Primed for 2026: Meet Maine's Highly Contested Governor's Race Candidates

Summary

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Podcast Summary:

Andy Beshear Podcast – “Primed for 2026: Meet Maine's Highly Contested Governor's Race Candidates”
Host: Andy Beshear
Date: February 19, 2026

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Episode Overview

This jam-packed episode features five major Democratic candidates in Maine’s high-stakes 2026 governor’s race. Host Andy Beshear sits down with each candidate—Shanna Bellows, Angus King III, Hannah Pingree, Troy Jackson, and Dr. Nirav Shah—to explore their backgrounds, values, campaign priorities, and visions for Maine. The episode centers on authentic conversations about leadership, working-class experience, affordability, health care, housing, civil rights, climate—and how Democratic governors can respond to a tumultuous national political context and push back against policies from the Trump administration. The candidates offer both personal stories and practical policy ideas, giving voters a deep dive into one of the nation’s most closely watched gubernatorial primaries.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Shanna Bellows – Secretary of State, Former ACLU Director, State Senator

Segment Begins: [02:50]

Background & Motivation

• Grew up working-class in rural Maine (“didn't have electricity or running water until she was in the fifth grade”) ([02:50]).
• Career of public service: Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, ACLU of Maine, state senator, Secretary of State.

Connecting Across the Aisle

• “I knocked on 10,075 doors my first race… we have more in common than divides us.” – Shanna Bellows ([04:55])
• Emphasizes authenticity, cultural connection, and “no permanent enemies, just permanent principles” ([05:30]).

Civil Rights and ICE

• As ACLU head, pushed back on federal abuses and ICE raids:
  “Operation Catch of the Day… is just grotesque. Immigrants, refugees, asylum seekers, they're our friends, our neighbors, and to dehumanize them in that way is just horrible.” ([07:27])
• Refused to authorize undercover plates for ICE: “In a democracy, there are no secret police.” ([08:20])

Election Security

• Led a coalition to protect personal voter data from DOJ:
  “I said, go jump in the Gulf of Maine. And I recruited Republican and Democratic secretaries of state to join me. We have a 27 state coalition fighting back.” ([09:27])

Affordability & Working-Class Roots

• “I don’t need a focus group to learn how to talk to Trump voters. They’re in my family.” ([10:57])
• Served as chair of Labor and Housing Committee, working on housing, taxes, and healthcare.

Vision for Maine’s Future

• Economic growth, top-tier education, rural healthcare, and protecting Maine’s identity and pride ([11:59]).

Campaign Distinction & Superpowers

• Experience fighting Trump, working-class roots, and winning tough races ([13:12]).
• Notable moment: “I’m a speed reader… I also won the Senate bass fishing tournament.” ([14:14])

Campaign Info

• “bellowsformaine.com” & active on social media ([15:08]).

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2. Angus King III – Entrepreneur, Housing & Renewable Energy Leader

Segment Begins: [15:43]

Background & Motivation

• Decades building affordable housing and clean energy initiatives across six states.
• Cites need for “new perspective and a new approach”—not a career politician ([16:26]).

People-Focused Approach

• Sees two “chasms”:
  1. Between “people and politics”—everyday concerns vs. political noise
  2. Between “policy and practice”—the gap between intent and reality ([16:26])

Navigating Legacy

• Recognizes both benefits and pressures of famous name (son of Senator Angus King):
  “The name on the back of your jersey doesn't make a damn bit of difference when you're out there doing the work.” ([19:27])

Housing Crisis

• “Maine is about 80,000 units short on housing.” ([23:15])
• Stresses streamlining permitting, supporting new construction, and workforce development.

Education & Workforce

• Wants to move from the “bottom” back to “top 10 in the country” for schools ([25:13]).
• Focused on vocational training and dignity of skilled trades.

Economic Development

• “Maine last year was ranked 45th on business friendliness… we can do a lot more to help them grow.” ([25:13])

Values & Motivation

• “The why is… how do you make a difference for people's lives?” ([27:28])
• Describes resilience with hands-on story: “I had to go up and shovel manure from 7 o’clock at night to 5 o’clock the next morning to make sure the machine kept running.” ([28:43])

National Stakes

• “Democratic governors are where good things are going to happen. Given what the Trump administration is doing right now…” ([29:04])
• Argues for “opening up the tent” and electability appeal for the general election.

Campaign Info

• “angusforgovernor.com” ([30:55])

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3. Hannah Pingree – Former Speaker of the House, Policy Innovator

Segment Begins: [32:25]

Background & Approach

• Lifelong Mainer; led at all levels from school board to policy innovation office.
• Grew up on small offshore island (population 400): “You literally have to take a ferry to get there.” ([35:20])

Community Response to ICE

• Praises Maine’s collective response: “People were standing up for their neighbors… clergy members who created a huge barricade [to protect factory workers from ICE].” ([33:25])

Youth Engagement & Leadership

• “I ran for office… at 26, became speaker at 30.” ([36:30])
• Advocates for young leaders: “Young people have never been more needed or more urgently important in our political process.” ([36:45])

Affordability Crisis

• “Families are really struggling… we have a lot of people who moved to Maine during COVID… If we don’t get [housing and healthcare] right, Maine will not be a place that young people can thrive.” ([38:44])
• Highlights risks of rising private equity in real estate and hospitals.

Policy Solutions

• Statewide housing plan; supports a public health insurance option; investments in primary care and childcare.
• “Governors are really having to lead the way.” ([41:15])

Vision for Maine

• Retaining young people, supporting innovation and small business, and investing in rural areas:
  “My vision as governor is… we have to really stoke that bright future for Maine by solving challenges like housing that people can afford, high quality education, jobs especially in rural areas.” ([41:23])

Relationship with Current Governor

• Has worked with Janet Mills, but would “pass a bill giving our tribal nations sovereignty” ([44:30]).

Campaign Info

• “hannaforgovernor.com” ([45:49])

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4. Troy Jackson – Senate President, Fifth-Generation Logger, Union Champion

Segment Begins: [47:56]

Background & Working-Class Identity

• Fifth-generation logger (“My father… was working, you know, 80 hours a week or more”) ([49:26]).
• Emphasizes class solidarity: “I'm not from the right or from the left, I'm from the bottom.” ([51:43])

Fighting for Voice & Fairness

• Saw his father silenced at work, fueling Troy’s drive (“a big part of what this campaign is about is I don't think working-class people have to put up with that.”) ([50:55])

Government for the People

• “I grew up thinking that government was supposed to work for people that played by the rules… but when I really needed government to work for me and my colleagues in the woods, it didn't.” ([52:18])
• Ran for office to fix this, fought “power and influence” in Augusta.

Taking on Big Pharma

• On drug prices: “Prescription drugs are the exact same [in Canada] but for some odd reason as soon as they cross into Maine, they're not safe anymore. And that's obviously just bullshit… greed and lies.” ([54:01])
• Advocates for state-level action against pharma lawsuits: “If our argument is we're going to be sued, we're always going to lose.” ([54:01])

Affordability & Working Family Agenda

• Legislative record includes expanding universal school meals, childcare, nursing home funding, and strong union ties.
• “We can do real tax reform for Mainers. There's so much going on that the state really needs to jump into.” ([57:59])
• Calls for progressive tax changes and property tax relief.

Campaign Distinction

• Only candidate with deep rural roots, union leadership, “winning state senate races in the Trump 17 point districts.” ([58:12])

Campaign Info

• “jacksonformaine.com” ([60:44])

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5. Dr. Nirav Shah – Public Health Leader, Former CDC Director of Maine

Segment Begins: [62:03]

Background & Motivation

• Medical doctor and lawyer; led public health in Illinois before Maine CDC.
• Instrumental in COVID-19 response.

State Leadership vs. Federal Inaction

• “In this moment, the way in which our health, our safety, and our rights will be protected is through state governments and the governors who lead them.” ([64:04])
• States will have to lead on vaccines, climate protection, and civil rights as the “federal government… has picked up their ball and gone home.”

ICE & Law Enforcement Overreach

• Advocates strong response to federal incursions:
  “I think all states should be considering… evaluating the consequences of violation of rights on the part of federal law enforcement. This includes… limits of qualified immunity.” ([65:41])

Healthcare Access

• “What I hear most often is concerns about healthcare and… affordability.” ([68:01])
• Highlights rural maternity care crisis and hospital closures:
  “If you are considering moving to a rural town… you are that much less likely to move there if there's not health care and that repair can take decades to fix.” ([71:19])

Addressing Affordability & Housing

• Proposes state-backed help with down payments; “all gas, no brakes” on missing-middle housing construction ([71:36]).

