Joe Scales (3:42)

Find out what conversations are happening around the poker table with Table Talk.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (3:54)

Elle and I are back around the

Elle (3:57)

poker table, and I am in festive tornado mode.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (4:02)

Tornado mode and festive mode. I have not seen these two together. I don't think maybe I have.

Elle (4:08)

I think you have. I just might have not put it in those terms. I jokingly tell Joe when I'm getting, like, wound up and running through the house and changing decorations and he's from Kansas, I'm in tornado mode. You know what a tornado is and you know what to do. Get out of my way. Out of the way.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (4:26)

Find a cover.

Elle (4:29)

Correct.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (4:30)

Yeah. You are obviously in festive mode because for those that cannot see her, she is wearing a shirt with a golden retriever with a Santa hat and lights strewn over the dog.

Elle (4:43)

Yeah, they're happy. I'm happy. We're all happy. I hope you're happy.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (4:47)

I am happy.

Elle (4:48)

Okay. Yeah. Last week we left and said we are going to head to a comedian that kicked off the holiday week.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (4:57)

Yeah.

Elle (4:58)

Hilarious.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (4:59)

So funny.

Elle (5:00)

Yeah.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (5:01)

We. I think we mentioned if you haven't checked out Derek's droop, be sure to do so whether it's on YouTube or it's in a venue near you. The Funny Bone in Richmond, Virginia, was a great spot.

Elle (5:14)

It really was easy, like, so easy to just get in, get your seat. People are happy. The drinks keep coming. Like you have a. You have a number and a QR code and a waiter or a waitress, and there's a whole team of them that work together. You don't even know they're there.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (5:30)

Right.

Elle (5:31)

I mean, they've got it down to a science, but it was just easy. Comfortable venue, and he was a riot. And because it's a smaller venue, it's not like these event spaces that you go to, that's like a hockey rink or a theater or. I mean, you fit. What. What do we find out? 400 people in there. I think and you didn't feel like you're in there with 400 people. It was a soundproof box.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (5:53)

Yeah.

Elle (5:53)

Like we were at a mall and had no idea. We were at a mall.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (5:57)

Literally, we're at a mall. Yeah.

Elle (5:58)

And had no idea. And he. He said something that I just can't get out of my brain.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (6:04)

What.

Elle (6:05)

Which is. He's like, does anybody even really know who I am or why you're here?

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (6:10)

That's true.

Elle (6:11)

And I was like, well, of course we do. And he's like, because this form of art people will show up to and they have absolutely no idea what they're getting into.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (6:19)

That's true.

Elle (6:20)

And I'd never thought of it that way.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (6:21)

There are some that you go specifically to see that person, but there are times when you're like, let's just go see some comed.

Elle (6:27)

Yeah. Overall, really glad we did that. It was a lot right after coming back from Vegas to get in the car and travel again. But we made a weekend out of it, had fun, and then come back,

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (6:39)

jumped right into the weird work week.

Elle (6:40)

Yeah. That ends in pie.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (6:43)

True.

Elle (6:44)

I had never heard that saying until this week. One of my co workers put in their little team chat, like, it's a two day work week that ends in pie. How could you not be happy?

Joe Scales (6:54)

Right.

Elle (6:55)

I hope everyone listening has had an enjoyable holiday. Sometimes this is a difficult time of year for people, but we just wanted to send some gratitude out into the world. For those of you that listen. Thank you for listening. For those of you that have found us on YouTube, we are grateful for you tuning in and watching this on YouTube. But I also have found something that's been really helpful for me lately.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (7:20)

Is this the one where you sent me the. The videos of the. The. The animals. The dogs? Yes, yes. What is it called?

Elle (7:29)

It's called the Official Dog Pack.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (7:31)

Okay.

Elle (7:31)

Okay. And the official dog pack is literally Goldie the Golden retriever and Frenchie the black French bulldog. They're podcasters. It's AI. I don't know if it's just AI graphics or if it's AI voices. It truly sounds like people are recording this and then creating the AI from it. I don't know. But listen, it's light, it's funny, but sometimes they cut to, like, the heart of the matter. They are podcasts. They are dogs podcasting their perspective of the world.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (8:06)

Right.

Elle (8:07)

And it is fascinating and heartbreaking and hilarious, and it's just really kept my perspective accountable. And so sometimes this time of year can be really hard. Sometimes it can be really fun. Sometimes there can be unexpected things that come up. And this has just been my little bright spot. So this is not a paid for ad. By any means whatsoever. If you need to pick me up or feel good. Official dog pack.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (8:33)

There you go. I do think it's. I do think that it's just two people talking and then they put the AI graphics on there. And the reason I say that is because what I. The tool that I edit with, I can actually make us into.

Elle (8:47)

Shut up.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (8:48)

Babies or giraffes or gorillas or, you know, whatever.

Elle (8:54)

And now I'm curious. Now I'm curious.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (8:57)

Maybe. Maybe we should create a short one and put it out on. On something socials.

Joe Scales (9:04)

Don't.

Elle (9:04)

Don't promise me something I can't deliver because I really. That would be really fun. Yeah, we gotta do it.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (9:10)

All right, we'll. We'll try that. Maybe not with this particular episode, but.

Elle (9:14)

Okay. Okay, I'm down for that.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (9:17)

Today is officially Black Friday, which started last month. Sure.

Elle (9:21)

Or something. I mean, I'm so over it.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (9:24)

It's not really as special. You're right. No.

Elle (9:27)

Our daughter loves this day.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (9:29)

Yeah.

Elle (9:29)

Loves this day. Has already been out Shop till the drop. Their gym. Even their gym has childcare. And they did a Black Friday special where you could drop your kids off and not be at the gym.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (9:41)

Yeah.

Elle (9:41)

You could just be shopping and drop your kid off. And I thought that was fan freaking tastic number one and two, she and her husband just had a ball.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (9:50)

Yeah, they did shopping today.

Elle (9:52)

And which we're getting ready to shop on this weekend, if you don't already know. Because Black Friday is continuing till Monday.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (9:58)

But they have Cyber Monday. We can just stay at home and. And shop from the convenience of our cap.

