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- [00:00]
Michael Batnick
Today's Animal Spirits Talk youk Book is brought to you by Neos investments. Go to neosfunds.com that's N E O S to learn more about their whole suite of high income products. They have a high income ETF on the S&P 500, the NASDAQ, the Russell 2000, Bitcoin, all these different strategies. Check it out at neosfunds.com.
- [00:19]
Ben Carlson
Welcome to Animal Spirits, a show about markets, life and investing. Join Michael Batnick and Ben Carlson as they talk about what they're reading, writing and watching. All opinions expressed by Michael and Ben are solely their own opinion and do not refer reflect the opinion of Ritholtz Wealth Management. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon for any investment decisions. Clients of Ritholtz Wealth Management may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this podcast.
- [00:48]
Garrett Paolella
On today's show we are joined by Garrett Pay Olella. Garrett is the co founder and Managing Partner at Neos Investments. I went for a drink with our good friend Tom Lyden who made an investment into Neos about a month ago. I and I never heard of Neos. And I'm with Tom and Garrett and we're talking, catching up, whatever, and Garrett tells me, so tell me your story. What are you guys doing? And it comes out in conversation. They were at $7 billion in assets and I said holy moly, incredible. And then today after the recording, Garrett said, hey Michael, we remember we were together about a month ago. Today we're at, we crossed $8 billion. So the client demand for these sort of strategies which are transforming a lot of the total return from price into they're chopping it up into a big portion of the total return coming from income. And what can I say, people just.
- [01:56]
Michael Batnick
Love, love, love income and the options based income too. It's just exploded in popularity and going to, we said on the show it's going to continue to grow in popularity because you get this. I've had multiple conversations over the years with retirees who say I don't want to touch my principal, I want to live on income. And I think these kind of strategies, for those people who have that psychological hurdle, these types of strategies make that happen. And for people who want to live off of their portfolio now who aren't retired but just want to have throw some income, I think these products are actually popular with younger investors now too. It's not just retirees.
- [02:32]
Garrett Paolella
Yeah. So of course there is no free lunch in investing. On today's show we get into some of the red flags that people should be aware of as this. I don't know if it's a nascent category, but it certainly is new ish and the growth is, seems to be accelerating. So as more of these come to market, please do your homework, make sure that you understand the trade offs because like everything else in investing, there is a trade off. And so we get into all of that and more on today's show with Garrett Paolella. Garrett, good morning.
- [03:09]
Ben Carlson
Morning guys. Thanks for having me today.
- [03:11]
Garrett Paolella
You're welcome. Thank you for coming on. A congratulation congratulations are in order. You guys won the best new active etf, which is a very competitive category I would imagine for the Neo. Is it NEOs or NEOs?
- [03:24]
Ben Carlson
NEOs.
- [03:25]
Garrett Paolella
Okay. I don't know why I said NEOs. That would, that would be weird for the NEOs NASDAQ 100 High Income ETF. The ticker is Triple Qi QQQI. Why did you get that honor?
- [03:37]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, listen, I think overall as we look to help investors through generating income in tax efficient ways, this product is uni in that sense that we're really focused on leveraging the NASDAQ 100, which historically hasn't had a lot of income thrown off of it in ways to generate that tax efficient income. I think performance was certainly part of the category and considerations as well. And obviously the adoption that the fund's around two and a half billion right now, which is about only 15 months into launch. So certainly client adoption as well.
- [04:07]
Garrett Paolella
Whoa. It's such a hot category these days of clients wanting income and advisors having the tools to deliver it. So I'm looking at the performance of the triple cues versus your product and it tracks fairly close. I mean, very closely. Not fairly closely. It tracks very closely. Not exactly one for one, but effectively they, they do the same thing. And so I'm, I'm guessing that as you just mentioned, you, you are giving a similar return profile except you are transforming some of the price return into income return.
- [04:46]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, I think that was said. Well, the longer term will give up some of that upside. You got to, you know, can't always have your cake and eat it too, you know. So the idea is you give up a little bit of that upside in order to generate that current income through the use of. Right. Selling, you know, call options on the NASDAQ 100 against your NASDAQ 100 position.
- [05:06]
Michael Batnick
Right. So you would imagine, especially in a rip roaring bull market, you're probably going to lag a little bit just by the nature of the strategy.
- [05:13]
Ben Carlson
Exactly. If you're in a ripper and Beaumar market, being long only is obviously going to be a place to be. We should have some general lag to that. And it's more looking at it on a month over month basis than it is really longer term than that.
