Loading summary
Transcript310 lines
- [00:01]
Grainger Announcer
Grainger knows. When you're a procurement manager for an office park, you're not managing one building, you're managing all of them. And to stay ahead, you need to see through walls and around corners. Lights about to fail. Filters ready to clog. H Vac on its last leg. If you wait until something breaks, you're already behind. Count on Grainger for quality products, easy reordering and 24. 7 support. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.
- [00:30]
Host 1 (Female)
Take
- [00:33]
Patrick
your seat. The cars are flying high. Shuffle up and deal at the Aces
- [00:38]
Host 2 (Male)
Lie longest running show.
- [00:41]
Patrick
Yeah, we've seen it all. From the river to the rail, we answer the call.
- [00:48]
Host 2 (Male)
Welcome back to another episode of the Anti at Poker podcast, where every hand is an opportunity, every player is a friend, every and every episode is a winning experience. Elle and I are back around the
- [01:00]
Host 1 (Female)
poker table with our buddy, Joe Mackin. We I got two Joes today, so if I get confused, Joe Squid. There we are. Joe Mackin from Sequan. How are you?
- [01:11]
Joe Mackin
I'm well, how are you?
- [01:13]
Host 1 (Female)
We're good. It's Friday. Listen, we just got a special delivery. I have to throw this out before we jump into Saquon. It looks small, but it's mighty. A magnet from the WSOP, a throwback to 1976. A friend of ours just dropped this off. He just happened to be in Vegas and was like, I wanted to get you something small from the store, which is super fun that they have like a storefront. So I want to give Chris a shout out and say thank you for bringing that by. Yeah, that was really nice. Go on the fridge.
- [01:43]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah, exactly.
- [01:43]
Host 1 (Female)
Soon. But Joe, you're out in San Diego. You're the poker room manager for Saquon, and we are beyond thrilled that we're going to be joining you in October for the SoCal Classic. But also just that we're glad you're here. Tell us a little bit about who you are, if people haven't met you.
- [02:02]
Joe Mackin
So I've been managing the poker room for about two years now. Beyond poker. I like to garden, I like to golf. But primarily I like to build, promote poker promotions. Really?
- [02:16]
Host 1 (Female)
Yeah, I can tell. I like social media. I follow you, Joe, on social media and you are always promoting something new. And I'm always like, to my Joe, hey, look at what they're doing. They're doing this cool thing. That's how I found out about the Tumblrs you guys were giving away 4th of July that's how I find out about what's going on Friday nights. That's how I find out about. More details up and coming. You do a great job of promoting your room.
- [02:40]
Host 2 (Male)
She's also like, look at the chickens.
- [02:43]
Host 1 (Female)
Oh yeah, your chickens. And that turkey that came to your, your homesteading, gardening. You do have a garden that attracts the animals.
- [02:52]
Joe Mackin
I do. So, yes. At my place we have honeybees, we have chickens, we have fruit trees, vegetables, whatever. But also, like you said, the wild turkeys. Now, in Southern California, it's not uncommon to have wild turkeys walking around my property. We can get what, 1 to 20. But even here on property at Sequon Casino Resort, we have wild turkeys as well. So when you come here in October, you will see them, they just roam, just roam around.
- [03:21]
Host 1 (Female)
Do they make the sound, the turkey sounds?
- [03:24]
Joe Mackin
Oh, yeah, we definitely put that in.
- [03:26]
Host 1 (Female)
Like, do you hear that? Do you hear that?
- [03:29]
Joe Mackin
Yes.
- [03:30]
Host 1 (Female)
I am so glad you told me because I would have thought that was a joke being played on me of like some random sound. I'm going to be by the pool, relaxing before the tournament. Hear that? And sit straight up, up and spit my drink out probably. Like, where? Okay. Thank you for telling. Okay, thank you. Wildlife. Noted. Super. Appreciate it. Tell us more about your, your resort because I know summertime right now it's like in full swing. You've got an amazing pool. Just a golf course. Like, what else? What's going on there?
- [04:00]
Joe Mackin
I mean, the retreat pool and cabanas. I mean, they're hosting weekly pool parties.
- [04:05]
Host 1 (Female)
Nice.
