Episode 9: The Governors Table, Gov. Matt Meyer & Gov. Bob Ferguson

Summary

Episode 9: The Governors Table with Gov. Matt Meyer & Gov. Bob Ferguson Release Date: June 5, 2025

Podcast Information: The Andy Beshear Podcast is a human-centric show hosted by Governor Andy Beshear. It features open, unscripted conversations with diverse guests, focusing on real-life stories, family, faith, and current events. The podcast aims to foster honest dialogue and connection beyond political discourse.

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Introduction

In this dual-interview episode filmed in Portland, Oregon at the Democratic Governor's Association, Andy Beshear welcomes two newly elected Democratic governors: Matt Meyer of Delaware and Bob Ferguson of Washington. The episode delves into their personal journeys, motivations for entering politics, accomplishments, and the challenges they face in their respective states.

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Interview with Governor Matt Meyer

Background and Early Interest in Politics

Gov. Matt Meyer shares his early engagement in politics during his youth in Delaware, highlighting his volunteer work for Senator Joe Biden's presidential campaign in the 1980s. Despite his initial passion, Meyer became disillusioned with politics, feeling it was more about giving speeches than effectuating real change. This led him to pursue software development and entrepreneurship before ultimately becoming a public school teacher.

[02:00] Matt Meyer: "I felt like if I really wanted to get stuff done, I should follow another path. And I ultimately ended up studying software development. I ended up starting a couple of businesses and ultimately went into teaching, becoming a public school teacher."

Teach for America Experience

Meyer's transformative experience with Teach for America in Anacostia, Washington D.C., profoundly influenced his career trajectory. Teaching fourth to seventh-grade math in one of the most challenging neighborhoods, he emphasizes the importance of empathy and structured discipline in education.

[04:31] Matt Meyer: "The fact that David progressed so much in that year in English and math... I believe with that I can accomplish anything if you take the right strategy."

Transition from Teaching to Business to Politics

After teaching, Meyer ventured into global business, notably developing the first e-commerce company in East Africa in the 1990s. This international experience broadened his perspective on technology and education equity. Frustrated by stagnant improvements in education and societal equity, Meyer transitioned back into local government by running for county executive, successfully defeating a long-term incumbent.

[10:15] Matt Meyer: "I quickly became a pissed-off county executive. So I ran... we won by 4% in the Democratic primary and were off and running."

Governorship Focus: Empathy and Education

As governor, Meyer prioritizes empathy and early childhood education. He advocates for universal pre-K, arguing that early investments in education can transform communities. Meyer also underscores the importance of understanding diverse community needs, whether in urban or rural settings.

[16:28] Matt Meyer: "If we can surround kids with the resources they need in the positive environments from the youngest age... we will change the trajectory of our communities in our country."

Economic Concerns: Tariffs and Medicaid

Meyer expresses concern over federal policies like tariffs and immigration laws affecting Delaware's economy, particularly the chicken farming industry. He highlights the plight of workers on temporary visas facing uncertainty due to these policies and emphasizes the need for collaboration with federal authorities to mitigate economic disruptions.

[20:15] Matt Meyer: "We're seeing a country that's being run like a cybertruck right now. It's a monstrosity subject to constant recall."

Challenges in the Role

Navigating the complexities of gubernatorial duties, Meyer notes the increased support system compared to his previous role as county executive. He emphasizes the importance of collaboration within state government to implement policies effectively.

[18:26] Matt Meyer: "The most surprising thing about the job is I have a lot more people with me."

Light Segment: Secret Superpower

Meyer reveals his knack for making smoothies, sharing a practical tip about avoiding ice for a better texture.

[22:29] Matt Meyer: "My secret superpower is making smoothies... Freeze the fruit and then put the fruit. It gives you the cold anyway."

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Interview with Governor Bob Ferguson

Background: Chess and Mountain Climbing

Gov. Bob Ferguson discusses his unique hobbies—being an internationally ranked chess player and an avid mountain climber. These activities provide him with a balanced life, offering mental stimulation and a connection to the natural world.

[24:00] Bob Ferguson: "Chess is obviously using a very different part of my brain compared to the work that we do."

Path into Politics

Ferguson's path to politics was driven by grassroots initiatives. After practicing law in Seattle, he challenged a long-serving incumbent for the King County Council, winning a close race by emphasizing local issues like law enforcement and zoning. His victory underscores the importance of every vote.

[29:05] Bob Ferguson: "If one person in each precinct had changed their vote, just one, I would have lost."

Governorship Accomplishments: Public Safety

Ferguson highlights his successful push for a $100 million grant program to bolster law enforcement in Washington state, addressing the state's ranking of low per capita law enforcement officers.

[36:23] Bob Ferguson: "We got that $100 million across the finish line, and that's going to make a difference for public safety all across our state."

Economic Concerns: Tariffs and Medicaid

Similar to Meyer, Ferguson discusses the detrimental effects of federal tariffs on Washington's trade-dependent economy. He also expresses grave concerns over potential Medicaid cuts, which could lead to significant health care access issues and hospital closures.

[40:09] Bob Ferguson: "A cut of what the House, for example, adopted, the Senate were to adopt that, that would mean about a $2 billion cut to Medicaid."

Attorney General Experiences and Legal Battles

Ferguson recounts his tenure as Attorney General, particularly his swift legal action against President Trump's early executive orders, securing nationwide injunctions within a week. He emphasizes the relentless efforts of Democratic Attorneys General in upholding the rule of law.

[30:04] Bob Ferguson: "We were in federal court and got a nationwide injunction on it, which was a... For the principle that, hey, everybody's accountable to the law."

Light Segment: Secret Superpower

Ferguson shares his ability to keep up with his teenage children, balancing his active lifestyle with his role as a father.

[43:42] Bob Ferguson: "Maybe it's a combination of I can still keep up with my son... and catching my daughter during her fast-pitch softball games."

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Conclusion

Andy Beshear wraps up the episode by acknowledging the impactful contributions of Governors Matt Meyer and Bob Ferguson. He teases upcoming episodes featuring other notable Democratic leaders like Tim Walsh and Wes Moore. Beshear emphasizes the importance of dedicated public servants in navigating the chaotic political landscape and standing up for the rule of law.

