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- [00:00]
Michael Batnick
Today's Animal Spirits is brought to you by our friends at Y Charts. This is our 400th episode. Not including all the talk your books that we've done, this is the 400th episode. Ben, you and I started the podcast. It was November 2017 and I did a podcast with, with Josh and Barry. Patrick O'Shaughnessy hosted us in our office. And afterward Patrick said, why don't you and Ben have a podcast? And we had, I think we had like maybe spoken about it, but I was pretty self conscious at the time about launching a podcast. Like I wasn't comfortable talking to a microphone. I'd never done it before. And it felt like we were late to the game, which is hilarious. It felt like there was a million podcasts in the world, didn't need another. And then a week before we officially launched, the New Yorker had a cartoon saying, I'm thinking of stopping a podcast. And I was like, oh no, we're such bozos. Like, who, who wants to listen to us? And I'm, we're taking a little bit of a trip back down memory lane because it's 400. It's a big round number. And our sponsor for today, Y Charts, has been with us maybe not since the beginning beginning, but they were definitely our, the first company partner, first partner to, to stand up and say, we want to be a part of what you guys are building. So it's been an incredible partnership for us. So we just want to thank the entire team at Wide Charts and as we've said over and over again, we really are power users. I have it on all the time, open on my screen all the time.
- [01:29]
Ben Carlson
For everything, every day. I would love to see the numbers of how many Charts I've created over the years and searching for stuff. And it's really helpful for us, not only in the podcast, but with all the research we're doing on the wealth management side of things and sharing stuff on social media and yes, it's just like it's totally part of our, our whole process now, every single day.
- [01:52]
Michael Batnick
So if you have not taken the plunge yet and you've been thinking about and you're new to Y Charts, give them a call. Tell Mantle Spirit sent you you'll get 20% off your initial subscription. Today's show is brought to you by Coinshares, known for their flagship Chinese technology etf Kweb. Ben, I don't know if you know this, but Chinese stocks have been on a bit of a tear over the past one year. Kweb is up 45% total return. The S&P is up 23% over the same time year to date these things are on fire. Kwebs up 22% the S&P is up 4 zooming further out. Obviously it's it's a different picture. Chinese stocks have been in the do jumps for a while but but they're on a tear and I don't see too many people talking about them.
- [02:41]
Ben Carlson
I heard a good case to be made that after the Deep SEQ stuff came out saying, well maybe you need to own Chinese stocks as a kind of an AI hedge to spread your net a little wider here, catching a little wider in case who knows where the winner ends up being from. Maybe that's part of this right Matter.
- [02:56]
Michael Batnick
Of fact, the yes. So that was definitely the catalyst, the spark of the fuse. Crane Shares is hosting a webinar on Thursday, February 20 at 11am Eastern on the impact of Deep Seek on KWIB and the whole Chinese Internet space. You can find the registration@craneshares.com Disclosures and performance related to these funds are available@craneshares.Com.
- [03:24]
Unknown
Welcome to Animal Spirits, a show about markets, life and investing. Join Michael Batnick and Ben Carlson as they talk about what they're reading, writing and watching. All opinions expressed by Michael and Ben are solely their own opinion and do not reflect the opinion of Ritholtz Wealth Management. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon for any investment decisions. Clients of Ritholtz Wealth Management may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this podcast.
- [03:54]
Ben Carlson
Welcome to Animal Spirits with Michael and Ben. Michael, not to start off a little sappy here, but I'm a big believer in things happening for a reason in life. And I think over the years you've been probably more open book than me in some ways, like you've really let it out.
- [04:13]
Michael Batnick
I'm from New York, you're from the.
- [04:16]
Ben Carlson
Midwest, I'm the Midwest. We bottle things up. But I do think that your sharing of your mother's story over the years has been helpful to so many people. We've gotten many, many emails from people over the years saying, Michael, your story helped me process or think through my sense of loss and grief. And your whole dealing with that, I think has been so big for me this past year dealing with my brother who a year or so ago contracted pancreatic cancer was diagnosed and it was the prognosis not being good and just your open and honesty about it has like, you know, I think there's a reason that you came into my life. How's that? Oh, is that fair?
- [05:01]
Michael Batnick
Anyway, this is about you, not me. But I am curious, was there anything particular that I said over the years or recently that made you feel a certain way?
- [05:13]
Ben Carlson
Well, I just. I've never gone through something like this, and it's one of those things where you don't really know. It's the kind of thing, you know, it happens to a lot of people. I keep saying it's like a very personal emotion, but I think just your willingness to talk about it and talk about, like, what it did to you and what it. The, like, a lasting impact and talking about how, like, you know, Robin. You said Robin had an experience where her father passed away at a young age. And hearing all that stuff and just hearing the different stages you went through and the feelings and how it changed your perspective on life. All of that stuff, I think has been helpful for me, kind of trying to process this with my brother. So. Yeah, so I just think the. It's one of those things where you don't really know what to do or what to say. Like, as someone from the outside looking in, I've never been one to have, like, the words to say to someone who's going through something like that. But now going through it myself, it's kind of funny. It doesn't matter what you say. It doesn't matter. It's just like being there for people and telling them, like, I'm here. So, yeah, so my brother passed away last week. So it's been about a week. So I've been kind of a haze. And I wrote a long blog post about it, actually. When he got diagnosed, I started writing it. So I've been writing this for probably almost a year. But, like, when he actually passed away, then I probably for three straight days, I worked on this. I really wanted to be, like, perfect as, like, a tribute to him. And I have a lot of stuff I want to talk about. But the biggest takeaway for me is that I think it's very easy to be cynical these days about the world and, like, that there's just bad stuff and bad people and bad headlines. And my biggest takeaway is, like, just the amount of, like, I don't know what I expected. I wanted to put it out there for me, selfishly, because it was, like, cathartic to write about him. And I wanted to tell his story because he's a pretty private person about his illness. And I'll kind of get into his story a little bit too, which I wrote about. But so I Wanted it to be out there as a tribute to him, and I wanted to just share his story. But the outpouring of support and notes and people sharing their story with me, and just not only friends and family and coworkers, you know, reaching out and offering support, but just, like, total strangers that listen to the podcast, read my blog or whatever, has been, like, totally overwhelming and just kind of amazing and, like, actually, like, really helpful to me and my family. So that side of things has been like, oh, wow, that's not even something I consider just, like, all these people, just total support and kindness from people. So that part has been really cool.
- [07:57]
Michael Batnick
Yeah. We got so many emails from listeners, and I'm sure Ben read all of them, and I did. And two lines that stood out to me. Somebody wrote, grief is a heavy blanket of love. Which is. Which is spot on. Somebody else wrote, it reminded me of a line in the original Blade Runner talking about your brother. The candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long.