Philosophy: Extreme Pragmatism

• “I’m proud of being an extreme pragmatist… The main question for me is, does it work?” ([73:50])
• Heterodox, solution-based approach.

Campaign Info

• “shawformaine.com” ([74:51])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Shanna Bellows: “No permanent friends, no permanent enemies, just permanent principles.” ([05:30])
• Angus King III: “The name on the back of your jersey doesn't make a damn bit of difference when you're out there doing the work.” ([19:27])
• Hannah Pingree: “Politics was really always connected to public service… how my community worked.” ([35:26])
• Troy Jackson: “I'm not from the right or from the left, I'm from the bottom.” ([51:43])
• Troy Jackson (on Big Pharma): “And that's obviously just bullshit… greed and lies.” ([54:01])
• Dr. Nirav Shah: “I’m proud of being an extreme pragmatist… when I think about policy… does it work?” ([73:50])

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• Introduction/Overview: [00:38] – [02:50]
• Shanna Bellows interview: [02:50] – [15:37]
• Angus King III interview: [15:43] – [31:18]
• Hannah Pingree interview: [32:25] – [47:48]
• Troy Jackson interview: [47:56] – [60:53]
• Dr. Nirav Shah interview: [62:03] – [74:54]

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a thorough, empathetic exploration of what’s at stake in Maine’s gubernatorial contest—from protecting democracy and civil rights, to solving the affordability and healthcare crisis foremost in voters’ minds. Each candidate reveals personal stories that connect authentically with listeners. The common theme: Maine’s future relies on bold, principled, and pragmatic leadership in a state (and national) moment of consequence.

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Campaign Links:

• Shanna Bellows
• Angus King III
• Hannah Pingree
• Troy Jackson
• Dr. Nirav Shah

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Transcript

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[Andy Beshear]

Welcome to the Andy Beshear Podcast. We have a great episode for you in this season two called prime for 2026. We talk to major Democratic candidates in some of the biggest races across the country. Today we have a packed episode we with five major candidates for governor of Maine. You're going to get to hear from each of them. For a longer version, just go wherever you download your podcast or check us out on YouTube at Andy Beshear Podcast. And while you're there, please subscribe. And big news. Yesterday I announced that my first book, go and do likewise, is now out for pre order. It'll be out September 22nd in hardcover, an ebook and an audiobook. But go wherever you purchase your books and make sure you reserve a copy right now with that, let's get to it. This is a packed episode where you're going to really get to know these candidates.

[John Rabinowitz]

So Andy, I hear you have some incredibly exciting news.

[Andy Beshear]

I do. Yesterday we announced that my very first book called Go and Do likewise is going to be available September 22nd in hardcover, audio and ebook. But people can pre order it right now.

[John Rabinowitz]

Where can they pre order?

[Andy Beshear]

Anywhere that they currently get their books that can be online or in any of the stores. It's a book about reclaiming faith to do good in public life, to lift people up instead of kick them while they're down. And I take some people to task that I think are using faith for all the wrong reasons.

[John Rabinowitz]

So, Governor, podcast host and now published author.

[Andy Beshear]

Well, I thought I had a little bit extra time on my hands, but this was actually a great experience for me. You know, I talk about what it's like to govern through Covid, the amazing things I see from people after devastating disasters like tornadoes and floods. I even talk about losing a close friend of mine in a mass shooting. It's a very personal book, but I think it's one that will also lift people up and you'll be ready to take on the world after.

[John Rabinowitz]

Well, this is exciting news. What's even more exciting is that now he can't give me grief for being the only person Hyping up things on the podcast.

[Andy Beshear]

That's right, Go and Do likewise is available for pre order right now. It'll be out September 22nd. Make sure you reserve your copy. Our next guest on the Andy Beshear podcast is Shanna Bellows. She grew up in Hancock, Maine, as the daughter of a carpenter and and a greenhouse worker who knew what it was like to struggle to make ends meet. They didn't have electricity or running water until she was in the fifth grade, but her parents never let her family feel poor. After college, she volunteered with the Peace Corps in Panama and AmeriCorps and Nashville, Tennessee. She returned home to be the director of the ACLU of Maine. In 2016, she won a state Senate race in a Trump district that she then won two additional times. She ran on things that are common to everybody. Being able to afford a good life with good schools for your kids and access to affordable health care. She currently serves as Maine's 50th and first female Secretary of State. She worked to modernize our government with programs like online appointments, automatic voter registration, electronic lien, and titling safe and secure online voter registration. And now she is running for governor because Maine needs leaders with a vision to meet the moment. Thanks for joining the podcast.

[Shanna Bellows]

I'm such a big fan. It's such a delight to be here with you because we need to talk to everybody. And I grew up working class. You've shown you can win a red state and communicate with the working class with regular people.

[Andy Beshear]

It's really important so we share that in common. I've won three statewide races in a Trump +30 state. At least this last time around. You've won in a Senate district before becoming Secretary of state that Donald Trump won and you did it three times. Tell us, because I get asked this question a lot, how you think you reach across the aisle, you connect and you show Democrats that we can win anywhere.

[Shanna Bellows]

I think it's about being real, right? Being truly authentic. And I knocked on 10,075 doors my first race and I ask people like, what matters to you? And you know, we have more in common than divides us. And I think whether it's the churches we grew up in or the country music that we listen to, I think sometimes it's a cultural connection as much as anything.

[Andy Beshear]

Secretary, I've got a question. When, when you look at the decisions you're going to have to make that are going to be intensely divisive in some cases, how do you prepare for moments like that?

[Shanna Bellows]

So when I was head of The ACLU of Maine, we had a saying, no permanent friends, no permanent enemies, just permanent principles. And what we meant by that is you can always find common ground with people, right? And I think, you know, agree to disagree, perhaps in a particular moment, but what's most important is adhering to principle and, you know, standing up and doing the right thing, even when it's hard. And I think that doing the right thing, even when it's hard, will carry you through. And I'm curious, you know, Andy, do you have advice for those moments that are divisive? How do you bring people together? Because I think this is what the country needs right now. Right.

[Andy Beshear]

Well, I love one thing that you said, and it actually wasn't the permanent friends. It was no permanent enemies. Because if you get yourself so worked up when somebody comes after you politically or somebody opposes you on one thing, you could foreclose being able to get that next big thing done. It's that idea that it's not about you, it's about the people that you serve. And if you think these jobs make you taller, smarter, or better looking, they eat you up and spit you out. And you typically aren't as good as you want to be going in. But I think the other is to be steady. If you're always pro main before you are pro this party or pro that group, I think that'll always guide you, and that's what the people you serve care about. Tell us about how your experience fighting for civil rights and voting access, how that has helped shape your response to the moment you're in right now, when ICE has been surged in domain while people can apparently be arrested in a new process that would change due process forever. And. Or the idea that ICE agents think they can barge into your home without a judicial warrant.

[Shanna Bellows]

Well, I was head of the ACLU of Maine for a long time, and we had a practice of challenging abuses of power by the federal government or by state government. And I think what we saw in Maine, they called it Operation Catch of the Day, which is just grotesque. Immigrants, refugees, asylum seekers, they're our friends, our neighbors, and to dehumanize them in that way is just horrible. But what we saw to your point, the idea that ice, without even going to the court for a warrant, could go into your homes and snatch people off the streets. We saw them arrest and imprison over 200 Mainers, and some of them were perfectly legally here. So I'll just give you one example. I run the Bureau of Motor Vehicles in Maine. We've modernized. We've seen, set up online appointments and new online services and made things easier and better for our customers.

[Andy Beshear]

If you can run a dmv, you can run anything.

[Shanna Bellows]

And people like the BMV here. But, you know, U.S. customs and Border Protection came to the BMV and asked for undercover plates. These are the confidential plates. They look like civilian plates. And we said, you know what? In a democracy, there are no secret police. You can have your government plates, your law enforcement plates that show that you're part of government before you go out and arrest and detain people. So we said no. And, you know, I had some Republicans tell me, thank you, because those fundamental constitutional principles that are in the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights, that Declaration of Independence that's celebrating our 250th anniversary this year, those are shared values, or at least they should be. Unfortunately, the Trump administration has thrown a lot of them out the window.

