Animal Spirits Podcast — Live from Future Proof 2025 (EP. 429)

Date: September 10, 2025
Hosts: Michael Batnick & Ben Carlson
Location: Huntington Beach, Future Proof Conference (Year 4)

Episode Overview

This special live episode of Animal Spirits comes straight from Huntington Beach during the Future Proof 2025 conference. Michael Batnick and Ben Carlson reflect on a decade at Ritholtz Wealth Management. They share candid stories about their firm’s growth from startup to industry leader, philosophical and practical lessons learned, and the evolving role of content and culture. The episode is peppered with humorous banter, industry insights, and light-hearted “inside baseball” about advisors, client relationships, and awkward conference eating situations.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reflections on Company Growth & Origins

Timestamps: 03:23 – 08:45

• Startup Struggles:

  • When Ben joined in 2015, Ritholtz Wealth Management (RWM) had $140 million AUM; Ben was the 7th employee.
  • Michael reflects on the seismic financial market changes since—Bitcoin at $228, Nvidia at $0.54 (split adjusted), S&P 500 at 1900, Dow at 16,000.
    • “Hand up. I didn't see that coming. Did not envision that we were about to embark on one of the best bull markets of all time, did you?” — Michael Batnick (04:44)
    • Ben jokes: “Of course. I knew it. That’s why I joined the firm.” (04:53)

• Early Team Culture:

  • The firm aimed to build “infrastructure for a billion-dollar firm” long before reaching 1/20th of that AUM.
    • “It’s some combination of confidence and, like, being naive, that we all believed it at the time, even though we were so far away…” — Ben Carlson (06:12)
  • Early struggles included leasing computers from the Apple Store and nearly missing payroll at times (06:36-06:55).

• Building a Remote Firm by Happenstance:

  • The firm’s accidental foray into being remote (thanks to Ben not moving to NYC) turned out to be transformative when the pandemic hit.
    • “We literally created a remote firm on the fly... Not that we would have kept our fingers crossed for a pandemic, but that was one of the best things that ever happened to our firm in terms of growth…” — Ben Carlson (08:15)

2. Lessons in Client Fit and Saying No

Timestamps: 08:45 – 13:00

• Prioritizing Client Compatibility:

  • Chris Venn (Wealth management architect) championed “client fit” above all else—sometimes turning down massive prospects if they weren’t a philosophical or practical fit.
    • “Some firm or advisor is going to tell you that they're gonna be able to give you what you want. They're not going to be able to, but they're gonna tell you they are. That's just not us.” — Chris Venn (via Ben Carlson, 10:13)
  • Michael and Ben reminisce about times they invested energy into difficult prospects (e.g., “South African brothers with Zero Hedge-ish questions”) yielding no results (11:19-12:00).

• Firm-Wide Responsibility:

  • Refusing misaligned clients isn’t just for the advisor’s sanity—bad fits burden the entire team: operations, traders, support staff (12:21).
    • “It’s really selfish to… take a bad client for the short term. No, we don’t do that. We used to do that. Not anymore.” — Michael Batnick

3. Overnight Success is a Myth & Evolving Expertise

Timestamps: 13:01 – 16:33

• Slow, Hard-Fought Growth:

  • Early on, there was no institutional “cred”; big endowments weren’t beating down the firm’s door.
    • “Expertise or experience is not the same thing as expertise. But for some things, you just have to put in the time…” — Ben Carlson (14:01)
  • The development of content—blogs, podcasts—was organic, not a part of a master plan. Content’s “flywheel” effect (attracting clients over time) was a surprise.

• Content as The Unplanned Engine:

  • “I never considered the fact that the longer and more and consistently we produce content, eventually those people come to us because they have stuff going on in their life.” — Ben Carlson (15:07)
  • Working together (like “Voltron”) came naturally as the hosts/bloggers enjoyed the process, before realizing its business power.

4. Company Strategy: Growth, People, and Culture

Timestamps: 16:33 – 21:48

• Growth Milestones (or Lack Thereof):

  • Asset size was never the main goal—barring an early, naïve “let’s get to $3 billion and coast” notion.
    • “We never spoke about asset milestones, like, ever... It was always: what are we doing, what’s working, what’s not working, where do we want to spend money.” — Michael Batnick (17:15)
  • As the firm hit new scales, their main focus became delivering on promises to their people—a competitive “we never stop” culture.

• Hiring Philosophy:

  • “If it’s not an obvious yes, it’s a no”—a mantra that’s helped them hire 27 advisors with only 1.5 misfits (19:39).