- [08:25]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, that one stood out to me, too. It is. It's such. I told you this the other day. It's such a bizarre emotion because, you know, millions and millions of other people have felt it, and some way or another, but it still feels like this. It's like the most personal emotion because of the person and the circumstances. And so it's like all the. All this stuff that, you know, you would imagine to feel the sadness and anger and kind of being numb and. But I've been going through that process for, like, a year now. So. John was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer about a year ago, but he actually had cancer before when he was in seventh grade. That's. That's the really hard part about this for my family, I think, is he went through it. It was a really terrible period in our lives. He got kind of a rare form of leukemia when he was young, actually. It was like we were on a Disney trip. I wrote about this. And the whole trip, he was, like, tired. And I was. I don't know, I was 10 years old, 9 years old, and I still remember this picture of him, like, laying on a bench at Disney taking a nap. And my mom obviously knew something was wrong. She's a nurse. But him. To the doctor, he was diagnosed. He needed a bone marrow transplant to survive, and I was the donor. I still have, like, the bumps on my hip that you can feel from, like, the huge needles they inject. And he survived. Cancer went into remission, and it was like, whoa, we dodged a bullet, right? But, like, that experience Shaped him for the rest of his life in, like, positive and somewhat negative ways. I almost equate him to being, like, a. I don't know if it's a 60, 40 portfolio or, like, a cynical might not be the right word, but, like, cynical optimist. Right? He had, like, both of these two competing things in his head of, like, I went through this once, but I just think that I'm unlucky with this stuff. And he always, like, halfway joked that he's going to die before age 50. And I was saying the other day, that asshole just always had to be right about these things, you know, just, like, annoyingly, right? So he had some other, like, illnesses and surgeries in his life, and he always kind of in the back of his head, felt like, oh, this just something about my body is not right. And so he got sick again. You know, it was almost like he was defeated. But he also, like, he, like, felt in his, like, his bones that it was coming or something. It was very. It was kind of a bizarre situation in that aspect of, like, he's been, like, preparing for this, this whole life. So that part of it is just, like, the hardest part for me. Watching him having this in the back of his head and then that realization coming true, that was tough. But then we went on this roller coaster where the prognosis looked pretty good. If we just have some chemo, things might be okay. And then the prognosis is really bad. At stage four, there's probably nothing you can do. The healthcare side of things is interesting to me because his initial diagnosis was basically like, well, this is the kind of thing where there's nothing you can do. We're going to give you chemo, and then you're probably going to. That'll help manage your pain until you pass away. And he kind of said, I've done chemo before. And he went through a month of chemo and lost a bunch of weight and lost all his hair and just was tired all the time and said, this is not how I'm going out. So he ended up calling these specialists all over the country and is like, I need to try something. And he got. Because his pancreatic cancer had some rare form of mutation or whatever. I'm not a medical person, so I don't know a doctor at a hospital who specializes in these new medications said, I'm willing to let you try my experimental medication. And he tried it, got off chemo, and it, like, it worked. It, like, stopped the cancer from spreading. He gained all the weight back he grew his hair out again and he looked like normal. You wouldn't know from the outside that he was sick. So he got this extra, like six months or so to kind of start riding his bike again and traveling and doing all this stuff. But he also, like, got all of his affairs in order. Right. You know, he stopped working at his job, obviously, and he could help prepare his family because he has a wife and three kids that he's leaving behind. So he got to, like, take all these months to have this second window that we didn't think he was going to have at first. So that part has been kind of a crazy rollercoaster too, just dealing with, are we going to do this? We're not going to do this. And what happened was he. They told him it was inoperable at first. Like, there's nothing you can do about this. The cancer is going to spread and you can't stop it. But with this new drug, it kind of stopped the spread. He found a surgeon in New York who said, I'm going to, I can do this. Let's operate. Because my brother said, I'm not just going to sit and wait till I die. I want to, like, thought swinging. If it's a 0.5% chance that something could extend my life a few years, I'm going to take it. So he went to New York. He had got a surgery, and I had one of those kind of like movie moments where we thought the surgery, we thought maybe like, worst case scenario, they do the surgery, it doesn't work. The cancer continues to spread, and then unfortunately, he passes away. It happened to be that he had complications during surgery and that's how he ended up passing. So he was in New York, had the surgery. I think it surprised a little, all of us, the surgeons especially, but it was one of these weird out of body experiences where my mother calls me and says, your brother is dying. And he's in the ICU and he's got. I don't know, he's going to die very soon. I need you to say goodbye to him. So we put it on speakerphone and, you know, he's got the breathing tube in and all the things on. And it's like you hear in the movies, I say goodbye to him and you hear all the machines start to go, you know, and like he could hear me, which was so. Okay. So that's the sad stuff. I wanted to get it out because I wanted to tell the story. But there's also been, you know, the best advice I've Gotten so far from this is just calling friends, having friends and family send stories and send pictures and talk about him from the positive side of things. And that's like the part of grief that is like, it's unfortunate. That's what has to happen to get you there. But, um, that part of it is, is like, oh, you realize how many people his life touched. And I hear from all these people all the time. So, like, again, the, the. All the outpouring of like, support and condolences and messages from people, people sharing their stories. That part of it, that part has been, has been helpful.
- [15:06]
Michael Batnick
All right. Sorry, just have to get a tissue. So could we share. Can we share the letter that he wrote to his kids?
- [15:15]
Ben Carlson
Yes. So you said through the things he did.
- [15:18]
Michael Batnick
You said this to me as I was sitting down. For. God, that movie sucked. I took my kids to see Dogman.
- [15:26]
Ben Carlson
Oh, my kids went to see it yesterday too. Was it bad?
- [15:30]
Michael Batnick
Okay, it was not. Well, they loved it. It was not for us. For adults, it was hard. So you sent this to me and I sat down and I'm. I start crying and Logan's like, daddy, why are you crying? I said, dad, watch a movie.
- [15:41]
Ben Carlson
So, yeah, so he, he left behind a bunch of things for his kids. He had time, so he. He did a video for his kids. Obviously, you know, he. He left all these instructions and planning for his wife. But then he left this, this email that had, I don't know, 10 or 12 pieces of. Of life advice for his kids. Very simple, like one liners.
- [15:59]
Michael Batnick
Perfect. All right, you want to read or you want me to?
- [16:02]
Ben Carlson
You go ahead. Figure out which ones you like.
- [16:05]
Michael Batnick
Well, I'm gonna read them all because they're all great. Love each other. Handle your business. Figure it out or fix it. I love that one. I hate people that are just like problem oriented. Right, Right.
- [16:18]
Ben Carlson
Bring me a solution, victims. Yes.
- [16:22]
Michael Batnick
Never leave anyone behind. You are each other's best friends. Life isn't fair. Always pay off your credit card bill. Never. All caps ever carry a balance.
- [16:33]
Ben Carlson
See, that was my favorite.
- [16:36]
Michael Batnick
You're going to make mistakes, learn from them and do better the next time. Take care of the cabin. It was a special place to me. Always get a real Christmas tree. Was that a big thing in your family?
- [16:47]
Ben Carlson
Yes, it was. That's why it was such a hard thing for me to realize that I had to get a fake one. But yes, he's very principled guy.
- [16:56]
Michael Batnick
Life is a. Is way better than a screen. Go live it. Be happy with what you have. You don't need as much as you think, Be kind. The world needs more kindness. And I can't read the last one.
- [17:10]
Ben Carlson
All right.
- [17:11]
Michael Batnick
The last one is I love you all, basically.
- [17:15]
Ben Carlson
Yeah. Credit card one is. Obviously, I told his kids, like, just don't forget the credit card one. Okay.
