Chapter 4 Ep. 20 WSOB: Babies, Billions, and Back to the Future

Summary

Ante Up Poker Podcast - Chapter 4 Ep. 20

WSOB: Babies, Billions, and Back to the Future
Host: Joe Scales
Date: May 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

This week’s episode mixes lively conversation, poker strategy, and community updates, anchored in the opening days of the World Series of Poker (WSOP)—dubbed the “WSOB: Babies, Billions, and Back to the Future” for its swirling news of player pregnancies, blockbuster Vegas news, and a sentimental journey through earlier eras of the show. Host Joe Scales and co-host Elle bring humor, insight, and camaraderie, while key segments like “Table Talk,” “Call the Floor,” “Hand of the Week,” and Joe’s “One Outer” offer everything from rules debates to deep hand analysis.

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Table Talk: Community Catchup & WSOB Kicks Off

Timestamps: 03:05 – 21:24

Patreon Game Recap & Community Vibes

• Chicago Joe wins the latest Patreon-friendly tournament. Top three: Chicago Joe, Mortis, and Joe Scales himself.
• Elle celebrates the “Dollar Tree Man” and jokes about crafting with her latest $2 purchase of rocks.
• Community-building: Many players hung out in Discord after busting; returning faces bring warmth and nostalgia.
• Listener feedback sparks a change: Starting stacks for mixed games will increase from 5,000 to 10,000 chips for more play (05:14).

“It really is. It’s a nice, nice relaxing thing to do on a Thursday evening.”
— Elle, [06:00]

Upcoming Games

• June’s schedule: Hold’em on June 4, a mixed game on June 18, both Thursdays.
• Prize pool remains accessible ($5 buy-in, $50 prize, $15 bounty, or merch swaps).

WSOP Becomes WSOB: “Babies Are Popping!”

• Elle and Joe riff on the “WSOB”—with a flood of pregnancy announcements:
  • Daniel Negreanu & Amanda expecting a boy.
  • Adam Hendrix & Kat also expecting.
  • Elle jokes about Daniel’s “Kid Poker” moniker morphing to “Dad Poker.”
  • Speculation: What if expectant dads are deep in a tournament when the baby arrives?

“It’s ironic that kid poker is becoming dad poker.”
— Joe Scales, [08:15]

• “Dirty Diaper” as a mandatory hand: “You should have to play the dirty diaper every time you're dealt the dirty diaper.” — Joe, [08:01]

WSOP Updates, Villains & First Bracelet Winners

• Martin Cabral is the early villain: he stirs controversy, using a hippo “card capper,” taunting players, and breaking rules by leaving mid-hand ([11:01]).

  • Elle: “I would have zero tolerance for this. Day one, fine. Day two, not fine.”

• Other notable personalities:

  • Will Kassouf status unclear—banned last year, may be back.
  • Mike Mizrahi gives the “Shuffle up and deal,” an honor for opening festivities.
  • Phil Hellmuth buys a house in Vegas with a prime view, intends lighter WSOP schedule, reflecting a new trend: more players taking days off in response to the tournament’s grind.

“It’s a grind. There’s a hundred bracelet events. You’ve got to take some time for yourself.”
— Joe Scales, [13:45]

Wellness & Content

• Jasmine Klaperovich cited for her magazine content on wellness and longevity during multi-day events; stretching tips and healthy routines promote “survival” at the tables.

Feature Articles & Home Game Talk

• Dustin Scara, Ante Up Ambassador, pens a feature on travel tips for the magazine.
• John Friedberg (Poker Atlas) is profiled for transforming the Poker Atlas Tour and catering to recreational players.

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Vegas News: Billion-Dollar Deals & Casino Takeovers

Timestamps: 15:46 – 21:02

• Caesars Entertainment Acquired: Fertitta Entertainment (owners of Golden Nugget, Rainforest Cafe, Morton’s, Houston Rockets, US Ambassador to Italy) acquires Caesars for nearly $6B plus all debt—totaling $18B ([16:51]).
• Speculation on possible impacts to WSOP, since it is hosted at a Caesars property but owned by GG Poker under a hosting agreement.
• Throwback Merch: Old-school WSOP logos are back in the Rio’s souvenir shop—act fast (“If you see something you like, buy it, and then make sure you get to take it home with you.” — Elle, [19:19])

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Call the Floor: Rulings on “Absent Player’s Hand”

Timestamps: 22:10 – 32:55

• Listener Ross Lowe’s scenario: At a tournament table, the big blind misses action, wearing earbuds, and the dealer declares the hand dead after repeated verbal cues but no physical action or tapping; the floor supports the dealer’s decision.

• Key Rulings by Elliot Schechter (Resident TD):

  • Dealers generally should not declare hands dead on their own; the floor should be called unless specific prior directive exists ([28:16]).
  • Players’ responsibility: “Both of which are considered part of hand protection. So, not going to show a whole lot of mercy.”
  • Death-by-muck is “ceremonial and mythical” — cards are dead once taken by the dealer, not when they touch the muck ([30:24]).
  • “All they had to do was reach up and keep their cards, which they didn't even do.”—Elliot, [29:02]

"You can't just let the action go by you and expect to have a live hand all the time. This wasn't the case of the dealer not paying attention... This was the player letting the action go by."
— Elliot Schechter, [30:24]

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Hand of the Week: No Limit Omaha Hi-Lo — Back to the Future

Timestamps: 33:08 – 68:27

• This week’s hand comes full circle: originally submitted in 2012, now re-examined with archival commentary from past hosts Scott and Chris, plus present-day breakdown by Joe and Patrick.

Hand Scenario Highlights:

• Game: Weekly 1/2 No Limit Omaha 8 (NLO8), $100–$200 buy-in, deep-stacked, call-heavy home game.
• Hero dealt: K♦ K♠ J♣ 10♣ under the gun, $1,250 stack.
• Table dynamic described as loose, few preflop raises.

Preflop Action

• Hero limps, multiple callers.
• Small blind raises to $10, five calls total.

On the Flop: K♥ 9♥ 5♠

• Small blind (short stack) shoves all-in.
• Big blind tanks, then calls.
• Hero (top set, gutshot straight draw, no low draw) contemplates between call or big raise.
  • Scott and Chris (archival): advocating for a raise/shove in this scenario.
  • Joe: Considered a pot-sized raise but prefers just shoving in this spot (“Top set is not a slowdown hand.”, [48:18]).
  • Patrick: Leaned towards calling but accepts shove logic.
• Hero shoves; folds around until Button (passive) calls all in (with nut flush draw and broadway draw); Big Blind folds, saying he would have called if not for the Button.

Turn/River:

• Turn: 2♠

• River: 4♥

• Small blind shows A♠3♦6♠6♣ (makes a wheel for the low), Button shows A♥K♣Q♠J♥ (nut flush).

Payouts:

• Button scoops side pot ($632), Button and Small Blind split the main ($378); Hero gets none despite strong pre- and flop holdings.

Key Reflections:

• The hand illustrates the brutal variance and “wild west” equity swings of NLO8.
• “In hold’em, you make top set, you feel pretty invincible. In NLO8... you’re 55–65% not 85–95%.” — Joe, [62:04]
• Table consensus: Hero’s play was solid, but it’s a game of scooping, not “quartering” or chasing small edges.

Lessons / Quotes:

“I think that you have to raise there. And really the raise seems to be the effective stack.”
— Scott, [65:33]

“This is one of those hands where the result feels awful. But the decisions were all right.”
— Joe Scales, [64:58]

• Position and scoop potential are everything; “nut lows” are overvalued by less-experienced players.
• Home game reflections: “This captures why 08 is so appealing to some, and not to others.” — Joe, [67:44]

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One Outer: Poker and Life — Changing Gears

Timestamps: 68:48 – 74:07

Joe wraps the episode with a lesson about adaptation—in poker and in life:

"A lot of us keep trying to play today’s game with yesterday’s strategy. The players who thrive... are just the most adaptable." — Joe Scales, [69:48]

Key Messages:

• Always adjust to new situations at the table and off it.
• Sticking to one “gear” limits success; instead, assess and adapt your tactics to fit the moment.
• "The key is recognizing that one gear won’t get you through every situation."

