Chapter 4 Ep. 15 Cards and Community

Summary

Ante Up Poker Magazine Podcast

Chapter 4 Ep. 15: Cards and Community (April 24, 2026)

Episode Overview

This week’s episode, hosted by Joe Scales and featuring co-host Elle and guests Patrick, Elliot Schecker, and Dustin King, centers on the vital connection between poker and community. The show blends coverage of recent events and charity tournaments, player stories, strategy, and rulings. Along the way, the hosts showcase the importance of learning new games, building supportive poker networks, giving back, and maintaining perspective through poker’s ups and downs—a theme highlighted by Joe’s motivational closing “one outer” story.

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Table Talk: Rivers Schenectady Recap and Charity Initiatives

(03:00–19:20)

Guest: Dustin King, Rivers Schenectady Poker Room

Highlights:

• Mini Main Event Recap

  • 533 entries, prize pool just under $128,000
  • Michael Amen wins for $24,610, impressively "double bagging" two sizable stacks in three of five opening flights.
    • “Michael made it through three of the five flights with chips.” (Dustin King, 04:18)
    • “Very impressive since a lot of times the double bag bonuses squeak by with a small stack… but he was just under the average chip stack for his double bag.” (Dustin King, 05:20)

• Upcoming Events & Community Focus

  • Ante Up for Autism Charity Walk and Poker Tournament (April 26)
    • Walk in the morning, $200 charity tournament at 12:15pm; $40 per buy-in to charity, Rivers “Riversgives” program adds $1,000 donation.
    • “On top of whatever we collect, our Rivers gives, we'll give $1,000 to the charity as well.” (Dustin King, 07:04)
    • Hosts eager for updates on funds raised and winners.
  • Previous event: Camp One Step charity tournament for children with cancer—raised over $105,000.
    • “Know that if you were participating in that event… all of that goes directly back to the community.” (Elle, 08:02)

• Upcoming Poker Events at Rivers

  • Next Mini Main in July (7/5–7/12), $300 buy-in, $50k guarantee, black chip bounty event.
  • Two $500 deep stack events scheduled for May.

• Poker Room Camaraderie

  • Spontaneous matching of Electric City Polos from Rivers.
    • “They are super… lightweight. They’re so lightweight.” (Dustin King, 09:33)
  • Warm, recurring presence of Dustin King on the show—he’s invited to play in the Ante Up Patreon game.

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Table Talk: Expanding the Poker Community

(11:23–19:20)

Learning New Games

• Hosts discuss the value of stretching skill sets via Patreon games featuring lesser-known variants like Badugi.
  • “That’s why we’re playing it—because we’re learning new variants. We’re stretching our skill set.” (Elle, 10:53)
• Mention of upcoming Badugi tournaments at Talking Stick; shoutout to ambassador Dustin Scarra ("best beard in poker").

Friendly Rivalries and Discord Community

• Updates on Patreon leaderboard competition between Elle and Ben, playful side bet for drinks at a future meetup.
• Emphasis on the supportive, close-knit but active Ante Up Discord:
  • “It has become a community... a support system, too. People have known what’s going on in each other’s lives, good, bad, or ugly.” (Elle, 13:51)

Partnerships and Special Events

• Partnership with Bluffers Poker Community: running satellites for the Ante Up Alaska cruise in August.
  • “This community on their Facebook page is very active… excited to see how those satellites are going to go.” (Elle, 14:40)
• Upcoming Ladies International Poker Series (LIPS) events, including PJ party tournaments and candid Hall of Fame panels.
  • “I love seeing those kind of platforms going.” (Elle, 17:21)
• Announcement: Deepa Shah to be on the cover of the upcoming Ante Up magazine.

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Call the Floor: All-In Showdown Rules

(19:41–30:02)

Host: Joe Scales with rules expert Elliot Schecker

Scenario (Listener question from Greg Jamie):

• Tournament, 3-way to flop. Small blind all in, action checked down to river by players with chips behind. After showdown, only all-in player exposes (winning) hand, others attempt to muck.

Ruling Clarification:

• All hands must be tabled in this scenario because an all-in player went to showdown, and action is complete.
  • “The rule states… that when a player is all in and the action is complete, the hands would be shown.” (Elliot Schecker, 22:12)
  • “How do we know the players are not dumping their chips off to the one player who shows their hand at that point, trying to keep the all in player alive? If one of the other players is trying to muck a winner, that’s a problem.” (Elliot Schecker, 22:37)
• Only if a side pot exists and a player folds to a bet, can they muck without showing.
• Dealers are empowered to enforce this without calling the floor, but ideally should clearly explain the rule.

Key Moment:

• “By entering into a tournament… you are agreeing to the rules in play.” (Elliot Schecker, 27:46)

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Hand of the Week: Bluff Gone Wrong

(30:06–47:20)

Submitted by: Mike Macias

Scenario:

• $1/$3 cash game, $450 effective stacks, Mike in cutoff with 9♠8♠, raises to $12, only big blind calls.
• Flop: K♦7♣2♠ (BB checks, Mike c-bets $10, BB calls)
• Turn: A♥ (BB checks, Mike bets $35, BB tanks, then calls)
• River: 3♦ (BB checks, Mike bluffs $80, BB calls with K♣Q♣)
• Mike has air; bluff fails.