- [17:22]
Michael Batnick
So the. I think the kids are young. It's obviously so tragic and heartbreaking and all that stuff. Yeah.
- [17:30]
Ben Carlson
So his twins are 8, and his oldest daughter is 10. So they're basically the same age as my kids. It's kind of bizarre how close they are in age. And the fact that we both had twins and they are resilient as hell. And that's the best piece of advice you gave me, is you said, hey, listen, Robin lost her dad young. I don't know. How old was she? Yeah. So same age. And you said, the best thing I can tell you is that they're gonna be all right. It's not gonna feel like it's, but they're gonna be all right. Like, it's gonna be a hole in their lives or whatever, but kids are so resilient. And we all realize, like, we have to pick ourselves up. Like, we have to for these kids sake. We can't just sit here and, like, wallow. And so the kids immediately, they wanted to go bowling, and they wanted to go to Dave and Buster's and play video games. They wanted to go sledding and do stuff. And so seeing how resilient they are to this whole thing is. And it's gonna come down later for them. But that. That's obviously my biggest concern. You know, it stinks for me because he was. He was like my confidant about things. He was my advisor. It really sucks for me to lose my big brother, but his wife and kids are obviously. That's. That's like the. Like, their life is. Is forever, you know, separated. And obviously my parents, too. It also puts into perspective, like, so many little things, like going through this. You get annoyed at other people for, like, complaining about their trivial problems, but you realize, like, you can't do that. You can't. You can't, like, compare your level of. Of pain or whatever. Like, how are other people supposed to know? It also, like, makes you realize money.
- [19:00]
Michael Batnick
Stuff just on that. On that point. So I was 25 when my mom died. And one of the things at the time that was unfair that you just mentioned was the hardest part was, like, everybody's life goes back to normal. Yes. Right. And. And again, like, my friends are 25. It's like, you know, we were kids. Ish. But I was still in so much pain, and everybody else was, like, living their own normal life. And obviously, like, I. You know, with the benefit of, like, time and maturity, I learned to, like, you know, let go of those things. But at the time. But really, that part of it was really difficult. Just the world moves on. But there's a phrase like, life is for the living, and it's true. And one of the things that I've said to you is that the unbearable pain subsides because it has to. Right. Like, if. If it didn't, your body would. Your brain would just shut down your body, like the pain. So it does. It does get better over time.
- [19:53]
Ben Carlson
Yeah. I made. I made the comment to my. My dad the second day or something, and I said, it's weird to think about it this way, but it can't get any worse than this. Like, the feeling can't get any worse. It can only get better from here. Which. Yeah, it's a. It is a. You're right. You're. If you had that same initial feeling the whole time, you wouldn't be able to function as a human being. And humans are resilient.
- [20:15]
Michael Batnick
One of the silver linings about losing my mother, who is a huge. She was the center of my universe. I was definitely a mama's boy. And losing her, it's such a great reminder to live aggressively now. Sometimes I probably take it too far, but life is a blessing, and you really don't. You can't possibly have that perspective without having had this sense of loss, like a lot of people. Like, so to me, would I. Would I reverse it in a second? Of course I would. But it. It ended up being a huge blessing for me because it really shaped the way that I think about life. And without that perspective, a lot of people just go through life like, you know, sweating the small stuff. And I just. I don't let anything bother me. And I don't know if that. Some of that is my personality, but a lot of that is just because, like, what else matters? You know, Like, I just don't let this small shit bother me.
- [21:07]
Ben Carlson
Yes, that. That's certainly a point that, like, the last week, I've just. I've kind of paid attention to nothing and just. Just to this. And it's like the other little stuff that I always think about and look at all the time or I'm concerned about, you realize, like, oh, God. It just. It doesn't. It really doesn't matter.
- [21:22]
Michael Batnick
And the funny thing is, we're all Going to die.
- [21:25]
Ben Carlson
Like, yeah, the funny thing is that was fine.
- [21:28]
Michael Batnick
Just enjoy yourself if you can.
- [21:29]
Ben Carlson
And that was. That was part of John's perspective, too. Again, his earlier diagnosis with his earlier bout with cancer that he was like that, too. He was. He was a very adventurous guy. And the thing that his kids keep saying is, like, life is going to be so boring without him. He was a very adventurous guy. Hiking and biking and kayaking and outdoors. And, you know those people, like, if you're sitting there and you're nothing to do and you play on your phone, even if you're with people, John was the guy. John was never the guy who was, like, playing on his phone. It was always over here. He was that guy who, like, he was in the present. I think the other perspective thing here is that you realize that the money stuff doesn't matter in times like this, but it also really does. And having this extra time to figure stuff out when he knew the prognosis was bad gave him time to go through and get everything really in order. Right? And we're still going to have a heavy lift. And that's the thing I did. I said, Midwesterners bottle thing up. Immediately I jumped into, we need to figure your finances out. Let's start having conversations about this. And he speaks that same language. Great. So we started working on it immediately. All the accounts and credit cards and bank, you know, payments and all this stuff. We have to figure it out and make steps. And as we're going through his stuff, I realized, like, he was, like, way better covered for this than I ever could have imagined. He had all this cash. Like, a huge percentage of his money was sitting in cash. And I said, why are you holding so much cash? You're in your mid-40s. And he said, I needed a backstop for my whole life. His experience with illness in the past changed his perception of risk for the rest of his life. And he had way more money set aside than I probably thought. He had this big life insurance policy. And he talked about the fact that he was one of the, like, the really smartest, like, street smart people that I knew. And he was. He had a very good business mind. And he probably could have done, like, anything he wanted, but he got a job with the CDC in the federal government. He said one of the reasons he did that, I think he actually thought he could. He could be one of the people that, like, changed the government from the inside, which is kind of funny, which shows you, like, the kind of personality he had. Like, if anyone can do It I can. But he also liked the fact that like it had a pension and really good healthcare benefits and it was like a backstop for him. So he had this like very adventurous streak, but also this very conservative side on the other thing. And I, as prepared as he is, it's still going to be a big heavy lift. But I don't know how. I can't imagine how difficult it would be for people who didn't have their financial life in order dealing with a situation like this. That would make it ten times harder to deal with if you weren't a little. If you weren't prepared because he was overly prepared. And his. Luckily his wife and kids are going to be just fine financially because he prepared. And we brought in our RWM family, really stepped up and having an objective third party as a financial advisor to help at times like this has been really huge because you could hear from someone who's in it and knows all the things to be like, you're okay, but if you have someone from the outside come in and say, listen, you're going to be. It's kind of crazy how helpful that objective third party can be that has dealt with this before. But that stuff is. It's funny, I've had a lot of heavy conversations in the past year or so, but that was easy stuff for me. Okay, I know where I can help is the finance side of things because that was the same language that he spoke. But it does show you, like the planning stuff side of it. Like, that stuff is really important. It's way down the list. But it is though. I don't know what else I wanted to talk about.
- [25:17]
Michael Batnick
At least he got to see Michigan with the national championship.
- [25:20]
Ben Carlson
Genesis. Yes.
- [25:24]
Michael Batnick
Did he have a favorite movie?