- [05:29]
Michael Batnick
So some of these strategies will actually sell options on the individual securities. Some use the index. It sounds like you just use the index, is that right?
- [05:38]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, we use index options everywhere we can here at Nios and specifically on this product. Because you get favorable tax treatments on using index options, they can't be called away from you, they're cash settled. So in our opinion there's a variety of benefits for the end investor to use an index option wherever you can.
- [05:55]
Michael Batnick
With a caveat that we're not tax professionals. What are the, what's the, what are the tax benefits here?
- [06:00]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, so when you look at index options, first and foremost they get taxed at a 60% long term capital gains rate and a 40% short term regard.
- [06:08]
Garrett Paolella
What? Yeah, 60%. All right, so say it slowly one more time. Sorry, that's surprising to me. I didn't know that.
- [06:14]
Ben Carlson
Yeah. So regardless of the investors holding period, if the position could be a day, it could be a month, it could be even longer than a year, the index options get taxed at a 60% of allocation to long term capital gains and a 40% to short term because they're cash settled. So that in theory, if you want to think about being in the highest income tax bracket right in the nation, it's going to get you a tax rate of like around 27%. So really advantageous than ordinary income short term. You know, obviously only thing better is going to be, you know, long term capital gains rate on the whole piece, plus you know, Medicare and all the other stuff you got to Pay.
- [06:54]
Garrett Paolella
So that's 60% no matter the holding period. That sounds like a cheat code. Is this something that you discovered or is this just like out there and other people are just maybe unaware? Talk to us about what you're doing versus what a lot of the other people in this giant and growing category are doing.
- [07:12]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, so the index options, certainly no cheat code, it actually falls. If you want to really nerd out. Section 1256 of the IRS tax code kind of goes through futures and index options. Since they're all cash settled, the IRS taxes them in that 60%, 60, 40 way. So not unique to us. What is unique to us is given the fact that these are all income bearing products for us, we want to have the highest net after tax return. So we do embed tax loss harvesting in our investment process also. So there's another layer of things that we look at on the tax structuring, but from the index option standpoint, much more favorable. But that's not unique just to neos. Anyone who trades an index option that's got the capacity to. Right. I mean, if you think about a NASDAQ 100 index option, it's worth about 2.2, $2.3 million for just one option contract. The regular retail investor can't trade usually that amount of size.
- [08:04]
Garrett Paolella
If you were trying to do something similar, but at the individual stock level, I would assume that the tax treatment is different.
- [08:11]
Ben Carlson
That's correct. Single stocks, ETF options, swaps, equity linked notes, all of those get taxed at 100% short term, which ultimately is ordinary income.
- [08:20]
Michael Batnick
So how often are you doing the tax loss harvesting piece? Is that a regular, ongoing thing? Are you more proactive depending on the market environment? How does that work?
- [08:28]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, so it's just a regular thing. So it's embedded in our roll process. So as we roll our options, traditionally especially we're talking qqqi, that's on a monthly basis. And so we're going to look that. Think about this. The easiest way to explain it, market runs 10% in a month, right? And we had sold short call options against our portfolio. That gave us maybe an upside capture of 7 or 8%. We're going to capture all that 7 to 8%. But that 2 to 3% we didn't capture is going to come in the form of a loss against the options. And so when we go to roll our options, we can take a loss of 2 to 3%. And the best part about the ETF structure is those losses get carried forward indefinitely. So we're able to then for that month, the investors up 70% total return, let's just call it 8%. We distribute 1% out to them. So NAV appreciated 7%. They got a 1% distribution. But we were able to take 1% of that 2% upside that was capped as a loss for the portfolio. And so you get to just simply in standard GAAP accounting, you offset a loss versus a gain and the gain is the distributable part of the portfolio.
- [09:38]
Garrett Paolella
There's probably no way for you to know this, but what do you think it is about income that clients are finding so attractive? Because I suspect that most people in this product, they like to see the income hit their account. They're not necessarily using this Product to fund their living. Like they're probably not taking the distributions and living on them. I'm sure, I'm sure there are some people that are. But there's something about seeing that distribution come in that is very seductive, I suppose.
- [10:13]
Michael Batnick
And sorry, it's, it's. And it's a monthly distribution, is that right?
