Animal Spirits Podcast: Talk You Book – How to Fix the Plumbing of the Financial System

Date: January 26, 2026
Host: Michael Batnick and Ben Carlson (The Compound)
Guest: Ryan Leavelle, Director of Capital Markets at Chainlink Labs

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the “plumbing” of the financial markets—the often-invisible infrastructure underpinning the movement of money and assets. The hosts interview Ryan Leavelle, who transitioned from Vanguard to Chainlink Labs, to explore how blockchain technology (and specifically Chainlink’s solutions) may modernize and revolutionize financial infrastructure. The conversation delves into the inefficiencies of current systems, the promise and challenges of tokenization, regulatory hurdles, and the transformation such advances may bring to both institutions and end investors.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Ryan Leavelle’s Path from Vanguard to Crypto

[02:24] – [05:05]

• Ryan shares his background, moving from institutional custom fund management at Vanguard to Chainlink.
• He explains that working on “the plumbing”—settlement, clearing, and custody—gave him insights into legacy inefficiencies.
• The push into crypto/blockchain was driven by curiosity about how markets work beneath the surface.
• Noteworthy quote:

  "If you've just interacted with a brokerage platform, there's like this smooth surface... but there's obviously this iceberg under the ocean, which is the plumbing."
  — Ryan Leavelle [03:18]

2. What’s Right and Wrong with Current Financial System Plumbing

[05:05] – [06:40]

• U.S. markets are vast and liquid, but rest on aging systems: a "Windows upgrade" is long overdue.
• Since the ’70s “paper crisis,” systems were simply digitized, not fundamentally reengineered.
• The system is still dominated by end-of-day, batch-based processes (e.g., settlement delays).

3. ACH, Wires, and Why Transactions Are Still So Slow

[06:40] – [08:47]

• Michael shares a personal account of money transfers taking 8–9 days (an experience many retail investors can relate to).
• Ryan explains: The ACH system lacks real-time confirmation, relying on outdated file transfers and lag time.
• Memorable moment:

  “The ACH system... is simply just old plumbing, end of day batch-based cycles, no instant settlement. But more importantly, there's no confirmation.”
  — Ryan Leavelle [07:28]

4. Why Chainlink?

[08:47] – [10:12]

• Ryan notes the proliferation of blockchains; Chainlink sits as a blockchain-agnostic orchestration layer.
• “Instead of betting on which chain will win... you’re betting on the whole ecosystem.”
• Chainlink enables interoperability between fragmented blockchains, supporting the entire industry's development.

5. Barriers to Blockchain-Based Modernization

[10:12] – [11:44]

• Regulatory clarity has been a huge obstacle; without it, building large-scale applications was risky.
• Only recently have key rules been clarified, opening the door for more institutional involvement.
• The challenge is not just technical, but also regulatory and institutional inertia.

6. Incentives for Banks: Compete or Lose

[11:44] – [14:00]

• Host asks: Why would big banks change if they make money from the status quo?
• Ryan uses the mobile revolution as an analogy: banks that built for mobile from scratch (fintechs) won over those just “skinning” old systems.
• With generational wealth transfer looming and younger investors favoring innovative interfaces, incumbents risk obsolescence if they don’t adapt.
• Notable quote:

  “The banks that won weren't those with like the best app skins. They were the ones who rearchitected around mobile-first experiences.”
  — Ryan Leavelle [12:23]

7. Tokenized Securities and NYSE’s Entry

[14:53] – [18:18]

• NYSE and others are building platforms for tokenized asset trading.
• 24/7 trading is a nice improvement, but real innovation lies in “programmability and composability.”
• Ryan expands on how on-chain assets become like software objects, enabling dynamic use: e.g., a tokenized T-bill as collateral, earning yield, being fractionalized.
• Analogy: Music pre-Spotify (albums as static bundles) vs. post-Spotify (tracks as flexible, combinable elements).
• Notable quote:

  “On chain assets are different because they're software objects that interact with other software objects.”
  — Ryan Leavelle [15:35]

8. What Chainlink Actually Does

[18:18] – [19:29]

• Chainlink acts as the “global standard” for getting data in and out of blockchains and connecting them.
• Currently, over $27 trillion in transactions processed; widely integrated with players like Swift, DTCC, JP Morgan, UBS.
• Chainlink is the “connective tissue” enabling interoperability and secure, compliant transactions.