Analysis & Takeaways:

• Both Joe and Patrick agree preflop/flop lines are fine (trying to steal blinds, represent strength).
• Quick BB call on flop signals possible weak pair or sticky player; not a “drawing board.”
• Turn is a good card for representing big hands, but BB’s continued interest after sizable bet is revealing.
  • “Once he called that turn bet, you got all the information you needed. It’s time to just cut bait at that point.” (Joe Scales, 43:51)
• River bluff likely to get called by this type of player; sizing could be even larger, but villain seemed “ready to call anyway.”
• “You started with a good story, but then you pushed it past the breaking point.” (Joe Scales, 43:43)
• Encouragement to learn and file reads for the future:
  • “Make note of how he played KQ… not aggressive, but will call light.” (Joe Scales, 44:44)
  • “Most of the money in 1/3 comes from not spewing that third barrel when the first two didn’t work.” (Joe Scales, 44:05)

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Joe’s One Outer: “The Donkey in the Well” – Poker, Resilience, and Life

(47:20–51:19)

Theme:

• Joe tells the story of the donkey in the well as a life and poker parable, encouraging listeners to turn adversity into steps upward rather than being buried by it.
• Notable Quote:
  • “This game will throw dirt on you… Bad beats dirt, coolers, dirt, misreads, mistakes, second guessing—it’s a whole shovel full of dirt… But we all have a choice. Right? We can let that dirt pile up… or we can do what that donkey did. Shake it off and step up.” (Joe Scales, 47:20–48:14)
  • “Instead of you becoming the victim of what just happened, you become the architect of what happens next.” (Joe Scales, 48:41)

Message:

• Use frustration, losses, and mistakes as fuel for progress—both in poker and in life.
• “Shake it off. Take the next step… and eventually you can pull yourself out of the well.” (Joe Scales, 51:10)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Every hand is an opportunity, every player is a friend, and every episode is a winning experience.” (Joe Scales, 00:18)
• “I made several mistakes, but I would rather make mistakes in a Patreon game and learn from them than make mistakes sitting with real money in front of me.” (Elle, 10:53)
• “The Discord really has kind of all of us there as a group, and… has become a support system.” (Elle, 13:51)
• “When you are running a good bluff, it has to be in the right spot with the right story.” (Joe Scales, 45:38)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:00 – Table Talk with guest Dustin King and event recaps
• 06:14 – Ante Up for Autism charity details
• 09:19 – Poker polos and Rivers room camaraderie
• 10:45 – Patreon/Discord stories, game variety (Badugi)
• 14:40 – Bluffers and Cruise satellites partnership
• 16:47 – Ladies Poker events & inclusion
• 19:41 – Call the Floor (All-in showdown rule deep dive)
• 30:06 – Hand of the Week (Bluff analysis and advice)
• 47:20 – One Outer: Joe’s motivational story

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Final Thoughts

This episode reinforces that poker is about more than cards—it’s about the communities, shared experiences, and resilience at its core. Listeners are encouraged to get involved, whether that’s through charity events, Discord discussions, or pushing personal limits at and away from the table. As Joe’s closing reminds us, the dirt life throws can bury us or build us up—the choice is ours.

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For more:

• Join the Ante Up Discord, check out AnteUpMagazine.com for links to everything mentioned, and send your hands/floor questions to the podcast. (Contact info given at [51:19])

Transcript

[Joe Scales]

Take

[Patrick]

your seat, the cards are flying high.

[Joe Scales]

Shuffle up and deal at the Aces Lie Longest running show.

[Patrick]

Yeah, we've seen it all. From the river to the rail, we answer the call.

[Joe Scales]

Hello, A team, and welcome back to another episode of the Antiette Poker podcast where every hand is an opportunity, every player is a friend, every and every episode is a winning experience. I'm your host, Joe Scales, and obviously if you're listening right now, you already know where to find us. But make sure you share the show with your poker crew. Let them know that they can find us anywhere, that they can get podcasts, even on YouTube. I also know there's a lot going on with Annie Up. Honestly, sometimes I have a hard time keeping up with everything. And that's why I think it's important to join our our Discord. There's always conversation happening there. There's updates, there's events, there's strategy talk. I think it's the easiest way to stay connected with everything going on. Of course, there's also the website. There's antiupmagazine. Com that's always there with quick links to the magazine, the podcast, the shop, Discord, Bluffers, Patreon, anything you need to get to, you can find it on the website. We were actually talking last night during the Patreon game about the new gear in Ante up shop too. I think it's looking good. So if you want to show up to your next home game, repping Annie up, go check it out. We've got hats and shirts, hoodies, stickers, mugs, phone cases, a little bit of everything. And if there's something else you want to see that's not there, let me know and we'll see if we can make it happen. We've got a great show as always for you. We've got a guest joining us on Table Talk, which is why I'm wearing the shirt that I'm wearing right now. Elliot's got another great explanation of a ruling. And Patrick, well, Patrick continues to be a fish, but also with everything that's been going on lately, and I know some of you in the A team are going through some things too. Today's one outer is one that I really think is going to hit home. I promise. It's poker related, but it's also about life. So be sure to stay to the end. Listen to that. And that's all I've got for now. So let's get on with the show.

[Patrick]

Welcome to the show.

[Joe Scales]

You're on the A team. Stack your chips and chase the dream. Joe's got the booth, his mic's on fire. Elle's got the laugh, she's taking it higher. Elle and I are back around the

[Elle]

poker table with Dustin King from Schenectady, New York. Dustin, we have the entrance to your room right behind us and your beautiful building here. How are you? Happy Friday?

[Dustin King]

Great. How have you guys been?

[Joe Scales]

Well, after what we just went through trying to get all this set up, we might need an actual alcoholic one of these.

[Elle]

Yeah, I brought. Listen, you guys know Maker's Mark is, is near and dear to our heart and I love to have an adult beverage just like anybody else. But sometimes you want to have the taste without the bang.

[Joe Scales]

Right?

