← Andy Beshear Podcast
Andy Beshear Podcast
Rep. Cyndi Munson, Sam Bregman and Democracy Forward CEO Skye Perryman Take on Trump
00:58:43
This week on the Andy Beshear Podcast, Governor Andy Beshear sits down with leaders on the front lines of the biggest fights shaping our country, from statehouses to courtrooms.
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- [00:00]
Olivia
Hey, it's Olivia from Ollie. I gotta tell you, I saw when you asked AI about probiotics. No judgment, but I think Olli can help. Probiotics are the good bacteria that support your digestive and immune system. Just two gummies a day to bring balance to your gut. So save the AI for drafting that reply to your ex. That's gonna take guts. Go to o l l y.com to learn more. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.
- [00:30]
Cindy Munson
Ali.
- [00:38]
Andy Beshear
Welcome to the Andy Beshear Podcast. This week I'm sitting down with leaders who are on the front lines of some of the most important battles going on in our country. We'll start with Sam Bregman. He is running for governor in New Mexico and we'll talk about public safety and accountability and and we might just ask him about his son's baseball career. And then candidate for Oklahoma Governor Cindy Munson is going to talk about what it means to run as a Democrat in a deep red state. We'll talk back and forth about that one. I know a little bit about it. And then the head of Democracy Forward, Sky Perryman, is going to talk about defending our Constitution and the rule of law in an honest conversation about leadership, courage and standing up for what you believe in. Especially, especially when it's hard. Remember, you can download the podcast wherever you get your podcast or on the Sirius XM app. Catch a new episode each week on Sirius XM's progress channel or watch us on YouTube at Andy Beshear Podcast. Make sure when you go there you click, subscribe and feel free to put questions in the comments. And maybe, just maybe, you'll hear it read on the Andy Beshear Podcast. Finally, remember, my new book Go and Do likewise is now available for pre order wherever you order your books. With that, this is a packed episode. Let's get to it. Hey podcast family. Yours truly is now a published author. My new book, Go and Do likewise is available September 22, but you can pre order it right now. There'll be the hardcover, the ebook and the audiobook. It talks about how we can reclaim faith as a force for good in public life, how it can help us heal our divided communities. And it offers a strong rebuke to Donald Trump and anyone else using faith to hurt people instead of help people. It's based on the idea that that parable, the Good Samaritan that tells us everyone is our neighbor and we have a duty to each of them and is more than just a story, it's an instruction. At the end of the parable, Jesus looks at the crowd and says, now go and do likewise. In the book, I'll talk about the aftermath of tornadoes and floods where I saw the very best of people. But I'll also tell you about public figures who've used faith for the very worst. This book is about building better communities. It's about bringing us together and how we heal this country. So once again, this new book, go and do likewise, available September 22, but go ahead and pre order it right now. Our guest on this week's episode of the Andy Beshear Podcast is Representative Cindy Munson. The daughter of a Vietnam War veteran and a South Korean immigrant, Cindy grew up in Lawton. Cindy and her younger sister were raised by their single father who worked multiple jobs while serving in the U.S. army. To make ends meet, her family had to move every year chasing cheaper rent. Cindy would move 10 times before graduating high school, all in the same town. After graduating from high school, Cindy attended the University of Central Oklahoma and became the first person in her family to to graduate from college only because of the Oklahoma Promise Scholarship Program which provides free in state college tuition to low income families. Cindy then spent over a decade working in the nonprofit community. Elected to the Oklahoma House of Representatives in 2015, Cindy became the first Asian American woman elected to the Oklahoma legislature. As the Democratic leader. She led the bipartisan effort to repeal the state sales tax on groceries, providing tax relief to everyday Oklahomans. And she fought for increased funding for public schools and stood up to insurance companies and more. Now she is the Democratic candidate for Governor. Cindy, welcome to the podcast.
- [04:41]
Cindy Munson
Hi Governor Beshear. Thank you so much for having me. Glad to be here.
- [04:45]
Andy Beshear
We're excited to have you on. I want to start with how probably the rest of the country and our listeners view Oklahoma. They likely view it as red, just like they view Kentucky. Some might say, can a Democrat win in Oklahoma? I think that answer is yes. How are you going to prove me right?
- [05:05]
Cindy Munson
Yeah, oh great question. And of course what you've been able to accomplish is certainly what inspires us and continues to motivate us as we work towards Election Day this year. I tell people all the time that Oklahoma is not a red state. It is a gerrymandered state. Our district lines are favoring the Republican Party right now. It is not favoring everyday Oklahomans. Just two governors ago we had a Democratic governor and when Governor Brad Henry was governor, I was in high school and early College. And Oklahoma was ranked 17th in the nation for quality of public education. There was a more balanced state legislature. And now with Republicans being in control for nearly two decades, we're at the very bottom. Bottom for education, near the bottom for healthcare. And so what this proves is that when you have more balanced government, when you have a Democratic governor, things are much, much better for those across our state. And my focus is doing what I've always done. I flipped a Republican held seat, never once held by a Democrat in central Oklahoma City because I knocked doors, I listened to people, I had hard conversations face to face. And that's what I'm doing as I travel the state of Oklahoma and have been doing that now for 10 months yesterday, and have been able to have honest conversations about really tough issues. And what I hear over and over again is they want their next governor focused on the issues that matter to them. And that means education, health care, and getting our economy on track.
- [06:36]
Andy Beshear
Yeah, I think that those are the issues that our American families are crying out for us to, to address and to try to address them together. Your background, you understand struggling Americans and struggling American families. How does that help you relate as you're on the campaign trail?
- [06:56]
Cindy Munson
Yeah, you know, the 10 plus years that I've been in the legislature, something that I think has always helped me and has guided me is my authenticity and knowing about what everyday people are going through. And that's because of my own lived experience. I understand what children who are in families right now where parents are working multiple jobs, trying to keep a roof over their head, sending their kids to school and figuring out making hard decisions for their families in a place where, quite frankly, those who have held the most power in our state haven't made those decisions easy. And then being a young professional living in Oklahoma and now being in the legislature, knowing how to balance your budget when you're not making enough to stretch that dollar to pay for things that are constant rising like rent, home insurance, utilities, groceries. You know, all of us, you all understand this. I believe your listeners understand this. These are everyday problems. And when you understand those problems, you actually have the urgency to try to solve them. Many times those who are in power in Oklahoma are way too focused on these wedge issues that divide us and keep us at each other's throats versus on working on real problems. And I think it's because they are so disconnected from their constituents. They're disconnected from everyday people because they don't have to spend a lot of time talking to them and earning their vote. And I Know what that's like. So both in my own lived experience growing up, living in Oklahoma as an adult and then serving in the legislature, taking time to get to know people that I serve and bringing those challenges that they have to the Capitol and trying to solve them.