- [04:06]
Joe Mackin
We have country concerts, which is the only one in San Diego. It's called the River.
- [04:10]
Host 1 (Female)
Okay.
- [04:11]
Joe Mackin
Next week they're going to be offering an upbeat Latino music poolside. It's going to be called El Rio.
- [04:16]
Host 1 (Female)
Nice.
- [04:18]
Joe Mackin
Yeah. And then on the weekend are actually on Industry Mondays, ditch Fridays, and then we have Reggae Sundays.
- [04:24]
Host 1 (Female)
Okay.
- [04:26]
Joe Mackin
So it's always something going on here.
- [04:28]
Host 1 (Female)
I love it. I love it. And also there's a 12 story luxury hotel.
- [04:33]
Joe Mackin
Yes. Yeah. So that's obviously awesome when people stay here. But also the spa ritual, kind of just relax, unwind, all that.
- [04:41]
Host 1 (Female)
Yeah. Catch me there. For sure. Yeah, I, I am. We went on a cruise in June. We're getting ready to go on a cruise in August. I feel like spa prices on a cruise are a little outrageous. And I never feel, I'm never sure. Like, what am I getting? Am I gonna get somebody who's new? Am I gonna get somebody who just got on as a contract? And I feel like when you go to these you know, when you get. Get to spa ritual, it's like consistent people. You know who to ask for, you know, the services you're going to get, and you're going to get what you pay for. So I definitely am looking forward to doing that. We have not stepped foot in your poker room yet, but we've seen beautiful images. Tell us about your room. I mean, you're three years running SoCal's best poker room. So there's gotta be a reason why players vote on that.
- [05:26]
Joe Mackin
Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. So the players actually vote on it. But based on our feedback that we had from the players, we talked about renovating the Poke Room, which is coming up almost about a year now. So obviously we got new chairs, we got tableside dining, little tables and drink tables. We up. The room was actually darker, so we actually lighten it up. More TVs now just for. We do all the sporting events in the Poke Room. We added sound to that as well. So obviously, you know, it's cool to watch it, but now actually to hear it as well, that's. That's a little bit of a plus.
- [06:01]
Host 1 (Female)
Yeah.
- [06:01]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah. It sounds like you took some of the players feedback and put that into how you redid the room, right?
- [06:08]
Joe Mackin
Correct. Yes. And then the desk was at the back of the room, but we moved up to the front just to be more inviting. Because poker comes off sometimes as intimidating, you know, to people that just don't know. So it's nice when you walk in, you see a familiar face or someone just to greet you right away. So it's been helpful.
- [06:25]
Host 1 (Female)
Agreed. That's one thing I actually look for.
- [06:28]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah, that's true.
- [06:29]
Host 1 (Female)
We jokes with me. I can't always get the table I want. I do scout my dealers when I play blackjack, because you can just pick what table you want to sit down at table games. But that is actually something really important that when I walk into a room, I'm looking to see who's going to greet me. How are they going to explain what's going on? Are they frazzled? Are they not frazzled? You know, all the things, like they can lead me in the right direction. People who tell me where the bathrooms are. My friend, thank you for telling me where to go. I don't have to come and ask you. The table service. I'm really glad to hear that you've got some table service. And especially those. Those rolling carts or tables that have cup holders. Gotta have them, right?
- [07:11]
Joe Mackin
Yes.
- [07:11]
Host 1 (Female)
I mean, you just. You just gotta have them. So what are Some of your promotions that you're running this month, we'll get to October, but this month you've got some pretty amazing stuff. I want to be there on Fridays for sure.
- [07:24]
Elliot Schechter
Yeah.
- [07:25]
Joe Mackin
So High Hand extravaganza is kicked off really well. We do give away 7,000 every night already. So for instance, we'll give away 200 for no limit, 100 for limit, and then 50 for Omaha. And then we'll sprinkle in, like, okay, this hour we're doing 500 for no limit, 200 for limit, 100 for Omaha. And then the last half hour, we'll do a thousand dollars for a no limit high hand, 400 for limit, and then 100 for Omaha. So we just make it like a roller coaster. But it's fun.
- [07:57]
Elliot Schechter
And honestly, it.
- [07:58]
Joe Mackin
The numbers show the people are here. It's great.
