Chapter 4 Ep. 24 The Empty Seat

Summary

Ante Up Poker Magazine – Chapter 4 Ep. 24 "The Empty Seat"

Host: Joe Scales
Date: June 26, 2026
Key Segments: Call the Floor, Hand of the Week, Joe’s One Outer

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Ante Up Poker, Joe Scales guides listeners through another week of poker insight, humor, and community—even while he and co-host Elle are away on a Caribbean cruise. With regular co-hosts recording remotely, the show features an in-depth "Call the Floor" rules segment with poker tournament director Elliot Schecter, a packed "Hand of the Week" strategy breakdown with Patrick, and a thoughtful, poignant monologue in "Joe’s One Outer" about the meaning and memories forged at the poker table.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Call the Floor

Timestamps: [01:49]–[17:00]
Guests: Elliot Schecter (Tournament Director/Judge)

Situation Presented

• Listener's Scenario: At a casino tournament, one of five starting tables mistakenly receives starting stacks of 20,000 chips instead of 12,000.
• The floor decides to remove 8,000 chips from every stack over the 12K starting stack and cut in half the stacks of those under 12K.
• Question: Is there a rule governing this, or is it left up to the tournament director’s discretion?

Main Insights & Analysis

• No Direct Rule (TDA):
  "This is not one of the issues that's very specifically addressed in the TDA, other than the operator is responsible for making things right." – Elliot [04:14]
• Critical View of Solution:
  Elliot finds the chosen method ("Solomonic solution") unfair and arbitrary:

  "If you're below the starting stack, you theoretically lost more than the 8K to which you're entitled... Why should they get a discount because they lost those chips?" [05:34]

• What Should Be Done?
  • Removing chips uniformly makes more sense than variable penalties.
  • Alternative discussed: Disbanding the table and refunding/relocating affected players.
  • Adding chips to other tables isn’t ideal, as it changes tournament length and texture.
  • The core issue is that there’s just no perfect fix: "Whatever the solution is, it's gonna suck. And that, that's just facts." – Joe [13:13]

Notable Quotes

• On the outcome no one will like:
  "There's just no perfect solution here. It's just finding the lesser of all the evils." – Joe [15:36]
• On responsibility:
  "Protecting your hand means actually paying attention to what's going on. Why do we have so many chips?" – Elliot [10:34]
• On fairness:
  "It should be equal pain for everybody. They didn't deserve these chips. They shouldn't have been in play in the first place." – Elliot [06:18]

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2. Hand of the Week

Timestamps: [17:15]–[37:36]
Hosts: Joe, Patrick
Guest input: Elliot

Hand Breakdown: $300 Tournament, 30 players left

• Hand scenario: Milo (listener) in the small blind with A♥ J♦.
• Action:
  • Middle position (tight player) raises.
  • Maniac and button call; action on Milo.
• Joe prefers calling ("lowest-variance play"), Patrick leans to a raise.

  "If we were in a cash game, I may play it a little bit different. We're deep enough that I don't need to build a huge pot with a hand that obviously I hate…" – Joe [22:13]

How the Hand Plays Out

• Milo 3-bets big, ending with three-way to a flop K♥ Q♠ 4♦.
• Flop c-bet to 30K; middle position folds; maniac calls.
• Board: K♥ Q♠ 4♦ | 9♥
• Milo checks, maniac bets 45K, Milo jams the rest (175K).
  Maniac calls with Q♣ T♠ (second pair, gutshot). Milo bricks and is busted.

Analysis & Debate

• Mixed views on aggression:
  Joe and Patrick both lean toward betting turns themselves or calling, not jamming.
• On the big shove:
  "A shove does create maximum pressure, but it also creates maximum risk." – Joe [34:11]
• Meta-game factors:
  • Joe ponders how a maniac’s psychology is at play, especially with a crowd gathering—"the crowd coming over, probably, you know, that's an ego thing, too, with a maniac." [36:50]

Notable Quotes

• Patrick on tricky situations:
  "Now you're sitting on a draw against a maniac and a tight passive player, and you're in a really crappy position. Did I miss anything?" [23:28]
• Joe on the "semi-bluff":
  "A total bluff would be where you don't have anything. … A semi-bluff would be: I've got a lot of outs that I can hit to, or at least some outs, if they don't fold." [32:16]

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3. Joe’s One Outer: "The Empty Seat"

Timestamps: [38:33]–[45:17]

Theme:

Reflecting on the meaningful relationships and memories made at the poker table, through the lens of "the empty seat"—the players who vanish from the games over the years.