- [08:32]
John Rabinowitz
Cindy, this is John Rabinowitz. It's such a pleasure to meet you. You have such a great story. Andy and I were talking about your background. We've interviewed a lot of people running for governor across the country and affordability comes up time and time again. What would you tell a young couple that's looking for their first home or trying to afford rent? If you were the governor, how could you help them?
- [08:59]
Cindy Munson
Yeah, well, first, I think the main thing that we have to focus on for young families is, yes, affordability for homes, but schools, this, that's actually what I hear about more and more every day. And in my own district or people who have left the state of Oklahoma, they are trying to figure out where to live in this state based on what schools are offering and what schools are well resourced and where are the outcomes, where they're achieving the outcomes that they want their children to achieve. And so I think first and foremost, in order for us to get to actually address affordability, we have to improve public, public education. Because affordability in Oklahoma really means we need to bring jobs that create better life and quality of life for families. We don't have enough jobs that pay high wages and give good benefits. Our minimum wage is still stuck at $7.25 an hour. I've been working hard to try to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour through the legislature and it's been very, very difficult with Republicans in full control of our state government. And so what I would tell a family is, well, first I would tell them I understand how difficult it is. I have a seven year old nephew who's in second grade and my sister and my brother in law, they rent their home, they save every month in order to buy a new home. They want to buy a home, they want to be homeowners. But it's incredibly difficult. And when you hear these stories, when I hear these stories over and over again, affordability is really that we are not making enough wages, our wages are not high enough, paychecks aren't being stretched, they can't stretch them any further. They don't keep up with rising costs. And so it's really bringing opportunities here to put more money into the pockets of everyday Oklahomans.
- [10:40]
Andy Beshear
You're listening to the Andy Beshear podcast. Our guest this week is Representative Cindy Munson. Cindy, you were in the nonprofit world, which are the do gooders that are out there trying to improve and save the world. When was the moment you said, I've got to run for office?
- [11:00]
Cindy Munson
Well, I started getting involved in the nonprofit world when I was a senior in college. I was a volunteer for the Girl Scouts Local council here in Oklahoma City, and I was working with young women who were in and out of our juvenile system. Many of them were facing challenges like poverty. They were teen mothers. They had mothers or grandmothers or people in their family who had been incarcerated. So they were facing generational incarceration. In Oklahoma, we have the highest rates of incarceration specifically for women in our state. And so I realized that this was the area that I really wanted to work in. I wanted to help women and girls. Even though I had always liked politics and public service, the nonprofit world helped me to see that we could focus on one mission. We could focus on addressing an issue without worrying about whether we were liberal or conservative, Democrat or Republican, whether we agreed on politics. But if we agreed on improving the lives of girls, then we were doing the right thing. So I went to graduate school so I could work in the nonprofit world. I came back home. I wanted to come home, and I wanted to address the statistics that women and girls face. So I've worked all across the state of Oklahoma, specifically in western Oklahoma. We covered 39 counties. And as I was working in these programs, I saw what was happening in our school system. I saw what was happening our juvenile system, how incarceration was breaking up families. And I had young women in the juvenile system who said, when I asked, what do you want to do when you grow up? And they said, I want to go to Mabel Bassett. I want to go to Eddie Warrior. These are our two women's facilities, adult women's facilities. And I asked, why in the world would you want to go there? And they said, because I want to be reconnected with my mom. I want to be reconnected with my aunt or my grandmother. And so that really opened my eyes to bringing other opportunities. We're not investing in people. We're not investing in young women, especially young women and kids in general, who are facing some of the toughest challenges that they did not ask for. And I saw a lot of myself in them. I could have gone all different routes. You. You talked about my background. I was raised by a single dad. We had a lot of financial challenges. Being a single parent is not easy to two children. So I could have gone all different places, but it was because of my public school, it was because of my church. It was because of adults that surrounded me and put me on a positive path. And it was one evening I had actually been asked to run for state representative. I was 28. This was in 2013. And my first answer was no. Because I was like, I love what I do. I don't want to get into political fights. I just want to solve problems for girls. But I had a young girl in a juvenile system here in Oklahoma county. She was 11 years old. She was already pregnant. And I had seen the cycle. I already knew she was going to go back to a neighborhood that wasn't safe, a school that was under resourced, and she was going to be shunned and treated differently because now she is pregnant. And that was when I made the decision. I said, I have to run for state representative. I have to elevate these stories. I have to do something when I get into the legislature. If we can't take care of young women that are in our juvenile system, that are in our incarceration system, then we really are failing the entire state. These are people who have potential, who have gifts, and if we don't invest in them, we're going to be paying for high incarceration bills versus getting them to be out in our community and making positive change. So that's why I decided we need different policymakers. We need people who understand I didn't win that first race. I did win my second race. And I have been a champion and advocate for young women and girls the decade I've been in the legislature.
- [14:35]
John Rabinowitz
So, Cindy, listening to your story, it is fascinating and inspiring. But why now do you want to run for governor? We talk a lot about with our. I'm stealing your line. Like the why, right?
- [14:46]
Cindy Munson
But the why?
- [14:47]
John Rabinowitz
Yes. Why is the timing right now to run for this office?