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Memorable Quotes and Moments

• “If you’re not going to let me have my headphones, I’m going to have to have earplugs... There’s no way that I would do well right now with that.”
  — Elle on rules about noisy players, [12:31]
• “The best strategy isn’t about the cards at all. It’s about the situation.”
  — Joe Scales, [68:50]
• “Poker teaches us about adaptation... and the people who do that best usually give themselves the best chance to succeed.”
  — Joe Scales, [71:28]

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Segment Timestamps (Quick Reference)

• Table Talk (community/patron events): 03:05–21:24
• Vegas/WSOP News: 13:45–21:24
• Call the Floor (“hand declared dead” debate): 22:10–32:55
• Hand of the Week (No Limit Omaha Hi-Lo): 33:08–68:27
• The One Outer (life/poker wisdom): 68:48–74:07

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Final Thoughts

A rich, lively episode blending nostalgia and the high-energy chaos of early WSOP with practical strategy, session recaps, and a heartfelt reminder that flexibility—at the table and beyond—is the key to poker and life success. Whether you came for home game gossip, rules nuances, or advanced hand breakdowns, “Ante Up” delivers its signature blend of humor, insight, and poker camaraderie.

Next episode: More recaps, more strategy, and surely more wild hands—see you at the tables!

Transcript

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[Elliot Schechter]

Take

[Podcast Narrator]

your seat. The cards are flying high. Shuffle up and deal at the Aces Lie Longest running show. Yeah, we've seen it all. From the river to the rail we answer the call.

[Joe Scales]

Hello a team, and welcome back to another episode of the Ant Poker Podcast, where every hand is an opportunity, every player is a friend, and every episode is a winning experience. I'm your host Joe Scales, and I want to talk for just a minute about this week's Hand of the Week. I have been looking forward to this for a few weeks now, but we went ahead and recorded the episode or the segment yesterday because I knew it was going to require a little extra work on the back end. The hand was originally submitted back in 2012, and I managed to track down the episode where Scott and Chris broke it down all those years ago. I thought it'd be fun to use those clips, so I sent that off along with the Hand of the Week to have it prepared for the show. And then I was able to weave those tidbits into our current breakdown. I knew it was going to take some extra editing. I guess I didn't know how much extra editing it was going to take. Granted, most of that was on the video side that took so long, but it but it turned into a bigger project than I really expected. But honestly, I loved every minute of it. But more than anything, it reminded me why I fell in love with this show in the first place. You know, way before I was ever in this chair, I was a fan and listening back to those old episodes brought back a lot of memories and reminded me just how much fun they had doing this show. It was really a cool experience and and I think you're going to enjoy hearing the final product. So we also put a lot of work into this month's issue of Antioch Magazine that's out now, and I hope you'll take some time to check it out when you get a chance. Other than that, I don't want to spend too much time talking because we've got a lot to get to today. So that's all I've got for now. Let's get on with the show.

[Podcast Narrator]

Welcome to the show. Stack your chips and chase the dream. Joe's got the booth, his mic's on fire. Elle's got the laugh. She's taking it higher.

[Joe Scales]

Elle and I are back around the poker table. How are you?

[Elle]

A little sassy.

[Joe Scales]

That's a new hairdo.

[Elle]

Sassy, classy and a little kick assy. Oh, weren't expecting that, were you? Yeah. I wouldn't get my hair done today and I did my own nails while I was waiting for my hair to be done. And. And I may have thrown on a brand new summer shirt. So watch out. Just watch out.

[Joe Scales]

All the things to make a. I wouldn't feel good.

[Elle]

You got that right. Happy happy Friday. Lots and lots of things happening. But we have to start out with our Patreon game.

[Joe Scales]

Yes. Congratulations to Chicago Joe.

[Elle]

Good old Chicago Joe. My dollar tree man.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

Yes, I would love Joe. Call me and let me know what you got at the dollar Tree lately.

[Joe Scales]

You got some extra cash now coming your way?

[Elle]

I mean, I just bought two bags of rocks from the dollar tree. It's a true story. To do a craft like what I was. I'm just doing a little small craft anyways. Yeah. Chicago Joe took it down. Top three were Chicago Joe Mortis and yourself.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, I managed to squeeze into that top three.

[Elle]

You sure did. And still continuing to top that leaderboard. But also congratulations to Goddard for taking down the bounty and knocking out USC 19 something. I can't remember your last 1991. There you go. So I didn't play. It was Omaha 8 high low. Not my favorite. And also we just had a lot of stuff coming up in June and I actually took the evening to get caught up on a few things. So sometimes it happens. Sometimes you just can't say yes to everything.

[Joe Scales]

So we had a good turnout though. It was a good, good turnout for a mixed game.

[Elle]

Well, and people were still even on camera and chatting and they weren't even in the game like for, for a long time after. It was fun.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. And we had some people that showed up in the discord that hadn't been there for a while. So it was really nice to see them.

[Elle]

I know.

[Joe Scales]

And, and some good feedback too.

[Elle]

Starting stack I think was 5,000.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

Chips. And people were like, I think we need 10. So I think we'll be doing that next time for mixed games. And they're coming up. They are coming up next month. First and third weeks. Yes, first and third Thursdays in June.

[Joe Scales]

I think it's the fourth and the 18th are the dates.

[Elle]

Hold' em will be on the fourth. Mixed game will be on the 18. 18th. We'll announce what that is. Not really sure what it is yet.

[Joe Scales]

It's a little quick turnaround to have, you know, because we just finished this week and we'll have one next week.

[Elle]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

So it's kind of a quick turnaround,

[Elle]

but we've got good karma seat spinning.

[Joe Scales]

Yep. We got to get the good karma seats going.

[Elle]

Yes.

[Joe Scales]

So look in your email for, for confirmation and then.

[Elle]

And if you haven't joined us, it's five bucks to possibly win 50. And if you knock out somebody who's the bounty, you get 15. I mean, come on. Amazon gift card or some people have also wheeled and dealed and said they want an Annie up sweatshirt instead. And we've done that. So anyhow, it's fun. It. It really is. It's a nice, nice relaxing thing to do on a Thursday evening. We start at 8:30 Eastern and jump

[Joe Scales]

in the discord and chat with us because we had, we had so many people in there last night. It was really fun.

[Elle]

I thought so.

[Joe Scales]

And, and then you've got a lot. You know, World Series started this week, so.

[Elle]

Yeah. Which we're naming instead of the wsop. It's the WSOB for all those babies coming. The babies are popping this year.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, I. It's.

[Elliot Schechter]

We.

[Joe Scales]

We are not calling it the WSOB because poker players are crybabies. Even though that may or may not be true.

[Elle]

Oh, man. I think buckle up for the dad jokes in this segment,

[Joe Scales]

but Daniel Negrano and Amanda announced they're expecting their first child.

[Elle]

So, so exciting. Congratulations.

[Joe Scales]

And it's going to be a baby boy.

[Elle]

Yes. And Adam Hendricks and Kat are expecting as well.

[Joe Scales]

And also a baby boy.

[Elle]

Really?

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

Oh, I hadn't read that part.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

Oh, okay. Well, having met Daniel Negrano virtually and just following and listening to all of, you know, usually the vlog, usually his voice is echoing through our house for the next month and a started yet.

[Joe Scales]

I haven't been able to. To jump on it yet, but I'm teasing.