[Final Remarks] Andy Beshear: "We are lucky to have Democratic governors like them serving our country... Know that there's a lot of people out there trying to do the right thing."

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Key Takeaways:

• Empathy in Leadership: Both governors emphasize the role of empathy in their governance, striving to understand and address the diverse needs of their constituents.
• Early Education Advocacy: A strong focus on universal pre-K and early childhood education as a foundation for community development.
• Economic Challenges: Addressing the impacts of federal tariffs and potential Medicaid cuts on local economies and public services.
• Grassroots Politics: Highlighting the significance of every vote and grassroots efforts in political victories.
• Personal Passions: Governors share personal hobbies that balance their professional responsibilities, humanizing their public personas.

Notable Quotes:

• Matt Meyer: "If we can surround kids with the resources they need in the positive environments from the youngest age... we will change the trajectory of our communities in our country." [07:31]
• Bob Ferguson: "We are CEOs of our domain. We run large organizations and a lot of what we think about is how do we incentivize people." [19:56]
• Bob Ferguson: "If there was a delay, that's costing you money." [38:59]
• Matt Meyer: "By the grace of God, for the first six weeks, we never got to the third rung." [05:18]

This episode offers a comprehensive look into the minds of two dedicated governors, their paths to leadership, and their visions for their states amidst national challenges. Listeners gain valuable insights into the blend of personal experiences and professional responsibilities that shape effective governance.

Transcript

[Matt Meyer]

Foreign.

[Andy Beshear]

Welcome to the Andy Beshear Podcast. This episode, we are on location in Portland, Oregon at the Democratic Governor's Association. So a little less fancy, but we have not one, but two great interviews that we're going to have on today's episode. First, we've got Matt Meyer, the new governor of Delaware. Then we have Bob Ferguson, the new governor of Washington, who I also served as an attorney general with for a number of years and was the first AG to defeat the first Trump administration in court. It's going to be an exciting episode where we really get to hear from these two public servants about what drives them, how they got into politics, and some of the things that that they are most proud of. Remember, you can download the Andy Bashir Podcast on all major platforms or you can subscribe to our YouTube channel @andy Beshear Podcast. Let's get to it. You're listening to the Andy Beshear Podcast. Our first guest this week is Matt Meyer. He is the governor of Delaware, the very first state in our country. He's been governor now for several months. So we're going to talk about his background and check in on how he's doing. Welcome to the podcast.

[Matt Meyer]

Thanks, Governor Beshear, it's truly an honor to be here with you.

[Andy Beshear]

Well, we're excited to have you on. We are on location here in Portland, Oregon. We've both taken a pretty long flight to get here.

[Matt Meyer]

A couple flights, yeah.

[Andy Beshear]

So you got interested in politics at a pretty early age, and we've talked about once or twice how you ended up volunteering for a pretty big campaign.

[Matt Meyer]

That's right. I'm from Delaware. And part of growing up in Delaware, if you have any interest in politics, back when I was growing up is almost all of us in my generation spent time volunteering for a young senator named Joe Biden who in the 80s ran for president. So I like to say I had the right guy at the wrong time. And actually, Governor Beshear, I was really into politics in high school and into college, and then I kind of was turned off to politics. I felt like it wasn't really a mechanism to get real stuff done based on my experience. It was an opportunity to stand up and give speeches. But I felt like if I really wanted to get stuff done, I should follow another path. And I ultimately ended up studying software development. I ended up starting a couple businesses and ultimately, as we can discuss, when went into teaching, became a public school teacher.

[Andy Beshear]

See, I was interested in politics and high school primarily because my family had been involved in politics but then everything I ran for, I lost. If there were three people running, I would come in fifth in high school. But they say you should never peak too early.

[Matt Meyer]

That's right. You, you, room for improvement.

[Andy Beshear]

That's right.

[Matt Meyer]

You had a lot of potential.

[Andy Beshear]

That's right. That's what I heard you were involved with, with Teach for America, an amazing program. Tell us a little bit about that.

[Matt Meyer]

It's extraordinary. You know, I was a 25 year old kid trying to figure out what I wanted to do and ultimately got into this program called Teach for America. The idea of Teach for America, and it still exists in communities all across the country. Back then There were about 10 cities across the country where they would place people. And you basically say, I want to give two years to teach, like a Peace Corps for America or an AmeriCorps, where you say, I will go and anywhere, wherever it's needed, train me for a summer and send me to teach. Spent a summer at the University of Houston learning, training how to be a teacher. And There was a fourth grade teacher in Anacostia, the Anacostia section of Washington, D.C. i spent three years as a D.C. public school teacher. And that is an experience, quite frankly, that changed the trajectory of my life and impacts what I do is as the governor of the first state every single day.

[Andy Beshear]

What did you teach?

[Matt Meyer]

So I taught, I initially taught fourth grade and then eventually I taught sixth and seventh grade. Math is what I eventually got into. And you know, it's not even what you. I feel like I was taught a lot more than I taught and my first year teaching, I will never forget my first year teaching. I go through teacher training and they tell me, you need to have like a discipline ladder. It's good training for being a parent, right?

[Andy Beshear]

Yes.

[Matt Meyer]

If they do one thing wrong, here's the punishment if they do two, here's the additional punishment if they do three. And you make that clear from day one. So my, one of my teacher mentors said, you know, if you're, if you really want to do something, what I do, when kids hit the third, the third rung on the ladder, discipline ladder, I farmed to their house. Okay. This is the Anacostia section of Washington D.C. at the time, known to be among the most violent neighborhoods in the country 25 years ago. And so that was the third rung on my lap. First rung, you don't do your homework or misbehaving. You miss recess. Second rung, you get a call home. If the first and second don't work, the third is I follow you home. And by the grace of God, for the first six weeks, we never got to the third rung.

[Andy Beshear]

Never got to the third rung.