[Elle]

And a lot of these brands are starting to create na non alcoholic options. And I have been on the hunt for a good one and I'm just going to endorse without permission the Corona Na option. It's awesome. It's a little pricey, but with a lime, it's great. If you get it and you're disappointed that you might have made a decision where you think I would like alcohol? If you add tequila, it's great. So there's your tip and trick to have a fun Friday afternoon. But anyways, Dustin, we're really glad to have you because I believe you've got a recap from the mini main event that just happened recently. Give us all the deets, spill the tea.

[Dustin King]

Yeah, as always, it was a lot of fun. This mini main was our biggest one to date. We had 533 entries. Probably price pool was just shy of 128,000. I think one more person would have made it 128, but it was a great time. You know, five day one flights, double bag bonuses were there. Michael, Amen did take it down. First place, he took home $24,610. Congratulations, Mike. If you're listening to this, congratulations. What's more impressive though is I mentioned double bags. Michael did it not only once but twice. So Michael made it through. Yeah, Michael made it through three of the five flights with chips. His main stack that he took forward was 513,000, but his double bags, 211,000 and 174,000. Very impressive since a lot of times the double bag bonuses squeak by with a small stack, you know, 20,000, 40,000, 60,000.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Dustin King]

But I mean, he was just under the average chip stack for his double bank. So that's, that's huge.

[Elle]

Well, way to go Michigan, Mike, because we, we remember you well from taking down a mixed game back In September at our tour stop. We look forward to seeing you again this September.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, I was going to say, speaking of which, we will be back there and we have our dates confirmed. We'll be back there. What is it? September 14th, I believe.

[Dustin King]

Yeah, 14th through the 27th.

[Elliot Schecker]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

So we're looking forward to that. And you guys have. And this month you guys have another event that I think is really cool because we love this Bet on better. Yeah, you've got this ante up for autism thing going and I think you guys have a walk or something with that as well. But tell us a little bit about that. I know you, you spoke about it last time, but. But I just can't. I can't promote this enough.

[Dustin King]

Yeah. So there is an antio. I'm sorry, there's an autism walk on the morning of the 26th. We sponsor that. Some funds.

[Elliot Schecker]

Water.

[Dustin King]

You'll have a bunch of Rivers employees participate to volunteer throughout the walk. Some of them participate in the walk. Some of them will be at water stations handing out water. So they'll all be in riversgibs T shirts. You know, we're out there just to assist. And if you have any questions about the casino or anything, you know, we're there for that. But immediately following the walk at 12:15 is going to be the Annie up for Autism Poker tournament. So it's a 200 tournament. $40 from every buy in will go directly to the charity. And then it's a survivor style. So 1 in 10 will win $1,250. Of course, you know, if people wish to donate beyond the $40, we'll collect all of that and make sure to donate that to the Autism Society. And on top of whatever we collect, our Rivers gives, we'll give $1,000 to the charity as well.

[Elle]

That's awesome. Please keep us posted on those numbers. We would love to shout them from the rooftop and share in our socials. And I mean, of course we always want to know who took down the win, but more importantly, how much you guys raised. And we're betting on better because that's such a significant charity to be contributing to.

[Joe Scales]

Right, right. It doesn't stop there. Like, we, we love bet on better. So we just wrapped up with our bounty, Bob Popper over at the Camp One Step charity tournament. We got the final numbers for them. They raised over $105,000 for sending kids with cancer and their families to camp.

[Elle]

Yeah. Which is huge. And I can't remember the number that that will equate to, but know that if you were participating in that event or if you want to participate in another one, that's actually coming up as well. All of that goes directly back to the community. And the way in which those funds are used is they're able to go to virtual camps or in person summer camps, or in person ski camps or art camps. It's not just what we used to think of as summer camp. It's really meeting everyone's needs right where they are. And I'm so glad to hear that Annie up for Autism will be doing that as well. Because it sounds like to me that organization knows what the needs are and where the funds need to go. And that's why we love to, to partner with, with organizations like this because they're there in the trenches. They know where the need is. So any other things happening in Rivers?

[Dustin King]

Well, we are already looking forward to July where we will have the next mini event, which will be July 5th through the 12th. Same setup, $300 buy in, 50k guaranteed. Followed by the black chip bounty on day two at 5:15pm which is always a big one.

[Elle]

Any of those bounty events in Schenectady get a little exciting?

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Dustin King]

I just noticed we're all wearing the same shirt and we didn't even talk about it.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

Thank you for pointing that out, Dustin. Yeah. These are the Elect City Polos that we love. They're super. They are super. How do you explain this material?

[Dustin King]

Lightweight. They're so lightweight.

[Elle]

Yeah, but it's warm. It's not.

[Dustin King]

It's warm, it's comfortable. I love these polos.

[Elle]

Yeah, they're fantastic. I think they're the Nike brand. So maybe it's that dry fit material. Yeah, it's the dry fit, but super, super nice. And yes, that was definitely not planned. But we love to sport our electric city gear anytime we can. So thanks for including us in that. For sure.

[Joe Scales]

Right?

[Dustin King]

Absolutely.

[Elle]

We gotta get you in our Patreon game, man.

[Joe Scales]

Send a link.

[Elle]

We gotta. Because this, this, this, this game is getting crazy and we played badoogie last

[Joe Scales]

night and we Gotta shout out USC 1991 because he got his second win since joining from the good karma seat.

[Elle]

I know he's. And he's starting to get a big target on his back.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

Is what he's doing. He's worked his way up the leaderboard and now we're all after you.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. Yeah. Last night it got to be heads up against tni and I would love to say that it was some kind of back and forth heated battle. No, he Just kicked my butt.

[Elle]

Just wiped out. He just wiped you out?

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, yeah. He came in with a pretty good chip stack, and I could not compete with that at all.

[Elle]

Well, and, you know, we've gotten some feedback here and there, like, why are you guys playing a badoogie? When does anybody ever play badoogie at casinos?