[Elle]

It's just funny because I'm always like, daniel, Daniel's here again. And then we've met Adam actually in person after, you know, local a few times.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

Football game and then CNM at WSOP and that kind of thing. We're just super excited for both of you all. We jokingly just had a conversation like, wow, what does this change if they're Going to play around the same time that their wives are expecting or like you even made it. You even made a joke about do they have to play the dirty.

[Joe Scales]

The dirty diaper. I mean, I think that should be mandatory. You should have to play the dirty diaper every time you're dealt the dirty diaper.

[Elle]

Yeah, I think you should reach out and let them know how you feel about that. I think they will definitely find what they say.

[Joe Scales]

They will definitely find that funny. Also, it's ironic that kid poker is becoming dad poker.

[Elle]

For sure. We need to send them a gift.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, that's true.

[Elle]

I'm serious. I think we should. We'll have to think of something. Apropos.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, but in all seriousness though, like, how far into a tournament is it okay to say just finish. Just finish the game and win. Is there ever a point?

[Elle]

0.0 point. If I am the one in the hospital bed birthing our child,

[Joe Scales]

do not think about playing any more hands.

[Elle]

Cash your chips then and move on. You need to be there. It is a life changing event. Only happens once for any child.

[Joe Scales]

I mean, some tournaments, that's a, you know, main events, once in a lifetime kind of thing. No. No.

[Elle]

Nope. Not, not. Not convincing me of anything. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Both of them have made appearance in final tables. They've already.

[Joe Scales]

What if it's your first final table?

[Elle]

Nope.

[Joe Scales]

I'm trying for people. No, I'm trying.

[Elle]

No, absolutely not. However, however, we have been glued to watching all the things because of course there's already drama.

[Joe Scales]

Oh, yeah.

[Elle]

There's already all the things. There's villains out there. The first bracelet's been awarded, so I can't even keep up this time of year. There's so many things going on. Our friend Jasmine Klaperovich is putting out a ton of content to help you manage sitting at the tables, playing for long periods of time and taking care of your body. She is a contributor to our magazine. Maybe you can link her profile in the bio so she's actually out there. I don't know if she's running any workshops, but she has tons of great tips on just like stretches to do, things to do. Do particular things that you can add into your routine to stay energized and feel good while you're at the table this summer. So we cannot not mention event number three winner.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. Jerome Nepel. He is a dealer and he won the $500 industry employee event.

[Elle]

I always like seeing who, who takes that down.

[Joe Scales]

So before this win though.

[Elle]

Yeah. So one cash.

[Joe Scales]

One cash for $613.

[Elle]

Yeah. Well, he just multiplied that times a bunch.

[Joe Scales]

$4,000.

[Elle]

Yeah. Well played, sir. Bracelet. $64,000 and congratulations.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

Like, really and truly. That's exciting.

[Joe Scales]

And then you mentioned Martin Cabral, the villain, is. Is at the.

[Elle]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

Wsop. He's already stirred up some. Some controversy.

[Elle]

He's got some hippo that he, like, puts over people's hands and trying to smell the bluff.

[Joe Scales]

The hippos.

[Elliot Schechter]

The bluff.

[Elle]

The bluff. The bluff. He says hippos was the bluff.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

Yeah. Well, you know, I admire the man who literally was like, you're just like a pull string toy. Like, I can just pull your string and you just say the same things over and over again. Maybe you should get a new stick. Like, maybe you should have. He was like, maybe you should get somebody else writing your. And I was like, oh, oh, okay. Okay.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Podcast Narrator]

That was.

[Elle]

Impressed with that. Most impressed with that gentleman.

[Joe Scales]

That was right after he had a big controversy because he had gotten up from the table while he was in a hand, and they called the floor over. They just. I mean, they gave him a warning, which I think Elliot would agree that

[Elle]

that would day one of wsop. Fine. Day two, not fine for me. You've already gotten your warning. You know what you're doing. You absolutely knew that you got it from the table. And if you for some reason didn't know that your body levitated from your seat and walked away from the table, we're going to let you know that it actually did happen. And your hand is dead.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Elle]

Zero tolerance right now. Zero for that.

[Joe Scales]

I have not seen Will Kasuf yet. He.

[Elle]

You mean. You mean heard Will Kasuf?

[Joe Scales]

Fair.

[Elle]

Okay.

[Elliot Schechter]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Fair.

[Elle]

They both are. Just.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, that.

[Elle]

That's when I'm gonna have to say Matt Savage and the rest of the folks with. With the TDA rules. I gotta have. I gotta have earplugs at least. If you're not gonna let me have my headphones, I'm gonna have to have earplugs. There's no way that I. That I would do well right now with that.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, I know. I think Kasuf can still play. He was banned for the last part of the World Series last year, but I don't think that carried over into this year.

[Elle]

I'm not sure. We'll have to research that. But anyhow, it's already lots of fun. Lots and lots and lots of fun stuff happening. And then, of course, Mike. Mike Mizrahi welcomed.

[Joe Scales]

Welcomed everybody in Shuffle up and deal.

[Elle]

He got to. Got to announce that which is really, really cool. Not to mention Phil Helmuth.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

He just bought a house in Vegas.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

And it looks directly at the sphere. He was giving small, very small peek at being there. His, his day one was everybody else's Day two he wanted to make sure everybody knew that. But yeah, you should be seeing him there as well. Not sure he'll be playing many, many days in a row.

[Joe Scales]

But no, you know I, I don't blame him. Been a big theme this year is that people are already talking about taking more days off than they have in the past. You know because it's got to, it's, it's a grind. There's a hundred bracelet events.

[Elle]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

So you've got to take some time for yourself now. I mean you know like most of us if we go we're not playing the entire summer. We're playing you know, a week here and a week there or maybe just one week total.

[Elle]

Yeah. It just depends on what fits into your, your budget and, and your time schedule. I mean we've even got our ambassador, Dustin Scara who would go for weeks at a time in the past. This year he's like I'm just doing some piecemeal stuff and I'm picking, I'm being very intentional about how I'm picking my game and which events I'm going to play and how I'm going to travel there and so on and so forth. He actually even has written a really cool article this month in the magazine.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. Speaking of Dustin. Yeah the magazine is out so if you want to check that out. But Dustin Scara has a really cool article about tips and tricks. Not just for playing like where to stay and you know, what's within walking distance and, and things like that.

[Elle]

So he's a very intentional, thoughtful person who plans things well and it works really well for him. So thanks Dustin for sharing all of that. And our feature article this month is John, John Friedberg.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

From Poker Atlas and we really enjoyed being able to have him with us.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, he super great guy for sure. Very humble, very down to earth and you know Poker Atlas is just exploding.

[Elle]

Really is.

[Joe Scales]

And you know they've got the Poker Atlas tour. He talks a little bit about that. Some of, I mean the Poker Atlas tours buy ins are right in line with, with our audience too. So check them out. I really enjoyed having that interview. So check that out for sure.

[Elle]

But another huge Vegas news.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

And then huge, huge Vegas. I even watched the Vegas news yesterday. I did. Because they did an excellent job Covering this story. Huge casino deal. Caesars has been sold. Caesar's Entertainment has been acquired.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. They've. They've agreed to being acquired by Fertitta Entertainment. I think that's how you pronounce it. He is. He is the owner of the Golden Nugget. So.

[Elle]

Right.

[Joe Scales]

Which I. Lot of things.

[Elle]

Right. Which was the thing, the reason, another reason why I watched the news out of Vegas is because they could explain it and actually show behind them on the screen like, it's this property and this property and this property.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Elle]

He owns the Golden Nugget and the Rainforest Cafe and Morton Steakhouse and the Houston Rockies. It's. And, and, and, and, and so. And this guy's like the US Ambassador to Italy. Yeah. Hello. I need to meet this man. He's.

[Joe Scales]

He's doing a lot.

[Elle]

He is.

[Joe Scales]

So the. Originally, when things came out, they, you know, they were like, oh, it sold for almost $6 billion. And I was like, wow.

