Chapter 3 Ep. 48 Poker Lessons On and Off the Felt

Summary

Ante Up Poker Magazine Podcast

Chapter 3, Episode 48: Poker Lessons On and Off the Felt

Host: Joe Scales
Date: December 12, 2025

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Episode Overview

This lively episode of the Ante Up Poker Magazine podcast, helmed by Joe Scales, dives deeply into the worlds of both strategy and community, delivering poker wisdom for “everyday players.” Highlights include a Table Talk segment with Arizona’s Michelle and Molly about charitable events and tournament action, a rules deep-dive with floor pro Elliot Schechter, and a thought-provoking Hand of the Week breakdown with resident “fish” Patrick. The show concludes with Joe’s One Outer segment, relating poker lessons to life’s priorities.

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Main Segments and Key Insights

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1. Table Talk: Arizona Poker Community & Events

[02:37–21:53]

Fall Series Success & Upcoming Promotions

• Michelle & Molly join Joe and Elle to discuss recent successes, including:
  • Fall Series: $1,500 opener drew 223 players, $78K to first; Seniors event pulled 665 entries, awarding $55,900 up top.
    • Molly [03:08]: “We ended up with about 665 of those players and first place was 55, 9. So it really turned out nice.”
  • Community Charity Drive: 418 toys and $6,100 in donations raised through a tournament.
    • Michelle [04:12]: “It’s so fun every year, like to see all the different toys and know that it’s going to a worthy cause...”

December Events

• Cash Promotions: High hands every Sunday from 10am, with $1,000 prizes and “football tickets” giving Sunday synergy.
• Holiday Poker Party: Cookie & cocoa holiday party, gift draws between $500–$5,000, and an ugly sweater contest.
  • Michelle [05:42]: “You get to go pick a present and the present’s going to have anywhere from 500 to 5,000.”
• New Year’s Eve: Seven $2,026 prize drawings, $226 high hands, $126 hot seat randoms, free resort stays for tournament package buyers.
  • Molly [07:08]: “We’re adding 5,000 to the prize pool…should get about 300 players.”

Tournament/Travel “Staycation”

• Three-day January “Staycation”: Buy-ins get you free resort stays. Events throughout the year—January, April, October.
  • Molly [08:27]: “If you buy all three days, you get to stay at the hotel for, at the resort for two nights for free.”

Poker Community Vibes

• The Arizona Climate: Mild 69 degrees discussed compared to stormy East Coast winter.
  • Michelle [08:54]: “It was 69 degrees just a little while ago.”
• Sense of Community: Poker’s diversity & mentorship, from college students to nonagenarians.
  • Michelle [12:54]: “There’s people I’ve known for 27 years…It feels like a family, but it’s a diverse family…”

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2. High Roller Stories & Poker’s Social Fabric

[10:00–17:59]

• Molly Bloom’s WPT Comments: Citing three player types in high-stakes poker:
  • Self-destructive/chasing losses
  • Chaos/action-junkies
  • Lovers of the game (majority of listeners)
    • Joe Scales [10:59]: “...the lovers of the game, which I think is where the majority of our listeners would fall…”
• Poker & Life Diversity:
  • Host 1 [11:31]: “Poker players…represent lots of different communities, families, all walks of life. I can never predict who I’m going to sit down next to...”
• Community Support Moments:
  • Story of Troy Hawk buying in mugging victim at WPT for the main event.
    • Host 1 [16:53]: “Troy Hawk gets him an eleven hundred dollar buy-in into the main event.”
  • Joe Scales [17:00]: “...goes back to the sense of community that poker players have for each other...We really take care of our own.”

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3. Call the Floor with Elliot Schechter

[22:08–35:54]

Ruling Breakdown: Exposed Card and a Dead Hand?

• Listener Ivan asks: Is it correct to kill a player’s hand in a tournament after they expose a card heads-up?
• Elliot’s Take:
  • Under TDA Rules, the hand should NOT be killed for exposing a card; a steep penalty can be applied after the hand.
    • Elliot [24:04]: “Taking somebody’s hand away is about the worst form of punishment…There’s no reason to do it, not in the situation.”
    • Elliot [31:32]:
      “Rule 68: Exposing cards with action pending…may result in a penalty, but not a dead hand.”
  • Table talk and exposing cards—strict rules apply even heads-up in tournaments.
  • Old “dead hand for exposed card” rules need to be phased out.

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4. Hand of the Week: AK, Top Pair, and the Hero Call

[36:04–57:35]

Hand Details

• 1/3 No Limit Hold’em, Hero: $400, UTG Ace of hearts, King of diamonds
• Preflop: Hero raises to $10 (discussion about whether $12–$15 is more effective these days).
• Flop: K♥ 9♦ 4♥. Hero checks, villain bets $18, Hero calls.
• Turn: 7♣. Hero checks, villain bets $45, Hero calls.
• River: 3♠. Hero checks, villain shoves for $305 into $150 pot.

Strategy Discussion

• Should Hero lead out on flop for value, rather than check/call?
  • Patrick [42:58]: “Not the worst idea, but I don’t like it.” (on the check)
• On river, massive overbet looks bluffy; team debates call vs. fold.
  • Joe Scales [53:05]: “The way we played this hand, checking every street, was designed to induce a bluff.”
  • Patrick [53:25]: “We start out the show every week...one of the lines is hero calls. I’m putting on the hero cape. I’m calling.”
• Outcome: Villain shows 9♠ 9♥ (flopped set). Hero’s hero call runs into it.
  • Joe Scales [54:17]: “I end up making the call. And the villain quickly turns over nine of hearts, nine of spades. So he flopped a set.”
  • Postmortem: Both reflect that leading out the flop gives more info and “pot control” might not have been optimal.

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5. Joe’s One Outer: Poker Wisdom for Life

[60:28–63:47]

• Joe draws an analogy between sweating “small pots” in life (trivial annoyances) and folding “big pots” (major life decisions, health, relationships).
  • Quote [60:28]:
    “If you find yourself tilted over the little annoyances…you’re bleeding chips into pots that don’t matter. Meanwhile, the big ones…aren’t getting [your attention]. When you find those small pots...let them go...Instead, find those big pots you’ve been underplaying and make a bet.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Michelle [04:12]: “It’s so fun every year, like to see all the different toys and know that it’s going to a worthy cause...”
• Joe Scales [10:59]: “...the lovers of the game, which I think is where the majority of our listeners would fall…”
• Host 1 [11:31]: “I can never predict who I’m going to sit down next to. And that’s part of the thrill...”
• Elliot Schechter [24:04]: “Taking somebody’s hand away is about the worst form of punishment one can come up with and is not reasonable in any way.”
• Joe Scales [17:00]: “...goes back to the sense of community that poker players have for each other...We really take care of our own.”
• Patrick [53:25]: “We start out the show every week...one of the lines is hero calls. I’m putting on the hero cape. I’m calling.”
• Joe Scales [60:28]: “Small pots decide nothing, but big pots decide everything.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Table Talk (Arizona Events & Community): [02:37–21:53]
• Social Fabric & Player Types Discussion: [10:00–17:59]
• Call the Floor / Tournament Rule Deep-dive: [22:08–35:54]
• Hand of the Week—AK Hero Call: [36:04–57:35]
• Joe’s One Outer (Poker/Life Analogy): [60:28–63:47]

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Conclusion

This episode blends practical poker tips and adjudications, community celebration, and genuinely funny, heartfelt banter. Highlights include insight into Arizona’s robust poker scene, a deep-dive on rules enforcement, and honest strategy conversations—plus the reminder to devote your best efforts where they matter most, both at and away from the table.