[Joe Scales]

True.

[Elle]

You know what? That's why we're playing it, because we're learning new variants. We're stretching our skill set. I made several mistakes, but I would rather make mistakes in a Patreon game and learn from them than make mistakes sitting with real money in front of me. A competition. Still competition. Not minimizing that, but it is a great way to learn new variants of the game. Enjoy learning and participate in something you normally don't get a chance to do very often.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, and we were talking about in the. In the discord group, I guess Talking Stick is having a badoogie tournament or it's part of their mixing tournament. And so, you know, it was a chance to kind of sharpen your skills a little bit before you get into it.

[Elle]

Well, then we need to reach out to Dustin Scarra, our ambassador and poker beard.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

Who has been killing it in Talking Stick lately. Do you. Have you seen Dustin? This guy who's voted the best poker beard or the best beard in poker. Have you seen him?

[Dustin King]

I haven't seen him.

[Elle]

It's legit. It's legit because I can see it from across the room at Lone View. And he walked up and I was like, hey, man, nice beard. And he was like, I just got voted number one beard and poker. And I was like, well, I can

[Dustin King]

see why he's like, I know.

[Elle]

Yeah, I know.

[Dustin King]

Exactly.

[Elle]

If you don't know who he is, you'll know him by his beard. He usually his card protector. I'm gonna get this wrong. What's the hammer of Thor? Is that what it is? Is that Thor's hammer? Yeah, he usually is sporting that, so. Well, I'm glad to hear that Talking Stick is including that because it's a fun game. I enjoy it.

[Joe Scales]

And I noticed how you were trying to switch to the topic already, but we're not getting out of here without talking about Ben has officially jumped over you in the leaderboard.

[Elle]

It's probably because I didn't play last week.

[Joe Scales]

No, it's probably because he did well in the badugie last week.

[Elle]

Oh, I think it's because I did play last week. I think we're just gonna. Anyways, Ben. Ben. I'm still Coming for you. I am not buying the first round of drinks.

[Joe Scales]

There is a side bet between one of our Patreon members and Elle.

[Elle]

And because we plan to see each other later this year, so we had to have something on the line. You know, there's always something that you got to be working towards, so that's fun.

[Joe Scales]

And that's kind of what this whole Discord community is all about, is just ribbing each other, having a little bit of fun there.

[Elle]

Banter.

[Joe Scales]

You know, it's. We. We get emails, we get texts, we get people contacting us in. In various different ways. But that Discord really has kind of all of us there as a group, and it's laid out to where they can talk about the podcast or the magazine or. Yeah, whatever. And so, yeah, I would like to just encourage everybody, whether you play in the disc, whether you play in the Patreon game or not, jump in the Discord. Because it's a lot of fun there.

[Elle]

It is. I mean, just like any other channel that you would join, it has become a community. It's small enough, but big enough at the same time that we have a lot of good conversation about the Hands of the week or what somebody saw in a casino recently or, I don't know, whatever. But also, it's. I feel like it's become a support system, too. I mean, people have known what's going on in each other's lives, good, bad, or ugly.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Elle]

And that's been really neat to kind of see how that's just grown naturally. And it's because of what people are putting into it. It's kind of like, Dustin, it reminds me of you. I always love to talk about how much you like to play uno. Your UNO group probably has done this because you play, you commit to meeting every week, right? Is it every week?

[Dustin King]

It's not so much weekly anymore, but we still play when there's nothing else to do.

[Elle]

Yeah. And you keep up with each other. One other community that I want to highlight is the Bluffers poker community. And we have a partnership with them coming up to run some satellites for the cruise that we're headed out on in August, the Alaska cruise. Again, can't stop. Won't stop talking about it. If you want to join any of those satellites, make sure you go to antioppmagazine.com and click on the Bluffers banner to sign up. And let me tell you, this community on their Facebook page is very active. They do an awesome job highlighting all of their players, not just winners, but also newcomers. And I'm really excited to see how those satellites are going to go. You don't even have to just play our satellite. There's tons of ways to get involved.

[Joe Scales]

There's ways to get into the LIPS tournaments, and.

[Elle]

Yeah, lots. Lots of different. Lots of different activities there. We do still have rooms available.

[Joe Scales]

Yes. So if you don't have anything to do August 11th through the 21st, we have something for you.

[Elle]

Yes. And not to mention, we do still have somebody looking for a roommate. If you want to go on the cruise and you need a roommate, he's awesome. I can vouch for him for sure.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

So let us know. Or. Or call Don and sign up and let him know, hey, I'm happy to be a roommate with somebody who wants to go. Another question that we get often is, does everybody who sign signs up have to play poker? Like, if my partner, my friend, whoever is coming with you doesn't want to play poker, do they have to? No, It's a floating city. They can do whatever they want to. To do. And you don't have to be in the poker room all the time either. You can pick and choose. As soon as those event calendars come out, we'll let you know and you can plan your trip. But there's so many things to do.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. If you're looking for something right now, you were sharing some of the pictures from the lips. What is it? The Spring festival, I think it's called.

[Elle]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

At South Point.

[Elle]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

First of all, there was one of the events where everybody was in their PJs.

[Elle]

Yeah. Women like to do fun things together. So the ladies events, I know sometimes people feel like it's exclusive, but Ladies International Poker Series, their spring festivals this week is South Point. And, yeah, they're doing all sorts of crazy stuff. The winner of a huge event, and she's gonna kill me for forgetting the event. But Jamie Kerstetter had her hot dog glasses on because, you know, she plays with a group called the Hot Dogs, so.

[Joe Scales]

Oh, that's right.