[Elle]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

And then what you, what you see when you get further is he also agreed to acquire all of their debt.

[Elle]

Huge.

[Joe Scales]

So it ends up being almost $18 billion.

[Elle]

That was a huge acquisition, and I'll be excited to see what he does with it. So, lots and lots of news going on. I don't know if this is going to affect WSOP at all, because isn't the WSOP hosted in a Caesar's property? Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, we don't know.

[Joe Scales]

We'll see. Yeah. It's interesting because I think a lot of people still believe that Caesars owns the World Series of Poker. No, but that's actually owned by. What is it? NSUs?

[Elle]

GG Poker. They owned it.

[Joe Scales]

GG Poker. Yeah, but with Caesars, they have that long standing agreement to host the World Series, so.

[Elle]

Well, I'm sure that was kind of in the deal. Like, yeah, this has already been agreed upon, and this is going to be honored, so maybe there's going to be another discussion for next year. Yeah, we'll have to see. Another thing that I also was really interested in seeing is the souvenir shop. I call it the souvenir shop, but they're bringing all the old school logos back from the early days of the wsop. And so if you're interested in, you know, a sweatshirt or a T shirt or a coffee mug or a hat or something as your souvenir from playing this summer, some really cool throwback designs. Like, I was actually kind of sad because we still are not very sure we're going to be able to make it this year. And I was like, ooh, I might be calling Dustin and asking, can you purchase a shirt for me? And I will Venmo you.

[Joe Scales]

It's funny because I said I hadn't watched Daniel's vlog, but I did see at, you know, the, whatever, social media, wherever I saw it.

[Elle]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

I did see a little clip from his video from his vlog and I was like, oh, that's a cool jacket. Where did he get that? It was one of those jackets.

[Elle]

They have done an excellent job of planning things this year and I think they're even opening a different store somewhere as well. I'm not. I'm again, information overload in the last, you know, six or seven days. But check it out. Definitely go online and, and see what they're offering because I can guarantee you that merch is not going to stick around. It's going to be one of those, like, grab and go.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. Remember when the last time we were there, we were watching as the. As the gift store just continued to empty out.

[Elle]

Yeah. Because I even said, we'll just swing back by next week. And we. We did that. Big mistake. Yeah, big mistake. If you see something you like, buy it and then make sure you get to take it home with you. So anyhow, I think there's just been a lot of changes. We'll have to see what this new acquisition does for the whole environment on the Strip. I mean, honestly, that's one thing that. I mean, I'm kind of keeping my ear to the pavement going.

[Joe Scales]

Huh?

[Elle]

Lots and lots. I mean, lots of changes.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. I really wonder. I really wonder, you know, if this is going to help kind of merge the downtown and the Strip properties a little bit.

[Elle]

Well, it would be nice.

[Joe Scales]

It is in Tillman Fertitta's best interest to kind of combine those with Golden Nugget being downtown. All those other Caesar properties on the Strip would be really, really cool to see that. And then, you know, you've got the A's coming in down. Down the Strip. So a lot happening down there.

[Elle]

Yeah, possibly. I can tell you something, though. You. You say merging those two. Um, America turns 250 this summer. They are actually having fireworks every week Downtown and on the Strip separately. Yes.

[Joe Scales]

Really?

[Elle]

Yeah. So you said that and immediately went see it. Well, that's another thing I saw on social media. Yeah, there's going to be a fireworks show. I don't know which day, if it's a Friday or Saturday. I think it's towards the end of the week. But they are doing fireworks Downtown and on the strip. The biggest obviously display is going to be July 4th weekend.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Elle]

But yeah, they're doing it all summer long. Well, that's cool. So. Well, lots, lots of exciting things in the mix and happening and feel like we've kind of ping pong balled around all of it.

[Joe Scales]

And that's only one week of the series of Poker.

[Elle]

Oh, yeah, it's always, what do they call it, Summer camp. Yeah, summer camp for poker players.

[Joe Scales]

Yep.

[Elle]

It's going to be fun.

[Joe Scales]

And we're going to have a little game of our own this weekend.

[Elle]

Yeah, we have quite a few people. I'm, I'm actually a little nervous. We don't have enough seats because we have two tables going. But home game's gonna be fun. We're doing subs and subs and what, bags of chips or something?

[Joe Scales]

Whatever we put together.

[Elle]

Yeah, something easy and not messy to eat at the table. All right, right, exactly.

[Joe Scales]

So we've got a lot of work to get ready for that too. So as always, it's a pleasure being around the table with you.

[Elle]

Likewise.

[Podcast Narrator]

Elliot's wisdom cuts like a blade. Dropping true bombs with a poker. Big blinds, big stakes, raise it up. Let's make no mistake.

[Joe Scales]

Elliot Schechter joins us each week to say how he would run situations that come up in your games. And he's with us again this week. Elliot, how's it going?

[Elliot Schechter]

Pretty well, thanks. Things are good. How you doing today?

[Joe Scales]

I'm doing well. I'm doing well. I'm gonna pose this question to you because Ross Lowe sent in the call the floor this week, but he actually he's going to be joining the Alaskan cruise in August. So excited to see that. But he asked me he's going to be coming in a little bit early to San Francisco and he wanted to take his wife out to a nice meal and he asked me where we're going for that. I've never been to San Francisco either, so I feel like you're more qualified to answer this question than me, so I'm going to pass the buck a little bit.

[Elliot Schechter]

Excellent food town. I will email you a list of recommendations including some of the latest Michelin stars that were announced in San Francisco. Plus some really good not so Michelin sites like Home of the original Mission Burrito. So the really big overstuffed burritos you find in California, I guess Chipotle would be a somewhat reasonable facsimile. Is based on mission style burritos, but our burritos are much better. So yeah, I'LL send you a list of my favorite joints.

[Joe Scales]

Awesome.

[Elliot Schechter]

Can you pass it along?

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, I'll do that. Well, his call the floor is an interesting situation. He says, this is from a recent tournament that has me curious about a ruling. I've never seen a situation where a dealer can declare someone's hand dead. Blinds are 1000, 2000. Under the gun limps for 2000. Then action folds to the cutoff, who raises to 7000. It folds to the big blind. Now the big blind has earbuds in listening to music and clearly isn't paying attention. The dealer says, big blind, action is on you. And there's no response. Few more seconds go by and the dealer says it again, louder, but the big blind still doesn't even look up. At this point, the cutoff is getting anxious for the hand to continue and starts getting irritated because the whole table is waiting. After a few more seconds, the dealer loudly announces, your hand is dead and physically picks up the big blind's cards to move them toward the muck. He says, important detail. The cards have not touched the muck yet. That's when the big blind realizes what's happening, pulls one earbud out and says, wait, what? I wasn't folding. The dealer tells him it's too late because the hand was already verbally declared dead before the cards were pulled in. The big blind argues and asks for the floor. The floor comes over and listens to the dealer explain the situation. The floor backs the dealer and says the hand is dead. It's the player's responsibility to protect his cards and keep the action moving. So he says his questions for you, Elliot, are can a dealer just declare a player's hand dead? And since the cards had not actually made it to the muck, should the player have been able to stop the dealer and get his cards back? Looking forward to hearing your these are

[Elliot Schechter]

good questions, although I would have to say that the first question is not specific enough because in most cases, the dealer cannot just declare somebody's hand dead. In this case, it's entirely possible. Certainly players are responsible for paying attention and maintaining the pace of the game in fairness to the rest of the players. So obviously with their earbuds in, they couldn't hear a thing. The dealer probably could have been a little bit better with hand motions. Instead of just telling him it was their turn, they could have actually rather aggressively tap the table in front of them, which is what you would do. I mean, what if you have a player who's deaf? What you're going to tell Them they can't play or they have to actually hear the dealer say it's your turn or what the bet is. That's not right. So the dealer, I don't think gave them enough of an opportunity, just kept telling them it was their turn. Never tap the table in front of them, which is not unimportant. It could be that this player was already warned maybe more than once, and now they're not getting second and third chances. If you got to call the floor over every time the same player is not playing in turn or paying attention, eventually it's going to get monotonous. And a player doesn't have a right to waste that kind of time with everybody.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Elliot Schechter]

I'm not really in favor of the dealer grabbing the hand here. Again, I think that's incredibly aggressive. I think the floor needs to be called before the dealer ever does something like this. The dealer is just there to facilitate the game. The decision to kill or not kill a hand still rests with the floors and the tournament directors. So I'm not in favor of it unless it was absolutely a prior direction saying, from now on, if this player doesn't play in turn, feel free to take his cards, we're done. If you want to listen to music or podcasts or anything else, you're at the risk of what could be some detrimental decision making. But I'm not in favor of the dealer doing that unless specifically directed to do that.

