Chapter 4 Ep. 27 The Next Best Thing

Summary

Ante Up Poker Magazine Podcast

Chapter 4, Episode 27: "The Next Best Thing"

Date: July 18, 2026
Host: Jo Scales, with Patrick and Guest Expert Elliot
Main Theme: Adapting to changing circumstances in poker and life, WSOP updates, and strategic insight for engaged, everyday players.

---

Episode Overview

This episode explores the idea of embracing "the next best thing"—in poker and in life—especially when outcomes aren't as planned. Jo and Patrick recap the dramatic run to the WSOP Main Event final table, discuss key controversies and developments in tournament poker (shot clocks, multi-tabling, bathroom breaks), and examine strategic hands, offering both analysis and empathy for the player's journey. Regular segments "Call the Floor" and "Hand of the Week" provide practical tournament advice and engaging strategy discussion, while Jo's "One Outer" delivers a thoughtful reflection on adjusting expectations.

---

Table of Contents

1. WSOP Main Event Recap & Hot Topics
2. Table Talk: Shot Clocks, Tanking, and Multi-Tabling
3. Vegas News & Live Poker Updates
4. Upcoming Poker Events & Magazine Highlights
5. Segment: Call the Floor – Folding Out of Turn
6. Segment: Hand of the Week – Seven Card Stud Showdown
7. Joe’s One Outer: Embracing the Next Best Thing
8. Notable Quotes
9. Memorable Moments

---

WSOP Main Event Recap & Hot Topics

[03:02 – 08:39]

• Final Table Set: Final nine are in for the WSOP Main Event, with each player guaranteed at least $1 million, $10 million up top.
• Global Field: “There are a lot of nations. What is it, five nations? Canada, U.S., France, Cyprus, Finland.” (Patrick, 03:47)
• Notable Contenders:
  • Lucas Jumilan, age 22: Recent Grand Canyon University grad, business/data analytics degree, chip leader with 35% of total chips.
    • "Perfect combo for poker.” (Jo & Patrick, 05:01)
    • He eliminated the day seven chip leader and was featured supporting ‘Bob Does Sports.’
  • Veteran Greg Mueller: Old-school pro making the final table.
  • Missed Out: Shaun Deeb (busted and immediately registered for two other tournaments), Hinson (2019 champ, busted 13th), Todd Brunson (busted 20th).
    • “It would have been the first time that a son…” (Jo, 08:22)

---

Table Talk: Shot Clocks, Tanking, and Multi-Tabling

Shot Clocks Introduced (11:00 – 14:10):

• First time ever; implemented mid-tournament after players tanked up to 15 minutes.
  • (Jo: “Shot clocks are back…first time ever…middle of day seven.” 11:11)
• Some see it as unfair; Chris Brewer says it’s unfair to recs, Shaun Deeb says it helps recs. Big debate on impact.
• Structure: 20 seconds pre-flop, 30 seconds per street after, 6 time banks per day.
  • (Jo: “If you think about a 30 second commercial, how long that is…” 14:33)

Multi-Tabling During Tournaments:

• Shaun Deeb tried to play both the $500 ‘Summer Saver’ and $25k HORSE after busting from the Main.
• Patrick dislikes multi-tabling in live events: “I think it is distracting for other people.” (10:24)
• Jo says it’s allowed, but would never do it: “I’m spending the money to be in this tournament. I’m gonna give it my best.” (10:45)

---

Vegas News & Live Poker Updates

[15:05 – 18:55]

• Jared Greiner Robbery: After cashing $58k, was robbed at his Airbnb. Intruders possibly knew the code; incident covered widely in local Vegas news.
  • "Just get a check. Nobody needs to be carrying around backpacks of cash.” (Patrick, 16:19)
• Golden Nugget Poker Room Upgrade: Now only 9 tables (down from 13), but improved aesthetics, USB ports, table-side service; Jo and Patrick reminisce about fun cash sessions and comfort of the space.
  • "That hundo gives you some confidence…" (Patrick, 17:17)

---

Upcoming Poker Events & Magazine Highlights

[18:58 – 22:56]

• Upcoming Travel: Jacksonville (LIPS event), Alaska cruise tournaments, Rivers Casino (Schenectady), San Diego (Sequan), and the Venetian for the year-end championship.
• WSOP Series Record: Despite Main Event not breaking records, total entries at an all-time high (>247,000). Participation is up across the board.
  • “Participation’s up…Maybe just not in the most expensive main event.” (Jo, 18:13)
• Ante Up Magazine: Current issue praised for feature articles, especially Rob Fulfer’s “Poker Beats.”
  • “It is juicy, it’s fun…just full of really good strategy…” (Jo & Patrick, 22:01)
• Dealer Survey: Ongoing, dealers encouraged to participate.

---

Segment: Call the Floor – Folding Out of Turn

[24:53 – 39:30]

Listener Question:
Dave Miller (Rev Dave) asked if it’s really a rule violation to fold out of turn preflop, especially when everyone at the table is aware he’s folding to run for a bathroom break.

Elliot's Ruling:

• Yes, it’s a rule. Folding out of turn is prohibited; play must be sequential.
• Revealing you’re folding out of turn gives away information, potentially influencing action.
  • “If you were dealt the cards and looked at them and then decided to fold out of turn, everybody knows you’ve got crappy cards…” (Elliot, 27:29)
• Even if you get your cards back, the hand is dead.
• Solution: Get up before cards are dealt to avoid penalty.

Rules Source: Both WSOP and TDA prohibit out-of-turn actions for fairness and integrity.

---

Segment: Hand of the Week – Seven Card Stud Showdown

[39:42 – 70:28]

Format: Listener Ernest Hall submits a $2/$4 Fixed Limit Seven Card Stud hand.

Hand Summary

• Player’s Start: Ace♠, Six♠ (down), Ace♦ (up) – “Split aces,” best starting stud hand.
• Action: Player raises, trims the field, goes heads-up with a Jack♥ Nine♥ showing.
• Progression: Player makes aces up (two pair). Opponent develops a threatening hearts/straight draw board: Jack♥ Nine♥ Queen♥.
• Fifth Street: Facing a raise, discusses opponent’s possible hands and reasons for continuing.
• Sixth/Seventh Streets: Player checks, opponent bets. River card fills no draws. Player calls, opponent misses everything (ends with king-high).
• Results: Player takes down the pot with two pair (aces up).

Key Strategy Takeaways:

• Limit bet structure encourages cautious optimism: “If we check every time our opponent catches scary cards, then we're going to allow drawing hands to see 6th street for free.” (Jo, 54:40)
• Knowing when to bet for value and when to call down vs potential draws.
• Recognizing the importance of visible cards in Stud and inferring opponent holdings from observed outs.

---

Joe’s One Outer: Embracing the Next Best Thing

[70:48 – 75:51]

Reflection Theme

• Sometimes poker plans don’t work; it’s about playing the hand you’re dealt, not the hand you wanted.
• “Being okay with the next best thing doesn’t mean folding your dreams…You just stop letting ‘it has to be perfect or it doesn’t count’ run your stack into the ground.” (Jo, 74:28)
• Relates this to life: Accept smaller wins—chip up, min-cash, survive to the next hand. Letting go of ideal outcomes allows you to see and seize smaller, real victories.
• Weekly challenge: "When the flop doesn't cooperate... can you stop mourning the hand you wanted long enough to win the hand you've got?" (Jo, 75:04)

---

Notable Quotes

• On poker and perfection: "The hard part isn’t finding the next best thing. It’s letting go of the version in your head long enough to see it.” (Jo, 73:03)
• On tanking and shot clocks: “Call a clock. But also don’t tank for 15 minutes.” (Jo, 11:51)
• On multi-tabling: “You should pick one. Are you playing this game or playing that game?” (Patrick, 09:55)
• On carrying cash after a big win: “Just get a check. Nobody needs to be carrying around backpacks of cash.” (Patrick, 16:19)
• On folding out of turn: “Playing out of turn is not allowed… once you act out of turn, your hand is dead. It’s not an unreasonable expectation.” (Elliot, 33:40 & 34:32)
• On Stud poker: “Seven card stud is a fun game because one, every street feels like a real decision…” (Jo, 68:04)
• On taking the next best thing: “You stay in the tournament. Because staying in is how you give the good stuff a chance to come around again.” (Jo, 74:52)

---

Memorable Moments & Timestamps

• [05:13] — Lucas Jumilan knocking out the bubble boy to secure final table chip lead.
• [13:14] — “School teacher days. Nobody said you couldn’t.”—Table bending and poker ethics.
• [17:17] — Patrick's cash game bravado with $100 chips at the Golden Nugget.
• [26:05 – 27:29] — Elliot’s comprehensive breakdown of sequential action and why folding out of turn is penalized.
• [52:11 & 55:23] — Stud hand pivots on opponent’s scary board, balancing bet aggressiveness vs. caution.
• [70:48 – 75:51] — Jo’s heartfelt ‘One Outer’ about being OK with imperfect outcomes, realized through poker.