[Matt Meyer]

About six weeks in, a kid named David shows up in my class, fourth grader, and he didn't do a thing. He literally would just sit there and I would ask him to do work or whatever, pass around, and he would just sit there. And as a teacher, you got to do something. If you don't do something, then every kid's going to be just sitting there and ignoring you. So we got to the first rung, second rung called home, no one was picking up. So about three days, third day of class, I was following him home. And so the kids line up and they start walking out of school. And I'm following along and David knows what I'm doing. All the kids know what I'm doing. They're like, oh, what's Mr. Meyer going to do? What's he going to do? David bolts through houses. He's gone, right? And I know where I'm going. I'm not going to go running around. Right, right. So I'm like, what do I do? You got to. Any parent knows you got to enforce that if you don't. Like, I'd lose everything if I didn't. I had to show I was serious about it. So I go back to the office and I realize I have his address. So I just look up his address. He lived four or five blocks away from school. And I walk over to his house and I knock on the door. And he comes to the door, he sees me. Most shocked look on a kid's face. I thought it was kind of funny. He goes, welcome back. Mom comes up and she opens the door and I introduce myself. And a tear is dropping down her eye onto her cheek. That young boy saw his sister murdered right at the end of the summer, about eight weeks before that. And sitting on the couch there with that family, my life changed. Waking up the next morning knowing I had to go to school and be a teacher, be a man, and stand as a 25 year old kid and teach this kid who was burning up inside dealing with things that I to this day can barely understand. That challenge and that challenge of trying to educate in the most challenging environment is something that I carry with me every day. The fact that David progressed so much in that year in English and math that by the end of the school year he was doing his work on task, on grade level every day, I believe with that I can accomplish anything. If you take the right strategy. If you bring people together and if you're a little understanding and inclusive, we in a classroom or in this country can honestly do anything.

[Andy Beshear]

And I think a word that pulls all of that together is empathy. Approaching this job, your job as governor or that job with empathy, I think makes us better, but it also means we don't have to fully understand or feel what somebody has gone through to show them that we care about them.

[Matt Meyer]

Absolutely, absolutely. There's a lot of things. Yeah, a lot. You know, in each of our jobs we encounter a lot of people in situations that is truly, truly challenging to understand. You do your best to get in their shoes, try to understand what their stresses are every day, but you can still try. And you can always assist and support and let them know that we're here for you. And that's true if you live in a city or out in the country. If you're a farmer working at some high tech company, quite frankly, if you're a Democrat or something called a Republican, it doesn't matter.

[Andy Beshear]

We can all do this together and ought to. That's that idea of common ground, common sense. Get things done in the areas that matter most to people. So you teach, you have this life changing experience, then tell us about moving into software, being in business and how that continued your journey.

[Matt Meyer]

Well, actually I ended up, believe it or not, in Nairobi, Kenya. Got an opportunity to go in college and then I kept some interest there and I met some young people who were making sandals out of tires and we enhanced it and built it into a product that we were selling all over the world. We actually were the first E commerce company in East Africa, in Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania in the 90s and started, we imagine a little like it was, I don't know, like an Amazon commercial or something. You have three people and I was one of them. In this little workshop where electricity would be on and off during the day, there was no running water, we'd have to go fetch our water. And I was supporting it and making sure it survived. And the next thing you know, we made something called a wedding website on something called the world Wide web. And using PayPal and local banking system, somebody could buy one pair of sandals and they could walk half a kilometer to the bank, use something called an ATM machine and pull out money that was basically equivalent to an average monthly income for a family based on selling one pair of sandals. And off that we were off and running. Took that little three person workshop, turned it into a 25 person workshop and it eventually split off into three companies and quite a few people there are still making sandals today.

[Andy Beshear]

And so eventually you make the decision that politics might not be the worst thing, it might be a way to do some things. And you get involved in local government.

[Matt Meyer]

That's right. So 10 years ago, I was teaching sixth and seventh grade math in Wilmington and I was frustrated. In the course of 25, 30 years, things weren't changing the way I felt they should. I felt like when I was a kid, Andy, they'd always say to us, each generation of America is wealthier, more equitable, more inclusive and more diverse than any generation before it. And I got a sense that maybe that's less true today than it's ever been. And so that really, as you start talking like that, you know, other teachers and parents are like, maybe you shouldn't be teaching sixth and seventh grade math. Right. And kind of, I like to say I ran as a pissed off teacher.

[Andy Beshear]

Yes.

[Matt Meyer]

And I quickly became a pissed off county executive. So I ran a. So I had this crazy idea, I'm going to run for county executive. There was a three term county executive, has served for 12 years, was the police chief before it. Everybody knew him.

[Andy Beshear]

And you run directly for it from the classroom for county executive.

[Matt Meyer]

That's right. And it's incredible. I mean, I. I don't need to tell you this. A lot of elections is math.

[Andy Beshear]

Yes.

[Matt Meyer]

And you do the math and you look at the data and you analyze the data and you try to. It's a layer. On top of it is some psychology, understanding what do people want from their community and what do they want from their leaders, and trying to develop a plan to be responsive to that. And we were a little bit good, but we were mostly pretty lucky. We won by 4% in the Democratic primary and we were off and running.

[Andy Beshear]

Oh, that's what was harder, teaching middle schoolers or local government.

[Matt Meyer]

Tip of the hat to the teachers out there.

[Andy Beshear]

Amen.

[Matt Meyer]

I don't know if there's anything harder than. Not every day, but on certain days, those days, any teacher, many parents know what I'm talking about on that day, in that moment, there is nothing harder than being. Being a middle school math teacher. And I taught right across the hall from. From Darnell Miller, who's one of the top musicians in the area, which sounds fantastic. He's a friend of mine to this day. But you do not want to teach math across the hall from the music teacher. It was the number of times kids I'm trying to teach how to multiply fractions and kids are playing Drums just to. With the. With the. With the music coming from the hallway. But no, it's. There are challenges in the classroom, but also my goal in many ways as governor is to deliver in a way for people, for working families, in a way that I feel like gets them more than I would get them if I was a great teacher. Because, I mean, it's hard to imagine having more of an impact than a teacher has. When you have kids walk in your classroom in the morning or at the beginning of their school year, and they say, I can't, I can't, I can't. And they walk out at the end of your class period, at the end of the school day, at the end of the week or the end of the school year and say, wow, I did that. And I did it myself.