[Joe Scales]

Right. I think it's. He must have really been into whatever music or podcast he was listening to because you've got to pay somewhat attention to what's going on. Like, I mean, apparently action had been stopped at him for a little while at least.

[Elliot Schechter]

So it does seem like it was longer than it should have been.

[Joe Scales]

Right. So I don't hate that the floor backed the dealer up, but at the same time, maybe this is one of those situations where you talk to him after the fact and say, you know, maybe pulling him away from tape more

[Elliot Schechter]

the hand is dead. And pulling him away from the table and explaining what happened. Yeah, not going to have a whole lot of mercy. At some point, all they had to do was reach up and keep their cards, which they didn't even do. So they didn't protect their hand either by protecting their cards or by protecting their spot in the betting order. They did none of that. Both of which are. Are considered part of hand protection. So not going to show a whole lot of mercy. I'm going to explain to them off the table that they need to do a better Job of paying attention and protecting their hand.

[Joe Scales]

But you're right there, there is something for the dealer to learn from this as well. As far as like other ways to get the person's attention. Like you said, wrapping the table a little bit or something, you know, but at the same time, my gosh, don't be the guy that they have to keep wrapping the table to get your attention.

[Elliot Schechter]

No, you should never be that person.

[Joe Scales]

Now the second part of his question though is since the cards didn't actually make it to the muck, should he have been able to get. I've never heard anybody say too late. I said it verbally. So you can't have them. So

[Elliot Schechter]

no. Just because they haven't officially touched the muck doesn't mean they're not dead. Death by contact is mostly ceremonial and mythical and really isn't truly a concept. The dealer is considered an extension of the muck. And playing back to the previous statement, the fact that they didn't protect their hand in any way, shape or form, plus the dealer grabbing them combines to make a dead hand were done there. They had plenty of chances and took none of them. So, yeah, didn't need to actually physically touch the muck in any way. Yes, they are identifiable and retrievable. Tough. You can't just let the action go by you and expect to have a live hand all the time. This wasn't the case of the dealer not paying attention in a burn and turned. Happens where you put out a premature card on the board. This was the player letting the action go by at some point. That's a dead hand. If you let enough people act and the dealer is considered a player in that order. So enough people act behind you and you haven't acted on your hand, that's on you, that's not on the dealer. Especially since the dealer tried to get their attention. I can't have a whole lot of sympathy or mercy in this spot. Pay attention. See how that works?

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, it sounds like this was both right and wrong. The. The dealer probably, unless there was some kind of arrangement already, the dealer should have brought the floor over instead of declaring that player's hand dead.

[Elliot Schechter]

Correct.

[Chris]

And

[Joe Scales]

at the same time, you know, if, if you're slowing the action down, like you said, there's not a lot of sympathy to be had for, for you losing your hand.

[Elliot Schechter]

You're slowing the game down and not protecting your hand. At some point, the action's got to move forward. Everybody's on the clock.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. So Ross, there you go. I appreciate you Sending that in. We look forward to seeing you in August. And if anyone has a call of floor that they would like to know how Elliott would raise or would raise, Elliot would rule, send it to.

[Elliot Schechter]

Come on.

[Joe Scales]

Send it to podcastnyupmagazine.com Elliot, we'll see you next week.

[Elliot Schechter]

Absolutely. I'll see you then.

[Podcast Narrator]

Patrick's a fish, but he's learning fast. He's all in. This hand might be his last.

[Joe Scales]

Welcome to Hand of the Week, where Patrick, our resident fish, and I dive into listener submitted hands each week. We tackle everything from questionable bluffs to hero calls and the hands that make you scratch your head. Whether you're looking for strategy tips or you just want to see if you would have played it any better, we've got you covered. Patrick, what's up?

[Patrick]

Well, let me tell you, little peek behind the curtain for everyone. Joe was right. I did, in fact 100% forget about what ham we were playing. So I'm just super excited. No, it's fun. It's fun to change it up. It is, it is. Like I'm not old enough to, you know, be stuck in my ways. My grandfather was stuck in his ways. You gotta, you gotta branch out. You gotta have fun with other things. So Omaha High Low. I like it.

[Joe Scales]

I have been, I have been looking forward to doing this for weeks, actually. So when this hand was sent in originally to Scott and Chris, it was sent in like February or something like that in 2012. So we had the idea, Andrew actually had the idea of sending it in again, seeing how you and I play this, if it's very much different from the way they would have played it. And when, when I had this set up, I actually had the person who was setting it up for us because, you know, we don't see the hands beforehand. We, it's, it's all set up beforehand in a format so that we don't know what's going on. And in doing that, I also had them pull clips from the hand being played in 2012. So hopefully this doesn't get too confusing as we, as you and I talk about how we're going to do it. We'll have Scott and Chris talk about how they did it and then we'll have Andrew reveal how it was actually played. So hopefully we can all keep track

[Podcast Narrator]

of

[Joe Scales]

and when Andrew sent this in. So Andrew, the way this all started, Andrew sent in a call the floor, and he had mentioned the, this idea of sending this in. And when he sent in the call the floor, I used his last name But I noticed when he sent this in that he asked Scott and Chris not to use his last name. So I'm going to respect that this time, even though I did it. Didn't know that before. So Andrew is our hand of the week this week. And he says this is a regular weekly 1, 2, no limit, Omaha high low. He says, yes, that's right. 1, 2, no limit. 0, 8.

[Scott]

All right.

[Joe Scales]

MLO 8 is not for the faint of heart. I could probably send you a hand of the week from this game every week. Yeah, I can imagine how many crazy hands there are in this, but.

[Patrick]

Oh, God, I can't imagine.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, I mean, PLO is bad enough. This isn't probably going to be that much of a big variation on pot limit. Although pot limit does limit you a little bit. So, like, if, if, if the pot is 50 bucks, then you're not able to just go all in and get all the low cards to fold. So he says all players are fairly familiar with each other's game. Buy ins are 100 to 200, although if you're stuck 400, you're allowed to buy in for 400 more. That's interesting. Eight players are at the table, a few have gone home broke, and one has cashed in. A pretty big winner. We're about six hours into the game at this point. Wow. We've been playing for a minute.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

And he actually, he gives all of the stacks here. I don't know that I'm going to run through all that unless it looks like we need it. He says the game usually has a lot of limp pots with many callers, the pot is raised maybe a quarter of the time pre flop, and then it's usually to 8 to $15.

[Patrick]

Okay.

[Joe Scales]

Small blind has recently rebot and has not been hitting any cards. We're under the gun and we get dealt the king of diamonds, king of spades, jack of clubs, 10 of clubs. And let me go back up here to his little. How much is in our stack? Under the gun. That's us. We have $1,250. So we're doing all right.

[Patrick]

Correct me if I'm wrong here there, Joe, but king of diamonds, king of spades, jack of clubs, 10 of clubs. I don't think we're going to be winning the low.

[Joe Scales]

That is correct. Because we, we need some low cards and we have none. So we have zero.