Key Points:

• The Disappearing Regulars:
  "You walk into your local room ... and you notice somebody isn't there. ... Eventually you realize they're just gone."
• Poker's Unique Bonds:
  While you may know their poker tendencies, you may know little real-life details about fellow players.
• The Value of Community:
  "As the years go by, you probably won't remember every pot you played. ... But I bet you remember the people." [44:27]
• Call to Action:
  Joe encourages listeners to connect on a human level:
  "When you're sitting at the table, ask someone a question that has nothing to do with poker ... The people are the point."
• A-Team Connection:
  Joe expresses gratitude for the podcast's community: celebrating life events, staying in touch through Discord and emails, and how these bonds can outlast the game itself.

Memorable Quotes

• "Poker kind of teaches us to think about the next hand ... but life doesn’t always work that way." [39:31]
• "One day, every poker player plays their last hand ... The people are the point." [43:23]
• "Because none of us know when a seat might become empty." [43:45]

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Notable Moments & Quotes (with timestamps)

• "I'm not going to many rooms going, 'Well, they have the most creative tournament directors.'" – Joe [07:47]
• "Tough. They had their chance. ... Why should they get a discount because they lost those chips?" – Elliot [05:34]
• "That's a head scratcher. But yeah, I appreciate that. That's a good one." – Joe [16:25]
• "The tournament director's fault and possibly the dealers ... But the player should have spoken up too. That's on them." – Elliot [10:34]
• "You can do a lot with 40 big blinds." – Patrick [33:41]

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Segment Timeline

| Segment | Timestamps | Participants | |------------------------|-------------------|-------------------------| | Call the Floor | 01:49 – 17:00 | Joe, Elliot | | Hand of the Week | 17:15 – 37:36 | Joe, Patrick, Elliot* | | One Outer ("Empty Seat")| 38:33 – 45:17 | Joe |

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Takeaways & Episode Tone

This episode maintains Ante Up's signature blend of strategic depth, practical advice, and warm community vibes. The rules talk is thoughtful, honest, and sometimes bluntly realistic about the challenges poker directors face. The hand review offers candid self-reflection and banter, while the closing monologue delivers a heartfelt meditation on the game’s true legacy: the people and friendships built at the tables. The tone is relaxed, a mix of humor, camaraderie, and gratitude.

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For New Listeners

Even if you’ve never tuned in before, this episode is an accessible snapshot of why Ante Up Poker Magazine is beloved by the "everyday player": rules you’ll actually encounter, strategy at real-life stakes, and a reminder that poker, at its best, is about much more than the cards.

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To share your own poker puzzles or stories, email [e-mail] and join the A-Team community on Discord or at live events.

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(All advertisements and non-content segments omitted for clarity and flow)

Transcript

[Host (possibly Joe)]

There's nothing like the American Express Platinum card.

[Elliot Schecter]

Find out your welcome offer after you

[Host (possibly Joe)]

apply, which could be as high as 175,000 points. Learn more and find out your [e-mail]

[Elliot Schecter]

Explore Platinum terms apply.

[Commercial Voice]

Take

[Patrick]

your seat. The cards are flying high. Shuffle up and deal at the Aces Lie longest running show. Yeah, we've seen it all. From the river to the rail, we answer the call.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Hello, a team and welcome back to another episode of the Antiette poker podcast where every hand is an opportunity, every player is a friend, and every episode is a winning experience. Elle and I are obviously not around the poker table with you this week. As you're listening to this, we're out on a cruise ship somewhere in the Caribbean. Actually we get back into port tomorrow but that means there's no table talk this week. But don't worry, we still have a brand new call the floor, a fresh hand of the week and a new one outer lined up for you. We'll be back around this table next week with plenty of stories from our travels, a few poker adventures and hopefully more than a few laughs to share with all of you. I just wanted to take a break from packing actually and thank all of you for listening. But that's all I have for now. So let's get on with the show.

[Patrick]

Big blinds, big stakes, raise it up. Let's make no mistake.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Elliot Schecter joins us each week to see how he would run situations that come up in your games. And, and he's with us again this week. Elliot, how's it going?

[Elliot Schecter]

Things are going pretty well, thanks. How are you doing?

[Host (possibly Joe)]

I'm good. I, I've got the palm trees on the shirt because technically I am at sea right now. We're, we're recording a little early and I'm floating somewhere. Who knows where I am at this point.