- [08:01]
Host 1 (Female)
Yeah, I would be. I'd be staying in the last half hour for sure.
- [08:07]
Host 2 (Male)
I. I want to know because you guys have the. The Drive Me Wild promotion. Do you actually have that. That can AM Commander? Do you have that there for people to be able to see it in the casino?
- [08:24]
Joe Mackin
No. We talked about bringing it in, but it was like, oh, it's. It's pretty good sized vehicles. No, we're good, but no, you've seen it. Oh, yes.
- [08:35]
Host 2 (Male)
I. I want that so bad. I know that I'm gonna miss that promotion, but I am.
- [08:39]
Host 1 (Female)
That's actually one of the things that we're. That we're, like, bummed. Not bummed, but, like, excited for people who are playing in your room in August. But also like, whoa, that would be a nice little.
- [08:50]
Host 2 (Male)
I don't even have a place to drive it. I just want it.
- [08:52]
Host 1 (Female)
Oh, no, you do. We can drive it around the neighborhood. No shame. In my game. I'm gonna roll down to the barbecue place in that if I have it. Absolutely. We're putting the brand new puppy in the back and going for a ride. I don't care where you live. One of those side by sides is pretty amazing. So in order to enter. Walk me through. How can somebody actually win that side by side?
- [09:15]
Joe Mackin
So you're just playing in the poke room. So for every 15 minutes, you're earning entries just by playing in the poker room. And then obviously, when we have our drawing days, we'll draw based upon, you know, all the entries from in a virtual barrel. And then when you get called, you're into the drawings. And then at the end of the night, we'll draw 10 people. Nine of them will win cash, and then someone will Win the big prize.
- [09:37]
Host 2 (Male)
Oh, my gosh, that's so awesome.
- [09:38]
Joe Mackin
I love it.
- [09:40]
Host 2 (Male)
Okay, fast forward now a little bit because we've got, we've got October coming. We're going to be there. The SoCal Classic is the 16th through the 25th.
- [09:50]
Host 1 (Female)
It's going to be your biggest tournament yet.
- [09:53]
Host 2 (Male)
I know. I'm looking forward to seeing a lot of the people there, but what can they expect when they come in and sign up for this tournament?
- [10:04]
Host 1 (Female)
Yeah, we've already got folks from the eight. We call our listeners the A team. And so we've been mentioning that we're coming in October. So we've gotten emails, we've gotten phone calls, we've got questions on the Patreon game. Like, okay, when are the dates? When are the dates? And we said we can finally tell them it's the 16th through the 25th. But then also they're asking us questions about, like, what do we expect? What's happening?
- [10:26]
Joe Mackin
So here's the crazy part. So we'll be having a VIP tournament on the 13th. Alrighty. So it's a 200 buying. We're playing for our Rolex.
- [10:34]
Host 1 (Female)
Oh, cool.
- [10:35]
Host 2 (Male)
Oh, wow.
- [10:36]
Host 1 (Female)
Beforehand, correct.
- [10:38]
Joe Mackin
Okay, so the part about it is that just without buying alone though, you're going to get a free entry into one of our satellites for the 14th, 15th or 16th into the SoCal classic.
- [10:48]
Host 1 (Female)
Okay.
- [10:49]
Joe Mackin
So that right there will just kind of like jump start us into the start of the SoCal classic. So that's kind of exciting knowing that we're going to have that many bodies already putting into the tournament as well. And then obviously we'll have the, the day ones coming up for that week and then the following week and then finish off on that Sunday.
- [11:07]
Host 1 (Female)
Okay. And then there's $100,000 that you guys are giving away during this time period, right?
- [11:12]
Joe Mackin
Yes, we're going to guarantee 100,000.
- [11:14]
Host 1 (Female)
Fantastic.
- [11:15]
Host 2 (Male)
And then when they come in, obviously we talked a little bit beforehand. The weather's a little crazy right now. But in October, in October it's going to be some beautiful weather, right?
- [11:28]
Joe Mackin
I believe so. It's always beautiful.
- [11:30]
Host 2 (Male)
Can you guarantee that for us, please?
- [11:31]
Joe Mackin
I wish I could, you know, but like I said, right now we're in the 90s, which it's, it's warm, it's hot. Right. But like I said, we're normally around the 73 to 85 and that's where it's at.