[Patrick]

So. Okay, all right. I mean, they're still good cards, our kings, you know, gotta use two of them anyway. So, you know, Jack, 10 suited clubs connectors. I mean we're, I feel pretty good, right?

[Joe Scales]

I mean, yeah, we've got a decent high.

[Patrick]

Yeah. So he said only a quarter of the time. I mean at this table. I mean only he said only a quarter of the time are they raising pre flop. And normally it's you know, 8 to 15. Why want to be the quarter of the time here? So I, and I, 10 was already in my head anyways, you know, So I guess that does fit. So that's where I'm going.

[Joe Scales]

I'm on the other end. I, I, I like this hand a lot less in 08, whether it be pot limit or no limit. Because the idea is to play to scoop. Right. And.

[Patrick]

Right.

[Joe Scales]

The only way we scoop is if no low cards come. And so we're also under the gun. If somebody has any ace down the road they're going to be calling well, ace, deuce, ace, whatever. Yeah. I think, you know, in, in regular plo. Yeah. This is a, this is a mandatory raise but this is 08. So we don't have, we have zero low potential. No ace. So I feel like we can make a lot of expensive second best highs.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

So I think I personally, I'm going to go ahead and limp here. I'll call. You know, somebody wants to raise to that. Whatever. He said 8 to 15. But I think I'm going to limp and try to get to see a flop for cheap. Now let's see if I can pull this off. Let's see what Scott and Chris did pre flop.

[Scott]

I have to admit that I'm not a real big fan of playing cards that can't scoop if there's a low. I realize high hands can scoop if there's no low, but that's a big if. I'm probably going to play it. I don't know if I'll play it for a raise. I probably would play it for a raise. I probably would play it for a raise if I'm going to play it. That's the thing. This is the kind of hand where I want to get those marginal lows out. So I'd probably make it 10 to go.

[Chris]

Okay. This is the hand I like when I'm on the button and there's been a lot of limping involved. This is where you know that everybody's really going low. All the low cards are out, particularly the aces. But under the gun it's a different hand, I think. Yeah.

[Scott]

And that's the other thing I wanted to say too is position is real important. I would love to have this in position. I hate having another gun.

[Chris]

I also like having it when I'm sitting on 1250 and the next closest person to me is 525. Yeah. And most people are well below that. So at this point, if I've been running that good, I'm gonna feel a little frisky here and put in a raise and see what happens. But I'm gonna be very cautious on the flop, I think.

[Scott]

Would you ever consider folding this hand disposition the way it's come down?

[Elliot Schechter]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris]

If I don't have. If I'm the short stack here probably.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Chris]

I just like the fact that I have the. The big stack. So you were gonna raise to what, like 10?

[Scott]

I guess. 10.

[Podcast Narrator]

Okay.

[Chris]

Yeah, I'll probably raised about that. I guess if they go all the way up to 15, I might go to the high end just to really kind of thin to feel it out as much as I can.

[Joe Scales]

All right. So they are both raising. One's raising to 10, the other one's going to 15. It sounds like. So.

[Patrick]

Yeah. All right.

[Joe Scales]

Andrew limps.

[Patrick]

Okay.

[Joe Scales]

He says disguising my play. I've been both raising and flatting with big pairs. The hand has no low possibilities, but could scoop with all big cards on the board. Right. It has straight flush and straight flush possibilities, though flush is non nut. Of course. If the flop comes all red or wheel cards, I can get away from this easily. But I'd like to play this pot multi way pre flop rather than chasing everyone away early. I can also call a raise or re raise if the pot is raised later. Under the gun plus one calls. Under the gun plus two calls. Hijack calls cut off, fold. And the small blind raises to $10. The Big Blind calls.

[Patrick]

So where they're.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Okay, so

[Joe Scales]

what do you want to do here?

[Patrick]

Fold, Run away and watch the chaos. I mean, I mean again, I listen, it's still a good hand. I think it's still good enough to call that. I think I. I really am. I mean, I was there anyways and.

[Joe Scales]

Right. It's not. What is it? It's $8. So. Yeah, I don't think anybody's folding for $8. It's kind of a weird amount, honestly. But I think that many callers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Folding is not an option. We're just calling, I think continue the story we were telling.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I feel like that's just all you're doing now is just kind of boosting the pot. I mean that's, you know, with that bet. I don't yeah, anyway, I'm calling.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. Yeah. I think the danger with raising here is getting re raised or isolating ourselves against hands like ace, deuce, something something or even worse, ace, ace deuce something. Yeah. So yeah, let's just call and see a flop. Lets see what Scott and Chris did.

[Scott]

Given his comments, he can literally make it like 42 to go now or something. Is that his intention? I don't know. I wasn't playing the hand that way so it's hard for me to now do what he was thinking of doing.

[Chris]

Yeah. My only fear about raising here is I don't want to get re raised again. I don't want to get into a raising war here with this because what's

[Scott]

the point of raising there anyway with all those callers behind if you're only making a 10. You know. You know what else too is I forgot it's no limit. It's not pot limit. So when he was saying before you can make it 42 so you can make it whatever he wants. I don't know why. I'm just so used to making it PLL8.

[Chris]

But yeah, it's kind of weird to play no limit.

[Scott]

I guess he could have made it any way you wanted.

[Chris]

We already have the small big blind calling so might as well just call here and we get a pretty decent pot there and we'll see what happens on the flop. Guess that's what I would do.

[Scott]

Yeah, I guess so.

[Joe Scales]

Sounds like we're all on the same page. We're just calling here.

[Elliot Schechter]

Yep.

[Joe Scales]

See Andrew says I call so it is unanimous. He says in this situation I like playing against small blind as he could be tilting and not a real threat to my stack. I stacked him off several hands ago and now he might be looking for revenge. Big blind could threaten a good portion of my stack. Let me go back up here. Big blind has big blind has 525 in his stack. The small blind started this hand with 89. So I understand where he's getting at with the fact that not a big concern with the small blind but the big blind. The big blind hat it could could take a chunk. And he says the big blind is a very good player but I have position. I'm not too worried about what anyone else might do. So under the gun plus one calls. Under the gun plus two calls. The hijack folds and the button calls. So we go six players to the flop and there is $62 in the pot. The flop comes king of hearts, nine of hearts, five of spades. The small blind pushes all in for $79. The big blind thinks for about a minute and calls.

[Patrick]

Yeah. Yeah. All that. Well, there's our king.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. We have top set. There is no low. The, the lowest card they would have to get runner runner to get a low.

[Elle]

Right.

[Patrick]

So I think, I think we're in. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think we're in better position than we were pre flop. By all means.

[Joe Scales]

I think so.

[Patrick]

I'm just curious. I mean my gut says just the call and again maybe that's just the novice in me not playing these, you know the, this, this game enough. But that's, that's my gut is just to call it as well.

[Joe Scales]

Here's what we know. Folding's not an option. Correct. The question is call or race. I don't, I want to say that I don't think it's much of a question but the small blind shove seems almost irrelevant. He only had crumbs left anyway.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

So they were probably shoving just about any, any flop. The real decision is about the big blind. The, the other guys. Andrew said he does. He wasn't too worried about anything that they did. I think the big blind didn't snap call. You know he, he tanked for about a minute he says and then he called. That would lead me to believe he does not have a monster of any kind. They may have the heart draw even. Even with that it may not be the nut flush draw. So Even. Yeah, I think, I think I want to raise big here. In this type of a game like you said. I know you haven't played this a whole lot but in this type of a game, top set is not a slowdown hand. It's. It's not a slow down hand in pot limit. It's certainly not going to be a no limit if, if we just call under the gun plus one. Under the gun plus two and the button, I'll still get to see some correct ish price to continue with garbage. So I want to raise here and I want to raise big. My initial thought was to make it 300 but the big blind started with 525 and called the 10. So he still has 515. Maybe.