---

Overall Episode Tone & Style

The episode seamlessly blends humor (banter about puppy-induced sleep deprivation and Starbucks water snobbery), tactical advice, empathy for everyday poker struggles, and clear-eyed analysis of live tournament scenarios. There’s deep camaraderie and inclusion—making it easy for recreational and serious players alike to find value, insight, and a sense of connection.

---

For Further Listening/Reading

• Check out the latest issue of Ante Up Magazine for strategy tips and dealer survey.
• Join Patreon for community games and extra strategy insights.
• Engage with upcoming live events: LIPS, player cruises, regional casino stops, and the Venetian championship.

---

Transcript

[Patrick]

Take

[Elliot]

your seat, the cards are flying high. Shuffle up and deal at the aces

[Jo]

Lie Longest running show.

[Elliot]

Yeah, we've seen it all. From the river to the rail, we answer the call.

[Jo]

Welcome back to another episode of the anti app poker podcast, where every hand is an opportunity, every player is a friend, and every episode is a winning experience. Elle and I are back around the poker table.

[Patrick]

Cheers.

[Jo]

Cheers.

[Patrick]

Got a little bucks happy hour going on.

[Jo]

My Starbucks is a little different.

[Patrick]

Our orders are opposite ends of the spectrum.

[Jo]

Yeah. But in case you didn't know, Starbucks has triple filtered water, and I think it is the best tasting water on the face of the planet.

[Guest Expert]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

You are a water snob. And you're heavily disappointed if anyone goes to Starbucks and comes to visit and they don't bring you adventy ice water, which you cannot order on the app.

[Jo]

Correct.

[Patrick]

Anyone who could fix that greatly appreciate it.

[Jo]

Is the cookie good?

[Patrick]

Yeah. You didn't even ask. I didn't even introduce it yet. My.

[Jo]

You were already eating. Sometimes you can go and it's like. Has a, like super heavy butter taste.

[Patrick]

Yeah, no, this one's the.

[Jo]

Okay.

[Patrick]

Even keel. Yeah. My order is usually very easy. Women get the end of the stick about the order. Our orders. Mine usually is just a Venti blonde Americano. Nothing.

[Jo]

Definitely not a Venti blend.

[Patrick]

This is the one that about gives you a coronary if I ask you to pick one up.

[Jo]

Correct.

[Patrick]

So it is a half caf venti brown sugar, oat milk shaken espresso with half the pumps.

[Jo]

Oh, my God. That's a lot of syllables.

[Patrick]

Oh, it's delicious, though. I needed this. I feel like we have been up really late this week and then up in the middle of the night with this puppy. Yeah, he's cute, but he ain't that cute at 4 in the morning.

[Jo]

This is the reason that puppies are cute.

[Patrick]

Yes. So you don't.

[Elliot]

It's.

[Patrick]

So it makes it all worth it.

[Jo]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Yeah. That's for sure. Not to mention just holy moly wsop, we finally got there.

[Jo]

Yeah. They made it to the final table. Nine left.

[Patrick]

So.

[Jo]

It used to be called the November 9th. So I guess this is the August 9th.

[Patrick]

You're coining that.

[Jo]

Sure. It doesn't have the same kind of ring, though.

[Guest Expert]

Maybe.

[Patrick]

Maybe.

[Jo]

We got to work on that and come up with a new one.

[Patrick]

But

[Jo]

they return August 3rd. I believe it'll be the third through the fifth. It'll be on ESPN2. And ESPN, I think it starts on the first day is on ESPN2. And then I switch over to ESPN. Everybody that's made it has already made a million dollars. We're all millionaires.

[Patrick]

Hot damn. My grandfather used to.

[Jo]

And then there's 10 million, of course, at the top.

[Patrick]

And lots of nations represented. I like.

[Jo]

In the bracelet. Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick]

And the bracelet, I mean, that's important.

[Jo]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Security will bring that in. It all comes in in a beautiful box.

[Jo]

You're right, though. There are. There are a lot of nations. What, what is it? Five nations?

[Patrick]

Canada, U.S. france, Cyprus.

[Jo]

Yeah. The first.

[Patrick]

Finland.

[Jo]

Oh, yeah, yeah. It. It's the first person from Cyprus. What if you're from Cyprus? What are you, a Cyprian?

[Patrick]

I don't know. I was actually thinking about that as I was looking over some of the posts and everything coming through. But I believe that that is a representation of how many events have been in Cyprus in the last two years. Remember, we were hoping to go to one. There's been a lot of really amazing poker stops in Cyprus. So I'm just gonna say congratulations to those and thank you to those who have been putting on those events because we now have someone representing that nation in one of the biggest spotlights in poker for the year.

[Jo]

Yeah. So up at the top of that tip count is a 22 year old

[Patrick]

living his best life. Yeah.

[Jo]

Lucas Jumilan graduated from Grand Canyon University.

[Patrick]

I didn't even know that existed. I'm serious. I didn't even know that.

[Jo]

He's got a business slash data data analytics degree.

[Patrick]

Perfect combo for poker.

[Jo]

Perfect 100%. But he has about 35% of the chips that are in play are sitting in front of him.

[Patrick]

Let's go.

[Jo]

And to get them down to the final table. He was actually the one that busted the last person, the bubble boy. He was the person that knocked him out. And that person was the day seven chip leader.

[Patrick]

Oh, wow.

[Jo]

So that's how he got that racked up. Yeah, he. You know, I follow Baba sports, Right.

[Patrick]

Oh, my gosh, he's a riot. I don't know how he keeps his monotone voice like that without dying laughing like, really and truly. I really enjoy him. I do. But I'm like, how does he do

[Jo]

this without losing it? Well, you know, they've got a lot of things that they represent, right?

[Guest Expert]

Yeah.

[Jo]

They have the drink have a Day. They have their logo where or the apparel that they represent. But the have a Day drink.

[Patrick]

We need to try one.

[Jo]

Lucas, is he wearing one of those tattoos? Wearing one of the hats? He was wearing one of their hats, yeah. So I think probably a lot of our audience probably follows them. Probably follows Bob, does sports. So they probably know exactly what I'm talking about if you don't check it out. Because he's hilarious.

[Patrick]

Yeah. I mean, he does reviews of anything from RVs to bagels to golf. He meets some hilarious people on the golf course. I mean, there's some videos that we've watched over and over, but anyhow, he. I haven't picked who I'm rooting for. I. I think it's impressive. Yeah. The chip leader. That's impressive. I'm also looking forward to going back and being able to review some of these before August.

[Jo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Patrick]

So what else can you tell me about some of these? Well, some of these other finalists, if

[Jo]

you're looking for one to root for, like, old school, you can root for Greg Mueller.

[Patrick]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I could play.

[Jo]

Yeah. He was. I remember watching him, you know, early. Early, early days when he was. He was good, but he wasn't, like, great.

[Patrick]

Right.

[Jo]

And. And he's. I've watched his game improve, get better, because he was still. He was good enough that he was on these, like, Poker After Dark.

[Patrick]

Oh, yeah.

