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- [00:00]
A
If you work in university maintenance, Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place, from H vac and plumbing supplies to lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock. So your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRAINGER visit grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.
- [00:30]
B
Take your seat. The cards are flying high. Shuffle up and deal at the Aces Lie longest running show. Yeah, we've seen it all. From the river to the rail, we answer the call.
- [00:50]
C
Hello a team, and welcome back to another episode of the NEF Poker podcast where every hand is an opportunity, every player is a friend, and every episode is a winning experience. I'm your host, Joe Scales and all right, before we jump into everything this week, I've got to talk about what you're seeing behind me. Because if you're watching on YouTube or Spotify video or wherever, you might notice we got some new graphics up on the screen. And this all started because I built the first one myself in Photoshop and it looked great, but it took forever. So I figured, all right, let's see what this AI thing can do. Now. I haven't spent a whole lot of time messing around with AI and I know there are a lot of people out there that are absolute wizards with prompts and get it to do exactly what they want. I'm not there yet, not even close. But I gave it a shot and I asked it to create some vintage poker style signs to match up the one I made and it did a pretty solid job. But and this is where it gets fun, there are some little Easter eggs now in these signs. AI just got a few things a little off. Maybe it's a letter that doesn't quite belong. Maybe it's something that looks a little out of place. You'll catch it if you look close enough. So here's your challenge. When you're watching, see how many of these little quirks you can find and let me know in the comments. I'm curious to see who's got the sharpest eye, but yeah, it's a little strange. This week, also on Table Talk, I'm going to be joined by Dustin and April from Rivers Casino in Schenectady, New York. Really looking forward to that conversation. Getting an inside look at what's happening up there in the poker room. But you'll also notice that Elle is not going to be with me for that segment this week. Don't worry, she'll be back soon. We're just mixing things up a little bit while she's helping with her her stepmom. And speaking of mixing things up, we've got something new and exciting going on. We've joined forces with Eric Morris and Mike Lea over at Bluffers on Club gg. We're going to be running tournaments together and we're kicking things off with a satellite for a seat on our upcoming Alaskan Poker Cruise this August. We'll have more details on that coming up, but I want to throw it out there so, you know, you can all get on to Club GG and get started. I'll put the information about how to get two Bluffers on Club GG in the show description. Also put it in our socials later. But if you've been thinking about joining us on the cruise, this might be the way to get there. That's all I really have for now. So let's get on with the show.
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B
Welcome to the show. You're on the A team. Stack your chips and chase the dream. Joe's got the booth. His mic's on fire.
- [04:21]
C
I usually start this segment with Elle and I are back around the poker table, but we only have one seat on this side of the table this week. We mentioned last week that Elle's stepmom was in the hospital and she had surgery on Saturday, but it's been a long recovery already, so she's with her right now. But I am joined with one of our favorite recurring guests and a new guest, Dustin King with Rivers Casino in Schenectady, New York is with us. And Dustin, who is that you have with you?
- [04:55]
D
This is our new shift manager, April.
- [04:58]
C
Hello. Hello, April, and glad you could be here. Glad both of you could be here. We're going to talk about some of the tournaments that you have coming up. But before we get into the tournaments and the games and what you have coming, I did want to mention I saw online where this is Poker player Appreciation month in Rivers Casino. So tell me a little bit about that.
- [05:24]
D
Yeah. So, you know, here at River Schenectady, we're trying a couple different things in several different departments just to show a little bit of appreciation. Happens to be also in April, we're doing a blackjack happy hour out in the main pits where, you know, one random hour of the day, Blackjacks all pay 2 to 1. We're a little crazy like that. So we're kind of piggybacking a Little bit. For poker, we are offering some comped beverages that we traditionally would not do as comped in the poker room. So all month long, if you're playing in the poker room, cash tournament, doesn't matter, select draft beers, wine and some well liquor. Enjoy reasonably while you're playing at the games.
- [06:09]
C
Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you guys for showing some love to the poker players. I mean there's not a lot of places that'll do that. So thank you guys for that. It's good to see also, I know you guys always have a lot of great tournaments, a lot of great cash game promotions coming up. So what can we expect from you guys coming up?
- [06:31]
D
So coming up pretty soon, April 12th through the 19th, taking the Friday and Saturday off as we usually do, we do have our Electric City mini event going to be the trophy right here. A little hard to see, but you get the idea there with the Electric City logo. So that is going to be our standard tournament. $300 buy in, $50,000 guaranteed prize pool. We'll have five day one flights running Sunday through Thursday. Again a little bit of rest on Friday, Saturday, come back on Sunday for day two. That same day we'll run the $10,000 guaranteed black ship bounty and something new we're going to try by request. We're going to have some single table satellites that run the 12th through the 16th $40 buy in. One person will get an entry into the $300 tournament. So we're pretty excited to see how that works. And then of course, at the end of the month, it is Autism Awareness month. So on the 26th, we will be running the Annie up for Autism charity event. That's a $200 buy in. It's going to be run Survivor style. $40 from each person will go to the charity. Rivers Casino itself is going to donate an extra thousand dollars on top of that. And then of course, anybody who wants to donate, you know, cash to that during the event, we'll make sure that that gets right to the charity as well.
- [07:56]
E
Don't we have a walk for autism that same day?
- [08:00]
D
There is so anybody who wants to be outside and get a little sweaty before they come in and play poker, we do have a charity walk located right around the casino for autism as well.
