trade, right. And so. But the reaction to your point was an additional 10% levy on all Canadian imports.
- [49:40]
B
And you can't levy an additional tariff because you're mad or because someone ran an ad and if the Supreme Court ends up ruling that you can define that as an emergency. Ooh.
- [49:50]
G
Well, that's a great point. We should find out soon, shouldn't we?
- [49:52]
B
We should.
- [49:53]
G
On many of these tariffs, whether they're legal or not.
- [49:56]
B
It's coming. We have some news from this last week, Will Bashir now has at least his provisional driver's license. Brittany, how are you feeling about this one?
- [50:06]
A
Oh, my goodness, so many feelings. I'm so happy for him. I'm so terrified. For as a parent, I am a little sad because it's that one step closer to being a full adult. I never thought I'd be that parent that has, you know, like the flashing memories of your sweet little 2 year old. And here's my 6 foot 3, 16 year old driving off to his friend Carter's house the other day and you know you're sending him out there. Watch out, Frankfurt, he's coming.
- [50:35]
B
Will Bashir is a new driver. Clock it. And that's a wrap on episode 30 of the Andy Beshear Podcast. To the whole team that's joining me here on YouTube. Congratulations on 30 great episodes. Thanks to the audience. Thanks to all the subscribers. Remember, find a friend and get them to watch too.