[Elliot Schecter]

So Friday, just in time for hurricane season. Yeah.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Ellen. I watched Titan. I, I had never seen Titanic and I watched it for the first time like two weeks ago. I was like, that may not have been the best idea.

[Elliot Schecter]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

But no, I'm sure we are having a blast on a ship and we've, we're going to keep things moving here though with a call the floor sent in by David Musselwhite. And this one, I'm interested to see how you sort this one out because he says a friend of mine was playing in a casino nightly tournament. Every player starts with 12,000 in chips and the levels are 20 minutes. They had five, nine handed tables running and one of the five tables ended up having 20,000 starting stacks instead of the 12 around level two or three. The floor realized the mistake. They decided to go to the table with the extra chips in play. And they took 8,000 of chips from every player with more than 12,000 in chips. And anyone with less than 12,000 had half of their stack removed. My friend and the other players, when hearing this, felt like it was an unfair solution. Everyone had their own idea of what would have been fair to the rest of the players in the tournament. So the real question is, are there rules in place for dealing with something like this or is it left to the game runner on how to handle it?

[Elliot Schecter]

This is not one of the issues that's very specifically addressed in the tda, other than the operator is responsible for making things right. This is an interesting one simply because it went a few rounds. It appears as though they tried to use some kind of Solomonic a solution here where large stacks got the excess withdrawn and then the smaller stacks got sliced in half, which I'm not at all positive. How they came up with that, I couldn't tell you. I mean, you're obviously not taking the full 8k out of, out of a 12k stack. I get that. But still, I mean, it doesn't say if anybody was eliminated in that time. It doesn't say right how many big stacks there were. I mean, the object is to get obviously nine players times 8k. You're trying to get 72k in tournament ships out of that table. And maybe they came up with a way that that accomplish just that.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

I mean,

[Elliot Schecter]

I'm pretty sure I'm not setting a bar whereby if you below the starting stack, you only lose half your stack. Because if you're below the starting stack, you theoretically lost more than the 8K to which you're entitled. So there's no reason not to take the full 8k out of anybody's stack if it eliminates them. You give them one chip and you say, yeah, good luck, sir, congratulations. Here's a race off for you. You get a chip. We can't, we can't decision you out of the tournament, but you were playing on, on, on chips and therefore time for which you, number one, did not pay for number two do not deserve. So, yeah, I'm not sure I take a discount for the smaller stacks. Tough. They had their chance. They. What's to say any of them didn't take unnecessary risks knowing full well they had larger stacks than they should have? Maybe they didn't. Yeah, but why should they get a discount because. Because they lost those chips. And likewise, if somebody has two starting stacks worth of chips, how come they don't pay twice? Theoretically, it's the same logic. So I don't like this solution in any way, shape or form. It's not fair. The players who took the extra chips and gambled it up and won are getting a better discount than the players who gambled away those chips and lost. It should be equal pain for everybody. They didn't deserve these chips. They shouldn't have been in play their first place. I'm not going to run the tournament over or just cancel the table out, which I guess is a possible solution. You could literally tell those players tough, here's your refunds. You guys aren't playing under the same conditions that we promised everybody, therefore we can't have you play. That seems more viable than just taking chips out of stacks and at a discounted rate. For some people. I mean, I guess they were creative. I'll give them points for that, but I don't see how it's fair.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Yeah, and I don't know that I'm going to many rooms going well, they have the most creative tournament directors, so.

[Elliot Schecter]

Well, now he's off that. I consider myself a pretty creative guy when it comes to tournaments and I've always been proud of that. Good formats. But when it comes to solutions, I don't try to be too novel. I try to be logical and by the book when possible.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Yeah. Would it. Would another solution have been to give 8,000 in chips to all the other players?

[Elliot Schecter]

Yeah, I mean that's certainly. If you can, if you can speak it, it's a solution. I'm not sure it's incredibly viable. Again, it's not just the ownership of the chips. After a couple of blind levels, the ability to have played with those chips previously means more than being able to play with them now. As the blinds go up, the value of those chips goes down.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Elliot Schecter]

The ability was to play deep stack at lower levels as opposed to moderate stack or even, maybe even deep stack at later levels. But still just to give everybody the bonus chips. That's one way to do it. I certainly do like that better than withdrawing somewhat random amounts from players based on their ability to have won pots or not, which in the very, very short term is absolutely more based on the cards you're getting than. Than the way you're playing them. So, yeah, I guess I like that better, but I think the chips need to come out of play. You're juicing up Tables for no apparent reason. And again, you add more chips into play that the format itself may not be designed for that. Now all of a sudden you've got a three and a half to five hour tournament that goes six and a half to nine hours. I mean, right, you just increase the amount of chips and play by 67%. I'm not sure I like that at all.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Yeah, well, I know that, that, that would make it go longer for sure.