[Andy Beshear]

Now we are both parents. I have two teenagers. Yours are kind of across the board.

[Matt Meyer]

Right.

[Andy Beshear]

Who listen to you more. Your students in the classroom or your own kids? Yeah, because I get more wins from my Republican legislature than I do my two teenagers.

[Matt Meyer]

I mean, it's. It's. Yeah, it's. There are challenges. And I have to thank you. You have been very generous with your time and your kids time. Going into the situation we're going into is a change for the kids, and it's been very helpful. Your kids counseling and speaking to our kids has been very helpful. And telling them what rides to go on in Disney World, that's important.

[Andy Beshear]

There's gotta be a benefit or two. And you've got a young one, too.

[Matt Meyer]

That's right. 15 months old. Levi. He walks in every room now and smiles and waves. He's. The test of any of my speeches is if he. If he sleeps during the speech, I can't. I can't go and give that speech. So we test him out on him.

[Andy Beshear]

My test is if I can get my kids to the speech in the first place. So. So since you become governor, or probably even leading up to it, you've. You've talked about a number of issues that I'm also very supportive of. One is pre K. Talk to me a little bit about pre K. Well.

[Matt Meyer]

First of all, having the experience in local government, I think it's extraordinary experience for what I do now. My job for eight years, running our state's largest county. And I should mention I'm the first person in that position as county executive to be reelected since a man named Chris Coons was back when he was.

[Andy Beshear]

County executive, who has been on this podcast.

[Matt Meyer]

Is that right?

[Andy Beshear]

Yes.

[Matt Meyer]

I'm following in Chris's footsteps in many ways, but they at its core. My job was for eight years was to make sure sewage didn't leak into people's basements, making sure their sewer fees and their property taxes was low and making sure if you called 911, a paramedic or police officer showed up as quickly as possible. That call was answered quickly and professionally. Didn't matter whether the caller, didn't matter whether the sewer user flushing the toilet was a Democrat or Republican. Didn't matter their opinion or this. I had to deliver. And what was amazing is that when I did deliver, people would support me. It didn't matter what news channel they watched or what they believed about global politics or national politics. They would support me. And many of them knew that. They had disagreements with, but they didn't care. And others who agreed with me on a lot of stuff. If I didn't get the sewage out of their basements, they're never voting for me. So I enter the governor's seat with that in mind. And I think one of those basic things that we all agree in as Delawareans and I think across the country is excellent early childhood experiences and particularly early childhood education. People understand that. Any parent understands that. They say that you can only bend a tree when it's young. And if we can surround kids with the resources they need in the positive environments from the youngest age prevention, but not entirely, but particularly kids from challenged environments, we will change the trajectory of our communities in our country. So that's why we are a state without. You guys have universal pre K in Kentucky?

[Andy Beshear]

We do not. We're working on it.

[Matt Meyer]

It's real expensive and it's in Delaware. I don't know about. It's a hard problem to solve because there are a lot of private providers. There are a lot of public providers. The private providers don't want the public to come in because then all the private providers will go away. And quite frankly, it becomes a lot more expensive if you do all but. But we're working to piece it together. We have a plan where we're moving forward to make sure every 4 year old can get access to an excellent education. One thing that's interesting is that as a kid who when I joined Teach for America, they assign you a grade. You don't. Most teachers don't teach. You decide. I want to be a high school biology teacher. And that's what you are. I was a tech guy in college. I was passionate about making sure education of math and computers was equitable. And for me that was about being A high school technology teacher, they placed me in fourth grade. And so I'm in fourth grade. And as I'm preparing to teach that first year in anacostia in Washington, D.C. i'm like, what am I going to. Like, I don't. I don't. I want to talk about, like, algorithms and programming languages. What am I going to do? These kids are too young. And it took me about a week to realize they're not too young in some ways, they're too old. The hardened kids were often hardened and the soft kids were soft. And as I ended up teaching a little bit of pre K in our school, and it was a lot harder, to be honest, but I realized the tremendous value with relatively modest investments, the tremendous impact it can make on younger kids. So I'm passionate about making sure we have universal pre K. And also we really put a microscope on the experience of kids growing up and working families. 0 to 3. These are parents who care passionately about their children, but often are short on the resources to really get the kids the help or supports that they need.

[Andy Beshear]

You're listening to the Andy Beshear Podcast. Our first guest this week, Governor Matt Meyer from Delaware. So you've now been governor for about four or five months. What is the most surprising thing about the job?

[Matt Meyer]

The most surprising thing about the job is I have a lot more people with me.

[Andy Beshear]

Yes.

[Matt Meyer]

When I'm county executive, they come up to you in the supermarket and you. Next thing you know, there's a lot. There's like my, My wife would joke, there are lines at the register and there are lines in the aisle. Wherever I am of this, there's a problem, you know, pothole in the street or my sewer bill's not right or whatever it is.

[Andy Beshear]

And you're taking notes.

[Matt Meyer]

Taking notes. You always bring the notepad with you. Now there are a lot more people supporting and helping. You have to be. Once you move to. I don't like to say move up, move to a different job as governor. A lot of it's about gaining the support of people who are going to do the things I really care about. I like to say if I have a policy, I need to sell the new policy. I not only need to sell the legislature on it to get the resources right to get it done, but I often need to sell the people working in state government because if they don't believe in it, it might get done, but. But it's not gonna get done. Well, people don't often think about it this way, but we are CEOs of our domain. We run large organizations and a lot of what we think about is how do we incentivize people. Right. To do the right thing. Right. Be ethical, but also to be efficient. If you have great new ideas, get em up to me, get em up to my team so we can put them in place and maybe change the course of our state or our country.