Listeners are left with the sense that poker is not just a game, but a community and a lens through which we can consider life itself.

Transcript

[Elliot Schechter]

Reggie, I just sold my car online. Let's go, Grandpa. Wait, you did? Yep, On Carvana. Just put in the license plate, answered a few questions, got an offer in minutes. Easier than setting up that new digital picture frame. You don't say. Yeah, they're even picking it up tomorrow. Talk about fast. Wow. Way to go. So about that picture frame. Ah, forget about it. Until Carvana makes one, I'm not interested.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Car selling made easy on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Broadcasting from the Ante up studio, it's the longest running poker podcast for the everyday poker player with your host, Joe Scale.

[Joe Scales]

Hello, a team, and welcome back to another episode of the Ante Up Poker podcast, where every hand is an opportunity, every player is a friend, and every episode is a winning experience. I'm your host, Joe Scales, and this week I want to give a huge shout out to Goddard Play Money, who took down the Patreon hold' Em game last night. That makes two in a row for him. So that also means the bounty's gonna be doubling next month. If you've been waiting for a little extra motivation to jump into the hold' Em game each month, well, there you go. We've got our mixed game coming up next week, Thursday the 18th, and we're firing up some PLO. Deoch will be the bounty for that one. And we had some new faces in the game this week, so I'm hoping that we have even more new faces this coming up week. These games are some of my favorite moments every month, and it's always great catching up with everyone around the Virtual Felt, as well as on Discord. Now, before Elle joins me for Table Talk, I have one more announcement, and that is that the latest issue of Any up magazine is out. You can check it [e-mail] by clicking on the magazine tab or you can grab it through the magazine link in the link tree. Lots of great stories in there. You don't want to miss that. And Elle and I have some guests joining us around the table again this week. So that's all I have for now. Let's get on with the show.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Find out what conversations are happening around the poker table with Table Talk.

[Joe Scales]

Elle and I are back around the

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

poker table with two of our favorites. Michelle and Molly out in Arizona. How are you today? Hey there.

[Michelle]

Good, good, good. How are you guys?

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

We're really good.

[Joe Scales]

Good.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

We're really glad to see you back and cannot wait to hear how did the fall series go?

[Joe Scales]

I just wanted to jump right in. Like, how. How did it go well?

[Molly]

It went pretty well. We started it off with a fifteen hundred dollar buy in and just it was one day buy and then the finals the following day. We had 223 players and first place was over 78,000.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Nice.

[Molly]

Yeah, really started out really great. And then we did some 3 and $500 buy ins and then finish it off with the seniors. We ended up with about 665 of those players and first place was 55, 9. So it really turned out nice.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Well and from the pictures we've gotten from Dustin, big smiles on all the faces, you guys. That series was highlighted in our magazine which everybody can find off of our website. So check it out. What do you guys have coming up for this month?

[Michelle]

Yeah, December's packed. I feel like December is packed.

[Joe Scales]

That's a good thing.

[Michelle]

We have a lot of cash promotions for December, a lot of more charitable stuff. We had a great holiday toy drive.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Oh God.

[Michelle]

We had 418 entries. So over 400 toys donated and then additional cash donations of $6100 going to the community charity that distributes all the toys to the families.

[Joe Scales]

That's great.

[Michelle]

Yeah, it was really good.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

That gave me cold chills.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Michelle]

Yeah. I'll email you a picture of the table set up with all the toys. It's so fun every year, like to see all the different toys and know that it's going to, you know, worthy cause and just seeing how much fun that the players have playing this tournament. It's a lot of fun. And then a lot of cash promos. I mean we have high hands this weekend, this Sunday. Thousand dollar high hands. They start at 10 in the morning. And then we also combine it with football. We call them football tickets out here. We give out little cards and they have numbers on them. And if the score and the game that we're watching lines up with your ticket, then you win money. So we give away a ton of money on Sundays in general. And then we added the thousand dollar high hands on it. We should have all 69 tables rocking and rolling this coming Sunday.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Well, that is fantastic. And I wish we could be there. As soon as you said thousand dollars high hand. I'm like how much to Arizona if

[Michelle]

you can't make it this Sunday, the following Saturday, you know, I mean every good company needs a, needs a holiday party, right? Like a company holiday party. So we're having a poker holiday party with cookies and hot cocoa and cash. You get to open up. You know, we've been giving out tickets since December 1st. If we draw your name, you get to go pick a present and the president's going to have anywhere from 500 to 5,000.

[Joe Scales]

Oh, oh.

[Michelle]

And it's for the hot hands and hot seats and all kinds of fun. But yeah, I mean, you know, if

[Joe Scales]

you win one of those, it'll pay for your trip.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

I know. So that, that's the place to be. That is the place to be in December as far as I'm concerned. And I will keep that in mind for next year. 100%.

[Michelle]

Bring your ugly sweater because we're also having a contest for that.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Okay, good. I've got kind of one on today, so I'm prepared. I have all the things, the glasses, the headbands, the hats. I get into all sorts of holiday stuff. So yeah, sounds like you guys have a lot of really cool stuff. And I love hearing giving back. That's one thing that's important to the A team. And you know, betting on better. Anytime you can do that, we would love to be able to support you and just be able to give, let folks know how to be able to do that. So yeah, Arizona sounds like the place to be in December. You guys are adding in some really cool fun on anything for New Year's.

[Michelle]

Well, of course, I mean, it wouldn't be New Year's Eve if you're not playing poker.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Right, Right.

[Michelle]

So as soon as our holiday party is done, we're transitioning. We're still going to give tickets for High Hands out. But those drawings. On New Year's Eve we're gonna have seven drawings for $2,026 each.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Oh, wow.

[Michelle]

All the way till 2am in addition to high hands of $226 and random hot seats for $126 and then a complimentary champagne toast at midnight.

[Molly]

But during the day we'll be having a tournament for $200 buy in. We're adding 5,000 to the prize pool. That starts at 11:15 and we should get about 300 players. So like you said, about 7 o', clock, 7:30 in time to enjoy the New Year's.

[Joe Scales]

Wow, that's. You guys have a pack.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Yeah. You really do.

[Joe Scales]

You weren't kidding.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Yeah, but it sounds like all different types of price points. Lots of different opportunities to just jump in. And I love the fact that you can play during New Year's Eve day or in the evening because sometimes, you know, folks have other arrangements for the evening. Or if you're like me, you're starting to get to the point where staying up till midnight could be, I could be Susan by then if I'm not careful. So. Yeah. Fantastic. Well, any other current events that you'd like to talk about going on out there?

[Molly]

Yeah. Then right after New Year's, the very next day we have a three day staycation. I don't know if you've heard of this before, but it's very, it's very nice. If you buy in, there's three tournaments, a 200, a 300 and a 300. If you buy all three days, you get to stay at the hotel for, at the resort for two nights for free. So it's really nice. And you can also satellite in. You'd run a couple satellites for 110. If you get the satellite win all three days of tournaments. And the rooms.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Oh my gosh, we do it three

[Molly]

times a year, so you'll have to check that out. January, April and October.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

January, April and October and December. Those are the times to be in Arizona is what I'm hearing, guys.

[Michelle]

And then August and then, you know, May and then just move out here. Just come out.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

You're already tempted by the landscape.

[Joe Scales]

What, what is the, what is the temperature out there right now? Because I might move.

[Michelle]

Tom, it was 69 degrees just a little while ago.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Oh my gosh. When we've already had sun was warm.

[Michelle]

It was a little like, you know, warm outside.

[Joe Scales]

Yes, you. As you can see, I am bundled up because it is, I, I don't like the cold anyway, but it is, is beyond cold.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

It has been pretty frigid here. We've, we've already experienced two snowstorms and lots of days of things being canceled out here on the East Coast. So yeah, winter is in full effect out here.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, sure.

[Michelle]

The winter is in full effect here. The golfers are enjoying it. Right. The hikers are enjoying it. Full on winter.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

I love it. I love it.

[Michelle]

I love you guys so much.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Thanks for making us laugh. Well, we've been watching, of course, you know, some social media stuff flying around all over. So there's always some new poker something happening. The WPT is, is going on out in Vegas, which always generates just like the WSOP in the summer. It always generates, you know, some extra things and then WSOP is in paradise right now.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

But actually they interviewed Molly from Molly's game.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, Molly Bloom.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Molly Bloom. And I've just really found it interesting what she had to say about now she's running a different kind of game than our everyday poker player is usually involved in. I mean, I'm not going to play with Leonardo DiCaprio at her game. Right, Molly, and I'd love to, but anyhow, she had some fun things to say about observations of, of folks she saw playing in some high stakes games.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, right. She, she broke them down into three categories. Basically the self destructive players, which they're the ones chasing losses and, and putting their finances and their relationships in, in jeopardy. Right, yeah. But then you've got the chaos volatility seekers, which are just really the action junkies I would call them.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Yeah. And then thrill seekers. Yeah, that's what they used to be called, thrill seekers. Right, yeah.

[Joe Scales]

And then you've got the lovers of the game, which I think is where the majority of our listeners would, would fall in that lovers of the game. Yeah. Category. Like you said, she put on a whole different game. She put on these games that were super, super high stakes and they were an underground game. They're not going, you know, they're not playing those games in a casino or something like that. They're playing those games behind closed doors. Yeah, exactly.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

But what I loved about the, the reason I even brought it up or thinking about it is, is sometimes when you go poker players are just poker players. No, actually they represent lots of different communities, families, all walks of life. And what I'm finding is I can never predict who I'm going to sit down next to. And that's part of the thrill of playing the game is like who's going to be my next competitor? Right. I mean we played against. If you want to talk about even just age differences. I've sat down at tables with 21 year olds who are, you know, hang on. The sports game that they're watching while they're playing with me versus how old was the guy that I played against in Coco Poker? 94 years old. Sharp, sharp, sharp. Happy to be there. Right. So you know, tell us what you guys see coming in and out of the, the poker room every day. It's a mixed bag. Right. That's the exciting part if you kind

[Michelle]

of think about it. Right. Poker is one of the few places you can go by yourself. Right. It's socially acceptable. Go in by yourself and you sit down in your seashell. Right. I mean some people can go to the bar by themselves or go out to a restaurant by themselves. It's not as socially acceptable as it is to come into a poker room. I know myself. I prefer to play by myself. I don't want to go with a group of people because if I'm stuck I'm going to stay A little longer. You know what I mean? If I win, I want to be able to leave. I don't want to have to wait for everybody.

[Joe Scales]

Right, Right.

[Michelle]

So we have such a great community out here in Arizona. We have. I mean, there's people I've known for 27 years. I mean, I know the families, I know the wives, they bring their grandkids in, they want to introduce our family to us. I mean, yeah, it's, it's, it feels like a family in a lot of ways, but it's a diverse family because you're right, there's like this up and coming generation of poker players in their young twenties. They are ready to go, they're firing at it, and they want to learn everything. They're sponges. They're talking about it, they're talking about the theories and, and all of that. And they got. The old timers are like, yeah, he caught an ace on me. Yeah, he's seen it a thousand times.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

It's so true. And another thing that I really found, you know, somewhat comforting is there's so much opportunity for mentorship and friendship in the midst of all of that. Right. Like, I can't tell you the number of texts Joe gets from young college guys who are asking, you know, what should I do in this spot? Or, how could I have played this better? And I have friends who are saying, I just went to my first tournament and I'm not really sure if I should have done this or that. And it's just been, it's opened a door to having more conversation. Like you said, you may go, you may play by yourself, but the community that it brings is really what keeps drawing me back to poker. And that's what I liked hearing, you know, Molly comment on was lots of different people. Like, even when we set up bar poker here, I would have never met some of these folks had we not started playing poker together. And I cherish those friendships that we have. So it's just cool to see the game bringing people together consistently and growing. Like you mentioned, there is a huge wave of young players. That's really exciting to watch.

[Michelle]

Yes.

[Joe Scales]

And it makes a difference, you know, the, the people that you're sitting with. If we were all the same.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

Then that would be the most boring game in the world.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Absolutely.

[Joe Scales]

So it makes a difference to sit down there with people and, and it's such a. I hate this, use this phrase, but, but it's such a melting pot. It really is. Like, you know, you can sit down at a table with somebody that's it's their first time there. Right. And you can sit down with somebody like you said, this 94.

[Michelle]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

That's been playing since they were 17 probably.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

Or longer. So I, I love the game. I love the whole aspect of it. Like from, from the veterans to the newbies. It's so fun to, to be involved with all of them.

[Michelle]

It is.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

And another heartwarming story that we heard this week is there's a comedian that is walking, walking the hall of the WPP at the Wynn and he runs into a. To somebody who ends up just complimenting him, it's remind me of his name.

[Joe Scales]

Troy.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

No, Troy Hawk is the Troy Hawk. I couldn't think of his name. Troy Hawk is the comedian. And he's always wearing this like fantastical smoking jacket with a scarf and he's got this crazy mustache. And at first you're like, okay, this is a character. He's in character. What is he doing? Right. A man named Wes Larson had just gotten into Vegas for the first time with his family, wanted to play at the wpt, ends up getting mugged on the street of Vegas with his son in tow. And he said just to defuse the situation, I just took my cash out of my pocket, which I'm assuming was his entry, and said, off you go. Right. Which we would all do at any point in time we could with our family members. And so he just. That had happened. And Troy Hawk is walking the halls and Wes happens to walk past Troy and goes, I really like your purple jacket. A man who can rock purple is, you know, important in my book or something. And they chat about this situation and Troy Hawk gets him an eleven hundred dollar buy in into the main event.

[Michelle]

Yeah, it's amazing.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

It is.

[Michelle]

You know, honestly, that goes back to the sense of community that poker players have for each other.

[Joe Scales]

100.

[Michelle]

I mean it really does. It's, it's, it might be a small subsection of like the gambling world, but like we really take care of our own.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

We do.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. I used to remember hearing stories about Binion, you know, back in the days of the early days of the World Series at Binions and how somebody might bust and he would give them, you know, airfare or whatever back home. Because that's what we do. We, we take care of each other. You know, we want to see you

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

back at the Felt at some point. We've all been in the ups, the, the highs and the lows and I think we can relate to those high highs and those low lows. Right?

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Michelle]

Yeah, well, there's stories like in our. Some of our high limit games, they might take every single chip from somebody at the table, but then they all go out to dinner and they have a, you know, a crazy expensive dinner, you know.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Michelle]

But they want every chip because it's competitive. They're not going to give them an inch on the table. Yes.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

I. I live with one of those. I'm fully aware if he could take every single one of my chips, he would. And he still has to, you know, live with me. So I get that.

[Joe Scales]

I. I believe she. She points at me, but I think the feeling is mutual.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

If I can take all of these trips, I would do it gladly.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

You're not going to play this game unless you have some sort of competition going on.

[Michelle]

Right.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

And last, like, just fun thing that we found this week. You guys mentioned hot cocoa and cookies. You may want to check this out. This is not a paid ad. I just saw it this week. Liquid IV to stay hydrated has been a packet of all sorts of, I think, you know, minerals and.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

What are those called?

[Joe Scales]

Electrolytes.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Electrolytes.

[Michelle]

Yes.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Yes. You can just toss into your water bottle, Shake it up. There's lemon, lime, there's berry. There's all the things you're used to. They have a hot chocolate one now that you can put in with. Yes, with hot water. And they're advertising. Do it with hot water. Mix it up, put a little whipped cream on there, and then off you go. And you say hydrated. So you may want to pack it to try it. We're going to get some and try it on air next week. So I think stocking stuff are ideal.

[Michelle]

I think that sounds fun. Have you tried the rainbow sherbet flavor? No.

[Joe Scales]

No.

[Michelle]

It's unbelievable. It's really good. Okay. Rainbow sherbet.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Well, and that's something I like.

[Joe Scales]

That's a good one, too. But. But I was thinking about hot chocolate, and I'm like, this has to. If you're drinking this at the table.

[Michelle]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

You have to be less likely to tilt because I don't think you can be angry and.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

I don't know. Challenge flag.

[Michelle]

I'm gonna throw that down right now.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

I have a feeling there's somebody somewhere that will still do it. Oh, God. If your pocket pair gets cracked, you can still be mad with hot chocolate, whipped cream on your face. Oh, gosh, that's funny. Well, we certainly always love having you guys on. We laugh, we cry, we giggle. It's been so fun to see you Guys, anything else that you can think of that's happening this week? This month?

[Michelle]

This.

[Joe Scales]

This month.

[Michelle]

I think we hit the highlights, but, you know, hopefully. I mean, I hope you guys can make some travel plans for the end of January for their. For the very first major stop of the mspt, which is our first time partnering with them to put on this event. So check out both our website or the MSPT website for all the details, but, I mean, I think we might be the place to be. Not only do we have this going on, but there's a lot of other fun things going on in Arizona at that time of year, so.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Okay. All right, fantastic. Great to know.

[Joe Scales]

We definitely got to get out there for the warmth weather anyway, so we'll have to find a time that we can make the.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

We'll be checking our calendar. Trust me, after this.

[Michelle]

Elle, you. If you want to compete to be, you know, the second annual National Women's Poker Champion, we've also set. We've set dates for that, too. February 28th and March 1st. It's our second National Women's Poker Championship.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Fantastic.

[Joe Scales]

Nice.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

All right, well, we'll be checking our calendars and seeing when we can make it out there soon because we're ready.

[Joe Scales]

It's just.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

It's just a matter of when. It's not. If so, we're certainly looking forward to it. All right, everybody.

[Michelle]

Come out of the snow. Come out of the cold.

[Joe Scales]

Come.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

I think Joe will be ready for a respite by January anyway, so. January, February would be a good time for us to get out of Dodge. That's about when you get squirrely.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, that's true.

[Host 1 (possibly Joe Scale or co-host)]

Yeah. So. Well, as always, it is a pleasure being around the table with all of you.

[Joe Scales]

Likewise.

[Michelle]

Likewise. Yeah. Thank you very much.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Now it's time for Call the Floor with Elliot Schechter.

[Joe Scales]

Elliot Schechter joins us each week to say how he would ruin situations that come up in your games. And he's with us again this week. Ellie, how's it going?

[Elliot Schechter]

Things are going pretty well, thanks. I'm doing all right. How you doing?

[Joe Scales]

I'm good. I'm bundled up. I've got my warmest hoodie I could find on. I'm telling you, I'm in the wrong state for this weather. It's good to have all four seasons, I guess, but I'm getting more and more likely to want to move to somewhere that's warm all the time.

[Elliot Schechter]

Well, there's a lot of warmer states that have a lot more poker, so. Yeah, you got A lot of good choices out there.

[Joe Scales]

That is fair. It's a business decision.

[Elliot Schechter]

Exactly. Easily justifiable.

[Joe Scales]

Right. Speaking of business, we have a call the floor that's sent in by Ivan Jarvis and he says, elliot, I have a ruling from a recent tournament. They play TDA rules, standard setup. Player A is tanking on the river and he's facing an all in bet from another player. He is the only player left to act. And while he is deep in thought, they turn over one of their hole cards, obviously trying to get a read on the other player as that card made trips on the board.

[Elliot Schechter]

Sure.

[Joe Scales]

The dealer immediately calls the floor. He explains that the player intentionally exposed one of his cards and the floor declares player A's hand dead because of the exposed card. So Ivan asks, is that the correct ruling? And even if that's not allowed, should the player be given a warning or a penalty with the hand staying live? He says, thanks for the wisdom.

[Elliot Schechter]

Well, apparently they were using most of the TDA rules, but not all of the TDA rules. The TDA does address this and doesn't allow us to take a player's hand away. There are still some card rooms out there that are using some form of this killing exposed hand rule. Well, that's gotta stop. Taking somebody's hand away is about the worst form of punishment one can come up with and is not reasonable in any way. It's one player to a hand. So all of a sudden if a guy exposes a Carter to. We are deciding to discard the hand instead of the actual player who owns the hand. It's not right. It doesn't make sense. And as Ivan correctly brought up, we can assess a penalty after the hand. And generally this is going to be pretty steep. We're very likely going to give a minimum three hand penalty and maybe even longer. So there's ways of doing that. Guy's doing this every other hand or every time he's in a showdown. Yeah. We'll eventually send him to the rail for the rest of the tournament if we have to. Hopefully it never gets that and shouldn't, but you just can't take somebody's hand away. There's no reason to do it, not in the situation. Like the hand's live, it's still in his possession, it's still his turn to act. It's not reasonable to take it away. It's just not a good thing. The rooms that are still doing this need to stop. This is the wrong way to deal with player etiquette and player behavior.

[Joe Scales]

Well, let Me ask this question because he did mention that, that these are the only two in the hand. So I feel like that even in and of itself makes this less of a quote unquote crime because they're heads up. And I know you shouldn't do it at all, but the fact that they're heads up, I feel like this should be less of a big deal as well because he's literally just almost like table talk with this one person. But it doesn't make a difference

[Elliot Schechter]

on the face of it. That's reasonable. It's two players in a hand. One is trying to get a read from the other. Their actions can't affect anybody else at the table. Now we've got other considerations. In a cash game, it stops there. That is the only consideration. The blinds never go up. People can come and go, you can cash out your chips, you can buy more chips. So any one hand is only played against those players, period. And when your head's up, you're only playing against that one player. And anything you do is not going to be consequential past that point in a tournament, there are several more considerations. You can't come and go as you please. You can't cash out your chips, you can't buy more chips at latent stages. Most importantly, you're not just playing the players in the hand and at the table. You're playing theoretically the entire field, every single hand. It's just that space considerations. And being that there's only 52 cards in a deck, we can only deal in so many players per hand. So we're divided up amongst tables. But it's a tournament and everybody is still playing everybody else. So theoretically, the entire field is participating at every table. So when you're exposing your cards, you're not just affecting that one hand and trying to win that one pot. You're still affecting the overall play and conduct of the tournament. Which is why this rule exists and which is why it needs to be enforced. Exposing your cards should not be allowed because you're giving away information intentionally to other players with whom you may have some kind of agreement. So again, also, it's a waste of time and players want to see the next hand. And if we, if we delayed the playing of the next hand every single time because somebody's trying to gain information via this method, tournaments would grind to a halt. And we fairly exhausted the in the ways we can increase the amount of hands per round and still make tournaments fun, enjoyable and playable. So yeah, on the surface, sure, exposing your hand only Affects that one hand and that one person in reality, no, you're still playing everybody in the field and you're still treating everybody that way. And you're wasting everybody's time, not just your opponent's time.

[Joe Scales]

I know that the, the misconception is that table talk is okay. When you're down heads up against somebody, you can talk as much as you want. And that's not actually the case. Right. So.

[Elliot Schechter]

Well, now we're getting into specific rules for specific venues and specific tours. Some tours have more liberal rules because it plays well in a vlog or on streaming or than any other number of ways it could be more entertaining. That doesn't mean it should be. And some casinos card rooms tours don't try to allow a whole lot of it just so that we can expedite the game. The more time we waste, the less fun it is for everybody.

[Joe Scales]

Which brings me to my point, which is that this is kind of the same idea, right? Just because your head's up, it still isn't allowed because you're still slowing down the game. And to your point from earlier, I didn't even think about. You are giving information to the whole table and you're not truly up.

[Elliot Schechter]

It's a tournament situation where the field is set and you're still playing everybody in the field. Everybody is playing everybody else. It's a single entry, single player event on multiple tables. Everybody is still theoretically playing everybody else. You don't win the money or, or your prize award because you eliminated the player you're in the pot with. You're winning because eventually there are fewer players than there are paid positions. And you win us, you win prize money based on your time of elimination. So again, you're not just playing the person you're in the pot with, you're playing everybody in the field. And the conditions have to remain the same. You can't just be exposing your cards all the time.

[Joe Scales]

Well, what technically, what is the rule in TDA for a situation like this? I know you mentioned that it, the TDA addresses it, but what, what does it say in this case?

[Elliot Schechter]

I want to pull up the rules since because I want to quote this correctly. Rule 67, no disclosure. One player to a hand. Players must protect other players in the tournament at all times. Therefore, players, whether in the hand or not, must not discuss contents of live or mucked hands, advise or criticize play, read a hand that hasn't been tabled, etc. Rule 68 exposing cards and proper folding. Exposing cards with action pending, including a current Player, when last to act may result in a penalty, but not a dead hand. So killing the hand was obviously not right there. Any penalty begins at the end of the hand, therefore in the middle of the hand, you got to let it play out. When folding cards should be pushed forward low to the table, not expressly, not deliberately exposed or tossed high. So, yeah, it's rather explicit. Just not allowed.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, I didn't expect it to lay it out quite that explicitly. So, yeah, that is. That's good. Sounds like they definitely had the right intention, but got it completely wrong. I mean, Ivan, it sounds like you were spot on, though, in catching this one. And you had two parts of the question. The first part is it was the correct ruling, not the right action. Well, I guess.

[Elliot Schechter]

I mean, they knew what they were ruling on was not right. They didn't rule it correctly. So the. The penalty was absolutely incorrect. But yeah, they. They found something wrong and acted on it. And after that it was haywire.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, yeah. So it. It doesn't work to be partially right in these cases. You've got to know, especially when it lays it out literally, word for word, that this is not the way to do it. You shouldn't kill the player's hand.

[Elliot Schechter]

So for this, there are spots where we take a player's hand away, and that's when they've thrown a punch or spat at somebody and they have to be ejected immediately, no questions asked. But for breaches of rules and etiquette, we could take care of it. After the hand is played, the cards are still live, the pot is still under contest. We're not making that decision by who gets to win a pot. We're not. We're not picking winners and losers. We are gonna provide consequences for behavior. And like I said, if it's violent or unseemly, we'll make an immediate decision. But otherwise, if it's merely the technical play of the game, we're going to wait till after the hand to apply a penalty. And that doesn't mean it won't be incredibly stiff.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Elliot Schechter]

Well, we're going to. We're going to let the hand play out. It's only right.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. I mean, even when we watch these tournaments on tv, if a floor has to make a ruling or a decision on something, then they want. Or they want to talk to the. The player. It's always, we're going to have a discussion after the hand is over. Exactly. So where this went off track, I'm not sure what, you know, what the thought process was there by the the floor in this case. But kudos to you.

[Elliot Schechter]

There are card for Tom that are still operating under this rule. I have known several in the Pacific Northwest, so there are places that have had poker for decades that have operated under rules from many, many years ago that shouldn't be applied now but are still in effect simply because changing things can sometimes be more difficult than putting up with bad rules.

[Joe Scales]

Well, Ivan, that, that should clear it up and I appreciate you sending that in. And if anyone has a call the floor that they would like to know how Elliott would rule, send it to podcastyupmagazine.com Please do. Elliot, appreciate you again.

[Elliot Schechter]

Very welcome. Love doing it.

[Joe Scales]

We'll see you next week.

[Elliot Schechter]

Looking forward to them.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Let's break it down with hand of.

[Joe Scales]

Welcome to Hand of the Week where Patrick, our resident fish and I dive into listener submitted hands each week. We tackle everything from questionable bluffs to hero calls and the hands that make you scratch your head. Whether you're looking for strategy tips or you just want to see if you would have played it any better, we've got you covered, Patrick. Big week this week.

[Patrick]

It is a big week this week in a lot of shapes, forms and fashions. But I do have a quick thought. Maybe this is a new part of this thought of the day from yours truly. Do you think there are guys and ladies driving down the road meeting to meeting, sit on our couch wherever they listen to us and they're just screaming at whatever device they're listening on, going, you would check there? I mean, I just, I was thinking about that last week and I, you know what? If, if you're doing that, I, I appreciate that. We're getting there. You know, it's been, it's been a very fun ride. It's gonna only continue. But they also have been all over you too. Yeah, they've, they've sweatshirts made up soon.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. Joe's and knit. Joe's and knit. Yeah, it, it is interesting. You know, there's. Poker is such a fun game because there's a hundred different ways you can play it.

[Patrick]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Joe Scales]

We go into these hands trying to play them as much like we would in the moment as we can. Right. Because we don't know when we get this hand, we don't know what's going to be happening from street to street. So, you know, it's, it is interesting to see people because people will message. Oh yeah, sometimes they'll talk about them in the discord. They'll, they'll put the comments in there on YouTube or they'll send me an email. And it is interesting to hear the other takes. Right. Sometimes I'll listen back and be like, you know what? Yeah, I did play that wrong. Or, or whatever. But I'm making the decisions. We are making the decisions in the moment, and we're going to make mistakes in the moment just like we do at the table. Everybody makes a mistake. The pros make a mistake at the tables. It just happens. But we're going to, we're going to see if we can break out of nit mode this week.

[Patrick]

I like it. What do we got this week? Who sent one in?

[Joe Scales]

We have, we have a hand of the week sent in by Grayson Ingram.

[Patrick]

All right.

[Joe Scales]

And Grayson is playing one three no limit hold'. Em. He has $400 in his stack, and he's sitting under the gun with the ace of hearts, king of diamonds, so. All right. I like that.

[Patrick]

Yeah, you should be able to do a little work with this. I like this. Okay,

[Joe Scales]

so we can, I think, I think we've been doing this long enough. We can both agree we're raising here.

[Patrick]

Yes, we absolutely are. I'm assuming it, it, it. So we're here. Yes, we're definitely raising. I'm assuming you're going to be in the, the 3ish times, maybe a little bit more range.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. So I've been thinking about this actually the last.

[Patrick]

Because 2026 is coming up and you're going to have a new motto for 2026.

[Joe Scales]

Maybe. Maybe. I've been, I've been thinking about my game at, at the 13 level because it seems less and less like $10 is enough, which is where I've been usually 1 3. It would 3. Three times. The big blind would be 9. So it just rounded up to 10. That's where I would be. But I feel like $12 is the new $10.

[Patrick]

I feel. Let me ask you this, and I think I already know the answer. And so do a lot of people out here in these 13 games. A lot. I feel like you're catching a lot more callers at 10 than you are at 12. Or even if it's a little bit. If this is the right terminology, Joe, tell me. If not, you know my critics. Leave me be for a second. But a little looser game in 15 is a little bit of more of a norm. Is that accurate to say?

[Joe Scales]

I, I would say 12 to 15 is where you've got to go. I, I, I do feel comfortable at the 12 because that is, it's not a lot more than 10. But it still seems to mentally have people thinking, oh, he's serious. Right?

[Patrick]

Yeah. Okay.

[Joe Scales]

Even though you're just adding $2 there. I. I've only tested this theory in my last cash game, so more data to come, but you can report.

[Patrick]

You can report back.

[Joe Scales]

But, yeah, I think I'm going $12 here.

[Patrick]

Okay. I like it. I'm right in line with you. I had 10 or 12, so I'm good with 12.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. Let's let everybody send me your comments on whether or not you have been upping your. Your bets in, like, a 13 game or not. But Grayson still sticks with the $10 option. He. He raises to 10 and the cutoff calls, and everyone else folds. So maybe I'm way off base. I don't know. That makes the pot $24. The cutoff, he says, has $350 in their stack after making the call.

[Patrick]

Okay. So we got him covered, which is always nice.

[Joe Scales]

The flop comes the king of hearts, nine of diamonds, four of hearts, and we are first to act.

[Patrick]

I'm going 12 again.

[Joe Scales]

I think I had a little bit bigger number in mind.

[Patrick]

You're closer to 20? Yeah, for sure.

[Joe Scales]

I mean, I think we flopped exactly what we wanted here. So I'm definitely going to continue. $20 seems like the sweet spot there, so that's where I'm going. Grayson just checks, though.

[Patrick]

Okay. Couple of thoughts, real quick. One, I've been playing too much online poker because it's very easy just to tap the, you know, half pot button and just continue. So that's probably where that 12 came in. So let me on. On going record for that. I'm going to go on record and say that the check humbly is not a great idea.

[Joe Scales]

I don't think it's a great idea.

[Patrick]

It's not the worst idea, but I don't like it.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, we have the problem of we gave them control now and them checking back, and so then we missed some value from that. So I don't like the check there.

[Patrick]

I think that's the only thing. And tell me if I'm wrong on this one. I. The only thing I don't like about that in this scenario is, I mean, we're not really flopping a whole lot better than where we're at, and I don't want to lose any value right now.

[Joe Scales]

Right. And I mean, let's say he misses, you know.

[Patrick]

Yeah. I mean, he's. He's sitting on, you know, whatever he is, you know, and he's. He. He wants to see Another street for free. Then we lost value out on the street. I don't like that.

[Joe Scales]

Grayson says, I think my hand is good, but vulnerable. So I want to control the pot size with the intention of calling any bet.

[Molly]

And

[Joe Scales]

the villain bets $18.

[Patrick]

Right. Kind of alarms what we were thinking.

[Joe Scales]

So, yeah, definitely. I don't think I want to raise here.

[Patrick]

Oh, really?

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. Are you?

[Patrick]

Oh, really, Joe? Because I probably would not have been in this situation, because I probably would have bet here, and I would have called a call. If I got raised after betting, then I probably would just call that. That raise. But I don't know. You know, top pair, top kicker.

[Joe Scales]

It does give you control back.

[Patrick]

Do we just double it up? You know, just simply double it up? Maybe more, to be honest with you. 1836, you know, 45, maybe. I. That's. I like that. I think I'm coming back over the top.