[Andy Beshear]

I get asked a lot about the upcoming elections because people are nervous and they're worried about whether we're going to have safe and secure elections. And I tell them I think we are for a number of reasons. One is our strong secretaries of state. So tell our listeners what you're doing to make sure there's going to be a fair election in Maine.

[Shanna Bellows]

Well, we're really proud of our elections in Maine. We're consistently at the top of the nation in voter participation, and we're standing up. So when the Department of Justice came after voter data, they're trying to create this national database of every American's personal sensitive voter information. I said, go jump in the Gulf of Maine. And I meant it. And then I recruited Republican and Democratic secretaries of state to join me. We have a 27 state coalition fighting back to protect that data. Now, we're in court right now that Justice Department is suing us. But they've lost in California and Oregon. We think they're going to lose in Maine, too. So, unfortunately, you know what we're seeing more recently? With the federal government seizing ballots in Fulton County, Georgia, recently, we're having to make new preparations. How do we safeguard against federal interference in our election? Because the states are sovereign. The Constitution places the states, not the federal government, in charge of our elections. And one of the reasons I'm running for governor is that I think we need really strong leaders, leaders like yourself, who will always put our states first, put Maine first, but will also stand up and fight back if people's constitutional rights or freedoms or their needs are not taken care of by an abusive federal government.

[Andy Beshear]

One Thing that comes up constantly in everything we talk about now is affordability. So when you look at Maine, that's something I'm sure you hear every day. So if you could share with us the thoughts on that.

[Shanna Bellows]

Well, I don't need a focus group to learn how to talk to Trump voters. They're in my family. I represented them in the state Senate. And I grew up working class. My father being a carpenter. I worked my whole way through high school and college. So, you know, the cost of housing, property taxes, the cost of electricity, we've got some of the highest rates in the country in Maine, the cost of health care, it's really hurting families. And so the experiences I have growing up, but also I chaired the labor and Housing Committee in the state Senate. We got a lot of work done for Mainers, for small businesses, for entrepreneurs. I think those issues are people want strength, fighting back against Trump and vision for how we improve our state and, and create a better future for our kids and our grandkids and every single working Mainer in our state.

[Andy Beshear]

Fast forward five years if you're elected governor of Maine, first term is coming to an end. Where do you want things to be?

[Shanna Bellows]

I hope Maine is at the top of the nation in economic development so that every small business owner and entrepreneur can follow their dreams and be successful. I hope we go from the bottom quartile education to number one in the nation and educational opportunity and achievement for our young people. I hope that we have made sure that we protected our rural hospitals and our rural healthcare clinics and that if people need access to primary care or they need to have a baby safely, they can do so anywhere in Maine. And I hope that we've continued to promote, maintain Maine pride all across the country, because Maine is our state motto is dirigo. We lead. We're the best state in the nation. So those are some of my hopes and dreams for Maine in the moment. Right now, we're fighting to protect voting rights. We're fighting to protect our state from ICE and really build a vision for the future. Folks can check it out atbellows for Maine.com is my website.

[Andy Beshear]

When I ran for governor, it was three of us in the primary. You have a huge primary. Tell us what differentiates you, why people should gravitate towards you and support your campaign.

[Shanna Bellows]

So, three things. I'm the only candidate in the race with experience, standing up to Trump multiple times and winning. I've been doxed, swatted, threatened, and I've never backed down. Two, I'm of the working class from the working class. So on these affordability issues, I have experienced experience to deliver on affordability. And then three, winning. I am one of the only Democrats in the state that's won a Trump district three times and bring that experience to this statewide race. It's ranked choice voting. So on the stump, I always say, here's the good news to Maine voters. You can vote for all of us. I just want to be your number one. And if I'm not your number one, I want to be your number two. But I think we're going to win because of those three things. That strength in fighting back against Trump, experience on affordability, and experience winning a Trump district three times.

[Andy Beshear]

We often ask our guests what their secret superpower is. What is something about you that you're really good at that no one knows?

[Shanna Bellows]

Oh, that no one knows. I'm a speed reader. I can read. Extraordinary.

[Andy Beshear]

That is helpful.

[Troy Jackson]

Wow.

[Andy Beshear]

I can cook the Thanksgiving turkey better than anyone I know, but it's only good once a year. Speed reading would be incredibly helpful every day.

[Shanna Bellows]

I also won the Senate bass fishing tournament when I was in the state Senate, but folks knew about that.

[Andy Beshear]

You all have a Senate bass fishing tournament?

[Shanna Bellows]

Well, they stopped it after I won. I think they were so shocked you shut it down.

[Andy Beshear]

How much smack did people talk about this before they went out?

[Shanna Bellows]

A lot. They did not think that Shannon Bellows was going to win the that bass fishing tournament. But, you know, I think my superpower is doing hard things. Whether it's bash bass fishing or standing up to Trump, I'm your candidate.

[Andy Beshear]

Well, Secretary Bellows, tell our listeners how they can follow your campaign.

[Shanna Bellows]

Great. They should check it out. It's easy. My last name? Bellows. Bellows for Maine.com. that's our website. You can find us on social media. Whatever your social media preferences, we're probably on it and look forward to staying in touch. And thank you so much. It's such a pleasure. Thank you for all you do, not only for Kentucky, but the whole nation and sort of leading the way on how to lead with your values across party lines. It's really phenomenal.

[Andy Beshear]

Shanna, thanks for joining the podcast.

[Shanna Bellows]

Thank you.

[Andy Beshear]

Our next guest on the Andy Beshear podcast is Angus King iii. He spent the last three decades working on innovative ways to solve problems and making people's lives better, building affordable housing for thousands of families across six states, delivering clean energy across the country and the world. He knows that with a fresh perspective and a different approach, with a focus on common sense and common ground, that he can Help build a better Maine. Angus, thanks for joining the podcast.

[Angus King III]

Governor. It's great to be here with you. Thank you.

[Andy Beshear]

So you are running for governor of Maine in a big field. Tell me what motivates you and what makes you stand out.

[Angus King III]

Yes, sir, it is a big field and with real good people. I would want to make that point up front. I feel the Democrats are actually very lucky here in Maine to have such good people running. But there are some real differences. Here's why I'm running is that fundamentally we've got some serious challenges in Maine that feel like to me, you've got to start working on in fundamentally different ways, housing, heat, health care, schools, economic development, and frankly our politics. And I think there's a lot of work that we've got to do. And what was being offered by kind of the same, same folks who'd been there for a very long time. Again, my opponents have all been in state government for almost 20 plus years. And not to take anything away from that, but I think now is the time for a new perspective and a new approach. I've spent my life, as you mentioned, out there building things, building clean energy projects, building housing, creating companies, creating good jobs. And I decided it was time for somebody who could help bridge a couple of different chasms in our state. The first is a chasm between people and politics. Right now it just feels like there's this huge gap between what a lot of the noise is in our political conversation versus where everyday people are just trying to get through their lives. And I thought if I could bring a focus onto those fundamental issues of heat, housing, health care, economic development, high wages, how do we focus on those things that people really think about every single day and less on the items that divide us? I thought that was really important. And somewhere where I had something to offer. The second chasm is this gap between politics. Sorry, between policy and practice. There's often a huge gap between what policymakers think is the right thing, often well intentioned, and. And how it actually plays out in the real world. And I thought I could provide some role of interpreter in chief, if nothing else, and really help make life better and easier for the people who are growing jobs, who are teaching our kids, who are getting the job done here in our state.

[Andy Beshear]

So I'll tell you firsthand, a focus on people's everyday concerns is not only a winner in an election, but it can help you be a really good governor. So we don't just share that approach in common. We also share going into an election with a Famous last name. You in Maine politics with your father. I certainly in Kentucky with mine. But we are our own people. We bring different perspectives in. So how do you approach that race, knowing that there are things you're going to want people to think? Yes, my dad and I, we're close. We both agree on this. But I bring my own approach to addressing these problems.

[Angus King III]

Yeah, you're absolutely right. And we don't even share just a last name. It's our first name, too.

[Dr. Nirav Shah]

So.