[Jo]

And things like that.

[Patrick]

So the classics.

[Jo]

Yeah. So seeing him final table, the main event, I love that. So that's. That's one to root for, for sure.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Jo]

Like you said, five nationalities, so you can pick one from one of those. Some of the ones that missed it, though, that's what gets me. Like, Shandi. Yeah. Sh.

[Patrick]

Super close. Which he comes and plays in Schenectady sometimes when we're up there, which is really nice to see him. Yeah.

[Jo]

Hinson.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Jo]

He won in 2019, and he was so close. He busted 13.

[Patrick]

You know, that's got to be infuriating.

[Jo]

Yeah. But so it's. It was cool to see him making it that far. Todd Brunson. How fun would that have been?

[Patrick]

Amazing.

[Jo]

It would have been the first time that. That a son.

[Patrick]

Did he wear his dad's hat?

[Jo]

Oh, I don't know. No, he did not. He did not.

[Patrick]

I love Doyle's hair.

[Jo]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

I just do.

[Jo]

Yeah. But he busted 20th, so. Yeah.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Jo]

Well. And coming back to Shaun Deeb, he busted and immediately went and registered for two events.

[Patrick]

That sounds like them.

[Jo]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Yes, That's. That definitely sounds like him, for sure.

[Jo]

He. He registered for the $500. I think it's called the Summer Saver.

[Guest Expert]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

I think that's the one Jasmine played the other day.

[Jo]

Oh, really?

[Patrick]

I think event 95.

[Jo]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Yeah. She played and she. She made a top one Third. Nice.

[Jo]

Yeah, nice. Dean did not deem. Sat down and immediately went all in and lost and went over it. He was gonna multi table, but he didn't have to worry about that.

[Patrick]

Saved himself sometime.

[Jo]

Yeah. Okay. The other tournament that he registered was the 25k horse.

[Patrick]

Wow. He was gonna play both of those.

[Jo]

He was in a 10. Like, completely different mindset.

[Patrick]

I was gonna say. That's a lot to keep track. I'm impressed when people do that. I really am. I don't think it should be allowed, but I'm impressed.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

I have an issue. You. You should. You should pick one.

[Elliot]

What is.

[Jo]

What's the issue, though? Why. Why should somebody have to pick one?

[Patrick]

Are you playing this game or are you playing that game? What are you attending to? Also this, like, getting up and leaving the table thing. You're not allowed to get up and leave the table, but you're allowed to get up and play two games.

[Jo]

Well, he's not in the hand currently when he gets up.

[Patrick]

That's fair. I get that. But I just. I think it is very. I think it is distracting for other people.

[Jo]

It could be. Yeah. I mean, maybe.

[Patrick]

Maybe that's what I'm thinking about is, like, if it was me, maybe I would just be distracted by, like, trying to figure out where does he go? What is happening? So maybe that's just me. I'm not a big fan. I'm not a big fan of that being allowed. We could have a whole convo about that and Internet. Come at me. Come at me. It's fine. I mean, let's have a discussion. I just don't. I don't think it should be allowed.

[Jo]

I don't have a problem with it being a lab. I would. Obviously, I would never do it because I want to. I'm. I'm spending the money to be in this tournament. I'm gonna give it my best.

[Patrick]

Full attention.

[Jo]

Full attention.

[Patrick]

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I'm just jealous.

[Jo]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Maybe I'm just like, I can't. I can't do the multitask that way. Well, let's also talk about the fact that shot clocks are back.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

And in the middle of day seven. So that's also something this week that has been a hot topic.

[Jo]

First time ever.

[Patrick]

Yeah. And we're gonna do it halfway through. Not a fan of that either. Just a bucket of fun today.

[Jo]

Well, I think the hard part is that they. They did it on a win. Almost.

[Guest Expert]

It.

[Patrick]

See, it feels that way. There's no why that I've seen.

[Jo]

Well, there's Plenty of why. Like, there were. There were a couple of situations with the one guy tanking for almost 15 minutes.

[Patrick]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Jo]

Which is kind of on the players. Because call a clock.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Jo]

But also don't tank for 15 minutes. Then there was.

[Patrick]

I can't imagine sitting there making anybody else sit there that long. No, I really. I mean, what's the point in the decision? And then that's like being the money.

[Jo]

Yeah. It's to ladder up to the next level. Chris Brewer, which, you know, I love Chris Brewer. But he was like, it's insanely unfair. He. He thinks it's insanely unfair to the rec players. Sean Beeb thinks that it's actually helping the rec players. So it's a, it's a, it's a big debate there. But you had the guy tanking for 15 minutes. That was day six, I think it was 72 left. And a player says out loud, he says, I'm gonna let you tank to make the pay jump. And the whole table sat there silent, didn't say anything. They just let him take. And so it, it's not okay.

[Patrick]

I don't really know how to respond to that.

[Jo]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

So I think I had to just been like, I'm going to the bathroom. I'm gonna go eat my snack. Then. Yeah, what are we doing here?

[Jo]

So the guy tanking for 15 minutes, I feel is disrespectful anyway. And then you have the rest of the table. That's okay with it. And says out loud, I going to let you tank to make the pages.

[Patrick]

But also these are the moments. School teacher days. Nobody said you couldn't.

[Guest Expert]

True.

[Patrick]

And that's where that, that level thinking is like, I'm not breaking any rules. You didn't tell me I couldn't. So I'm going to bend it to my advantage.

[Jo]

Which is why sh.

[Patrick]

Yeah. So lots of people are pissed people. Because it was. It wasn't. It's kind of out of left field. But I think this is also to protect the. I'm not going to say the integrity of the game, but the pace of the game.

[Jo]

Both. I think they're true.

[Patrick]

So let's see. Let's see how it goes. And always something. I told you this at the beginning of the series. There's always something that happens like this.

[Jo]

So the shot clock will be 20 seconds pre flop and then 30 second flop for every street thereafter.

[Patrick]

So that's kind of fast.

[Jo]

It's not. I mean, it's not bad because you also have six time banks. Cards per day. So you.

[Patrick]

I guess I've never really timed myself.

[Jo]

I mean, if you think about a 30 second commercial, how long that is, then you have an entire commercial.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I guess maybe it just seems extreme. Like could have been 15 minutes and I got 30 seconds.

[Elliot]

That's.

[Jo]

That is extreme, you know?

[Patrick]

Well, let's just see. Let's see what happens. They always bring a little twist. There's a little twist. There's always a little twist.

[Jo]

Yeah. And then kind of WSOP adjacent, you had Jared Greiner, who cashed his money out and then went back to his Airbnb $58,000. Yeah, it's just.

[Patrick]

I don't understand. I just.

[Jo]

They said he had. They said he had been hog tied and robbed of his entire.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I did watch local news about this. I have been going to local Vegas news about this, and as of yesterday, I have not looked at it today. He has not filed a complaint with Airbnb. Somehow these folks, these robbers knew the code. They were inside.

[Jo]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

So they knew the code to the Airbnb, which means to me, either they've been scoping it out or they know him.

[Jo]

Right.

[Patrick]

And he's caught on somebody else's ring cam with duct tape and he's asking for help. So he hadn't filed a claim with Airbnb, but Airbnb said they were working to get him compensated for his stay. I don't know any more details other than just like,

[Jo]

woof, yeah, get a check.

[Patrick]

Just get a check. Just get a check. Just get a check. I mean, there's. Nobody needs to be carrying around backpacks of cash.

[Jo]

Yeah, I mean, we're in the. It's 2026. Right.

[Patrick]

So I hate that thing, but I use it sometimes, too.

[Jo]

It's. Well, it's 2026. Like, we don't need to be carrying cash. We should be. They have the WSOP app where you can do all these things, so. So I hate that. I hate that for sure.

[Patrick]

But it does make me sick to my stomach. Couple other things, though. Vegas, the Nugget got an upgrade. I cannot wait. I did love that room, though. And I hope they still play Cash on the Tingle. I just made my whole day when I took some of these hundred dollars.