Elle (10:04)

That's fine with me. I'm just saying. But we'd be remiss, honestly, if we didn't mention the top four that grabbed our attention. Because we get inundated just like you guys do with text emails. What? You name it. Yeah, the blasts that go out Club WPT Gold and Poker. Go. Have stuff happening today. You've probably already Today only. Seen it. Yeah. Today only. Lexi Gavin Mather has 50% off of her poker accelerator, which is awesome. And I've actually been curious about it too. So thinking I don't know what. Gotta think between today and Monday if I'm gonna do it. But it's 50% off. And then I think you told me about a sneak peek.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (10:43)

Yeah. So octopi poker. It's not available yet. This is just if you go to their website, you're not gonna see it. But December. Almost said October.

Elle (10:53)

Yeah.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (10:53)

December 1st through the 15th. 15th. They're gonna have 20 off everything. Everything. So get on there, use our code, ante up and check out what they have.

Elle (11:07)

Yeah, I think they also have another code that you can add too. And we'll have to check and make sure they stack. But long story short, that's the best one I've seen. It's not a Black Friday or Cyber Monday. It does start on Cyber Monday, though. But it goes for two weeks, which is pretty cool.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (11:20)

That is nice. And then, you know, we've got, like you said, we've got Christmas. But before that is your mom's birthday. Before that's your birthday. Um, and then in January, they've got this casino opening up here in Virginia.

Elle (11:37)

Oh, the live.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (11:38)

Yeah.

Elle (11:38)

Yes. Well, another choice. We still have to drive, but another choice for us to have in our repertoire here. Yeah.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (11:47)

They open up January 22, 2026. Their temporary location. Because they've got to build this.

Elle (11:54)

They're building. So it's just like Caesar's did. Yeah. They'll be operating out of tents and trailers and all the things. They still make it feel like you're in a casino, though.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (12:02)

It does. It's going to be 75,000 square feet just for the gaming area.

Elle (12:08)

That's a lot of sound machines.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (12:10)

Yeah. 900 plus slot machines making noise.

Elle (12:15)

Wow. And now, of course, casinos are always bringing jobs, so they've mentioned 500 at least 500 jobs, 100 dealer positions just for the temporary facility.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (12:26)

Right.

Elle (12:27)

So if you're near that and you're looking for a job opportunity, check them out. But the full resort's going to be huge.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (12:33)

Like 400, almost 500,000 square feet. 445,000.

Elle (12:38)

And are they going to have hotel and restaurants and all that?

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (12:40)

Yeah, 200 room hotel, 1600 slot machines. So a lot. But.

Elle (12:47)

But they're. Poker room. Let's talk poker.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (12:50)

They're gonna have 22 poker. Poker tables.

Elle (12:53)

That's a nice size.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (12:54)

Yeah, it's a good size.

Elle (12:55)

It's a really nice size.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (12:57)

The sports book, you know, 20 dining room or dining areas. So.

Elle (13:02)

And we really enjoyed Maryland Live the way it was set up. I actually really liked. It was a different feel to the movies.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (13:09)

That's not in Baltimore, by the way. Oh, thanks. Just cards. Yes.

Elle (13:14)

I really enjoyed Maryland Live.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (13:16)

Yes.

Elle (13:17)

Is what I will say. So we're looking forward to being able to go up there hopefully by February.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (13:22)

Yeah, that'd be nice.

Elle (13:23)

Check it out.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (13:24)

I mean, it's. It. It's going to draw a lot of people to the region, I think, you know, with more casinos in the area like that, I think it's really starting to be a hub.

Elle (13:38)

Well, there's some good, healthy competition. Yeah, I feel like that helps everybody step up their game a little bit.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (13:44)

Right.

Elle (13:45)

So definitely looking forward to that. There's a lot of poker coming up. A lot of poker coming up. Triton Series is teaming up with WSOP Paradise.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (13:54)

That's right.

Elle (13:54)

So that starts in like, five days, I think. They kick off their event December 4th through December 11th. They're going to be at the Atlantis in the Bahamas, which we did not make it to. We could see it in the beach that we were parked on last October. But the Atlantis resorts are amazing. I've been to the one in Dubai. I actually used to just go there and hang out on the weekends because they had a really nice beach and their food was really good. And they had a Chihuly sculpture.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (14:20)

Did they now?

Elle (14:21)

They did right in the middle. It's still there. But that Triton Series is coming up. Formula one is over.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (14:26)

They're done.

Elle (14:27)

They were done. They. They were three days in and out. So they're out. They were out November 22nd.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (14:33)

Hopefully they got all that stuff torn down quickly and opened up those roads,

Elle (14:39)

and I think it's like a phase in, phase out. Right. But hopefully it'll be for the wpt. I hope it's going to be better for you guys, because we really felt the effects of that.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (14:49)

Yeah.

Elle (14:50)

During our tournament.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (14:51)

So I hope, you know, prime starts when December.

Elle (14:54)

It's around the same time. I think it's December 7th. Their prime championship is on the 7th. World Championship and Ladies Championships start on the 13th, and they wrap everything up on the 19th.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (15:05)

Right.

Elle (15:06)

So check it out if you're around and about. And I cannot say enough about the Women in Poker Festival going to Resorts World. We talked to Lupe about that a little bit while we were in Vegas, December 8 through 12. They're having crazy pineapple. They're having some no limit hold'. Em. They're having. There's a jingle, something. Check it out, ladies. You get to dress. You get to deck out on all your festive gear and hang out. This is not enough. If I'm really gonna go all out, I'm gonna show up to a ladies event. I'm not just going with this. We're gonna step up our.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (15:39)

Got it. Got it.

Elle (15:40)

That's like, go, elf. Yourself, like, get on, get, get your elf hat and your tights and oh, the whole nine. I would definitely be doing that.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (15:49)

Well, there's, I would say, you know, there's. There's always the two types of people. There's the ones that are probably already done shopping. We talked about that a little bit on at Thanksgiving actually.

Elle (16:00)

There were the Amazon prime sales.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (16:02)

Some people were already done shopping.

Elle (16:04)

Yes.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (16:05)

And then there's those that are more last minute, like myself, that like that pressure, you got to get it done kind of thing.

Elle (16:17)

Well, you said something very informative on Thanksgiving Day that I think you should share because this also is very, very similar to how men handle shopping for the holidays as well. I asked you to go to the store because I forgot to get iced tea to take to dinner. And I. This message I get on Thanksgiving Day, before things closed, we got up in the morning and I was like, oh, I forgot to get the tea.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (16:41)

I walked into the grocery store and there was not a woman shopping in that entire store. It was just a bunch of men that looked lost. And they were all on the phone talking to their wife going, what aisle? I don't know what next to.