- [10:16]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, everything's a monthly distribution. I think Michael, to answer your question too is like it's actually unique. We see. So nobody's done this longer than us overall. My co founding partner and I, Troy, brought out the very first option based income portfolios and ETFs back in 2013. So under a different company at that point. But as we've seen the market and the adoption shift from income investors, they actually a lot of them like to take that income on a monthly basis. So it's unique in the fact that this used to be focused more on retirement later stage investors that are looking for income. Now we have people in their 20s easily adopting the products because they want to find alternative passive income sources. Right. You know, people who are real estate agents. Right. Or they're out doing something in their core day to day business. They're finding this is a way to supplement their income and their lifestyle, you know, on an ongoing basis. We see all walks of life of who are investing in these types of products and they want to get that in the most tax efficient manner. Especially if they can get income monthly distributed out to their investment account and swept into their bank account at a much lower tax rate than ordinary income.
- [11:21]
Garrett Paolella
I guess that doordash bill ain't going to pay itself.
- [11:24]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, that. Right.
- [11:27]
Michael Batnick
So you have that depending on where you look. The distribution yield of the QQQI is 14 or 15% right now somewhere in that range, depending on where you look. How, how volatile is that payout yield? Like how often? Because obviously that's not the same thing as a yield on a bond. This is, these are, you know, this is not like a bond substitute. But how, how, how much does that fluctuate?
- [11:50]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, so it doesn't fluctuate actually that much. That's part of our investment process. So a little different for us than the rest of some of our competitors out there. We're not focused on distributing way more than we need to. So when volume spikes and you could generate more income, our concept is actually keep a consistent distribution rate, know and understand what they're going to be receiving on a monthly basis. And if we can smooth that out over low volume and high volume times, then that just makes the product that much more consistent for an investor. Some of our other folks that compete with us in the space, like when volume is low, they really reduce their distribution. When volume spikes, they throw out crazy numbers that are just astronomical. In our opinion. It's, let's kind of smooth this thing out for income investors, knowing that they can rely on a pretty consistent basis.
- [12:37]
Garrett Paolella
How are you able to do that? It seems like alchemy.
- [12:40]
Ben Carlson
Yeah. So we look at things a little different, like we target these yields. So as Ben was just talking about, Right. We're looking for kind of a 12 to 15% annualized distribution rate for QQQI. Some of our other products might be in the 10 to 12% range for equity indexes that have a little bit lower volatility. But really to keep it simple for today is when volume is low. That means the equity markets are rallying. We tend to write our options a little closer and on more of the portfolio as soon as we hit that income threshold. That's because you get reverse of the mean. You tend to get an equity market sell off. You get that equity market sell off. Volume goes up significantly, you can generate income on an easier basis. So we're writing those options further out and on way less of the portfolio because you get that bounce back. And the key and more the risk that we like to talk to investors about is how much of your upside are you capping to generate a high amount of current income right off the NASDAQ 100. And so we, on a monthly basis, our models are shifting the options to really take into account meeting that income need. First that the first investment objective of the prospectus states, and then secondarily, we want to capture as much upside as we can by shifting those options.
- [13:47]
Michael Batnick
So Michael asked about the yield thing, and we've been saying for years that we think yield is probably the easiest sale to make. Right. There's not a lot of, obviously there is some explaining to do and some education behind it, but people see the number and sometimes that's all it takes. Do you think that your investors are okay with giving up some upside because they have that more stable yield coming in? Is that, is that the right trade off that people are making here?
- [14:11]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, absolutely. We're very forefront in working with investors and advisors and where these products fit in their portfolios, they're compliments. They're not replacing your whole QS exposure. Right. They're not replacing your whole equity exposure. So you blend this in as part of your portfolio to generate a really above average and tax efficient you know, yield above what you're getting from dividend paying equities, but it's not your whole equity sleeve. And so I think with that it's really around like messaging, it's around working with clients within their allocation framework and so that it's a part of your portfolio. No one investment, regardless of what it is, us or anybody else, should be your entire portfolio, thinking that it's going to be the holy grail.
- [14:49]
Garrett Paolella
This sort of investment might drive some quants nuts because they're like, well, you could just do X, Y or Z and you know, do it yourself or whatever. And I think that the fundamental misunderstanding or what they might not be understanding is that people are willing to pay for an easy button. We're lazy. I mentioned doordash earlier. Like people pay 26 bucks for a Caesar salad to get delivered because they don't want to go out and get it themselves. And this is a very similar concept because there are ways to do this. Why don't you just sell some of your cues and just generate income that way? Like, but this is consistent, it's easy, it's reliable, it's automated, it doesn't break. Talk about the behavioral component of this.