[Elliot Schecter]

Oh God.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Yeah, but at the same time it's, it's the, the staff's fault, not the player's fault. Right.

[Elliot Schecter]

It's the tournament director's fault and possibly the dealers by giving out the stacks less so to the dealers, they were giving out the chips they were given. So they were improperly directed. And that was one dealer and it was one tournament director. So I guess you can certainly get it down to the dealer level. The player should have spoken up too. That's on them. So it's on them to take it on the chin when it comes to actually rectifying said error. So this is, I mean, the operator is more at fault than the players. The players are still at fault. Protecting your hand means actually paying attention to what's going on. Why do we have so many chips? But yeah, by adding all those chips to the tournament and making it last longer, you're not just penalizing the operator or penalizing the players who may have somewhere to go. You're also penalizing the dealers because now they've got to put a lot more time into this tournament, therefore making their, their down shares worth less. Yeah, not worthless. One word worth less. Two words. They'll be working harder for less money, which is, well, less than ideal. So. Yeah, and again, going back to the formatting of the tournament, the blind levels and the time allotted are, are not going to be able to handle the, the vastly increased chip cow. So yeah, it can throw things out of whack and we'll, we'll make it play a whole lot differently than it was intended to.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Right? Yeah, that's it. From the other side of that, it's going to play differently. You know, if you have half your stack removed, you know, at that point too, for sure, if I dwindled my stack that way by bleeding chips during the tournament, then you know, I'm going to start playing hands differently. But when you start a hand with or in one hand you have 10,000 chips and then the next hand you have 5,000 chips. Well, I might have played that other hand differently if I'd have known that I was only gonna have 5,000 chips after the hand. But I, I, whatever the solution is, it's gonna suck. And that, that's just facts. When you, when you start a table with that many more chips than the rest of the tables, then it's, it's, there's not a solution that's gonna, everybody's gonna go, yeah, I think that's perfect. Let's move on.

[Patrick]

Right?

[Elliot Schecter]

Yeah, it's gonna be a pretty tough one.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Yeah, I've never seen anything like that. Have you, have you ever seen a table or multiple tables that had different chip stacks than the rest of them? That especially not getting caught until level 2 or 3?

[Elliot Schecter]

I've seen it where for some reason the dealers and players at that table or tables, whether intentionally or otherwise, didn't raise the blinds for a few levels

[Host (possibly Joe)]

and oh yeah,

[Elliot Schecter]

assessed pretty tough penalty on the dealer. I mean, they, they had to do a little bit of extra work and sign some documentation. The players were spoken to rather harshly because they had to know what's up. They see the clock just like anybody else.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Right? Yeah. It's not like those are being hidden around the room.

[Elliot Schecter]

Exactly. So, yeah, again, they missed an opportunity also because they, as with no urgency of the blinds raising, they didn't adjust their playing styles and therefore not a whole lot of chips moved around the table. And then of course, we finally made them play at the current level, which they were not ready for, is like a table of all new players. So yeah, it was like a late entry table where you're just seeing all alternates, which, God bless them. But yeah, they bought in early for a reason. But yeah, the extraction, I mean, it's got to be a little more uniform than that. And depending on how many short stacks there are and how many big stacks there are, you may either get too much or too little off the table that way. The key is you still got 72,000 in chips you got to get off the table. I'd much rather get 72k and chips off the table than not.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Yeah, like I said, there's just no perfect solution here. It's just finding the lesser of all the evils.

[Elliot Schecter]

Yeah, you're. Yeah, there's no great option. There's just a bunch of somewhat to very tough choices. Yeah, it doesn't mean you avoid. It doesn't mean you just don't do it. You got to make one of the choices.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Right.

[Elliot Schecter]

I mean, I'm glad they took money off the table. I mean, chips off the table. They're supposed to do that, setting the starting stack as the dividing line between the full 8k or half your stack. That seems a little arbitrary.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Yeah. David, I appreciate you sending that in. That's one, that, that's a head scratcher. But yeah, I appreciate that. That's a good one. And Elliot, I appreciate the, the feedback on that one too.