- [08:11]
C
That's awesome. Of course, Annie up for autism, not directly related to us, but I have talked to them before. They do run a great charity. They have great people working for them as well. So it's great that you guys are doing this and it's great that it's happening during Autism Awareness Month here in April. So we're always talking about bet on better. This is a great way to showcase that. So super happy to see that. We also, we talked about this a little bit last week, but it's been such a weird, weird time with us, you know, all the things happening. But you know, we talked about ESPN is going to be covering the WSOP main event again and for me, kind of a nostalgia moment, you know, it's one of those where so many of us grew up watching poker there. So I love that, I guess. Do you guys think this is going to create more interest from the casual fan or even bring in some new people altogether?
- [09:24]
D
Well, I mean, just thinking about last year when it was on Poker Go. I mean, even in our own room there were people asking us if there was any way we could figure out how to get it broadcast in the room. So I mean, people want to see it, you know, talking about the WSOP final table, you know, for new players, you know, unless someone has told them about it or they happen, you know, to be watching it with someone. I don't know how, how much that does for new people. But of course, you know, people who love this sport, people who want to see the final table and you know, are tired of the subscriptions in our lives and being behind paywalls for even the slightest news story, I think it's, I think it's a very welcoming thing that ESPN will be broadcasting that instead of people having to pay for it. I mean, everybody wants to see these high stakes events and if, you know, if it's something we can broadcast in the room, I mean people are going to love being able to watch that. So I think it's a great. At the final table at least will be broadcast.
- [10:25]
E
I think it's great too. And I think that it's hard not to watch these players play and think I could do that.
- [10:32]
C
Absolutely. And I remember, you know, this year they're going to have a hundred plus hours of the main event that is going to be edited for TV like they used to do, right? And then they're going to live stream that final table. But I remember even I would go out to a bar when I was younger and they would have the main event running on a TV there. You know, it was just like it was everywhere. So I don't know if it's gonna have that same kind of effect. But I, I think it's, it's got to because, because if they do it the way they did before, because it was so personality driven and so story driven. Then I, I feel like it's got to draw people in. Like the. Now it's all about, you know, oh, the gto. This is, you know, breaking down the analysis in a super nerdy way, so to speak.
- [11:39]
F
But.
- [11:41]
C
But now I feel like this is, this is gonna bring it back into the mainstream in a way that I'm hoping we do. See, those people want to try the game again, you know, and in some places they'll be able to jump online and do it, but like New York doesn't have online, right? So they're going to be coming out and trying it at a, whatever, a 12 table or 13 table, whatever it is there. So I think it's overall, it cannot be bad for poker, right?
- [12:20]
D
I mean, more access is always good, you know, and that's, you know, especially poker. I mean, we all know that it's not the boom that it was when Moneymaker, you know, won the wsop, right? So, you know, when you have these sites and this content that is constantly getting locked behind a paywall, I mean, we want new people to have ways to see it, to have access to it, and not feel like it is such an elite, prestigious event that they don't even want to try it. Right. I mean, I've been in, you know, many poker rooms and it's always the same. You have someone kind of walk up to. To, you know, to the front of the room, to the door, to the desk, and they just kind of look around like a groundhog, you know, just kind of seeing what's going on. And then, you know, the moment you try to engage them and say, hey, you know, come on in. They're like, oh, no, no, no, this, this is too much. You know, so, you know, we definitely want content to be available. Stuff that's interesting, easily accessible. You know, we want people to be able to feel comfortable, you know, stepping in wherever it is, and, and Right. Try it out.
- [13:27]
C
Right? And then on the other end of that spectrum, you've got more rooms that are shutting down. And I'm not talking about the lodge necessarily, because that's a whole different kind of situation there. But March 30, we had the Resorts World Poker Room shut down. Earlier in the year was Planet Hollywood, and we've seen, you know, other ones slowly getting pushed out. So since I have you guys here, then I can ask the question, what's, what's the key? How do you keep a healthy poker room? What do you see on the Ground there.
- [14:09]
D
So, you know, we talk about some of these rooms closing in Vegas. You know, Vegas was a huge tourist spot. We see news stories all the time about how, you know, Vegas just in general, not as many people are traveling. You know, we get it. You know, I mean, plane tickets are expensive, you know, shows, food, all that stuff. And, you know, of course, we have a lot more regional casinos these days than we ever have. You know, we're also getting more and more legalization of online poker and online casinos and online sports betting in all the different states. So it's almost as if, you know, there's fewer and fewer reasons that you have to go to Vegas if you want to gamble, you know, know you want to play any of this stuff outside of major events like wsop. I mean, that's where it is, right? So people have this opportunity to play in other locations, and they are, you know, so for Vegas, the competition is fierce. You know, you have a lot of rooms. So as you get fewer and fewer people who want to go and play in those rooms, it's going to start to consolidate. I mean, that's. That's just the nature of the business. That's the nature of any business who has a lot of competition. But still, in the regional poker rooms, you know, where there's not a room every couple blocks, you know, it's important to, as you said, make it a good room. So, of course, you know, we have cash games, tournaments, promotions, all of those types of things to focus on. But even more importantly these days, that wasn't necessarily the focus, you know, 10, 20, 30 years ago is customer service. You know, it really comes down to how does your staff treat the guests that are coming in, how does the staff treat each other? All of that stuff is in view these days. You know, you can go to any poker room and play 1, 2, 1, 3, no limit, hold them. You know, whatever it is, it's largely all the same. Most of the rules these days are the same. The experience of the game itself is the same. What we're really looking at is making sure that we have dealers who are excelling at their craft, managers who are understanding of how to treat the guest, treat the team at the same time. You know, know the rulings and know what to do in a sticky situation. You know, making sure people are having fun, making sure the rules are being followed and enforced in a friendly way. You know, at the same time, you know, we talk about, you know, kind of negotiating with the players.