[Jo]

It wasn't even about the $100. It was about the fact that it was. He had set the hundred dollars out there like he was slopping.

[Patrick]

And then I just took it. Yeah, I like having that Honda in front of me. That hundo gives you some confidence. Right? But looks Beautiful. It does absolutely looks stunning. They did go from 13 tables down to nine. Yeah. But you can plug your phone in, you can have table side service.

[Jo]

It's definitely an upgrade for sure.

[Patrick]

Yeah. Looking forward to it. But how. I mean, nine tables is going to be pushing it because at least during that ASOP time it was packed.

[Jo]

Yeah. We were on a waiting list for quite a while before we got a seat.

[Patrick]

I mean, there's plenty of stuff to do there. So while you wait.

[Jo]

It's true. That is true. And then one more thing. With the main event. I know it fell short of the main event record.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Jo]

But the series as a whole is breaking the record for most entries.

[Patrick]

Okay. I love that.

[Jo]

So high five.

[Patrick]

Love that. I love, love that statistic. I did not heard that yet. So that does. Participation's up. Yeah. Maybe just not in the most expensive main event.

[Jo]

Right, right. I think that last year was the, was the record and it was 246,000 something. And they've reached over 247,000 now.

[Patrick]

Congratulations, WSOP.

[Jo]

Well done.

[Patrick]

I'm. We do say this every week. Major fomo.

[Jo]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

I've been, I've been messaging people behind the scenes like, is it, is it really as beautiful as looks? Smell like that? It is. It is as pretty as it looks. The store is as cool. The. I mean, the bathroom breaks are still horrific, but whatever.

[Jo]

I don't know what you can do about that.

[Patrick]

Yeah. There just get up and go. Yeah, just get up and go and, and, and pick your spot. Just like pick your spot to shove. Pick your spot to go to the bathroom.

[Jo]

We're gonna be just, we're gonna be talking about exactly that on call a Fuller, actually.

[Patrick]

Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. Well, sometimes you just gotta, you gotta make your move. Yeah. We do have a lot coming up. I'm gonna say you're headed out to Alaska with us. Look for an email from poker player Cruises, because we're bringing themes to the ocean. Yeah, we are. I mean, I just think like the lumberjack showdown or an icy luau.

[Jo]

I love it.

[Patrick]

It's happening. Yeah, it's happening. Can't wait to see Linda and Jan.

[Jo]

You're going to get to see that.

[Patrick]

That's what I'm just gonna say. But I'm also going to get an extra spot because I just booked my ticket to Jacksonville.

[Jo]

Yeah.

[Guest Expert]

Boom.

[Patrick]

I'm going to play in a Ladies International Poker Series event. Maybe maybe two, maybe three and some cash. Yeah. July 30th to August 2nd.

[Jo]

It's the Florida State Ladies Championship, right? That's officially what it is.

[Patrick]

Yes.

[Jo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick]

So sorry, I forgot. I'm going there first. Then we're down on a boat. Then Rivers Casino, Schenectady.

[Jo]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

We're going to be there in September. Congratulations to Lee taking down that $300 mini main which was $102,000. Take home over that.

[Jo]

And they use. They have rubber duck as their card protector, I hear.

[Patrick]

Yes. So we may be on the lookout for one for you. We'll bring you a special one in in September. So congratulations. They well made their 50,000 guarantee. Love those many, many main series that are happening up there. And then October, San Diego, baby.

[Guest Expert]

Here we go. Yeah.

[Jo]

Sequan in in October.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Jo]

The SoCal classic. Annie stop. And of course we've talked about it numerous times beforehand. If you want to go check out the property. They have so many promotions going on. They're the number one poker room in Southern California. So check them out, come see us. And then December is we wrap up the year.

[Patrick]

It's our championship at the Venetian. So Tommy has welcomed us back with open arms and we could not be more excited about that. Avoiding F1 this year. Totally okay. Hopefully avoiding the rain. Totally okay. Avoiding the 105 degree temperature. Totally okay with that. That's the only thing that I don't miss. I actually had a co worker message me this week that said we were just out there and it was so hot and I was like, yeah, don't miss it. Yeah, don't miss that. I don't miss that. But all the details everybody. If you're interested, check out our website in the upcoming events and stay tuned to our socials. Lots and lots of good stuff coming out of the magazine this month. Let me just say Rob Fulfer with poker beats.

[Jo]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Stacked his article this month. I mean stacked unstacked of awesome.

[Jo]

Here's the thing. You can have an article that is long and you're like, oh my God, I don't want to read all that. That's so long. And then you have one like that. That is juicy. It's fun.

[Patrick]

Yes.

[Jo]

Because we all love music anyway. So it's, it's a fun read.

[Patrick]

I just got a sneak peek for next. For next issue. Even better.

[Jo]

Really?

[Patrick]

Yes, yes. I'm serious. So if you haven't checked out the magazine this month, it is, it is full of some chock full of really good strategy. Just interesting items that are around. Poker Jasmine's dealer survey is in there. If you have not passed that on to your dealer Friends continue to pass that around. She's only got a couple more weeks to. That's open. Tons of good stuff. Yeah, tons and tons and tons of good stuff. But before we head out into the weekend, we have to send out a reminder. Patreon next week. Game off. Yeah, we took a little break this week for puppy.

[Jo]

That's right. Patrick's going to be defending his title next week.

[Patrick]

Oh, gosh. Target on his back. It's the hold' em game then.

[Jo]

It is.

[Patrick]

Yes. Okay. I can't wait.

[Jo]

And you get to get a little practice in before you head out. Yeah.

[Patrick]

And tomorrow I'll eat. Can eat sushi with our friends.

[Jo]

Yeah. And I'll.

[Patrick]

As always, Jo, it's a pleasure being around the table with you.

[Jo]

Likewise.

[Elliot]

Elliot's wisdom cuts like a blade. Dropping true bombs with a poker parade.

[Jo]

Big blinds, big stakes, raise it up.

[Elliot]

Let's make no mistake.

[Jo]

Elliot Schecker joins us each week to say how he would rule on situations that come up in your games. And he's with us again this week. Elliot, how's it going?

[Guest Expert]

Going pretty nicely. Our heat wave just broke. It's back to normal temperatures. Action's been good? Yeah, it's been good. How you doing?

[Jo]

Good. Getting. Getting ready for a crazy end of the year. Right, Because l heads out to Jacksonville for the LIPS tournament coming up at the end of the month. And then it's the Cruise and then it's Schenectady, and then it's San Diego at Sequan. And then. Then before you know it, it's Thanksgiving and then we are off to Vegas. So it's. It's going to be a. A fun end to the year for sure.

[Guest Expert]

Nice.

[Jo]

I'm looking forward to it. But in the meantime, we have a call the floor this week. It's sent in by Dave Miller, and Dave plays in our Patreon game. And it's been fun because his. His screen name is Rev Dave. And so he. Nobody wants to take him out because they're afraid to take a reverend out or something.

[Elliot]

Oh, geez.

[Guest Expert]

Could be revolution.

[Jo]

It can be anything, right?

[Guest Expert]

Revolting. A whole bunch of things in the Rev.

[Jo]

It works in his favor. We'll just say that.

[Guest Expert]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jo]

But Dave, he says, I played in my first WSOP or in my first WSOP event. About 15 minutes before the second break, I asked the table what the restroom situation is like during breaks. All those that had played before agreed that you're far better off missing a couple hands rather than waiting.

[Guest Expert]

This is true.

[Jo]

Two hands later, I'm in the cutoff and get dealt crappy cards and immediately push them forward and begin to get up. The dealer tells me to sit and wait until it's my turn to act. So I sit, wait to fold, then finally do so and run to the restroom. When I returned, the dealer explained that folding out of turn is a rule violation that could draw a penalty. And Dave says, a rule? Really? I mean, I totally understand all the reasons why it's discouraged, particularly when it's post flop, multi handed, but pre flop, when some people haven't even looked at their cards yet. A rule with a penalty. And besides, after asking the table about it and attempting to fold, everyone knows I'm folding that hand. So what was the point of having my cards returned just so I can fold in turn? And he says, side note, during the break, I checked. There was a long line to get into the restroom. Missing a couple of hands was absolutely the right move.