- [25:25]
Ben Carlson
We did. He left behind a list of songs and movies. And it's funny, he also left behind his wishes for what he wanted to do for a service and we wanted to go out and yes, we've definitely been watching like we put Goonies on for the kids. That was one of his favorite movies. So we put that in and yeah, no, again, the coolest thing for me is hearing from people I haven't heard from in years, friends and people I haven't talked to in a long time. Just to send a note. And you know me, I'm not a big text person. Like, group chats are like poison to me. Like, I'm just not a big group chat guy. But every single text I got from someone just to say. And people would say, listen, I don't know what to say. You don't need to respond. Just wanted to say I'm thinking of you or I love you. And just those things from people as you look. Someone who's not a big part of, like, the small talk and stuff that it almost feels like the mundane stuff is the most helpful. Like, I've been taking my dog on a lot of walks. I've been. It's been snowing here for, like, a week. I've been shoveling snow. Doing the, like, simple, mundane stuff actually is helpful. The kids decided, like, we all want to do our sports this weekend. So we're driving the kids around to their games, the cousins and our kids and my dad and I are talking about college basketball on the way. He kind of looks over at me and, you know, just some stupid stuff about college basketball. He says, you know, isn't it nice to just talk about stuff that doesn't matter right now? And so I think that's one of the reasons that I wanted to, like, still get on this podcast and talk is that, like, I want. I want to have some mundane talk. So I know this has been very heavy. I appreciate people for listening again, sending support, but I also want to, like, can we just have some small talk? Can we, like, talk about the markets? Tell me about your trip to Florida.
- [27:08]
Michael Batnick
I got some small talk. All right. So, Ben, I love you. I got a lot of people reaching out, just asking how you were doing, and my response was basically like, not, I guess, I bet, like, as you probably would imagine, he's doing, like, not great.
- [27:23]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, as. Yeah, as expected. It's been tough. I've been. It's one of those things, like, you. You think you've prepared yourself for it, knowing it's coming, and then you still know you're really not prepared. So, yeah, it's. It is kind of a surreal experience. But I don't know, we're happy. Like, we had no regrets. He went out. He wanted to go out swinging, and he did. And so we all feel like that he. The whole burning the candle on both ends, saying, he, He. He did that. Um, he went out his own way. And, yeah, we just keep. Our mantra now is like, to live like John and just. Just enjoy while you're here. And so that's. That's where if.
- [28:01]
Michael Batnick
If you didn't read Ben's post to learn a little bit more about the type of person John was, he sounded like an incredible guy. And your parents did. Your parents did good work with the three of you.
- [28:11]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, the one. Yeah, the one Other story I wanted to share that I shared in the blog post, which it didn't really hit me until years later. So John gets diagnosed with cancer. A year later, he's in remission, and the Make a Wish foundation, you know, comes to and says, what do you want? He, you know, he. He almost died. He was in a bad place. And I don't know, I would have asked for a whole room full of Nintendo games or kids, you know, anything. And he asked for a trip to Hawaii for a whole family. So we went for two weeks. We went to Hawaii, all expenses paid trip. They rolled out the red carpet, they brought a limo. And at the time, I didn't really think about it, like, oh, cool, we get to go to Hawaii, swim with dolphins and sea volcanoes. My kids are laughing. Cause we were telling the story that we went on a helicopter ride there, and the helicopter pilot was like a maniac. And he's going up and down over these hills and we get off the helicopter and we get on the tarmac or whatever, and I puked everywhere. Just blew it out all over the. And we still laugh about that. But I thought about, like, years later, like, oh, my gosh, he was a kid that could have been so self. He could have said, I want to meet my favorite athlete. I want to meet this actor. I want to do any of these things. But he. I think he instinctively knew, like, our family needs to, like, get away after having this experience. We, like, need to go. And I thought just him, he was always, like, very wise beyond his years in that sort of thing. So it didn't hit me till later, like, oh, my gosh, how did he know that we needed that? And I think we did. So anyway, yeah, I'm doing about as could be expected. I'm more worried about his wife and kids and my parents for everything they've gone through. But yeah, again, thanks to everyone for all the support and it. It means the world to me. So that. That part is cool. Now let's.
- [29:51]
Michael Batnick
I am going to be having a Miami Vice after I'm done recording this in John's mountain. So, Ben, I'm. I'm down here in Naples with my family, and you're much better at this than I am. But I was thinking about the people at the pool. I know you did this bit already, but, you know, there's always a couple of people, one, two, whatever. Doesn't have to be a guy or a girl. It could be either. That are just obliterated by the sun, right? Just like, not even red Just pink. And you're like, dude, you're what? And they just still have their shirt off somehow?
- [30:26]
Ben Carlson
Yes. With the tan lines. Yes. They're making the most of it.
- [30:34]
Michael Batnick
Let me ask you this. So we're at a nice hotel, and we're sitting down on the lounge chairs. And the guy next to me, you can tell that he's been here a bunch of times, knows his staff, they come over to him. Or somebody comes over to him, sets him up, says, hi, whatever, small talk. And the guy just seems like a really nice guy. Just, you know, Midwestern nice. And handed him a hundred dollars bill. And I was talking with Robin later in the day, and I said, did you see the people next to us? I said, I want to be that guy. And she goes, why? You seem like such a douche. And I was like, you saw he gave him a hundred dollars. She's like, yeah, what a douche. And I was like, huh? I had such a different reaction. And I understand her reaction, which I'll tell you about in a second. But from my point of view, I love this topic of the show. I love tipping, and I love the idea of being able to give a service worker $100. Cause it means a lot. And so that'll make their day.
- [31:32]
Ben Carlson
They'll remember that, right?
- [31:34]
Michael Batnick
That's all I was coming from. Not like, oh, I just. I love to be able to make people happy. And I.
- [31:40]
Ben Carlson
What did she think? He was being flashy.
- [31:42]
Michael Batnick
So what she thought, and she's right, was she's like, okay, I hear you on the Making People's Day part. Like, obviously. But you do. If that was really the objective, you do that after, right? Like, you do that when you settle up.
- [31:57]
Ben Carlson
Okay, all right.
- [31:58]
Michael Batnick
So her point was, she did it at the beginning so that he can get better service. And I was like, yeah, yeah, that's true. But so what? So it's sort of like when you. When, like, you leave a. When you make a donation online, like a GoFundMe thing. So, like, you could leave your name or you could do it anonymously. So I have, like, principles for this if I am making a donation. So for, like. For, like, my temple or something, right? If they're doing, like a fundraiser or whatever, I will make my donation for that anonymously. Now, if you talk about if you're giving donations anonymously, does it even matter? Right? So I'm not trying to get credit for that.
- [32:37]
Ben Carlson
Remember, this is a Curb episode, right? Is it where he donated to a museum? And it said donated by anonymous. But Ted Danson put his name on the wall. Yeah, yeah.
- [32:48]
Michael Batnick
So anyway, so for something like that, I'll do it anonymously because I don't want, like, you know, credit for that or anything.
- [32:53]
Ben Carlson
Right.
- [32:54]
Michael Batnick
But if you're making a donation where you think that it can encourage other people to give money, then for that I'm willing to, like, put my name on it. Because if somebody's like, oh, Michael gave this, I can give that too.