- [14:52]
Cindy Munson
Yeah. I think right now we are in a very interesting place in our country and in our state where things are really, really challenging. And I think when we get to this point in our own lives as a community, I say this all the time, as I travel the state, as I speak to people. The teeny, tiny silver lining is that people are waking up. They're realizing they can't sit on the sideline. They're realizing they have to get involved. They have to be a part of positive change. And so I really feel energy. You see it across the country. We see these wins for Democrats in unlikely places where Trump won big time and Democrats are either overperforming and not quite getting there, or they are winning and over performing in their wins. And we've seen that even here in Oklahoma and of course, south of us in Texas. And so I feel the momentum. I think, as a state in Oklahoma, we can't be ranked 50th in the country for public education anymore. It's unacceptable. We need a leader who says it's unacceptable, and here's a vision to fix it. 47th in health care. You traveled across the state of Oklahoma. We just expanded Medicaid, by the way, in 2020 by initiative petition. The people Oklahomans expanded abandoned Medicaid in Oklahoma and said, bring our federal dollars back to Oklahoma so we can keep our hospitals open, we can provide services for people, and our rural communities can actually prosper. And In Oklahoma, nearly 50% of working families are working multiple jobs and they cannot make ends meet. It's unacceptable. And I don't hear from anybody, those who have the most power, and those are Republicans right now in OKLAHOMA, for nearly 20 years, two decades, they've been in power. And this is where we're at. So I decided I have the lived experience. I know what this means. I know how to put up a fight in a campaign. I know what it takes to raise money to get out there and talk to voters, to connect with people. And so I made that decision almost a year ago to run. And I just think we're at a critical point right now in our state that it's unacceptable. We can't accept any more of this divisive stuff, the things that, again, keep us at each other's throats. We're talking about issues that are not real, issues that are manufactured in our state and not actually solving real problems. I've been living and working under Republican control for over a decade in the legislature. And I know better than any of them what it's like to work in a bipartisan way, build relationships, to get things done. Being in the super minority and still getting bills signed by Republican governors, both Governor Stitt and Governor Fallin means that I can do the work. I can find common ground. Anybody on the other side, Republicans that are running, whoever my opponent ends up being, there's like eight or nine of them fighting it out right now. They have no idea what it's like to have to have discussions, negotiate, compromise to solve problems and to accomplish your goals.
- [17:43]
Andy Beshear
I think it's also important, and I believe you're saying this in your answer, to have a governor that will stand up for their state. No Matter what, that they'll put the state first, regardless of their party and regardless of the president's party. And what I'm seeing right now is legislation or actions that are going to hurt rural America or are currently hurting rural America. At least in Kentucky, tariffs are hitting us hard. They're raising costs for our people. The big ugly bill is just going to decimate rural health care. Talk about how you, as governor, regardless of who the president is or would be, would always be standing up for your people.
- [18:29]
Cindy Munson
You are absolutely right. And I hear it over and over again. And look, Trump did. He won all 77 counties in Oklahoma. But I remind people, not everybody in Oklahoma voted for him. And people know the difference between the president and a governor. And they want a governor who's focused on the state. They don't. It doesn't matter who they voted for for president. They want to know that you understand the everyday issues that they're facing. And you're going to solve the problem that a governor can solve. And a governor can solve problems around public schools. A governor can solve problems around health care. Now, we're running up in a real challenge with the Medicaid changes and the Medicaid cuts. Oklahoma, within a decade, we're going to lose $6 billion. We have hospitals that are already. They were already at the brink of closing. And that reality is happening more and more every day. I was in southeastern Oklahoma a few weeks ago, one of the poorest counties in Oklahoma, touching right there near Louisiana. Women in southeastern Oklahoma don't have access to OB care. That's unacceptable. When you hear people's stories, when you hear the challenges that they're facing, you know, how could you not? You know, I tell people all the time that the hardest part of campaigning and being out there and hearing people's stories, and I'm so grateful because people so vulnerable with me, they share their deepest challenges, their deepest fears, and, of course, their greatest hopes. But there's nothing I want more than to help and change this for them, knowing that I would have the power to do it. I see Oklahomans all across the state who stand up for each other. They stand up for their neighbors. They're figuring out ways to solve problems. But they need a governor who's going to support them and who's going to help them do that. They can't do it on their own. They, and I truly believe Oklahomans are done with a governor who is bending and pandering to get the attention of the president. That's not what they're elected For a governor is elected to solve problems for them.
- [20:18]
Andy Beshear
Most Americans don't realize right now that because of a Supreme Court ruling that makes nationwide injunctions tougher to get, There is a difference in between our states about who's getting what funding. You know, the president tried to unlawfully stop funding for building resiliently after natural disasters, for AmeriCorps. And in places that have a Democratic governor or attorney general or one just willing to stand up for their state, they've sued and that money is flowing. But in states that they haven't, in states that governors weren't willing to put their state first, they don't get that same funding. They're not getting the dollars for the warning systems for flooding. They're not getting the dollars for those extra people in the school system to try to help it out. Tell us a little bit about what your day one agenda would look like.
- [21:13]
Cindy Munson
Yeah, yeah. What you're elevating is very unfortunate. It's not leadership. And it's very sad where we are as a country with this president and how he's treating Americans. But for me, day one is setting out a vision on investments in Oklahoma. We can get out of 50th in the nation for public education if we would just put our tax dollars towards public education. Republicans are really stuck on using our public dollars and putting it in private schools. I say repeal those programs. Bring those dollars back to state government, and let's put those and infuse those into our public schools. We're going to increase teacher pay. And I know that these are things that a Democratic governor, Republican legislature, because that is the reality of what I will be working in. I'm not delusional. I tell people this all the time.
- [21:54]
Andy Beshear
I understand it completely.
- [21:55]
Cindy Munson
Yeah, you get it. Again, you have set an example for us. And what you do is you find common ground. And I know they're for this because they've got bills out there active right now. We're week three into the legislature. They talk about it wherever they go. I'm in their communities. I hear what their constituents are talking about. And when I become governor, they will be shared constituents. And so I will sit down, have a conversation and say, what can we do to make this happen? We can make it happen. The wealthiest Oklahomans, the. The biggest corporations in this state have gotten tax cut after tax cut after tax cut. We can find ways to bring those dollars back. Tax credits, tax exemptions. Let's use those dollars to help everyday people. And let's start with education. And the next will be healthcare. And again, I am fully aware that we're going to have a huge challenge. We already have a challenge in our hands and in our laps right now as a state. But I do believe if we can get, if we can pull our education system out of last, if we can show teachers, show students and families we care about public schools, we're going to make these critical investments. We're going to make sure you have counselors, we're going to make sure you have literacy coaches that Republicans are advocating for right now. But we're going to put the resources behind them. And I think that's going to show the country, it's going to show businesses we're serious about taking care of our people. And we want you to come and invest in Oklahoma just like we're investing in ourselves. But education will be number one.