- [11:46]
Host 1 (Female)
What kind of food can they find on property? I've heard some. You guys have a great variety. Any favorite stick out or do you have lots of different options?
- [11:56]
Joe Mackin
So we do have seven venues on property. We have, like, the Bullen Bourbon Steakhouse, Pink Buddha. My favorite, though, is Viewpoint. They have a strawberry chicken salad there. Well, I add the chicken to it. It's amazing. It's the go to. That's my go to. Okay.
- [12:15]
Host 1 (Female)
Okay. Awesome. Love it. And then any tourism stuff that people should be making plans for that, that you recommend, I know that's out of the Saquon property, but anything that you, as a San Diego native or person living there would say you got to do these things.
- [12:30]
Joe Mackin
So Seaport Village, Balboa Park, Old town. I mean, SeaWorld, the zoo. There's so much out here. It's. It's crazy. Like, Like I just came back from a week off and you could really find yourself lost if. If that's what you're looking to do. I mean, you could be a new person in your own city because there's so much to do out here.
- [12:51]
Host 1 (Female)
Yeah.
- [12:51]
Host 2 (Male)
Oh, I wonder if the Padres are going to be in town so in
- [12:56]
Joe Mackin
October, if it's a postseason run. Yes, that's true.
- [13:00]
Host 2 (Male)
That's true.
- [13:00]
Joe Mackin
But if not, then it's going to be, you know, SDFC Football Club, and then it's going to be NFL time.
- [13:09]
Patrick
Okay.
- [13:11]
Host 2 (Male)
For all of our sports enthusiasts, we'll hope for a. A playoff run for San Diego for the Padres.
- [13:19]
Host 1 (Female)
I'm down. I'm always up for a live game. Well, another thing that I want to talk about, too, on your, on your property is Club Sequan, because what I've been hearing also is signing up for that membership. There's like insane cash back in San Diego. And then in general, it just. You can rack up points on points, and there's, there's lots of promotions with that, too.
- [13:42]
Joe Mackin
Yeah. Cashback giveaways. You can use those for dining credits. You could do that. Like I said, cashing out points, even for the poker room. We get a dollar an hour for playing in the poker room.
- [13:52]
Host 1 (Female)
Awesome. That's huge. Huge, huge. Thank you to your players.
- [13:58]
Joe Mackin
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Definitely a great way just to give back to the players, so. Absolutely.
- [14:04]
Host 1 (Female)
Yeah.
- [14:04]
Host 2 (Male)
I know we talked about this when we were talking about the card before, but so many rooms, when they have the players card, it's almost like the poker room gets ignored. But that's not the case with you guys, so I respect that. That's awesome.
- [14:23]
Host 1 (Female)
Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Huge. Thank you to you guys. All right, let's talk. We've talked about sort of what promotions you've had this month. What we can look forward to in October, your property, things to do around. Another thing that Joe and I is near and dear to our heart. We here at Antioch like to call it Bet on better. But what types of community initiatives have you found that you've been able to do as someone working at Saquon?
- [14:50]
Joe Mackin
So this year I was able to go to the Ms. Walk, which Saquon was a big sponsor in that event. And the turnout was amazing. It really was. And it was just cool just to be a part of that. You know, a lot of people are fighting that battle, but it was just good to be out there to support.
- [15:10]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah.
- [15:10]
Host 1 (Female)
Any way you can get reconnected with your community and give back is awesome. And we're so glad to hear that your property is doing that as well. So many great initiatives and also just local stuff, too. Anytime that. That we're able to pitch in and help or be a part of our community, that's important to us. So we wanted to be able to highlight and spotlight that. Yeah, guys.
- [15:30]
Host 2 (Male)
And I think it just, it feels good to work for a company that is willing to do those things, willing to give back to the community and help those in need as well. So kudos to Sequan as a whole and you for taking the initiative to be involved in those things, too.
- [15:50]
Host 1 (Female)
That's also another thing that you can think about because, of course, we'd love to have you back on before October if there's anything going on that we can be a part of in October or poker players can contribute to. Because we know there are some poker rooms around the country, different times a year, they offer initiatives like toys for tots, like bring in a toy and you get, you know, X, Y and Z at the table or whatever. So if there's something coming up in October, please do let us know. And we'll let folks know that that's something they can participate in because we certainly would like to support those initiatives.