[Elle]

You are always gonna see something wild and wonderful. But they also had a really cool. I thought this was a neat way to brand this. They had a. I think it was, like, stars, a stories and a slice. So, yeah, the past hall of Fame, the Women's hall of Fame, they had a panel of six or seven women from the hall of Fame, and you got a slice of pizza, and you got to hear stories, and it was really candid. I heard from a lot of people that were in the audience that it was Just really wonderful. And so I love seeing those kind of platforms going. Lupe is a force to be reckoned with and is doing great things for women in the poker space, for sure. And speaking of women.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

Deepa Shah is going to be on the COVID of the magazine this month,

[Joe Scales]

which we're working on this weekend. We got a lot of work to do this weekend.

[Elle]

We do.

[Joe Scales]

So keep an eye out for that with Deepa on the COVID and some of our antics there in Arizona.

[Elle]

Yeah, that's for sure. Dustin, any other poker news? Exciting stuff you'd like to add?

[Dustin King]

As always, we know summer is coming, but next month in May, if you're looking for some larger tournaments, we do have two of the $500 deep stack events. Those are on Sundays, so come and join us for that and practice and gear up for the mini event in July.

[Elle]

You got it.

[Elliot Schecker]

Perfect.

[Elle]

And we look forward to hearing about that event for autism coming up in April. So thanks again for joining us. We always love to see you have you on. And if you have not been to Rivers Schenectady, please go, go, go. And go into this entrance because it's the closest to the poker room.

[Joe Scales]

And I know we had a few technical difficulties last time we had you on, and we weren't able to get that on YouTube. And we started. We started with a few this time, but we got everything going. It was very good to see you. And we'll get to. Everybody will get to see his face this time.

[Elle]

That's true. As always, guys, it's a pleasure being around this table with you.

[Joe Scales]

Likewise.

[Dustin King]

Same.

[Joe Scales]

Dropping true bombs with a poker parade. Big blinds, big stakes, raise it up.

[Patrick]

Let's make no mistake.

[Joe Scales]

Elliot Schecker joins us each week to say how he would run situations that come up in your games. And he's with us again this week. Elliot, how's it going?

[Elliot Schecker]

Things are going pretty well. How you doing, Joe?

[Joe Scales]

I'm doing well. You know, it's. It's a. A great season to be a sports fan, too, because you've got so many different. You've got hockey going on, you've got basketball going on. Baseball's happening. We actually, Patrick and I, on hand of the week last week, we talked about masters stuff, and we're actually invited to go out and play in a charity tournament in Florida, which.

[Elliot Schecker]

Oh, very nice.

[Joe Scales]

I don't think anybody wants to see me swing a golf club. But

[Elliot Schecker]

it's for a good cause, though.

[Joe Scales]

It is for a good cause. That is true. And we'll see. It's it is a scramble, so maybe, you know, I can use somebody else's ball most of the time.

[Elliot Schecker]

Absolutely. Should be fun, though.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. But, hey, we have a call to floor this week that's sent in by Greg Jamie, and he says in this situation, it looks like it's a tournament. Blinds are 5 and 10,000. Big blind has a stack of about 500,000. Okay, under the gun calls 10,000. And it folds to the small blind, who goes all in for 100,000. Big blind calls. And under the gun calls three ways to the flop with one all in. The two players with chips behind check it down so there is no side pot. Small blind, that's all in shows pocket aces. Big blind says, that's good. And mucks under the gun also mucks. And the button says, hey, you have to flip both of those hands over. And the dealer flips them over. He says it's because of the all in. But only one player is all in. Not everyone. So what's the ruling here? He says. Greg says, I don't think showing is required at that point. The play is between big blind and under the gun. There could have been side action, but there wasn't. So what happens in this case?

[Elliot Schecker]

Well, the player on the button is correct. The rule doesn't state that when a player is all in and then another player is all in, then you turn the hands over. The rule states, and I'm paraphrasing here, that when a player is all in and the action is complete,

[Joe Scales]

then the

[Elliot Schecker]

hands would be shown. Well, since there were two more betting rounds and they checked all the way through, the last check on the river completes the action. In that case, all these hands have to be shown simply because how do we know the players are not dumping their chips off to the one player who shows their hand at that point, trying to keep the all in player alive. If one of the other players is trying to muck a winner, that's a problem. And that's why the rule exists in the first place. So showing these hands is pretty necessary. This is. This is not a case where player A bets. Player B calls, and then player A surrenders because they are bluffing and have no chance of winning. And they are allowed to surrender, especially if both have chips. This is an all in player who saw the cards. And again, we have the added element of the all in players, Two opponents, what appears to be purposefully checking it down in order to increase their chances of both eliminating them. So showing the hands here has even more good purpose than allowing them to merely muck to what is supposed to be the winning hand.

[Joe Scales]

Would this be different if, let's say small blind, big blind show their hands, big blind ends up winning that and the under the gun player knows he can't win. Is he allowed to muck at that point?

[Elliot Schecker]

If either the small blind or big blind are all in and the action's complete and under gun was in for all of the action, they are not permitted to muck without showing their cards. Without them being table.

[Joe Scales]

It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter who has the winning hand at that point. It is just if there are three people in the hand and one of them is all in, everybody must show if it gets to the point, the

[Elliot Schecker]

completion of the action.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elliot Schecker]

So generally that's why we show the cards before the river is out. When one player is all in and one player calls and that closes the action out because nobody else is in the pot, those cards come up then. So this principle is merely delayed to the end of the hand because there are three players, not two, and there is still potential action between the two players who are not all in. But the rule doesn't change, it just adapts to the circumstance.

[Joe Scales]

And if there were that side pot, then one of the, you know, if one of the players bet, the other one could have folded. That would have been the only way to not show that hand, right?

[Elliot Schecker]

That is correct. The action was not complete and therefore nobody had to show. And with the side pot being awarded to an uncontested. Better. Yeah. The other player who folded out gets to fold out gracefully and anonymously.

[Joe Scales]

So because of the two players that had the possibility of creating a side pot, because they checked it down is the reason that they have to show, basically

[Elliot Schecker]

they made it to the end of the hand.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elliot Schecker]

And one of. One of the players is all in.

[Patrick]

That's.

[Elliot Schecker]

That's all that matters. Everything else is, is merely extra detail and information. But the basic salient facts haven't changed. A player is all in the hand proceeded as normal action was completed. We are now determining the winner amongst the all in and non all in players. The cards must show.

[Joe Scales]

So it's not handled the same as if it were just three players in a hand. And one of them shows because. Because there's an all in, there has to be all three of them shown. And because the two players decided that they were trying to knock out said all in player.

[Elliot Schecker]

And that's more of an assumption true, not an actual fact and evidence.

[Joe Scales]

That is true. But I mean, we've all been there.

[Elliot Schecker]

Yes.

[Joe Scales]

We've all seen that play out before. So more than likely that is the case. And I don't, I don't know why in that case it would be that big of a deal to, to show your hand. Everybody knows, you know, in those kinds of situations, everybody knows that you are, you are up against a player. That's all in the, you're. You're going to play your hands differently than, say, other situations at the table. So you're not, you're not really giving away like some kind of secret code.

[Elliot Schecker]

A lot of people are still wary of giving away the least little bit of information at any chance. So, yeah, there are still people who are hesitant to show their cards if they feel they don't have to. The problem is the rules are fairly explicit and by entering into a tournament and sitting down and playing, you are agreeing to the rules in play.

[Joe Scales]

I notice in this they didn't call the floor over to have him tell them to flip their hand over. The dealer did it. Is that okay? Would you, Would you? Yeah.

[Elliot Schecker]

In generally, this is. Unless you're at the feature table or you're at the final table or close to hand for hand, you're not going to be in a spot where the floor needs to come over and have the players turn their hands over. People go all in and lose all the time. This is always handled by the dealer, especially in large fields. It's just that simple. So, yeah, the dealer needed to be reminded here to complete their tasks in the hand. It's still valid. And it's okay that the dealer did this.

[Joe Scales]

Perfect.

[Elliot Schecker]

The dealer probably should have spoken up and explained the rule at least a little bit, if not all of it. But yeah, this is fine. And the dealer at least got their job done as opposed to just ignoring it. Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. Well, Greg, it sounds like all in all, everything played out as it should. And like you said, Elliot, the dealer had to be reminded to complete the task, but he completed it as he should. And so no harm, no foul there. And Greg, I appreciate you sending that in. Uh, absolutely. I know I've had similar situations at the table to this, so it's always a good reminder for, for everybody to, to know how this is supposed to play out. So I appreciate you sending that in. If anyone has a call to the floor that they would like to know how Elliot would rule, send it to Podcast magazine. Com. Elliot, we'll see you next week.

[Elliot Schecker]

Looking forward to it. I'll see you then.

[Joe Scales]

Patrick's a fish, but he's learning in this hand might be his last. Welcome to hand of the week, where Patrick, our resident fish, and I dive into listener submitted hands each week. We tackle everything from questionable bluffs to hero calls and the hands that make you scratch your head. Whether you're looking for strategy tips or you just want to see if you would have played it any better, we've got you covered. Patrick, how are you?

[Patrick]

Pretty good, my friend. I, you know, another week, another day.

[Joe Scales]

Are you, are you one that like, allergies really bother you or. No.

[Patrick]

So when it was hot last week, it was all over the place. Me and actually my, my little guy. I mean, I, I wouldn't say I necessarily have allergies, but I don't mind taking it, you know, when it's flying around or, you know, you wash your car at 6:30, 7:00 clock at night, and then you wake up the next morning to go to work and you get a cup of coffee and it's like yellow. Yeah, those days I'm. I'm sneezing a little bit, A little, you know, a little watery eyes, but you know, it's, it's cold now. It's cold this week, so. But yeah, I. It'll hit me. Not hard, but it'll hit me.

[Joe Scales]

I, I still feel like the allergies are, are rough. Everybody around me is like dying with allergies. So I, you. I know what you're talking about with the car because I think it looks like I'm driving a neon yellow car at this point.

[Patrick]

Yep, that's about right.

[Joe Scales]

But yeah, the allergies are rough right now, but we have a hand of the week sent in by. And I'm gonna probably not get this last name right, but it's Mike Macias, I think. And he is playing 13 at his local room. He has about $450 to start the hand. And the villain in this hand has him slightly covered and has been playing what he says I'd call thinking wreck poker.

[Patrick]

Translation? Thinking wreck poker.

[Joe Scales]

He says he hasn't been out of line, but definitely not looking to get too crazy without a hand thinking wreck poker. Okay. He says, I'm in the cutoff with the nine of spades, eight of spades, and it folds to me.

[Patrick]

Well, I'm going, I'm going 10.

[Joe Scales]

Okay.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. My immediate thought was, let's steal some blinds.

[Patrick]

There we go. Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

And if anyone calls, we still have a lot of things that can go in our favor. Right. I was thinking 10 to 12. So you're right. There. In that same range, if we get called by the blinds, I want to still continue on a lot of flops. Mike opens to $12. The button folds, small blind folds, and the big blind calls. Nice.

[Patrick]

Okay, there we go.

[Joe Scales]

So with $25 in the pot, the flop is king of diamonds, seven of clubs, two of spades, and the big blind checks.

[Patrick]

Okay, check right back. Move on.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah,

[Patrick]

let me make sure I heard that right. Let me make sure I heard this right. King of diamonds, seven of clubs, two of spades.

[Joe Scales]

Yes, that's exactly the flop. And I just said before that that I was gonna continue with most of those flops. I think we can represent a lot of kings here. Sure, Ken.

[Patrick]

That's true. So that.

[Joe Scales]

That actually hits more of our range than it does what they may be defending with. So I think I'm putting in another $12.

[Patrick]

Okay.

[Joe Scales]

And Mike says I make a standard c bet of $10. And he calls pretty quickly. It's interesting that he called quickly. A quick call to me usually means it's a draw of some kind, but this is not a drawing board. So maybe he has the seven and wants to try to grab a second pair as well. I don't know. The quick call is interesting. Mike says at this point, I'm putting him on a lot of king X, some middle pair hands like 7X, maybe some sort of pocket pairs like eights, through tension and the occasional float. But now there is $45 in the pot, and the turn is the ace of hearts. So the board is king of diamonds, seven of clubs, two of spades, ace of hearts. And the big blind checks again.

[Patrick]

Well, playing Mike's hand, if we're going to continue here, you got to continue to represent big, and you're trying to get them to fold at this point. Is that a. Is that an accurate strategy there, Joe?

[Joe Scales]

Well, let me ask you. Let me answer your question with a question.

[Patrick]

I love those people.

[Joe Scales]

If we continued on the flop, now, the ace falls. What story are we telling here? Are we saying we flopped two pair or flopped a set?

[Patrick]

We had ace, king. Now we just got two pair.

[Joe Scales]

Okay, I think this is where we can check back, but I don't have any.

[Patrick]

Let me ask you a question. Is there any card in the deck that comes out on the river to where you call a bet?

[Joe Scales]

No, probably not.

[Patrick]

Okay, we're checking.

[Joe Scales]

I don't feel comfortable. I don't feel comfortable with hitting a 9 or an 8. I. My hope is that we can just check all the way through. But if they fire on the river. Then I can let it go. And great job. Congratulations.

[Patrick]

All right, we're on the same page. I'm good.

[Joe Scales]

Mike is in a different camp. He says this felt like a great card for me. I've got all the strong ace x hands in my range. And it's a pretty bad card for a lot of his one pair holdings like king X or 7X. So I decide to fire again. This time $35. He tanks for a bit and then calls. So now he says I'm starting to second guess things. Feels like he's either got a stubborn king, maybe a weak ace, or a pocket pair. That doesn't believe me. Now, there is $115 in the pot, and the river is the three of diamonds. So the board is king of diamonds, seven of clubs, two of spades, ace of hearts, three of diamonds. And he checks a third time.

[Patrick]

Well, you got one of two scenarios here, Joe. Either this is the late scene of rounders and you just check chick, chick,

[Elle]

chick, chick, chick, chick.

[Patrick]

And he's sitting on ace, king, and you could fire back at him and get him, you know, he's gonna love you and he's gonna call a snap call or come over top of you and you're done. Or you just check and just be done with it.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, that's where I'm at. I gave up on this hand already.

[Patrick]

I don't think Mike's doing that, though. I got a feeling. I don't know yet. But you. Mike's not doing that

[Joe Scales]

well. Mike says so here's the spot. I've got complete air, no showdown value. But I also feel like this run out is way better for me than him. I can have ace, king, ace, queen, maybe even sets that I slow played. From my perspective, his range looks capped at one pair. A lot of the time he bets $80.

[Patrick]

No, it's gotta be bigger.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. I mean, he already called twice. Yeah, right.

[Patrick]

I think you're going pot or more. I think if you go too far above, then you just scream. You just write bluff on your forehead. But I think if you snap back right here for a hundred or one hundred fifteen, probably. Probably be close to the pot bet. I. I think then. Or even 120, maybe 125. I think it's like a. All right. If you come on like you don't want to do this.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, I. Like I said, I think the biggest problem that I have is he called twice already.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

And so I don't know that he. I feel like he's Going to be sticky with even one pair or something like that. So Mike says, my thought process was, if he's sitting there with king, queen, king, jack, or even something like eights through tens, then this should be a really tough call. I'm repping a strong ace or better, and I've told a consistent story. But after about 20 seconds, he shrugs and tosses in a chip. He tables the king of clubs, queen of clubs, and says, I didn't believe you had it. So he says, here's my question for you guys. Was this a good bluff in theory, that just ran into a guy who couldn't fold, or did I pick a bad spot to try and push him off of a hand? Should I be sizing differently or maybe just shutting it down on the river? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and whether I lit $90 on fire, $80 on fire, and made the right move that just didn't get through this time.

[Patrick]

Would you like me to start or you.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, yeah, you go ahead.

[Patrick]

I'll go ahead. Similar to last week, I think there's a lot of yeses to all these questions. Yes. Did you light $90 on fire, Mike? Absolutely, but we all do. You know, it happens. You get caught up in the moment.

[Joe Scales]

Yes.

[Patrick]

I think you should be sizing if you're going to run the bluff, which. Listen, everyone that plays against me or plays in the Patreon game, just close your ears right now. I like doing. I like living on the edge. I love it. I think it's fun. I think it's stupid at times. No, me. I'm only speaking for me because I don't know how to do it correctly, but I'm getting better at it anyway. Yeah, I think your sizing is better. Although I think the telltale. Correct me if I'm wrong. Over here. They're pro. Is when you. When he bet 35, when the ace came out on. On the turn and he bet 35 into 45 and got called, I think that's where you're like, you know what? Either my man's got something that's really never gonna fold, or, you know, he's got a stick up him that he's like, you know what? I don't believe this guy's got it, so he's gonna keep calling you. I think that's when you probably need to question it, because I think that sizing was okay. And I think at the end of the day, I think if you size up. I think if Mike. I think if you sized up on the river from 85 to, like, what I was saying, like 1:15 or 1:20. It sounded like the villain already had your number, and he was probably going to call you anyways whether he liked it or not. So I think the turn was the telltale. And then you just kind of, you know, hey, it was a good try, and then you run.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. I think you started with a good story. I know you mentioned that you. You told a good story throughout, but I think you started with a good story, but then you pushed it past the breaking point. Your aggression was good early. I like that. But to your point, Patrick, once he called that turn, bet you got all the information you needed. It's time to just cut bait at that point.