[Andy Beshear]

So you've come in at a time when we're seeing a lot of chaos out of Washington D.C. we see a destructive tariff policy, we see threatened cuts to Medicaid, possibly huge snap costs on states. Tell us what you're seeing in the economy and what your biggest concerns are.

[Matt Meyer]

We're seeing a country that's being run like a cybertruck right now. It's a monstrosity subject to constant recall.

[Andy Beshear]

Yes.

[Matt Meyer]

And it's not priced for the American family. It's challenging to have people in Washington. I don't know if it's ever been like this. I haven't been a guy. I was sworn in the day after President Trump was sworn in as president. But to feel like Washington is coming at you all the time. I said in my inaugural address, I wanna work with Washington. I know it might not be popular to say among a lot of the people that like me and support me, I want President Trump to be successful.

[Andy Beshear]

Cause your job is to get the best for your people.

[Matt Meyer]

That's right. We gotta deliver. And so far, almost everything we've seen is frustration from chicken farmers. Chicken farmers who are providing food not just to Delaware, but to the nation in some ways the world providing thousands of valuable jobs.

[Andy Beshear]

Soybean farmers. Kentucky.

[Matt Meyer]

Between tariffs and immigration laws that you're kicking, there's a large. One of the largest chicken plants in Delaware. 40% of their employees are at risk because they're hardworking, mostly Haitians who've been here on temporary visa programs. Slowly they're moving into green cards and eventually citizens. Many of them have. When you talk to them, they're living the American dream. Why would we kick them out of this country? Why would we send them back to Haiti where many of them haven't lived since they were teenagers or earlier, have no idea how to survive. I mean that's one of you can go on a litany of programs and policies. And we reach out to the White House begging them. I want to work with you. I want you to understand what I'm seeing. Just not Democrat, Republican, just as a human being who wants good for our country. Like tell me how this makes sense. And so it's a struggle. We still have our door open. We're eager to work, to deliver for Delaware. And what I like to say, I didn't. When I was teaching David fourth grade, I didn't have a whole lot helping me. I had to figure it out. So if we get help, great. That's going to make a big difference in our community. But if we don't, we're going to deliver anyway.

[Andy Beshear]

That's our job. So we like to end the interviews typically a little bit light. So tell us, what is your secret superpower, your thing that you do really well that maybe no one knows about?

[Matt Meyer]

Smoothies, Smoothies, Smoothies. When the fruit's, like, about to go bad, right. You know, you always have kids running around. There's always fruit you bought that doesn't or nobody wants to eat it. It has a few bad parts or whatever. Throw it in the freezer if you can, cut it up beforehand. And then the biggest I'm gonna give it. This is a big secret. I mean, you've listened this long in the podcast. The biggest secret is ice. Ice is terrible for smoothies. Never put ice in a smoothie. Freeze the fruit and then put the fruit. It gives you the cold anyway. It's great. So my secret superpower is making smoothies.

[Andy Beshear]

Well, thank you for being on the podcast. And now to everybody out there, you can make the best smoothie possible, thanks to the governor of Delaware. You're listening to the Andy Beshear Podcast. Our next guest is the new governor of the state of Washington, Bob Ferguson. Bob served in local government. He served as attorney general. We served during the same time. And he is the newly elected governor of Washington, where he's doing a great job. Bob, welcome to the podcast.

[Bob Ferguson]

Great to see you, Andy. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

[Andy Beshear]

You are one of the most interesting individuals that I've known in life because you have hobbies that most people more than hobbies would think are so different. You're both a internationally ranked chess player and you're a mountain climber.

[Bob Ferguson]

That's true.

[Andy Beshear]

Tell me how one human being can do both.

[Bob Ferguson]

Well, it's easy. It's, you know, to your point, I think the jobs that we have, it's important to have a balanced life. And I've just always had interest outside my work. And the chest started at a young age, mountain climbing a little bit later. But I find they, you know, for me, they work in different ways. The mountain climbing, the outdoors. You know, I love my state. It's beautiful state. The climbing gets me out there with the natural world. That's a nice break from the work. And chess is obviously using a very different part of my brain, our brains and the work that we do. So for me, I don't really think of them as being all that different in a way, but they're, you know, pretty big part of my life, as you might imagine.

[Andy Beshear]

Do you remember the first time you were handed a chessboard?

[Bob Ferguson]

Oh, I have a very clear memory. So I was nine years old and for whatever reason, I was looking at a catalog for Christmas gifts and I remember where I was sitting in my parents house and I saw a chess set, a magnetic chess set in this. Oh, one of the magazines. Yeah, Magnetic one, exactly. It was in this magazine. And Andy, I think I just liked the way the pieces looked, you know. And I asked Santa Claus for Christmas for this chess set. Santa delivered, got the chess set and you know, I was just a kid, so the first thing I did was I took out one of the nights and I put it in our toaster to see what would happen. That was how my chess career started. But I advanced from there. But that was, I still have that chess set somewhere around the house. You know, I spent many, many hours studying chess, learning chess on that little small magnetic chess that I could take on car road trips with the family and wherever we were going.

[Andy Beshear]

Have you ever been in a disagreement with someone and said, how about we settle it over a game of chess?

[Bob Ferguson]

Only sometimes people jokingly, jokingly will do that. But, but no, my, my, my chess life, you know, after I finished high school, I did not go to college right away. I decided to try and become a professional chess player. So I went over to Europe when I was 18 and made my parents a little nervous I think, not going to college and, but, but they supported me and I had a great experience, you know, playing overseas, playing internationally exposed me to the world, you know, traveled through was then East Germany to get to West Berlin for a tournament. So just chess really opened up the world to me in a pre Internet days where I'm meeting people from all around the world and chess is really a common language. You roll into a chess term in West Berlin, you're meeting players from all over the world and there's a real culture of, you know, getting together after the game, talk about the game, but also get to know each other. And that was something I really, really enjoyed.

[Andy Beshear]

So you got into politics? Yeah, on the local level I did. And I'm always impressed by that because when you're on the local level, people know where you live.

[Bob Ferguson]

Yes.

[Andy Beshear]

So tell us a little bit about what, what drove you when you decided this is something I'm going to do.