• Content & Work-Life Fit:

  • The hosts admit their “sick brains” are wired for markets and content; hobbies are few.
    • “We don’t have a lot of, honestly, hobbies. And that sounds kind of loserish, but this is the stuff that we enjoy doing too.” — Ben Carlson (21:05)

5. The Future, Independence & Maintaining Identity

Timestamps: 21:21 – 22:27

• Thinking About the Next 10 Years:

  • Uncertain mapping; no outside money is a point of pride (“Band of misfits”).
    • “You can’t put a price on freedom. But I don’t know if a bill…” — Michael Batnick (21:54)

• Adapting as They Grow:

  • RWM has become “more corporate” out of necessity, now with nearly 80 employees, but they fight to maintain their non-corporate roots.

6. Podcasting & Unintended Consequences

Timestamps: 22:27 – 24:30

• The Podcast as a “Lark”:
  • Initial reluctance and imposter syndrome; practiced five or six episodes before going live (22:47).
  • The podcast has become a recruiting tool—a channel for hiring advisors and staff unexpectedly.
    • “Think about how many people we've hired because we put it out on the podcast... So, it is interesting just to think about all the offshoots...” — Ben Carlson (23:29)

7. Conferences, Culture, and the Human Side of Work

Timestamps: 24:30 – 27:20

• Conference Experience:

  • Evolution from traditional stuffy venues (e.g., Union League Club) to embracing Future Proof’s unique, diverse event formats (24:07).
  • Poolside humor—eating at the pool is universally awkward:
    • “No one can ever look comfortable or cool eating at the pool...” — Ben Carlson (25:05)

• “There He Is” Guy:

  • Ben and Michael riff on male conference social dynamics—the ubiquitous and flexible greeting, “There he is,” and its subtle variations (“this guy,” “look what the cat dragged in,” etc.) (25:36–27:19).

8. Lighthearted Closing & Community Vibes

Timestamps: 27:19 – End (~30:26)

• Audiobooks & Midlife:

  • Michael jokes about exceeding Apple's “headphone audio exposure” warnings due to audiobook consumption (27:25).

• Happy Hour Announcement:

  • Dreams fulfilled: Miami Vice frozen drinks at the RWM booth; Ben finally gets his wish after many years (28:28–29:11).
  • Plans for improvements (“No brown rum floaters, but next year we’ll do better!”) and community fun.

• ’90s Nostalgia & Future Opportunities:

  • John Popper of Blues Traveler and Bush performing—fueling the “millennial nostalgia” bull market (29:36–30:10).
  • “Is there a way to invest in millennial nostalgia? Because that is the next big wave. That’s the next big bull market.” — Ben Carlson (30:04)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Hand up. I didn't see that coming. Did not envision that we were about to embark on one of the best bull markets of all time, did you?” — Michael Batnick (04:44)
• “We literally created a remote firm on the fly... Not that we would have kept our fingers crossed for a pandemic, but that was one of the best things that ever happened to our firm in terms of growth.” — Ben Carlson (08:15)
• “If it’s not an obvious yes, it's a no. Like, that's our mantra, and it's not lip service. The proof is in the pudding.” — Michael Batnick (19:39)
• “You can't put a price on freedom. But I don't know if a bill…” — Michael Batnick (21:54)
• “No one can ever look comfortable or cool eating at the pool because you're bending over a table and you're doing this thing and it doesn't work.” — Ben Carlson (25:05)
• “There he is.” (All-purpose male networking phrase, humorously analyzed; 25:36–26:44)
• “Is there a way to invest in millennial nostalgia? Because that is the next big wave. That’s the next big bull market.” — Ben Carlson (30:04)

Important Timestamps

• 03:23 – Transition from Miami mishaps to Ritholtz journey discussion
• 08:45 – Client fit stories & saying “no” to big money
• 13:01 – Overnight success, institutionalization, and expertise lessons
• 16:33 – Asset milestones vs. people & culture as primary focus
• 19:39 – Hiring philosophy, “If it’s not an obvious yes, it’s a no”
• 22:27 – Podcasting as a lark, recruiting unexpected staff
• 24:07 – From traditional to modern conference vibes
• 25:36 – Analysis of “There he is” and other bro-isms
• 28:28 – Miami Vice happy hour announcement, conference community

Summary Tone & Audience Takeaways

True to their podcast’s DNA, Batnick and Carlson combine self-deprecating humor, lively banter, and thoughtful reflection. The episode’s tone is accessible, honest, and community-driven, with occasional “industry inside jokes” that are explained enough for outsiders to follow. Even non-listeners and those new to RWM will glean real insights into building a business around culture, fit, and consistency, while being reminded of the unpredictable role of luck and the importance of enjoying the journey (and maybe a Miami Vice on the way).