- [16:42]
E
You know, yeah, we try to give them what we want what they want. We have to negotiate with them inside of our regulation framework, inside of our budgeting limitations. But if they want bomb pots, we're going to try to give them bomb pots. If they want higher stakes games, we're going to try to provide those for them. If they don't like the promotions we're running, we'll change it up. We'll give them something new. We're starting this month the King's Ransom promotion. Promotion.
- [17:11]
D
Yeah. So, you know, for example, you know, you want to have a mix of like high energy, you know, a lot of money, promotions. So I'll give you example of two that we're going to try this month and see what happens. So actually leading up right to our Electric City event on the 11th of this month, we're going to do a promotion called the $500 frenzy high hand. Noon to midnight for the first part of it. So noon to 8 we're going to be doing $500 every 20 minutes and it'll roll over up to $1,000. So you know, those are promotions that are some quick opportunities to hit some big money. If it doesn't hit, make it even bigger, try to really reward the people who come that day and hit a high hand from 8 to midnight that same day, it'll be every half hour instead of every 20 minutes. So but for 12 hours out of the day, all the high hands are going to be worth either 500 or a thousand dollars. So you try stuff like that. And then on the same token, you want to do promotions that also reward your loyal players. So we have a promotion that we started yesterday called the King's Ransom. It's a weekly promotion. Players will get a ticket for every hour that they play. And then the following Thursday at 6pm we're going to draw out of those tickets players who are in the room playing to come up to a board that we've set up at the front of the room. It's a display case with 54 cards in it. And they get to pick a card. The goal is to find the King of Hearts. The king of hearts will give out the jackpot. That jackpot is starting at 500. But every week that someone does not find that king of Hearts, that jackpot is going to go up 500. So you know, 54 cards could go on for quite some time before someone finds it. The goal is that that builds up to some something exciting, you know, worth playing all week for and then coming in to see if you get to be drawn and, and draw A card. So the prizes start at $100 if it's a numbered card. But you know the goal is just to do things that are new, exciting, change it up, don't let it get stale, give people something to talk about and don't just make it, you know, all we do is high hands and it's the same amount every day. You know, yes, it's money, people like that but sometimes it's nice to keep things freshened up a little bit. So you know, for a successful room combining all those things, offering a healthy mix of tournaments for all your ranges of players. We just started once a month a hundred dollar buy in tournament for people who maybe just kind of want to dip their toe in. And we have all the way up to 500 tournaments for the people who want to play for the bigger money, the bigger prize pools know and can afford that. So it's, you know, as with everything in life it really comes down to a healthy balance and just making sure we're taking care of the guests.
- [20:05]
C
I always look forward to these mini electric city. I haven't made it down to one that's not during our any up tour stop but I it you would be amazed at how many times making a road trip has come up in this house. Like we, we have not made it yet but we, we're just going to show up one day. You're going be like oh he, you guys made it. I'm always looking forward to those. And then you know, we, we love the room. I know that you guys do a great job with all of these promotions and whether it's cash game or tournament, I know, I know everybody's gonna love what's coming up.
- [20:47]
D
Well we can start marking the calendar already for September 14th to the 27th. So those will be the dates of
- [20:54]
C
the tour stop, 14th through the 27th and then we will be there. We will have you on again before then to talk about all of the details of that but I know it's always a fun slate of, of tournaments. We will, we will get through this one and then we will have you back on and we will be talking about that soon. Dustin, April, so glad you guys joined us this week. Help me get through it when I'm short one here.
- [21:28]
D
So I mean as much as a pleasure it is speaking to you, we do miss your, your beautiful hat.
- [21:35]
C
Well she will be back next week and she will be here when, when you join us again. So other than that, you guys have anything big planned this weekend? You guys getting out? I don't know what the weather's been like in your area now. Is it at least nice?
- [21:52]
E
Rainy? It's very rainy.
- [21:55]
D
No, I'm. I'm looking out the window at gray skies and looks like some rain is coming again.
- [22:01]
C
Well, at least it's not cold rain, I guess.
- [22:06]
D
I think it's also.
- [22:06]
C
Never mind. All right. Good job. No, seriously, I hope you get to enjoy some weekend activities. We are. We do have some. Some people coming into town this weekend, so we'll get to enjoy a little bit. Looking forward to that. Anything you guys want to add before we sign off?
- [22:30]
D
The only other event just to be aware of before the September event, We will have another one of these mini events in July. So maybe if you and Elle want to start planning a road trip now, that'll be the one. Come up and enjoy some, you know, upstate New York summer weather.
- [22:47]
C
Done. We gotta do it. All right, you guys, thank you again, and we'll talk to you soon.
- [22:55]
D
Thank you, Joe. We'll see you later.
- [47:24]
C
Elliot Schechter joins us each week to say how he would rule on situations that come up in your games. And he's with us again this week. Elliot, how's it going?
- [47:33]
G
Things are going pretty nicely. Joe, how you doing today?
- [47:36]
C
Not too bad. Not too bad. I'm playing around with these graphics behind me. You put a new one in for call the floor. It says when the rules get fuzzy, we don't.
- [47:49]
G
Very nice. I hope to bring clarity to things. We'll see how we do.