- [33:05]
Ben Carlson
Yeah. Social proof.
- [33:07]
Michael Batnick
Social proof.
- [33:08]
Ben Carlson
I like that. That makes sense.
- [33:11]
Michael Batnick
All right. No, no, really, other observations about. About the vacation, just in light of what you're going through. Just trying to enjoy myself with my family. Is it packed? Yeah, it's pretty busy, but it's. It's so. It's not like necessarily kids hotel, so there's stuff for the kids, but it's not. It's not like crazy. It's not like Baja Mara, which I'm sure is. Is nuts this week. All right, let's just do some quick stuff on the market. We had an all time high in the.
- [33:32]
Ben Carlson
Can we move on from egg talk yet or not?
- [33:35]
Michael Batnick
Stay tuned. Okay, I have something later in the show for that. Stock market is hitting an all time high this morning. This is really weird. Meta is up. Like, I don't know if it's 19 days in a row, 20 days in a row, but Mike Harris tweeted that Meta has gained 17 days in a row, which is an extreme event. Using Nor Gate data with current and delisting for the S and P constituents, we find that the maximum has been 19 days. So I think this is a record, which is weird. Why is. It's kind of weird? No.
- [34:03]
Ben Carlson
Would it be a gambler's fallacy thing if you're a day trader, that you just short Meta every day from now on in the hopes that it falls finally?
- [34:09]
Michael Batnick
Probably.
- [34:10]
Ben Carlson
Isn't that like hitting black 19 times in a row?
- [34:13]
Michael Batnick
In roulette, Ben Robinhood has a slide in their earnings call that I really loved. It shows the average cumulative net deposits tend to grow over time across our funded customer cohorts and recent cohorts. Initial deposits are larger, so it shows you 2020 through 2024 by quarter. I've never seen a chart laid out this way. It's really wonderful. But the tldr, for those of you who are listening, is the initial deposits are getting larger every single year as.
- [34:46]
Ben Carlson
Their customers for their new account. Okay, interesting.
- [34:48]
Michael Batnick
Makes more money and grows up.
- [34:50]
Ben Carlson
That makes sense. Okay, that is a cool chart.
- [34:54]
Michael Batnick
Credit to them.
- [34:55]
Ben Carlson
What are they? What do they manage these days. Do you know.
- [34:58]
Michael Batnick
Is it a hundred? Yeah, it was in the deck. 100. I don't want to misquote them. 180 billion, 150 billion. It's a lot. That's a lot. All right. So, Ben, it finally happened. Vanguard. Vanguard's S&P 500 ETF V officially passed. Spy Baltunis is all over this. So just talk about, like, the Bogle effect or the Vanguard effect. And this dovetails in nicely with something that our colleague Nick Maggi tweeted. So, Nick said, I stopped buying active investments, individual stocks, et cetera. When I realized that they monopolized most of my attention. Despite being a small percentage of my portfolio, I watched them all the time. This is why I want passive. And you should, too. You can't put a price on mental freedom. And Nick's absolutely right.
- [35:40]
Ben Carlson
That's a good phrase, mental freedom. I like that.
- [35:42]
Michael Batnick
I spend way too much time. I probably look at my phone to see what the market is doing. My stocks, Bitcoin, whatever. I don't know, 74 times a day. And that counts for something. A lot, actually, and not in a good way.
- [35:56]
Ben Carlson
I feel like the regrets are larger with individual active investments, too. Like, I. I bought a handful of growth stocks in 2021 when things went to shit and crashed. And I think I bought Spotify and Shopify. When they're both down, like, 40% or something. They. Of course, they both crashed way more than that. But when then they turned around, I felt like I'm gonna consolidate some things here and I'm gonna get rid of one of these stocks and I just get rid. Of course, I got rid of the wrong one. I got rid of. I kept Shopify, which did. Okay, it's done. All right. But Spotify has been going crazy for the past two years. Like, right after I sold it, and you look back and you go, ugh. But that's the kind of stuff that you. If you. If you sold one index fund and bought another index fund, you don't go, oh, no. What did I do? Right? That only happens with individual positions like this, right?
- [36:44]
Michael Batnick
So anyway, so then later on in Nick's Twitter feed, somebody, quote, tweeted Nick about that tweet and said, I truly wish stocks would go down for, like, five to 10 years. I'm so sick of everyone thinking stocks are free money, because that is what we've become. This used to be a really hard game that required an omnicron of skill once upon a time. But now an ape can just buy and hold till rich and Nick, quote, tweeted him and said there's a subset of active investors out there that want to see stocks destroyed to teach passive investors a lesson. We will have such a decade eventually. He's right that stocks aren't free money. But hoping for this is not the way. No one wins in a deep recession. And I get the person's mentality. It's a loser's mentality. Am I calling this person a loser? And then I get obviously Nick's point and maybe you should rethink that. Do you really want stocks going down 5, 10 years? Are you really that bitter that you want everybody else, including, like, just regular people, because stocks go down for five to 10 years because nasty shit is happening in the economy. And do you really want to.
- [37:42]
Ben Carlson
We had that in the first decade.
- [37:43]
Michael Batnick
Of the century just to teach people a lesson like, come on, grow up.
- [37:47]
Ben Carlson
We had that already. And again, if you're a new investor, you didn't experience that. But the lost decade was a terrible period. And we've had other lost decades too. Emerging markets went through a lost decade where nothing happened. I think it was like 12 years or something.
- [38:00]
Michael Batnick
Also, Nick is not a. Nick is not a. Stocks go up all the always guy. Like he's a keep buying guy. Which is. Which sounds the same, but it's not. I don't think Nick would ever say that stocks are free money or guarantee. Like that's not his. That's not his thing. It's just that, you know, his. His thing is like accumulated income, producing assets, buy great, you know, all that sort of stuff. Whatever.
- [38:23]
Ben Carlson
Yeah. And then the hard part is you keep buying even when stocks are down.
- [38:26]
Michael Batnick
Yeah, that's right. That's right. You take advantage of that. All right. Buco Capital tweeted software develop developer job postings over the last five years. Hard to find a crazier chart. So remember like. Like learn to code was the thing. So during the pandemic, this went straight up and straight down.
- [38:45]
Ben Carlson
Is it a really bad thing if we're just back at 2020 levels or should this be way higher because there's so many more tech companies now?
- [38:50]
Michael Batnick
I don't know. I just think it's like a reflection of the AI.
- [38:52]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, I mean, it does look like a meme.
- [38:53]
Michael Batnick
That's how wild that is.
- [38:55]
Ben Carlson
Yeah. It's funny. Isn't that like the biggest. I know people keep talking about AI being this job destroyer. Isn't it going to be programmers that have the most jobs destroyed potentially?
- [39:07]
Michael Batnick
I think so. I Think that's what this is showing?
- [39:09]
Ben Carlson
Yeah.
- [39:09]
Michael Batnick
Okay, so one of the things in crypto is like it has no use case and we don't need to rehash it like you know, everyone. It's a pretty tired story but it is kind of wild in the context of how much money came into crypto. So I can't read who this chart is from. Apelion. Is that what it says? My eyes are bad. But there's a chart showing life to date. VCP investments in crypto startups is now $96 billion. That's crazy. Almost $100 billion went into crypto companies. And you know, we've got, we've got Coinbase, we've got Circle and Tether and you know, a gig, a ton of money in stablecoins.
