Suzanne Lambert, Maya Wiley and How To Fight Back For Real

Summary

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Andy Beshear Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Suzanne Lambert, Maya Wiley and How To Fight Back For Real
Date: July 16, 2026
Host: Andy Beshear
Guests: Suzanne Lambert, Maya Wiley

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Episode Overview

This episode of the Andy Beshear Podcast brings together two guests tackling America's most urgent issues from sharply different approaches—but with a shared sense of urgency and commitment. First, Suzanne Lambert, the comedian and social commentator known as the “Regina George Liberal,” discusses the power of humor and "fighting mean with mean" in modern politics and online activism. Later, Maya Wiley, civil rights lawyer and President & CEO of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights, delves into the Trump administration’s threats to legal norms, specifically DOJ nominee Todd Blanche, and the attacks on both nonprofits and civil rights organizations like the Southern Poverty Law Center. The result is a candid, insightful, and often funny conversation about what it means to really fight for democracy and inclusion in today’s America.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Suzanne Lambert: From Young Republican to "Mean But True"

[02:50–37:03]

Background & Journey

• Suzanne grew up in gun-loving, conservative Kennesaw, Georgia—"it's the law in Kennesaw" to own a weapon, she explains. She was president of her high school Young Republicans before a sequence of experiences—particularly an unplanned pregnancy in her 20s (04:06)—caused her to question and then rapidly shift her political ideology.
• Comedy, she says, provided a space for listening and vulnerability:
  “I got to hear people talk about their own experiences in a way where I didn’t feel like I had to be defensive... That is really where it unraveled for me.” (04:36)

Standup and Political Comedy

• Suzanne’s first stand-up set was at a sold-out DC Improv show about which she quips: “I do not suggest this at all... The first time I ever performed stand up was at a sold out show at the DC Improv in front of 300 people. ...Not going to lie, I killed it.” (05:30)
• Initially avoided political material, concerned about cancel culture and purity tests among progressives (07:03–07:56).
• Critiques difference between material that works on stage vs. online, and her creative process (“If you go to the Notes app in my phone, if you didn’t know what I did for a living, you’d be like—this person is crazy.” [08:48])

Viral Hits & Making “Mean” Her Brand

• Her “Republican makeup” video unexpectedly went viral months after release, “got a Wikipedia page,” and was covered internationally (11:07).
• Embraces her “mean girl liberal” image: “If a male comedian said [certain things], no one would bat an eye. But when it’s a woman who looks like me... people will just call it mean.” (22:20)
• “I’m not trying to win the best liberal competition. … I am not ideologically perfect … I have never set out to kind of win over the approval of everybody.” (22:59)

Southern Democrats & Fighting Back

• Discusses misconceptions the national party has about the South: “People talk about us like we’re dumb—like we didn’t birth the civil rights movement.” (12:56)
• Argues that embarrassment and humor are powerful tools against political opponents:
  “Embarrassment can be a really helpful political tool... I bought the domain name vanceforpresident.com … even Republicans were like, this is hysterical.” (17:03)
• On political divides:
  “No one is 100% anything... The Democratic Party should have a little space for that type of democracy.” (24:25–25:18)

On Connecting With Youth & Political Messaging

• Advises politicians to not chase internet trends, but recognize young people’s frustrations are real:
  “All those things—marriage, homeownership—are financially inconceivable for the average Gen Z’er. … They feel lied to and tricked.” (31:13)
• Calls for clarity and directness in messaging: “We assume everyone is as chronically online as we are. They’re not... We talk at an elevation that is not accessible to a normal person.” (26:45–28:40)

On Voter Motivation

• On persuading non-voters:
  “If your vote was not so important, people wouldn't be trying so damn hard to take it away from you. … So if you can't vote out of excitement... vote out of spite and pettiness, knowing that they don't want you to.” (36:02)

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2. News Roundtable: Iran, Domestic Policy, and Public Trust

[38:10–59:50]

Panel includes Andy Beshear, John McConnell (insurance agent/small business owner), and Jerina Weathers (Commonwealth Attorney, Jefferson County KY).

Iran & Foreign Policy

• Ongoing cycle of conflict with Iran, U.S. policy unpredictability, hardship for ordinary Americans via gas prices, tariffs, and market shocks.
• Beshear, critiquing Trump administration:
  “When you find yourself at the bottom of a hole, stop digging. This administration seems to double down.” (41:21)
• Congressional avoidance of War Powers oversight (42:26)

Housing Crisis

• Bipartisan housing bill faces Trump veto—housing affordability and regulatory barriers discussed.
  “People will say, yes, we need more housing, but not near me... How many generations can live with the average age of first-time home ownership now reaching 40?” (46:05)

Mental Health & Youth

• The serious impact of limited mental health support, especially for justice-involved youth and those losing SNAP/Medicaid coverage (50:32–51:37).

Transparency & Public Officials

• On Mitch McConnell’s health scare:
  “If you just let [the speculation] continue, it gets more and more and more difficult... the Internet pushing these conspiracy theories—it starts almost seeming like fact.” (58:11)

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3. Maya Wiley: Civil and Human Rights Under Threat

[59:50–71:54]

DOJ Nominee Todd Blanche & Rule of Law

• Wiley highlights the danger of Trump’s nominee, describing Blanche as another appointee acting as Trump’s personal lawyer, not as “the nation’s top lawyer for the people.” (60:14)
• Over 1200 DOJ alumni signing a letter to reject Blanche is “an unprecedented statement… a warning bell for everyone in this country, no matter your political party.” (62:11)

Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) Indictment

• The Trump administration has indicted SPLC for legally providing anti-hate intelligence to law enforcement, which Wiley describes as “beyond absurd... trying to flip the script and suggest the groups that are going after hate crimes were the ones who were trying to create them.” (65:30)
• Wiley: “It was a way, in my view, of whitewashing White supremacy—of trying to stop legitimate civil rights work.” (66:50)

Nonprofit Sector Attacks

• Trump administration efforts to strip nonprofits’ status, label advocacy groups as “domestic terrorists.”
• Wiley urges listeners:
  “Stand with services and advocacy for communities, rights and needs, rather than trying to weaponize government against them... Every person has the ability to raise their voice.” (69:11, 71:03)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Suzanne Lambert on Comedy and Change:
  "Comedy was how I could hear without feeling defensive. That’s why I use it now—I know how effective it can be." ([04:36])

• Andy Beshear on Southern Democrats:
  "We've been overlooked, we've been left out, we've been looked down upon. But we now have three Democratic governors in the South… we fought for a seat back at the table.” ([15:50])

• Suzanne Lambert, on Democratic Messaging:
  "I'm not trying to win the best liberal competition. … I am not ideologically perfect … I have never set out to kind of win over the approval of everybody." ([22:59])

• Maya Wiley, on the Trump DOJ:
  "The Department of Justice is supposed to be the nation’s top lawyer. Instead, we have a persecution machine rather than a prosecution machine.” ([60:14])

• Maya Wiley, on the civil rights struggle:
  "All we’re saying is stand with services and advocacy for communities, rights and needs, rather than trying to weaponize government against them.” ([69:11])

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Important Timestamps

• 02:50: Suzanne Lambert introduced; discusses growing up conservative.
• 04:06: Lambert's personal turning point on reproductive rights.
• 07:03: Navigating political jokes, fear of "cancel culture."
• 11:07: Story behind the viral "Republican makeup" video.
• 12:56: On misconceptions about the South in national politics.
• 17:03: Using humor and public embarrassment as a political tool.
• 22:20: On being called “mean” as a woman in political commentary.
• 31:13: How to (not) connect with younger Americans.
• 36:02: How to motivate checked-out voters.
• 41:21: Analogy about public policy—stop digging when in a hole.
• 46:05: The roots of America's housing crisis.
• 50:32: Challenges of youth mental health in the justice system.
• 58:11: On transparency and political rumors.
• 60:14: Maya Wiley on the Blanche DOJ nomination dangers.
• 65:30: The indictment of the Southern Poverty Law Center.
• 69:11: Attacks on nonprofits and how listeners can support civil rights.