- [47:54]
C
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we've got an opportunity here with. And I am the worst when it comes to names, but I think this is Elin Tanner, Ellen E L I n. How did you say it? Okay, well, he's got a hand of the week. That is a situation that he says just didn't sit well with me. I'm curious how the floor should handle it. He says there are two players at the table who clearly know each other. At one point, one of them busts his stack. Instead of going to the cage or pulling out his wallet, his buddy just casually reaches into his own stack and hands him chips right there at the table. No dealer says anything. No floor is called. The game just keeps going. He said that already fell off, but then it got worse when they ended up in hands together. There were a couple of times where one of them would make a big bet. I guess everybody would fold. Then he would kind of lift or angle the cards in a way that the other player could clearly see them. He said it wasn't super Obvious, but obvious enough that a few of us at the table started looking at each other like, are we really watching this right now? It never turned out. Turned into a showdown between them. No big confrontations, just this weird vibes and what felt like soft play or at least the potential for it. So he says, my questions are, is it against the rules for one player to give chips directly to another player at the table like that? And if I'm a player at the table, is it reasonable to ask the dealer or floor to separate them? And at what point is it the dealer's responsibility to bring this to the attention of the floor? What should the floor actually do? So he says he's curious how you'd rule on this.
- [49:58]
G
Wow, that's a whole bunch of things to discuss.
- [50:01]
F
Yeah,
- [50:04]
G
yeah, these are pretty good questions. Let's start with the first question, which is the most basic. Yes, it is absolutely against the rules for one player to just give chips to another player from their stack that's in play. That is distinctly a violation of table stakes.
- [50:28]
C
Right.
- [50:29]
G
Which protects the game by keeping money in play and preventing people from siphoning off their winnings and not giving everybody else a chance at the chips. This is in direct contravention to the spirit of table stakes, and it should not be allowed. Why nobody spoke up is beyond me. I mean, that's the kind of thing that I would immediately be calling the floor for, whether I was dealing the game or sitting in as a player. That's just not allowed and not Right. So, yeah, feel free to speak up. It's okay. Especially when it comes to very, very standard rules, which should be the same across the industry. So, yeah, that's not allowed.
- [51:19]
C
Right.
- [51:19]
G
Plain and simple.
- [51:21]
C
And I think the tables were.
- [51:22]
G
Oh, yeah, we all decided. Yeah, we all agreed he could do that. It's like I'm. And as the floor, I. I basically tell them I'm not swayed by your ability to use democracy to overcome actual rules of the game. Yes. We didn't vote upon these rules. These rules were agreed upon with the regulatory body that exists and set down. You're sitting in the game is your consent and agreement to these rules. And voting at a table does not disregard any rule you see fit to. To set aside just because it helps one or more people.
- [52:06]
C
This is different than somebody reaching in their pocket and pulling out, you know, either cash or chips from earlier, whatever, and handing them to them. Right. This is. This is.
- [52:20]
G
It's distinctly different.
- [52:22]
C
This is.
- [52:23]
G
I mean, if somebody had 400 in front of them and and gave 200 to somebody else at the table. His exposure to the rest of the table in an all in bed is 200 less. So it makes a huge difference.
- [52:38]
C
Right. The, the, the second one is, is something that's, that's really interesting to me. Is it reasonable to ask the dealer or floor to separate them?
- [52:54]
G
And, and this is a question that probably should have been asked a little bit later. This is a pretty important issue, but let me address the next question first. Hate to answer these out of order, but the order doesn't seem right here. At what point is it the dealer's responsibility to bring this to the attention of the floor? It's the dealer's responsibility immediately when obvious rules violations are occurring, the floor needs to be alerted and brought to the table. This gives the floor more information with which to decide whether they need to ask players to leave or play at different tables. So, yeah, let's not put the cart before the horse. Yeah, let's get things in the correct order. Yes, you need, if somebody's giving chips to somebody, if somebody is exposing their cards to one or more players intentionally or consistently or both, that needs to be brought to the attention of the floor as soon as possible. The dealer needs to speak up too and say, sir, please, you're holding your cards in such a way that other players can see them this way. You're addressing it very generally and you're protecting all of the players at the same time with that question. So more statement, please. Hold your cards in a way that better protects them. This way, other players don't see we can keep the game on the square. People won't inadvertently be able to act on information they really shouldn't have. Yeah, keep it as general as possible. If that has no effect, you got to call the floor right now. There's no two ways about it. And then at that point, the floor has decisions to make. Do they ask the players to leave? Do they separate the players out? If I'm a player at the table, is it reasonable to ask the dealer of Florida to separate them? Well, the dealer can't do that. Obviously the dealer's not making decisions and dealer's not telling people where to play. Their job is to deal the game and conduct it as fairly as possible while they're dealing. But I've always written into my rule books, everywhere I've been, that the house or casino retains the right to ask any two or more players to play at separate tables in the interest of fairness. This generally applies to close family members, married couples, partnerships, people Obviously. Or not. So obviously playing softly against each other or other forms of more overt collusion. So, yes, the house has the right to do that. Should a player be able to ask. That's a tough one. The player can make the case that these players are soft playing and colluding. And at that point, the house needs to decide whether they need to separate them or force them to leave.
- [56:14]
C
Right.
- [56:14]
G
I mean, as a player, you can ask anything, but doesn't mean you'll. You'll get what you want, and it doesn't mean that the house can act on it without at least a semblance of some information. And generally, these are the kind of conversations you want to have away from the table unless you start pretty intense and ongoing arguments or even worse while the game is going on. So, yeah, you can certainly bring it up with the floor, but yeah, do it away from the table and present the case. Just don't make a vague statement saying, yeah, I think they're playing with each other. That doesn't help us.