[Elliot Schecter]

You're welcome. This was, this was a, a head scratcher for sure.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Yeah. And if anyone has a call the floor that they would like to know how Elliott would rule, send it to podcastnetmagazine.com Elliot, we'll see you when we are on land again.

[Elliot Schecter]

Have a great time. Hope you have great weather and good times.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Welcome to hand of the Week where Patrick, our resident fish and I dive into lyser submitted hands. Each week we tackle everything from questionable bluffs to hero calls and the hands that make you scratch your head. Whether you're looking for strategy tips or you just want to see if we would have played it any better, we've got you covered. Patrick, how's it going, man?

[Patrick]

I am pretty good, my friend. I'm not quite as good as you. I'm not on a boat.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

I'm on a boat that's going to be in your head now the entire time we're doing this.

[Patrick]

I had some, I had some music ready for you as well. You know, you know, a little bit of, a little bit of Hawaii ukulele. Little ukulele.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

I, I, obviously we're recording a little early, but I still had to dress appropriately. But by the time everybody's listening to this, we will have sailed for almost a full week. And so recording this so that there's still that content going out there, but like I said, I had to wear the palm trees.

[Patrick]

You look great. You look great. I, I know everyone's looking forward to it. You know, I hate that I can't be there. Kids room and everything. Gotta love them. But sooner, sooner, sooner or later. So.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Well, I'm gonna skip over that one and go into. We do have a, we do have a hand of the week that's sent in by Milo Duncan.

[Patrick]

All right.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

And he is playing day one of a 300 tournament. There is a hundred thousand dollar guarantee in this one. There are 189 entries, but we're down to 30 players.

[Elliot Schecter]

Okay.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

He says I've had a big stack most of the tournament and was never really in danger. I had been coasting for quite a while. My bluffs were getting through and I was picking good spots. I got moved to a new table that's when the trouble starts. And immediately the guy next to me when I sit down says, welcome to the shit show.

[Patrick]

That's even worse.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

So I start playing pretty tight at the new table. We're about four orbits in by the time this hand happens. There's a maniac who's been showing up in three bet pots with five, six offsuit and nine, six off suit. He has.

[Patrick]

I was not in this tournament. I want to know. And I was not. It was not me.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

No, because you would have just called and they're three betting call. They have about 400,000 chips and blinds are 1500, 3000. It says at this point, I have about 225,000. We're in the small blind. Middle position is a tight, passive player, and they raise to 7,000. The maniac calls, the button calls, and it's to us with the ace of hearts, jack of diamonds.

[Patrick]

How many we've got? What you said middle position raised to 7. Maniac called. Button called. Is that right?

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Yep.

[Patrick]

Well, you're obviously raising.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

I am or you are, or you you are?

[Elliot Schecter]

You, you.

[Patrick]

You with the Hawaiian shirt, you are absolutely raising. I think I am, too, but I don't think I'm going to go big enough for you. I've got.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

You're gonna. You're gonna be shocked because I feel like calling is the lowest variance play now.

[Patrick]

All right. All right. Well, that's.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

I will put the caveat in here. I will put the caveat in here that I hate ace jack.

[Patrick]

Yes, you do. That's right. I forgot about that. Much like, playing from the small blind is probably not one of your favorites ever positions. So.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Also correct. Right.

[Patrick]

So maybe calling, call, see the flop and then get out of dodge. You know, depending on where it is. Yeah, that's okay. Well, that was where my gut said, but if I was gonna bet, it was probably going to be in that, like, 24 to, you know, 30,000 range.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

I just. Here's the thing. We're in a tournament, we're not in a cash game.

[Patrick]

Correct.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

So I feel like calling is the lowest variant variants play. If we were in a cash game, I may play it a little bit different. We're deep enough that I don't need to build a huge pot with a hand that obviously I hate and can be dominated by middle position. Who's that tight player? We also keep the maniac in there with weaker hands. So, yeah, that's why I want to call.

[Patrick]

Come. I'm good.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

However, Milo says i3 bet to 27,000.

[Patrick]

Yeah, well, if you're going to bet, that's probably where you need to be.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Yeah. Middle position reluctantly calls.

[Patrick]

Don't love that.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

That's not good for us. He. The tight. The tight player is calling. The maniac calls and the button folds.

[Patrick]

Three days.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

The pot is 64,000 and the flop is the king of hearts, queen of spades, four of diamonds.

[Patrick]

Now you're sitting on a draw against a maniac and a tight passive player, and you're in a really crappy position. Did I, did I miss anything?