- [23:17]
Andy Beshear
We also like for our listeners to get to know the candidates a little bit. So in the toughest question that I will ask you during this entire interview, what's your NBA team?
- [23:28]
Cindy Munson
Well, go Thunder, of course, okc. And I'm the proud.
- [23:33]
John Rabinowitz
And why are you saying that, Andy?
- [23:35]
Cindy Munson
I'm the proud representative of Sam Presti and sga. They are my constituents.
- [23:41]
Andy Beshear
Of course. SGA went to college. Where?
- [23:45]
Cindy Munson
Oh, gosh. Did he go to the University of Kentucky.
- [23:47]
Andy Beshear
The University of Kentucky.
- [23:48]
John Rabinowitz
You knew you had to brag about it a little.
- [23:50]
Sam Bregman
I can't believe you're not wearing shoes.
- [23:51]
Andy Beshear
We were going to get that in at some point.
- [23:53]
Cindy Munson
Oh, and also I should have told you, my dad's from Cincinnati, so we're big. You know, I've been to Cincinnati, Northern Kentucky, quite a bit.
- [24:01]
John Rabinowitz
There we go.
- [24:02]
Andy Beshear
Points for Northern Kentucky in that part. What's your favorite type of restaurant?
- [24:09]
Cindy Munson
Oh, my favorite restaurant. I like Mexican food. My favorite is a restaurant in Lawton, Oklahoma, called Solaces. And it's so good. The meat is cooked in vinegar and there's like this gooey cheese and you put a bunch of cheddar cheese on it. And I have campaign staff who are not from the state and they've been to my hometown multiple times. They have not been able to eat anywhere else other than Solaces. So gimme chips, queso, salsa, a Dr. Pepper.
- [24:37]
Andy Beshear
Let's say your campaign staff stops doing their job and gives you one full day off. What are you going to do with it?
- [24:43]
Cindy Munson
Oh, gosh. Oh. Days off are really hard for me. I, I, I like being outdoors. I like being outside. I like hiking and walking. I have, I have made walking a more serious habit over the last Year. So anything I can do outside, get sunshine, fresh air. That's what I'm trying to do.
- [25:03]
Andy Beshear
What's something about Oklahoma that you don't think the rest of the country knows that they ought to come see and do?
- [25:09]
Cindy Munson
Yeah. Oklahoma is not as flat as you think. We have a very diverse terrain and ecosystem, depending on where you are in the state. You're in the Panhandle, of course, it's flatter, it's dustier, it's windier. You go into southeastern Oklahoma. It is lush with lots of trees, lots of green. It's called green country. If you go into eastern Oklahoma, you will hear eastern Oklahomans say, green country. And then if you go into my part of the state where I grew up in southwestern Oklahoma, there is a wildlife refuge, the Wichita Mountains, where buffalo roam freely, and there's a mountain you can hike, and it's really, really beautiful.
- [25:48]
Andy Beshear
If you live in Oklahoma, is it a requirement to insult Texas at least once a day?
- [25:54]
Cindy Munson
Oh, absolutely. And what's funny, you know, we do this at the Capitol every day. But. And so the way that, you know, we're kind of snarky to the Republicans is we say, you know, do we want to follow the footsteps on their terrible policies? Do we want to follow the footsteps of Texas? You know, I thought we hate Texas Horns down all the time, but, yeah, we are not Texas fans in Oklahoma.
- [26:15]
Andy Beshear
It's also good if you don't send your National Guard to another state where the governor has said no to them.
- [26:20]
Cindy Munson
Yes.
- [26:20]
Andy Beshear
We like to ask everybody, what's your secret superpower? That thing that you're really good at that people might not know?
- [26:27]
Cindy Munson
Yeah. Okay. I am a regular listener of your podcast, so I have been waiting for this question.
- [26:33]
Andy Beshear
So you've been ready?
- [26:34]
Cindy Munson
I have been ready. My. My superpower that people. Most people probably don't realize because I tell people all the time I don't cook, and I really don't, but I can make tableside guacamole like nobody. Nobody's business. And I'm going to explain how this also works hand in hand and in conjunction with public service and politics. So when I was in college, I worked for a little Mexican restaurant called El Chico, and one of our top appetizers was tableside guacamole. And I remember when I was being trained, they're like, you're gonna have to make this. While you're talking to customers, like, bring all the ingredients out. You make it in front of them. And I was like, okay, I guess we're gonna do this. But what I loved about serving tables, it reminds me of door knocking. You just never know who's gonna be at your table. But you serve, and you provide the best service that you can. You want them to have the best product. You want to pay attention and listen to what they want in that product. And so I, over the years that I worked at El Chico, put the avocados in, put the spices in, tomatoes, jalapenos, cilantro, lime, but kept out what they didn't want added in extra things if they wanted it. And I think it teaches you a lot about paying attention and doing what's best. And sometimes you're in the limelight, you're right there in the public, they're watching you, and there's a lot of pressure. But if you can keep it together and continue to listen, you can give the best guacamole or the best listen.
- [27:54]
John Rabinowitz
That's a tremendous superpower.
- [27:55]
Cindy Munson
That is a tremendous superpower. It is often requested by my friends that I bring the guacamole partly because it's the best thing, the only good thing that I can make, but I am pretty good at it.
- [28:08]
Andy Beshear
Tell our listeners outside of Oklahoma why they ought to be interested in the governor's race.
- [28:13]
Cindy Munson
Yeah, when you think about some of the most extreme policies that you have heard of that you think are just absolutely ridiculous, whether it's harming women and access to reproductive health care, not investing in public schools, again, these divisive and extreme policies that are hurting us, unfortunately, a lot of them start right here in Oklahoma because we don't have the balance. We don't have the leverage as Democrats, I would even say more moderate Republicans to push back on these things. And so looking at a state like Oklahoma, if you care about health care, if you care about education, Oklahoma deserves your attention. Oklahoma deserves a new leader who has a vision to take care of everyday people. And so investing. If you want to come down to Oklahoma and knock some doors, we would love to have you, but this is the place that if we can turn Oklahoma, if we can flip this governor's race from Republican to Democrat and put in a leader who understands everyday people and who wants to see solve problems, we can do this everywhere and everywhere. We can make it happen in Oklahoma. So do not give up on us.