- [56:51]
C
Yeah. And I don't know that he's even asking to separate them on other tables. Obviously, that's the best scenario where you move them to another table and then they're not able to play against each other at all. But even moving them so they're not sitting right next to each other to be able to show their cards would be a huge step here. You know, move. If they're in seats one and two, move one of them to seat six or whatever.
- [57:21]
G
Theoretically, that sounds good, but if you're gonna separate them, you gotta separate them. You can't let them play in the same game. Seating at the table matters. And at least for people who can't see well or people who can't hear
- [57:36]
C
well,
- [57:39]
G
some people like to sit next to the dealer. Some people like to sit at the ends of the table like they're heading a banquet. Some people like to sit directly in the middle so they can read the flop better. Really have a tough time telling people where they can sit at a table, but it doesn't mean you can make them not play at a different table. So, yeah, moving. Making them move seats at the same table is a much less practical thing in reality.
- [58:08]
C
Well, that makes sense. I mean, the only. The only way that. That maybe that might be the option then would be if there wasn't a seat at another table.
- [58:18]
G
Well, then, tough, one of them gets to sit out and enjoy other wagering options or dining options while the other plays. But if they've consistently shown behavior that would have us decide to not let them play at the same table, then that's the way it is. Just because there's one game doesn't mean. Oh well, yeah, we've decided that they have to play at separate tables, but since there's not another game for them to play, we'll let them play in this instance. No, that's not acceptable and that should never occur.
- [58:48]
C
Right. Well, ultimately the, the, the theme here I think is speak up. Whether it's away from the table or, and, and by speak up, I don't mean call the player out at, you know, hey, you can't do that. But at least,
- [59:13]
G
yeah, don't do that.
- [59:20]
C
You know, get, get the floor involved. Ask the dealer to call the floor if he's not already. If you are a dealer in that situation, you've got to make sure that you are being diligent in keeping the game fair as well. Please.
- [59:34]
G
If you're a dealer who listens and watches to this particular segment, please be an active part of the game. That doesn't mean speak a lot. That doesn't mean interject yourself into every situation. But the game should not be coming to you. You are supposed to be dealing the game. You are not just there as a bystander or as an onlooker. You are facilitating the game. So be a part of it and be active in enforcing these very basic rules.
- [60:09]
C
Yeah, and I'll say this, you know, in our time at Gila river, this, the past 10 days, you know, while we were there, the dealers did such an incredible job of keeping the game flowing and still having fun with the players. You know, it was a good community room and so everybody was having fun with each other and it didn't slow the game down. And you know, that's, I even had a conversation with one of the dealers and he was, he was talking about the difference in dealing for the cash games and dealing for the tournaments because you know, you can get away with, with playing around with the players and stuff, but in a tournament, you know, it is, it is strictly deal and be quiet.
- [61:01]
G
Yeah, well, you got the clock running. It makes a difference. But my hat's off to the entire team over at Gila river then I'm glad they take the two most important things very seriously. Obviously a well run game and a fun game. So. Good. I'm glad to hear it. Well done, guys.
- [61:23]
C
Yeah, absolutely. And Ellen, thanks for sending this in. This is a great one. Some really good topics there, some really good questions. So I appreciate you sending those in. And if anyone has a call the floor that they would like to know how Elliot would rule, send it to podcastnetmagazine.com Elliot, we'll see you next week.
- [61:45]
G
Looking forward to it.
- [61:57]
C
Welcome to Hand of the Week where Patrick, our resident fish and I dive into listener submitted hands each week. We tackle everything from questionable bluffs to hero calls and the hands that make you scratch your head. Whether you're looking for strategy tips or you just want to see if you would have played it any better, we've got you covered. Patrick, how's it going?
- [62:18]
F
I am pretty good, my friend. Yourself?
- [62:21]
C
Not too bad. Not too bad at all. Better than probably you.
- [62:27]
F
Don't say it. Don't say it. Don't say it.
- [62:30]
C
Not looking great.
- [62:32]
F
You know what, we just needed to spot every one a few games. We decided to win opening day, you know, and do the. Do the Red Sox way, You know, spot everyone a little bit of a gap. The way that I look at is we're only four games back after six.
- [62:48]
C
I was, I was told to remind you of the Red Sox record and sitting atop of that division is your nemesis. So yeah, I mean, I'm not going to say their name either, but just pointing it out.
- [63:10]
F
Listen, I don't know what we were doing down in Houston. I don't know if the trash cans are back. I don't know what they're.
- [63:15]
C
What they're doing, but the trash cans are back.
- [63:17]
F
The trash can might be back. Yeah, I. Listen, the way that I'm looking at this as a. A tried and true Boston fan, the Bruins are on an absolute hot streak leading into the playoffs where you've got a 99.2% chance of making the playoffs. So I'm gonna finish out with hockey season and then we can address the Red Sox here soon. So until further notice, I will not taking any questions or comments about the Red Sox.
- [63:45]
C
I love it.
- [63:46]
F
All right, that's official statement from Annie out podcast in the hand of the week.
- [63:52]
C
Speaking of, speaking of that, what do you think of this graphic behind here? I gotta tell you, it's phenomenal in the man cave. It's what we do.
- [64:00]
F
I mean, I can't think of anything better.