[Guest Expert]

Oh yeah, yeah. Missing the couple hands there is definitely a plus ev, as my fellow players would say. I'm ready to cue George Costanza. Of course, a rule. I just thought it was frowned upon.

[Jo]

That's the first thing I thought of when I read that too.

[Guest Expert]

Playing out of turn is not allowed. Play is supposed to go in clockwise sequential order. And there's a lot of reasons for this, but mainly the game is played clockwise and it's played in order. It's not played consecutive and it's not played whenever you want. People don't get to act in a betting round whenever they so choose. I think there probably need to be more warnings and penalties given to players who bet and raise out of turn. I completely agree with that concept. Once again, we know how to remedy this situation. What bets count, what bets don't, what bets may be remove, what bets may be made over. But we really don't warn enough. I generally have given out plenty of warnings and the occasional penalty to players who have have been raised out of turn in the tournaments I have run. Folding out of turn, especially before the flop, is consequential for any number of reasons. Chiefly, you really are disclosing the contents of your hand. If you were dealt the cards and looked at them and then decided to fold out a turn. Everybody knows you've got crappy cards and they could pretty much put those cards in a bad range and know what cards are not in play and what cards you don't have. I'm gonna say if you had two matching pictures or, or, or aces or a very, very high ace suited you're not letting go of the hand. You're probably playing and raising. So right, you're folding out of turn. Lets everybody know. So yeah, penalty needs to be, needs to be invoked. And let's go to a very absurd length. What if it's three handed and you're on the button and you fold out of turn? Or you're the, you're the small blind and you fold out of turn. You've now removed either other, either of the other players ability to bluff at the pot successfully because they're now heads up as opposed to three handed. There's nobody who will ever feel caught in the middle. Another great reason to not allow people to bet and fold out of turn. So again, you're reducing everybody's power. Especially in a shorthanded game. If you're folding out of turn and getting up from the table, you have reduced the ability of other players to actually play their hands correctly and you've given away the contents of your hand or what is not in your hand. So yeah, those are not unimportant. They're all a part of the game. If you wanted to not play the hand, you, you should have gotten up as soon as you had finished your hand on the button. This way you would not have been there to actually look at the cards and give away any information and your hand would have been killed as soon as all the cards were off the deck. So again, we'd rather players sit there for the hands they're dealt. But again, if you're away from the table before the cards are dealt, no harm, no foul. Everybody's got to get up for a good reason, blow their nose, get a drink of water, go to the restroom. And those are excusable. Players aren't robots and they're not camels. Right? So we expect them to actually get it from the table once in a while, but in a considerate and mindful manner. So you're receiving the cards and then trying to fold out a turn was exceptionally discourteous and is against the rules for good reason. I'm glad to see the WSMP stepping up and, and definitely enforcing it that other tournaments do too. You had other options. You didn't just have to wait for the cards to come to you and then fold. You could have just gotten up before the cards were dealt with not knowing what you had. But if you wanted every single opportunity to play in good position, you should have sat there and played. I really don't know how much more I can expound on this. Unless you'd like to ask some follow ups. In which case I'm sure we can more broadly discuss this situation and rule.

[Jo]

Well, I felt pretty certain there was a rule, but I wasn't sure what the rule exactly was. So do you, do you know off the top of your head or, or.

[Guest Expert]

Oh yeah, rules. And, and, and I want to get to Dave's other question. What was the point of giving him back his cards if they were merely to be folded again and that was merely ceremonial. Don't mistake. You're getting your cards back is to mean you have a live hand. Now that is not the case because the rule covering action out of turn explicitly states a fold. Out of turn is always a fold. So your cards were dead no matter what they were given back to you so that it would just more easily progress the action for other players. We didn't want the player on your direct left waiting for you to. To do something when you obviously had no cards in front of you with which to act. So yes, you were given the cards back so you could promote the action correctly. The dealer went out of the way to explain all this and that was great. Probably no floor person in the immediate vicinity. If there was, I, I certainly would hope that dealer would call the floor to explain this as opposed to challenging the player on the spot. Not the best look, but I appreciate them actually coming forward and informing you. But still, it's not like the only option was to get delta cards, look at them and then fold out of turn. That was not the only option you had available to you. And that's the option we don't want players taking. Which is why there's a rule against it in the WSP rule book which is rather extensive and much larger than the TDA rules. It's in there somewhere. I don't have them handy. Or else I. I quoted to you chapter on verse.

[Jo]

So is it a, is it a WSOP rule or is it a universal in TDA rule as well?

[Guest Expert]

It's in the TDA as well. Yeah, we've had a quite a good agreement. We don't want that to happen. It's just not good for the game. Once again, playing out of turn is not good. If you're not at your seat and your hand is killed. That's different. You weren't there to act on it. Nobody acted out of turn. You weren't eligible to actually play, to continue to play the hand. People are up from the table. Any number of reasons. We have a whole lot of Internet bloggers. Yeah, they've got to get their content produced. They're. They're going to miss some hands here and there too. But yeah, if you're at the table, you're expected to actually follow the rules of the game while you're at the table playing. It's not an unreasonable expectation on the part of the tournament operators and therefore is not a. An unreasonable thing to expect from the players.

[Jo]

So I assumed that was kind of the direction. I assumed there was a rule, like I said, but I wasn't sure what it was. But I guess the part that surprised me was that when they gave him his cards back that he did not have all of his options anymore.

[Guest Expert]

Yeah, just because you get your cards back doesn't mean they're live. And if you tried to act on them, that had been a problem. That's called the floor spot. And the floor would gladly explain that a fold that of turn is still a fold. Otherwise it's an incredible angle and it cannot be abided. Once again, action in must be played in turn sequentially and consecutively. So, yeah, the only way to truly enforce that is to make sure that angle shots are deflected effectively.

[Jo]

Well, Dave, I appreciate you sending that in that, that it really is one that you, you touched on it at the beginning, Elliot. Like we don't bring enough attention to it. And I don't know if it's just that we've become too relaxed on it or people are.

[Guest Expert]

I don't think we've become too relaxed. I think because we have an obvious and enforceable remedy for action out of turn that we think we've done enough and it's easy to move on. And, and generally most people being reasonable will. Okay, right. I shouldn't have done that. I. Well, a lot of people don't. It's pretty effective, which is why we have rules and why we need a penalty. Because let's talk about exposing your hand. Before the no disclosure and no exposure rules came into play, it was very commonplace in the late stages, even the early stages of tournaments, for a player even in turn, to move all in and turn over the races for everybody to see so they could fold before the flop. Because. And this was when blind structures were a little less forgiving and more draconian. It was incredibly essential to survive rather than accumulate as many chips as possible at any one time. And that's still the nature of tournament play. After the entry period is over, the. The chip pool and amount of chips is finite. So your chips are worth. Are worth quite a bit, even if you don't have too many more of them. Surviving and letting other people eliminate themselves from the tournament is a pretty big key to obviously laddering and getting paid. So everybody with aces and kings were pretty much turning their hands over and getting, getting the blinds or blinds and Annie's, and the game was obviously becoming a little less playable and a lot less fair. Those rules came about. The same principle applies to betting out of turn. You move all in out of turn, you're almost always gonna have something. But again, if you're four seats away from the blind, but obviously a few seats away from the button and you raise now, you stand a very good chance of, of getting the players to your right between you and the blind out immediately, which drastically increases your chances of survival because now you're obviously facing fewer live opponents, which is why the game needs to be played in turn. The same principle carries from concept to concept, which is why these rules need

[Patrick]

to be

[Guest Expert]

quite efficiently and directly enforced.

[Jo]

Right. Well, Dave, I appreciate you sending that in. If anyone has a call the floor that they would like to know how Elliot would send it to podcastnetmagazine.com Elliot, appreciate it as always.