- [29:14]
Andy Beshear
And just to give people a little more motivation, 2026. We need a lot of great governors, but if we want to change the map for 2028, it's about electing new governors in 2026. Tell our listeners how to follow Your campaign?
- [29:28]
Cindy Munson
Yeah. You can follow me on social media, on TikTok, Blue Sky, Twitter or X, whatever you're calling it, Facebook threads, all. The handle is Cindy Munson. Ok, that's C, Y n D I M U N S O n O K. And you can also go to my website, cindymunson.com and find more information about me. Find ways to donate again. Sign up to volunteer. Come travel to the great state of Oklahoma and help me earn those votes that I need to win in November.
- [29:56]
Andy Beshear
Democratic candidate for governor of Oklahoma and regular Andy Beshear podcast listener Cindy Munson. That makes you one of our favorite candidates. Amen.
- [30:06]
Sam Bregman
Good luck.
- [30:07]
Cindy Munson
Love it.
- [30:08]
Andy Beshear
Thanks for being on.
- [30:09]
Cindy Munson
Thank you so much.
- [30:11]
Olivia
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- [30:40]
John Rabinowitz
Ollie,
- [30:43]
Purdue Global Narrator
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- [31:46]
Andy Beshear
Now on the Andy Beshear Podcast, we welcome Sam Bregman of a lifelong Democrat, prosecutor and dedicated public servant who is running to be the next governor of New Mexico. He believes his state can and must be safer, stronger and more prosperous for every family. Sam began his career more than 30 years ago as an assistant district attorney, prosecuting violent criminals and standing up for victims on the Albuquerque City Council. He championed the sexual assault nurse examiner program for survivors and and introduced the state's first hate crime ordinance. He later built a successful legal practice advocating for victims of malpractice and served as the deputy state auditor and chair of the Crime Analysis and Policy Partnership. Appointed county. No, you're going to have to pronounce that for me.
- [32:37]
Sam Bregman
Bernalillo. Bernalillo.
- [32:39]
Andy Beshear
Bernalillino. Okay. Are you going to be able to edit that? Yeah. Appointed Bernalino county district attorney in 2023 and elected in 2024. Sam has taken on violent gangs, crackdown on youth gun crime, enforced zero tolerance for guns in school, invested in mental health and addiction treatment. Sam, that is quite the bio. Welcome to the podcast.
- [33:02]
Sam Bregman
Well, it's great to be here, Governor. Thank you so very, very much.
- [33:06]
Andy Beshear
Being a prosecutor and me being a former prosecutor, I know that you are watching the tactics of ICE in Minnesota and elsewhere very closely. Give us your thoughts.
- [33:19]
Sam Bregman
Well, I think I'm horrified, like the entire country is about what's going on, what we're seeing up in Minnesota, across this country. It's unacceptable. No one should be above the law. Everybody must obey the law, and what we're seeing is unconstitutional. At a minimum, when we're talking about people knocking down doors without judicial warrants, it's extremely concerning. And I've been very clear. I sent a letter here to ice, to their regional office here that we're not going to put up with it here if not only you violate someone's constitutional rights, but if you violate our state statutes, we're going to hold everybody accountable under the law, including ICE agents if necessary.
- [34:02]
Andy Beshear
So, as ag, I worked with state, local, and federal agencies, and I have never seen the type of aggressive tactics, the level of aggressiveness in dealing with the public. Do you think it's an issue of training, or do you think that this is culture being pushed down by their leadership? Who will call someone a domestic terrorist that has an interaction with ICE before they even know what happened?
- [34:29]
Sam Bregman
I think it's both. I'm hearing from law enforcement officers that have left a local agency, gone off because they were lured by a big bonus, if you will, to go join up with ice. They go through a little bit of training, and they come back to New Mexico and say, no, thank you. Don't want any part of that. Because here in New Mexico, we do teach constitutional policing. That's extremely important here. And every law enforcement agency here in New Mexico abides and respects the Constitution. Now, I also think it's a cultural thing, because they are absolutely, I think being told it doesn't matter, just without a warrant, without reasonable suspicion, without probable cause, just go ahead and do what you need to do to get them out of the car, break the window and say, show me your papers. This isn't the country that I grew up in. This is outrageous in so many different ways. And that's why we're taking such a strong stand on it. You know, New Mexico is a majority minority state. We have more Hispanics here than others. And it's extremely important that the Constitution is followed and people are not targeted because of the color of their skin or because they have an accent. It's unacceptable. We're not going to put up with it here.
- [35:51]
Andy Beshear
Well, Sam, this is John McConnell. You built your career as a prosecutor, as you've mentioned. Why is now the moment to run for governor?
- [36:00]
Sam Bregman
Listen, we've been able to get a lot of things done here in the DA's office in a short time. We've just been ranked as one of the best places to work at all of New Mexico, the top 10. We have really focused on making sure that we have a culture to work in, kind of a results oriented office where we want to see the results and we go get those results. I think I can bring the same thing to New Mexico. New Mexico faces so many challenges. We've never lived up to our true potential. And this campaign's being run on the very same issues that people talk about every day at their breakfast table or their dinner table, whether or not it's crime, education, health care, economic opportunity. Right now we're ranked as first in crime and 50th in education. Obviously those two intersect each other. We know that. But we've got a lot of work to do here. And this is a place where I've raised a family. I've had a hell of a career. I've enjoyed every bit of it. I want to make sure every New Mexican has the same kind of opportunities that I, my family, have had here in New Mexico. So it's time and it's time. And I'm at a position in my life where I can give back and that's what I want to do.
- [37:09]
Andy Beshear
Well, Sid, you bring up another point talking about affordability, something everyone's struggling with. And as you've gone across the state, what are your plans to help the citizens?