- [64:02]
C
Yeah, I. I probably spent too much time playing with that, but. But I had fun with it. Hey, we have a hand of the week this week. It's sent in by Jack Christensen and he says, got a hand for you from a 25 cash game. Everyone involved is sitting around 700 effective. So we're dealt ace of spades. King of spades on the button. Oh, I'll handle that. That's nice. He says under the gun, who has not played a hand in two entire orbits, suddenly wakes up and raises to $15. Hijack calls, cutoff calls, and the action is on us.
- [64:58]
F
We're gonna make him pay. You gotta pay to see it.
- [65:03]
C
Yeah. So this is interesting because, you know, this guy hasn't played a hand in two orbits, finally wakes up. So where, where are you putting his range right now?
- [65:16]
F
I mean, clearly, aces, kings, queens are probably there. Definitely similar to us, I would imagine. Is something suited. Ace, king, ace, queen, king, queen, queen, jack. Anything suited is probably there.
- [65:35]
C
Okay, what about jacks or tens? Do you think he can go that far down?
- [65:39]
F
Depends on if he's getting antsy, I guess. I mean, if you're sitting there getting antsy. So, yeah, I, I would, I would probably. I mean, it's still within my realm of, of where he could be.
- [65:48]
C
Okay. Similar to you, I think we have to narrow this field. So how much are you thinking?
- [65:54]
F
It's going to be large.
- [65:56]
C
Okay, do tell. You.
- [66:02]
F
Yeah, I, I'm gonna go, I'm, I'm gonna go 40.
- [66:08]
C
Okay. And maybe no, 50.
- [66:10]
F
Larger. 50. 50. I can't do simple math. I can't do simple math.
- [66:20]
C
Didn't react well to that.
- [66:23]
F
Yeah, that was, that was actually a twofold. Here's, here's the take on that. That was a twofold reaction of a. Your look and being me finishing out doing math in my head as I did that. So, you know, 15. You're going higher. Actually, you're going 60.
- [66:39]
C
That's my initial thought was to go 80, and then I backed it down to 60. So.
- [66:44]
F
Okay, yeah,
- [66:49]
C
maybe under the gun won't even be able to withstand the pressure. So.
- [66:54]
F
Yeah, because three times, three times it's 45. And then you got to add some for the other caller. So, yeah, 60. I like that.
- [67:01]
C
50 to 60. And I also want to go big enough that we may avoid a 4 bet from under the gun as well.
- [67:11]
D
Oh, that's pretty cool.
- [67:12]
C
And that's, that's why I started to go with the 80, but I did back it down. So I put in 60. Jack says, okay, so I just call and then he has dot, dot, dot. Yeah, I know. Go ahead and yell at me. No yelling here.
- [67:40]
F
That's like a week. No, that's like a little kid. You know, I. Maybe from example, maybe not a four and a half year old, you know, coming to you with something that's broken. Tears in his eyes and, you know, already apologizing and, and you can't really scold him after that, so. Yeah, no, no scolding, no yelling here, Jack. When you know, you know.
- [68:03]
C
Yeah, yeah. But he says the blinds do fold. So we go four ways to a flop with $67 in the pot. And the flop is Ace of hearts, jack of hearts, 10 of diamonds. And under the gun leads out for $35. The hijack calls and the cutoff folds. Action on us.
- [68:39]
F
Ace of hearts, jack of hearts, 10 of diamonds. Well, on the one hand, top pair, top kicker. Don't love a, don't love a flush draw. I think given jack's hand, I'm coming over the top and I'm going to find out a lot from our friend under the gun. So 35 double to 70. I'm going 100.
- [69:10]
C
Okay, we're. We're in the same boat. I was thinking I wanted to come over the top as well. I went a little higher. I went 120. Okay, but same idea. I think under the Gun has a lot of aces, kings, queens, jacks, tens in his range, but they also have some two pair hands like Ace, Jack, Ace, 10. You know, he could also have like Jack 10. Although, yeah, it's not out on the rim if he didn't play hands for two orbits and then comes in Jack 10 seems less likely to me. But maybe
- [69:53]
F
take this with a grain of salt.
- [69:54]
C
Queen is a straight.
- [69:56]
F
Yeah. King, queen is a straight. You've already gotten there. Take this with a grain of salt too. If, if under the Gun is anything like me, after, you know, and orbit, I, I tend to get a little bit antsy and play some hands that I maybe not should. So, you know, if it's anything like me not giving it away, any trade secrets, so. Yeah, but you're right. King, queen's already there, so you gotta have that one in the back of your head too.
- [70:20]
C
Right. But we can represent king, queen here as well because that's got to be in our range for sure. I think the reason that I want to raise though is because there's hands like what Queen 9, 9, 8 that are open ended. And I don't want to give them a free card, so that's where I'm going. If they raise us after we raise them, then we reevaluate from there. Jax says we've got top pair, top kicker, but this board is gross. Straights, two pair, pair plus draws, everything is out there. I decide to just call here. I figured I'd control the pot and then he says, again, again, feel free to roast.
- [71:20]
F
Well for everyone that's not watching this. I just went hand to forehead Jack, you clearly know better. You're right. There is pot control. And I did think about that as the. As you know, Joe was reading off the flop. I'm like, okay, well, 67, that's pretty good pot control, you know, for, you know, forehanded. So, you know, there's that. Plus I was trying to. I'm a glass that full kind of guy. So I, I think you're setting yourself up for potential disaster by. By calling a second time. But.