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Conclusion: Episode Takeaways

• Fight smart, not just nice: Suzanne Lambert and Maya Wiley represent distinctly different but equally critical modes of fighting for progress—one with wit, the other with legal tactics and relentless advocacy.
• Don't underestimate humor or directness: Both guests underscore the power of stating the plain truth, whether with a punchline or a brief.
• Engagement matters: Whether it’s voting “out of spite” or standing up for threatened organizations, the podcast offers tangible calls to action and reassurances that individual participation does, indeed, matter.

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For full episodes, candid moments, and action resources, find the Andy Beshear Podcast on all major platforms, or visit civilrights.org for more on Maya Wiley’s work.

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Transcript

[Suzanne Lambert]

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[Andy Beshear]

Hey everybody, and welcome back to the Andy Beshear Podcast. Today is a good one. I've got two guests who couldn't come at this moment from more different angles, but who are both, in their own way, fighting for the same thing. First up is Suzanne Lambert. You probably know her as the creator behind Mean but True, where she's built a following of over a million people with a simple idea. Democrats have spent too long being polite while the other side plays dirty. She grew up a conservative Republican in Georgia, spent years doing stand up comedy, and now she's using both of those instincts, the political fluency and the comedic timing to say the quiet part out loud. We're going to get into why she thinks nice hasn't been working and what she thinks Democrats still don't understand why about how to actually reach people. Then I'm joined by Maya Wiley, President and CEO of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights. That's the nation's oldest civil rights coalition. Maya spent her career in the middle of the biggest fights over justice and democracy in this country. Right now she's tracking something serious. The confirmation hearings for Trump's pick for Attorney general, an unprecedented indictment of the Southern Poverty Law center, and a wave of pressure coming down on nonprofits across the country. She's going to walk us through what's actually happening. So one guest fighting with humor, one fighting with the law, but the same fight. So let's get into it. Our first guest this week on the Andy Beshear Podcast is Suzanne Lambert. Suzanne is a D.C. based comedian, Internet personality and general menace. Known as the Regina George Liberal. She delivers engaging and biting wit to an audience of over 1 million fans across TikTok and Instagram. Her style could best be described as quick, sharp, amused bewilderment. She pairs strangely strong opinions about inconsequential topics with beauty tips and hot political takes. Originally hailing from Georgia, she had a very normal upbringing in a gun loving Bible Belt town and remains unaffected to this day. Suzanne, welcome to the Podcast.

[Suzanne Lambert]

So great to be here, Gov. Thanks for having me.

[Andy Beshear]

Well, that was one of the most fun intros that I've gotten to read, so I'm looking forward to this interview. I've got to start with how you grew up. So you grew up in Kennesaw, Georgia?

[Suzanne Lambert]

The one and only. For those unfamiliar. The slogan of my hometown is it's the law in Kennesaw. Which means it's the. It's actually a city ordinance to own. I don't know if I can say the G word on here. A weapon in Kennesaw. It's not enforced, but just to give people an idea of, like, just how deeply read and conservative that area was growing up. I'm one of six kids, and we were kind of an outlier. We were. We were Catholic. You know, it was mostly like very, very Protestant evangel. A very evangelical area. Right. And I was actually the president of my Young Republicans club in high school because I think that if I was going to be, you know, insufferable, I was going to be the most insufferable.

[Andy Beshear]

Yeah, we can.

[Suzanne Lambert]

How do you move.

[Andy Beshear]

How do you move from being president of your high school Young Republicans to being outspoken on the other side?

[Maya Wiley]

You.

[Suzanne Lambert]

Yeah, I mean, you know, for me, it was. It was definitely a sequence of events. It wasn't something that happened overnight. One major event in particular that I think is where it. A thread started unraveling a little bit, was that I had an unintended pregnancy in my 20s, which is not something I had ever expected or pictured for myself. And I, up until that point viewed reproductive choice. I was very, very anti. Right. And it's kind of crazy how that can all be undone literally in an instant. For me, it was undone in an instant. And then when something like that happens, you're like, okay, if I was maybe misinformed or deliberately misinformed, right, about these topics, what. What else am I wrong about? And it was actually when I started doing standup comedy more, and I got to hear people talk about their own experiences in a way where I didn't feel like I had to be defensive. I. I didn't have to respond, and I could laugh. Right. That is really where it all unraveled very quickly. And that's why, you know, using comedy as a way to talk about things is so important for me now because I know how effective it can really be.

[Andy Beshear]

Doing standup comedy is hard, and it takes courage. What was it like that very first time you got up and wondered, are they going to respond or am I going to bomb.

[Suzanne Lambert]

You want to know something? This is crazy. Then. This is crazy. I don't, I do not suggest this at all. My approach to this. So. So I took a class at the DC Improv, which I will say, some comics will say that's hack to take a class, whatever. I don't think it's very hack that. I sold out the main showroom of the DC Improv earlier this year, right. So, you know, it's been a seven year journey, but I did it. But I took a class. And at the end of the class, you're showcases on the DC Improv main stage, which is such a cool experience. And I, I don't know what it was. I was too nervous to do any open mics before it, which again, I don't suggest. So the first time I ever performed stand up was at a sold out show at the DC Improv in front of 300 people. And I was absolutely freaking out. Not going to lie, I killed it. I walked directly off stage, went right to the bar and was like, I need a shot of tequila now. And that bartender Louise and I are still like this all those years later. But I tend to get nerves, actually more after the show because I'll be like, why did I say that like that? Why didn't I follow up with this? I almost get retroactive nerves, if that makes sense.

[Andy Beshear]

Only thing that would have made that story better is if it was bourbon.

[Suzanne Lambert]

I was gonna say I should. I should have said bourbon. I knew that was gonna come up. Wow. It only took seven minutes. That's amazing.

[Andy Beshear]

Well, you know, we gotta sell our products. So when you start, when you started doing standup comedy, were you talking about politics or something else funny enough?

[Suzanne Lambert]

Not at all. I. It's so funny. When I started doing standup and a lot of standups are like this, we take ourselves so seriously. Right. I remember I didn't cuss on stage, which is very funny to think about. Now I would, I would only wear black for some reason, again, taking myself way too seriously. And I wouldn't talk about politics. Those were like my three rules for myself. And it wasn't that I didn't have strong political opinions. It was more so one, I wasn't really sure how to make that funny yet. But two, on the left, you know, we're not always the most open to hearing from people who might have had certain experiences in the past. And I wouldn't say that that's widespread, but there, you know, there's a certain sect of every political affiliation the concern

[Andy Beshear]

where I was just the concern about purity tests and cancel.

[Suzanne Lambert]

Yeah. And I don't want to get canceled. That's really what it was. Right. Because what, what. It's so interesting too, what flies on a stand up stage versus online. It's like people, the things people get mad about online, they would never get mad at if you were seeing it in person. And I think about that a lot. I find that really interesting. But no, I didn't talk about politics. And also in being in dc, being a DC comic, some of the jokes can get real, real repeatable really quickly. So I wanted to stand out in a way. It's still not like the fixture of my jokes, but certainly I do talk about it much more now.

[Andy Beshear]

You said it's very different what hits on a stage versus online. Who, who do you run your material

[John McConnell]

past

[Suzanne Lambert]

when it, when it comes to online? Nobody. That's. That's all.

[Andy Beshear]

You just let it fly?

[Suzanne Lambert]

I just let it fly. Yeah. And typically it's like I'll kind of be mulling it over the same way that I do with stand up jokes. Right. Often I think of ideas in pieces or even like sometimes with videos in particular, there will be like a certain word I really want to use. Or I'm like, oh, this is a good, this is a good premise for a video. But I don't, I don't fully have it fleshed out yet. And then sometimes it'll just hit you right where you're like, ah, that if you, if you go to the Notes app in my phone, if you didn't know what I did for a living, you'd be like, this person is crazy. Because it's just like a bunch of one sentence notes that make absolutely no sense to anyone else. But for, for online or. But for onstage jokes, like my, my tour that's kicking off in August, I have a ton of comic friends. I was actually texting one earlier. I'm writing a joke about the congressional baseball game. And I was like, hey, no offense, I know you don't know a lot about politics. Does this joke, like, make sense to you? And we were kind of workshopping it, but also the crowd will let you know. So I go to these open mics, you know, where people don't necessarily know who I am. I'm just like any other comic on the lineup. And if they're not laughing, that's really good feedback as well. So.