- [16:21]
Host 2 (Male)
For sure.
- [16:23]
Host 1 (Female)
For sure. I got to talk about Patreon. I'm really glad that you're here, Joe, but I just had a moment last night that I'm really proud of. And before we say congratulations to anybody, I'm gonna say, Patty, I had a fun time playing last night. And I also have a side bet, which I know people are not supposed to be doing, but I do have a side bet going with another Patreon player. Yeah, we get to see them like once a year. And so Ben mention I whoever is on the top of the Leaderboard has to buy the first round of drinks. I just cut his lead in half last night. I did. I did it.
- [17:06]
Host 2 (Male)
You did.
- [17:06]
Host 1 (Female)
I came in.
- [17:07]
Host 2 (Male)
You played so well. I was the third one out, so we won't even talk about my effort. It was terrible. Yeah, but. But you played very, very well.
- [17:17]
Host 1 (Female)
Stupid shirt you had on.
- [17:18]
Host 2 (Male)
It was. That'll never be worn. If it takes.
- [17:21]
Host 1 (Female)
He bought this shirt off of Amazon thinking it was going to be really cute. It's this mon playing poker and he's wearing it all the poker table. I think it's cursed.
- [17:29]
Host 2 (Male)
It's. It's definitely not the shirt, but I'm never wearing it again.
- [17:37]
Host 1 (Female)
Do you. You ever just. When you have a good session, Joe, like, you just feel good even for the next day or two?
- [17:44]
Joe Mackin
100%.
- [17:45]
Host 1 (Female)
Yes. Yeah.
- [17:46]
Joe Mackin
I'm still bloating off the win I had in October, so.
- [17:49]
Host 2 (Male)
Yes. Yeah.
- [17:52]
Host 1 (Female)
Yeah. So please forgive me for my excitement, but Patreon game was super fun. I actually had a late reg. We have a puppy. He takes up a lot of time. I think I left the discord like 17 times last night because I'm chasing after this dog while I'm running around with my tablet playing. Playing our game. But it was fun.
- [18:11]
Host 2 (Male)
You know who's probably on cloud nine as well is John Butler.
- [18:16]
Host 1 (Female)
Oh, my God. John Butler does not want the cash. He just wants a hooded sweatshirt. He's been trying to win a tournament for a. Yeah. And he finally did it last night. So way to go, man. We're super excited. You were also very cruel. He seriously messages John and says, oh, I'm so sorry to tell you we're out of hoodies in the shop.
- [18:38]
Host 2 (Male)
It's always been one.
- [18:40]
Host 1 (Female)
All he wants is a hoodie. And you.
- [18:42]
Host 2 (Male)
He was like, of course. And.
- [18:44]
Host 1 (Female)
And he said, I'm just kidding. And he was like, you're an asshole. And you are. That was an asshole move. However. Yeah. John Butler, way to go. Our bounty was not there because Travel. Patrick.
- [18:58]
Host 2 (Male)
I was gonna say Patrick. And. And they came at you at Discord, just so you know. Patrick.
- [19:04]
Host 1 (Female)
Yeah. So Patrick is our resident fish. He won a tournament last month. He didn't show up as the bounty this month. So I will give him this, though. He's gonna pay his own bounty himself next month. So there'll be two bounties next month. So who was the bounty last night? Because Patrick didn't show up. Mortis was, who also took second place.
- [19:23]
Host 2 (Male)
He took second again.
- [19:25]
Host 1 (Female)
Right.
- [19:25]
Host 2 (Male)
So back to back, second places for him. Great job. Played really well.
- [19:31]
Host 1 (Female)
We had fun.
- [19:32]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah.
- [19:33]
Host 1 (Female)
My phone died during the night, so I didn't get to chat with everybody, but. But it's what it is, you know?
- [19:40]
Host 2 (Male)
John definitely deserves.
- [19:42]
Host 1 (Female)
Oh, my gosh.
- [19:43]
Host 2 (Male)
Deserves it. He has. He's come so close so many times. He final tables a lot.