Elle (16:58)

Somebody even asked you where to find the dip. And you're like, well, what kind of.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (17:03)

He was like, do you know what dip is? And I said, what kind of dip are you looking for? And he just shows me the, the list that it's the. The hell of a good or something like that.

Elle (17:13)

Which Dean's is much better. Anyways. Poor man didn't even know where to go.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (17:17)

He's no clue. And I was like, okay, let's walk down here.

Elle (17:21)

But I'm gonna give that guy the benefit of the doubt. He could have been visiting. And this is a new grocery store I am gonna get.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (17:28)

We don't know all the details for

Elle (17:29)

sure, but I said, what did I say? Back to you? It's officially Thanksgiving.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (17:34)

Yeah.

Elle (17:35)

All the men are at the store getting the last minute things that they've never heard of, but they all like to eat. Yep. That would be Thanksgiving Day. So anyhow, we're extremely grateful for all of you tuning in. We're looking forward to getting festive with you. Continuing our Christmas shopping this weekend. And the release of our Amazon storefront is going to be next week. So look for that in the show description next week.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (18:01)

So hopefully you're not done with all of your Christmas shopping and you can find some things on there.

Elle (18:06)

Well, it's going to be specifically for poker players, so if you haven't Found some things you're still looking for ideas to give to your friends and family. You could just share the list with them and say or this item or that item or whatever. And we're going to put out the things that we use every day. Tried and true stuff like the mat that we, that neoprene mat that we travel with. We take it anywhere, we take it to cabins to play with our family. We've taken it on cruises, we've taken it everywhere. And you immediately have a poker table anywhere you are so.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (18:37)

And it's so nice. It really is actually. That felt on there is, is nicer than a lot of poker tables.

Elle (18:44)

I agree. So anyhow we want to share the wells. We wanted to get that done a week or two ago and just didn't happen. So wanted to follow up and say that was that.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (18:52)

It's coming, it's coming. It is coming to a screen near you.

Elle (18:57)

As always, Joe, it's a pleasure being around the poker table with you.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (19:01)

Likewise.

Joe Scales (19:05)

Now it's time for Call the Floor with Elliot Schechter.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (19:13)

Elliot Schechter joins us each week to say how he would rule on situations that come up in your game games. And he's with us again this week. Elliot, how are you?

Joe Scales (19:21)

I'm doing pretty well, thanks. Things are good. How you doing today, Joe?

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (19:25)

I'm good. I noticed you're, you're sporting the, the Annie up wear there.

Joe Scales (19:29)

Absolutely.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (19:30)

I like it.

Joe Scales (19:31)

Thank you. Me too.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (19:33)

And if anyone wants some ante up gear then go to our shop on, on anteupmagazine.com so there you go. There's the plug.

Joe Scales (19:42)

Glad to hear.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (19:43)

Yeah, we've got, we've got to call the floor this week. That's sent in by David Musselwhite and the setup is pretty long. So if you have some points in here that you want to throw in along the way, just interrupt and we'll throw them in there as we go. But David is playing one, three, no limit hold'.

Joe Scales (20:04)

Em.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (20:04)

He's eight handed, made it to the river. Heads up. The players in seat one and seat eight are heads up in the hand. Now the player in seat 8 is wearing earbuds in both of his ears. The river brought in the flush draw and it paired the board. Seat 1 bets, seat 8 raises, seat 1 tanks, then tells the dealer 100 on top. He doesn't say whether he put more in there, more chips in there if he just said it. But I'm assuming he put something, something in there and now it's Back on seat eight, who takes out his earbuds, asks the dealer, what's going on. The dealer tells him that seat one has raised it another hundred. Seat eight then puts his earbuds back in and tanks for a bit. Eventually, he mumbles something. I'm in seat three and didn't hear what he said. The dealer announces, fold. But seat eight just kind of sits there holding his cards, and the dealer motions for him to muck his hand. Seat 8 finally flips his hand over and tables it, showing the ace high flush. The dealer then picks up seat eight's hand, mucks it, and then begins pushing the pot to seat one.

Joe Scales (21:33)

All right, before you say another word, the dealer motioning to the player in seat 8 couldn't be signifying to the player in seat 8 that the action is over. It's your turn to show. What do you want to do? It's up to you.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (21:46)

Right.

Joe Scales (21:49)

I can see that happening. So the pot getting pushed here. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense just yet, especially after Seat 8 tabled his hand.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (22:03)

Right. And it makes sense from here why there's the confusion. Yeah, because he says, here's where the drama starts. Seat one and seat two both look surprised.

Joe Scales (22:17)

And this is where the plorties are called, as the pot hasn't been fully pushed yet.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (22:21)

Yes.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (22:22)

Yes.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (22:24)

C1 says to seat two, I can't believe that he folded the nut flush. Meanwhile, seat 8 asks the dealer what seat 1 had. The dealer says, he didn't show. And of course Seat 8 asks, then why are you giving him the pot? The dealer says, you folded. He doesn't have to show. To which seat eight yells, I didn't fold. I called. And you took my hand and mucked it. The dealer says, I heard you say fold. Seat 8 argues, no, I said call. And that's when the dealer calls the floor.

Joe Scales (23:03)

Better late than never.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (23:04)

The floor comes over. Well, yeah. The floor comes over and the dealer explains the situation, tries to get one of the players at the table to say they also heard C8 say fold. The player in seat four says he heard seat eight call, of course, me in seat three. So seat three and the player in seat five both say, we didn't hear him. Seat two said he thought seat eight folded because he never made a calling motion.

Joe Scales (23:36)

I don't know what a calling motion.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (23:37)

Not sure what that is. The floor decides that this was above his. Above his pay grade and went to get a senior, more senior floor.

Joe Scales (23:49)

Sounds like a good idea.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (23:51)

Yeah. The second floor goes to the Camera and comes back a couple of minutes later. He says seat eight was the aggressor. And since he tabled his hand, it's clear he was wanting to call. So he wins the pot. Now seat one is upset.

Elle (24:12)

Sure.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (24:13)

He says his face has turned red and he's shouting. But the dealer said he folded. Okay, now what?