[Guest Expert]

I'm glad to do it. I wanted to thank Dave too. Dave's been a very enthusiastic supporter of the TDA and tournament poker in general, and I wanted to thank him for all those years and nothing personal here, but you asked my opinion and. Well, I gave it

[Elliot]

as.

[Jo]

As we can always count on you to do for sure. But yeah, absolutely. Dave, we appreciate you. Like I said, we appreciate you always joining us when you can in the patre games and, and being a supporter of the show and the TDA as well. So thanks again. And Elliot, we'll see you next week.

[Guest Expert]

Absolutely. Look forward to him.

[Jo]

Welcome to Hand of the Week where Patrick, our resident fish and I dive into listener submitted hands each week. We tackle everything from questionable bluffs to hero calls and the hands that make you scratch your head. Whether you're looking for strategy tips or you just want to see if we would have played it any better, we've got you covered. Patrick, welcome back.

[Elliot]

Appreciate that, my friend. Got a little, little tang going on. Beach is always nice.

[Jo]

Yeah, you know, you're, you're more tan than, than when we came back from the cruise.

[Elliot]

Yeah, but you spent a lot more time playing inside.

[Jo]

We did, we did.

[Elliot]

I chased a four year old around the beach in the pool for, for five days, so I was plenty exhausted afterwards, but it was, it's a blast. And he's turned into definitely A little water bug. So I'll take it.

[Jo]

Yeah. Love that look.

[Elliot]

Beach vacations. The biggest decision on the planet is what time are you coming back to make your turkey and, you know, ham, turkey sandwich for lunch, and what sea and what seafood are you eating at night? And those are the biggest decisions you gotta make all day. It's great.

[Jo]

Yeah. That's the life, isn't it?

[Elliot]

It is. And you know what? I. For the people that say, like, I, you know, I have an aunt and uncle, have a beach house. I've got a couple of clients that have beach houses. And, you know, they all seem pretty happy. You know, my aunt and uncle still work and they, they're. They can work remotely a lot of times, and they're down there a lot. For all the people that say that they don't want a beach house because they, it will take care, you know, take away from the nostalgia. Sorry, I think you're crazy. I. I'm waiting for my, my youngest to graduate high school, and then my wife and I are moving to the beach. That. That's the plan. So I got another.

[Jo]

That's the plan. All right.

[Elliot]

Another 14 years. The music's great. It's wonderful.

[Jo]

Yeah.

[Elliot]

So that being said, how are you? How are things here? Life good?

[Jo]

Everything's good. You know, we, we showed everybody last week the new puppy. So.

[Elliot]

Yeah, we have a new member of the, the family there of any up poker family.

[Jo]

We, we. We've been chasing him around quite a bit. He got stung by a yellow jacket yesterday. Nothing serious. But he bounced back pretty, pretty easy. So, you know, had his checkups and everything looks good. So I like it. Yeah. Other than that, we do have a hand of the week this week. Let's do it. Is sent in by Ernest Hall. Oh, and we're playing seven card studio.

[Elliot]

You know what? I'm okay with that as long as it's not some pineapple nonsense or whatever out there. I still have ptsd. All right. Seven stud.

[Jo]

Seven card stud. We're playing two, four, fixed limit.

[Elliot]

Did you say fixed limit?

[Jo]

Yeah. So that means that there's a small bet and there's a big bet. So your first few streets. So third street, fourth street, those bets are just $2. And then fifth street on will be $4 bets minimum.

[Elliot]

Six. Interesting.

[Jo]

Okay, and your raises, your raises will have to be in those increments. So if you want to raise.

[Elliot]

Can I raise it 20 times and, you know, make it, you know.

[Jo]

No, there's, there's a cap on the raises as well, so. You're not going to see all ins, you know, without it being late in the day.

[Guest Expert]

All right?

[Jo]

We're eight handed. So just to make sure you're on the same page before we get started, Patrick, instead you make your own best five card hand from your own seven cards, right? There are no community cards.

[Elliot]

You get three. What? Three down, two up, two down, two

[Jo]

down, four up, one down.

[Elliot]

I was. Not even close. One might say not even in the ballpark.

[Jo]

So you do have three down, but the last one doesn't come until the river or the last three. So you were, you were.

[Elliot]

Okay, I was just jumbling it. It's fine.

[Jo]

Two down, four up, one down. And there are no antes in this one. There's only a bring in and there's.

[Elliot]

Which means seven streets, right?

[Jo]

Yes. Okay. Yeah.

[Elliot]

Ernest, listen, you're putting me to the test. A week back from vacation, my friend.

[Jo]

So will have a bring in and the bring in does not have the choice to fold.

[Guest Expert]

Okay?

[Jo]

He must do the bring in of $2 or he can raise to four. That's his only choices in this one. We have $120 to start in the hole. So face down cards, we have the ace of spades, six of spades, and our up card that everybody can see is the ace of diamonds. So we have what you call split aces. We have one up and one down. So a pair of aces, one of them's hidden. What do you think?

[Elliot]

I like that.

[Jo]

I guess I should find out who the bring in is.

[Elliot]

See, just assuming it wasn't us, because you didn't say it.

[Jo]

But the four of clubs is the low card, which is the bring in. So they bring it in for $2. They have $140 in their stack. And there's another player showing the nine of hearts. He calls the $2, and they have $130 behind. And we also have a player showing the king of clubs that calls the $2 and has $80 left behind. Now action is on us showing the ace of diamonds.

[Elliot]

Well, I mean, we're in pretty good position with aces.

[Jo]

Yeah, it's obviously it's a great hand to start with. It can get vulnerable later though, so potentially yes.

[Elliot]

Why would like to raise?

[Jo]

Okay, that means you can make it $4.

[Elliot]

$4. You know what, we're going to agree on a lot of raises today, you know.

[Jo]

Yeah, it's true.

[Elliot]

First time in the history of. Well, you know, we don't play a lot of Stud 7 cards. All right, well, I'm raising $4 it is.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Jo]

Same. I'm going to make it for split aces. Great hand. I want to charge the other three players who decided to enter this pot. I think calling is not a good choice because that's inviting everyone into the hand. The only thing I will say, though, the thing about student is knowing. It's important to know, you know, the. The cards that are already out. Right. Earnest only tells us the cards that called, so we have to hope those aren't. Those ones that folded aren't important to us. Yeah, but with that in mind, I mean, I think the cards that we do know, the cards that are out there, are in our favor. There's no other ace showing. We have two spades, right?

[Elliot]

Yeah, two spades.

[Jo]

So, yeah, we make it four. Ernest makes it four as well. Smart. And he says, I've got a pair of aces, the best starting pair there is. With two callers already in and a low card bring in. My up card is an ace. So if I raise, it's obvious I have at least a big ace, maybe aces. That's fine. I want to raise here. With aces, I'm happy to thin the field and build the pot. While I'm a clear favorite, playing a big pair against fewer opponents is exactly what I want to do. The more people who see more cards, the more likely one of them outdraws my one pair. So says I'll raise the $4 to charge the drawing hands and ideally get someone to fold. Seems pretty spot on. The bring in folds giving up his $2. The nine of hearts and the king of clubs both call. That's not surprising. I think we got exactly what we could hope for there. With the bring in going out, the pot is what, $14. With three players to 4th Street. We get the eight of diamonds. So we have ace, eight of diamonds, showing an ace, six of spades hidden. So still just a pair of aces. Ace eight showing the nine gets a jack also of hearts. So they have two hearts. Now the start of a flush draw. And it's pretty connected. Jack, nine. That could go toward a straight. And the king gets a three of diamonds. So king high. That's not really any help there.

[Elliot]

You said three of diamonds.

[Jo]

Yeah.

[Elliot]

Okay, well, there's one of our diamonds gone.

[Jo]

Yeah. Now, the highest hand that starts the action is with us with ace high.

[Elliot]

I still feel pretty great.

[Jo]

Okay.

[Elliot]

And my limit is four correct.

[Jo]

No, two.

[Elliot]

I can't lead in for four.

[Jo]

No, you. You will start the first couple of streets. You start with two, and then you go to four.