- [37:20]
Sam Bregman
Listen, I know from personal life experience that the pathway to the middle class is homeownership, for example. And we have folks who are paying $1,500, $2,000 a month for rent if they can't afford the down payment on their first home. And so they're stuck in that apartment with their family, people that need that apartment, can't move in because there's not enough availability of apartments. We have a housing plan that I've put forth that is going to be able to give an opportunity for people to get down payment assistance. These are the kinds of things I think that we have to focus on to be able to work with affordable housing developers, apartments. All of these things we need a lot more of in New Mexico. And I know that, that it's something that New Mexico. You know, oftentimes people think of New Mexico as a poor state. And individually, salary wise, I think that's correct. We don't get paid the wages in New Mexico that people work so hard and rightfully deserve. But we are not a poor state. We have $65 billion of wealth funds that most states would be very jealous of. We're the second largest wealth fund state in the entire country. We have the opportunity to do things to make sure that our people have a better opportunity. And it's expensive out there. People are suffering. As I travel this state, I hear it from everybody, whether or not it's the cost of groceries or housing or making sure we keep electric rates, for example, at an affordable level. And that's something that we should be easily able to do here in New Mexico because we are such a energy producing state. We should have no problem doing that. So there's a lot of issues. Affordability is obviously one of the big ones. And it's what is. When I talk about economic opportunity and development, that's obviously included in that.
- [39:13]
Andy Beshear
You mentioned expensive electric bills. One of our listeners wanted us to ask and put it in the comments. So listeners please hit those comments. Wanted to hear from. From our guests on data centers. It's a hot issue. There is concern about whether it could raise electric bills. I think a lot of that is the approach that a governor takes.
- [39:38]
Sam Bregman
Absolutely. And we want to make sure that first and foremost that the existing citizens of New Mexico don't have electric rates that are going through the roof. And certainly not because of something like a new data center or an AI center or the technology of the future, if you will, because of the huge demands it does have on energy. But we're in a very unique place in New Mexico. Not only are we the second largest producer of oil and gas in the country, but we have as much wind and solar as anybody out there. We have a capacity issue in that we don't have the capacity yet to hold all that electricity. And we also have a transmission issue. But I think we're very capable of Walking and chewing gum at the same time. I think we can do both these things and I think we can do them well. I think we can continue to have economic development such as data centers, but we can also make sure the prices are not going up for the people of New Mexico when it comes to their electric bills. I think we can do both. And we need to continue to increase the number of jobs. We need to have a sign on the side of this state that says we're open for business. And I think that those things are all achievable if we have the right leadership.
- [40:46]
Andy Beshear
So you mentioned your family and I can't help it. Our listeners know that I am a baseball dad. Very proud of Will. I'm also an equestrian dad, very proud of my daughter Lila and her horse Seamus. You know a little bit about being a baseball dad. Tell our listeners about your son Alex, because he's pretty good.
- [41:10]
Sam Bregman
Governor, thank you for that. That's talk about a softball question, if you will. No, listen, I'm very proud though. I have three wonderful children. My oldest is Alex Bregman. He was the third baseman for the Houston Astros. He's won two World Series, has been a three time MLB all star, if you will. He played last year for the Red Sox and just signed in free agency, a five year deal with the Chicago Cubs. Obviously he's a good New Mexico kid and he's made it on the big stage and we're all very, very proud of him here in New Mexico. Obviously I am. But I remember when he was 16 years old, like your son. I remember what it was like, all that travel ball. I remember going to all those ball games and being more nervous about a single at bat that he might be facing in a big game than I would ever be in a courtroom about any case I might have been trying. So I do remember those days and cherish those days and, and whether or not it was high school ball or travel ball or college ball, and now of course in the mlb, it's, it's a real, I mean, I want to get pinched all the time. Somebody wake me up because it's been a real fun, fun time.
- [42:18]
Andy Beshear
There's also all the showcases to go in front and be in front of these college coaches. But the thing they don't tell you is you got to pay for each one. Like you need the major league contract ahead of time just to be able to pay for the opportunities of exposure.
- [42:34]
Sam Bregman
Governor, it's a fortune, isn't it? It's a fortune to take on tour around the for us, it's around the entire Southwest. But I remember going to Perfect Game in Florida, for example. I've been all over the whole country doing exactly what you're experiencing yourself.
- [42:51]
Andy Beshear
So tell our listeners who are outside of New Mexico why they should be watching this race and, and why they should support you.
- [42:58]
Sam Bregman
Listen, New Mexico is a real gem out there. For those of you that have not been to Santa Fe or Albuquerque, I encourage you to come out and see us because we have the best food, the best weather and the best people in the whole world out here. It is a great place. But New Mexico is also a leading energy state in every capacity, in every way. We are also a state with tremendous amount of brain power, whether it's Los Alamos National Labs, Sandia National Labs, New Mexico Tech. We have so much going for us. We're in a perfect position not only to continue a push towards renewable energies, but also a perfect position to have all the foundation in place for the next high tech economy that I think this entire country and world for that matter is going to experience. So New Mexico is really a place on the rise. I'm, I'm really excited about the future of New Mexico.
- [43:52]
Andy Beshear
We like to ask our guests about the why. Not just what they want to do, but why they're in this. What pushed you to become a prosecutor? What's pushing you to run for governor? What guides you in your life? So what is your why?
- [44:09]
Sam Bregman
So for much of my life, I mean obviously my entire adult life, I've been an attorney here in New Mexico. I'm a rule of law kind of guy, believe in the law. And I have been a prosecutor all this time and I've been able, because I've been a lawyer, I've been able to help people. I've always stood up for the little guy, whether or not it's someone who is injured to no fault of their own or wrongfully terminated or wrongfully accused when I was doing private defense work. But also now I have the opportunity to help the entire community when it comes to prosecuting crime and putting violent people away because we can't have violence in our community and we've had too much of a crime problem in the past. We're starting to get a handle on that. But why I do this is because I want New Mexicans to have this very same opportunities and be able to have the same opportunities of success that I've had in New Mexico. The New Mexico has blessed me with so many opportunities, not only just career wise, but to raise a Wonderful family and enjoy the amazing outdoors. This is a very special place and I want to make sure we continue to have the special opportunities for everyone and I'm driven to do that. I don't need this job. I want this job because I want to make a difference and I think we're going to be able to pull this off and make a difference. And I'm really excited about the feature New Mexico.