Joe Scales (24:22)

The dealer's not allowed to make mistakes ever. The dealer's infallible. What the dealer says goes. That doesn't make sense to me at all either.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (24:30)

Right. And seat one apparently admitted at some point to having a flush, so he

Joe Scales (24:36)

would have lost the losing hand.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (24:40)

Yeah, so he says. At this point, there's a crowd starting to gather, including seat one's girlfriend, who is putting in her two cents even though she is not even. She wasn't even near the table.

Joe Scales (24:54)

From the rail,

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (24:59)

C2 suggests that they just chop the pot. To be fair, I'm.

Joe Scales (25:04)

This is not C2's business

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (25:07)

right now. A third floor comes over unless the second floor leave because, you know, apparently he's getting pretty heated.

Joe Scales (25:16)

Sounds like a really big one with seat one.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (25:19)

Yeah, they've got numerous floors for sure. Working this, the third floor decides to chop the pot. Okay, I love. I love that reaction. Both seat one and seat eight rack up their chips and leave in a huff. Seat 8 tells the dealer, I blame you. This is your fault. Which the dealer graciously accepts blame.

Joe Scales (25:44)

It's not 100% his fault, right? Not even close.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (25:48)

So David says, my personal thoughts are that clearly seat one had the losing hand, since his whole argument was that the dealer said seat eight folds.

Joe Scales (26:01)

That is correct.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (26:02)

Action should not let him win a pot he had no right to.

Joe Scales (26:05)

Well, I think by action he means other people's actions or mistakes.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (26:10)

Right, Right. I also feel that Seat 8 putting his headphones back in while on the river in a big spot was unwise. Ah, I would think you would want to hear everything.

Joe Scales (26:21)

Yes. Now we're getting to one of the running themes on call the floor is protect your hand and pay attention and don't do stupid stuff while you're in the hand. So Cdade is guilty of a number of these things.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (26:33)

Exactly. He does say chopping the pot felt wrong, but I understand just wanting to calm everything down. But at the same time, that rewards seat one for making a scene.

Joe Scales (26:45)

Well, not just that.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (26:46)

Can't wait to hear. Yeah, that's true. He says, can't wait to hear your thoughts on the matter.

Joe Scales (26:51)

So this is a long post, so I'll have a few thoughts. I'll work my way backwards. Chopping the pot can only be a suggestion on the part of the operator, the floor, the person making the decision that money doesn't belong to the casino in any way, that money belongs to the players. We can suggest chopping to the pot, but when we make a decision, we have to make a definitive decision. We have to actually decide. We can't just punt all the time. This is not a court of law. This is a hand of poker. And we have to do something. We have to actually decide. Yeah, chopping the pot here is maybe not the worst suggestion. But we can't just dictate and demand that the pot be chopped. We're not in the game. We merely collect payment for the providing of the game. Big difference. So while we're relied upon for expertise and fairness, we can't make a decision that literally divides up people's money. That's the opposite of what we should do. So then we have to go back a little bit further and to the result. Let's go to the end of the hand when Seat 8 didn't know what was happening and very correctly removed their headphones and asked. Well done. It then occurs to this player to immediately replace their their earbuds and go on as if everything's hunky dory when that's not a great assumption.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (28:32)

Apparently not.

Joe Scales (28:33)

I'm not a big fan of rewarding people for not paying attention and not protecting themselves, but apparently seat one didn't really have much of a claim on this pot. Seat 8 obviously thought they were intelligible when they were not. Obviously thought that they're stopping and asking what was going on was enough to protect themselves. When they really only made it halfway across the road, they pressed the button to activate the crosswalk. They got into the crosswalk and then when it started blinking red instead of hurrying up to the other side, they decided to just wait. So not particularly effective there. And I don't like rewarding players for for not paying attention. But more than that, I, I like the best hand at the showdown to get the money right. There's no definitive proof that this player decided to fold to that raise, even though with the board pairing it's not out of the realm of possibility. Although in a 1, 3 game it certainly incredibly uncommon at best. I'm not awarding seat one the pot based on the technicality of the dealer announcing fold and taking Seat 8's cards. While Seat 8 was obviously incredulous and rather shocked, the dealers, unable to discern what was happening, should have been the time to stop the game and say, what are you doing? If they thought they were folding and then they started pushing pots, T. D immediately spoke up and said, what are you doing? That's the time to call the floor right there. Not to wait a few seconds or a few minutes or however moments it took to actually get to that point. Yeah, these are some of the worst judgment calls we've got to make. As floors, as operators, as poker room managers, they're never easy. And again, it's what we're paid to do. We've got to make a judgment call. The judgment is just not to have no action. If we let every dealer error decide the outcome of a pot, well, then, number one, players would obviously not be thrilled knowing that they were not in control of their destiny, when that's exactly what you play poker for. But number two, and I had this discussion with one of my colleagues just recently about similar but not identical situation in which a dealer error would lead to either no action or splitting of a pot. And I, I made the point, which he didn't refute, that if we allow ourselves to base our outcomes on a dealer mistake, so say we actually miss dealing, given the money back, which is virtually identical to splitting the pot, then it occurs to me that a lot of dealers and, and I'm not trying to disparage my colleagues and, and dealers in the industry, but as dealers keep their own tips and they're definitely motivated by generating income in every possible moment they're dealing, it would occur to me that dealers would make mistakes in pots where the only players who are going to win are players that do not tip them, therefore negating the outcome, putting the money back and starting a new ham where they have a much better probability of getting a tip. That opportunity should not be allowed, it should not be possible, and should not be affected and made real by our decisions.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (32:02)

I guess the thing that bothers me with seat 8 is, and this is probably what the person was saying about calling action, throw a chip in, like call, throw a chip in. And then you obviously were making your intention clear. Well, and I mean, you might have wanted to raise, but you definitely are putting money in.

Joe Scales (32:32)

And C8 is under the impression that they said call clearly enough that they didn't need to move a chip which is not 100% correct in any spot. You should always move some or all chips forward when calling a bet. Verbal action in turn is binding, but when it's unverifiable, you're in a whole mess of things. And many things like this can happen. So, yes, CD did not fully protect their hand, did not fully protect their place in the betting order, was not paying attention, and obviously did not make their intentions clear. So, yeah, CD 8 shoulders some blame here. That doesn't mean sure. That they lose their claim on the pot.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (33:17)

Right.