- [19:49]
Host 1 (Female)
Yeah.
- [19:49]
Host 2 (Male)
Just hasn't been able to get over that, that little.
- [19:52]
Host 1 (Female)
And here's the one thing I love about John. And of course, we all have our poker communities, right. Online games or home games. John is the player who. He's in sales. He travels probably 80% of the year. And on these Thursday nights, it doesn't matter where he is, what he's doing. He, like, stops his workouts. He, like, plans. It sounds like he plans his business dinners around these. Like, he's there and consistently grinding. And I just am so happy for him because he'll just show up and we're like, where are you this week? He's like, I don't even know. I'm like, I'm. I'm in Georgia or I'm in Florida or I'm somewhere.
- [20:31]
Host 2 (Male)
Right.
- [20:32]
Host 1 (Female)
So super excited for him. Let's talk other poker adjacent. Tda. Have you heard any of this tech stuff, Joe, what have you.
- [20:43]
Host 2 (Male)
Joe was at the tda.
- [20:44]
Host 1 (Female)
Tell us, please, first and fore. Like firsthand.
- [20:49]
Joe Mackin
Yeah. So one of the major topics was obviously tech. Right. Cameras, metaglasses, rings, chips that have cameras. So it's just trying to be ahead of what's happening, what's going on. This is something that's not going to stop. This is something that we're just trying to be proactive to see. Like, how could we coexist?
- [21:11]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah, I really like that term, Coexist.
- [21:15]
Host 1 (Female)
Yes. Because there is a philosophy of we're going to put the kibosh on it. And then there's the other philosophy, which is a growth mindset of we're going to grow with and coexist with what's happening, because players are going to have their phones, they're going to have meta glasses, they're gonna have X, Y and Z. I don't necessarily think they need to have a camera in their card protector, but it happens. So we need to be aware of it. Right. It's. That's like raising kids. You gotta know what they're doing when it's happening because it's a possibility. And so I think protecting the integrity of the game at all times, the best that we can, is important. And I really do love the leadership of TDA considering and coexisting. So I'm so glad to hear that.
- [22:00]
Host 2 (Male)
And one of the ways that they're going to try and do this is with training dealers to do this slide
- [22:06]
Host 1 (Female)
pitch which we talked about.
- [22:07]
Host 2 (Male)
We've talked about.
- [22:08]
Host 1 (Female)
We've talked about this many times. I know. And we know card rooms are out there discussing. Is this something we need to get ahead of the game as well? Because let's say there is a camera across from the dealer, you know, in seat four or five anywhere. Doesn't matter. Anywhere really. As they're pitching. It could pick up.
- [22:27]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah.
- [22:28]
Host 1 (Female)
What they're seeing. So the slide pitch may be the future.
- [22:31]
Host 2 (Male)
I mean that's the primary way it's pitched, I think in England, Europe. Yeah. So it's not that hard of a transition.
- [22:42]
Host 1 (Female)
Yeah. Are your any of your folks chatting about that or practicing slide pitches yet? Just out of curiosity. Not to play on the spot?
- [22:49]
Joe Mackin
Yeah, no, no, we talked about it. Just to. Trying to see is this something we could do. You know what's going to be like to train people up. You know that we have a lot of people who are long term team members that have only pitch. So to go to this would be a huge learning curve to, to do it that way. So again, it's just, we're never saying no. It's just a matter of like, is this possible? Is this something that's going to come off good and you know, work for us?
- [23:12]
Host 1 (Female)
Yeah, exactly. I also think it's going to throw players off at first. It's a, it's something, it's something that you're used to. It's like an action, a repetitive action that you're just used to seeing and then that's going to change to this. We'll get over it. I'm just telling you. It's like one of those things where in the beginning you're gonna be like, that's different.
- [23:32]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah.
- [23:32]
Host 1 (Female)
Right. But easy to get. And, and again, I'm all for it if it, if it protects the integrity of the game.
- [23:37]
Host 2 (Male)
That's what I was gonna say is, is it's a small thing to, to have to deal with, um, just seeing something differently to protect the game itself.
- [23:48]
Host 1 (Female)
But yeah, speaking of things possibly changing, something that has already changed and we've been waiting.