9. Impact on the End Investor: Custody, Composability, and UX

[19:10] – [21:57]

• Investors will have more optionality: self-custody vs. custodial services.
• Products from DeFi (permissionless) and TradFi (compliant) worlds can merge.
• The vision: Blockchain’s complexity gets abstracted away, so the UX (Robinhood, etc.) remains simple.
• Customization: Investors could diversify into yield strategies not possible under current rails.
• Notable quote:

  “We're not going to disrupt [the Robinhood UX]... What you do have now though is okay, I have options on a yield strategy.”
  — Ryan Leavelle [21:38]

10. How Soon Is This Future?

[24:01] – [26:08]

• Realistic timeline: Next 12–18 months for foundational infrastructure (equities on-chain, new custody solutions).
• Widespread, scaled adoption (“third and fourth inning”) likely 3–4 years out.
• Major custodians and banks are only now getting regulatory clarity to offer crypto/blockchain-based services.

11. Chainlink’s Customers and Modular Innovation

[26:08] – [27:48]

• Chainlink works both with legacy financial institutions and with blockchains directly.
• Rather than replacing existing systems, they add new features, helping both sides communicate and interoperate.
• Emphasizes evolutionary, not revolutionary, changes.

12. Chainlink’s Future-Proof Positioning

[28:05] – [30:14]

• Chainlink remains blockchain-agnostic, supporting any (and multiple) blockchains simultaneously.
• As in current payments, where different rails serve different needs, the blockchain world will have specialized chains.
• Chainlink is a single integration point, greatly reducing risk for adopters since its usefulness isn’t tied to one chain winning.
• Notable quote:

  “People love working with us because we're truly across all the different chains and all the different use cases as a single integration point.”
  — Ryan Leavelle [30:02]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Wall Street’s Innovation Lag

  "We're due for like a Windows upgrade."
  — Michael Batnick [01:36]

• On ACH Frustration

  “It's crazy, right? Because it goes back to plumbing... there's no confirmation, which is simply just old plumbing, end of day batch based cycles, no instant settlement.”
  — Ryan Leavelle [07:04]

• On Banks’ Resistance & Fintech Disruption

  “If you aren't thinking about how to service the wallet in the same way that you may have not been thinking about servicing the iPhone, there are competitors out there...”
  — Ryan Leavelle [12:10]

• On Programmability

  “A tokenized treasury bill could simultaneously serve as collateral for a loan, earn yield, be fractionalized all through smart contracts that execute automatically.”
  — Ryan Leavelle [15:45]

• On Mass Adoption Timeline

  "I think what you're going to see in the next 12 to 18 months is foundational infrastructure... The third and fourth inning, which is probably three or four years away, [is] when we get to see sort of this adoption at scale."
  — Ryan Leavelle [24:23]

Timestamps of Key Segments

• [02:24] – Ryan Leavelle’s background and move from Vanguard to Chainlink
• [05:05] – Discussion of legacy financial system strengths and weaknesses
• [06:40] – Explaining why ACH and money movement are slow
• [08:47] – Why Ryan chose Chainlink and its role as blockchain orchestrator
• [10:12] – Bottlenecks: regulation, inertia, and risk aversion
• [11:44] – Why banks will have to adapt or lose out
• [14:53] – NYSE moving into tokenized assets, what that means
• [18:18] – What Chainlink does in practice
• [19:29] – Impact on investors, UX, custody choices
• [24:01] – Timeline for foundational and mass adoption
• [26:08] – Who Chainlink’s clients are; evolutionary approach
• [28:05] – Why Chainlink’s agnostic model is future-proof

Summary Takeaway

“The plumbing is the use case.” That’s the thesis of this episode: blockchain and specifically platforms like Chainlink are poised not just to create new assets but to overhaul the rails of the global financial system—potentially making transactions cheaper, faster, programmable, and more secure. The conversation is optimistic yet pragmatic about the pace of change, emphasizing regulatory and incumbent friction, but spots clear signs that profound transformation is coming, step by step, over the next five years.

For more: Visit Chainlink’s website or follow them on social media.