Joe Scales (33:19)

We don't have to allow technicalities. Once again, this is not a court of law. This is poker. And when all is said and done, when the action is over, the best hand still supposed to get the money. Now, if there's a bet and no call, which aid which seat one is trying to prove, then yeah, well, all is said and done. We're not entirely clear on that here. And if this continues to happen every single time seat 8 is in the pot, the seat 8 is going to lose both the benefit of the doubt and likely the ability to play in the game. But in this instance, I'm not moving the pot away from C8. It's still, while not an outcome that thoroughly agrees with my views on player behavior and player comportment is still the best possible outcome in these circumstances.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (34:11)

Yeah, we've talked about that numerous times where we want that we want the person that actually had the best hand to get the the pot. It sounds like seat one admitted at some point that he had a flush, which means if you had the flush, you had a lesser flush because he had the nut flush. A seat eight did. So, you know, if he wouldn't have admitted that he had a flush there, then we don't know because.

Joe Scales (34:44)

And I'm not so sure about that. I'll leave that to the other contributors who actually delve into the playing in contents of hands to weigh in on that. But even without knowing the contents of that particular hand, it still seems fairly obvious from the narrative that they were trying to use the rules of the game to win the pot as opposed to, you know, the betting and showing of hands to win the pot, which is not the way the game is supposed to come to the players. Yeah, unless there's no other way to make a ruling, I'm not going to use the technical rules to award chips.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (35:20)

I don't think that's ever going to be a good argument to get the pot. But at the same time, you know, if there's a situation where you just don't know what seat one has, because before, because you handed your cards off as the dealer was pushing the pot to you, well, now it's like, well, my cards are somewhere in that deck. And now you can't just say, well, dig My cards out, because obviously that's not going to be acceptable either, so.

Joe Scales (35:51)

Shouldn't be.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (35:51)

It's a mess. The whole thing is a mess. And everybody contributed. Everybody contributed. Seat 8 contributed in the dealer.

Joe Scales (36:02)

Yes, it was shared, that's for sure.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (36:05)

Yeah. And then to make matters worse, the floor, they had three people come over and none of them seemed to take control for. For sure.

Joe Scales (36:20)

Well, second floor guy tried to make a decision, but once they appeal, then he granted the appeal. We were in trouble. Seat one punted. I mean, floor one punted. Floor one said, I got no way to solve this. I'm getting somebody else. See, the second floor guy made a decision, and at some point they didn't accept it, and he brought a third guy. It's like most rule sets expressly state that the floor person's decision is final and binding. This is not a court of law where there are one or more appeals available if the result is not liked or desired. They made a decision. They absolutely made a decision. And they didn't just pull it out of a. Out of a hat. They went to surveillance and watched the footage of the hand. They relied on not only player, player statements and the dealer statement and whatever the first floor observed, but they went through surveillance for confirmation and mulled this over. It should have ended there. I appreciate the fact that if an egregious error is made, you want to appeal and. And sometimes you have to. You have to jump up and down. You have to make sure that nothing happens until somebody makes a fair ruling. How do you prove that the second guy, the second floor, who absolutely made a ruling after checking surveillance, how do you know that was unfair? They weighed as much evidence as possible and made a final ruling. It should have been final right there.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (37:56)

Right.

Joe Scales (37:56)

I mean, if it's egregiously incorrect in the whole table is just about unanimous in and disliking the decision and disagreeing with it, that's one thing. But here we had players next to each other, seats three and four, who couldn't even agree on what the hell was going on. The floor stepped in to make the decision, as is their job. At some point you got to accept it. And at some point, as the floor. Now I'm speaking to my colleagues. You got to put your foot down and say, this decision has been made. If you need to discuss this further, let's get off the table and have a discussion. But we're done.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (38:35)

Yeah. And I like what to kind of bring it full circle. I like what you were saying at the very. Your Very first point, you, as the floor, cannot actually chop the pot. You can suggest that that is what we do, but in this kind of a situation, you have to make a definitive decision. So that I feel like chopping the pot thing was kind of a cop out to some degree.

Joe Scales (39:08)

It's exactly what I was trying to

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (39:10)

appease everyone, and you can't. And by trying to appease everyone, you appeased no one. You made everyone angry.

Joe Scales (39:19)

You lost. Yeah, you lost one fourth of the game. You literally lost 25 of your seated players because of this decision. Not to mention the amount of hands you lost not healing because you were waiting to make this decision. So, yeah, chopping the pot here didn't help you. Again, if you, if you, if you move the pot in one direction or the other, you're losing very likely one player or the other, which is one entire player less than the amount of players you lost. It is 50% less players you lost and 50% less players dissatisfied and hopefully coming back. So, yeah, again, you got to make a decision, you got to stick to it, you got to explain it. You got to be fair about it. That doesn't mean you can't offer, number one, a chance for them to be heard and number two, other forms of remuneration. I mean, whether you come to a dinner or a hotel room or something, some way to show appreciation. But yeah, you gotta make a decision and you gotta sometimes hang out for dear life.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (40:30)

Yeah. Well, David, when you sent this in, you said here was a big one. And you're right. This. This was a big one. There was, there was a lot of blame to be handed out in this one. And it doesn't sound like we ended up with the right answer either.

Joe Scales (40:49)

This is unfortunate. So we did have an Oprah level distribution of blame. You get some blame and you get some blame and you get some blame. Yeah, it was pretty impressive.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (40:59)

Yeah. But I appreciate you sending that in. And if anyone has a call to floor that they would like to know how Elliott would rule, send it to podcastnetmagazine.com Elliot, thanks again for the insight.

Joe Scales (41:12)

You're welcome. This was a good one.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (41:14)

Thanks. Yeah. And we'll see you next week.

Joe Scales (41:16)

Look forward to it. Let's break it down with Hand of the Week.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (41:36)

Welcome to Hand of the Week, where Patrick, our resident fish and I dive into listener submitted hands each week. We tackle everything from questionable bluffs to hero calls and the hands that make you scratch your head. Whether you're looking for strategy tips or you just want to see if you would have played it any better. We've got you covered, Patrick. It's Thanksgiving week.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (41:58)

It is here, my friend. Holiday season's here. It's getting cold again. Football is great.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (42:04)

Yeah, well, I.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (42:06)

Well, for some of us in the afp, it's really good again, although we may have just lost the best, you know, one of the best offensive tackles in all of football and Will Campbell.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (42:18)

Yeah, well, we are actually recording this way earlier than normal because, you know, we. We have Thursday for Thanksgiving. Friday will be actually getting the podcast out, and you never know what schedule is going to look like there. Are you planning on shopping Black Friday?