[Andy Beshear]

So tell me about your online posts, about something you posted that you thought would just kill and didn't and something that you thought maybe it won't, but it just gained steam and had a big response.

[Suzanne Lambert]

That's a. I love that question. I've never been asked that question.

[Andy Beshear]

Yeah, that's why we're the Andy Bashir podcast.

[Suzanne Lambert]

And that's why you're the best at what you do. Exactly. So one video that I didn't. It's not that I didn't think it would hit. I just was like, I'm doing this for me. And I think that's where the best art comes from. My, My standup teacher said the best advice I've ever gotten creatively is what can't you wait to tell them? Tell them that that's my guiding principle for everything I post online, everything I say on stage. But I did a video where I, I, I kind of called out some, some of the haters in my comment section, and I, I termed this phenomenon Republican makeup. And I went through and I did my makeup routine, right? Because there is a certain kind of look. I filmed that in August or in October 2024. It got like, you know, maybe like 100k view, you know, whatever, kind of moved on. But the Internet is so funny. It absolutely blew up, like, three months later. And I mean, it has a Wikipedia page now. Right. That kind of became one of the things that launched my career. They talked about it overseas in Italy and Finland. Like, I'm getting all these links sent to me of these different publications talking about this, like, beauty phenomenon that is now forever associated with me. So that was wild. And then something that I thought would hit but didn't. That's a good.

[Jerina Weathers]

Okay.

[Suzanne Lambert]

And I love it, by the way. I stand by it. I did this video ranking my favorite fast food french fries that I thought was really compelling, interesting content, and it didn't do that well. And you know what? I don't care because I liked it.

[Andy Beshear]

Who was number one?

[Suzanne Lambert]

Bojangles.

[Andy Beshear]

Who was last?

[Suzanne Lambert]

Have you had them?

[Andy Beshear]

I have not.

[Suzanne Lambert]

I only did like my top five. I will say I do think Chick Fil A's are overhyped. And I. And I am from Georgia. Right. I do love chick Fil A. Their. Their fries aren't doing it for me. I think they could do better in the fry department. But I love Bojangles and I love checkers fries. Haven't gotten them in years. But I do like their fries too. What. What's your favorite?

[Andy Beshear]

Ooh, don't eat a lot of fast food. I found out that I'm on the road so much that if I give in to that, it starts adding up pretty quickly.

[Suzanne Lambert]

Tell me about it.

[Andy Beshear]

Yeah.

[Suzanne Lambert]

Yep.

[Andy Beshear]

So you mentioned you're from Georgia, so we're both Southern Democrats. Tell us and our listeners what you think the national party or others get wrong about the South. We've been overlooked. We've been left out. We've been looked down upon.

[Suzanne Lambert]

That part, I would say, most of all. The way that people talk about the south as if we weren't the birthplace of the civil rights movement and so many other movements that have been absolutely integral and foundational to politics also, as if the south has not been gerrymandered to hell and back. I mean, look, look at what happened this year, right? I think in general, people, people talk about us like, like we're dumb and like we're stupid. And they also. And I think this is. It's hard to explain to people who were no shade to Connecticut, grew up in Connecticut in a very blue town who were only surrounded by these things. It's hard to explain to people just how effective the propaganda machine is in these pockets of the South. Right. I mean, I think about. And like. And it's nothing to do with any particular religion, right? But it's like the, the sponsor for. Well, first of all, my, my history teacher was the football coach and we love football, right? But he had no business teaching history. He was literally hired to coach football. And they're like, hey, also. Also teach history.

[Andy Beshear]

At one time, my math teacher was the football coach. Also didn't work out very well.

[Suzanne Lambert]

How are you? How good are you at math, by the way?

[Maya Wiley]

You must be pretty good.

[Andy Beshear]

I could have been better.

[Suzanne Lambert]

I mean, honestly. Listen, I. When I got to college and I learned about things like the murder of Emmett Till, my mind was blown because we did not learn about that and we just didn't learn about it. I was genuinely taught. And everyone's experiences are going to look different. I'm not saying everyone in the south has this experience. I, that's my disclaimer for this podcast, right? This is, this is just my personal experience. And it's like that all of our after school activities after the football game, right. The church down the street would sponsor the pizza after the football game. Guess what political leanings all of those people have, right? So I think that people vastly underestimate that. I mean, really, it touched every part of my life, this kind of like, conservative process propaganda machine. And we can't look down on people who, as they get older, adapt new perspectives. And I would say, I think really the Internet is not Indicative of how people actually feel in real life. No one, no one. I know and I, you know, I know every left leaning influencer pretty much that you would actually want to listen to. No one would ever look down on anyone for like having been Republican. That is a very common experience. And I think that we, that's why I talk about it so much because there's a lot of people who relate to me, especially people from the South. But yeah, I think people just look, look at us like, like we're dumb and stupid either because we're from the south or because we ever may have had one perspective and then changed our minds as adults.

[Jerina Weathers]

Yeah.

[Andy Beshear]

And I'd add that the national Republican Party invested hundreds of millions of dollars in the south demonizing Democrats when there was no counter spending by the national Democratic Party. But, but I'm proud of Southern Democrats because we now have three governors that are Democrats in the South. Georgia gave us two U.S. senators. I think we're going to elect Roy Cooper in North Carolina, Keisha Lance Bottoms in Georgia. And so I think we fought for a seat back at the table and

[Suzanne Lambert]

we, I mean it's, it's such an upward fight and climb for all of the reasons I mentioned earlier. Right. Especially with, with gerrymandering in the South. And I mean, there's so many people in the south who have done such amazing work to make that a reality. So I think you're totally right. I think there's a lot of really exciting momentum.

[Andy Beshear]

So I think you've tapped into something we hear from a lot of folks out there in that they want to see the fight. They want to see Democrats bring the fight in many ways in the way that Republicans are fighting right back at them. And you've talked about fighting mean with mean. So talk a little bit about that.

[Suzanne Lambert]

You want to know a really funny example?

[Andy Beshear]

Sure.

[Suzanne Lambert]

So this is probably one of my favorite videos. It might actually be my favorite video I've ever made. Yeah. So I, well, I guess I can start more generally. Yeah, I mean, I think that again, this also goes back to the south, especially for women. I think women in the south, especially around this, you know, certain kind of purity culture that even is very persistent on every side of the political spectrum. It was always like, well, when they go low, we go high. That was always kind of the messaging. Right. And after the 2024 presidential election, I was like, look, we, we already lost. I think that we need to actually have a little bit more frank and honest conversations about what some of this actually is because And, Governor, you're. You're a lot, I would say, nicer than me. Right. I think that embarrassment can actually be a really helpful political tool. I think peer pressure and embarrassment can actually be very powerful when paired together. So an example of me doing this, there were murmurs for ages ago about J.D. vance potentially running for president. Right. This is before it actually became more of a likely reality. So I bought the domain name vance for president.com and I basically set it up. I think I just put kind of, like, silly kind of memes on it or whatever. And then when he did start to talk about it more, I made a video, you know, being like, hey, I'm already ready. I'm queued up for your presidential run. And, I mean, the page got, like, millions of views, right? And it's. And it's like, it's harmless. No one's hurt by this. Even. Even Republicans are like, this is hysterical. And then when Spotify wrapped was a big thing, you know, where it's like, they tell you your top songs and genres and everything. I did a JD Rapped that's still on there with, like, some of his most embarrassing moments from the year. Kind of like what. What a Daily show might do. Right? But. But putting my own spin on it, because I do think that laughing at them is something that they really don't like. I mean, I think about the joint address last year that I was lucky enough to attend with Representative Lauren Underwood, who's an incredible congresswoman out of Illinois, if your listeners aren't familiar. She's passed 19 pieces of legislation, which is a crazy number. It was like, within the first 10 minutes, President Trump was like, well, none of you Democrats are going to clap for me. Hall, which is so transparent, into what's going on in his head, too, like, oh, you really, really want that approval? I think withholding that approval and instead laughing at them publicly can actually be very, very powerful. And he kind of admitted it himself.