- [39:57]
Ben Carlson
But it's surprising more of these haven't worked out. I think that's.
- [40:00]
Michael Batnick
Although, but here's the thing, right. I guess it's complicated and like that there's like nothing to show for it is kind of ridiculous. I mean I think that on the one hand like what sort of returns were had by the $96 billion? I don't know. I guess we'll find out. But yeah, there's not, there's no like consumer app which is, you know, one of the things that people are waiting for. But the nothing to show for part is kind of nuts because there's $100 billion in the ETFs. And yeah, like I think that's something that pisses people off. It's just a number go up story. But yeah, that's, that's the story and it's a big deal.
- [40:33]
Ben Carlson
I think it's just. Yeah, what we have to show for it is not what people would have.
- [40:36]
Michael Batnick
Expected, probably not what the investors expected.
- [40:39]
Ben Carlson
Because it's like a barbell. You have the ETFs over here and you have like meme coins over here. Yeah, that's not the outcome people were expecting.
- [40:45]
Michael Batnick
Not what the investors were expecting for sure. Ben, I'm guessing you missed this over the weekend, but there's a story that the president of Argentina is pumping and dumping a meme coin Libra and Portnoy got involved. Did you see any of this?
- [41:01]
Ben Carlson
No, it doesn't sound shocking to me. The president of Routine and Dave Portnoyo. Nope, sounds about right.
- [41:09]
Michael Batnick
Yeah. Okay. Okay. This is surprising.
- [41:13]
Ben Carlson
So. But, but there's just never going to be any repercussions though I guess for people who pump and duck meme coins, that's just eh. It's Fair game.
- [41:21]
Michael Batnick
I don't know, it's.
- [41:23]
Ben Carlson
I mean, it seems like it, doesn't it. I don't know, it's like reputational risk. But if you have no shame, what do you care? Oh, well.
- [41:33]
Michael Batnick
Oh, well.
- [41:34]
Ben Carlson
All right.
- [41:34]
Michael Batnick
I guess so. Okay, so Variety had a post on YouTube and here's the TL Dr. YouTube is now. I'm sorry, the TV is now the number one device for YouTube viewing. The TV. More people watch YouTube on their TV than on their phone and their computer, which is, I guess, where it started.
- [41:52]
Ben Carlson
Well, my kid, my kids view it as another app. So it's like Netflix and Amazon prime and Hulu and YouTube. That's kind of. They view it like a streaming service.
- [42:00]
Michael Batnick
Yeah, so. So According to Nielsen, YouTube has been the number one service in time spent viewing on the US on the TVs for the past two years. 11% captured of TV usage. Netflix is 8.5%, prime is 4%, Hulu two and a half. And Disney too. Did you start watching again? I feel weird asking you this given, you know, all the shit you've been dealing with, but did you start watching paradise yet?
- [42:25]
Ben Carlson
No, that one is on my list. I did get into some TV lately. I'll share it in, Rex, but I worth watching.
- [42:31]
Michael Batnick
For me, paradise is very good. It feels. It feels. Although I feel like maybe it's too premature to say that I've seen four episodes. It feels like Lost. Only in the sense that you really want to see what happens during the next episode. It's very bingeable. It's not like Lost in the sense that like it's completely open ended. So they give you the spoiler in the first episode and then there's a billion flashbacks to like fill in the missing pieces or to fill in the story. So I'm into it. All right. This is a face blower. There's a picture of Richard Belding. And if that name means nothing to you, Richard Belding was the principal in Saved by the Bell. So somebody tweeted, if you were born before 1984, you're now older than Mr. Belding in the first seasons of Saved by the Bell. How does it make you feel, Ben?
- [43:15]
Ben Carlson
Middle aged. I saw it the other day when I walked into. I'm not ashamed to say I definitely have been drinking a decent amount lately. I had definitely had to drink myself to sleep the first couple days.
- [43:26]
Michael Batnick
Well, I don't mind saying that you would have done this with it without me, but that was my advice. Yeah, you said alcohol is the only answer.
- [43:33]
Ben Carlson
And God bless my wife. She checked in on me. Are you okay? I said, yes, I just need a couple days here. But I walked into the Boo store and I bought a bunch of beer and it said, if you were born on this date before 2004. And I'm doing the math in my head. I'm like, oh, my God, Father time.
- [43:49]
Michael Batnick
You'Ve been 21 for a long time.
- [43:51]
Ben Carlson
Yeah.
- [43:52]
Michael Batnick
Somebody said to us, so we've been talking about how expensive Disney is. And somebody said, I'm traveling to Disney World with my family this week and wanted to prove that it can be done without breaking the bank. Also, FYI, the day after Thanksgiving is the busiest day of the year for Disney, so it's stay away from that. Ben, did you say you're doing that?
- [44:08]
Ben Carlson
I think we want to go leading up to Thanksgiving. That's what my wife is planning.
- [44:11]
Michael Batnick
Okay, um, so here's their. Here's their budget coming from Oklahoma. Flight 750. Hotel 550. Four nights. Breakfast included at Homewood Suites. Disney tickets, 1450. One day Magic Kingdom, one day Epcot. Two adults, two kids, one infant. Rental car 250. Food 500. Souvenirs 200. Miscellaneous 200. Total 3,900. He said the big savings, because that does seem pretty light. The big savings. Fly to discount airline, staying in a non Disney hotel and no Animal Kingdom. I agree. Animal Kingdom is pretty much a waste. Okay, so there you have it.
- [44:52]
Ben Carlson
So I'm stealing this take from someone else, but someone made the point, I don't know, on Twitter or somewhere that it's kind of funny that the free breakfasts are usually at the lower end hotels, not the upper higher end hotels like you would expect. If you're paying a lot of money for a hotel, you should get the free breakfast. But no, it's the opposite, right?
- [45:09]
Michael Batnick
Yes. All right, Ben, you mentioned something about eggs. I want to play you. So somebody suggested that we call our listeners filthy Animals. And I think I'm going to stick with that. I like it.
- [45:20]
Ben Carlson
Not bad.
- [45:21]
Michael Batnick
Okay, so a filthy animal sent us a song that they made on ChatGPT. Now, the first, the opening of the song is pretty cheesy, but let's just get through the first. The first lines and then I think it's pretty good. All right, let me play this then.
- [45:37]
Ben Carlson
Who's singing it? An AI singing it.
- [45:39]
Michael Batnick
Yeah.
- [45:43]
AI Generated
Well, well, Michael and Ben. They talk stocks every day, Breaking down markets in their own kind of way. Michael's got charts, Ben's got the vibe. Together they keep the Retail crowd alive. Now Michael, he's got a bone to pick with those four little rings on a Nauti stick. Says German made junk. It's a money pit. Ben just laughs, says, that's your bit. Ben says, eggs are 20 bucks. Well, that's just life. Michael stares back like he's seen a poltergeist. Man, are you serious? The price is insane. Ben shrugs it off like it's pocket change. Oh, mark is up and the mark is down. Michael and Ben break it all down. Techies fly and rates are high. Still rocking Hawaiian shirts looking real fly. They got growth stocks, ETFs, bonds on deck. Ben says, go passive, man, just don't stress. Michael's all in checking wicks and lines. Ben's like, come on man, let's have a good time. They both agree on one thing for sure. Hawaiian shirts make a portfolio. Pure Buffett would wear em if he had the nerve. Got a dress for success and a tropical curve. Ben calls, made a Facebook like it's still on nine. Michael rolls his eyes but lets it slide this time.