[Patrick]

All in.

[Joe Scales]

All in.

[Elliot Schechter]

I don't know.

[Joe Scales]

I'm. I'm thinking let's just go 300. That's about pot. I, I didn't count what the pot is with but somewhere in that area. Maybe a little bit over.

[Patrick]

Yeah, it's a little bit over because what we had 2. What do you say 79 79. So it's 8160. It's 220 and change, give or take. So, yeah, a little bit over. Yeah, it's not bad. I mean, that's, I, I, I had. Well, so when you're right, there's only two, two thoughts here. It was, you're not folding. You're either calling or a pretty significant one. I had two in my head, so that was obviously a little bit on the smaller side. But, you know, I don't know if that would have done the trick. But yeah, I, I'm, I'm good there.

[Joe Scales]

All right, so let's see what's gotten crystal, dude.

[Scott]

Well, I mean, God, I mean, obviously I'm not fold and have top set.

[Chris]

No, no, I don't think anybody's going to ever think about fold.

[Scott]

It's just whether or not we're going to re. Raise. I think I'm raising here. It'd be great to shut him out so that, you know, what kind of hand could the 525 guy have? You know, set of nines. And then you want him to have a set of nines. Is he really going to call off his stack for a draw? Probably not. I like isolating with that dead money out there and shoving. So, I mean, I would, I would probably shove. So, I mean, if I lose, I'm still up. I still have 700.

[Chris]

What I might do is bet 525, which is the same thing. But I just think that shove is scary to people.

[Scott]

So psychologically, you're thinking psychological there.

[Chris]

I mean, it depends on your players. I mean, if you're playing with the same people all the time and they're very smart, then they're not going to fall for that. But I think there's some psychological to. I'm all in. And they know you have a thousand there and you push it all in, and they're looking like, oh, forget it. Whereas if you just say 500, it sounds like you're making a calculated raise. Even though for them it's still it all in. You know what I mean?

[Scott]

Right.

[Joe Scales]

So they're basically, they're putting it all in. It makes sense to me. I think I, this is the difference. Here's the difference between pot limit and no limit, right? With, with no limit, you can put pot limit, and maybe you're more likely to get a call. But I was, I mean, I, I said 300. Basically, they're saying, put it all in. I don't disagree with that. I think if, if I think that's probably a better idea than than what I said with the 300. Andrew says I think for about two minutes and analyze the situation. Two minutes is a long time. The pot is now $220. I have top set and a gut shot straight draw. Currently the nuts with a redraw to the nut straight and top full house but no heart redraw. I have no low possibility but board would have to come running low cards to make a low get there. I figure the small blind has nothing yet. I figure small blind has nothing and is just pushing hoping to double up. I figure big blind has some kind of straight wrap like Queen Jack 10x876x or maybe a lower set says big blind and big blind and I have played some sizable pots previously over the last month. I'd really like to stack him at this point and even if I can't, there's a lot of money already in the pot. I push all in for my remaining 12.40. Effectively only 515 to cover the biggest stack left at the table. I figure this pushes out some of the weaker draws and lets me isolate with big blind for a nice sized pot or just the main. Yeah. So I'm the only one that didn't shove.

[Patrick]

No, but I do think it was.

[Joe Scales]

Well that's fair. That's fair. Of all the things, that's the worst of them.

[Patrick]

That's the worst. That's the worst of the decisions.

[Joe Scales]

Under the gun plus one folds. Under the gun plus two folds. Button calls his remaining 395 and Andrew says hmm, I wasn't expecting this. However, I didn't exactly mind it either. The button is generally passive and will call off his chips with non nut hands. I assumed he was calling maybe with some kind of flush draw. Maybe ace deuce of hearts maybe also had a pair of fives or something in there. At this point of course it didn't matter as the decisions were made. Small blind is already all in. Big blind thinks for about two minutes, realizes he is in a spot and folds saying he would have called if the button hadn't. Yeah, I didn't expect that either. So now the main pot is $378 with a side pot of $632.

[Patrick]

Why would there be a side pot if the other two are already in?

[Joe Scales]

Well, the small blind was the only one that was in. I thought the button called his remaining 395. So the button had 395 left and so he called our all in with his remaining 395. So we had the $79.

[Patrick]

I'm following. Yes, yes, yes. I'm following you. Never mind, we're good.

[Joe Scales]

So the side pot is $632 and Andrew says pair the board. Pair the board, please pair the board. Small blind announces I need runner. Runner. So. So he must be looking for the low.

[Patrick]

He's going low.

[Joe Scales]

The turn is the two of spades, which there's part of it. The small blind announces, that's a good card for me. The river is the four of hearts. Oh, that's a brutal card. No, no, the small blind announces that's a very good card for me. Oh, I think we just lost with the flush. And now the, and the low. Oh, small warning shows ace of spades, three of diamonds, six of spades, six of clubs. Oof. He says he pushed with basically nothing. So he got the, the wheel. Ace, deuce, three, four, five. Actually he got six, five, four, three, deuce two.

[Patrick]

Yeah. Man.

[Joe Scales]

Wow. Button shows ace of hearts, king of clubs, queen of spades, jack of hearts.

[Patrick]

There it is.

[Joe Scales]

So he called with top pair in a gut shot straight draw and the nut flush draw. The nut flush draw. Got there. Button takes the side pot of 632 with an Ace, King, Jack, 94 flush. No qualifying low. The button takes half main of the main pot with ace, king, jack, nine, four flush. Small blind takes half the main with ace, deuce, three, four, five wheel.

[Patrick]

Oh, that's brutal.

[Joe Scales]

Button never revealed what he called the original $79 bet with.

[Scott]

He made it 10 bucks after all those limpers with Ace Trey, 6, 6. Because the Ace was suited and he had the second nut load pre flop.

[Chris]

Yeah, it's definitely a calling hand there and see what happens.

[Scott]

Oh, I'm dying to know what the button had now. It's gotta be hearts.

[Chris]

Chose ace of hearts, king of clones, queen of spades, jack of hearts.

[Scott]

Oh man. So what a cooler first. He's seeing that the guy has top pair, top kicker, he's got a straight draw and nut flush draw. See, that's exactly what happened to me in the Monday night of the home game. We had. I basically had the same thing. I had all these outs and the nut draw and none of it got there.

[Joe Scales]

So he says my question is not did I play this right? Because I think I did. Even with the ugly river card costing me a thousand dollar pot. But more, what would you do? And have you ever played no limit 08 and what might your strategies be?

[Patrick]

Yeah, I don't think we play it any different, clearly. I mean, I think you just, you got runner. Runnered. I mean.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. You played the hand very well.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

I will say, I mean, too many, too many players will approach 08 too emotionally. And the game is brutal. Whether it's pot limit or no limit, it's, it's, it's brutal. And those pots get big quick. So if you approach it too emotionally, it'll kill you. It is the worst for sure.

[Patrick]

I think I've gotten in twice now on this.

[Joe Scales]

This is a perfect example of you got exactly, you played it the way you wanted and you got exactly what you wanted and the run out was just terrible.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

As far as playing it differently, I, I, I was trying to go about pot. I went about 300, which I was over pot because my math, my quick math failed me. But I also don't think the jam is bad there. So I think actually that was better. I'm betting the 300 there with the intention of getting it all in because of either a raise or on the next street anyway. So the, the key in this one is that there was no, there was no made low when we got it in. And that's a huge part. The, the button call though, man. I guess it's classic. It's classic. No limit 08 or even pot limit 08. Because it's not, it's not a terrible call like these kinds of situations. You know, he had what top pair, he had a nut flush draw. He had a gut shot. Some backdoor stuff. That's why these games are insanity.

[Patrick]

Yeah. It's the wild, wild west.