[Host (possibly Joe)]

No, that pretty much sums it up. Yeah.

[Patrick]

So at least we got that going for us. What was it? Quote from Dumb and Dumber? We've got no food. We've got no jobs. Our pets heads are falling off. Playing Milo's handy three bets. I think you need to continue to push a little bit and see what's what. I think if you get, if you get re raised here, you probably need to go ahead and call it especially. Well, let me rephrase. If it's coming from middle position, you probably need to take that into account. Especially because you're just on a draw. The maniac re raises. Then, you know, maybe you just, you know, I don't know. We'll see if that happens.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Might be a little different. For sure.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I, you know, somewhere in that, I don't know, half pots, 32, 25 to 30 range.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Okay. I was in 22 to 28. So we're right there. Yeah, I probably go right there at 25. Right in the middle there. We can fold out hands like small pairs, suited connectors of some kind. Maybe some random floats that the maniac has that he's just trying to get to the next street with. We also keep the initiative. And if we go in that 25 range, then we're not risking too much if that, that tight passive player is really the one we're worried about. Right. If they have ace, queen, king, queen, ace, king, pocket queens or pocket kings, then we're not throwing a ton of money in here. So I think we both agree that the bad choice here would be to check. Unless you're. Unless your plan is to check. Raise.

[Patrick]

Yeah. Which is not. Not on draw for me.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Well, not. Not against this type player either.

[Patrick]

Yeah, for sure.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Milo says I continue for 30,000.

[Patrick]

Okay.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Middle position. The original razor folds. That's good news. So we're heads up against the maniac because the maniac calls and the turn is the nine of hearts. So the board is king of hearts, queen of spades, four of diamonds, nine of hearts. And the pot is 124,000.

[Patrick]

We started out with what, 225, right? So we're in for what, 20, 50. Come. Well, you got to continue to tell the story, right? If you, if you're going to take, I mean, you're still just on a draw. I mean, if you, unless. Well, I have played this many times, and I don't think you agree with this strategy. I, once I've gotten to heads up here, and I'm just on a draw, I, I don't mind terribly. Just check calling. But then you're giving the, especially against someone that's all over the place. I, I still don't like that. Don't. And not in this play. I'm going, I'm going 70.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

That was the most ADD answer ever.

[Patrick]

You know, I don't even have ADD or ADHD, but let me tell you, what did, what did, what did we talk about last week? I think correctly, but speak wrong. Is that something along those lines?

[Host (possibly Joe)]

You were everywhere and you're like, well, I'm definitely going to bet, but then, you know, sometimes I call, but I'm going to bet this much now.

[Patrick]

Do you realize how hard it is when I'm playing my own hands? That's why the first year of this experiment took so long to gather myself, because online poker is too damn quick. I'm betting 70.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

70, okay. Yeah, that, the, the turn, that nine, nine of hearts, that's actually a pretty good card for a range, right? Yeah, it is. It also improves a lot of the junk that the Maniac can float with. But, but, yeah, I, I, I think I'm gonna barrel again. I'm gonna go 55, though. I'm not going quite as big. I, I guess I, I don't want some of these hands that he could have to fold. So I don't want to go too big, but I, I want to bet. So, yeah, 55 is where I'm going. And Milo checks. Ooh, I don't like that. Checking. Checking surrenders the initiative to a maniac, and I'm not happy about that. And it looks like again, right now,

[Patrick]

we're still sitting on just a draw. Yeah, see, that's what I was trying to say earlier. So, like, you know, in this instance, the thought being, okay, well, checking, you know, I'm gonna check call. Unless it's something, you know, outrageous in these shoves or something, you know, crazy, but

[Host (possibly Joe)]

I don't know, are you planning on calling something that the maniac throws out there?

[Patrick]

Yeah. And I. What I. What I get out of it, Joe? What I get out of it is I may or may not. I might. We might go check. Check. Which is fine by me. And if you throw something out there, I'm gonna find out a little bit from the size of it, I think.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

All right. Well, he does bet. He bets 45,000. What is it? What are you learning?

[Patrick]

I'm learning that he's. I think he's probably got a pair. Either that or, you know, it. Maybe It's. It's king, 10, or, you know, it could even be ace, king, you know, potentially hearts, maybe. You know, I don't think so. I think he's. I think he's paired up the board somewhere. I think he's got a king or a queen with a. With a somewhat decent kicker in. In hand.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Here's my. Here's. Here's what I think I gather from experience, not from this particular player. Right. Just playing with maniacs in the past. I feel like they tend to bet bigger when they are betting for value, when they've got something that they are happy with, and then they'll use some smaller bets when they're, like, probing, trying to figure out where you're at, or they're trying to buy the pot. Obviously, that's a generalization, but it is a clue. And so if this were a straightforward player, then I would probably fold, but it's not. There are a lot of things he can be. He can be betting with. Right.