- [45:32]
Andy Beshear
We also ask our guests please about their secret superpower. Something that you are really good at that no one knows. And you can't use the fact that you're probably the best baseball dad given the outcome.
- [45:47]
Sam Bregman
So I can't mention the fact that my 3 year old grandson, Alex's son also has the best baseball swing in the entire country for any three year old out there right now. That's not.
- [45:57]
Andy Beshear
He has better professional help to be fair.
- [46:00]
Sam Bregman
Well, I've told Alex that's don't mess with my grandson's swing. I've got a proven track record of having a big leaguer in the family and you don't, son. So let me work on that. No, listen, what's my superpower is really my family, to be very frank with you. I've been married to the same wonderful woman for 37 years and my three kids and my four grandkids now I cherish and they give me the the strength every morning to get up and try and change this wonderful state for the better. So I think that's my superpower.
- [46:37]
Andy Beshear
How can our listeners follow your campaign and get involved?
- [46:41]
Sam Bregman
So please, this is a people powered campaign. Our website is bregman f o r n m.com Please reach out, sign up as a volunteer for people in New Mexico. Obviously anybody in the country can donate. There's a donate button on that. We need to make sure this wonderful state stays blue and we have strong leadership that actually gets some results done and is willing at every single opportunity to stand up against Donald Trump and the chaos that's coming out of Washington.
- [47:17]
Andy Beshear
When you have a free day or a free night, what do you and your family like to do?
- [47:24]
Sam Bregman
Well, obviously if it's a free night, we're probably watching baseball. This, this year it'll be watching the Cubs. But when I have free time, which isn't a lot lately, but I continue to try and strive towards getting a free day every now and then I have a couple of quarter horses that I like to get on and go ride out in the middle of nowhere and, and then really let the world go away for a little bit. Of time. And. And I love riding horses. I've done it my entire adult life. I really do enjoy that. But hanging out with the family and watching baseball or watching the horses run, those are all fun things.
- [47:58]
Andy Beshear
I think we've identified another secret superpower because my first job was mucking stalls. And if you can muck a stall, you can handle politics.
- [48:08]
Sam Bregman
Absolutely. Because there's a lot of BS you put on a wheelbarrow and then you have to put up with all the BS in politics as well.
- [48:14]
Andy Beshear
Right, Sam, Best of luck and thanks for being on the podcast, Governor.
- [48:19]
Sam Bregman
Thank you. Thank you all very, very much. Appreciate it.
- [48:21]
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- [48:51]
Purdue Global Narrator
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- [49:56]
Andy Beshear
You're listening to the Andy Beshear Podcast. This week, the return of our segment called Statement of the Case. Except in this instance, it's going to be the statement of a whole lot of important cases. I'm joined by Sky Perryman, the CEO of Democracy Forward. Democracy Forward is a nonpartisan legal organization that promotes democracy through litigation, regulatory engagement, communications, policy, education and Research. She was named as One of the 2025100 Most Influential People in the world by Time magazine. I only made their next list, so congratulations. Since January 2025, Democracy Ford has played a leading role in inspiring courage and in protecting the American people from harmful and unlawful federal executive action. Sky, welcome to the podcast.
- [50:48]
Sky Perryman
Thanks for having me.
- [50:50]
Andy Beshear
I'll start off by telling our listeners a little bit about your organization and how it stands up to this administration when it violates the law.
- [51:02]
Sky Perryman
Well, we are motivated by the ability to protect the American people and to promote democracy. And we know that one of the main powers that people in this country have is the ability to have their rights that the Constitution protects and to go to court if the government violates their rights. And so at Democracy Forward, we have been quite busy because this federal government, led by Vice President Vance, have been violating people's rights every day. And so we have been in court every day. We represent all of our clients free of charge. And our goal is simple. It's to make sure that people and communities in this country are protected during this difficult time.
- [51:41]
Andy Beshear
So, as governor, I've joined with AG's of other states on a number of important actions that you've also been a part of. One of the ones I'm most grateful for, your service is, is the SNAP case that in the government shutdown, Donald Trump became the first president to ever refuse to fund food assistance for people going hungry in the United States. Tell our listeners a little bit about that case.
- [52:07]
Sky Perryman
Well, thank you so much, Governor, for being part of that case. Just like you said, there are 42 million people in this country that rely on SNAP in order to be able to make ends meet and provide for their family. The majority of these folks are working people who need this extra assistance. And the President played politics with people's livelihoods and with their food benefits. And so we were able, and you all were able in a coalition case that we all filed to get into court and to stop that and to send a clear message that this president can. You can't play politics with people's lives. The President fought tooth and nail and went all the way up to the Supreme Court to try to block the court orders that you all and that we were able to secure for people
- [52:55]
Andy Beshear
in this country so that he could not feed people.
- [52:58]
Sky Perryman
It was so correct, it was so unlawful, but also so morally bankrupt. Yeah.
- [53:04]
Andy Beshear
And in that case, you know, there were both the two actions going. But you're right when he got the order that said you must fully fund snap he appealed it to the First Circuit so that he could withhold that money, withhold those benefits, and people go hungry. Another area that I know the American people are worried about are the aggressive actions that are being taken by ice. And I get questions saying, if they surge in Kentucky, how do you push back? Well, Democracy Forward has been on the front lines of that fight. Tell our listeners how you've taken ICE to court in numerous situations.
- [53:42]
Sky Perryman
Yeah, if they come to Kentucky, we'll be there with you, Governor, and we'll make sure we push back. So the administration is operating completely unlawfully. This is not an agenda about immigration enforcement at all. It is about cruelty and terror, and it's about the president trying to consolidate power. And so we have been in court across the country. We have sued and restored people's access to a lawyer that the federal government tried to take away. We have sued to block policies that ICE has been implementing that keep kids away from their family members. We actually just filed another suit today on this point. We have been, you know, in court because ICE tried to keep members of Congress out of federal facilities, did not want members of Congress to see what they were doing. And so we've secured a court order there. And so our commitment to the American people is that we will go to court and make sure that their rights are protected when ICE or armed federal agents come, you know, harm them in unlawful ways.