- [23:54]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah.
- [23:55]
Host 1 (Female)
Pins and Needles Poker palace is back. It's open kind of. Yeah, it is no long. They no longer have a poker room which if you're listening and you used to work in the poke room, please reach out. We want to know where you are. We want to know how we can support you. We want to Know what's happening in your life, because we only had your Poker palace emails and however they are reopened, so that's great for their patrons. It's names.
- [24:22]
Host 2 (Male)
Club Fortune, Club Fortune. So if you're looking for Club Fortune north, because there is a Club Fortune in Henderson.
- [24:29]
Host 1 (Female)
Okay.
- [24:30]
Host 2 (Male)
And so this one is Club Fortune North. They do have a. From what I understand, they have a really nice sports book, but no poker.
- [24:40]
Host 1 (Female)
Have you ever been there?
- [24:41]
Joe Mackin
I have not, no.
- [24:42]
Host 1 (Female)
Okay.
- [24:43]
Host 2 (Male)
When we went way out, way out.
- [24:45]
Host 1 (Female)
It's super far. Like, the Uber driver looked at us
- [24:49]
Host 2 (Male)
like, are you sure?
- [24:51]
Host 1 (Female)
You sure this is where you want to go? Because you're already here on the Strip and there's lots to do. Like, you don't want to go downtown. And we're like, no, we. We're going to check it out. We're going to see what's going on. Right. It is definitely its own vibe. It's in its own area of town. I. I'm curious and I want to go back and see what they saved and what they changed. Because I felt like I walked back into a 1970s movie and I was like, this could be cool.
- [25:18]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah.
- [25:19]
Host 1 (Female)
Like, I could totally see an entire, like a. Like, let's bring it up to date, to code, whatever. But let's also keep the retro vibes because it has its own feel and its own appeal to it.
- [25:31]
Host 2 (Male)
Right.
- [25:32]
Host 1 (Female)
So I think I'm curious to see, how was it called Fortune Club.
- [25:36]
Host 2 (Male)
Club Fortune, Club Fortune,
- [25:40]
Host 1 (Female)
what it looks
- [25:41]
Host 2 (Male)
like and to that same point, things that have changed. But this is kind of like back to the future, so it's. It's changed back to where it was with the WSOP on espn.
- [25:54]
Host 1 (Female)
Oh, yeah.
- [25:56]
Host 2 (Male)
They've done a great of their coverage and digging deep into those backstories of the players, and I love that. Have you had a chance to catch any of it on espn, Joe?
- [26:10]
Joe Mackin
No, not yet. But I love the idea that it's back on espn, though.
- [26:13]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah.
- [26:14]
Host 1 (Female)
Yeah. You do have to have a subscription, so you're going to have to have the app or a way to be able to access espn, whether it's through your Internet provider or your cable provider.
- [26:23]
Host 2 (Male)
Yes.
- [26:24]
Host 1 (Female)
That is the only thing that we're kind of like a little bummed about, but we also understand because that's the way of the world right now. One of our buddies on Patreon is like, it is a time suck because it's so exciting. Like, it's almost like it was when TikTok came out or something where you're just like, I Want to keep watching this and not do anything else. So it is nice that it's out and available because more people are accessing it, more people are getting excited about the game. I think it's just a really, really awesome opportunity for the game.
- [26:55]
Host 2 (Male)
I agree. And one other thing that I want to make sure I mentioned because I think this is great for the game too.
- [27:00]
Host 1 (Female)
Yeah.
- [27:01]
Host 2 (Male)
Is Nick Schulman. He got a show. SiriusXM had reached out to him and wanted him to do a poker show for six weeks on Sirius XM on the Mad Dog sports channel on SiriusXM. And last week was week one. So I think, I think it's released every Monday. So this coming up Monday will be the next one.
- [27:27]
Host 1 (Female)
Okay.
- [27:27]
Host 2 (Male)
I think that's right. I'm not 100 sure on that. But. But once a week he does the show. I think that is huge for this game to kind of bring it into the mainstream as well.
- [27:38]
Host 1 (Female)
Yeah.
- [27:39]
Host 2 (Male)
I have not had a chance to listen to it but. But I'm super excited that it's even a thing and maybe opens doors for more and more.