[Angus King III]

It'S a real challenge. And as you know, it cuts both ways. But I'll tell you, it's a lot like people ask, isn't it an advantage to have your dad be the senator? And my answer is always, yes, of course it's an advantage, but not in the way that sometimes people think. And I suspect you've had a similar experience. It's like asking Wayne Gretzky's kid when he's about to step out on the ice, do you think it helped you that Wayne Gretzky was your dad? And the answer is yes, but not when you're out on the ice. You've still got to go out and skate and shoot the puck and grind it out in the corner. And the name on the back of your jersey doesn't make a damn bit of difference when you're out there doing the work. But I feel like. And you probably feel the same way, I. I was lucky enough to grow up at the dinner table and the breakfast table and every other table with one of America's great public servants.

[John Rabinowitz]

Amen.

[Angus King III]

And I learned from him about the importance of integrity, the importance about keeping your word, and the ability. My dad is an independent, and so the ability to bring people together, to focus on bipartisan solutions, to listen to all different sides of a problem before you go in there and get it done, and. And then ultimately going and getting something done and being accountable for the dollars and the results.

[John Rabinowitz]

Angus, this is John Rabinowitz.

[Angus King III]

Those kinds of lessons, you know, you can't replace those. And I feel lucky every day.

[John Rabinowitz]

Sorry about that. Angus, this is John Rabinowitz. I'm really excited to talk to you as well. And I ask Andy this all the time. We've had some previous guests whose father had been in politics. Did you always know you were going to get into politics? Was it a calling that you had, or was now the time?

[Angus King III]

Yeah, it's sort of a combo. I always thought about service as something that was important. I've been very fortunate. I've had great education and great political sort of mentors in my life. I worked for Mike Dukakis and Bill Clinton when I was younger and grew up sort of in their orbits and obviously grew up with my dad. And so I'm a strong believer in the importance of public service and the importance of giving back. But you never know where you're going to give back or where the opportunity is. But right now just felt just totally crucial to try and find a way to contribute to the dialogue. And I was looking around, I'd had very, you know, I was very fortunate in my career and had a chance to lift my head up and say, how can I have the most impact on the most people in the most positive way? And running for governor was a real chance. Our governor for the last two terms has been terrific, but she's term limited. And I thought now was the time for someone from the outside with a new perspective who has built companies, who signed paychecks, who's sort of pulled permits and gone through all that work and knows what it's like to do all of those things with someone who had a lot to offer. So that's why I'm running right in this instant. But yes, public service has always been something that's been part of how I thought about engaging with the world.

[Andy Beshear]

You've got part of your private sector background that seems tailor made for the moment and that's your work on affordable housing. You know, I think that while the American dream starts with a job, where it lives is in a home. It's where those memories are made. And as I talk, especially to younger professionals, people in their 30s, sometimes now, people into their 40s, that inability to buy a home in or around the same age that your parents were, it's tough. It nags on you. It makes you wonder if you're, if you're winning or if you're losing. So talk about how you bring that experience to addressing the housing shortage in Maine, because it's everywhere.

[Angus King III]

Yeah, I'll tell you, you're absolutely right. It is a huge. Fundamentally, I think a lot of people, a lot of the younger people I talk to have just lost their faith in the American dream. They've just lost their belief that if you work hard and play by the rules, you, you can actually get ahead and that you can actually someday own a home. I talked with two young men the other day who said there's just no chance, even if it was something that was what you might think of as lowercase, a affordable, that they just don't know how they're ever going to get there. And it impedes young families who are trying to grow, it impedes businesses who are trying to recruit people. Maine is about 80,000 units short on housing, which may not seem like a lot, but we've only got about a million four people. And so there really is a real shortage here. And housing prices have doubled in the last seven years. And so if you're a young family trying to find a house, if you're somebody who wants to move to Maine, it's a real challenge. So I think there's a lot that the state can do. We have made it, unfortunately, relatively hard just to build anything here in Maine. And this is not dissimilar from the abundance conversation that you see across the country. And I think there's a lot that we can do to make permitting more streamlined to make it easier to support the towns that are trying to build housing, to make it easier so that the state agencies that engage on housing are less process oriented and more focused on how do you get to. Yes, so that because we've got great developers, we've got great people who want to build housing in our communities, we've got people who know how to do the work, but we've got to do more to support them and we've got to do more to build a workforce who can then go out and build those housing. That's another real shortage here in Maine and something that I'd be focused on when I'm governor.

[John Rabinowitz]

Angus, in addition to tackling the housing crisis in Maine, if elected governor, what are some other issues you would tackle?

[Angus King III]

Yeah, housing is certainly first. I would tell you education is probably second. Maine used to be in the top 10 in the country for education results and we're now toward the bottom and that's just not okay. I think we've got to make sure that every single kid is ready to read, is reading at grade level, in fourth grade, doing the math at the right level at fourth grade and then on. Because if you're falling behind, then it gets harder and harder and harder to get back on track. The second education piece that I think is really important is around training. We pretty good job preparing kids who are going to go to college to be ready for college. But for the kids who aren't going to go to college, and that's the majority of the kids who are here in Maine, I think we can do a lot more to help them go through the training, access training. And that starts all the way in middle school in many cases, so that people know what careers are available to them. We are wildly short on electricians and plumbers and truck drivers and tradespeople who do the real work of making our economy go. And I think we've not done a great job talking about the dignity of that work, the importance of that work, and making sure that Mainers are ready to fill those jobs and train for those jobs when they graduate from high school. So education is probably second and third is really about economic development. Maine last year was ranked 45th on business friendliness. And we've got to make it easier for people, people to create more jobs that ultimately bring wages up. We've got a lot of great companies, a lot of great small businesses here in Maine, but I think we can do a lot more to help them grow and develop and add the jobs that we need to keep this economy going. Again. We're a small state just like Kentucky, and as you all know, economic development really does make a huge difference in how your state develops.

[Andy Beshear]

You're listening to the Andy Beshear Podcast, our current guest, Angus King iii, running for governor of Maine. Angus we like to get beyond just the what and talk about the why on this podcast. So when things get tough, when you're in a situation where you're wondering how you're going to push through, what values do you fall back on? What's your why that motivates you in those situations?

[Angus King III]

Yeah, the why is how do you make a difference for people's lives? It is incredibly hard to get through the day to day for way too many people here in our state. We have huge numbers of people in poverty. We have huge numbers of people that are underemployed. We have huge numbers of people that can't that worry every single month about how they pay their bills. And if you think about those people and how do you make sure that all Mainers are we're reducing the anxiety in their lives. We're making it just a little bit easier to get through their day to day. I'll tell you, I've built a lot of projects in my life and every single one of them, every project dies a thousand deaths. And you really have to be focused on what is the long run, how are we going to do this? I built this renewable energy digester that took manure from about 7,000 cows and turned it into clean energy. And that project is creating jobs, lowering emissions and creating heat for thousands of people here in Maine without adding costs. But there were days, there was one night where I had to go up and shovel manure from 7 o' clock at night to 5 o' clock the next morning to make sure the machine kept running. That's not usually the job of the president of the company, but sometimes you.

[John Rabinowitz]

Just gotta putting the ball in the tee for you.

[Andy Beshear]

You're gonna be well prepared for politics. My first job was mucking horse stalls. So there you go. Tell us, tell our listeners who don't live in Maine why they should be focused on the Maine governor's race and why they should be focused on the primary.

[Angus King III]

Well, this is the same reason they're listening to your podcast, Governor. Democratic governors are where good things are going to happen. Given what the Trump administration is doing right now. They are demolishing just about everything you might care about in our country, whether it's national parks or the national debt or immigration or civil rights or higher ed or research. I mean, the list gets added to every day. And I believe that Democratic governors are where we're going to either be the first line of defense or the tip of the spear, both in terms of defense on things like health care and making sure that vaccination information is out there, but also on offense. How are we coordinating so that we're making our regional grid more effective for renewable energy? How are we doing so that we can buy pharmaceutical drugs at cheaper prices, perhaps? I think there are a lot of things where Democratic states are going to lead and it's really important. And then on the primary, look, we, I think it is critically important that we win this race, race. And with all humility, I think it's important to think about a candidate who can win in a general election. We saw what happened when we lost the general election at the presidential level. And I think it's really important to be electing Democrats who are trying to open up the tent, who are trying to expand our base to figure out how are we going to grow jobs, how are we going to focus on these funds, fundamental kitchen table economic issues. And that's what motivates me. And coming at it as an outsider, but with obviously a name that people trust, I think I've got a real opportunity in the general election. I think it's critically important we nominate people who are going to be appealing in a general campaign.