[Elliot]

When Am I allowed to go to four? Remind me what street.

[Jo]

Fifth Street. So the one after this one.

[Elliot]

Okay. All right, well, two it is.

[Jo]

Yeah, I mean, we didn't improve per se, but we still, I feel like, probably have the best hand. The nine picked up the dangerous card with the jack of hearts. Yeah, they've got a ton of straight potential, but the king, I mean, looks like they missed everything, right?

[Elliot]

Oh, yeah. That was a total miss. Yeah.

[Jo]

So maybe we can get rid of them and just have heads up, heads up here. I mean, they could still have something, a buried king in there and have split kings like we do aces. But then we're still ahead. Right. I again, kind of like on the prior street. Checking gives everyone a free card and I don't want to do that. So $2 it is. Earnest also bets $2. He says still confident. Aces are best. The jack nine calls the two and king three folds.

[Elliot]

There you go.

[Jo]

He says still just one pair, but I have no doubt that I have the best hand right now. Jack 9 has two hearts working. So he's probably on a draw. I want to make him pay to chase. So I bet the king folding is exactly what I wanted. Now the pot is $18 and we are heads up. Now we're on Fifth Street. So all bets from here on out are $4. Starting there. Heroes board. He picks up the eight of clubs.

[Elliot]

We do or.

[Jo]

Yeah, us.

[Elliot]

Okay, eight of clubs.

[Jo]

Yeah.

[Elliot]

Okay.

[Jo]

Earnest picks up two pair now. Ace of diamonds. Eight of diamonds. Eight of clubs showing. Ace of spades. And the ace of spades bears six of spades. The jack nine picks up the queen of hearts.

[Elliot]

We don't love that.

[Jo]

Three hearts plus a ton of straight potential there. That looks like a genuinely scary board.

[Elliot]

It does. Unless they have two of clubs, five of clubs.

[Jo]

Right. We, we are still first to act with our pair. That's showing. It's a much closer decision now. What do you think?

[Elliot]

Yeah, my gut says to, to check back here. Obviously he knows what his board looks like. He sees that we've got an ace with, with a pair showing. I, I don't know how much you know, because obviously bet sizing isn't what it is. You know, when we're playing Oldham, you know, no limit, but, you know, if he leads into four, you got to think that he's, you know, at least representing that he's got an, you know, potentially another heart or feeling very good about them because you still have. Yeah, well, one, two. I mean, he's got two more streets to go, so I think I check into him here.

[Jo]

Okay. I think if we check every time our opponent catches scary cards, then we're going to allow drawing cards, drawing hands to see 6th street for free. So that's fair.

[Elliot]

That's a good call. Good point. Excuse me.

[Jo]

We were ahead on third street. We're ahead on fourth street. I want to bet $4.

[Elliot]

Okay.

[Jo]

I would also, I think, have a plan if they raised me, Because, you know, if they raise, I think I probably still call, but play it cautiously from there. So. Yeah, yeah, I think my, my plan is to bet for and hope they don't raise me.

[Elliot]

Yeah, but, but call a race.

[Jo]

Yes.

[Elliot]

For now. Yeah. Okay.

[Jo]

Ernest also bets $4. I like this. Ernest and I are on the same page. Our opponent does raise us here though. So he makes it eight. What does that mean? He has queen, jack, nine of hearts.

[Elliot]

He's got at least another heart. You got to think with that. Yeah, he gets the 10 of hearts or the king of hearts or the 8 of hearts. No, not necessarily. I mean, but yeah, I, I,

[Jo]

I, for whatever reason, I don't think he has two hearts in the hole. So I like the idea that you were just saying like the king or the 10 where he's maybe even the 8, 10. Probably where he's open ended.

[Guest Expert]

Yeah.

[Jo]

And has a lot of potential on the hand. I mean, it costs us $4 now to continue in a $30 pot. So getting the right price to call, which is really the good thing about limit poker. Right.

[Elliot]

I was just gonna say the limit poker kind of, you know, solves that because you get to see. Maybe I should start playing these games more often because I, you know, I can, I, I can call a lot more. I don't have to use that dreaded F word.

[Jo]

Yeah, well, you do have to be kind of careful because if you, if you just keep calling, calling, calling, calling, calling, then before you know it, you're like, where did all my chips go?

[Elliot]

Yeah, you're, you're bleeding and not even know it. Yeah, I mean, I, my, my thought is I don't even know if it's the 10 of hearts. I mean, it could be, but a 10 for sure. Or a heart that's close. Like an 8 or, or a king. I think he's still drawing. I think, you know, if we catch an ace or an 8, you know, I'm feeling pretty good.

[Jo]

What? I don't think I want to do this. Just preface that before I say it. But what happens if we re, raise them?

[Elliot]

I think you find out A lot if you get re raised again.

[Jo]

Right. But then are we just unnecessarily bloating the pot?

[Elliot]

I think you are at that point.

[Jo]

Yeah, I don't want to do that

[Elliot]

but no, I'm not doing that. Just call.

[Jo]

Ernest does. Ernest calls the four as well. He says good news and bad news. I made aces up a solid two pair but they now showing three hearts. A big flush draw and he just raised me. He's either semi bluffing, charging me with a big draw or already made two pair or better himself. If he made two pair or better himself, then we're probably ahead because he didn't make aces and something. His raise on a three flesh board with one card already exposes very often a draw. Trying to buy a free card or build his own pot. He says I'm not folding two pair to a drawing board on fifth.

[Elliot]

Yep.

[Jo]

So the pot is $34 and we get our final up card. We get the two of spades and they get the four of spades.

[Elliot]

Well don't like it for us but love it for them.

[Jo]

Yeah. Doesn't complete the flesh.

[Elliot]

We're still ahead. I, I, I don't think they're sitting there with eight, ten or two hearts or king ten. King ten. Yeah, that's a little more likely.

[Jo]

That's still that that's the biggest problem that I have with this board is it's scary because there are so many possibilities here. So we're still first if they have

[Elliot]

and if they have an eight and that's one of our aids gone.

[Jo]

Yeah, we're still first to act because we still show the, the pair on the board. So what do you want to do?

[Elliot]

Check. I found out what I needed to find out last time. The four of spades and the two of spades doesn't really help or affect us in any which way, shame form or fashion. I don't need to blow the pot anymore. I'll call if he comes in with four, but I'm checking.

[Jo]

Yeah, I think I can do that.

[Elliot]

I think, I think he's, I think with that, that, that raise last street, I think he's going to bet anyways. So I don't care to let him see, you know, one more card for free at this point.

[Jo]

So yeah, well I, I just worry about getting raised right again.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Jo]

So if we lead, that's what probably happens as we get raised again most likely. So we can check and Then call his $4 bet. Earnest checks as well. And as expected, our villain bets and earnest calls so the pot is $42. We get our last card and it will be down.

[Elliot]

Down.

[Jo]

We get the five of hearts.

[Elliot]

Well, we took one of their hearts.

[Jo]

Yep. So we're still first to act.

[Elliot]

I've put enough chips in. I'm checking.

[Jo]

Here's what let's. What does our opponent know?

[Elliot]

What. What I don't know yet is what they got on their seventh street.

[Jo]

True. But what they know about us already, we. They saw us completely.

[Elliot]

Did Ernest tell us what we. He got?

[Jo]

We don't know yet because we gotta get them. Yeah.

[Elliot]

I'll tell you what, man. Brains in a pretzel. What we do know is that the 7th street card is down.

[Jo]

That is. That is true. We know.

[Elliot]

We know that.

[Jo]

Without a doubt. Unless.

[Elliot]

And we know we took. And we know we took one of their hearts.

[Jo]

They saw us complete with. With an ace up that they could see. They saw us bet 4th Street. Bet 5th Street. Call their raise and then check. Call 6th Street. So correct. From their perspective, we could easily have two pair, which we do. Trip aces, a full house. They don't know we bricked that street. So if we bet, they have a difficult decision.

[Elliot]

I'm following you.

[Patrick]

I would.