- [46:52]
Michael Batnick
All right, not bad.
- [46:53]
Ben Carlson
So that's like a Blink 182 version of animal Spirits.
- [46:57]
Michael Batnick
Not bad.
- [46:58]
Ben Carlson
What is it? Eggs are 20 bucks and Ben just shrugs it off.
- [47:00]
Michael Batnick
Ben says eggs are 20 bucks. While that's just life, Michael stares back like he's seen a poltergeist.
- [47:05]
Ben Carlson
All right, not bad. That was good.
- [47:10]
Michael Batnick
All right, Ben, we had an email as parents. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Is it tacky to give a link for 529 contributions in lieu of gifts for a child's birthday party?
- [47:22]
Ben Carlson
No, I've done this before. No, I'm kidding. I gave a link to my parents and said, hey, if you ever want to just give 529 instead of here's the link. And most places make it very easy to do, but I think it's this person's point.
- [47:40]
Michael Batnick
Like, yeah, with family it's totally normal.
- [47:42]
Ben Carlson
But it's a family thing. Yes, for friends it's a little. Might be tacky, but I'd say. But I've had friends do it before without me asking and I, I obviously appreciate it, but yes, for family I think it's totally above board. Okay, what do you think? You think it's tacky?
- [48:03]
Michael Batnick
I don't know if it's tacky. It's. It's a little odd. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I don't, I don't have strong thoughts. I'm not sure. All right, I'VE got this. This might upset some people. I'm just throwing a grenade for no particular reason.
- [48:16]
Ben Carlson
Bring it.
- [48:17]
Michael Batnick
Okay. When people have a literal whiteboard on. On their background on zoom. It's a little weird.
- [48:27]
Ben Carlson
What do you mean, a whiteboard?
- [48:28]
Michael Batnick
Like, an actual. Like a physical whiteboard that they're, like, writing Sharpies on, or. Not Sharpies. Magic markers, where they're like. You know, it's like they're taking their notes, whatever.
- [48:38]
Ben Carlson
Right. There's easier places to take notes these days.
- [48:41]
Michael Batnick
I mean. Yeah. Like on your phone.
- [48:43]
Ben Carlson
Yes. This is not 1993. That's fair, right?
- [48:48]
Michael Batnick
Little weird.
- [48:50]
Ben Carlson
I don't know. I've got books behind me, and that's kind of a flex. So I feel like the whiteboard is kind of like books behind you. It's kind of like a flex. Like, look at me. I'm smart. I write stuff down and I read.
- [48:58]
Michael Batnick
Yeah. All right, Ben. I can't figure this one out. So I still have the line on my tv.
- [49:09]
Ben Carlson
How many years are we going on here? That's pretty impressive that you haven't given in yet.
- [49:12]
Michael Batnick
Five years. Has it been five years? No, it can't be. Maybe it can be. So I moved that.
- [49:17]
Ben Carlson
So you just got used to it?
- [49:19]
Michael Batnick
Not really. Well, yeah, actually, no, I did get used to it. So the lines aren't growing. They're not, like, expanding or multiplying, but they're there. So anyway, there was. Oh, separate. Okay. So the line of my TV is still there. Upstairs, downstairs. I replaced my Samsung because that's what the line is. I replaced my Samsung with a Sony. My TV downstairs was frozen with a Samsung logo on it, and I thought I was hallucinating. Like, I even took a picture of it. Like, am I on drugs? How is a Sony tv? Why is there, like, the Samsung logo on the picture of my screen? Frozen. And it was. It was, like, floating on my tv, and I don't have any Samsung devices connected to that tv. Is Samsung, like, punking me?
- [50:06]
Ben Carlson
Did you Google this?
- [50:09]
Michael Batnick
What would I even Google? Why is there a Samsung logo floating on my Sony tv? Yeah, it was very strange. Lastly, I saw this. I saw this on the Internet this week. There was a fight at Madison Square Garden, and it reminded me of something that I've been thinking of for a long time.
- [50:21]
Ben Carlson
Wait, were you there when this fight was going on?
- [50:22]
Michael Batnick
No, I was not. So you don't. You don't see. You don't see fights, and it's probably the same reason you don't see fights at a basketball game. For this, you know, because at football games, people are, like, wasted, right? They're there tailgating, they're drinking for six hours, whatever. So it's probably the same reason why you don't see, but you don't see. You never see people run into a basketball court.
- [50:40]
Ben Carlson
Oh, like people run onto a football field. Yeah, that's true. Or even you think it'd be easier to run on a basketball court.
- [50:47]
Michael Batnick
You never say it, ever.
- [50:49]
Ben Carlson
I wonder if it wouldn't have the shock value as much, because on a football field, it's so big.
- [50:54]
Michael Batnick
You can see on the basketball court. Where are you going? Also, you know what? These people are smart. You don't want to get tackled on the hardwood.
- [51:00]
Ben Carlson
That's true. It hurt a lot more. Yeah, probably. People think it's harder to get out, too. I mean, they always get caught. It's like, what do those people think is going to happen, though? Like, they're happy spending a night in jail or whatever.
- [51:12]
Michael Batnick
I don't think it's well thought out.
- [51:13]
Ben Carlson
Well, true.
- [51:15]
Michael Batnick
Okay, Ben, what were you able to get into this week?
- [51:20]
Ben Carlson
So my son is still fully into skyscrapers, so I made him watch man on Wire with me. It's on Peacock, I think. Have you ever seen this documentary before?
- [51:32]
Michael Batnick
No.
- [51:32]
Ben Carlson
It's about the guy who sent a wire between the World Trade Centers in the 1970s and then walked on them and balanced on them without any line on himself. He was a French guy. It's an amazing, amazing story how they did this. The World Trade Centers were just being finished, and him and his friends had to come up with this cockamamie scheme to get to the top floor and pretend they were other people and they were hiding. And then he, like, shot a bow and arrow with this wire across. And then the guy literally back and forth walked between the two twin towers with one of those, you know, big balancing sticks. And it's this French guy. And he would lay down on the line and the cops are waiting on both sides for him to get off. And he would walk all the way, and the cops were about to grab him. And he'd walk backwards and he would smile at him. And they asked him afterwards, like, why did you do it? And he's like, I just wanted to do it. He didn't have any big. He wasn't, like, trying to. Like, today, that guy would be a YouTube star, right? He'd have a YouTube channel like me Walking on My Tightrope. But back then, he just. Him and his friends thought it'd be cool to do and it's an amazing, amazing documentary.
- [52:33]
Michael Batnick
Huh. Did you ever show George San Andreas the movie with the rock?