[Bob Ferguson]

Yeah, well, first, you're right about local politics. I say all the time, if I'm going to an event for someone running for a local office, school board, mayor, city, county council, I will often say these folks have the toughest job because to your point, those decisions are being felt right there in the neighborhood, right, right there at the bus stops, right there in the community. And so I did. I was practicing law. I was a lawyer at a, at a law firm in Seattle, a job I really loved. But, you know, I'd always had a, a poll for public service of some kind. I wasn't exactly sure when I was a young man where that would lead exactly, but I definitely had this idea in my head that maybe I want to do some form of public service and had always been interested in politics. And for me, I just had bought a house. I was living in a neighborhood in North Seattle, and, you know, there was an incumbent Democrat like me, who's chair of the county council, been serving for 20 years, but literally nobody had even challenged her for many, many years. And I just sort of thought, hey, the voter should have a choice here, you know, before a lifetime appointment to this significant body that makes a big impact on people of the county, principle that it is, because it's, oh, you can appreciate if you're running into an incumbent Democrat 20 year chair of the county Council. I had zero support from the Democratic Party. Zero. You know, elected officials wouldn't endorse me. It was a total grassroots campaign, a wonderful campaign. In hindsight, it was a doorbelling campaign. Family, friends, work colleagues supported. But to me, the issues that the county grappled with, you know, the law and justice issues, the zoning issues, the transportation issues, those spoke to me for some reason, and that's what motivated me to run for the King County Council back then.

[Andy Beshear]

It reminds me of a sheriff in eastern Kentucky I know who beat a, the longest serving sheriff that we had.

[Bob Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Andy Beshear]

And he said, while I was running this long serving sheriff, looked at me and said, you're the third toughest opponent I've ever had.

[Bob Ferguson]

Is that right?

[Andy Beshear]

And then he wins the race.

[Bob Ferguson]

Then he wins the race. Yeah, it's, it's, it's tough. Taking those incumbents on is not easy. And, you know, just as a reminder for, you know, your listeners and viewers, you know, that election, if one person in each precinct had changed their vote, just one, if one person had changed the Vote in each precinct. I would have lost. And you and I are not having this conversation. Right. I'm. I'm still my law firm doing my thing instead of being the governor of the state of Washington. So whenever I speak to folks, I often remind them of that, the importance of grassroots politics. Every vote mattering. Everybody can make a difference. Right.

[Andy Beshear]

So I won my first governor's race by one and a half votes per precinct.

[Bob Ferguson]

Yep.

[Andy Beshear]

And I say the same thing. Your vote matters, whether you decide to go in matters.

[Bob Ferguson]

Right.

[Andy Beshear]

We're seeing closer and closer elections, it seems, across the country.

[Bob Ferguson]

Absolutely. I know my state. You'll see a state legislative race decided by 100 votes or less almost every single cycle. And literally, these decide important issues for our state. Who gets in there. So that is. I learned that lesson early on with that first race. Thankful it went my way, but it was a challenging way to get into politics. There's taking on and coming to my own party. That was tough.

[Andy Beshear]

So you and I both served as attorney General.

[Bob Ferguson]

Absolutely.

[Andy Beshear]

Which is a great job. You get to wake up and try to do the right thing every single day, which I think we do as governor, but you get to pick and choose your focus and where you're going to spend your time. But we were also both ags during the first Trump administration. And you won the first. First case.

[Bob Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Andy Beshear]

Against the president. Tell us about that.

[Bob Ferguson]

Yeah, it was just within a couple weeks of him taking office, maybe even less than that is he signed the executive order on the first version of the Muslim travel ban. And it was signed on a Friday afternoon in Washington, D.C. and in my office, you know, we had been. After Trump won that election, I just asked my team to take a look at what campaign promises he made, take them seriously, and assume he would act on them. And one, of course, was on essentially a Muslim travel ban. He talked about that on the campaign trail. I think a lot of people didn't take it seriously. Like, he won't really try to do that. He won't govern that way. Naive in hindsight. Right. But that was what a lot of folks thought. I decided, let's just prepare for the worst. And so, literally, when that was announced, the team had already been preparing for this. And so, you know, they did fantastic work. We were in the office all weekend, and that Monday filed a lawsuit in federal court. So it was that fast putting together a complaint. And by the next Friday, one week after it was signed, we were in federal court and got a nationwide injunction on it, which was a. You know, I think Felt good to. For the principle that, hey, everybody's accountable to the law.

[Andy Beshear]

Yes.

[Bob Ferguson]

Even if you're a president. No one's above it. No one's above it. And that. That principle, we work together, as you know, over many years of just over and over again bringing that principle to the courtroom and to the public.

[Andy Beshear]

Well, one thing that I see going on right now is other ags like you and I were stepping up, filing these lawsuits, stopping this administration from violating the law, yet they don't seem to be getting credit for it this time around like we did. It's really fascinating that you're seeing the media report on the district judges, which I think are just doing the right thing in their job. But what's getting drowned out is that Democrats are stepping up, are fighting back, and are stopping some really concerning policies.

[Bob Ferguson]

Absolutely. So the attorney general in Washington state, a guy named Nick Brown, is working with Democrat ags all across the country. And I think you're right. I've often wondered why that is, and I'm not sure if it's partly because there's a lot of conversation now about, hey, whether federal judges should have the authority. Authority to issue a nationwide ban on something that happens or not. There's been a lot of debate about that, or just they've seen the ags in the past do it, so now they're moving on to a different side of it. Whatever the reason is, I do think that gets lost out there in the public of who is bringing these cases, who's doing the work and who's winning, and that is Democratic attorneys general all across the country.

[Andy Beshear]

I. I worry that part of it is that our population, but also our media may now be looking at the judiciary in very political terms.

[Bob Ferguson]

Interesting.

[Andy Beshear]

And when we don't have the pressure on judges just to apply the law, when we start trying to classify them by who appointed them, then I think you do see some of these stories saying, how could they have the courage to stand up to this or that? Well, the answer is it's their job.