- [71:52]
C
All right, I. I think the biggest thing here is even pot control. Fine. But even if they have us beat right now, we have outs, right? So I think we've got to not give them the chance to realize any more equity without making them pay for it. So anyway, that's where we are. We. We now have $172 in the pot. And the turn is the queen of spades. I like that.
- [72:29]
F
I do like that. I like that a lot.
- [72:33]
C
So the board reads ace of hearts, jack of hearts, 10 of diamonds, queen of spades. And he says, my first thought was, well, that's not ideal. Now any king makes a straight. Then I was like, oh, wait, we have the king. So he actually got there with Broadway. But also any king gives them a straight too. Under the gun checks, hijack checks.
- [73:06]
F
Normally we talk first, but I really hope Jack bets.
- [73:11]
C
Yeah, I'm. I'm hoping he does too, but what are you betting?
- [73:19]
F
Okay, I thought you were about to tell me he checked. Given Jack's hand that we have just called. Call. It's gotta be up there. I'm probably going 100 into 172. Maybe a little bit more, to be honest with you. Maybe closer to 120.
- [73:37]
C
100 was where I was thinking. So we just flip flopped. I put the 120 in last street. You're putting the 120 in this street. That's funny. Here's the thing. We started a story on those first bets, right?
- [73:54]
F
Yeah.
- [73:55]
C
And us putting money in now is, Is changing that story a little bit, but it may actually make it look unbelievable enough that we make some money with it. Under the Gun is definitely streaming, screaming strength. So it's. If we bet here, we should be able to get him heads up. And I think 100 is enough. But I don't have a problem with 120. We charge the draws and hopefully we don't cause any two pair combos to fold. Jack dang. Jack Says, and here's where I think I really messed up. I check it back.
- [74:45]
F
I can already tell you how this is going to play out. I can tell you right now.
- [74:51]
C
Okay, what's your, what's your under the gun?
- [74:55]
F
Under the gun is sitting on like jacks or tens and the board's gonna pair. That's what's gonna happen.
- [75:05]
C
Okay, mark that. That's the prediction from, from, from Patrick.
- [75:11]
F
Oh, man.
- [75:12]
C
He says my thinking in the moment was hot control and keep worse hands in. But in hindsight, I feel like I missed value and more importantly, protection, because the river is another queen. The river is the queen of clubs, to be exact. So with the same hundred and seventy two dollars in the pot, the board now reads ace of hearts, jack of hearts, 10 of diamonds, queen of spades, queen of clubs. And under the gun leads out for 150. Joe, can I count on.
- [75:51]
F
I bet he does. Can you, can you count on just one hand how many times you folded a straight?
- [75:58]
C
Yeah, it's not, not an easy lay down. And I, I actually, I want to call so badly.
- [76:05]
F
I would. If I'm sitting in jack shoes. I'm, I'm calling because I gotta see it.
- [76:11]
C
Are you?
- [76:13]
F
Yeah, I am. I'm not, I, I, I don't have it in me yet to fold up straight, but I.
- [76:22]
C
Here's the problem. You're staring at a boat. Possible boat. Yep. Against the tightest guy at the table who hasn't played a hand in forever, and he's firing a big bet on a paired board.
- [76:35]
F
So that or he's got queens. That's my other thought.
- [76:40]
C
You think he made quads here?
- [76:42]
F
I mean, he, if he's sitting on queens, he checks. Well, he checked after the turn. Maybe not queens, maybe just the boat.
- [76:56]
C
Yeah. What, what did he, what did he
- [76:58]
F
lead in with this? We'll do what, what did he, what, what did he bet here?
- [77:03]
C
150.
- [77:05]
F
So basically pot.
- [77:09]
C
Yeah, a little less than pot, but basically pot. Okay, first of all, this spot sucks, but it's our own fault for, for being here.
- [77:17]
F
Yes.
- [77:19]
C
We needed to be more aggressive in this hand and we just let them get there. Let's break, let's do this. Let's break down what they can have. We just said I don't think queen, queen. Because they, I don't think they would have slowed down on the turn.
- [77:35]
F
Correct. I agree with you there. I agree.
- [77:38]
C
Pocket aces could have gotten scared of the straight, right?
- [77:42]
F
Yep.
- [77:43]
C
Pocket kings. Not likely because they, I don't think those would have Slowed down either pocket jacks, pocket tension, maybe. Maybe they had the A set on the flop, got worried of the straight on the turn, and then boated on the river. Okay. Going back to his bet here, it was basically pot, which means we need to be. It wasn't quite pot, so we need to be somewhere around 30% of the time to. Of winning here to be profitable. And I just don't think we're. We're going to pull that off against a knit and, and this board run out and betting pattern. I just don't see it happening. Even though I, I want to call so badly, I don't think I can. I have to fold.
- [78:41]
F
Well, that's good on you. I can. I listen. Sitting here with you in the, in the man cave handle the week, I can fold because I know what's coming. But in the moment, I'm calling. Like, if I'm sitting at that day, you're not. No way. I snap call knowing full well that I may or may not be calling to my death.
- [79:03]
C
Yeah, yeah. He says I tanked forever, but this just felt like a full house. Folding a straight here feels gross, but I had to do it. I pushed my hand into the muck, and immediately the hijack says, I folded. Ace, queen. I bet he means the cutoff says, okay, yeah, that's what it has to mean. Cut off immediately says, I folded. Ace, queen. That seems like an interesting fold, though, even with it being the cutoff. You have top pair, second kicker. If we believe him, I feel like I need to believe him because he was so excited to say it. Like our hand. It sounds like our hand didn't even hit the muck before he yelled that he folded. Ace, queen.