[Andy Beshear]

I think the other thing that was wild to me about that speech is he goes in and thinks it's a battle between Republicans and Democrats in that room when he's talking to 100 million Americans, or maybe not quite that many, that he would actually have such a small mindset that it was right there about owning the Democrats in Congress as opposed to actually leading America as his

[Suzanne Lambert]

first major speech, which I think has really set the tone for his presidency. And I think why people are so fed up, it's just, like, cl. Classless. I mean, even his tribute to Senator Lindsey Graham, who's obviously not my favorite person. Did you. His tweet was just like so sad exclamation point. Like it's, it's. And then of course he's he said awful things when Democrats have have passed away. Just a total lack of class that I think everyone, everyone is sick of except for like really the most morally decrepit people you could think of, which I think are much smaller. I think in general, no one wants to see that Oregon parks make an Oregon Summer. But what makes an Oregon park? Well, Oregon Lottery gameplay helps no matter the game. Megabucks, video lottery or keno funds from lottery games help support parks projects across the state, ensuring they stay safe, accessible and open for all. In fact, Discover State Park Scratches are in stores now. It's the perfect way to put a little bit of Oregon's parks in your pocket. The Oregon Lottery Together we do good things. Must be 18 or older to play. Lottery games are based on chance and should be played for entertainment only. You're more than just one thing. And your vehicle should have more too. More connectivity when you're the boss. Hey Google, when's my next meeting? More space when you're the ringleader and we're good. And when you're the mom. Everyone in the all new Mazda CX5 more to move every side of you. Learn [e-mail] Google is a trademark of Google LLC. Sequences shortened and simulated.

[Andy Beshear]

You talked about the challenge of being a woman and political commentary. And maybe you mentioned comedy too. Has that changed when suddenly you have over a million followers that you can

[Suzanne Lambert]

talk to directly in terms of has it changed what I say? No, I. It is frustrating. I will say as a comedian who is a woman and who also looks the way I do, I do think that that has something to do with it. There are things that if a male comedian said them, no one would would bat an eye. But I when you see it coming from a woman and a woman who looks like me, instead of it being funny, which it is, people will just call it mean. Which was one of the reasons why when I was kind of branding myself, when I started making this a thing, I was like, yeah, I'm the mean girl liberal. Not because I'm actually a mean person, I'm not. But because that is so frequently weaponized, especially by conservatives. Because this is, this is what they do. We, we try to fight back a little bit and they'll say something like, oh, I thought you guys were the party of love and kindness. It's like a way to oppress People or repress people, I would say kind of make them repress their thoughts and feelings and emotions. And I'm like, well, you thought wrong, right? I'm not. And I've said from the get go, I'm like, look, I'm not trying to win the best liberal competition. That's. Maybe some of you have decided that's, that's a competition that exists, but I am not. I am not ideologically perfect. I still shop at big box stores that some of you probably think I shouldn't. And you know what? Okay. I'm doing the best I can. I think most people are doing the best they can. I have never set out to kind of win over the approval of everybody. I've been very deliberate about the audience I want to attract, and I'm so grateful for that because even when I consulted clients when I was in corporate America before I did this full time, we would always say that, like, 4 to 7% turnover is good. Like you want. If you're not having any turnover at an organization, that's actually a really bad sign. So I'm fine if I'm not for everybody. And I try really hard not to just capitulate to the moment.

[Andy Beshear]

I think your point is really important for, for the broader Democratic Party too. You know, the media right now is trying to pit these two supposed wings against each other, where you either are 100% progressive or 100% moderate when none of us are 100% anything. Like, we've all had different experiences. We all have at least one issue we feel differently about, maybe because we've been through something or a family member has been through something. And my take is if we actually want to, to win, we've got to be a bigger tent party. But we also have to respond to each other with the empathy that we believe the other side lacks. To believe that as long as we're working 80% of the time on things that matter to 100% of the American people, that we can disagree about a few things. And the Democratic Party should have a little space for that type of democracy.

[Suzanne Lambert]

I completely agree. I mean, even us sitting down on this podcast, right? It's like, I'm sure you and I don't agree on 100% of, of things, right? But it's, it's not to say that by us are. By us being on a podcast episode together. I endorse everything you've ever believed and vice versa. And there can be some of that, like, weird chatter where, you know, I'll sit down with an elected official. And sometimes it'll just be about one specific topic. Let's just say climate. And someone will be like, oh, you're okay with them doing X, Y, Z? And I'm like, well, one. I didn't even know they did that, because I'm not. I'm not a political machine. Right? Like, that's not what I'm trying.

[Andy Beshear]

You're not on Twitter all day long.

[Suzanne Lambert]

And thank God, I actually just deleted the Threads app off my phone for my. That's my mental health protection for the week. I'm not on Twitter all day long. I don't want to be. And what I think is really important for people to remember is that the average person also isn't. The way that we communicate about things can be really frustrating. Can I give you an example?

[Andy Beshear]

Please.

[Suzanne Lambert]

The Michigan Senate race, you know, Mallory McMurra dropped out of the race, which means that if people had voted for her, they can do something called spoiling their ballot. Which is. And I'm just saying this if your listeners aren't aware, because this is my issue, you go to the. The city clerk's office, you literally tell them to spoil your ballot, which means you, like, market void, and then you get a new one.

[Maya Wiley]

Right.

[Suzanne Lambert]

Because you obviously can't vote for Mallory anymore. I see all of these posts. You can spoil your ballot. You can spoil your ballot. Not a single one of them said what that means. And I'm like, y' all the average person. I. I'm going to be honest, I had to look up what it meant. I didn't know. I had an idea, but I was like, what does spoiling your ballot mean? Right. I think we do that a lot. I think that we. We assume that everyone is as chronically online as a lot of us are. They are not. They're trying to pay their bills. They don't know these terms all the time, like cloture. Cloture. And, you know, just like random terms like this or. Or congressional reps will say, oh, I'm from so and so. I represent District four. But they want the fourth Congressional District of Virginia, but they won't say what town that is.

[Andy Beshear]

So I have the issue with. People will say, well, what about House Bill 10? And I'll say, what's House Bill 10? And they'll say, how could you not know that you're governor? And I'll say, I've been governor seven sessions. We've had seven House bill tens. Tell me what it is.

[Suzanne Lambert]

And I don't want my. That's not What? I want my governor. I don't want my governor sitting there with index cards at night saying, okay, I gotta memorize every house bill. Like, that's not. That's not the best use of your brain power. And I think what you just alluded to is also something we need to. We get this kind of intellectual superiority sometimes with, with things like that. And I'm like, y', all, I don't want to know all of the things that you're talking about. That's not my role in this. No one can know everything about everything. It's great that you spend so much time online. But again, if. If we actually want to reach people, which you say is the goal, it's definitely my goal. We do have to. And it's not even dumbing it down because I think we just talk at an elevation that is not accessible to a normal person.

[Andy Beshear]

One of the things that I really respect about your commentary is you talk to people and not at them. And we shouldn't lecture people because that's not a way to connect with them. But speaking of talking to people, tell us about Mean but True and let my audience know how they could follow it.

[Suzanne Lambert]

Oh, yes, my podcast, Mean but True. It. It drops every Tuesday. Mean but Tuesday, because branding is everything. It's really fun. It's. It's an entertainment first podcast, which is very deliberate. It's not, you know, hard hitting topics the entire time. And I. I have people on who I think are funny. So actually one of. I think, actually the only elected official I've ever had on is Governor Gavin Newsom, because I knew we could hang. And it's a really funny episode. It's a very funny episode. But, yeah, they can find it anywhere. They get their podcasts, I Heart Spotify, Apple, every single Tuesday. It's a really fun time. It's an easy listen.