[Joe Scales]

Well, now my. My brain switches to kind of where Grayson is in the pot control side of it.

[Patrick]

Fair.

[Joe Scales]

Whereas we've got top hair, top kicker. There is still a flush draw out there. $20 is where I wanted to be. We're right there. Close to that anyway, so I'm okay

[Patrick]

with just relinquish control for one round.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Okay.

[Joe Scales]

And Grayson makes the call, and the pot is $60. The turn is the seven of clubs. So the board is king of hearts, nine of diamonds, four of hearts, seven of clubs.

[Patrick]

Please tell me you're leading out here. I. I feel like sweatshirt if anybody would like to send me Joe's sweatshirt. Come on, Joe. All right, I. Let me. Let me see if I can tell you that what you're thinking now that it's switched how Grayson's played it. You checked and called. You want to do it again and see where we stand?

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. We check the flop. We got to continue the story.

[Patrick]

Fair enough. All right. No arguments. I get it. I get it.

[Joe Scales]

If we bet, we're not getting better hands to fold. So the only people that are getting out of the way are worse hands. And then this. This card should basically be a brick for our villain. Right?

[Patrick]

Right.

[Joe Scales]

It doesn't complete the straight. It doesn't complete the hearts. It doesn't improve us either, though. So I think I want to check. Give them the ability to continue to bluff at it if that's what they're doing and have the intention of calling like we did on the flop.

[Patrick]

I get it.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. And Grayson does check.

[Patrick]

Okay.

[Joe Scales]

The villain bets 45. I think that's a. Yeah. Standard bet sizing. So I Pretty easy call. We're ahead of most of their range.

[Patrick]

Take on it for, you know, a few seconds. You know, make them think. Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

Let me. Let me ask you this, though. What if they would have made it like 75?

[Patrick]

This is where Patrick of, you know, December 2025 and Patrick of December 2023 is a very different guy. If he makes it 75, I think he's, you know, it's for an analogy of overcompensation. I think he's driving a really big truck with lifted, you know, tires, and he's overcompensated for something I'm. I'm shoving. And for anyone that has a truck with oversized tires. I'm not saying that's you. I'm just saying in general.

[Joe Scales]

I.

[Patrick]

You see what I'm getting at, though, is that.

[Joe Scales]

Wrong prob. I'm probably not going to say what I was going to do because I'll just end up getting the net card again.

[Patrick]

Shut the front door. You were going to old.

[Joe Scales]

I.

[Patrick]

If it's top pair, top kicker, what are you making this kid on?

[Joe Scales]

They're going 75 plus. Then I just feel like they're representing some kind of big hand there.

[Patrick]

Yeah. Like king, queen, and they're down.

[Joe Scales]

I don't know. Okay. I don't know. But luckily, luckily, we don't have to deal with that because they may.

[Patrick]

We don't.

[Joe Scales]

And we're all as well.

[Patrick]

What is it? 150.

[Joe Scales]

So the pot's 150. Yep. The river is the three of spades making the board. King of hearts, nine of diamonds, four of hearts, seven of clubs, three of spades.

[Patrick]

All right, I'm gonna ask you some questions.

[Joe Scales]

All right, shoot.

[Patrick]

Do you make them on nines?

[Joe Scales]

Possibly, Maybe.

[Patrick]

Possible. I don't make them on fours. I really don't.

[Joe Scales]

Probably not.

[Patrick]

I don't think you make it to the. To the. The turn on sevens.

[Joe Scales]

Okay.

[Patrick]

I really don't. I. I think the only hand right now that beats us is nines.

[Joe Scales]

Nines are definitely in that range. I feel like sevens could be in the range, too. Maybe, maybe, maybe.

[Patrick]

But aces definitely no.

[Joe Scales]

Right? No aces, no kings, no queens.

[Patrick]

I'm feeling very good about this hand.

[Joe Scales]

I'm. What are you. What are you doing?

[Patrick]

Let me ask you this. If you were feeling as good as me, would you then flip the script now and on the live streak, come in or continue what you're doing?

[Joe Scales]

Okay, well, with a check call, I'm gonna answer your question with a question.

[Patrick]

I hate that.

[Joe Scales]

If you. If you Bet here, if you lead out, say, half pot. So 75, right? Yeah. And they come over the top. What are you doing?

[Patrick]

Calling.

[Joe Scales]

What if you check and they put 75 out there? Are you raising?

[Patrick]

Probably not, but maybe

[Joe Scales]

you feel like

[Patrick]

I had a little more. I think I had a little more background. I would.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. I just feel like it's. Again, it's one of those pot control kind of things where I'm gonna let them put the money out there. It's not a big pot. So I could see going your route to. If you feel super confident going your route and. And building the pot up. But I'm not sure that I'm as confident as you. I feel good, but not great. We have top pair, top character. We have one pair. So I'm not trying to go crazy and then them end up having king nine or something. So I'm checking.

[Patrick]

Okay. For the record, I'm not against that.

[Joe Scales]

Okay.

[Patrick]

Yeah. And like I said, I don't know, I'm kind of right on that borderline of confident to where I don't know that I would actually raise, but I'm definitely going to call.

[Joe Scales]

I feel like we have the perfect bluff catcher is basically what I'm saying. Yeah. Grayson also checks, and the villain goes all in for $305 into a pot of 150. So my question earlier was if they bet 75, you were like, well, then they're over representing. Is that your thought process here? Because that's the first thing that comes to my mind is they just want us to fold.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I do. I'm snack calling.

[Joe Scales]

I don't know that I'm snap calling. I'm gonna think about this for a minute. That's a massive over bet.

[Patrick]

It just a massive, massive over bet. And

[Joe Scales]

the only thing that makes sense here is that they want us to fold. My question is, what is the thought process of someone at the 13 table? Are they. Are they really bluffing two times the pot at 13 to get us to fold or to make the call? Or it's such a. I don't think they're looking at.

[Patrick]

I don't think they're looking at catching a. Well, I think it's over. I think it's an over compensation for a bluff that they don't. Just don't think that we're going to call with most of our pot.

[Joe Scales]

Right. Like missed hearts kind of thing.

[Patrick]

Yeah, for sure.

[Joe Scales]

It's just that it's such a bad price to call. Like, we have to be right something like 40% of the time for this to be a profitable call. And our play, the way we played this hand, checking every street, was designed to induce a bluff.

[Patrick]

So now that they've bluffed, you call. You call it. Listen, we start out the show every week and one of the lines is hero calls. I'm putting on the hero cape. I'm calling. We haven't had one of these in a while. Grayson, tell me Grayson called.

[Joe Scales]

I'm, I'm. I'm gonna try and, and break my knit mold here and, and, and make the call. It was my first instinct. That was. My first instinct was they're trying to get us to fold. So I'm just gonna go with my first instinct. Even though I don't like it because I'm like 1 3. I just don't feel like they're putting their whole stack in as a bluff. But let's, let's see what happens. He says, I end up making the call.