- [80:06]
F
Right.
- [80:08]
C
So now he. Jack says, so now I look at the under the gun and say, well, that makes me think I got bluffed. Show the bluff under the gun shows one, and he turns over a jack. Could he have had ace jack there for two pair and got me off the best hand?
- [80:32]
F
No, he had the other jack. He had the other jack.
- [80:38]
C
What a great card to show, though.
- [80:40]
F
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. If I'm sitting there, I, I'm feeling very good about myself as the end of the gun.
- [80:46]
C
But his question here of could he have had ace jack there for two pair and got me off the best hand? I think you're actually asking the wrong question. Whether he had ace, jack or pocket Jacks or Jack 10. It's all irrelevant because the problem in this hand was not on the river. It was caused by all the mistakes on the previous streets.
- [81:12]
F
Correct.
- [81:13]
C
So flatting, flop, flatting on the flop, checking on the turn. We got, we gave him free cards and we got no information. So all of that led up to where we are on that river. So whether he had ace, jack or pocket Jacks or Jack 10, it doesn't matter. We needed to improve in those other spots and we would have felt a whole lot better about where we were on the river. The end of the gun player showed the right. Right card for sure. A little bit for the rest of the session.
- [81:54]
G
For sure.
- [81:55]
C
Well, I, I'll say this. You know, we put this, we put hand of the week out there for people to improve. And there's some spots here that definitely think you need to be looking at it differently. It's not always about pot control. So, you know, sometimes you've got to charge for those, those cards that are coming still. So, yeah, yeah, that's it. It always sucks when you end up having to make a big fold, big lay down like that. But maybe, maybe we don't have to make that lay down. And if we do, we know we laid it down for the right reasons if it's played a little bit differently. So, yeah, Jack, thanks for sending that in. And if anyone has a hand of the week that they would like to know how Patrick and I would play it, send it to podcastyupmagazine.com Patrick, we'll see you next week.
- [83:00]
F
Sounds good. We'll see you then.
- [83:06]
B
From the flop to the turn, we play it. Oh, chasing hard to. And diamonds never fold in the boots. We're dealing stories that.
- [83:20]
C
When I saw that the WSOP main event was heading back to espn, I'll be honest, I smiled a little because for a lot of us, that's where it started, right? Late nights, flipping through the channels and then you stop on a channel watching guys like Chris Moneymaker and Phil Ivey hole cards on the screen. Norman Chad cracking jokes. And somehow this weird game with chips and cards, it pulled me in. It wasn't just poker. It was a feeling. It was possibility. Now, fast forward to today. The game looks a lot different, right? We've got solvers and GTO charts. We've got training sites, HUDs, live streams. Players are smarter and more prepared than ever. The new school has taken over in a lot of ways, and. And that's not a bad thing. That's evolution, right? That's what every game does if it wants to survive. But here's what I think is interesting. Even with all that change, the feeling hasn't gone away. I still sit down at a table and my heart rate still picks up a little. I still peel back my cards, hoping to see something I can work with. I still get that rush when the chips start sliding my way, and I still feel it when they don't. Because underneath all the strategy, underneath all the data, poker is still a human game. It's all about people. It's all about moments. And I think that's why this ESPN thing hits a little different for me, because it reconnects us to where a lot of those moments began. Back when we didn't know what a solver was, back when range wasn't part of our vocabulary. Back when sometimes you just played your hand and trusted your gut. And yes, we are better players now because of everything we've learned. But I don't think we should lose sight of what made us fall in love with the game in the first place. It wasn't perfect strategy. It wasn't optimal play. It was the stories, the personalities, the tension. The idea that anyone on any given day could sit down and have their moment. That hasn't changed. And it won't. Because no matter how advanced the game gets, no matter how many charts or tools we have, you still have to make the decision. You still have to push the chips in or let the cards go. And that feeling, that moment, that's timeless. So, yeah, the game has changed. Old school, new school. They're just different ways of playing the same game. But the reason we keep coming back, that hasn't evolved one bit. It's the same feeling we had the first time we watched it, the first time we played it, the first time we realized this game's got something. And maybe that's the real lesson. Things are going to change in poker and in life. The tools are going to get better, the pace gets faster, the expectations get higher. But if you can hold on to the reason you started, if you can stay connected to what made you love it in the first place, you'll always have something to come back to. Because, yes, the game changes, but the feeling doesn't. That's today's one outer. And that's today's show. I'll see you next week, 18. And until then, I'll see you at the tables.
- [87:52]
D
The Ante up podcast is a production
- [87:54]
G
of antioppmagazine.com contact the show at podcastsyupmagazine.com
- [88:01]
D
or call the show at 540-339-7741. If you'd like to advertise, send an email to editoryupmagazine.com
- [88:14]
C
mom, can you tell me a story?
- [88:16]
H
Sure. Once upon a time, a mom needed a new car.
- [88:19]
C
Was she brave?
- [88:20]
H
She was tired, mostly. But she went to Carvana.com and found a great car at a great price. No secret treasure map required.
- [88:26]
C
Did you have to fight a dragon?
- [88:28]
E
Nope.
- [88:28]
H
She bought it 100% online from her bed, actually.
- [88:31]
C
Was it scary?
- [88:32]
H
Honey, it was as unscary as car buying could be.
- [88:35]
C
Did the car have a sunroof?
- [88:36]
H
It did, actually.
- [88:37]
C
Okay, good story.
- [88:39]
H
Car buying. You'll want to tell stories about. Buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply.