Chapter 4 Ep. 2 Perspective

Summary

Ante Up Poker Magazine Podcast

Chapter 4, Episode 2 – "Perspective"

Date: January 23, 2026
Host: Joe Scales
Featured Contributors: Elle, Patrick, Elliot Schechter

Episode Overview

In this week’s episode, host Joe Scales is joined by frequent co-host Elle and friends Patrick and Elliot for a lively, insightful, and humor-tinged discussion blending poker strategy, community anecdotes, and real-life reflections. Key segments include Table Talk (with a spotlight on mixed games and an 88-year-old poker heroine), Call the Floor (navigating tricky dealer decisions), and Hand of the Week (analyzing a complex cash game hand). Joe caps the show with his signature “One Outer” monologue, reminding players to keep perspective on poker’s true long game.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Tour Announcements and Community News (00:41–03:09)

• Joe opens with updates on winter weather, upcoming live tours (Arizona in March, Schenectady in September, Las Vegas in December), and satellite events for the Ante Up tour.
• Joe (00:48): “Every hand is an opportunity, every player is a friend, and every episode is a winning experience.”

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2. Table Talk: Mixed Game Woes & Wins, The “Big Blind” Debate, and Poker Inspiration (03:09–28:39)

Poker & Fitness: Staying Sharp

• Elle and Joe humorously reflect on exercising after playing online Raz. They talk about the importance of intentional scheduling for both health and poker focus.
  • Elle (04:23): “You’ve got to take care of your body so that you can concentrate when you’re at the tables too.”

Online Mixed Game Recaps: Raz & Deuce-to-Seven

• “Big Sexy” (community member) finally wins a Raz event. Elle confesses to confusion between Raz and Deuce-to-Seven Triple Draw, compounded by fast online play.

  • Elle (06:29): “I had a really hard time distinguishing Deuce to Seven Triple Draw and Raz… it was going quickly and you can only fold so many times before you have to have some type of action.”

• Bounty story: Elle unknowingly KO’s the bounty player, learning only after.

  • Elle (08:31): “So embarrassing… I wasn’t going after the bounty. I was just playing my game.”

Getting More Mixed Game Reps

• Joe and Elle discuss the challenges of finding mixed games outside special festivals and home games.

Good Karma Seats Update (10:27–11:43)

• “Good Karma” seat winners (Patreon members get free games; added prizes for winning tournaments, courtesy of Ben Minch).
  • Elle (11:03): “Hello, challenge flag thrown! Who’s participating?”

The “Big Blind” Calculations Rant (11:43–17:18)

• Elle’s frustration with “big blind” stacks misrepresenting actual orbits to survive, especially when accounting for big blind antes.
  • Elle (13:17): “You have to pay a big blind ante, so you’re saying to me that you have 15 big blinds when really you may have seven.”
  • Joe (14:31): “The reason we have a big blind ante… is so only one person puts it out—simplifies things, but doesn’t change the cost per orbit.”
  • Both debate if “big blinds” is outdated terminology (Elle is adamantly in favor of orbits as a truer measure).

Poker Hero: Linda Hammonds, Age 88 (17:18–21:57)

• Heartwarming story about Linda, an 88-year-old who entered a major tournament at Beau Rivage “by accident,” finished 14th in a mystery bounty, and charmed the entire poker world.
  • Elle (17:40): “She’s my new hero… because she walked into the Beau Rivage Casino… and said, ‘I’ll just go upstairs and see what’s happening up there at 88.’”
  • On Linda’s classic attitude:
    Elle (19:31): “They asked her, ‘Why are you in this tournament?’ [Linda:] ‘Well, I paid to get in.’ Simple, straightforward.”
  • Linda’s focus & personality (“I’m not getting rid of these [red fingernails] to chip shuffle!”), and the poker room’s celebration of her result.

Fun Stories: Quirky Restaurant Concepts (21:57–28:39)

• Elle describes restaurants in Banff, Canada, with tables connected by landline phones (call other tables with questions), and “Park & Pour” pubs in Columbus, Ohio (mobile Irish pubs).
• Light-hearted imagining about team building and creative uses for such places.
• Weather humor closes the section: prepping for a possible “2 inches or 32 inches” of snow (27:54).

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3. Call the Floor with Elliot Schechter (28:39–41:02)

Dilemma: When a Player Folds a Winner at Showdown

• Scenario (30:56): In a charity rebuy tourney, Player B folds to a river bet, but tables a full house face-up while opponent shows a flush. Dealer (Dave Miller) hesitates but mucks the hand, then wonders if he should have acted differently.

• Elliot’s Ruling (33:52):

  • Player’s verbal fold is binding; not at showdown yet, so dealer shouldn’t prompt a double-check.
    • Elliot (35:36): “You only get one action per betting turn. So that was it... not at showdown where announcements are disregarded.”
  • Dealer shouldn’t acknowledge what player had or read the hand; no-shame hesitation but best to muck promptly.
  • One player to a hand is paramount; other players stayed quiet as is proper.
    • Elliot (36:56): “We’re only responsible for our own feelings.”

• Joe draws comparison to the Phil Ivey “folds a flush” TV hand (39:11), clarifying the contexts differ.

• Fun discussion on the friendly, sometimes chaotic nature of charity tournaments.

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4. Hand of the Week: $2/$5 Cash Game Set vs. Flush (41:02–67:57)

Setup & Preflop

• Listener Ed Shelton submits a hand from a Friday night $2/$5 cash game.
• In position (hijack), Ed has 9♠9♦. Two limpers before; Ed raises to $30.
  • Patrick votes for aggressive $40, Joe prefers the more “mathy” $30. Ed chooses $30.
• Button, cutoff, and a limper call — four to the flop.

Flop (10♣ 9♥ 6♣, $127)

• Ed flops middle set.
• Patrick and Joe agree on sizable value bet ($75–$85). Ed bets $75. Two callers.

Turn (8♣, $352)

• Scary card (completes possible straights/flushes). Limper checks.
• Patrick: “I’m taking my foot off the gas and checking.”
  • Both discuss flatting or calling in position if facing a bet.
• Button bets $220; limper folds; Ed calls (after running the math).
• They run through equity, outs, and “no set, no bet” wisdom.

River (2♦, $792)

• Board: 10♣ 9♥ 6♣ 8♣ 2♦. Ed checks. Button tanks, then checks back.
• Button shows J♣ 7♣ for a made flush; Ed loses but feels relief that no further bet came in.

Analysis

• Was folding on the turn possible?
  • Joe: “The math probably said to fold there, but… implied odds and the possibility they could be bluffing make it close.”
  • Patrick: “Sure, you could have [folded], but… I think you played it absolutely fine.”
• All three agree Ed’s line was solid; sometimes, the cards just don't fall your way.

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5. Joe’s One Outer: The Long Game Perspective (68:17–End)

Social Media vs. Poker Reality

• Joe delivers a passionate monologue about poker’s “highlight reel effect” on social media:
  • Joe (68:17): “Poker has always been a long game, but I think a lot of people on social media forget that... One session doesn’t define you. One tournament doesn’t define you. And one bad run doesn’t erase years of good decisions.”
• Comments on how no one shares their bust-outs, downswings, or grind—with a reminder that progress is slow, not flashy.
  • Joe (71:54): “Poker doesn’t reward the best screenshot. It rewards the best habits over time.”
• Encourages listeners to avoid dangerous comparison games and focus on long-term improvement and resilience.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Elle, on big blind confusion (13:17): “You have to pay a big blind ante, so you’re saying to me you have 15 big blinds, when really you may have seven.”
• Elle, on Linda the 88-year-old crusher (19:31): “They asked her, ‘Why are you in this tournament?’ [Linda:] ‘Well, I paid to get in.’ Simple, straightforward.”
• Joe, advice on Call the Floor (36:56): “We’re only responsible for our own feelings.”
• Patrick, football tangent (46:07): “You guys are the Phil Mickelson of the NFL... if it wasn’t for the showy, flashy goons out in KC.”
• Joe, in One Outer (68:17): “Variance doesn’t check Instagram before it shows up. It doesn’t care if you’re due. It just does its thing.”

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Timestamps by Segment

| Timestamp | Segment / Discussion | |---------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:41–03:09 | Tour announcements, snowstorm, community news | | 03:09–28:39 | Table Talk: Mixed games, Raz recaps, big blind debate, Linda’s story, banter | | 28:39–41:02 | Call the Floor: Folding a full house, charity game rulings | | 41:02–67:57 | Hand of the Week: $2/$5 set vs. flush deep dive | | 68:17–End | Joe’s One Outer: Poker perspective and social media wisdom |

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Tone & Takeaways

• Language: Conversational, irreverent, supportive; full of inside jokes but welcoming to casual players.
• Vibe: Mix of strategic depth, relatable confusion, celebration of community, and laugh-out-loud moments.
• Message: Poker is more than winning hands; it’s about learning, growth, embracing the grind, and remembering that appearance on social media rarely matches the lived, long-haul experience.

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For Listeners:

• Tour & Patreon info: Watch your email for Good Karma seat opportunities. Stay tuned for full tour dates on the Ante Up website.
• Hand of the Week, Questions, Floor Rulings: Send submissions to [e-mail].
• Weather advice: Check your pilot light before the snow falls.

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Whether you’re struggling with the math, celebrating small wins, or just trying to keep perspective, this episode delivers both camaraderie and practical advice for everyday players. Poker is a long game—so ante up, and keep grinding!

Transcript

[Elle]

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[Elliot Schechter]

Take

[Joe Scales]

your seat.

[Patrick]

The cards are flying high. Shuffle up and deal at the Aces

[Joe Scales]

Lie Longest Running show.

[Patrick]

Yeah, we seen it all. From the river to the rail, we answer the call.

[Joe Scales]

Hello a team, and welcome back to another episode of the Ante Up Poker Podcast where every hand is an opportunity, every player is a friend, and every episode is a winning experience. I'm your host, Joe Scales. And hey, this weekend I'm going to be spinning that wheel for the new Good Karma seats in February. So keep an eye on your email because if you win, I will reach out via the email you gave me on Patreon. We also have quite the snowstorm making its way across that least half the country, so I hope everyone out there staying safe, staying warm, and maybe getting in a few online hands while you're snowed in. However, with all that said, all this talk of snow and cold has me really looking forward to the upcoming trip to Gila River Lone View in Arizona. The dates are set for March 18th through through the 22nd and they're already starting satellites this month, so there's going to be plenty of chances to get into the main event. We can't wait to see everybody out there. It's been a long time since we've been that far out west and if you're planning to be there, definitely let us know. We're also going to be heading back to Schenectady, New York in September. I don't have the exact dates just yet, but so we're very excited to return there and see all of you guys there again. Also, our championship event will once again be at the Venetian in Las Vegas. This time it's going to be in December. Exact dates still coming on that one as well, but we'll share all of those dates as soon as they kind of come into focus. Right. I'll be getting all of this information up on our website soon, so stay tuned as we continue to build out this year's tour stop dates. We've got a great show for you again this week and that's really all the announcements I Have for now. So let's get on with the show. Find out what conversations are happening around

[Patrick]

the poker table with table talk.

[Joe Scales]

Elle and I are back around the poker table. How are you?

[Elle]

Ready to rumble.

[Joe Scales]

Ready to rumble?

[Elle]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

I don't know what that is.

[Elle]

I don't know if it's this cold front coming in. I don't know if I'm still chipped off about Raz last night, but I am, like, ready to just duke it out or like, I don't know, game on today.

[Joe Scales]

That sounds like trouble for me.

[Elle]

Get stuff done, whatever. Like, just.

[Joe Scales]

There's a difference between I'm ready to rumble with your fists up and I'm ready to get things done. So.

[Elle]

I mean, I could be knocking off stuff on my to do list.

[Joe Scales]

Okay.

[Elle]

I'm not saying I'm coming after you.

[Joe Scales]

Knocking me out then. That's good.

[Elle]

No, I'm just spicy.

[Joe Scales]

I was worried for my life.

[Elle]

No, no, no, no, no. Don't even start stirring that pot at all. Absolutely. No, not. Okay.

[Joe Scales]

I did start working out, so, you know, maybe.

[Elle]

Yeah, but you're sore. You can't even get off the couch.

[Joe Scales]

Last night after the Raz game, I was like, oh, I'm not sure I can get up.

[Elle]

Yeah, you had to readjust, which I was like, whoa, I'm glad I didn't join you in that work.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, it's been a while since.

[Elle]

That's okay. We're both back at it.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

And it feels good.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, it does.

[Elle]

Like being more intentional.

[Joe Scales]

We talk about this all the time in poker and whatever you've got to. You've got to take care of your body so that you can concentrate when you're at the tables too.

[Elle]

Yeah. And I think we just found if we don't schedule it, we don't do it right. And we don't need to be hyper scheduled. But just like maybe if we don't commit to the days in the time, it'll just.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, because we get busy. Like before you know it, it's nine o' clock and we're like. We haven't even eaten.

[Elle]

Yeah, there's. There's always something. Yeah, there's just always something. And so being intentional about it just with anything you're trying to improve.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, yeah. But you mentioned Raz. It was fun. I have to. First of all, I have to congratulate.

[Elle]

It was kind of fun for me.

[Joe Scales]

Well, yeah, we'll get into that. But I do, I do have to shout out big sexy.

[Elle]

We know this human personally and it's hilarious that this is the screen name. If I can't use that old terminology that he's chosen.

[Joe Scales]

I'm just gonna say it as many times as possible. Too big. Sexy.

[Elle]

Yeah. Well, well done. He was finally excited to finally take one down.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, I think it's been a while.

[Elle]

Last week he fell asleep. Discord camera, which was my favorite because he busted out.

[Joe Scales]

He didn't fall asleep while he was playing. He busted out and he was staying in the discord. And.

[Elle]

And yes.

[Joe Scales]

Um, I would say chatting with everyone, but he fell asleep. So.

[Elle]

Anyhow, congratulations, dude. Way to take one down. Bit of a heads up battle with Bulldog, who is kind of bulldogish at the table.

[Joe Scales]

He.

[Elle]

He.

[Joe Scales]

But you know what? Both of them built up a pretty good stack early on.

[Elle]

It was not a negative.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. And. And so they did what they should do. Right. They. They made moves.

[Elle]

I'm pretty sure nobody asked them. What were you doing in that last hand? Because that's what people asked me.

[Joe Scales]

And what was your rightfully so.

[Elle]

I. I'm. I had a really hard time distinguishing deuce to seven triple draw. And Raz and I just hadn't played it in a while and so I just didn't make the right move sometimes. Yeah, I just didn't. And, and I will say anybody who's trying to play online poker, who hasn't played poker physically in person, it's much faster.

[Joe Scales]

It is.

[Elle]

And you, if you are not really in sync with the strategy and you rely on other strategy, it doesn't work. Which is fine. I knew that. But at the same time, it was going so quickly and you can only fold so many times before you have to have some type of action. And I just chose the wrong spots.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. Well.

[Elle]

And.

[Joe Scales]

And to your point, like online, when you're trying to learn a game so fast, then, yeah, it goes fast during the hand, but also after the hands are over and everybody, you know, you see what everybody had then, you know, if you're close, if both of you had an eight low, for instance, then you're like going on to the next. Well, how did they win? And before you can even get to the end of it, then they're gone. So I get.

[Elle]

The cards are gone. Yeah, yeah. Not the competitor. I know. I tried to screenshot the last hand where I got knocked out and I was like, damn it. I just wanted to show what I was thinking to go through it.

[Joe Scales]

And anyhow, you came down when you busted out Tee Titan to pick up that bounty.

[Elle]

Yeah. You came crashing because I shoved all in. And I won. I've been trying to tell him the whole time. I told the same story. I didn't change it.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Elle]

And he didn't believe me. Well, so bounty taken. And I also. This just so everybody knows. I didn't know that he was the bounty. I was just. I was just charged up because you didn't even.

[Joe Scales]

I told you after the game was over. Well, at least you got the bounty. And then you were like, I did.

[Elle]

I had no. So embarrassing. So embarrassing. But that's just telling you that I wasn't going after the bounty. I was just playing my game.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. Yeah. That means that the reign of Titan is over. I just like. I just like saying the reign of Titan.

[Elle]

I told you I'm.

[Joe Scales]

Sounds cool.

[Elle]

Yeah, well, but you're not on the throne. No Mo.

[Joe Scales]

All in all, you. You. You played it. You had some mistakes, but overall, what was your thought of Razz?

[Elle]

I want to keep playing it. I'd like to play more, but I also wanna play it here at home. Maybe the next home game we have, we play Raz first for a little bit and then move on just to. It's just nice to get reps in person. And I'm not gonna find that in the casinos we go to very often.

[Joe Scales]

That. That's true, too.

[Elle]

So I think that's the other thing is trying to get reps in is a challenge with mixed games. Because you can't find them everywhere.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. 100. And that's why they have things. That's why, you know, the mixed game festival exists. And. Yeah, Robbie Strzinski does that mixed game festival, which. I got an email that he's got the next ones scheduled, so.

[Elle]

Oh, good.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. I want to look at trying to get out to one of those, but

[Elle]

we'll have to wear our shirts one day.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. We also already have next month's mixed game picked out and the dates for the next Patreon games, which the next one your favorite, I think beyond hold' Em is Deuce to seven. Triple draw.

[Elle]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

That's what we're gonna watch me focus

[Elle]

on Raz and then suck at that. We'll see.

[Joe Scales]

And I think we're gonna do the 5th and the 19th, which we'll do the 5th. They'll be holding them. And the 19th will be our mixed game.

[Elle]

Staying away from Valentine's Day.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. Yep. And then also the Good Karma seats will continue.

[Elle]

Yeah. Ben Minch is just so generous. Thank you, Ben. So much.

[Joe Scales]

He's been funding the Good Karma seats for those that Won them. So, yeah.

[Elle]

And he's throwing in a little extra challenge. So if you are a winner of a good karma seat, that means you've thrown your name in the ring to be able to have the Patreon membership paid for and you join the games, both games during the month. Should you win the game, the entire tournament, he will also purchase you a piece of ante up swag.

[Joe Scales]

That's pretty awesome.

[Elle]

I do think so too. So, like, hello, challenge flag throne. Who's participating? Who wants in? How do they submit their names?

[Joe Scales]

Sign up.

[Elle]

Oh, just sign up for free.

[Joe Scales]

Just sign up for the Patreon. And then we put all those names in a hat. Yep. All those names go in a wheel.

[Elle]

Make sure your email's attached correctly.

[Joe Scales]

Yes, exactly. And then I spin that wheel and reach out.

[Elle]

So, yeah, check the email. I went to the optometrist yesterday and they had my email wrong.

[Joe Scales]

Really?

[Elle]

Yeah. So I've been wondering h, maybe they're trying to get in touch with me. So please, we would love to be in touch with you. If you're, if you're the name on the wheel that comes up, then we want to, we want to extend that good karma seat to you.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, absolutely. Now I do, I do want to get into one thing because you brought up a good point and it's been bothering you for a while.

[Elle]

Oh, this pisses me off. And it's. I think what's the most frustrating is that I didn't pick up on it earlier.

[Joe Scales]

Okay.

[Elle]

I think that's why I'm going now. Hold on. And this started happening when we were talking to Dustin Scara, one of our ambassadors, contributor to the monthly magazine, our Arizona ambassador. He was at the Beau Rivage playing in the Heater series.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Elle]

And chatting about strategy and back and forth.

[Joe Scales]

Did he see the grandma?

[Elle]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, he did. And we'll get to that. We'll get to Linda because you know that meme of. Okay, Linda or. Yeah, yeah, no, this is.

[Joe Scales]

Listen, Linda.

[Elle]

Listen, Linda. No, this, this Linda made you listen. Yeah, I love her. We're going to get to that. But he's at the Beau Rivage playing in the Heater series, chatting with us about strategy, says what his chip stack is and then says, so I have this many big blinds. So I look it up, I look up the structure and I'm like, he's lying. He does not have that many big blinds. There's no. How is he calculating this? Like, how is his math off? Because he's a super intelligent Guy really, really locked in to tournaments. And I'm like. And you said, what do you mean? He's lying? I'm like, he does not have that many big blinds.

[Joe Scales]

Okay.

[Elle]

Because you also have to pay a big blind auntie. So you're saying to me that you have 15 big blinds when really you may have seven.

[Joe Scales]

So if you. Let's just use an example here. Say you have 5,000 chips.

[Elle]

Yes.

[Joe Scales]

And the blinds are 200. 400 with a 400 big blind.

[Elle]

Andy, to me, you need to consider that 400 big blind ante because your chip stack is going down every orbit by 800, not 4. So explain.

[Joe Scales]

For example, he was saying in that case. And he had. The chip sacks are not this. But yeah, this is just the example. In that case, you would say, oh, I have 12 and a half big blinds. And you don't. You have. By your. What you're saying you have really five.

[Elle]

Correct. And that. I also think that. Help. I don't understand it. Please just help me. Because.

[Joe Scales]

Because 200. 400 with a 400 big blind ante

[Elle]

is a thousand an orbit. You've got five shots. Yeah, that's it.

[Joe Scales]

So really what you're saying is double blindness. You need to be talking about this in orbits rather than.

[Elle]

Yes.

[Joe Scales]

Big blinds.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Elle]

Why do. Why. Why is that. Why is that the common way of explaining where you are in your position?

[Joe Scales]

And I understand where you're coming from with that. The. The difference is the way that the blind. The reason that we have a big blind auntie. And I think you have to go to this to be able to get to the other. So the way that antis used to be done was everybody at the table had to throw out their ante.

[Elle]

Right. I get that it's still going to cost you that per orbit.

[Joe Scales]

I understand. But you can't every. Every time.

[Elle]

So that's why they're talking about that. It's the big blind. Because that's how everybody started. Like, oh, I have this many big blinds. Yeah, well, it's outdated. Move on, move forward.

[Joe Scales]

But some of those charts that you're looking at from. From. You know, they have these things called push fold charts.

[Elle]

Okay.

[Joe Scales]

And those charts talk about everything in big blinds. And so you have to look at that.

[Elle]

But it's not telling you the truth. It's really not. Yes, it's telling you you have this many big blinds, but that's really not how many you have.

[Joe Scales]

Because you have to.

[Elle]

Because you have to take into consideration that you also have to pay the ante which really. So if you just want to do the math, just divide it in two is really what I need to know. When I'm speaking to other people and they say I have 60 big blinds, I'm going to say, really? You have 30, but it's okay. I'm not going to say it to you, but at least I will understand. I will understand. That's. I think the biggest thing for me is it's, it's inaccurate from the standpoint of how many orbits you can play.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

And I, And I always associated big blind with how many more chance, how many more rounds can I play.

[Joe Scales]

But even that big blind doesn't take into account the small blind. It's how many big blinds you have.

[Elle]

Yeah. So that just throws a whole nother thing. Why did you do that to me? It's because math and I are not friends.

[Joe Scales]

Well, always.

[Elle]

And, and so the math isn't mathing. And I really have to get this organized in my brain. The only reason we bring it up is because maybe other people.

[Elliot Schechter]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

If you guys have a better explanation for this, because I'm struggling with better explanation.

[Elle]

Or. Or. And I'm not saying your explanation is poor. It's just the way that poker players communicate. I'm going, this is really not true. I don't understand.

[Patrick]

Right.

[Elle]

And how can I set myself up to explain and make sure I'm protecting my stack in the best possible way? And I think that's what I'm grappling with. And I just bring it up because maybe you are, too. Maybe I'm the blonde outlier moment. I don't know. But it's frustrating when you start learning the terminology and you're at a different level in your game and then you're communicating with people and then they're talking back and forth and you're like, now, wait, hold on.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

And I'm not going to bring that up in a Discord chat because this chatting get lost in translation and words sometimes there for in text. But Linda, let's talk about Linda. Yes, listen. Linda. Linda Hammonds. I don't know if she's of Biloxi, Mississippi, but she's playing in Bililoxi, Mississippi.

[Joe Scales]

She's 88.

[Elle]

She's my new hero.

[Joe Scales]

88 years old.

[Elle]

I want to be. I want to be like Linda, apparently

[Joe Scales]

sharp as a tack because.

[Elle]

Yeah. And not because she took 14th in the mystery bounty. Not because of that. Because she walked in to the Beau Rivage Casino with. I think she was there with her son and daughter.

[Joe Scales]

In law. Okay.

[Elle]

They brought her and they were staying. And she goes to these particular machines to play.

[Joe Scales]

She plays these slots. These particular slots. Okay.

[Elle]

And she got there, and they weren't there anymore. So she said, I'm just gonna go upstairs and see what's happening up there at 88. Says, hmm, wonder what they're doing. And doesn't even pay attention that there's 2,000 people playing, right. Sits down and is like, here's my entry. And from different stories, because I've read and watched so many of them. They literally had to make sure she knew how to play. I think they were concerned. Like, are you sure this is what you want to be doing?

[Joe Scales]

Really? And, and she.

[Elle]

That's what I've read.

[Joe Scales]

She did great, apparently.

[Elle]

Oh, yeah. And she said she just focused on the eight that were there. She said one of the things that was, she can focus. That is, that is her strong suit.

[Joe Scales]

Her strong suit is focus. Okay.

[Elle]

Focus. And she only, she only paid attention to the eight competitors that she had at her table. That's the only thing she was concerned about.

[Joe Scales]

I just love. I just love.

[Elle]

They had a $10,000 she won.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. They had this interview with her on, on the local TV station.

[Elle]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

And my favorite part of the entire interview was she said they asked her. Well, because she got into another tournament after this was over, apparently the, the casino gave her the.

[Elle]

Yes. I watched a video of it. They were so cute when they handed it.

[Joe Scales]

But they, they asked her, well, why are you in this tournament?

[Elle]

Well, I paid to get in, like, simple, straightforward. That's what I mean. At 88, I'm just gonna tell it like it is. And that's what most people do over the age of 80 is they just tell you what they're thinking. Right. But, oh, and another, another Linda. Lovely. She has red fingernails. And, you know, I love to have my nails done. And they asked her about chip shuffling, and she said, I've, I'm trying, but I think these nails are getting in the way. But I'm not getting rid of these to be able to do that. You tell them, Linda.

[Joe Scales]

She's hilarious.

[Elle]

You tell them.

[Joe Scales]

I, I, I want to talk to her a lot.

[Elle]

I think we, I know, I think we might have to try to reach out and just see if she can join us. But she' her own business, on a trip with her son, decides to take it down. And the poker room manager asked to see her after she took down 14th place. Apparently the whole place stood up and erupted in applause.

[Joe Scales]

Oh, really? That's yes.

[Elle]

Which was very, very cool. And then she, I guess, you know, gathered her things and went to the cage and did all the stuff. And then she was in the middle of an interview with golf poker.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

Yes, they were in an interview with her. She was in an interview with them. And the poker room manager came over and said, I'm sorry to interrupt, but there was actually an additional prize for 14th place that we hadn't handed to you yet, which I thought was the best way of, of handling the situation. She said, oh. And he hands her an envelope and he goes, she goes, I love surprises. And I was like, I do too, Linda. I do too. And she opens this up and she says, is this 400 to get into the. And he said, yes. You asked when you could play again and you can play again at 4 o' clock today. And we would. That is your entry fee. And that's how she went to play again.

[Joe Scales]

That is cool. I love that.

[Elle]

And she said, I'll, I will be there at 4 with her envelope. And I said, yes, you will.

[Joe Scales]

Spoken like a true 88 year old woman. I will be there at four.

[Elle]

Yeah, that's going to be me at 82. I'm all right with Linda. So just feel good story. Feel good poker story. If you haven't seen the videos, go watch them.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, that's awesome. Linda Hammonds, if you're need to search it, then just look up Linda Hammond's poker beau Rivage. Yeah, but so we also, we put these little notes to in here what we want to talk about and whatever. And you put in a note about this restaurant.

[Elle]

Yeah, it's in Banff Canada. It's.

[Joe Scales]

Oh, it's in Canada. Okay.

[Elle]

It's very far away. And it's a pipe dream. I don't. This is not something you have a

[Joe Scales]

restaurant that is a pipe dream to go to.

[Elle]

Yes.

[Joe Scales]

Okay.

[Elle]

Like I would like to be able to go, but I don't know what the likelihood of us going to Banff Canada is at the moment.

[Joe Scales]

Well, just because of about as likely as me to be able to say that

[Elle]

the concept, it's a very casual restaurant, okay. That has booths and very simple but fun atmosphere.

[Joe Scales]

Okay.

[Elle]

They have landline phones at every table and you can call other tables and have conversations with people while they're at the table.

[Joe Scales]

Is that a good idea though?

[Elle]

Our children would die. They would never even go. I think our daughter would rather sit in the car in the parking lot than enter into this experience. Our granddaughter, her daughter, on the other hand, Would be all about it.

[Joe Scales]

Like, you're picking up the phone and you're like, I think you should have got the salmon.

[Elle]

I mean, they were suggesting things like, what's your favorite movie? Not criticizing people's orders.

[Joe Scales]

Is the roast beef good?

[Elle]

Yeah. I mean, you never know. You could. You could see somebody get their food brought out. That's a good point. And then call and go, how is that really? Is it spicy? Can you imagine?

[Joe Scales]

What if. What if. The ultimate rejection. What if nobody picked it up? Like, if you just call the other table, they're like, no, I'm not even.

[Elle]

You shouldn't enter the restaurant unless you're gonna pick up the phone. That's what I'm gonna say. Unless you're a team player, stay out off the team.

[Joe Scales]

Why is this phone keep ringing?

[Elle]

I love it.

[Joe Scales]

It's dinner time. Leave me alone.

[Elle]

I mean, like, girl code. You could help so many times. You could be like, that's. I can tell you're on a first date. Do you need to go to the bathroom? Let's go. I mean, like, you can. There's so many scenarios. We could talk about this all day. And that's why I want to experience it.

[Joe Scales]

Okay.

[Elle]

I would be devastated if we went and nobody called me.

[Joe Scales]

Okay, well, that's. That's a whole other form of rejection.

[Elle]

Super, super rejection. And then maybe they have like, starter questions on the table or like, you know, those decks of cards that people have that are like icebreakers or things like that. This would be a great team building exercise. I think that's what I should tell my boss.

[Joe Scales]

You've got to go to Banff.

[Elle]

Bant.

[Joe Scales]

Yep. That place. And.

[Elle]

Well, maybe we could set up our own. I think it's a brilliant idea. I would like to see more restaurants.

[Joe Scales]

I would. I would love to. To go to one of these and just see how this works out. Because I think that some people would come up with some really creative questions to ask people.

[Elle]

Yes.

[Joe Scales]

And some people would just freeze under pressure. They'd be like, just calling. Just say hello.

[Elle]

Weird. Yeah. Well, I'm gonna. I'm gonna mention one more idea that I. That I've come across and I haven't even told you this yet. Park and pour pubs.

[Joe Scales]

Park and Poor pubs. Okay.

[Elle]

Okay. If you are in the Columbus, Ohio area, please just hire them and tell me what the experience is like, because they have a pub on wheels. You remember the idea that I had about the. The ice cream truck that actually poured beer, wine, and liquor?

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, yeah.

[Elle]

That was years ago. It Never happened. If you do that, let me know. But it's literally a pub. It's like a. They took a backyard shed and they put it on a trailer, except it's classy. It has wooden floors, barstools. It looks like an Irish pub. It is so cool. And no advertising. This is not a. This is not them asking us. Whatever the people think. Park and pour pubs in Columbus, Ohio, if you are near. Just. Just hire them and let me know what the experience is. Or send them to. Send them down east, please. I would love that.

[Joe Scales]

You've always wanted to do one of those, like, bars where everybody's pedaling. What do they call those where you're.

[Elle]

Oh, we're going to try to do that when we're in Arizona. You just don't know they have them. They have them in Scottsdale, so.

[Joe Scales]

Okay. All right.

[Elle]

That in a micro tattoo. That's my plan.

[Joe Scales]

You've always skipping over that one. You've always. You've always wanted to do these. Whatever they're called, the bicycle things. That's like a classier version.

[Elle]

Yeah, but I. Then that's a new idea. Yeah. You've seen all those ones that you pedal. You've seen. You've seen the one, the. The horse trailers that have been changed into champagne on wheels. And, you know, they set up at weddings and they do whatever. This literally pulls up to your driveway or your party or whatever. I mean, how fun would that be? We're going to bring the pub to you.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. Yeah. And you get to be indoors, which, with the impending weather we have coming, would be a great idea.

[Elle]

I mean, I've seen an Airstream.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

That's been turned into this, but it's stationary. They leave it there as part of the venue that you have to go to to experience this comes to you. It's probably pricey. I haven't even looked. Doesn't matter if anybody's done it. If you're gonna just let me know. On that note, Snowmageddon's coming. We don't really know. It's been prediction of 2 inches to 32 inches.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

Whichever way the Airstream is going to touch one another is going to make some mess.

[Joe Scales]

I'm from Kansas.

[Elle]

Yes, you are.

[Joe Scales]

And in Kansas, we know exactly what the weather is going to be at whatever time it's going to be.

[Elle]

Because it's flat.

[Joe Scales]

Yes. Here in the mountains, they're like, I don't know. You're going to get 3 inches or 30 inches. I don't know.

[Elle]

We need to Be prepared. So here comes the grocery store.

[Joe Scales]

It could be snow, it could be ice.

[Elle]

Yeah, well, we still need to go to the grocery store and see if our pilot light works. Yes, you gotta have backup heat, so.

[Joe Scales]

Exactly.

[Elle]

Say a quick prayer, put the positive vibes in the air, and we'll let you know how it goes next week. Other than that, as always, Joe, it's a pleasure being around the table with you.

[Joe Scales]

Likewise. Now it's time for Call the Floor with Elliot Schechter. Elliot Schechter joins us each week to say how he would ruin situations that come up in your games. And he's with us again this week. Elliot, how's it going?

[Elliot Schechter]

Thanks for coming. Pretty nicely. How you doing, Joe?

[Joe Scales]

I'm doing well. Doing well. I just got a haircut, so. Always makes you feel a little bit better when you, when you shave some of that hair off. Yes, but we'll, we'll see how that works out with the impending snow they are calling for, for this weekend. Oh, wow. Last, last number that I heard was 30 inches.

[Elliot Schechter]

That's a big number.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. Not looking forward to that. Maybe should have kept some of that hair on for that, But if it's going to be cold, it might as well snow. That's, that's what I'll go with.

[Elliot Schechter]

Okay.

[Joe Scales]

We, we have a call the floor this week that's sent in by Dave Miller and he says it's more of a ask the floor than a call the floor necessarily.

[Elliot Schechter]

Okay.

[Joe Scales]

But they've been dealing poker for almost 20 years in a free bar league where the dealer deals but rarely plays. That's good. A lot of the bar leagues that I see, they're, they're passing the deal around the table. So that's interesting. He says, since I have, since I also have to enforce the rules, I've immersed myself in Roberts and the TDA rules and I'm an active member of the TDA forums. Even though there's not a lot of activity on there hasn't been monitored. A few months ago, I got a license in New Jersey that allows me to deal in regulated charity poker events.

[Elliot Schechter]

That is new to me. I thought I was up on most things. I had no idea

[Joe Scales]

that there, that that was a requirement to be able to deal them or that that wasn't

[Elliot Schechter]

even, even a regulated activity in New Jersey. I had no idea.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, I thought it was interesting that you had to be licensed to do it, but he says I was recently dealing in such a charity game where the buy in is $100 and $100 rebuys are plentiful, as is the case with a lot of charities. Right. A situation came up early. Still in the rebuy period. We're at the river. Heads up. The board has everything. Straight flush, possibilities and a pair. Player A makes a bet. Player B, in a resigned, beaten manner, announces fold. Although he doesn't have to. Player A tables his hand flush. Player B acknowledges the hand and folds his hand, also face up. I realize now that I probably should not have, but I hesitated briefly before mucking the cards. Player B had a full house and nobody spoke, even though he said clearly fold. I momentarily was thinking about asking, is that a fold? But decided against it as that could cause him to double check, essentially violating the one person to a hand rule. I did not say anything but mucked the hands. After that short delay as I'm shuffling, another player said, wait, didn't you have a full house? I confirmed it and said how I was unable to say anything during the hand and also thanked the other players for not saying anything at the time. As a side note, he says, I occasionally remind people who speak up thinking the action is over, that it's not over until all cards are tabled or mucked. If they argue with me, I tell them to do a YouTube search for Phil Ivey folds a flush. I remember that and and if someone spoke at that table, Phil would not have it. Player B was very much resigned to the fact that he screwed up and didn't blame me. I kind of wish I didn't hesitate though, or acknowledge it when asked or when asked to simply say there was no reason for me to figure out which hand was the winner. So I didn't look too closely. But is there anything else I should have done differently? He says thinking about it now, the knowledge that he screwed up could have affected his game or how the other players play against him. So maybe I should have kept my mouth shut altogether. What do you think? So there's a few things that I have questions about, but let's get. Let me get your thoughts first. All right. Well

[Elliot Schechter]

Dave, I appreciate you submitting this one. This is a good topic for discussion and one of the more unusual ones I've seen in a while. You did the right thing. We weren't at the showdown. We had never gotten there. There was no showdown for this hand. There was a bet and no call. And in most rooms and in the tda, it's absolutely codified. Time honored standard terms are to be accepted when announced by a player when it's Their turn. There was a bet to the player B. Player B announced fold. Pretty simple. Player A didn't need to turn their cards over until players B. Until player B's cards were absolutely in the muck. They certainly didn't need to turn them over when player B was still in possession of dead cards. And that's the only thing that really made this possible and somewhat potentially controversial. Yeah. Player A bet, Player B announce fold. That's a fold. We're not at the showdown where announcements are almost to be disregarded. This was a player's turn to act, and they announced an action. And you only get one action per betting turn. So that was it. They didn't have a chance to change their mind, regardless of what the opponent held or showed or if somebody else decided to help them out and do something by telling them what they had. So, yeah, so far, so good. All is well that ends well. I agree with that. You shouldn't have hesitated. As soon as they announced hold and then release their cards, you should have absolutely gotten those cards to the muck. But, yeah, not acknowledging what they had, not reading what they had. Those are correct. One player to a hand absolutely applies and needs to remain in effect. So you didn't do anything wrong there.

[Joe Scales]

Right, Right. Regardless, though, of the hesitation, you also can't be worried about, oh, if he knows he messed up, then that might affect his play or how somebody else is playing against him. That's not on you as the dealer. I mean, acknowledging it. You don't have to say anything. I get that. But at the same time, if the other player sees that he had the full house and says something, the hand was over, there's nothing anybody could do. If that affects him moving forward, then that's on him, not you.

[Elliot Schechter]

We're only responsible for our own feelings.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, but the. The hand that he referred to, the Phil Ivy folds, a flesh hand, as I remember it.

[Elliot Schechter]

Okay.

[Joe Scales]

I don't think it's the same kind of a situation because Phil Ivey looked at his hand, he folded. I don't think he turned his hand up for everybody to see. Did he? Do you remember that hand at all?

[Elliot Schechter]

That's been a while, but, yeah, I don't think he did either. He definitely.

[Joe Scales]

I'll have to go back and look at that and see. But if I remember, it was just really the TV audience that could see he folded a flush. You know, maybe his neighbor entirely behind.

[Elliot Schechter]

He might have held his cars in such a way that the people at the table could have seen them. Just because he might have been dumbfounded by the situation, although it doesn't sound like Phil.

[Joe Scales]

But even in that case, even if everybody was able to see the cards, it's a different kind of a situation because in this he announced fold and then turned his cards up so the action was over. Well,

[Elliot Schechter]

apparently because the better turn their cards up after the announcement of fold. And it's a charity game. You're getting a, you're going to get a lot of inexperienced players. A lot of people only play with their friends at home. One person shows the cards, the other person shows their cards. Even if the betting is over and, and no more determination is to be made, it's not uncommon. You're not going to see a whole lot of cutthroat style poker what you'd find at a, at a major tournament, festival or series. This is not that. So it's fairly common for people to show their cards. If somebody else shows their cards in a spot like that. Yeah, it's, it's going to happen quite a bit.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, it's definitely a more relaxed atmosphere in a charity game or a home game where people are pretty free at showing their cards and having fun, which is what they're designed for. And you know, those rebuy periods go on for a long time and you see them utilized quite often because you're raising money for a charity. It should be that way.

[Elliot Schechter]

Exactly. Most charity rebuy formats a good portion of the, the prize pool and the rebuys are going to the charity. So yeah, everybody's trying to help out.

[Joe Scales]

If you're looking for a game where everybody is so strict about not showing their cards and so strict about every single, you know, thing being, I won't say boring poker, but we'll say strict poker then charity game is probably not your, your place to play. But Dave, I appreciate you sending this in. Like Elliot said, this is a really good discussion point. It's one of those where I think charity poker a lot of times may be the only place that some people in the, in the country can play. So you know, unless they go on vacation. So this is something that is quite possible that could come up anytime for them. And if anyone has a call to floor that they would like to know how Elliot would rule, send it to podcastnetmagazine.com Elliot, we'll see you next week. We'll see if I can dig out of this giant snowstorm on its on its way.

[Elliot Schechter]

I hope you can too.

[Joe Scales]

Let's break it down with hand of the Week. Welcome to Hand of the week where Patrick, our resident fish and I dive into listener submitted hands each week. We tackle everything from questionable bluffs to hero calls and the hands that make you scratch your head. Whether you're looking for strategy tips or you just want to see if you would have played it any better, we've got you covered. Patrick, how's it going? I, I, I think this week, you know, stop with all the babble and whatever, we should just jump into the hand of the week and.

[Patrick]

Absolutely not. I have a few things to address. This is for no twofold. This is for Sean McDermott and the coaching staff of the Bills.

[Joe Scales]

Too early, too early.

[Patrick]

This is for the rest of the NFL because the Patriots are back. I listen. Life is good again. Life is always great. But this, this, it feels like the world is back to, you know, being exactly how it should in the NFL. I will say this one, I will be the first. I would not consider myself a die hard because I've only been a Patriots fan for the better part of like 10 or 12 years since, you know, I lived there and you know, my dad was a big fan, but I'm pretty close. But I will be on record stating that we may have had the easiest run to a Super bowl ever. Yeah, I mean we, we played, we played four winning teams, winning record teams this year. We caught a first round with first rounder with, with no offensive line. Our second round game against the Texans was hilarious to watch. Ugly at best to say the least. I mean the conditions in New England for everyone that watched it was snowy and Foxborough as it should be in January. But listen, and now you're going to

[Joe Scales]

go against Broncos team that is playing their second string quarterback because Nick's has a fractured ankle.

[Patrick]

Nico Collins was out for the Texans. They lost their tight end.

[Elliot Schechter]

He.

[Patrick]

Listen, C.J. stroud is a very, very good football player, but he is not, he's not good enough to lose those two guys and have a very good defense. Very variable coach defense coming after you. I mean it showed. They, they turned the ball over, you know, more times than I've won hands here recently, so.

[Joe Scales]

Well, Buffalo turned the ball over their share. Fair share.

[Patrick]

Well, yeah, it was the most that he's had ever. He had four turnovers in a game

[Joe Scales]

and, and they were boneheaded plays like that. That play right before halftime where he fumbled should not have happened. You throw that ball away. If you're going to try and be aggressive and, and take a shot down the field, then do it. But if it's not there. You throw it out of bounds, whatever. That's not McDermott's fault. And McDermott ended up getting fired over it.

[Patrick]

I the off chance that McDermott, or. What's the GM's name, Bean. Yeah, well, he's not Billy Bean. Let me tell you, this guy, I don't know how, I don't know how he kept his job if McDermott's getting fired. I understand that he grabbed a few draft picks and some trades, I don't know, 10 years ago, but listen, I feel for you guys. I mean, the Bills, you had your run, you had after, what was it, 91, 92, 93.

[Joe Scales]

No, no, it. Look, don't act like it's over.

[Patrick]

Listen, it wasn't a fat lady singing to start. I mean, that's Taps. But I. Here's my. Here's from the outside, looking in as a non Bills fan and part Bills haters, you had. Was it 92, 91, 92, 93. We went to the Super bowl three years in a row.

[Joe Scales]

Were those four. Thank you.

[Patrick]

Four. Excuse me. We did not get it done just yet. They moved on from that. They had a series of years, a decade, if you're counting where they finish in the bottom of the AFC east

[Joe Scales]

or close 17 years.

[Patrick]

Okay, so it was a few years. And then this guy.

[Joe Scales]

No laughing. What?

[Patrick]

This guy, Josh Allen comes and just resurrects an entire. Listen, just an entire organization. And then you happen to run in. You guys are the Phil Mickelson of the NFL. Phil Mickelson would have won 10 plus majors if it wasn't for Tiger Woods. And you guys would have won multiple Super Bowls if it wasn't for the showy, flashy goons out in Casey.

[Joe Scales]

Well, let me just. I, I know McDermott just got fired, and I'm, I'm going to just be blatant here. Not his fault. This, this team was held together by duct tape all season long. A couple of those games against Kansas City were McDermott's fault. I will give you that.

[Patrick]

One of them for sure if I

[Joe Scales]

think it was 20, the 13 second game.

[Patrick]

Yeah. Yes. Okay.

[Elle]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

I think he's owned that, though. I mean, not that an apology makes everything better, but he owned it like 47 times from the last game of the season until opening day.

[Joe Scales]

Right. I don't think he should have been fired.

[Patrick]

Yep.

[Joe Scales]

But now we, we see what happens. I know that we go forward and we, we hope for the best, but wherever McDermott ends up, I think that they're going to have a great Team. And on a happy note, we have

[Patrick]

the New England Patriots are back.

[Joe Scales]

No, no, no, no. That's title game.

[Patrick]

They get to play against a Bo Nicks less Denver Broncos team where our old player Jared Stidham, who's still great friends with half the organization, is a starter and he hasn't thrown a ball at NFL game in a year.

[Joe Scales]

Okay, but let's be real. Bo Nix isn't the reason they got there.

[Patrick]

Oh, I'd love to hear this Spiels. Explain this one to me.

[Joe Scales]

Bo Nix, you can't. You can't trust Bo Nix anyway. I realize he ran a bunch of comebacks and whatever, but there is nobody listening to this show right now that is going to tell you Bo Nix is the reason that the Broncos are the number one seed.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I'm not going to argue with you on that one. But if they don't. If they don't have Bo Nicks and they have some other, you know, medium, you know, way quarterback, I don't think they're the, you know, afc, you know, buy. I mean, I.

[Joe Scales]

It's. It's definitely an easier road for you guys, but I would not be going. If I were a Patriot fan, I would not be going into this thinking, oh, well, Bo Nix is out. It's a walk. No, you've still got to face a good defense, and I still think it's going to be a close game. And maybe that's just me hoping that the Patriots don't make it.

[Patrick]

Listen, here's the deal. At the end of the day, all's right with the world. I'm sorry about McDermott. New England Patriots are back in the AFC Championship game and you still have to find a way to get through Seattle. I mean, that's. They're a juggernaut.

[Joe Scales]

So I guess go put your money on. On your team and DraftKings, I think.

[Patrick]

I think it's very. Go to. If you. If you went to DraftKings like I did this morning, the line for a road playoff favorite is the highest that it's been in God knows how long. They're favored by five on the road in the AFC Championship game. Explain that one.

[Elle]

I think.

[Joe Scales]

I think I might put some money on this one just. Just because I'm going to take Denver on this one to at least cover the five.

[Patrick]

Okay, well, listen. Drafting. Drafting needs their money, too. They do. They do lots of charitable. They got it. They got to pay me when I win. They do lots of charitable donations across the board. They're great with it. So you know, considered a charitable donation to, to the cause. They're, they're joke. But this is not a football podcast. This is a poker podcast.

[Joe Scales]

And we have one sent in by Ed Shelton.

[Patrick]

All right.

[Joe Scales]

And he's playing two, five, which I think now puts our total three in a row. Playing.

[Patrick]

I was gonna say four. Yeah, three, three. At least.

[Joe Scales]

The effective stacks right around a thousand dollars. He says, and this is a Friday night crowd. A little splashy, a little talkative, and a lot of let's see a flop.

[Patrick]

Sounds like my kind of people. I like seeing flops. I like it a lot.

[Joe Scales]

Ed says, I'm in the hijack with the nine of spades, nine of diamonds, and two players limp in front of me.

[Patrick]

Okay,

[Joe Scales]

what do you do with that?

[Patrick]

Okay, free flowing Friday night. Two limpers. We're going big. Joe,

[Joe Scales]

how big?

[Patrick]

40.

[Joe Scales]

Okay. You went a little bit bigger than I was thinking. The initial number in my head was 30.

[Patrick]

The splashy Friday night comment, you know, everyone's a little freewheeling that, that added to it. My first thought was 25. I go, Nah, that's not high enough. Then I said 35. I'm like, you know what? Add another five.

[Joe Scales]

Okay. My thought was a little more, a little less just off the cuff,

[Patrick]

feeling good. I might as well be sitting right next to, to Ed, telling him, telling him what I would bet on this free flowing Friday night.

[Joe Scales]

I, I was thinking four times the big blind plus, you know, one big blind per limper. So that's where I was getting to 30.

[Patrick]

It seems a little more calculated than mine.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, exactly. Okay, my thought was 30. We may not get those limpers to fold, but we start to narrow down that the rest of that field, you know, we don't get a bunch of callers there. Um, then if we go, if we get one of the limpers to fold, great. If we don't, we're three handed. So yeah, $30 is, is where I was going then. We're not going up against only super premium hands too. So if we. That's a good super high. Which 40. I don't think it's right on that point, but. But if you'd have gone like 50.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

Now everybody's folding except for people that have the super premiums.

[Patrick]

I mean, and it's a great thought. I mean, you need to know, I mean, we talk about bed sizing all the time and it's very, very important on a lot of different occasions and that this is one of them. I mean, you go too high here, you Catch even just one caller, you know, you need to know what you're up against as far as.

[Joe Scales]

Right, exactly. So ed makes it $30. So he's in my camp. Okay.

[Patrick]

Smart man.

[Joe Scales]

The cutoff and button both call. That's not great news. Along with one of the limpers. So four of us to see the flop is not ideal.

[Patrick]

No.

[Joe Scales]

Although I will say, if we hit a set here, we are going to be able to build a big pile

[Patrick]

before we even get to the flop. Now, obviously, a lot will play into it as far as, you know, betting and bed sizing, but if you, you know, cut off and button push the envelope after us, potentially. Are you already looking at. If you're. If you don't make your set on the flop, are we. Are we looking at. Especially if we catch, you know, a race, you know, depending on what we end up doing, as far as pot size goes, are you already looking at, you know, catch, catch the catch, the nine, or leave?

[Joe Scales]

Yes. I mean, it's one of those. It's one of those where the worst answer is probably. It depends, but.

[Patrick]

Right.

[Joe Scales]

It depends, but it needs to be a thought.

[Patrick]

I guess it's the point that I'm making sure. It needs to be.

[Joe Scales]

You know, a lot of times you're going into a situation like this, no set, no bet. If I don't get my. My nine, I don't have a lot to look at. But if it's like, you know, three to a straight and I've got the

[Patrick]

fourth there, you know, then, yeah, a lot will happen. Yeah, that's fair.

[Joe Scales]

You know, things like that, then you kind of play it by ear. But. But yeah, it. Not getting a set is not ideal either. When you have a pot that's now, what, $127?

[Patrick]

Yeah. Yep.

[Joe Scales]

Then you've got three other players in this hand.

[Patrick]

Yeah, that's the other thought. I mean, it was those two combinations. It was. You know, because, you know, we've talked about this before. You want to play scared. I mean, that's not a. That's not a point that I was trying to make, but it's more of a. I'm trying to make a conscious effort in this year to think through hands, you know, as more. As best as I can, because for everyone that's played against me, you can get caught up really quick when you're not thinking clearly. So.

[Joe Scales]

Right, 20, 26.

[Patrick]

We're thinking clearly. All right, well, let's go to the pots. So 127 to the flop.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. 127 in the pot. And the flop is the 10 of clubs, nine of hearts, six of clubs. That'll work.

[Patrick]

That's what we're looking for. It checks disregard everything I just said except for think smart in 20, 26.

[Joe Scales]

Everything else, it, it does check to us. So now what?

[Patrick]

Now we bat size properly. 127. We started it off with 30.

[Joe Scales]

I think this is going to be really interesting to see where you end up here.

[Patrick]

I've got probably 75 in my head.

[Joe Scales]

Okay.

[Patrick]

I want, I want to pull some in. You're going to catch a fold or two, I would imagine. But I, but I, I, I think that's small enough to where you can catch a lot of calls.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, that, that this is not a spot to check. We need to bet sometimes. You know there are spots when you flop a set, a flop a set and you're like, I need to let them catch up a little bit. Right. This is not one of those spots.

[Patrick]

No. You're playing four handed into a big pot. You've got a couple connectors there. I, you, there's a lot of things that people could have. Yeah, I, I don't think this is one of those. Even a seed bet, you know, just raises everyone's alarm that, you know, hey, knock, knock, knock, I caught my set already. Please bet.

[Joe Scales]

And this is a somewhat splashy game. Right. So we can still get some calls from weaker hands. I was thinking 80 to 85.

[Patrick]

I feel pretty good that we're the close.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. And I was thinking I would probably go on the smaller end of that too. So more like 80. So you're, you're right there. Ed says I flopped middle set on a pretty wet board. I bet 75. So he was exactly on your number.

[Patrick]

I knew I liked Ed.

[Joe Scales]

The cutoff folds, button calls and the limper comes along as well.

[Patrick]

Oh, okay.

[Joe Scales]

So we go three handed to the turn. Oh, and he says the button. As a younger player, hoodie up, headphones in. Clearly comfortable. The limper is an older gentleman who hasn't raced pre flop even once in the last hour. So the pot is now $352. And the turn is the eight of clubs. So now the board is 10 of clubs, nine of hearts, six of clubs, eight of clubs. Straight. Straight draws got there. Flush draws got there. Suddenly our set doesn't feel quite as invincible. The limper checks.

[Patrick]

Boy, oh boy, oh boy. Is this interesting?

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. A seven makes a straight.

[Patrick]

Yep.

[Joe Scales]

Obviously the third club on the board.

[Patrick]

If you check here. I don't think it's the worst thing in the world.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

However, however I can see betting, but at the same time, I feel better that the limper checked, but he's probably waiting for someone to bet too. I think in this scenario, I'm taking my foot off the gas, at least for just a split second, and I'm checking.

[Joe Scales]

So if, if you, if there is a bet, how big of a bet are you willing to call?

[Patrick]

Probably half pot or less, maybe a little bit more. You know, he said the effective stack was a th. So, you know, half pots, 175 or 176. I'd probably go to two and then wait to see how it plays out after that. I mean, I. You got a set, you don't want to throw it away. But at the same time, clubs are there, straights are there. Hell, just for argument's sake, straight and flush is there. I mean, it's. You've got things, you've got things stacking against you very quickly with that, with that card. I mean, that's, I don't know that there's a worst card out there.

[Joe Scales]

So, yeah, I'm checking for sure.

[Patrick]

And I, and that's. I don't know where your bed size is, you know, after this, that you're calling, but that's where I'm at.

[Joe Scales]

I mean, I was thinking I can call. 250 is probably the max that I would call.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I would do two. So.

[Joe Scales]

And, and even then I'm like, that might be a little high, but somewhere in that range.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

Ed says I decide to check. Planning to evaluate the button bets. 220. The limper immediately folds. He says there was no hesitation in the bet, which is good info. Right?

[Patrick]

It is good info. I will say this one. Until you said the limper folded, I was probably out. Heads up. I think I'm okay to see one more. I mean, could also pair the board. Right.

[Joe Scales]

I mean, right.

[Patrick]

I'm calling.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. I think the, the, the no hesitation is polarizing because I feel like if it was a lot of times when they're. There's no hesitation, they had this in their head. This is what they were going to do if it checked.

[Patrick]

Yep.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Patrick]

So, you know, ace of clubs, king of hearts is sitting there with, you know, okay, give me one more club and I've got the nuts. Is, you know, is, is, is very likely. I mean, that's something along those lines. So I'm calling this.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, Ace, jack even. Because then, yeah, you got a twofold. Yeah, I can also win the Straight.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I'm calling. I'm snap calling.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

As soon as the lipper folds, I snap call.

[Joe Scales]

That I don't. I don't know that I snap. I don't know that I snap. But this is where I go to the math, right? This is where the math comes in for me. Because we need to call 220.

[Patrick]

All right. No, explain this one again. I'm gonna. We're gonna grasp this. Me and all the rest of the novices out here are gonna grasp this. All right? So to call 220, you have to have. What?

[Joe Scales]

Well, we need to call 220 to win what, 5, 72.

[Patrick]

His 220 and your 220. So that's 440. So that's 792.

[Joe Scales]

It would be. Yeah, 792. And what we need somewhere around 30% equity.

[Patrick]

Right.

[Joe Scales]

And then you're close because if you divide 220 into the 79227 change. Yeah. So 27, 28%. We can catch any 10, 9, 8 or 6 to win if they have the flush or the straight.

[Patrick]

Correct.

[Joe Scales]

Three tens, three eights, three sixes, and one, nine, three, six, nine, ten. So it's really.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

Okay, but if they're bluffing anything here, which they can be some of the time, then it's a little bit higher than that. So it's really close, right?

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

I think I can call here. Fold the river. Still, if you wanted to get really frisky, you could raise and see where they're at, see if you can get them off of it.

[Patrick]

But no, because if you're already sitting on the flush, you're just going to get re raised and you just wasted, you know?

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, exactly. You can call here and be fine. Yep. So that's what Ed does. He calls, which makes that pot 792.

[Patrick]

Yep.

[Joe Scales]

And the river is two of diamonds.

[Patrick]

Womp, womp, womp.

[Joe Scales]

So the board now is 10 of clubs, 9 of hearts, 6 of clubs, 8 of clubs, 2 of diamonds. Complete brick. That didn't improve their hand, but it certainly didn't improve ours. I'm not putting money in right now. I'm just checking.

[Patrick]

You like stepping in front of semi trucks. I don't. I check.

[Joe Scales]

And if they bet, what are you calling? Anything?

[Patrick]

No, not anything.

[Joe Scales]

I think there's no. I mean, are you calling anything? Is there any bet that you call?

[Patrick]

Anything way over a pot bet or a. Or a push. I'm calling. Cause I think they're bluffing.

[Joe Scales]

Okay. What if they bet? Because I'm thinking around five or 600.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I had four. I think that's if. If they're trying to bait us because they have it.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

They're going to go, you know, a little bit higher than that. I got four. Because I won't be able to live with myself at the end of the day if I don't call something below 4 and at least see that they.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, I think. I think I can call five. I don't know if I can call six, but I can call up to 500.

[Patrick]

But let me tell you something. Win, lose, draw, hate myself. At the end of the day, that dude shoves. After we check, I'm coming right after him.

[Joe Scales]

Okay. God, I really hope he does at this point. Now, Ed checks.

[Patrick]

Smart man.

[Joe Scales]

The button, thinks for a few seconds, then checks back.

[Patrick]

And he shows the ace, jack, ace, queen of clubs. One of them.

[Joe Scales]

Ed says, I table my pocket nines. He shows jack of clubs, seven of clubs for the flush that got there. He. I guess he couldn't pull the trigger on the river.

[Patrick]

Yeah. I gotta tell you, I mean, I don't like calling people names, so I won't do it. But that's not a very smart move. It's. I guess maybe he was hoping we didn't have ace, king, or queen of clubs. Right.

[Joe Scales]

I feel like if we had any of that, if we had the ace high flush, we're definitely pushing king, queen, even. Probably I'm coming back over the top or pushing them. I'm not checking the river. I don't know.

[Patrick]

I don't often thank someone when they're taking my chips out of the center, but I probably look at the guy and say, thanks. Maybe I put him on tilt for the rest of the night.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, I'm not sure I understand that one.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I don't get that one. But you know what, Ed? You. You made out a little bit easier. Less stress on that, you know, on the river.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, I don't think he played.

[Patrick]

I don't think. I don't know what Ed has to say or ask about that. I don't think he played anything wrong.

[Joe Scales]

No, I don't either. His question is if he could have folded on the turn.

[Patrick]

Sure you could have, but I. I

[Joe Scales]

don't have a problem with the turn call. It's close. It's one of those. That's very close. The math probably said to fold there, but also, there's a lot of implied odds. There's, you know, all of the things that you can, you can throw in there to make yourself feel better. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick]

I, I think, I think he played it absolutely fine. I, I think from start to finish, I don't think it changes anything. You know, clearly the guy got there with, with the clubs. I, I don't think you're pushing them off anywhere. I think if you bet on the river, he's calling for sure.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick]

The only thing that's got him beat is three cards. I mean his,

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. I think we have to feel pretty lucky that he didn't put more money in on the, the river. So personally I'm glad Shelf. This is, yeah, this is one of those hands where it's rare but we played this pretty much the same all the way down as Ed did.

[Patrick]

Yeah. All three of us. It does not happen very often, so.

[Joe Scales]

And from that sense, Ed, great job

[Patrick]

out on my back. I'm taking that as a win. Yeah. I don't think he messed up anywhere. He thought through everything. Well, sure, you could have folded. You're right. I mean you threw out the numbers there and I think, you know, just feeling it out, I think you absolutely could. You're not going to lose anything there. Even if he's bluffing. I mean, I, you know, it's, it's numbers wise like you showed us, is not a bad fold that you're going to lose a lot of good, well played hands. It's just going to happen. You're going to lose them. It just is to bluffs, to, you know, other better cards, whatever the case is. So yeah, I, I, I can live with that one all day long. That's an okay loss. I, I lose a lot and I don't like it. But you know, that was okay.

[Joe Scales]

Yep. Good job, Ed.

[Patrick]

You played it well. He lost.

[Joe Scales]

And if anyone has a hand of the week that they would like to know how Patrick and I would play it, send it to podcastingtmagazine.com Patrick, let's

[Patrick]

do it again next week.

[Joe Scales]

Good luck in the playoffs and we'll see you next week.

[Patrick]

Thank you.

[Joe Scales]

It's time for Joe's. Poker has always been a long game, but I think a lot of people on social media forget that. If you open up your phone right now, it looks like everyone is winning. Final tables, rings, bracelets, big stacks, smiles, trophy shots. I mean, if you're not careful, you're gonna start thinking, man, am I doing something wrong? But in reality, poker doesn't care about screenshots. One session doesn't define you. One tournament doesn't define You. And one bad run doesn't erase years of bad decisions. Variance doesn't check Instagram before it shows up. It. It doesn't care if you're due. It just does its thing. And. And a lot of times it's at the worst possible time. But social media has a way of shrinking poker down to highlight reels. Nobody's posting the drive home after busting on the bubble. Nobody's posting the three month downswing where every top pair loses and every flip feels like it's predetermined. Nobody's posting the nights where you did everything right and still lost. And that messes with people you know because you're juggling work and family, travel, responsibilities, and you finally get a weekend to play. You bust early, scroll your phone, and it looks like the rest of the poker world is thriving without you. That's a dangerous comparison game. Poker is a long game. Progress is slow, quiet, and usually boring. Getting better at poker doesn't always come with a trophy. Sometimes it's folding when you used to call. Sometimes it's leaving a session early instead of chasing. And sometimes it's just recognizing tilt before it wrecks your bankroll. None of that looks good on social media, but it's how winning players are built. It's true. Everywhere people are posting promotions, vacations, new cars and big moments, right? Nobody's posting the grind, the setbacks, the doubt, the nights they questioned, everything. Progress isn't usually public, and it's definitely not linear. Just because you don't have something flashy to show doesn't mean you're not moving forward. The people who last are the ones who zoom out. They stop letting one bad session or one great session change the entire story. They understand that success is measured in patterns, not posts. So if you're in a downswing right now, take a breath, keep making good decisions, keep showing up, and keep playing the long game. Because poker doesn't reward the best screenshot, it rewards the best habits over time. That's today's one outer. And that's today's show. I'll see you next week, a team. And until then, I'll see you at the tables. The AntiUp Podcast is a production of

[Patrick]

anyUpMagazine.com contact the show at podcastsnyupmagazine.com or call the show at 540-339-7741. If you'd like to advertise, send an

[Joe Scales]

email to editoryupmagazine.com

[Patrick]

this is Mike Borlow

[Joe Scales]

of Lexicon Valley, and I'm Bob Garfield Are you one of those people who sometimes uses words?

[Patrick]

Do you communicate or acquire information with, you know, language?

[Elle]

Hey, us too.

[Joe Scales]

So join us on Lexicon Valley to

[Elle]

chew over the history, culture and many

[Joe Scales]

mysteries of English, plus some wisecracks.

[Patrick]

Find us on one of those apps where people listen to podcasts.