- [52:36]
Ben Carlson
Oh, of course. He watched all the rocks movies. There's actually a movie called Skyscraper which we obviously watched a couple weeks ago. I watched Most of the SNL50. Did you watch any of it? Okay. I mean half of the sketches and bits were good, half of them were just okay. It was kind of amazing to see that many famous people all in one room though. I enjoyed it. I don't really watch SNL anymore. I just watch the clips on YouTube or social media. But for a long time there, for, I don't know, 10 or 12 years, I watched like every SNL.
- [53:06]
Michael Batnick
So what was peak SNL for you?
- [53:08]
Ben Carlson
Oh, it's obviously the Farley Sandler. It's what you grew up with. But that Farley Sandler. David Spade, Tim Meadows, Chris Rock.
- [53:17]
Michael Batnick
Tim Meadows. I love the ladies, man. That was a great one.
- [53:20]
Ben Carlson
Yeah.
- [53:21]
Michael Batnick
So I was a little bit old. I was. Because you're a little bit older than me. Mine was like the Will Ferrell. Cheryl Sherry Oteri. Yeah, right.
- [53:28]
Ben Carlson
Yeah. But I mean we used to watch the best of Will Ferrell and Chris Farley in college all the time, which shows how long ago they were on. And I watched the first episode of the new White Lotus and I'm in. I think I said this before. They could do 10 seasons of this and I'd watch every one of them just the same beat of we're going to a nice place. The first episode, you know, they're going to show a dead body and then we're going to have to figure out how they did it. I'm sure it'll get old eventually, but I don't know. I don't know when.
- [53:54]
Michael Batnick
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Like, as long as they keep. The quality is so good. And I, I realized. So Robin sent me like a. Something on Instagram with like saw a lot of like the hidden gems in the first episode and not even hidden necessarily, but I'm, I'm a very non observant watcher. Like for example, I didn't even necessarily pick up on the fact that like the, in the last scene. Not to spoil it because it's, it's. I won't spoil it. But the last scene with the brother in the bathroom, the other brother looking. Did, did that even. Did you pick up on that?
- [54:25]
Ben Carlson
Not really. No. I don't, I don't. Yeah, I'm not looking for clues either.
- [54:29]
Michael Batnick
Okay. I'm not alone.
- [54:31]
Ben Carlson
But I, I Did think. And this is. We've got a lot of people like North Carolina ties that work with us. Duncan is a. Is a North Carolina guy. I thought the North Carolina family, they, like, they walked up and they talked about how this kid went to Duke and this kid went to North Carolina, and I thought that was just perfect. I thought they nailed back that family.
- [54:47]
Michael Batnick
So. Yes. All right. Two emails. By the way, they're making a Goonie sequel. Did you know about this?
- [54:54]
Ben Carlson
My kids will be in.
- [54:57]
Michael Batnick
All right.
- [54:57]
Ben Carlson
I don't know if I will be.
- [54:59]
Michael Batnick
Longtime fan in Alaska wondering how you'd rate your ability to gauge the quality of a movie based on the trailer. Oh, okay. That's a good one. Michael talking about cordially invited almost sounded like he expected it to be good. That steaming pile could be sniffed out five seconds into the trailer. I am mostly a Ben movie guy and recommended the Ed Helms movie Together. Together. Okay. So I had no expectations of. Of cordially invited would be. No. Was that. Yeah, I. I didn't think it was going to be good, but. So let me not answer your question first. I don't watch trailers anymore. If I. I mean, if I can avoid them, I do. I like to. Raw dog movies. I've said this before, but I do like to think that I'm. Some trailers can't be avoided. For example, like, if you go to a movie, you're seeing the trailers, right? So I guess that's where I. I guess I just told them myself. But there. But. So there are trails that can't be avoided. But I see a lot of movies that I've never seen. The trailer for, like Strange Darling, for example, that was a win. But Captain America, Brave New World, I knew that was gonna be trash. So to answer your question, I think I'm pretty good.
- [56:00]
Ben Carlson
I love watching trailers. I still remember, I think we talked about this before. I said the Hangover is the best trailer of all time. Where you watched it and you go, that is gonna be an amazing movie. And it lives up to it.
- [56:11]
Michael Batnick
You're right. So for an example. For example, there's a new movie coming out called Friendship with Paul Rudd. And is his name Tim Robinson? I'm not really familiar with his work.
- [56:23]
Ben Carlson
Yes.
- [56:24]
Michael Batnick
Okay.
- [56:24]
Ben Carlson
He's a Detroit guy.
- [56:25]
Michael Batnick
So based on that trailer, I know for a fact, minus 2000, that movie's going to rock ass.
- [56:34]
Ben Carlson
Okay. I thought it looked a little weird, actually. I'm a trailer guy, though. I love. I love watching new trailers.
- [56:40]
Michael Batnick
Okay.
- [56:41]
Ben Carlson
So I think I'm pretty good at Determining if they're good or bad at that.
- [56:45]
Michael Batnick
We'll end on this. You know what, Ben? This is a setup. We're going to answer this next episode because I need to think about this. I would love to hear you guys debate the following. What are the top 10 shows of the golden age of television? And let's define the golden age of television as a non broadcast network show that ran from 2001 to 2025. Ooh, non broadcast. That's interesting. Okay. I bring this up because some buddies and I were discussing the Americans. I never saw the Americans. During its time, that show had about a two season run where it was his hottest succession. True. But for some reason, it just fell off the radar in greatest shows. That is true too. Okay, you know what? We're going to circle back. We'll do that next week because it deserves some.
- [57:21]
Ben Carlson
So they want us to come up with the top 10 shows of the golden age of television.
- [57:24]
Michael Batnick
Yeah, that's homework for next week.
- [57:27]
Ben Carlson
Okay. I mean, the top five is easy.
- [57:29]
Michael Batnick
All right, well, save it.
- [57:31]
Ben Carlson
Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Six Feet under is in there. Ooh.
- [57:37]
Michael Batnick
Okay.
- [57:38]
Ben Carlson
Right. Yeah. So I probably have a few that you wouldn't anticipate, but that's a good question. The first five are easy. The next five are hard.
- [57:47]
Michael Batnick
Okay. Okay.
- [57:51]
Ben Carlson
All right. It was good to chop it up. I feel good. I can't just sit around and not do anything. We did that for a couple days and I realized that's not gonna be helpful. So I need to, like, get back in the mix and do stuff. So this is. This is good. Again, I appreciate all the support from everyone. It's been helpful.
- [58:10]
Michael Batnick
As I said earlier in the show, life is for the living. And obviously you will live in John's honor and do everything you can to honor his memory and all that, all that good stuff. So everybody who emailed us, we appreciate it. Obviously it means a lot to Ben. So thank you for sending that out.
- [58:26]
Ben Carlson
If I didn't get back, I tried to get back to as many people as I could. If I didn't, I apologize. But I really do appreciate it and like, it. Looking through all the comments the past couple days, like, it really, like, it was really, like, uplifting to me and like, and very helpful. And just to have people read and understand John's story, to me was very cool because he. I think he deserved it.
- [58:48]
Michael Batnick
Well said, Ben. Okay, Animal spirits at the compound news, thank you everybody for riding with us for 400 episodes. We love you guys. We'll see you next time.