- [15:37]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, so I think you hit the nail on the head. One, it's easy. And I think people like to have that easy button within their overall portfolio as a compliment to their other investments, not just looking at one product. If you're going to do this in your portfolio, there are some structural difficulties. Yes, you can do it. What's different, the main ones I'd point out, is it's not putting the position on once a month for you. If you're trading, you know, QQQ ETF options, those can get called away and that can call your whole position away. So let's just say you owned, right, 10 grand worth of the Qs and you sold a call against it. Right. If the QS run, that person could exercise against you. And now you have a taxable short term gain not only on the option but also on your underlying position. Right. So there's operational, there's a lot of work to it, but then there's also the tax consequences. That trading that ETF option is ordinary income. Getting your whole underlying position called away from you could be a significant taxable gain on your broader part of your portfolio. So this is a way that you can just lay that all off. Let us do it in an institutional manner. Be able to trade those huge institutional contract sizes that give you tax efficiency plus the tax loss, harvesting because that ETF structure, as I mentioned before, it gives you that capability as well to carry losses forward longer than other types of, you know, holding structures.
- [16:55]
Michael Batnick
How proactive do you have to be in trading the options? Because obviously, you know, one of the things I've always thought is you can't, it's hard to do a set it and forget it strategy with options because the prices are changing based on interest rates and based on volatility and where the stock market is. So how proactive does your team have to be when making these trades?
- [17:11]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, so depends on the products. These types of products actually are on more of a monthly cadence. We've spent decades of years managing these types of products and strategies outside of ETS for major institutions. And we've done tons of research and analysis building out our models of like, what's the best risk reward. So on some of the products, they're monthly, on some of them are weekly. We don't go into the dailies because ultimately you're kind of in a synthetic equity exposure and the, in our opinion, not getting as much of the juice. And the volatility reduction that you want. Right, you do want some volume reduction, given their income strategies. But to answer your question, monthly and weekly are our traditional cadences across our products.
- [17:49]
Michael Batnick
Right, because you do have other. You have a strategy that works on The S&P 500, that's spy I, the Russell 2000. And then are those similar, I guess, in nature in terms of how the strategy. Or are those different because of the size of those markets?
- [18:04]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, no, they're all the same. The model runs slightly different just because the volatility levels of those indices are different. But yeah, we're trading an S&P 500 index option, a Russell 2000 index option. But yeah, generally the same concept, just some subtleties of differences really, because the underlying indices.
- [18:21]
Michael Batnick
Okay, so you also have a Bitcoin high income etf, which I would imagine is relatively new.
- [18:26]
Garrett Paolella
What movie is the line from? Like, you want to get nuts? Let's get nuts. What is that from?
- [18:33]
Michael Batnick
Is that what the Bitcoin option is?
- [18:34]
Garrett Paolella
I guess that's what the bitcoin one is.
- [18:37]
Michael Batnick
I imagine this one is a little different, but maybe I'm wrong. How does this one work? How does the bitcoin income product work?
- [18:43]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, so generally same concept in a sense, but in order to get the bitcoin exposure in a 40 act structure, not like a 33 act where all the ETPs live, because we can't trade derivatives and spot Bitcoin all in a 33 act. So there's some structure behind it, but not to go down a rabbit hole. We're essentially giving you exposure to spot Bitcoin through long one of the ETPs as a portion of the holding to what we're allowed to. The other side is creating a synthetic where you sell a bitcoin index option put option and you buy a call option. It gives you delta one exposure. So full up and down exposure being linked to spot bitcoin. And then just like the Q. Q. Q. I or the other products you talked about, we're laddering out short covered calls using bitcoin index options to generate biggest difference Bitcoin volume 60 relative to an S&P at 15 to 18, a Nasdaq historically at 20. So you're generating 25 to 30% a year in distributable opportunity. Just because you're leveraging that bitcoin volume is just incredible.
- [19:46]
Michael Batnick
So are you able to keep that relatively constant too? Or is that a little harder in a strategy this volatile?
- [19:51]
Ben Carlson
No, same thing. So we're shifting our options. I mean, just so for like a quick example, those options can be positioned 15 to 25% out of the money we've seen since we've launched this product and had it out in the last like nine months. And so we're just shifting the amount of overlay percentage and where those options are positioned to keep that consistent. So when volume spikes, again, we don't want to over generate. And when volume bitcoin comes down a little bit, we got plenty of opportunities, still generate income and have upside.