[Andy Beshear]

Who have you ever. Who have you had on that was unexpectedly funny?

[Suzanne Lambert]

Well, it's hard to say because everyone I have on, I have on because I know they're entertaining. I think the funniest episode is probably, probably with Adam Rapon, who is an Olympic medalist, figure skater, Internet personality, everything. It is such, such a funny episode. If people were like, I want to get a sense of what this podcast is about. They should start with the Adam Rapad episode. It's very fun, but I have all kinds of people on. I have comedians on. I've had, you know, Jonathan Van Ness, Phoebe Robinson, Morgan Riddle, who's like a big influencer. Gavin Newsom. Right. A gubernatorial candidate, Mandela Barnes, he's the only candidate I've ever had on because he's a friend. Right. I have people on who are funny and entertaining and who I'm like actually friends with. I try not to do the who's the most famous person I can get on. Right. That's not the vibe.

[Andy Beshear]

So you've got an audience that I think spans multiple generations, but you certainly have an audience of younger Americans. Tell us how you think politicians, people in office, those that have a responsibility for creating that better world for the next generation, can actually connect better with them.

[Suzanne Lambert]

Yeah, I would say I'll start by saying what it is not. It is not. I don't, I don't think hopping onto every Internet trend just because it's viral. If that's not, if that's not your personality, don't do it. I don't do TikTok dances. You will never see me do a TikTok dance.

[Andy Beshear]

I've refused to do a lot of TikTok dances.

[Suzanne Lambert]

Good. Good for you. I think what you say no to is just as important as what you say yes to, truthfully. But I think really understanding their, their pain points and understanding their frustration and I think particularly for, for young men. Right. You know, this, I. Knowing what they're being fed, all this content, like you should be getting married young and cranking out kids young. Nothing wrong with that. By the way. If that's, if that, if that's, you know, your, your life choice, you should be buying a house this and that. They're getting all of this, you know, red pill content about that. All of those things are financially inconceivable for the average, you know, Gen Z or out of college, making the same salary I did, but my rent was a third when I graduated college over a decade ago. Right. So I think, understanding that in a way, I think a lot of young people, they feel lied to and tricked. But there is also, I think this sense some of them have wrongly, that like they did something wrong. They don't always, I think, connect the dots between. No, this is actually like a totally deliberate effort by the richest people in the world. And there is a possibility where life could look so much better if these things weren't in place. I think being able to validate their frustrations and anger and then connect it to who is actually responsible, it sounds. No duh, right. But I don't, I don't think we, we necessarily do that very well. I'll also say this, and this is maybe inside baseball, but when I am given, when I'm trying to learn about an elected official I'm going to interview. Typically, what their team will do is they'll send me kind of some bullet points. So these are Governor Bashir's opinions on xyz, you know, like things he has done, whatever. But very rarely is there what I consider the connective tissue, which is, you know, if you say it was an election year, you know, your opponent, what your opponent says about those things and why it's wrong and why I think that is so important, especially if you want to appeal to conservatives. Right. Sorry, this is kind of a long answer, but I promise I'm getting somewhere there. When I was in Catholic school, we had a course called Apologetics, which I'm just going to make it very simple. Here's what, here's bad things people say about the Catholic Church. Here's why that's wrong. Here's what they say. Here's why that's wrong. That is FOX News. Fox News strategy is people don't have to look for alternative perspectives because it's like they dogpile. They give such black and white certain information to people. And that's why people get hooked because they're anxious and they're scared and they can't afford anything and all these things. And Fox News is giving them this illusion of certainty. I don't think we do a very good job overdress overcoming those and thinking about objections that are thinking about what conservatives are told. Like, I think we have to do both. We have to talk about what we believe in, but we also have to talk about why what they've been told is a lie. Like, and I don't think we do that part.

[Andy Beshear]

It's the idea that CNN on any issue, even if it is straight, fact, factual, will have a Democratic and a Republican talking head. And they argue and you're not any further in knowing the truth. And on the Republican side with Fox News, it doesn't even matter if it's an opinion. It's going to be presented by one person or a panel of homogenous folks that all believe the same thing, that say it's fact.

[Suzanne Lambert]

And Governor, I learned that when I did my first debate I've ever done this year was on reproductive rights against someone who I'm not going to give any clout to. So I'm not going to say her name the way she would just lie. She said, I was like, I actually, I had a pretty funny line. I was like, you know, if I didn't have so much Botox in my Eyes, my eyebrows would be through the roof because. What did you just say? She said the. You know, when, when people are using birth control, the rates of pregnancy go up just like mind numbingly false information. And I'm like, oh, so they'll straight up lie. And I mean, it's one thing to hear it or see it. It was quite another to be in the room with someone and I'm like, are you for real? And I know you experience this all the time, but yeah, I mean, it's. We're on different playing fields. So knowing that they're being given all this bombastic information, we have to be ready to overcome it, like immediately.

[Andy Beshear]

All right, as we wrap up, if you had 30 seconds to talk to somebody who says they've checked out and they're not voting and to convince them that this election is really important, being a part of the process is important. Give us your pitch.

[Suzanne Lambert]

Yeah, I would say I completely understand why you feel that way. Things are expensive as hell. It never feels like there's any good news on the radio, on tv, ever. I know that. It can feel like even when you are voting the right, the right way or what you're. What you're told is the right way, you still don't see the needle moved. The fact of the matter is, if your vote was not so important, people wouldn't be trying so damn hard to take it away from you. People would not be spending millions of dollars on these shady mailers to try to make it look like they're from one side or another. So if you can't vote out of excitement for the political process or democracy, which I completely understand, Vote out of spite and pettiness, knowing that they don't want to. Because when you don't vote, they win. And they is the powers that be which are the richest people in the world who are making your life worse every single day.

[Andy Beshear]

Vote out of spite and pettiness. Suzanne Lambert, thanks for joining the Andy Beshear podcast.

[Suzanne Lambert]

Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoy you're more than just one thing. And your vehicle should have more too. More connectivity when you're the boss. Hey Google, when's my next meeting?

[Maya Wiley]

More space.

[Suzanne Lambert]

When you're the ringleader and we're good. And when you're the mom. Everyone in the all new Mazda CX5 more to move every side of you. Learn [e-mail] Google is a trademark of Google LLCs. Sequences shortened and simulated. You know that thing where you get an amazing pair of shoes at a really great price and want to tell everyone about it. Yeah. So do we here at Designer Shoe Warehouse.

[Jerina Weathers]

We'll give you something to brag about,

[Suzanne Lambert]

like the latest styles from brands you love or the trends everyone's obsessing over or shoes that make you feel like, well, you. So go ahead, show off a little. Find shoes that get you and prices

[Jerina Weathers]

that get your box budget.

[Suzanne Lambert]

Head to your DSW store or dsw.com today. DSW. Let us surprise you.

[Maya Wiley]

Bet.

[Andy Beshear]

Our next segment on the Andy Bashir podcast is my conversation with the Johns. It's the idea that this is a conversation among friends where we process that difficult news that hits us minute after minute. This week. We've got one of Those Johns, John McConnell, who is an insurance agent, owns an agency as well as other small businesses. And the return of Jerina Weathers, our commonwealth attorney in Jefferson county, our largest county. Welcome back, Jerina.

[Jerina Weathers]

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[Andy Beshear]

No, glad to have you.

[John McConnell]

Thank you for being here. You're classing the place up. She's probably not going to pitch any other small businesses she has.

[Andy Beshear]

Like we're, we will miss John Shameless plugs this week. Well, let's start where we've started about the past six weeks, and that's Iran. This is the war that the president started, seemingly without any real or achievable objectives, has at different times suggested that we have somehow won. Then we had a ceasefire that every week we've talked about, how can it be a ceasefire if we keep firing at each other? Straight of Hormutz is open, then closed and open, then closed and never really having all that many ships that go through. Well, this week we had a large escalation. Donald Trump is saying the ceasefire is over. There's claims that the strait is going to be fully closed. Now, John, as you think about this, are we just back to stage one? And if so, we are back in a war that Congress has not approved.