[Elliot Schecter]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

But against his range, I think if we fold, that's. That's too exploitable by him. So I think I'm gonna call and just call the 45K.

[Patrick]

I would do the same. Yep.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Milo says I tank for about 30 seconds and jam for 175,000. Holy cow. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't see that coming.

[Patrick]

I. I did not preface earlier by saying that, you know, what do you say about his bluffs were, you know, working. Okay. All right.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

And it's only a semi bluff in this case, so,

[Patrick]

you know, that's a good question, though. Hold on. Before we move on. What. You know, in your world, in your head, with your experience, because to me, this is a total bluff. We're on a draw.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Well, a semi bluff is what I would call. A total bluff would be where you don't have anything. You got seven deuce.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

And you are just trying to get them to fold.

[Patrick]

Okay. Okay.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Whereas a semi bluff would be. I've got. I've got a lot of outs. That I can hit to or at least some outs that I can hit if I'm. If they don't fold.

[Patrick]

Okay. All right.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

He thinks for about a minute. Officially, we are on break now. People start gathering around the table. I feel like that hurts us. He does finally call, and I feel like the people gathering around the table when it's a maniac are going to want to hero call things. And he finally does call and turns over the queen of clubs, 10 of spades.

[Patrick]

There you go.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Called that one middle pair and a gutter. I break the river and bust the tournament. He says I'm happy with my play there. I'm not trying to squeak into day two. I had a tight image. I think the play should have worked, but. Curious to hear your perspective after cruising all day. I'm not looking to ladder. I'm looking to accumulate a call. Leaves you around 120,000. So, I mean, if. If you miss you and fold river, you still have 40 big blinds. That's. That's where he's. His thinking was.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I mean, you do a lot with 40 big blinds.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

You can. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm thinking. Yeah. 40 Big Blinds is a lot. So I don't know about squeaking in the day, too. I will give him this a shove. Does create maximum pressure.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

But it also creates maximum risk. Right.

[Patrick]

In a tournament.

[Commercial Voice]

It does.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Strategically, I think the strongest line here is to bet the turn yourself and

[Patrick]

then

[Host (possibly Joe)]

at least check call.

[Patrick]

That's.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

That's what I think would be the most profitable. The problem is those lines are exploitable. Right. The maniac could really put pressure on.

[Patrick]

Let me ask you this question, though. For everyone out there, let's say the roles were somewhat reversed or, you know, interchanged. We weren't playing against the maniac, and we were playing against the middle position. And the same bet comes out, you know, we end up checking, you know, the middle position was, you know, who we're going up heads up against, and they bet 45 or whatever it was. At that point, it's in a much easier fold. Right.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

100.

[Patrick]

Okay. So that's, you know, and that's. That's taking that to it, you know, into account. I'm sure Milo did the same thing. When he's playing against the maniac like that, he's probably thinking, okay, well, he jams here, you know, finally puts the maximum pressure, like you said, and, you know, maybe it's. It's a good fold and he's not, you know, that one's tough. I I think, you know, I think it was tough all around, but that's going to work a lot of times, right?

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Yeah, it's going to work some. I don't know about a lot. Like, okay, I'll. I'll also say this. Players tend to think other players play like them, right? Does that make sense? So if I'm a maniac and I'm throwing money in wildly running bluffs, things like that, then a maniac is going to lean toward thinking that other people are bluffing more than they are. If you're a tight player, then you tend to lean toward thinking people have it all the time. Again, I can tell you, Joe, realizations today.

[Patrick]

I can tell you I don't think anyone plays like me, and I'm okay with that.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Hey, fair point. It's exhausting, that. Send what I was saying, there is

[Patrick]

an asterisk, and I am in that camp of the asterisk. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, though. That really does. You know, and, you know, the crowd coming over probably, you know, that's an ego thing, too, with a maniac.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

So, yeah, yeah, he's, you know, Milo, you know, got top pair. Even when I turn this over, I get to save a little bit of face and go, I had top pair.

[Patrick]

Well, he didn't even have top pair. He just had queens. There's a king on the board.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

That's fair. Yeah, Yeah. I had second pair.