[Andy Beshear]

Tell our listeners how to follow your campaign.

[Angus King III]

Thank you. Yeah, Angus for governor is the easiest place to find it. We're on all the relevant social media sites, but if you just go to angusforgovernor.com, you'll find your way and we'll take it from there. But I welcome all your listeners and I really appreciate you having me on here today. It's been great to visit with you.

[Andy Beshear]

You've been listening to Angus King iii, running for Governor of Maine. Angus, thanks for joining the podcast.

[John Rabinowitz]

Thank you.

[Angus King III]

Great to see you, Governor. Thanks, John. Take care.

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[Andy Beshear]

Our next guest on the Andy Beshear podcast is Hannah Pingree. She is a lifelong Mainer leader and mom who knows how to get things done. Born in Belfast, she was raised on the island of North Haven, where she's led at every level. She served as main speaker of the House. She's run a small business. She's chaired her local school board, and that is a challenging job. And she has directed the Governor's Office of Policy, Innovation and the Future. From expanding access to health care and affordable housing to helping lead Maine's nation leading climate work, Hannah brings people together and delivers real results for Maine families. Hannah, thanks for joining the podcast.

[Hannah Pingree]

Governor, it is a pleasure to be here with you. Thank you so much for having me on.

[Andy Beshear]

Let's start with what Maine's going through right now. One of the states that saw an ICE surge that has seen some of these aggressive tactics and has pushed back. Tell us, tell us what that experience has been like.

[Hannah Pingree]

I mean, obviously, Governor, it has been a very difficult time in this country over the last couple of months. We've all watched what's happening out in Minnesota, but ICE came to Maine for the last couple of weeks and brought their surge here. And I will just say, you know, it was devastating for families in several of our cities. As you know, people were afraid to leave their homes. The federal government, President Trump told us they were here for criminals, but obviously we saw them targeting kids, we saw them targeting innocent families, people who were not criminals. I will say, you know this, I am so grateful to the work of governors around this country who are standing up against this president. Governor Mills has done that, as has our legislature. But really more heartening to see how, how much Maine people came together. People were standing up for their neighbors, they were delivering food, they were helping people get to work. I actually just a couple of days ago, stood at a factory, a union factory that was making union made goods here in this country, owned by my friends Ben and Whitney Waxman. They employ a number of our immigrant neighbors. And ICE was circling the parking lot, going after their employees. And what happened in Maine, people came together and said, these people need to get to work. They need to support their families. And there was a whole line of people from the community, as well as clergy members who created a huge barricade in front of the factory so that people could get into work and be protected from ice. So, you know, it's a scary time in our country. It is a devastating time on many, many fronts. But we've actually seen some wonderful. You know, what I love about Maine is people are able to come together and protect their neighbors and do the right thing. So, you know, that's, that's why I love the state. And obviously, I think that's what our country is all about as well.

[Andy Beshear]

And Hannah, John McConnell here, a question real quick. You started into public service at a young age. When did politics become personal for you?

[Hannah Pingree]

Well, I was, I grew up in a very, very small town you mentioned as an island. It's a town of 400 people.

[Andy Beshear]

Wow.

[Hannah Pingree]

And you literally have to take a ferry to get there. And in tiny towns, I'm sure this is true in Kentucky. It's certainly true in most of Maine. Everybody has to step up to be involved for the community to work. So when I was growing up, you know, my parents volunteered as EMTs. They both served on the school board, they both ran small businesses. And they weren't unique. I mean, this is sort of how everybody in my community, how things work and operate. We literally attended town meeting as students. So, you know, politics was really always connected to public service for me, it was connected to how my community worked. So, you know, when I think about public service, I think about politics. It is about how do you fix problems for your neighbors. That's, you know, that's still how my town works. And I, you know, honestly, I think that's, you know, where we are as a state right now as well.

[Andy Beshear]

We talk a lot about trying to engage the younger generation with what we're doing right now. And when I look back, back at you becoming speaker of the House, I think at 33, if I'm correct, I was 38, elected as AG, so I don't know what I was doing. You win.

[Hannah Pingree]

I was actually, I ran for office. I was elected when I was 26, and I became speaker at 30.

[Andy Beshear]

When you look at trying to get younger people involved, how would you say help find their voice?

[Hannah Pingree]

Yeah, I mean, well, obviously right now it's a pretty, pretty devastating time in our country. And, you know, we've been through some other challenging time periods. And I think, you know, when we see what's happening with our country and our politics, you can either be turned off, you know, this is so broken and damaged. There's no place for me, or you can feel some agency and urgency that my voice is needed in this mix. And, you know, I worked very hard when I was in the main state legislature to recruit young people to run for office, recruit women to run for office. And I think, you know, certainly that's whether it's school board or selectmen or all the other roles that we need to fill. I think young people have never been more needed or more urgently important in our political process. Again, I think it's important for the Democratic Party to reach out to young people. I mean, young people in my state are worried about housing they can afford. They're worried about the climate crisis, they're worried about the price of health care and childcare. So it's about making it practical for people and helping them understand that being engaged in politics in our communities, that's how we get things done. And I think it's a really important time for Democrats to engage people of all ages, but especially young people.

[Andy Beshear]

I think you've mentioned that the two biggest challenges we face as a country right now, one's the division that Donald Trump uses ice to stoke and the fear that goes along with it. The other is people call it affordability. I worry as Democrats, we always try to create one political sciencey term and then we sound like professors, but it's not being able to afford that first house. It's being worried about paying the bills. It's one paycheck away from not being able to pay your car insurance, the next doctor's appointment for yourself or your parents or your kids. Talk about how as governor of Maine, you would address those everyday challenges that people are looking for just a little help on?

[Hannah Pingree]

Yeah, Governor. Well, I mean, you've named it. When I'm out on the campaign trail, those are the. Those are the things I hear about from people. I mean, one, they strongly want governors and leaders who will stand up to President Trump, will protect our democracy, will protect the rights of, you know, women, reproductive access, protect the rights of social. Many people that are being threatened right now. So that's sort of the top issue that I hear about. But at the same time, families are really struggling. And Maine is a state that has struggled with this affordability crisis. You know, we have a lot of people who moved to Maine during COVID So I have led on issues like housing and health care, because I think if we don't get those issues right, Maine will not be a place that young people can thrive. And Maine's economy, our future is our, about engaging young people and people of all ages in our economy and in our communities. So we did a statewide housing tour. We've been out talking about the issues of housing, both how do we invest in affordable housing and affordable home ownership, but also how do we ensure that private equity. I mean, we've seen it in Maine. They're buying up mobile home parks, they're buying up apartment complexes. The next governor needs to take action to ensure that the affordable housing we have, we don't lose. Health care is another just unbelievable crisis that we're facing. And we know that President Trump is making this issue much more difficult with the cuts to Medicaid and Medicare, what he's done with the Affordable Care Act. But as governor, I know that I'm going to have to be the one to work, obviously, with the legislature and lots of communities around, how do we shore up our health care system and ensure that it is affordable. Everything. I propose a public option so that there is another option for individuals and small businesses to get access to the insurance market. It's another one where private equity is starting to come in and buy hospitals in Maine. We obviously need that to not happen. But we have a huge primary care crisis. People can't find access to just basic doctors and nurses and community health workers who can help them navigate the system. So huge investments also needed in primary care. You know, Governor, you're absolutely right. Affordability. We hear about it from child, child care issues, utility costs. It is across the board. But I have. I have led with plans on housing and health care. We're working on others as well. But we know that governors need to ensure that their states are affordable for people of all ages. And right now, the president is not helping. And so governors are really having to lead the way. So, again, thank you for your leadership.

[Andy Beshear]

When you look at your vision of the future for Maine, what would you want us to know?

[Hannah Pingree]

Well, I'm sure that Kentucky is a beautiful state, but Maine is the most wonderful state in the country. It is beautiful. We have an incredible environment.

[Andy Beshear]

She is running. She should believe that.