[John McConnell]

I almost feel like we need to open this every time. Just saying, is it deal or no deal? Just every week and depending on what the day is, do we have a deal? Do we don't have a deal? Do we have an mou? You know, where does it go from there? But when you look at the strait being opened and being closed, it's the people paying the price. I mean, up in Louisville, you see it of what's happening.

[Jerina Weathers]

Yeah, we do. We really do. And that's the bigger part of it. Sometimes we have to as elected officials, elected leaders, we have to get back to the Middle that why are we in these positions in the first place? And it's not about us. It's not about power. It's not about any of that. It's about who we serve. And what's happening is that all across the board. I mean, you cannot argue about what's happening with gas prices and with things that are really, really hurting our people, especially even in Jefferson county, all over. But I think about gas prices, the biggest part is that we see it because there's been some, you know, some changes with bus routes and tarp and things like that. Folk have to get to court. There are other things that they have to. And then there are mandated by court or by, you know, agreements. They have to go to different places even not just court, just to get mental health treatment and things like that. And people can't walk to, I mean, to the courtroom. People can't walk to certain places. That's why you have those things. And so all of that goes back to why we were elected in the first place. What are we here for? And we're here for the people. And sometimes you actually have to physically just stop and see what's happening around us.

[Andy Beshear]

That kind of reminds me of that idea. When you find yourself at the bottom of a hole, stop digging. This administration seems to double down, whether it's tariffs or this and keep digging. I also am thinking about your answer, Jerina, in that we have to get results. Our job as elected officials is to get results. And so when you have something complicated like different cases that you all have, you send somebody experienced to manage them. Yet the people negotiating with a very complicated adversary are a developer and the President's son in law who have no real experience in this area. And when they want to add somebody else even less experienced, they send J.D. vance.

[John McConnell]

Yeah, and I think we see the results playing out because of that. And you talk about being elected to do a job. When we start to look at that MOU they had that was going to go for 60 days and Andy, you'll have to help me with this. But that was designed to say that we did not have to go to Congress for the War Powers Act. What does that look like that they're avoiding that?

[Andy Beshear]

Oh, they are selling pretense after pretense, fake reason after fake reason not to go to Congress. Remember, Donald Trump started this war right after the State of the Union. He had a chance to talk to the American people and was in the room with all of Congress and didn't do it, only talked about it for a Minute at most. And then took us to war and census, tried to say, oh, no, the war is over. Now this is just something dealing with the Strait. And then it's not a war because there's a ceasefire. Except there never has been. But now claiming that the ceasefire is over. Yes, should have to go to Congress. That clock should already be here. Congress has to do its job if there's going to be an enforcement of that. And Congress hadn't been doing its job his entire presidency.

[John McConnell]

And I saw something else pop up today that Trump is now saying that he wants to do a 20% toll on cargo through the strait. Well, who's going to pay that?

[Andy Beshear]

So if. Who's it going to fall if Iran exerts a toll? And now the United States is going to. Well, gas is just going to be that much more expensive. And guess who's going to pay for it? US farmers. I think a third of all the world's fertilizer comes through the Strait of Hormuz. And if tariffs didn't already hurt them enough, if the elimination of US Aid, which was a number of their customers, if cutting the farm to cafeteria program, which the Trump administration did, wasn't enough, could you imagine that's just an extra tax. But listen, this is a president who claimed he doesn't like taxes, who created tariffs that taxed the American people, and now this on the Strait of Hormuz. Let's talk about something else that's making life harder on Americans and that's a lack of housing, affordable housing all the way up, significant lack of supply that is resulting in prices being too high. And with everything else, with inflation, interest rates being too high as well. So Congress did something that we haven't seen them do in a while. They passed a bill on a bipartisan basis. Praise the Lord. It is possible. It might not do a ton, but at least it made a statement about the importance of housing. And so the Republicans were up, doing a victory lap. I think it was an Indiana congressman was talking about how President Trump was about to sign it and was so supportive. And the president came out and said he wouldn't do it.

[John McConnell]

Yeah, not going to have a piece of it. And when you look at the housing prices in Louisville, I mean, they, they've got to be increasing.

[Jerina Weathers]

And if nothing else, people are able to see what the end product is, especially in Louisville. So what's happening with. And it's been a big thing, even with our local legislature, affordable housing is a real, it's a real issue. And what happens is that that is the basis of whether or not the crime. And I don't, a lot of times we don't put those two together. People don't have anywhere to live, people don't have anywhere to eat. They don't have the education that they need.

[Andy Beshear]

No stability, none at all.

[Jerina Weathers]

And what happens is our families implode. You cannot miss what's going on in Louisville as far as housing. And it is a big, big issue that we can't ignore. And then of course I'm excited about this, but to my understanding that, you know, Congress can't determine what the mortgage rates are. Right. So you know, we have, we're getting there, but people still have to be able to afford, even though that there's some things opening up. People have to be able to afford to get a home.

[Andy Beshear]

I think about affordable housing and it's really three things. Number one, it's investment, political will. Number two, it's regulation and we probably have too much, which means that it moves too slowly. And three, it's NIMBYism, the idea that people will say, yes, we need more housing, but not near me. Those are the three things that we've got to push through. And my belief is we've got to do it now. I mean, how many generations can, can live with. With the average age of first time homeownership now reaching 40 years old, I think I was 28, 29.

[John McConnell]

Well, and you look at a $300,000 house that may be three bedrooms, two, two bathrooms, come 10 or 20% down, it's just going to be unattainable for a long time. And we've got good news on housing in Kentucky, don't we?

[Andy Beshear]

Well, we do. We've done more than most and we're handling it better than most. We've got significant new rental units as well as homes in western Kentucky. We were able to take that disaster money after the tornadoes, push it through our affordable housing trust fund and other really first time steps or initiatives that have been taken. And we were able to have the largest announcement there we've ever had. Those units are now coming online. It'll be really interesting to watch what that does and how much it helps the entire market. Eastern Kentucky, the same thing we're building on top of former coal mines. We're building energy efficient houses that are affordable, that have solar panels on them where the average utility bill will be $50 a month. So I hear some people say addressing housing is impossible. But if you can be a Democratic governor in Kentucky building affordable home with Solar panels on top of former coal mines. Nothing's impossible, but we are going to have to make that investment. Jerina, I think another thing that housing and so much, including having enough to eat, attached to, is mental health, especially for our youth.

[Jerina Weathers]

Yes, that is a. And I will share with you this because I will say that it's been a journey. I mean, and we work with the legislatures, our state legislatures. They've done some great things for us, especially with prosecutors and what we needed to be able to expand to help communities. But it is a. Everyone knows what's going on with our youth. And here in Kentucky, in the Commonwealth, we can prosecute children at 14 years old. Of course, some caveats to that. That means that they've done something pretty bad. I mean, it's an ARB felony. And in the commission of that, there is a firearm involved. But the bigger issue is that what we were talking about the other day, if you were to. We will prosecute cases. That is what we're there for. It is our first priority of making sure that our community is safe. But the other part of this is mental health treatment. So we are talking about, especially with our youth, anyone, but especially with our youth. And you confine them and then you expect after 5, 10, 15 years for them to be better or different when they come out. And that is not the case if you don't have the treatment that is needed. There is something gone awry. If we, we are having children committing these crimes. And then of course, we have all the, even the shootings this weekend. And also with mental health court that we have, but it looks like that could be a concern, especially in Jefferson County. We have to have that. I mean, we have to have some things in place to actually help people if we really are serious about not making things better. I don't know if I'm just saying that that is what I'm there for in our office. We are wanting to make things better. We can prosecute cases. We can, people can go, you know, the jurors that will determine whether or not people will go to prison. But there is something beyond that now. We're talking about generational issues that we can no longer say. I say we because they said, well, you're. You're the problem prosecutor. It doesn't have anything to do with that. I'm a citizen of the Commonwealth and I live in Jefferson county, And there are 783,000 of us. And we've got to go deeper. I mean, that's. I mean, that's what they what people have elected us for. So mental health treatment is a real issue.