[Patrick]

My second pair with a good kicker and a 10.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Milo, that stinks. Sorry to hear it, bud.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Yeah, that's. That's tough. I will think about you a lot while I'm by the pool and on the beach. Anyway,

[Patrick]

at least we're not rubbing it in, folks.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

No, seriously, that. That sucks. I'm. As a matter of fact, I'm on a poker cruise, so I'm probably running into similar situations. And the karma will be a beast after what I just said.

[Patrick]

Can't wait for Joe to go up against the maniac.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

Anyway, if anyone has a hand of the week that they would like to know how Patrick and I would play it, send it to [e-mail] Let me try that again. Podcast@any magazine.com Patrick, I will see you when I'm land on land again.

[Patrick]

See you then, pal.

[Host (possibly Joe)]

All right. One of the strangest things about poker isn't the bad beats. It isn't the coolers or even the tournaments we won or almost won. It's the empty seats. If you've been playing poker long enough, you've noticed them you walk into your local room after being away a few weeks or maybe a few months, and you notice somebody isn't there. First, you don't think about it much. Maybe they're on vacation or maybe they're trying a different room. Maybe they're taking a break. But then a few more weeks pass, a few more months, and eventually you realize they're just gone. Every poker room has their regulars, right? The retired guy played every Tuesday and ordered the same sandwich every single time. The woman who always wore the lucky sweatshirt. Maybe the loudmouth who talks too much but somehow makes the game more entertaining. The knit who folds for three hours and then somehow manages to double through someone every single time. The people that become part of the room itself, right? Part of the scenery, part of the routine. And then one day, their seat is empty. What's interesting is that poker creates these strange relationships. We can spend hundreds or even thousands of hours sitting next to someone and know almost nothing about them. We know their opening ranges or whether they limp too much. We know whether they bluff rivers or if they tip the dealers well. But we may not know where they work or what they did before retirement or even what they're passionate about away from the poker table, Maybe even their last name. They're part of our lives, but only inside the walls of a poker room. Then they disappear. And sometimes we never find out why. Maybe they moved. Maybe life got too busy. Maybe they found a new hobby. Sometimes the answer is harder than that. As I've gotten older, I started paying more attention to those empty seats, because every one of them is a reminder that none of us are guaranteed another session. Poker kind of teaches us to think about the next hand, right? The next tournament, the next trip. But life doesn't always work that way. The regular sitting next to you tonight may not be there next year. The friend you've shared countless hours with over the felt may someday play their last hand, and neither of you will realize it at the time. That's one of the reasons that I've come to appreciate what we've built here with the A team. I mean, when I started doing this podcast, I figured we'd talk about poker. And we do. We talk hands and strategy and tournament results and all the things poker players love to discuss. But over time, something else has happened, too. We started getting to know each other. Not just screen names, not just avatars in discord, not just voices on Patreon games, but people. Real people. We've celebrated promotions, retirements, weddings, anniversaries, new grandchildren. We've checked in on members going through health scares. We've shared stories about family and careers, military service, hobbies, dreams. I've learned that some of the people listening every week have lived far more interesting lives than anything that happens at the poker table. And honestly, that's my favorite part of this journey. Because one day, every poker player plays their last hand. Every tournament series ends. But relationships can last a whole lot longer. The older I get, the more I realize the chips aren't really the point. The trophies aren't really the point. The money isn't really the point. The people are the point. So when you're sitting at the table, ask someone a question that has nothing to do with poker. Learn their name. If you don't already know it. Ask them where they're from, what they do, what they love. And for those of you in the A team, keep sharing your stories with us. Keep posting in discord. Keep sending emails. Keep introducing yourselves at events, when we meet you at cruises, at tour stops. Because none of us know when a seat might become empty. None of us know when a casual acquaintance might become a missed friend. None of us know how much a simple conversation today might mean years from now. As the years go by, you probably won't remember every pot you played. You won't remember every tournament score. You won't remember every bad beat. But I bet you remember the people. Someday you'll walk into a poker room, look over at an empty seat and think about someone you haven't seen in years. And you realize that it isn't the player you miss. It's the person that's today's one outer nest. Today's show I'll see you next week, a team. And until then, I'll see you at the tables.

[Elliot Schecter]

The Antiop Podcast is a production of Antioupmagazine.com contact the show at podcastsnyupmagazine.com or call the show at 540-339-7741. If you'd like to advertise, send an email to editoryupmagazine.com

[Commercial Voice]

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