- [20:19]
Garrett Paolella
By the way, it was Michael Keaton and Batman who said that. I forgot about that. But now I'm reminded. All right, so, wow, 25% annualized. Ish. Give or take. The market environment, again, it's the same type of deal where you are transforming the price return, at least a large portion of it into income and yours. Listen, some people might say, well, why would you want to do that? Well, well, maybe you don't, but the proof is in the pudding because you just launched this. At least the proof is important in terms of like, you know, adoption, user demand. You guys launched this in October and It's already at $347 million in AUM. Like, holy. People love. People love income. There's no denying it.
- [21:06]
Michael Batnick
I guess if you wanted like to, you know, some people want to dip their toe into bitcoin or crypto, I guess this would be a way to do that. If you were really nervous about the other aspects of It, Right, yeah, no.
- [21:18]
Ben Carlson
We'Ve seen that, especially more from the advisor side of like client demand pushing. Like I want to own some crypto in my portfolio and like you missed it at 60, then 80, then 100, random 110. You're like, what's, what's the deal? This is a way to kind of dip your toe, get a little bit of that exposure for clients. But know that at least you got, you know, some income being generated off the amount of volatility. If it trades sideways or slightly goes down, you got something there. And you're not just, you know, betting on it going to 200,000 or, you know, a million, depending on whose price targets you follow.
- [21:47]
Michael Batnick
Yeah, and this goes without saying, but it's obvious that these yields aren't based on par. So the price of the underlying goes down. Yes, you're getting a high yield still, but the, you're not getting as much income. Just had to throw that out there, obviously.
- [21:58]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, yeah.
- [21:59]
Garrett Paolella
Well, wait, you are getting as much income. It's just the, the total return is going to go down because the price is going to get crushed.
- [22:04]
Michael Batnick
Well, that's what I, that's what I mean. The, the percentage if, if bitcoin goes from 100 to 50, then you're still getting a 30% yield. Your income gets cut in half. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
- [22:14]
Ben Carlson
Exactly. Yeah. Think about like the best way I've explained this to some people over the last decade or two has just been like, think about it like a real estate position, right? You're building your house is going to fluctuate, but your rental income is going to be able to come in. And so over long periods of time, your underlying appreciates, but over short periods of time or different time frames, your underlying can fluctuate. That's the same in any one of the 12 products that we have here is right. You're using that volatility as a way to generate the income from the underlying. But that underlying exposure, core holding, S and P, nasdaq, Bitcoin will fluctuate with the price of those reference assets.
- [22:50]
Garrett Paolella
We were talking with Todd Sohn the other day and he was, he has a great chart showing some of these single stock levered ETFs. And listen, if you want to trade with leverage, Apple and then a product like that makes sense, right? Like it's, it's less complex. It's the easy button. It's easier than, than, than buying options. But is there not a line where it's like, come on guys. So there are not only so, so the chart that I'm describing is it's, it's, it's market cap versus date launched. And the big boys, the apples, the Nvidias, the, the levered ETFs were launched a while ago and now they're going downstream and the market caps are getting smaller and smaller to the point where you see like levered Rigetti and some of these quantum names. It's like, all right, like. So with that I ask you, is there no limit to what sort of price stream you will turn into income?
- [23:52]
Ben Carlson
Short answer is no, there is a limit, right? I mean as an institutional manager, right, you have to be cognizant of underlying liquidity of that underlying reference asset that you're exposed to. And at some point you're going to max out liquidity. The single stock levered is not something we'd ever play in. We just don't view those as something that ultimately is as beneficial as building more structures, structural long term wealth. But for us, I mean, yes, we're exposed over 12 products right now, from gold to Bitcoin to real estate. And when you think about those, we're still in very broad core building blocks of portfolios. We'll continue to offer more solutions. We filed for an international product. So as investor demand and people want to expose reviews, that's our goal here. It's not a product pitch for us. It's around what's a solution to help you build your overall asset location. But there is going to be a limit to where you can ultimately go in market cap size to make sure you have exposure and tradability. And ultimately that means liquidity in that underlying.
- [24:51]
Garrett Paolella
So no high income on pudgy penguins.
- [24:54]
Ben Carlson
Not from us.