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (42:36)

Absolutely not. If there is anything that wants to be done on the. On the Internet for. What do they call it? Cyber Monday?

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (42:45)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (42:45)

I think I have. So I have an itinerary for Thursday through Monday, and the only thing that I set of the itinerary myself is actually cooking. We're. We're hosting family for Thanksgiving, so I'm in charge of the itinerary, but the shopping itinerary that I have been told is from my wife and family, and I am not involved in any of that. I just am on kid duty, which is a. Okay by me. So there's. Yeah, there will be no shopping on Black Friday for me. Never has, never will. I think everyone that does that come. I commend you, but that's just not my jam. Cyber Monday is great. Throw some deals in, you know, catch some Christmas presents, but give me football, and there's some great matchups. I mean, listen, if there's anybody in the greater Michigan area that's a Detroit fan, I. I want to. You know, listen, I applaud you guys for being fans for years, because I remember as a kid growing up, it was.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (43:35)

It was bad.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (43:36)

It was like, hey, there's another football game on. But they were, you know, they'd put up seven points and they lose every single year. And now it's great. I mean, what a. What a matchup that's coming this Thursday.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (43:48)

Yeah, I mean, there was. There was some. There were some years in there with Barry Sanders.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (43:52)

Correct, Correct.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (43:54)

They had their. Their time. Yeah, they weren't great, but they were good. And, you know, Megatron, and I was

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (44:02)

just gonna say, I'm not trying to age you by any means, Joe, but Barry Sanders was like, right as I was, you know, coming into this world.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (44:10)

So we've got a hand.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (44:13)

But Megatron, you're speaking my language. That was definitely my. My area. Yes, there is true that they've had some. They've had some years, but it's a lot of fun now. So. Yeah, a lot of, a lot of family, a lot of, a lot of food. A lot of football can be fun.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (44:26)

I, I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go one step further aging myself. I got to play catch with Barry Sanders when he was at Oklahoma State.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (44:36)

Wow, I like that. So that might have been one of the last times. They were really good, too. Prior to to Gundy was when Barry Sanders was there. Poor Oklahoma State.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (44:46)

Gracie Anders was there, and Thurman Thomas was there right before him.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (44:49)

Listen, this is, this is not a hockey, baseball, football podcast, but, you know, we like to, you know, throw sports around. Yeah, college football. Very quick. All hail everyone in Blacksburg to bring in James Franklin. For all your Penn State alumni, I feel for you. Good luck trying to find a coach. I understand he couldn't beat Ohio State and Oregon, but guess what? He can win some football games in the acc. And I can't wait for next year. It's going to be freaking awesome.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (45:16)

Tbd.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (45:16)

Tbd.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (45:18)

In the meantime, let's get into some poker.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (45:20)

Sounds good to me.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (45:22)

We have a hand of the week that's sent in by Mark Brown.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (45:26)

All right?

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (45:26)

And Mark says this hand had him questioning every poker book written since 2004.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (45:36)

What a great entrance that is. All right, Mark and I wait.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (45:42)

He says, here's the scenario. He's playing a tournament. Come blinds are 1000, 2000 with a 2000 big blind ante. Mark says he has about 53,000 in his stack. And he's on the button in this hand with the nine of clubs, nine of diamonds. Action folds to middle position. And Mark describes the middle position player as a competent but definitely capable of spewing chips when tilted. So we'll see if that comes into play.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (46:21)

Joe, would you consider me competent? Because the second part, I can definitely spew some chips when tilted. I'd like to consider myself at this point, decently competent. So.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (46:32)

Okay, and so you, Are you saying you think Mark might be playing against you?

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (46:36)

I mean, I wasn't playing a 1000, 2000 tournament, but definitely sounds very, very like me. So you know what? Maybe with some inside knowledge, because it is me, I can help win this. We'll see.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (46:47)

Okay, Fair enough. Fair enough. Well, this middle position, competent, yet capable of spewing. Middle position player opens to 4,500.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (47:00)

Okay.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (47:01)

And it folds to us on the button with those pocket nines. Nine of clubs, nine of diamonds.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (47:07)

Okay, now Mark didn't say anything about him already Being on tilt.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (47:12)

Correct, Correct.

Joe Scales (47:14)

He did not say that.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (47:16)

Well, if we're not taking them on, on, he kind of tilt at this point from middle position with that. I mean, that's a decent, you know, it's, it's not a big raise, but it's, you know, hey, I've got something, you know, we're gonna pay to play. I mean, NS are great. You're on the button. I, I, I'm coming over the top, I think.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (47:34)

Okay.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (47:34)

And I'm probably just going to double them up. I've got, you know, 9,000 in my head.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (47:39)

Okay.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (47:41)

You're going higher, aren't you?

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (47:42)

I was going a lot higher. Like double me, like 18. Yeah. 18,000.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (47:47)

Okay. Why?

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (47:50)

I don't know that 9,000 accomplishes anything because you're, you're doubling his bet. He's going to call.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (47:59)

He's going to for sure.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (48:01)

So are we getting any information from him? Whereas if we make it 18, we kind of can narrow that range down a little bit. You know, if he, if he bet 4,500 with Jack 10 offsuit, then maybe 18,000, he thinks twice about it. So.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (48:20)

Yeah, you're absolutely right.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (48:23)

Mark says with about 26 big blinds, I wasn't sure what the best play is. A jam feels too big. Calling invites players to squeeze. And a general three bet invites all the chips to get into the middle. I kind of hated every option, but ended up going with a small 3 bet, making it 11,000. So just a little bit over you.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (48:53)

Yeah, but he's right. Mindset wise. I mean, it is, you know, if you go any higher, you're probably committing yourself no matter what. If you're going too low, then you don't like it either. It's kind of a weird, you're in a weird spot there. I'll give him, I'll give Mark that. So he goes 11.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (49:09)

Yeah. And the blinds fold. Okay, well, that's middle position. Thinks, then calls.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (49:16)

I can't get that to play any better. Out a little bit of pot control. Everyone else folds. You don't learn a ton.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (49:22)

But 11, 11's not a bad bet though.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (49:26)

Yeah.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (49:28)

Puts the pot in about 27,000. The flop comes out. The queen of spades, seven of clubs, four of hearts. Mark says, not great, not terrible. And the middle position player checks pot control as well.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (49:52)

I think I check.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (49:58)

Go ahead.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (49:59)

The only other thought would. Yes, you were the aggressor. We talk about it all the time.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (50:05)

Keep being that guy, right?