[Bob Ferguson]

Absolutely. And, you know, one thing that I wish got reported a bit more is the level of success that Democratic AGs had back when you and I were serving together on Trump 1.0. And that continues now. I know in the cases Washington was involved in, and Kentucky obviously would have been a part of many of these as well. You know, I think at the end, we won of, like, the 59 cases that had decisions. I think we won 56 of them. And these were before judges, as you know, all across the country. Some judges appointed by Republican presidents, some appointed by Democrats. But the success rate has been so high. And that has continued, I think, with this current group of AGs taking on Trump this time around. And these cases, as you know, are just hugely impactful for the future of our country. So I'm just deeply appreciative that that work and proud that we helped set a certain standard, I think, in our years together as ags that the current ags are following.

[Andy Beshear]

I'd like to think we were really good lawyers. It might have also been the violations of the law were so significant and still are.

[Bob Ferguson]

Well, you know, it's interesting during the time when I would meet with the team in my office during those days and something would happen from the federal government with. And I became a habit of mine to ask the team, do you think that the Trump administration had lawyers look at this executive order before signing it? Because it was that level sometimes of Keystone Cops of what they were signing and putting out there, which, hey, full credit to the legal teams, did fantastic work. But even they would say there were times when these executive orders were so sloppy that we were able to capitalize on that in the courts. And so I think that certainly helped us during our time.

[Andy Beshear]

Another thing that we both did as ags was file these opioid lawsuits.

[Bob Ferguson]

Oh, yeah.

[Andy Beshear]

Going after companies that sent thousands upon thousands of pills into very small communities. And we all saw the devastation that it caused. But this last year, we saw nationwide, an almost 30% decrease in drug overdose deaths. I know that's something you're real proud of, your work in those cases.

[Bob Ferguson]

Well, look, Governor, you helped lead on that, number one. I want to start with that. I mean, I just really appreciate your leadership on those issues, and we were happy to help on that as well in Washington State. And you're right, it's been so positive to see the resources we earned from those cases, holding powerful actors accountable for what they did and then investing those dollars into communities and into getting folks the treatment that they need to deal with a real crisis in their lives. And we're seeing those same kind of numbers in Washington State as well. And it's deeply rewarding to see that we're playing, I think, a role in getting things turned around. But again, that's that role as you've got to, as if you're going to be an attorney general, take on the powerful interests who aren't playing by the rules. And this was, I think, a classic case of that that was impacting people all across the country.

[Andy Beshear]

You're listening to the Andy Beshear podcast. Our guest Bob Ferguson, the governor of Washington. Let's talk about your time as governor.

[Bob Ferguson]

All right.

[Andy Beshear]

So you just got through your first legislative session.

[Bob Ferguson]

I survived it. Yeah.

[Andy Beshear]

Congratulations.

[Bob Ferguson]

Thank you.

[Andy Beshear]

I was once told by a former Republican governor that the two greatest words of any language ever created were signed I which means the end the legislative session. But. But one area that you worked on and had some success in, among others, is, is public safety.

[Bob Ferguson]

Absolutely.

[Andy Beshear]

Tell us about your accomplishment.

[Bob Ferguson]

Well, this was. Thanks for asking about that because in my campaign for governor and by the way, I just will mention I know people think of Washington state as a deep blue state. Perhaps you know, most counties in Washington state are deep red. To be clear, the last time there had been open seat for governor in Washington state, the election was decided by two and a half percentage points. So our elections can be quite close in Washington state. So we had a serious campaign in our hand and a very serious opponent. One of my campaign promises and we ran TV ads on this was Washington state ranks last 50th per capita in number of law enforcement officers. We have. Look, that's not okay. And so I ran a TV ad that said, hey, I've got a promise that we're going to create this grant program of 100 million bucks for local jurisdictions to draw upon help hire more law enforcement officers, hiring bonuses, increase salaries. How are they want to best utilize it? And I was proud we got that done in a tough budget time with our budget was a real challenge in Washington state. We had a real shortfall to despite that though, we got that $100 million across the finish line and that's going to make a difference for public safety all across our state. So big issue, big campaign promise. And just felt, look, I said many times during the budget negotiations with the legislature non negotiable, I'm not signed a budget without it. And we got it done.

[Andy Beshear]

I believe nationally one of the reasons that the Democratic party has lost faith, has lost the faith of a lot of Americans is is they feel like we're distracted, that we are not focused on their everyday concerns, that before they start thinking about other things that may be really important to them, they're worried about their job, they're worried about their next doctor's appointment, they're worried about the roads and bridges they drive every day, the school they drop their kids off at and whether they feel safe in their community. And if we don't focus on those issues, if we don't own them and prove to People that, that they are the most important things that we're going to work on every day. Then I think people look in other directions.

[Bob Ferguson]

Yes, I think that's exactly right. And that's why I've tried to use sort of the bully pulpit that I have as governor to articulate exactly that message. You know, in my inaugural dress, I talked about, hey, we need to do more when it comes to law enforcement. We also need to maybe one thing I would add to that list you had, which I think covers it pretty well, is also show that, hey, our government can be more efficient, more effective, that we can build things, we can get things done, we can be more responsive. You know, I know our colleague Josh Shapiro in Pennsylvania. You know, he's really been streamlining permitting processes. I'm taking a page from that book. We now are adopting a policy in Washington state that if we're late on getting you your permit to build or to get a license, you don't pay for it. That's on us. Because guess what, if there was a delay, that's costing you money.

[Andy Beshear]

Because Democrats can be the party of business.

[Bob Ferguson]

Absolutely.

[Andy Beshear]

And of small business, especially when we have a president doing on again, off again, reciprocal, across the board, industry specific and now company specific tariffs that are tearing apart our economy.