[Hannah Pingree]

It's true. You visited. I know. You know, we. When I was a young legislator, young people were leaving Maine in droves. We could not retain our young people. We're actually still the oldest average state by median age in the country. So we're a state where we desperately need to keep young people. But in the last couple of years, young people want to stay in Maine. They just can't find an affordable place to live or affordable childcare. So I think Maine has an incredible future in front of it. We're. We're a state where, again, we have this beautiful, clean environment. We have lots of small businesses starting, we have people who want to stay here. We got a lot of innovation happening. We have a clean environment that we're trying to protect. So my vision as governor is that, you know, we have to really stoke that bright future for Maine by solving, again, the challenges like housing that people can afford, high quality education, really focusing on jobs, especially, especially in our rural areas. You know, there's so much good stuff that can happen in Maine. And I know, and I have seen throughout my political career that people coming together, you know, even on a bipartisan basis, can make good things happen. And when I travel the state, there's not really a lot of disagreement. I mean, people talk about, you know, northern Maine is a little red, and, you know, southern Maine is blue. People want the exact same thing. They want. They want their hospital to stay open, they want quality schools. You know, they want to protect our environment. And so as governor, you know, your job is to continue to focus on that bright future. And it is about a strong economy, is about a clean environment. It is about just having optimism for the future of your state, but actually doing the work to fulfill all of the things that you promised. So I am excited to be running for governor because I think that our future is so bright. I got two kids, they are 13 and 14, and. And they really drive my passion for Maine's future. I mean, I want them to be able to stay in the state and be successful. And I know that so many people in Maine want The same for their kids and grandkids.

[Andy Beshear]

I also have two teenagers, so I'll pray for you if you'll pray for me.

[Hannah Pingree]

You're currently my son, just turned 13. It's exciting. It's exciting times.

[Andy Beshear]

Mine is 16 and driving and daughter will be there soon. Your current governor, Janet, I will see you in court. Mills is a friend of mine and I always think about if the next governor after you is of the same party. It gives you an opportunity to continue some great programs, but they're always going to lead in their own way and some policies are likely to change. So what is one thing that the current administration is doing that you think we have got to continue or even amp that up another level? And where is one area where you might differ and bring a different type of leadership?

[Hannah Pingree]

Well, Governor Beshear, I served in the legislature with Governor Mills. I have worked for her for almost the last seven years. She gave me this awesome job to be to both create this new department of the future and then run it. And that's been a tremendous opportunity and it's getting given me a really good view of what I would do in state government to continue the work on issues like housing and climate and healthcare, but also where we need to do some things differently. One of the few issues where I do disagree with the governor, she's been sort of at loggerheads with the tribes. And I have said that in my first days in office, I would pass a bill giving our tribal nations sovereignty like all the other tribes across the country. And so, you know, that's one, one area where we differ. But, but mostly I've learned a lot being a part of her administration. And I, you know, I see things where, you know, the squeaky details of how could you make government run better. Okay, if I was governor, I would do these things differently. But, you know, I mostly see areas where we can continue to make progress, we can go bigger. And I. It's been a tremendous opportunity to learn that in Herdman administration.

[Andy Beshear]

All right, as we close out, tell our listeners why they should get involved in your campaign and how they can follow it.

[Hannah Pingree]

Great. Well, again, thank you, Governor. You can follow [e-mail] I'm running a very competitive primary on June 9th. I will say I'm the candidate in the race with the most experience, the vision for Maine's future, and I think probably most importantly in this election. I mean, this is an election that is so essential for Democrats to win. And I have been traveling the state talking to all Kinds of people. I will say, you've got two kids, I've got two kids. It's a difficult decision to decide to put yourself out there and run for public office, especially in this time. But it's a time in which good people need to step up and run. My son Oscar is 13 and he was totally in favor of me running. I mean, he wanted me to run against Senator Angus King, which I obviously was not going to do. But my daughter Elsie, she was a little bit more on the fence. So she's 14. So you know, what is this going to mean for my life, Mom? And you know, she was debating it, but she's taller than me. She's five, nine, much taller. You don't know how tall I am, but I'm short. She loves basketball, she loves Caitlin Clark. She's very competitive. And eventually she's like, okay, mom, I care about these issues. I care about the future. I think you should do it, but you better win. And I will just say, no pressure. Really, really important election for Democrats to win. And so I am, you know, we are running the best campaign. We've got a lot of people on our side. We've raised the most funds. And I think it's a really important year that we run Democrats who can win. So I would love anybody to be involved in my campaign. We've got people in every county, all 16 counties of Maine. We've got lots of grassroots support, support. I'd love people to be engaged, come to Maine, help us knock on doors again. Hannaforgovenor.com we're working hard to win and.

[Andy Beshear]

We'D love your help on the Andy Beshear Podcast. You've been listening to Hannah Pingree. She is running for Governor of Maine. Hannah, thanks for joining us.

[Hannah Pingree]

Thanks again, Governor, good to see you. Thanks for your leadership.

[Andy Beshear]

Our guest on the Andy Beshear podcast is Troy Jackson. He is a fifth generation logger and he's never forgotten where he came from. Long before he ever set foot in the statehouse, Troy was putting in 80 hour weeks in the woods, running equipment, driving trucks and chopping wood while trying to make ends meet. He knows what it means to be under the thumb of a greedy corporation, living paycheck to paycheck, going without health insurance, working long hours each week and still worrying about how you're going to pay the bills. For more than 20 years, he stood up for working class individuals in Maine. In Augusta, as Senate president, he took on big pharma to lower drug costs, passed universal school meals, protected individual freedoms Funded rural hospitals, saved our rural veterans homes, delivered property tax relief, defended the environment, and passed laws to make sure Maine workers get fair, decent benefits and a voice on the job. He's never been afraid to speak out when his party gets it wrong or when powerful interests are trying to stack the deck against regular people. Troy's running for governor for the people are too often left behind. Troy, welcome to the podcast.

[Troy Jackson]

Well, thank you very much, Governor. I really appreciate it.

[Andy Beshear]

I'm honored. Your background is fascinating. I'm not sure that we've had anyone on the podcast that's worked in 80 hours a week in the logging industry. Tell us, tell us kind of how that, how that shaped you.

[Troy Jackson]

Well, you know, I mean, shaping me was obviously going to work in the woods. My father, you know, I watched him when I went with him, work incredibly hard. You know, I had to keep his head down because landowners had a lot of power.

[Andy Beshear]

And when he knew things weren't going.

[Troy Jackson]

Right, he still didn't feel like he could say anything because, you know, he's afraid to lose what he had. And, you know, when I wasn't with him in the woods, you know, when I had to go to school, whatever, you know, I lived in the same home as my dad, but, you know, I would go, you know, weeks on end without really even seeing him because he was working, you know, 80 hours a week or more. And my father didn't really want me to go to work in the woods. But of course I was, you know, I say I was stupid. You know, I did the same thing as him. And, you know, it's just one of those things, you know, you want to stay in the area you grew up in, you want to stay, and that's what you have to do in that my area. And, you know, I think it's an honorable profession and stuff like that, but a place that you have to work incredibly hard. And people say loggers don't retire. They just go away.

[Andy Beshear]

Did the feeling that your dad didn't have a voice drive you to be a voice, to make sure that the people around you have one?

[Troy Jackson]

The feeling watching my father and other men and labor strikes definitely shaped me. I didn't really understand it at the time, but I knew it affected me. It still does today. You know, I get emotional about it, but when it actually happened to me, I understood very well, you know, that power and difference, people with, you know, power and influence, how they make working class people feel like they have to do it or go home, you know, I don't know how many times in my life I've heard that, do we're to go home? Even today, even as Senate president? I mean, I've heard that. And that's a big part of what this campaign is about, is I don't think working class people have to put up with that.

[John Rabinowitz]

You know, Andy Troy, this is John Rabinowitz. And it's great to meet you. And I love your story and your background. And there was a quote that stood out to me where you said, I'm not from the right or from the left, I'm from the bottom. I also love the for the people. But we can talk about that later as shameless plug with Morgan and Morgan, but never hear it. But can you tell us a little bit about that background, why that quote means so much to you? And then, and you kind of answered it earlier, how you what led you into your work in the legislature?