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (50:07)

Yeah. And, and I'm, I guess I'm Putting myself in his shoes real quick as middle position, I come in with a pretty, you know, it's an okay size bet, 4, 500, you know, then, you know, the, the button comes over top of me. I'm going to check here and learn where he's at. So in that case, maybe we should continue to tell the story that we're ahead.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (50:27)

Yeah, I, I think that we can definitely represent ace, queen, king, queen, queen, jack.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (50:36)

Yep.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (50:36)

We also could represent all of those pairs, even, even Jax as pairs. Even though the queen's out there, it's literally one card, one over card to our nines.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (50:51)

Yeah.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (50:53)

So I'm, I'm definitely firing a, a continuation bet. Probably come down a little bit in the 8 to 10 range.

Joe Scales (51:02)

Yeah.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (51:03)

So maybe call it middle and say 9,000.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (51:05)

Yeah, I had in that, that 7 to 10 range as well, you know, higher, lower orders, everywhere you wanted to go, so. All right.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (51:13)

Mark says, I wasn't sure if betting small was good or if I should pot control and check. I bet 6,500, basically a third kind of. Because I didn't know what else to do.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (51:31)

I love it.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (51:34)

Well, maybe the middle position player kind of got a read on you and felt that because he. Check. Raises to 18,000. Now things get a little uncomfortable. We've got 35,000 behind, I think. So what do we, what do we do with that?

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (51:53)

Before you even go anywhere, if you go higher there, closer to 10, do you think you catch a check raise? I mean, maybe only time will tell and see how the rest of this plays out, but I don't know. That's interesting.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (52:06)

I mean, possibly. I don't think they're doing that with sets. Not yet.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (52:14)

No. Because they want to get more value out of it, right?

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (52:17)

Yeah, maybe. Maybe they're the ones with a good queen.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (52:20)

Yeah. Suited, maybe. King, queen suited. Queen, jack suited. All right. I mean, only one over card. I think I'm calling another street.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (52:33)

Yeah.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (52:34)

Very reluctantly, if you can't tell by my tone.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (52:37)

I don't know. I mean, I think I can let it go here too.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (52:40)

I have.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (52:41)

We don't really have. We don't really have a lot of equity that we need here. Pocket nines are still just looking for another nine if they have a queen. I mean, if they have a seven, then okay, but are they check raising us with a 7 only to get

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (53:00)

us to run away now? And if so, then good for you. Yeah, I have. I mean, I can see that I still may be calling one more street and then letting it go. We'll see how it goes. But yeah, I think it's about half our stack.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (53:16)

I'm going to save that 35 ish K and try to run it up later. We still have some fold equity that way in later hands, so I'll let it go. You're going to make the call? Mark says, I felt like folding was too nitty. I think this is the second time in like two weeks that I've been. My decision has been called nitty.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (53:43)

You said it, not me.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (53:47)

He says. But calling leaves me in no man's land. Exactly. And jamming feels like a spew. Unless he's bluffing. After tanking, Mark calls and says this is likely the biggest debatable decision of the hand. Okay.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (54:08)

Okay.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (54:09)

Pot is now 63,000. Mark's only got 24k behind, which is what since he was doing it in big blinds. That's 12 big blinds. And the turn is the two of diamonds. Now middle position checks which is really odd.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (54:34)

Check. You're. I mean go. Give me, give me a free. Free turn or free river. I'm on. If you bet here, I can tell I don't. Again, we read this as we go. So we don't know what's going to happen next. But if Mark decides to bet, I guarantee middle position shoves. Give me a free streak. What story are you telling now? You bet small. Well, not small, but a third smaller. And you got raised. You're gonna get raised again.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (55:04)

And what if we shove?

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (55:08)

I think you're donating. Well, I think you're donating chips that you don't need to donate yet.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (55:14)

When middle position check raises the flop and then checks the turn when I mean we don't.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (55:20)

So what are they chasing?

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (55:21)

I'm left.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (55:23)

What do they got?

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (55:24)

Seven. Never a monster.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (55:25)

What are they? Ace, seven suited. Like what are they?

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (55:30)

I feel like it's a give up because they're scared with it could be queen, small card. Like maybe Queen 10. I guess. I think our best play here. The only way we win this and is to shove here. Oh. I think we pick up the pot some percentage of the time. If we check here, it allows them to play the river perfectly because if they miss the river, they check. Maybe we win small. Or they hit the river and they shove and we have to fold or call in. Call all of our chips drawing dead right.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (56:14)

Yeah.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (56:15)

So I think if we want to win this hand, the only way to do it is to shove here. If we, if we're looking to. If we're, if we're. Looking to save chips. We should have done that earlier.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (56:27)

Fair. I agree with you. I think you're here now. My. The only thought is I can see one more street for free. If it's a nine, I'm coming over the top. If he bets or I'm shoving either way or I'm folding. So I get to see. I get to see one more street and catching on for free, which is a very low percentage as well. But it's probably the similar percentage that we take this hand down with a shove now.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (56:54)

And if you shove and a nine comes, you still win the money.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (56:57)

That's a good point. That's a good call. Okay, so maybe that takes a few percentage points off to shove now to take it down.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (57:06)

Mark says when he checked now, I had no idea what to make of it. Is he trapping? Is he giving up? Setting me up to jam into a monster? He says I froze and end up checking back. So there is still 63,000 in the pot, and the river is the four of clubs. So we've got the queen of spades,

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (57:38)

seven of clubs, four of hearts, two of diamonds, four clubs.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (57:46)

So we did. We paired the board.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (57:48)

Paired the board.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (57:50)

Queen is still the only over card. And now middle position rips it all in.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (57:57)

Yeah, you kind of figure fold, just like I said. You fold it.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (58:05)

Yeah.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (58:06)

And I. And I. And I wasted. I wasted some chips there to get to that point. But chasing down one of the two knots that are left.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (58:17)

Yeah, I feel like it's gotta be a fold when. When. When middle position, check, raises the flop, checks the turn, and then jams the river on a paired board, it's gonna be a strong value hand. I. I don't see a lot of bluffs here for sure. So got a fold there. Mark writes, this felt so weird. Why is he check raising, flop shutting down on the turn with me short stack, then jamming the river. Nothing made sense. I convinced myself he had 5, 6 of hearts or something dumb.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (58:59)

I like that.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (59:01)

After thinking through the whole process, Mark calls. And the villain turns over the ace of spades. Queen of diamonds for top pair, top kicker. Mark shows his nines and is out. So Mark closes with. Did I make multiple mistakes? Did villain butcher this hand, too? It felt like a hand where neither one of us had a plan.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (59:29)

I would agree with the last statement and answer the question before yes. I think we both. You guys both did and me included. I. All right. Knowing what we know now, Joe.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (59:41)

Yeah.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (59:41)

Top paired. Top kicker. Not a paired board at the time. And he checks the turn and you shove. Do you catch a fold?