- [54:44]
Andy Beshear
Our listeners know that faith is very important to me. You have actually filed an action to try to proceed prohibit ICE from walking on. On the grounds of or into houses of worship.
- [54:59]
Sky Perryman
Yes, it's really important to us, too. So we have filed two court cases on behalf of coalitions of religious churches and houses of worship, including the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, Quaker Meeting Houses, Sikh temples, and so many others. We have achieved court orders in both cases keeping eye mice out of these sacred spaces. They still continue to try to intimidate communities across the country. So we still have a lot more work to do. An essential part of our work. And when you mentioned faith, Governor, in the SNAP case, we represented coalitions of churches that were going in to try to protect people's SNAP benefits. It was a really beautiful message to send. And then that tells you how horrible it was that the President is sort of, you know, on the other side of churches that are just trying to feed people or enable people to worship freely.
- [55:49]
Andy Beshear
The miracle, the fishes and the loaves is so important. It's in the first four books of the gospel. It tells us that there should be enough for everyone. But this president did everything he could to make sure that was not the case. So the American people are really worried right now about the upcoming elections. They see what happened in Georgia where agents went in and seized ballots. Tell us what Democracy Forward is doing to make sure we're going to have full and fair elections.
- [56:19]
Sky Perryman
We are doing a lot. We are looking at what the president is doing and making sure as he tries to distract and make all these statements and things that people, you know, think are unbelievable. We believe that he's actually up to quite a nefarious attempt to undermine and to subvert our elections. We sued DOGE in a number of cases last year because they were in federal agencies and taking the American people's data. The Department of Justice lied to the court and filed papers in court that said that DOGE officials didn't have access to the American people's data. They've now come clean in our cases and have said that actually these officials did have access to our personal data and that one DOGE team member signed a voter date data agreement with a third party organization that by the government's own admission has been involved in trying to overturn state election results. So we believe that the president's schemes likely go far beyond even what the mainstream media is reporting right now. We are investigating it. We will go to court, and we will protect people's data and protect people from the. In trying to subvert the election, we are also going to be prepared for if the President tries to militarize cities and communities across the country right before the election to try to create manufactured crises, to somehow delay the election. So you'll see us engaged in all of these things. We want to make sure that every American knows that we will do everything in our power to protect their right to vote.
- [57:48]
Andy Beshear
I think the President repeatedly underestimates the American people. You know, if he tries to militarize or put agents around the voting locations, I know we will push back. We will go to court. But I think you would see huge lines of Americans, I think that they would be singing in those lines because you don't take away somebody's right to vote.
- [58:12]
Sky Perryman
That's right. He underestimates the American people. Do you remember back in October when he came out with a bunch of statements at the White House and said that if people showed up to just peacefully march in the street, street with their families and say no kings, which seems to be an appropriate slogan for the country's 250th year, but he said that those people would be seen as un Americans or as enemies of the state tried to intimidate people. The American people showed up in the largest single mobilization of people in this country's history after those threats. And we saw people in the streets in Minneapolis taking care of their neighbors, businesses closing, doing everything they could. So we believe that, too, that he really underestimates the power of the American people. But it's going to be a year where we're going to need every single American to do what they can to make it clear to this president that we are going to vote and that we're going to demand that our votes be counted.
- [59:04]
Andy Beshear
With all this important work, how can our listeners follow and support your organization?
- [59:09]
Sky Perryman
Well, we would love to have you follow us. So we're on all social media channels. Democracy4Forward if you go to our website, democracy forward.org, you can sign up for our newsletter. We do not spam you, I promise. We want to keep you updated. And if you click get involved. We have a number of things you can do in your own community, from hosting your neighbors to plan how to take action, to staying engaged, to signing pledges. We've got lots for folks to engage in. So democracyforward.org sign up for our newsletter. Follow us on social media.
- [59:41]
Andy Beshear
Scott, thanks for your important work. Thank you for protecting our people and stepping up to make sure we have fair elections. And most importantly, in this moment. Thanks for joining the podcast.
- [59:53]
Sky Perryman
Thank you.
- [59:58]
Andy Beshear
Here on the Andy Beshear Podcast, we have a segment called In My Kentucky Accent. It's where I talk about what's on my heart and on my mind. And this week I want to talk about the Supreme Court finally doing its job, upholding the rule of law. I'm talking about the case where they ruled against the president saying he does not have the power to unilaterally set tariffs the way he's been doing it. Tariffs are a tax on the American people. And we've already seen the numbers, the receipts that show that we, the American people and our American businesses are are paying 90% of the cost of every tariff Donald Trump is putting in place. So, yes, Donald Trump has been raising our taxes and changing our taxes at his whim for far too long now. It should stop. Donald Trump's at the bottom of the hole. He should stop digging. But guess what? He's doubling and tripling down after the Supreme Court has told him he's violating the Constitution. He is breaking the law. Is he going to try to do it right? Probably not. But it's going to be a lot harder for him moving forward. Remember, this president has to follow the law just like everybody else. How do I know the Supreme Court just told him so? Hey, everybody, it's me and John Rabinowitz. John, you know what I can't get enough of?
- [61:18]
John Rabinowitz
What's that?
- [61:19]
Andy Beshear
Merch from the Andy Beshear podcast.
- [61:21]
John Rabinowitz
I'll tell you what. We got hats. We got mugs. We got polos.
- [61:26]
Andy Beshear
New polos, brand new.
- [61:28]
John Rabinowitz
Got sweatshirts.
- [61:29]
Andy Beshear
Don't bag. Don't forget those tote bags.
- [61:32]
John Rabinowitz
Listen, there's zero percent chance of me using a tote bag. But my three daughters. Absolutely.
- [61:37]
Andy Beshear
They are all made in the usa. They are union printed. And Winnie Merch is on the way. Head over to andybashearpodcast.com, click on the merch store and order now.
- [61:48]
John Rabinowitz
It's going to be really depressing when Winnie outsells us five to one.
- [61:51]
Andy Beshear
Oh, at least five to one. Get ready for it.
- [61:54]
John Rabinowitz
Oh, no.
- [62:13]
Cindy Munson
Cloudless sky.
- [62:14]
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