[Troy Jackson]

Yeah, well, I mean, you know, I grew up thinking that government was supposed to work for people that played by the rules and did everything right. And when I really needed government to work for me and my colleagues in the woods, you know, I mean, I guess I was naive. It didn't, you know, I mean, I looked at the laws, I looked at, you know, what was printed. And even though it was very clear to me how it was supposed to operate, when we asked our elected officials, you know, to follow law, they didn't because people with power and influence had their ear. And that's why I ran for the legislature. And, you know, I just wanted to be part of the team to try and change the system. And, you know, I kept working my way up, you know, from the House into the Senate into leadership, you know, the majority leader in the Senate, president. And, and all along the way there was somebody with more power and influence that was blocking me. And a big part of that, obviously, is because, you know, they don't believe that somebody from the working class should be in that position. But, you know, I have continued to push forward and I am going to continue to push forward because I think working class people deserve a voice in government as much as anyone else, and I'm going to prove them wrong.

[Andy Beshear]

Tell us about taking on Big Pharma, because that's something I did as attorney general, filing as many lawsuits as I could. If I could find other companies, I would have. John Rabinowitz's law firm has helped out a lot of states on that. But I think that's a great example of going up against those that people thought were so powerful they couldn't be held accountable.

[John Rabinowitz]

David versus Goliath.

[Andy Beshear]

And they are being held accountable.

[Troy Jackson]

Yeah, well, I. I hear that all the time, and big I mean, that you can't do anything. And the other thing that I hear is that, you know, our drugs are the safest and all that, but where I live, you know, right on the Canadian border, I mean, I'm in. I see New Brunswick on one side and Quebec on the other. The prescription drugs are the exact same drugs, but for some odd reason, as soon as they cross into Maine, they're not safe anymore. And that's obviously just bullshit. Excuse me, but greed and lies. And so I know better. And right from the start, you know, we've pushed back on that. But the argument here in Maine has always been that, you know, you can't do that. Big Pharma is going to sue us. States can't have those rights. And I disagree. I just believe that states have to take on these things because I don't believe that federal government's ever going to do their job. And the more states that take these on, the more opportunity that we have for maybe the federal government to actually do their job. And so it's been a big deal for me to make these arguments that Big Pharma is blocking states rights to actually have medication either out of Canada or put price caps on prescription drugs. And, you know, our current governor says that, you know, we're going to be sued. Well, yeah, that's their business model. They're going to sue us. But we have a great big law firm here in Maine called the Attorney General's office. And I say let's take them on, because if our argument is we're going to be sued, we're always going to lose. And I think the people of Maine need to know that this state is going to fight for them.

[John Rabinowitz]

Troy, another major issue that we talk about constantly on this podcast is affordability. In fact, we just had a conversation where we talked about it in detail. What would you tell families that are really struggling out there? How would you help them? It is a constant issue that we talk about daily.

[Troy Jackson]

Yeah, well, I mean, we've been pushing on that. You know, my time, my last run here in the state senate, I mean, we just did universal school meals so that, you know, kids across the state would not have to worry once they went to school. We put a bunch of money into childcare, which became a huge issue for me, something I feel very strong about. The one thing that, you know, myself and the parent governors fought a lot about is Nursing homes. You know, we've lost about 40% of our nursing homes in Maine. In the state that's, you know, one of the oldest. You know, people need to know what they're going to do with their, you know, elderly parents, where they're going to go, where they're going to get the quality care. Same, you know, same thing. Even though we did some child care, you know, we need more housing is a huge problem. But in Maine, the University of Maine orono is doing 3D printed homes. It's part of the forest product sectors. You know, rebirth. I, I just think that the state has to get out of the old status quo of thinking that somebody is going to come and save us and, and do these things and the state step up and, and do these things that, you know, we can do on our own with, via tax incentives or, you know, whatever. You know, we can create these opportunities in Maine. We have to. Property tax reform, you know, that's something that people across the state are being taxed out of their homes. We can do real tax reform for Mainers. There's so much going on that the state really needs to jump into. And the other thing that I think is massive too is fair tax reform. We have not had that. We've given two massive income tax cuts. That's the wealthiest people in this state. It's time for real progressive tax reform in this state.

[Andy Beshear]

You are part of a big primary. Tell our listeners what makes you stand out, why voters in Maine should select you as the Democratic nominee.

[Angus King III]

Well, there's a bunch of things.

[Troy Jackson]

I mean one, I mean I'm the only one with 20 years experience. You, even though I am not the status quo, I've had close to 100 bills vetoed, going up against big pharma, going up against big landowners, going up against big corporations. I've been endorsed by 40 unions. I'm the only one that's endorsed by any unions at all, including the main AFL cio, which has never done that in the gubernatorial primary. You know, you started out asking me about 80 hour work weeks. I don't think anyone in this group has actually been out there with chainsaw in the middle of the woods, you know, 20 below cutting a tree. And I would say the other thing that's important about this is, you know, I've been winning state senate races in the Trump 17 point districts in the second CD whereas no one else in this race comes from the second circle or has won a seat that was Trump 17 points. I can win in the general election. I Don't believe my competitors.

[Andy Beshear]

Can I hear an argument that you win in a Trump plus well, 17 Kentucky Trump plus 31. Strong, strong argument. Now tell our listeners who aren't from Maine why they should be involved in a Maine gubernatorial race, a main primary.

[Troy Jackson]

Well, I would say why you should be involved is because you got a chance to put a real working class person in the Blaine house here in Maine. I'd be the only union member in the entire country now that Governor Walz is retiring and we're going to change the status quo here in Maine. You know, we're going to, to be someone obviously that already is on the front lines against Trump with what he's doing with ice. I've, you know, I mean, look, I've had to deal with men like that my entire life in the logging industry. You know, I'm not saying it's easy. I'm not making light of it or anything like that.

[Andy Beshear]

But.

[Troy Jackson]

You know, I'm not in this for a claim or anything like that. I'm in this to help people in the state because I know what it's like to get screwed and I'm trying to bring a better estate for everyday working class people. So if you want somebody to fight for you, you want somebody to fight for those that haven't had it easy, I'm your guy.

[Andy Beshear]

Tell our listeners how they can follow your campaign.

[Troy Jackson]

Yeah, well, the easiest way, just go to jacksonformaine.com and I'd really appreciate it.

[Andy Beshear]

Troy, thanks for joining the podcast.

[John Rabinowitz]

Thank you, Troy.

[Troy Jackson]

Yeah, Governor, thanks a lot. I really appreciate you both guys.

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[Andy Beshear]

Our next guest on the Andy beshear podcast is Dr. Nirav Shaw. He was born and raised in a small rural town of 5,000 people in Northern Wisconsin. He attended public schools until going to medical and law school at the University of Chicago. After nearly a decade as a health care lawyer, Shah wanted to make a greater impact on public health and was chosen to lead the Illinois Department of Public Health. He managed the state's multimillion dollar public health budget and worked across the aisle to address the opioid crisis, maternal mortality, and childhood lead poisoning. In 2019, Governor Janet Mills appointed him to be director of of the Maine center for Disease Control and Prevention. As head of the Maine cdc, he immediately got to work rebuilding an agency that had been decimated by the previous Republican administration. Within a short time, Shaw saw that Maine values were his values. He and his wife knew they'd found a home. Because of his effective leadership in Maine, President Biden's administration tapped him to become the principal Deputy Director of the U.S. centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Shaw's focused on fixing housing, funding health care, feeding kids, and fueling growth, all while fighting the overreaches of the Trump administration. He resides in Brunswick with his wife, their German shepherd, which we'll have to ask about in the midst of this. We're big dog people on this podcast. When not working or volunteering with community organizations, he enjoys hiking, cooking, and exploring Maine's breweries. Dr. Shah, welcome to the podcast.

[Dr. Nirav Shah]

Thank you, Governor Beshear. It's an honor to be on with.

[Andy Beshear]

Your background and all of your service, especially in public health. Tell us how you go about the job. Being Maine's governor with a Trump administration that is tearing down the nih, that is pulling back on guidance from the CDC and putting Americans at risk for things like smallpox and polio that should be behind us.