[Jo]

I would just as soon bet here and see if we can get them to fold and us not have to show our hand. And if they raise us, it's only going to cost us $4 more. So I'm going to come out and

[Elliot]

bet if we get raised. Are you calling?

[Jo]

Yeah.

[Elliot]

With two pair. No, let me.

[Patrick]

Let me.

[Jo]

Let me think about that. No, because I don't think we get raised. If we get raised, I can fold. No sense in giving them a free. A free $4. Yeah. No, I'll bet.

[Elliot]

Fold. I think I. I think I'm in the same boat if I go that route. Yeah,

[Jo]

I think we can get called by worst two pair. We can get called by a stubborn pair like queens or jacks or something like that. And then if they missed their draws, then they fold without us having to show our cards.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Jo]

And it prevents them from checking behind. So obviously, if they made a flush or a straight, then we're. We paid $4 for it. But yeah, if I check, I'm probably calling. So it would have been $4 anyway. So I want to be the one to put it in.

[Elliot]

I can agree with that.

[Jo]

Ernest checks and our opponent bets $4.

[Elliot]

And we call.

[Jo]

Yeah. And he says, do I call $4 to see it or fold? Aces up. And the event says I eventually call. Showdown. Our opponent reveals his Hole cards. He has the. The nine of hearts, jack of hearts, queen of hearts, four of spades showing. And turns over the king of hearts, seven of clubs, three of spades. So he was drawing to the heart flush and a straight the whole way, the whole way. Bricked. Bricked everything. He needed the 10 of hearts for the straight flush, right?

[Elliot]

Yep. 10 of hearts gets him there. Yeah.

[Jo]

Yeah. So his best five card hand is just king high.

[Guest Expert]

Yeah.

[Elliot]

King of hearts, queen of hearts, jack of hearts, nine hearts, seven of clubs.

[Jo]

Then he ended up firing the. The river just to see if he could get us to fold. So ernest wins the $50 pot with two pair, aces up. So, I. E. I think that one works out the same. You can play that one a hundred different ways, and it all comes down to the same result because he put in $4 to try to get us to fold. But if we put in the $4, he probably folds.

[Guest Expert]

So.

[Elliot]

Yeah, I was just gonna ask you that, you know, not being very inexperienced and stuff like this. If we lead into him and he's, you know, totally bricked it, is he folding?

[Jo]

I think so.

[Elliot]

I think so.

[Jo]

I think so. If he wanted to try to represent there, put in the raise, then I mean, he probably would have got us to fold. Right.

[Elliot]

I was going to say. I was just going to say if he, if, if we bet there and this is, you know, this is where, you know, checking may or may not have actually worked out for us. If we bet four there and he comes over the top again, I'm probably folding.

[Jo]

Yeah. I think that the main reason, though, that I'm, I. I'm able to say with confidence that I can fold in that kind of a situation is more because people at 24 stud, they're not bluffing those rivers enough for me to be like, oh, I should call here or, or whatever.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Jo]

Not. At least not on a raise. They might, they might put a 1 bet in, but I don't know that it goes further than that. Well, there you go. You played some seven card stud.

[Elliot]

I played some seven card stud. I only fumbled over, you know, three, three or four things. I don't know if there's a fat counter out there. You can let me know what I fumbled on, but Earnest, good hand. Good win.

[Jo]

Yeah. Yeah. I think that, you know, seven card stud is a fun game because one every street feels like a real decision, you know, and hold them. I feel like there's. There's some that are not. Like, you have to really think about some of those streets paying attention to all of the things that everybody else has puts a whole different spin on it.

[Elliot]

You know.

[Jo]

You know, the. Our opponent knew that the guy that folded that had the king three, he had one of his kings. So, you know, you have to know that that's missing. I realize that's not really what he was going for, but if you are, then you have to think about that.

[Elliot]

I think there's a lot more. If I'm wrong, I think there's a lot more. What would someone call it? Strategy, I think. Yeah, because I think you're. You're seeing what the up cards are, you know, across the board.

[Patrick]

You.

[Elliot]

You're not getting as much information. I feel like, you know, after all these years of, you know, playing with you and listening and, you know, playing these hands. I've got a better idea. I don't wouldn't, you know, venture to say good, but I did win last month's Patreon game. But better idea of what bet sizing looks like on what streets and how, you know, when you're playing, you're playing a fixed limit, that's kind of takes that away. I don't have any of that strategy. I think there's a lot to this. This is very interesting. I. When I tell everyone out there, don't send any more pineapple games in. If not, I'll be sick or on that day and, you know, Elliot can jump in or somebody else. But I would play another seven card stud. I like this.

[Jo]

All right, bring it on.

[Elliot]

I like it.

[Jo]

There you go. It has been invited to bring it on. Bring in more of those. But I loved it. Love seven card stud. I'm glad that you. You enjoyed it. And if anyone has a hand of the week that they would like to know how Patrick and I played it, send it to podcastnetmagazine.com Patrick, we'll see you next week.

[Elliot]

Tell a good plan. I'll be here.

[Jo]

I've been sitting with an idea lately, and it's had to morph and change, and it's actually led me to this realization of the next best thing. I mean, we get so locked in on wanting one specific outcome, right? This job, this result, this exact version of how it's supposed to go, that if it doesn't happen, we treat it like the whole thing failed, like it was all or nothing. And what I'm learning slowly is that sometimes you have to be okay with the next best thing. Not not giving up on what you wanted, not settling, just being okay with the next best thing for right now. And the second I framed it that way, I realized poker's been teaching me this the whole time. I just wasn't listening. Think about. Think about how a hand actually goes. You look down at aces. That's the thing we wanted. We've got the best starting hand in poker, and. And we're thinking about how to get the most money possible, because that's the plan. Then the flop comes down with two spades and a connected board, and now the guy over there is leading into us. The scene changes. Our aces are still aces, but the situation isn't what we drew up at all. Now, the win isn't stacking this guy. The win might be just getting to showdown cheap or folding to save our tournament life. That's the next best thing. And honestly, the players who can't make that shift, the ones still chasing the fantasy they had pre flop, they're just lighting money on fire. And it's not just one spot either. If there are hundreds of them. It's open. Shoving your last 12 big blinds, but having to settle for a chip up because everyone folded. I mean, it's not the double up we were hoping for, but we're still alive. It's grinding all day toward a final table. And then when we bust in 14th, realizing that amend cash still pays for the trip, it still moves us up the leaderboard, still means we did a lot right. The trophy was the goal. The cash is the next best thing. And it counts. Maybe flopping a monster, betting for value and watching everybody fold. So instead of the big pot we pictured, we're raking in a small one and moving on. Not it's not the dream, but it's still a win. The hard part isn't finding the next best thing. It's letting go of the version in your head long enough to see it. Because as long as you're gripping that original outcome with both hands, you can't play the hand that's actually in front of you. That's what I've been trying to do with Annie up and in life in general, really. But sometimes the plan doesn't show up the way we drew it on the whiteboard. The timing's off, the deal changes. The thing we wanted this month becomes a thing we're working toward next quarter. And you get this choice, the same choice you get after a bad flop. You can spend the whole session bitter that it's not the hand you wanted, or you can look down, see what you actually have, and ask, okay, what's the best I can do from here? Being okay with the next best thing doesn't mean folding your dreams. You still want the double up. You still want the final table. You still want the exact things you wanted. You just stop letting it has to be perfect or it doesn't count. Run your stack into the ground. You take the chip up, you take the min cash. You take the small pot. You stay in the tournament. Because staying in is how you give the good stuff a chance to come around again. So the question this week is simple. When the flop doesn't cooperate, and it won't, not every time can you stop mourning the hand you wanted long enough to win the hand you've got. Find the next best thing, take it and keep playing. Keep that's today's one outer and that's today's show. I'll see you next week. A team. And until then, I'll see you at the tables.

[Guest Expert]

The Antioch Podcast is a production of Antiopmagazine.com contact the show at podcastsyupmagazine.com or call the show at 540-339-7741. If you'd to like like to advertise, send an email to [e-mail].