[Andy Beshear]

I worry that federal policy is only making this harder, especially on youth. And we saw 11,000 plus kids kicked off their SNAP benefits under President Trump's agenda. That's 11,000 kids that don't have enough to eat. You think about health care coverage. We found when we expanded Medicaid that we only got the last kids signed up for health care coverage when we got their parents signed up for health care coverage. So all these individuals that are losing Medicaid or other coverage means those kids are seeing the doctor less and are much less likely to see a mental health professional if they're not having their physical health addressed, it's very unlikely they'll have their mental health addressed.

[Jerina Weathers]

That's right. And mental health means to navigate and to understand where you as a person, where you go from here. And there are wonderful experts that can help us do that. And we cannot do it. We can't do it alone, and we definitely can't do it in silos.

[Andy Beshear]

Well, John, since our last episode, a race that we covered, two individuals that we had on running for governor of Colorado, the results are in. And Phil Weiser won 66.9% to Michael Bennett's 43.1%.

[John McConnell]

And you talk about two great guys running for governor. That state was going to be in terrific shape either way. But I look back to these interviews and of course, Phil's been with us more than once. So the preparation, does it still stand that being an AG before governor is a good thing? Does it help people? I don't know.

[Andy Beshear]

I think being an attorney general is pretty good practice, pretty good preparation for being governor. I'm probably a little biased. I keep saying, among the Democratic governors, if we had a softball game between the AGs and the former members of Congress, the winner would be whoever got Wes Moore, him having been neither. But I think there were a couple things. If I analyze that race first, there is definitely a push back and against Washington, D.C. from the American people. I think Senator Bennet, through no fault of his own, got caught up in D.C. being a mess and being ineffective. But I also think when you run for attorney general and Jerina, you served in my attorney general's office. You got to build your own network. When you run for Senate, money will pour in from different places. You got to scrap it out running for ag, and that means you build out real relationships with folks that you keep up with that support you. And you know them. They're a part of your life. And when you're running a statewide race, that's just really critical.

[Jerina Weathers]

And it's also, we had a pretty darn good AG when I was there. But we there, there is a bird's eye, bird's eye view that you see in the attorney general's office along with being right there with the people. I know that's not what we're talking about, but I'm telling you, I have a great working relationship with this current ag and it's because he understands that there's a lot of layers to this when it comes to the commonwealth. And I think that's a big part of this with this current race is that the other part of that is I remember because it was actually my daughter talking about Colorado and she specifically talked about two things, housing and environmental issues. Until she said that, I said, well, I'm sure like you said, both candidates are good, are great, but you now have a very, I think you've got a much more educated potential voter. And they are seeing some very specific things that they're looking for. At least my 29 year old did. And she said these things are important to her and less important about fighting against the opponent.

[John McConnell]

And I'll put one thing out there, too, because all the candidates we've had on primaries after their primary, Phil said something and kind of want your opinion, Andy. He said standing up for the Constitution seems to be a common theme. Do you see that across the whole country?

[Andy Beshear]

Well, what's interesting in that is that Congress is not doing its job under the Constitution. And those are the Republican members of Congress that are willing to let Donald Trump do anything and not stand up for themselves as a separate branch of government. But I think there's a little bit of a pox on all your houses. And I think Senator Bennet probably paid a price for that, even though it's not his fault. So you could see Phil Weiser fighting back in filing lawsuits and winning lawsuits. And you could see Senator Bennett fighting back in the Senate but simply not having the numbers. And so it could be that Phil Weiser was in the more effective position, position to get results, to pick up some wins. All right. As we close out, if we don't address the elephant in the room or in the hospital, I think our listeners would question us. And that's Mitch McConnell and his health. Your thoughts?

[John McConnell]

Well, obviously, as a McConnell, you know, we want to see everyone recover and be okay. And when you look at the facts that, that so many people have been asking what's happening for so long and just the intentionalness of not responding when, if you picked up the phone, you could. I mean, I think there was a lot of opportunity there for that to happen.

[Andy Beshear]

Jerina, instead of asking about Mitch McConnell for a second, if you had a health scare and it was going to take you out of commission for a month, would you feel a responsibility to talk about it, at least in general terms?

[Jerina Weathers]

I absolutely do. And, you know, the big, the bigger part of this is that what I have learned being an elected official is that really your private life is really not your own. If you are serving.

[Andy Beshear]

That's the deal.

[Jerina Weathers]

So many people, it is just. That is part of it. I do wish him the best, him and his family. But I guarantee you that Jefferson county will hold me accountable. And I have to have a level of transparency or I won't be voted back in.

[Andy Beshear]

I mean, you remember you were in the administration when we started in the governor's office and in the AG's office. But when Covid hit, if I sneezed on camera, I was going to have to get a full workup by a doctor and release it to the public. That's just. That's part of the deal that we make with. And so what we have seen is after I and a number of other people tried to say in the right way, we understand your desire for privacy, but you're a U.S. senator that's been in the hospital for a month. The people need an update. We got a picture, we got a lengthy statement, and that's something. But I think going forward, what we're going to need to see are what the people are going to expect are some interviews, are some videos, basically enough to say that he has the capacity to continue to serve.

[John McConnell]

And the easiest way to stop that conspiracy theory conversation is just to actually talk to someone on the record or a reporter and answer a couple of questions and just get it over with and done. It doesn't seem like that's happening.

[Andy Beshear]

And if you just let it continue, it gets more and more and more difficult. And we know that if not responded to, sometimes the Internet and everyone on it pushing these conspiracy theories, it starts almost seeming like fact.

[John McConnell]

Yes.

[Jerina Weathers]

And honesty is. It's amazing. We have quite a few town halls and things like that, and it's amazing when people will see, say, I still don't agree with what you said, but I appreciate you sharing. Now. I know what that process is, the thought process, why your office is doing what you're doing. And it makes a big difference.

[Andy Beshear]

Honesty and transparency is what people expect out of Mitch McConnell. And it's exactly what you get on the Andy Beshear Podcast. Now on the Andy Beshear Podcast, we are blessed to be joined by Maya Wiley. Maya is a nationally respected civil rights attorney and activist and president and CEO of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights, the nation's oldest and largest civil rights coalition. She previously served as the first black woman counsel to the mayor of New York City, chaired the New York City Civilian Complaint Review Board, and was a 2021 candidate for New York City mayor. Wiley has also worked at the ACLU and the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. She served as a legal analyst for NBC News and msnbc, and co founded the center for Social Inclusion. Maya, welcome to the Andy Beshear Podcast.

[Maya Wiley]

Well, it's wonderful to be with you, Governor. Thanks for having me.

[Andy Beshear]

Well, you're with us at an incredibly important time. In a couple of fights you are right in the middle of. I wanted to start with the confirmation or upcoming confirmation hearings of Todd Blanche, who is Donald Trump's nominee for Attorney general. Tell us why you think his nomination is so dangerous.

[Maya Wiley]

Well, it's pretty simple, sadly. And I once also served as an attorney in a satellite office of the Department of Justice. It's that the Department of Justice is supposed to be the nation's top lawyer. That means the top lawyer for we, the people, the person who is responsible. Sure, we're safe, we're protected, whether it's from consumer fraud, white collar crime, or literally hate crimes, you name it. It also has a civil rights division which is supposed to be a shield for us to protect our civil rights, like voting rights, like rights against being discriminated against. And it protects all of us. But what Todd Blanche has done, and candidly and sadly, so many other high level appointees from this administration is to decide that they're going to be Donald Trump' personal attorney. That is not the way the Department of Justice is supposed to run, but it's very practical. And how unsafe it makes the rest of us and how it's become a persecution machine rather than a prosecution machine and simply said, we cannot have a United States Attorney General that is an attorney general for just Trump.