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (59:54)

Probably not.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (59:55)

I don't think so either. I think it's a really low percentage. I think, I think the two, I think the two mistakes. One, I, I don't love the call at all on the river there. I, I, nothing about that felt good. I'm sure it didn't feel good for Mark in the moment either, else he wouldn't be writing us. But I think after, I think the bad, after the flop, when he comes back when he checked, raise us. I think you fold when, when you would have. And I have a big enough man to admit you're right every once in a while, Joe, and you're right on this one. Those are your two mistakes. In my, in my humble opinion, fold it. Then when he comes back over, you're on the top. Fold it down. Good for you. And definitely, if you make it all the way to the river, don't, don't, don't call there.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (60:41)

Yeah. I will say, I guess the good news is that all of the mistakes made in this hand were not yours.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (60:49)

Valid. And that's the other part of that statement, is that that guy did not play well either.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (60:55)

I feel like, Mark, I feel like you played the whole hand like you were trying to avoid making the wrong move instead of leaning into the right move.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (61:04)

Man. Does that feel very, very oddly familiar.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (61:10)

I would say pre flop, you didn't seem to have a plan, which you kind of admitted on the flop calling was probably the worst of all of the options there. You know, if you're not calling, then, I mean, if you're not folding, then why are we just putting in a call?

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (61:34)

Yeah.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (61:35)

You know, the fold is probably the best one, but if you're not folding, then maybe at least say, I, I'm short anyway. Let's put it all in. Then on the turn, when our opponent was just giving up, it felt like then, I mean, we could definitely put a bet in there. Although to your point, I don't know that we get a fold, but if we're putting the money in on the river, we might as well put it in there and at least take the chance of them folding.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (62:06)

If you're, if you even have the thought of committing the rest of this, you, you're, you're stacked to this. Do it then. At least make them think about it.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (62:15)

Yeah. So I think the biggest takeaway here is if you're going to three bet. What. What did he say? 26 big blinds.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (62:28)

Yeah.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (62:28)

If you're going to three bet there, you need to have a plan. If you aren't going to have a plan, don't three bet. Yeah, I think that's, that's the takeaway that I would have for this hand.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (62:39)

Easier said than done, Mark, but he's absolutely right. Yeah. Going into it, especially when you're ready to, you know, rip that in, then have the plan afterwards.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (62:47)

Yeah. But thanks for sending that in. It is a good discussion when and leads us to that takeaway, you know, that we all need to reminder of sometimes. Yeah, we all need to make sure that we're thinking further ahead than just one street, you know, what's our plan throughout the hand? If they do this, then what are we going to do? If they do that, what's our response?

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (63:13)

So it's like situational baseball.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (63:16)

That's right.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (63:17)

For all your baseball fans out there. Yeah, absolutely.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (63:21)

Yeah. But thanks for sending that in. If anyone has a hand of the week that they would like to know how Patrick and I would break it down, send it to podcast@anyup magazine.com. i hope everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving. And Patrick, let's do it again next week.

Guest or additional co-host (possibly Mark or another contributor) (63:37)

Sounds like a plan. I'll be here.

Joe Scales (63:41)

It's time for Joe's one outer.

Co-host (possibly Patrick) (63:48)

This week, I want to talk about what I'm thankful for in poker. And I don't mean just the obvious stuff, though I am thankful for winning hands and dealers who actually enforce the rules and opponents who don't suddenly find Jesus on the river when I'm sitting on the turn with the nuts. What I'm talking about is a little bit deeper than that. I'm thankful for the people, because poker gets tagged as this individual lone wolf kind of game. But somehow it's given me another family. From the A team to the players I meet at every tour stop, to the characters who sit down at my table and give me stories that generally end up on this podcast. You're all the reason this thing has legs. Sometimes those legs are a little shaky, but they're still moving. And I'm thankful for the conversations, the ones at the table where complete strangers turn into old buddies debating whether a hot dog is a sandwich or what the worst slow roll in history was, or how in the world someone can call three streets with bottom pair and still sleep peacefully at night. And I'm thankful for the lessons poker teaches, the ones you don't realize you're learning until life hits you with the same situation. Patience, emotional control, knowing when to fold something you really want to play, knowing how to go all in and maybe the most important to me is learning how to look calm while absolutely melting down inside. It really is a useful skill. I'm thankful for the stories poker gives us. Stories from the old timers who have seen it all, the new players trying to figure it out, and the crushers who make us sit back and say, yep, I'm definitely not as good as I thought I was. It's a game built on characters, and I'm grateful every day that I get to share those stories with all of you. Which brings me back full circle here to I'm thankful for what poker gave me these past few years. Experiences. From the crews to the championships to the conversations with champions, grinders, dream chasers and everyday players who just love this ridiculous, beautiful game. Poker has given me a community, a career, friendships I didn't expect, and a whole lot of memories I wouldn't trade for anything. So as I wrap up another episode, I just want to say thank you to poker, to the people who play it, and to the A team that show up every week to be a part of this thing. Because at the end of the day, as I've said before, poker is more than cards, chips and bad decisions disguised as hero calls. It's a reminder that luck changes, life changes, but the table's always there, waiting for the next hand. That's today's one outer and that's today's show. I'll see you next week 18. And until then, I'll see you at the tables.

Joe Scales (67:34)

The Ante Up Podcast is a production of Antiopmagazine.com. contact the show at podcastsyupmagazine.com or call the show at 540-339-7741. If you'd like to advertise, send an email to editorneupmagazine.com. Carvana is so easy. Just a click and we've got ourselves a car.

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