[Patrick]

Atta boy.

[Joe Scales]

And the villain quickly turns over. Nine of hearts, nine of spades. So he flopped a set.

[Patrick]

Womp, womp, womp.

[Joe Scales]

Oh, wow. So much for breaking out of the net mold.

[Patrick]

So much for the hero call. Yeah, should have been rephrased as zero call.

[Joe Scales]

He says, considering villains aggression, what is your preferred line on the flop and why? Let me take this first. If we lead out, if we on the flop and end up facing a raise either there or on the turn, either one, then maybe I can start to look at some other hands that beat us.

[Patrick]

I think I'd feel a little more confident about them holding nines if I'd caught that.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I think you're right. I think if you, I think if you lead out from the flop now no one's saying that they're going to raise. You know, if you lead out enough, they, they're just going to continue to call you and be happy as a clam. I mean, I'm not quite as good at eye rolling as my kids are, but I'd give that guy a real big eye roll with a. Twice the pot all in, you know?

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. This, the river is what kills me because that big of an over bet is what made me believe that they wanted a fold. Wow, that's. That's tough.

[Patrick]

That stinks. Yeah, that, that hurts.

[Joe Scales]

I just wanted to be right so, so badly.

[Patrick]

Oh, I already felt it. I have like a, A celebration dance to do over here on camera. You guys are going to have to wait for that for next week. Yeah. Grayson, I think the one thing if you, if you're probably thinking it too, because you asked the question. I think if you lead out on. On the. The flop there, then maybe you find out more information instead of just check, call, check call, check call, and then you get, you know, the. The house thrown at you.

[Joe Scales]

And, yeah, I think like the wicked

[Patrick]

witch of the west, it landed on you and killed you.

[Joe Scales]

And when I. When I think back to the call on the river, though, like, top pair, top kicker, we're just hero calling. Are we confident enough that we're beating all of the plausible hands there? Maybe we should have just let it go.

[Patrick]

See, I don't have the numbers as much as you and some of the other guys. It's something I'm still working on. I don't. If you threw out, what, 40%, you're gonna be right 40% of the time to make it profitable. Yeah, because you said that. I hesitated. Yeah, I didn't. I. I was confident, but I wasn't that confident. I don't think. Yeah, I think I make that call every day, though, if the way that that hand's played, I think I make that call because I don't feel crazy confident that they're sitting on knots. You know, I make them on Team Queen. I make them on Team Jack.

[Joe Scales]

Makes sense, huh? We talked about the fact that it makes sense. It's in their range. Yeah, that's tough.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

But, Grayson, I'm really glad you sent it in.

[Patrick]

Yeah, that's a really good one to send in. Thank you.

[Joe Scales]

I. Right or wrong, I broke out of my nit, so maybe that can stop getting the. The emails there. Maybe I was too aggressive this time, but whatever. But. But, yeah, I appreciate you sending that in. And if anyone has a hand of the week that they would like to know how Patrick and I would break it down, send it to podcasty magazine.com Patrick we'll see how things shape up this weekend with the Pats and the Bills.

[Patrick]

See you Sunday at 1, Joe.

[Joe Scales]

By the way, I got. I. I did get a message from what's up doc that plays in the Patreon game. He sent me a little picture to remind me who was in first place in the AFC east, because I said I couldn't. Then it was escaping me who was there.

[Patrick]

But you know what? It'll be very interesting. It. We gave every. Gave the rest of the NFL five years, and all you guys did with it was throw Patty Mahomes and those boys out in KC up to the front. And you know, Jayla hurts. And once you know it's I don't know. We'll see.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

So I'm gonna go on record, though. I still think Josh out. If, if I take one quarterback. You tell me I have to take one quarterback in the NFL right now, today, I still think I take your boy.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

For all my Patriot fans out there, come at me, I don't care. Give me another season of Drake May before I start making that comparison. I mean, don't get me wrong, Drake May's made some passes where, you know, he's sitting in the pocket and it's just a flick of the wrist. I mean, we're not having to like, you know, Philip Rivers, you know, reach back and throw this thing, you know, sorry for the side hit there, Philip. But yeah, I mean, he just. A flick of the wrist, they're accurate. He's got the receivers. He's definitely got an amazing future. And I think it's going to be very, very bright. So we're.

[Joe Scales]

I will not, I will not disparage Drake May. I think he is. Is a great quarterback. I think he is a good quarterback. We will see if he becomes a great quarterback and. Well, we'll see. We'll see if he becomes a great quarterback. Right now, the Bills already have a great quarterback. Quarterback. So we'll see how this shakes out on Sunday and we'll have something to. To compare notes next week.

[Patrick]

Might have to. Might have to go on a draftkings and put my money where my mouth is.

[Joe Scales]

All right, well, I'll see you next week and good luck to your boys.

[Patrick]

Sounds good. You too, buddy.

[Narrator/Announcer]

It's time for Joe's one outer.

[Joe Scales]

If you've played enough poker. If you're listening to this podcast, you've probably played enough poker. You've seen this guy before, the player who will fight tooth and nail for a six dollar limped pot. I mean, tanking like it's the main event bubble, all for a pot you could fit inside a child's piggy bank. But put him in a big pot, a moment that actually matters, and he's folding Jack's face up like he's donating to charity. No fight, no resistance. And we laugh at this player, but honestly, we do the same thing in life. We spend our emotional energy sweating the small pots. Someone cut you off while merging the barista got your coffee order wrong again. Someone. And we won't name names. Continues to load the dishwasher like they're trying to solve a geometry puzzle with their eyes closed. Those are tiny pots, yet we bet big into Those. We get angry, we get stressed, we get tilted. Sometimes for the entire day. We blow our stack on something that shouldn't cost us more than a polite check. Fold. And then on the flip side, the big pots come around. The things that actually matter. Our health, relationships, long term goals. And what do we do? We check behind for pot control. We fold when we should be fighting. We push important conversations to the side because they feel uncomfortable. It's like we're afraid to play for the pots that really count. But here's the thing. Both on the felt and in life, the big pots shape your session. The small pots don't. If you find yourself tilted over the little annoyances snapping at people you care about, burning mental energy on trivial inconveniences, you're bleeding chips into pots that don't matter. Meanwhile, the big ones, the things that deserve your attention, your patience, your investment, they're not getting it. When you find those small pots, rather than putting too many chips at risk for those, let them go. Just muck it. Don't invest the energy. Instead, find those big pots you've been underplaying and make a bet. Schedule a doctor's appointment you've been putting off. Start the thing you keep saying you're gonna start someday. Make a real move on a real pot. Because in poker and in life, small pots decide nothing, but big pots decide everything. That's today's one outer and that's today's show. I'll see you next week, a team. And until then, I'll see you at the tables.

[Narrator/Announcer]

The Ante up podcast is a production of anyupmagazine.com contact the show at podcastsyupmagazine.com or call the show at 540-339-7741. If you'd like to advertise, send an email to editoryupmagazine.com if you work in

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