- [24:55]
Michael Batnick
Looking at the obviously the explosion of these strategies, it seems like a lot of it has come this decade and I would imagine the demand is still going to be there, especially since we have so many retiring baby boomers who the income piece is going to be huge for. Right. Again, the psychological hurdle. A lot of people have a much easier time spending that income portion than the principal. Where are we going to go with these strategies? Are there a million other places we could go or is everything just going to be a derivative on a derivative?
- [25:22]
Ben Carlson
Now listen, it's a really good question. I think as Wall street and if you look at anyone who's an ETF issuer, they're going to go anywhere and everywhere they possibly can, right? I mean you've already seen that, right? A 3x levered penguin trade is just that. It doesn't make sense in my book. But ultimately I think for us is there's an adoption, there's an opportunity. I think one of our major competitors, one of the largest ETF issuers in the US or arguably in the world, put out a recent report that $650 billion in option based products should be there by 2030. So I think it's only going to grow. And I think if you think about us in particular, we're the first ones that did this back in 2012. And so before the charts, before the flows, I mean being 99% of every inflow because we're the only products, we view it as more the institutional but solutions based. So we're not going jump into gimmicky things and try to do it on everything. It's going to be on where's your big structural allocations in your portfolio. And for us, I mean, I think that's where it goes. But you're right, we sold yield in a zero interest rate environment. We've sold yield and helped clients get, you know, above average income and now a higher interest rate environment, higher than we've been, you know, from the last 24 months. And so, you know, with that being said, I think you're right. I think there's a huge structural tailwind of people always needing income. And, and one anecdotal thing I could add is when we were doing this over a decade ago, it was 50, 60, 70 year old investors looking for income almost at retirement or in retirement. Now we have a tremendous amount of investors in their 20s looking to generate passive income outside of just their daily job and paycheck. So I think it's only going to continue. Unfortunately, there's going to be plenty of people that throw ridiculous things at the wall. But for us, we'll stick with your core structural institutional allocations in your portfolio that really meant to be wealth building and not, you know, quick trades that unfortunately people might get on the wrong side.
- [27:13]
Garrett Paolella
So Garrett, you've been doing this for over 10 years, but the asset class is really only starting to explode in popularity. I guess it's been a few years now, but it's really, it's hockey sticking. So what things should investors be aware of? What questions should they ask as they seek to evaluate what the best option is for them?
- [27:34]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, this is actually a huge thing we talk about. Not all option strategies are created equal. And the biggest thing I would say is do your homework on what you plan to invest in and make sure it fits Your risk tolerance and understand the product. There's a lot of products out there. We've seen NASDAQ 100 products with 60, 80, 100% yields. It's just not possible. The underlying reference assets not up 60, 80, 100% every year. I think, as you think about it, don't get confused with maybe some just very gross yield that can be kicked off of a product. And ultimately make sure you do your homework to understand what the product does and doesn't do. So you're putting it in your portfolio as a complement to where it should be and it's not used in some incorrect way. That's ultimately you're going to wake up and be like, oh, man, I'm in trouble on that. I thought it was this and it was not at all.
- [28:21]
Michael Batnick
For advisors who haven't really used these solutions in their portfolios, how are you helping them educate their clients in terms of explaining how these things can fit into a portfolio?
- [28:32]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, so we spend a lot of time on advisor education, making sure that the advisor understands it, but also keeps things like, incredibly simple. We also focus on a lot of content, a lot of very simple content for the average investor to understand, and then ultimately working through hypotheticals and saying, hey, give us a proxy of your portfolio. What are you thinking? What are you looking at, allocating towards? And then we'll show you exactly how it's performed based on the live ETF performance and what it's going to do within the portfolio. So education, education, education. And follow the KISS model. Keep it as simple as possible. And then if people want to peel back that onion, you know, we'll go as deep as they want to go. But, but keep it simple, Gary.
- [29:10]
Garrett Paolella
For people that want to learn more about neos, how do we send that? Where do we send them to find some educational materials?
- [29:15]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, best is our website, neosfunds.com we got a ton of information there. Videos, content, and then there's. Those are also ways for people to engage with us and reach out for someone to, to respond to.
- [29:26]
Garrett Paolella
All right, Garrett, appreciate the time.
- [29:27]
Ben Carlson
Yeah, thanks, guys. Appreciate the opportunity.
- [29:31]
Michael Batnick
Okay, thanks to Garrett. Remember, check out NeoSpuns.com to learn more. Email us animalspirits at the compoundnews. Com.