[Bob Ferguson]

And on those tariffs, that's a classic example. So there was a lawsuit brought by Democratic ags, as you know, right in this strange court back in, back in D.C. this international trade court that I'm not too familiar with. But one thing I decided to do was pull together a coalition. Washington state, being a very trade dependent state, we brought together a coalition of businesses, labor unions, workers, community leaders, elected officials to file a brief with that court to talk about in Washington state what the harm would be with all those folks all across our state. So I think that's an example of, hey, we can work together, bring together labor and business because those tariffs, it's a great example, devastating, I know, in my state and across the country. But the impacts on jobs, the impact on businesses, the impact on our economy, we just can't have it. It's chaos. And so getting that voice out there before the court was really important.

[Andy Beshear]

Talk to us a little bit about the potential Medicaid cuts and what that would mean for Washington.

[Bob Ferguson]

Man. Well, just to set the stage a bit, in Washington state, about 28% of our budget, state budget comes from the federal government. I don't know what is in Kentucky, but that's 20% here. And a key example of that is Medicaid. That the bulk of our Medicaid funding comes from the federal government. And so for us, a cut of what the House, for example, adopted, the Senate were to adopt that, that would mean about a $2 billion cut to Medicaid. And Washington state, just folks losing access to health care, which is.

[Andy Beshear]

And folks providing the health care, losing their jobs.

[Bob Ferguson]

Bingo. And you read my mind, because the next sentence I was going to say was we would literally have hospitals closing in our urban and rural areas in our state. And it's just so maddening, honestly, to have somebody in the White House and Republicans in Congress who just are willing, for the sake of tax breaks, for the wealthiest Americans, to turn their backs on so many Washingtonians, folks from your state, Americans all across our country, who desperately need that coverage. And so, look, we're going to do everything we can to fight that and resist it. But, you know, it just goes to how important these elections are. Midterms coming up are just critically important, but the impact on us would be dramatic. We're putting together work groups in my office and stakeholders to say, hey, what would our options be if we really saw that level of cuts, which would be devastating. How do we even begin to grapple with that?

[Andy Beshear]

This is the Andy Beshear podcast. Our guest, Bob Ferguson. As we're talking through Medicaid, that's only one part of what's going on right now. There's also the potential change in snap, which puts hundreds of millions of dollars of costs on both of our states, as well as attempts to push even more of what the federal government currently pays for. And I guess that some people say, well, but the federal government needs to balance its budget, but the bill doing it adds $3 trillion.

[Bob Ferguson]

Incredible.

[Andy Beshear]

And so not only does it not accomplish what it started out to do, but we actually have to balance our budgets. And it could be, I think people need to know, painful.

[Bob Ferguson]

Absolutely. So Washington, this year, in our session, you know, we had a $16 billion budget shortfall. I'll spare you the details on how we got there, but that's where we're at. Because I had to tell Washingtonians all the time, we're not like the federal government. We have to balance that budget and make some tough decisions. But the federal government, in making these, you know, these cuts on SNAP and Medicaid, the profound impacts on individuals in our states would truly be profound. And again, offer tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. I mean, that is where this is going, which is why they're just racking up the debt for future generations. Your kids My kids, our listeners. Right. Their kids as well. And so it's deeply, deeply troubling and trying to grapple with that. You know, the challenges as a new governor, you know, learning the ropes a little bit. You know, that chaos that's coming from the federal government is, presents some real challenges for us.

[Andy Beshear]

And we like to end these, these interviews with something a little lighter.

[Bob Ferguson]

I like it.

[Andy Beshear]

The goal is for people to, to, to process what's going on out there, but, but then hopefully feel a little lighter going into their next week.

[Bob Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Andy Beshear]

And so we often ask people what their secret superpower is. So I will say for me, cooking the Thanksgiving turkey, we just had Matt Meyer in here and apparently he makes the world's best smoothies. So it doesn't have to be food. But what's a talent that you have that people don't know about?

[Bob Ferguson]

Man, A talent I have that people don't know about. That'd be a tough one. I definitely don't cook the Thanksgiving Day. My wife would acknowledge that I'm no help there. We need you around our house for Thanksgiving next time. Superpower I have, I guess maybe what I can do is I've got twins, as you know. You, of course have met my kids, Jack and Katie, who are now older than you last saw them. They're juniors in high school. And so maybe it's a combination of. I can still keep up with my son. He's become a big mountain climber now, so I'm 60 now, so I can keep up with him as we scramble up peaks. And the other is my daughter is a big fast pitch softball player and she's a pitcher. And so I catch her for her training. I catch her and her increasingly fast fastball and curves and drops and change ups. And so I avoid getting hurt for the most part. Andy, that's impressive. So maybe it's those two things combined are a bit of a. Yeah.

[Andy Beshear]

Having a son that is a baseball player and a pitcher, that is hugely impressive.

[Bob Ferguson]

You know how that works. But honestly, those are two of my favorite things I get to do is being out in the backcountry with my son and like I said, watching my daughter play, but also catching her. It's pitcher, catcher, there's a, it's a bonding thing, you know, that, that you have with your kid that, you know, I appreciate. We've been doing it for years and, and she's hoping to play some college softball. So it's, it's, it's great memories as well.

[Andy Beshear]

I'm just impressed they'll still talk to you.

[Bob Ferguson]

It's so far so good.

[Andy Beshear]

Bob. Thanks for being on the show.

[Bob Ferguson]

Hey, great seeing you.

[Andy Beshear]

I hope you've enjoyed this episode of the Andy Beshear Podcast. On location, no frills. Just two great interviews with two new governors. Both Matt Meyer and Bob Ferguson are great public servants, and it's good to hear about their secret superpowers, as well as the fact that Bob is both an internationally ranked chess player and a mountain climber. We are lucky to have Democratic governors like them serving our country. And in the episodes to come, you're going to have Tim Walsh, you're going to have Wes Moore. We've got great guests coming up, and when we get back to the studio, we'll make sure the Johns return for their normal segment. And I know everybody's wanting to see will Lila or Brittany make fun of me a little bit more. But I hope you're ready for this week to come. I know the world's crazy out there. I know it seems very chaotic, but know that there's a lot of people out there trying to do the right thing, trying to stand up for the rule of law. And I'm glad we got to hear from two of them today. Take care, everybody. Thanks for tuning in. Be sure to subscribe at Andy Beshear Podcast on all major social media platforms.