[Dr. Nirav Shah]

Well, Governor, you are exactly right that in this moment, public health is under threat in this country and our healthcare overall. One of the reasons why I opted to join the governor's race is my belief that in this moment, the way in which our health, our safety and our rights will be protected is through state governments and the governors who lead them. And I know that's something that you agree with as well as it relates to public health. States are going to have to lead the way because unfortunately, the federal government, whether it's the cdc, the fda, or what have you, they have picked up their ball and gone home. And so into that vacuum, states are going to have to lead the way on things like smart vaccine policy, so we don't continue to see the increases in measles that we've seen. It doesn't just end there. Last week, quite odiously, the Trump administration removed its own legal authority to regulate greenhouse gas emissions, which means that in states like Maine, and perhaps even like in the Commonwealth of Kentucky, we're going to see more people being exposed to air pollution, which is going to lead to more things like asthma. So states are going to have to take the lead to keep our citizens safe. That's one of the reasons I'm running for governor. And, and that's why this upcoming election is so important.

[Andy Beshear]

You've got these threats, which are policy decision based threats. But in Maine, you've also had direct threats with the ICE operation. Tell us your thoughts on that and how as governor, you would protect the people of Maine.

[Dr. Nirav Shah]

Well, you're absolutely right. We saw in recent weeks a surge in ICE activity across the state. Now, we were told that that surge may have subsided, but yet over the past few days, there are continued reports of detentions across the state of Maine. My view is that it is incumbent upon the next governor to be ready for whenever the Trump administration decides once again to set its sights on the state of Maine, or for that matter, any blue state. I think there are some very concrete things, things that governors can do in this moment, for example, to make changes to who is allowed to serve in federal or local law enforcement in their states, and who is allowed to operate by, for example, setting minimum training requirements for any law enforcement official operating in their boundaries. Another, another avenue is not so much the composition, but rather on the conduct. And so making it the case that any law enforcement official must have an ID badge, must have a functioning body camera, and may not wear a mask unless under certain circumstances. And then the last thing that I think all states should be considering, including Maine, is evaluating the consequences of violation of rights on the part of federal law enforcement. And this includes wading once again into a difficult discussion around the limits of qualified immunity. My bigger point is that once again, states are going to have to take the lead as the way in which our rights are protected. And that's the work that I'm ready to do as governor.

[John Rabinowitz]

Nirav, it's a pleasure to meet you. This is John Rabinowitz, and I understand we have one thing in common, that we're both fellow University of Louisville grads. So I got to get that plug in.

[Dr. Nirav Shah]

Yes, sir.

[John Rabinowitz]

You got It, John, it's quite impressive. Looking at the background with a degree both in medicine and law, I always, I had a few friends that did that. I said they were glutton for punishment. I just can't, like, imagine going through that, you know.

[Dr. Nirav Shah]

And here, all my mom wanted me to do is just be a pharmacist.

[John Rabinowitz]

Well, you've exceeded that.

[Andy Beshear]

Organic chemistry and torts.

[John Rabinowitz]

Yes, just not enough. So you met, you touched a little bit on some issues that are going on in Maine. When you're out on the campaign trail, what are you hearing from voters that are major issues that need to be addressed?

[Dr. Nirav Shah]

That's a great question, John, because you're right. When I'm out and about. What I hear most often is concerns about healthcare and then more broadly concerns about affordability. We're all hearing that across the country. In Maine, I'd say I hear a lot more about healthcare along a couple of different axes. The first is there just are not enough appointments out there because the healthcare workforce in Maine is. Is nowhere near what it needs to be. The other is particularly in rural Maine. And I'd zero in on one aspect of that, and that is the crisis around maternity care. Now, I know in eastern Kentucky and certainly in rural Maine, a number of maternity wards and birthing centers have closed across the state. And that has been particularly acute here. Not only is that a human tragedy, it is also turning into an economic development concern because young families are not keen to move to a rural part of the state because they would have to drive 2, 3, 4 hours sometimes on icy roads in the middle of winter just to make their prenatal appointments. And so what's starting to happen is that this crisis of health care in rural Maine is having economic impacts in addition to human impacts.

[Andy Beshear]

Talk a little bit about what happens when a rural hospital closes to that that rural areas economy. The idea that it's the biggest payroll and so it's not the only business that closes.

[Dr. Nirav Shah]

That's exactly right, Governor. And we've seen that here in Maine, where just in the past few years, a number of hospitals have shuttered their doors. And the ripple effects from that are significant. Of course, first in that concentric set of circles is again, the very real human toll of those closures. Folks don't have a doctor anymore. In many cases, their emergency care is taken away. Ambulances have to travel a longer distance when someone has an accident. In a time when gas is already expensive. Having to drive and take extra time off of work to take yourself or your kids to the doctor adds to the strain that folks are already under. One circle out from that is the immediate loss of of jobs that come from when hospitals close. As you noted, Governor, in most places they exist. Hospitals are among the biggest employers. And so when they close, all of those folks are suddenly out of a job. But then the one that we are starting to see is that third and fourth set of concentric circles. And that's the indirect harms that come. All of those folks, when they lose their jobs, they may move, which puts additional pressure on small towns to stay afloat. Those who stay are perhaps not buying as much as they did before, which means that their dollars are going not as far, which makes the business climate that much harder. And so when a rural hospital closes, everyone is made worse, not just from a health perspective, but from an economic development perspective. All of that, Governor, has the last ring, which is if you once again, you are considering moving to a rural town because of the lifestyle, because of the beauty of it, you are that much less likely to move there if there's not health care and that that repair can take decades to fix.

[John Rabinowitz]

In addition to health care, you mentioned also affordability, and that is a constant on this podcast when we're interviewing different legislators. What would you tell a young couple that's trying to afford their first home or trying to afford rent? What can you do to help make their life better?

[Dr. Nirav Shah]

Well, John, that again comes up and you are spot on. It's often a younger family that's trying to move out of rental and into a permanent house of their own to get on that economic ladder toward wealth creation. I think about this particularly around homeownership in the following way. One, rents in Maine are so high that it's just difficult for families to save up the down payment, let alone make their mortgage payment. And so one of the things that I've proposed or have talked about is ways in which the state could make it a little bit easier for that down payment to become a reality. Perhaps the state could guarantee part of the loan that might be needed to make that down payment happen. There are opportunities there again to help folks move from rental into house, into, into actually ownership. The other piece though, John, is that I think in the Commonwealth and certainly here in Maine, the type of housing that we need the most is the so called missing middle. These are starter homes, these are condos. Maine has not kept up with the demand and we need to be all gas, no brakes when it comes to building more of this missing middle starter home, dense condo type of housing. These are affordable units. They're often located within where the jobs are, which makes commute times lower. And these are the ones that families can get into sooner rather than later and again, start getting on that ladder toward economic development and wealth. That's gonna take a long time. Building takes time. And in Maine, it's not the easiest state in the world to build in. So we've got a lot to do to remove a lot of those barriers. That's the work I'm committed to. It's gonna take time, but we are making progress.

[Andy Beshear]

So when people try to put me in a box politically, because they're always trying to do left, right, liberal, moderate conservative, I say I'm pragmatic. But you have said you believe in extreme pragmatism, which tells me I should have used the word extreme, too. Tell us what you mean by that. And as we're running out of time, if you'll transition from that to why you should be the candidate to come out of this primary and close us out by telling people how to follow your campaign.

[Dr. Nirav Shah]

You got it. Well, Governor, I'm proud of being an extreme pragmatist, by which I mean the following. The first question that I think about, it's what I thought about during COVID it's what I think about now. When I think about policy, where my head goes immediately is, does it work? Not so much who's going to support it, who's going to be against it, who's going to be allied behind it, or on the other side. The main question for me is, does it work? And as you, as you sort of noted, Governor, many of my policy views are somewhat heterodox. There are some areas where I'm on one side, another area where I'm another. But the unifying force behind all of those is, does it work? And that's why I'm running for governor, ultimately, is to find solutions to problems that have plagued not just Maine, but all the other 49 states. And I'd welcome anyone who's listening to take a look at our website. And that is shawformain.com that's S H A H F O R N M A I N E. And we welcome you to take a look at our website and get involved, if you're keen to.

[Andy Beshear]

Dr. Shaw, thanks for joining the podcast.

[Dr. Nirav Shah]

Thank you, Governor. Thanks, John.

[John Rabinowitz]

Thank you.

[Andy Beshear]

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[John Rabinowitz]

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[John Rabinowitz]

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[Andy Beshear]

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[Andy Beshear]

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[Andy Beshear]

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[John Rabinowitz]

It's going to be really depressing when Winnie outsells us five to one.

[Andy Beshear]

Oh, at least five to one. Get ready for it.

[Hannah Pingree]

No.

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