[Andy Beshear]

I remember when I became Kentucky's attorney general, being in the opposite party of the governor who just been sworn into office. He looked at me and he said, you're my lawyer now. If you do what I ask, we'll be fine. And I looked at him and I said, then I am not your type of attorney general because I represent the people.

[Maya Wiley]

Exactly.

[Andy Beshear]

I've seen that over 1200 DOJ alumni are urging senators to. To reject him. I think that's a first of its kind type of rejection and statement of people who typically haven't been political at all. How strong of a statement do you think that is?

[Maya Wiley]

Look, I think it's an unprecedented statement. It's a powerful statement. It's a warning bell for everyone in this country, no matter your political party, your ideology, who you supported, because this is a group of people. I'm actually one of the people who signed this, that letter. And when I worked at the Department of Justice and I worked in the New York City satellite office, you know, we had people on all sides of the political aisle working as attorneys there. And the point was we had one job and one job only. Follow the evidence and do what's right. And you weren't supposed to pay attention to power. You were supposed to pay attention to the law and the job. So when you see 1200 lawyers, former lawyers, this isn't even the first. We've had former lawyers, over 200 from the civil Rights division of the Department of Justice who, frankly, last December sent a letter demonstrating and identifying the cases that this Department of Justice was refusing. Cases like where literally a homeowners association was using literally, white supremacy group to try to chase black people out of the community. A case where they dropped, that was about sexual violence and sexual harassment of minors in a privately funded detention facility funded by the federal government, that they dropped that, that they have actually refused to protect people who are supposed to be protected. But the persecution has become the point, the utilization of prosecution to go after anybody Donald Trump doesn't like or organization or group that is doing work that, frankly, they're lawfully allowed to do if they don't like the positions, if they don't like the work. And that's why you're hearing and seeing this warning bell. We even got another one today from a federal judge that literally said that Todd Blanch's settlement agreement with Donald Trump and his family, where he was both giving them a kind of a blanket immunity against any future investigation for anything related to their taxes, that's personal, that's not presidential, while he also created a slush fund to pay off, frankly, people they wanted to reward for supporting Donald Trump. Like, these are things that a judge literally said they were referring for oversight through the bar association because it was such a gross violation of the public trust, the oath of office, and the very role that these, that this historic institution is supposed to play. So it's significant, and we should take note.

[Andy Beshear]

One of those groups targeted by this administration is the Southern Poverty Law Center, a group that in Kentucky was suing the Klan. For instance, the Ku Klux Klan had had a compound and the center had found different ways to ultimately protect citizens around it and try to push back against hate. Talk about how wrong this indictment is and what type of message it sends that this administration would do it.

[Maya Wiley]

So it was very clear to us at the leadership conference. And let me just say the Southern Poverty Law center is a member organization of ours. So we know and understand the work, but we also knew and understood the. That this administration had already been threatening law firms, foundations, people who support our work and the work of the civil rights community, and that they were doing that in order to basically make it harder for us to do our work. So when we saw the attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center, I mean, sadly, we were not surprised. But what was shocking about it is this was a criminal investigation and then an indictment for the Southern Poverty Law center, providing information to law enforcement, directly to law enforcement from informants to identify violent hate crimes before they happened, you know, before the Unite the Right rally, that awful rally that resulted in the murder of Heather Heyer in Charlottesville, that anti Semitic. I can't even, I mean, I don't even like to recall the kinds of chants that we heard in that rally. But they had given a 45 page situation memo to the feds trying to say, look, there are going to be weapons there, it's going to be dangerous. People need to be protected. There are other instances in which they actually prevented hate crimes by sharing information with law enforcement, including the federal government, the FBI. And yet then you see this indictment that claims that they are violating the law by having this informants program by doing what they could to, to protect the program lawfully, by the way, where banks even knew what they were doing and how they were doing it. And then they try to claim that it's a crime. And they even. We even had Todd Blanche say publicly, well, we didn't know what they were doing. They never told us, even though there was a whole record of where and how. And it was a public record. Some of this was news stories that in fact they had had a relationship with the Federal Bureau of Investigation. In fact, it was Cash Patel, this administration's FBI head, who severed the relationship. So they were literally saying things in public. They had to retract. The evidence did not support the claims. And in fact, it really seemed to be a way, in my view, of whitewashing White supremacy, of trying to flip the script and suggest the groups that are going after hate crimes were the ones who. Who were trying to create the hate crimes. It was beyond absurd. And it was an example of what is the point here? Why are we seeing this prosecution? This prosecution we're seeing when we have issues of sex trafficking, when we have issues of hate crimes that the federal government is supposed to be pursuing, when we haven't. We literally watched Todd Blanche work on protect, creating the slush fund to fund some of the very groups that have been called hate groups by SPLC for January 6th violence. So all I can say is the point was to try to stop legitimate civil rights work, including some of the voting rights education work, protecting kids who have disabilities in schools. They provide legal services across the South. It was astounding. But it was also not surprising because sadly, this appears to be part of the playbook, and it is to stop any opposition to anything that the Trump administration doesn't like.

[Andy Beshear]

Another part of that playbook to stop opposition appears to be how the Trump administration is pushing out new rules on nonprofits. Talk a little bit about what they're trying to do and how we push back.

[Maya Wiley]

Well, look, it's very clear that they're trying everything from trying to create new ways to take nonprofits not for profit status, to try to claim that not for profits doing legitimate work can be labeled domestic terrorists and everything in its power to make it harder for not for profits to exist and to challenge their ability to do the things they can lawfully do. And we are talking about basic civil rights, things that support everyone and every community, things that don't ask who you vote for or how you pray or who you pray to or what you believe. I mean, work that's just literally about can you get an education? Can you know what your voting rights are and show up and have your vote count all of the things we know everyone cares about, including whether you can see a doctor when you're sick. So I say that because what is very clear that we can do about it is for everyone to say, just stop it. Solve our problems, pull us together, don't try to divide us, and try to prevent groups from doing what the Constitution allows, what our civil rights protect. And in fact, you should be doing what administration after administration has done, which is try to work with us, not try to undermine us, recognizing that important services are delivered to communities as a result of what not for profits do. So all we're saying is stand with services and advocacy for communities, rights and needs, rather than trying to weaponize government against them. And every single person has the ability to raise their voice and say just that because at the end of the day, it's going to. It's going to endanger all organizations because you don't want a situation where one political party or another can use the power of government to try to stop opposition, to try to quell people from petitioning government.

[Andy Beshear]

For our listeners that are hearing this clear and important message, tell them how you further follow you in the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights and how they can get involved with your organization.

[Maya Wiley]

Well, thank you for that. And look, you can go to civilrights.org that is our website. Civil rights.org sign up, you'll get more information. But also you can follow me at mayaforrights. And that's Instagram, that's bluesky, and that's Twitter. But you can also follow the Leadership Conference on Civil and human rights through civilrights.org is also our handle on social media. And the most important things is get involved and everything you do matters. Don't let anyone pretend like it doesn't. It does.

[Andy Beshear]

Maya, thanks for everything you're doing. And thanks for joining the Andy Beshear Podcast.

[Maya Wiley]

Thanks for having me, folks.

[Andy Beshear]

That's our show. Two totally different guests, two totally different toolkits. Suzanne fighting with humor and a refusal to play nice. Maya fighting with the law and a lifetime in the trenches of civil rights work. And somehow it all pointed at out the same thing. The system only holds if people keep showing up to defend it. To Suzanne, thank you for reminding us that being effective doesn't mean being polite and that there's real power in just saying the true thing out loud. Tamiya, thank you for laying out exactly what's at stake in Blanche's confirmation, the SPLC case and everything nonprofits are up against right now. That's the kind of clarity people need to actually do do something with their concern instead of just feeling it. If today's conversation got you fired up, don't let it fade away by tomorrow. Share this episode with someone. Call your senator about the Blanche hearings this week. And make sure you check us out on YouTube. Give us a subscribe at Andy Beshear podcast. We'll see you next week.

[Suzanne Lambert]

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[Maya Wiley]

Com.

[Suzanne Lambert]

Google is a trademark of Google llc. Sequences shortened and simulated.