[Joe Scales]

And hold them and you make top set, you feel pretty invincible. Right, Right. And in no limit 08 or pot limit 08, a lot of times you're 55 to 65% instead of 85 to 95. I, to me, I'll tell you what is fascinating to me is the big blindfolding. What did he have? It, it actually, you know, he says I call if button folds. I think means that Andrew had his, his range pretty accurate and he probably had some kind of huge rap, a combo drop, maybe ace deuce with, with hearts. Once the button over calls, then the big blind realizes his draw is probably partially dead. His low outs may be compromised as well. So his, his equity just plummets, you know, so it's, it's, honestly, it's a, it's a pretty disciplined fold. I'm a little shocked for sure.

[Patrick]

From the big blind. Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

So I think to, to answer the last part of the question there, strategy wise, Nlo8 pretty, pretty unique. I have played it, though not often. And I know that, that Andrew has a pretty good feel for the strategy of it because it sounds like he plays it in his home game every time. But for you, Patrick, what we know is the scoop potential matters, right?

[Patrick]

Yep.

[Joe Scales]

The whole game revolved around and we get can we win both halves of this pot. The other side of that, what else? Nut lows are, I think typically overrated by weaker players, meaning people overrate hands like ace, deuce, X X because they, they, you know, they don't have a good high, so they're still not going to scoop. Right. And then the last piece of advice I would give you as far as this goes, Patrick, is position is even more important in this game than it. Than it is in hold'. Em. And it's extremely important.

[Patrick]

Yeah, it is extremely important in hold'. Em and I think here is way, way more important.

[Joe Scales]

I mean,

[Patrick]

yeah, if you're sitting under the gun on gun plus one, you're holding on for dear life.

[Joe Scales]

This is one of those hands where the result feels awful. But the decisions were all right.

[Patrick]

Yeah, they actually were. And I don't feel like you get that a whole lot. I mean, you can obviously, but I don't think you get that as much with hold'.

[Elliot Schechter]

Em.

[Patrick]

I just don't. I mean, there's. It happens. Don't get me wrong, it's, you know, it's poker. It happens. But there's a little bit more, I don't know, call it control. That's a, that's a scary word and talk about in this game.

[Joe Scales]

But let's see what Scott and Chris's advice was on this as well. And then, then we'll wrap it up again.

[Scott]

I just, I think that I would have raised or re. Raised with his hand way early. And after that, the decisions are pretty easy for us, really. I mean, just calling isn't really an option after that flop, you have top set and you got two guys in the hand with you now, plus two more behind you. I think that you have to raise there. So. And really the raise seems to be the effective stack. So I don't think what we would do really matters now. Have I ever played in the limit of Omaha 8? Yes, I have. I think we played it for a couple of rounds and Jason's home game in Connecticut before I said, this is ridiculous. Why are we playing no limit everything? And then we changed it up. But. And I've played it in our own. My family home game, no limit.

[Chris]

I think I Played it online once or twice. But here's the thing about no limit hold' em or Omaha 8. I really don't. Pot limit's what makes that game. Yeah, it makes you. Because it constricts your bet. I mean, still, obviously you can get a lot of money in a pot and pot limit. I mean, those games are sick. So it's not like you're limiting the amount of money gets in, but you're creating more decisions and more strategy. No limit. It's just, I think you take a lot out of the game. And if you go to like the full tilt strategy guide that we always mention, a really good book, the Omaha chapter is really good. And I don't remember the math and everything, but they said the proper. Howard Lederer wrote that maybe the proper move in a no limit game is with pocket aces is to shove.

[Scott]

Right.

[Chris]

So that's why you have the pot limit. So you can't do that. And it's more layered. So I guess my suggestion is don't play no limit anymore. Limit. The game will be more fun.

[Joe Scales]

That was fun.

[Patrick]

That was fun. Listen, I. I don't feel good inside. I don't have the jollies afterwards. But yeah, that was a lot of fun.

[Joe Scales]

I, I realized listening to that though, I realize how much I, I love listening to Scott and Chris, you know, beforehand too. So I was glad that we were able to do that. Thank you, Andrew, for sending this one in. I think this captures why 08 is so appealing to some

[Patrick]

and not to

[Joe Scales]

others and not to others.

[Patrick]

I don't know, but that came from the clouds. No, that was a lot of fun. It's, it's, it's. It keeps you on your toes. If I don't see another one of these for another month or so, I may okay with that. But you know it. Feel free to send them in because it is fun to switch it up. But that was a good one. So, Andrew. Yeah, thank you.

[Joe Scales]

Another one. So we will be doing that at some point. We probably won't. Back to. Back to uniform.

[Patrick]

I mean, I'm in for it.

[Joe Scales]

All right. And if anyone has a hand of the week that they would like to know how Patrick and I would play it, send it to podcastnetmagazine.com Patrick, we'll see you next week.

[Patrick]

Sounds like a plan. I'll be here.

[Joe Scales]

Never fold in the boots.

[Podcast Narrator]

We're dealing stories that clean poker legends rise on the 18.

[Joe Scales]

To me, one of the most fascinating things about poker is watching how different players approach the game. Some players are, are constantly adjusting. They're changing gears or shifting speeds. They're reading the room and, and, and finding the right approach for the table they're actually sitting at. And then there are the players who never change gears. That player has one strategy, one speed, one way of actually doing things, and, and, and that's what you're going to get every single session. The funny thing is, most of us can see the problem with that when it's happening at a table. If you're playing at a table full of calling stations, we know maybe firing three barrels with air isn't the best plan. And of course, if everybody's folding too much, maybe it's time to loosen up and apply pressure. The best strategy isn't about the cards at all. It's about the situation. But here's what I've realized over the years, too. A lot of us treat life exactly the same way those players treat poker. We never change gears. And like some people, approach every relationship the same way. Maybe they've always been the fixer or the peacemaker or the person who avoids conflict at all costs. And when that approach isn't working anymore, they keep doing it because it's familiar. Some people approach every job the same way, too. Maybe they work harder and harder every time there's a problem. But effort, even though it's usually a great thing, it's not going to solve every challenge. Sometimes the answer is communication or delegation. Sometimes it's learning a whole new skill. And some people, they'll approach every obstacle in life with the exact same strategy they've used for 20 years. No adjustment, no flexibility, no new gears. The problem is that life keeps changing the table on us. The people around us change. Our careers change. Our families change. Health. Technology changes. The changes we're facing at 50 aren't going to be the same challenges we faced at 25. Yet a lot of us keep trying to play today's game with yesterday's strategy. The players who thrive in poker aren't necessarily the smartest people in the room. A lot of time, they're just the most adaptable. They pay attention and recognize when conditions have changed. And they aren't emotionally attached to a strategy just because it once worked for them. They're willing to ask, what's the best play right now? And that's a powerful question away from the poker table, too. Not what have I always done? Not what would make me comfortable, Especially not what worked 10 years ago, but what's the play that works best right now? Sometimes that means being aggressive. Sometimes it means being patient. Sometimes it means taking a risk. But sometimes it means folding and waiting for a better opportunity. The key is recognizing that one gear won't get you through every situation. A sports car isn't much use on a muddy or back road. A four wheel drive truck isn't winning many races on the speedway either. The vehicle isn't the problem, though. Poker teaches us about adaptation and that it's necessary. Changing your approach is recognizing reality and then responding to it. And the people who do that best usually give themselves the best chance to succeed. So take a look at your own game. Where are you stuck in one gear? Where are you relying on a strategy that becomes a habit instead of a solution? And what might happen if you made an adjustment or two? Because sometimes the difference between being stuck and moving forward isn't more effort, it's just finding the right gear. That's today's one outer and that's today's show. I'll see you next week 18 and until then, I'll see you at the tables. The Antioch Podcast is a production of anyupmagazine.com contact the show at Podcasts at any up magazine or call the show at 540-339-7741. If you'd like to advertise, send an email to editoryupmagazine.com

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