[Patrick]

I was gonna say tuck tail, but whatever you want to call it, because that's what I normally do, I just duck tail and walked away.

[Joe Scales]

Look, these spots sting. I know they do, but they're also great for learning. Most of the money in 13 comes from not spewing that third barrel when the first two didn't work. So, yeah, just at this point. Now make note of how he played. King, queen. He called down, but he didn't get aggressive. He didn't raise. File that away. Know that he's capable of calling light with one pair, but he's not super aggressive. And use that to your advantage in other hands. That's.

[Patrick]

Yep.

[Joe Scales]

That's all I can say. It's. It's a good hand. You know, like I said, you didn't really play it badly until the river. I think the river is where you made the mistake. And so just learn from it. And thank you. Thank you for sending that in. That's. I love. I. I love the. The talk about the mental side of it, because that's really what a bluff is. When. When you are running a good bluff, it has to be in the right spot with the right story. You know, so many things have to add up and. And align for it to be a good bluff. Right.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

And so I love talking about these. These kinds of situations. So thank you, Mike, for sending that in. And if anyone has a hand of the week that they would like to know how Patrick and I would play it, send it to podcastneupmagazine.com Also, Patrick.

[Patrick]

Oh, I don't want to hear it.

[Joe Scales]

You know, you went from. You went from greatness to crash and

[Patrick]

burn back back to the golf terminologies. It's like the movie Tin Cup. You know, it's a.

[Joe Scales]

It's a.

[Patrick]

It's a finely tuned athlete on the verge of greatness. I had a defining moment, and the defining moment was shit. So, look, we're gonna be back. I. Listen, I gotta. I got a month to go. I'm coming back. I'm coming back strong. That was not as fun as last month.

[Joe Scales]

So when you. When you talk a big game, when you win that you know or do so well as you did last time, then you can't have a showing like that to follow it up. I mean, come on now.

[Patrick]

Yeah, yeah. Look, I own it. I was here, I was feeling aggressive. I. I thought it was, you know, I. There's a lot of. A lot of soul searching to be done between now and next month. But I'm coming back. Don't you worry.

[Joe Scales]

All right. All right. We're. Look, we'll be looking forward to it. All right, we'll see you later, man.

[Patrick]

See you, buddy.

[Joe Scales]

Have you ever heard the story of the abused donkey? Basically, there's this old donkey that falls into a really deep well. It's narrow and it's steep and just really has no way out. The farmer who owns the donkey looks down at it and decides it's just. It's not worth the effort to pull him out. So instead, he grabs a shovel and he starts throwing dirt into the well with the intention of filling it up, donkey and all. Now, at first, the donkey panics. The dirt hits his back, and it falls all around his legs and it starts to pile up. You can imagine how this donkey feels, right? This confusion as to why the farmer would be doing this in the first place. And then this moment where it seems like this is just how it ends. But then the donkey has an idea. Every time dirt hits his back, he shakes it off and steps up over and over again until eventually the same dirt that was meant to bury the donkey becomes the thing that lifts him high enough to climb out and walk away. It's a great story, but I bring it up because it's really a story about every one of us who has ever sat down at a poker table or even tried to get through a tough stretch in life, really. But from the poker standpoint, this game will throw dirt on you. Bad beats dirt coolers, dirt misreads, mistakes, second guessing. It's a whole shovel full of dirt. And sometimes it doesn't come one scoop at a time either. One hand after another, one session after another, and you start to feel like you're stuck in that well, looking up, wondering how you got here. But we all have a choice. Right? We can let that dirt pile up, let it sit on our shoulders, let it turn into frustration, tilt bad decisions, and before we know it, we'll be buried. Or we can do what that donkey did. Shake it off and step up. Not ignore it. Not pretend it doesn't hurt. Because that river card does still sting. That lost pot still matters, and that mistake is still yours to own. But instead of you becoming the victim of what just happened, you become the architect of what happens next. That's how we keep improving. Not by avoiding the dirt, but by learning how to use it. Every mistake becomes a lesson, and every tough session becomes a step. If you choose to treat it that way, shake it off and step up again and again. And over time, those moments that felt like they were burying you become the things that build you into a better player and, honestly, a stronger person. So when those tables turn, when the cards don't cooperate, when life throws you a little extra on your back, just remember that donkey in the well. Shake it off. Take the next step, and then the next one, and then the next one. And eventually you can pull yourself out of the well. That's today's one outer and that's today's show. I'll see you next week, a team. And until then, I'll see you at the tables. The Antioch Podcast is a production of

[Elliot Schecker]

Antiop magazine.com contact the show at podcastsyupmagazine.com

[Patrick]

or call the show at 540-339-7741.

[Dustin King]

If you'd like to advertise, send an

[Joe Scales]

email to editorneupmagazine.com this is the story of the One as a procurement manager

[Elle]

for a hospital system, she keeps every

[Joe Scales]

facility in her network stocked and ready. That's why she counts on Grainger to be her single source for thousands of products, from disinfectants to lighting, air filters, and more. And with fast, dependable delivery, Grainger helps her keep every facility stocked, safe, and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickranger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.