- [27:47]
Host 1 (Female)
Yeah. We do have a Series XM membership.
- [27:49]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah. Yeah. So I definitely want to check it out. And other than that, we have some fun music to go listen to tonight.
- [27:59]
Host 1 (Female)
Yeah. Have you ever heard of the Yachtly Crew, Joe?
- [28:02]
Joe Mackin
Oh, yeah. Love them.
- [28:04]
Host 2 (Male)
They're the best.
- [28:05]
Host 1 (Female)
Okay. I'm so glad to hear that. I don't know if they made it out to San Diego or if you just made it to a show. This is the only thing that my mom, who we lovingly call Big Mama, who's not a big person at all. So that's just her personality. She's big personality. Big Mama. This is the only thing she wanted for Christmas and it has arrived in July. So we're doing Christmas in July.
- [28:25]
Host 2 (Male)
Yep.
- [28:26]
Host 1 (Female)
At the Yachtley Crue concert tonight. So you're gonna have to deal with the two big personalities at a fun event tonight.
- [28:33]
Host 2 (Male)
That's. I can handle it. I can handle it. I can handle you. I can handle your mom.
- [28:38]
Joe Mackin
Be all right.
- [28:38]
Grainger Announcer
Whoa.
- [28:40]
Host 1 (Female)
Challenge accepted is what I hear. Joe, we hope you're gonna have a fantastic weekend. We look forward to hearing results if you're able and allowed to share with us who won that side by side. If you wanna share any other things, poker updates, we would love to to include that in our shout outs as well. We're so glad you could join us. We just can't wait to be there in person. And thank you for all you're doing for the poker Community and for the game out west. We really appreciate it.
- [29:07]
Joe Mackin
No, thank you for having me on, though.
- [29:09]
Host 1 (Female)
Yeah, you're welcome. As always, It's a pleasure being around the table with you guys.
- [29:14]
Host 2 (Male)
Likewise.
- [29:18]
Patrick
Wisdom cuts like a blade, dropping true bombs with a poker parade. Big blinds, big stakes. Race it up late.
- [29:30]
Host 2 (Male)
Make no mistake, Elliot Schechter joins us each week to say how he would ruin situations that come up in your games. Annie's with us again this week. Elliot, how's it going?
- [29:41]
Elliot Schechter
Things are going pretty nicely. The heat wave broke. It's a. It's 80 degrees today. It's perfect.
- [29:50]
Host 2 (Male)
Well, I can't wait. You know, August, we get to come down that way for the cruise.
- [29:55]
Elliot Schechter
Yeah.
- [29:56]
Host 2 (Male)
And then, you know, obviously then we head off into cooler weather in Alaska. But then October, we get to swing just a little bit more adjacent over to Saquon in San Diego.
- [30:13]
Elliot Schechter
Nice, beautiful casino and an excellent city
- [30:17]
Host 2 (Male)
from what I understand. The weather there is perfect all year
- [30:20]
Elliot Schechter
round, so 74 degrees every day.
- [30:26]
Host 2 (Male)
I'm looking forward to that, too. But in the meantime, we do have a call. The floor. This is sent in by Mark Mooney,
- [30:36]
Patrick
and
- [30:39]
Host 2 (Male)
mark is playing 13 at his local room. Says, I'm on the turn, heads up. It checks to me, and I decide to bet a hundred dollars. I've got a stack of red in the front that I start pushing forward. As it's moving forward, I can see it's a little short, so right then I say out loud, 100. Turns out the stack I pushed was only $85, so I'm reaching for the $15 more to complete the amount I already announced. The dealer stops me and says, it's a string bet. The chips that went forward stand and I'm locked at 85. I tried to explain I verbalized 100 as I was pushing, so the verbal should govern. The villain jumps in and calls the floor. So I guess his the opponent there calls the floor, floor, comes over, hears it out, and backs the dealer. His reasoning is because I pushed the stack forward first and only announced the amount after I realized it was short, he's treating it exactly like a string bet. He says a player could push a short stack for forward to get a read off of the opponent's reaction, then announce a bigger number to angle. So the forward chips stand and I'm stuck at 85. He says, here's my issue with the ruling. My verbal 100 came out basically simultaneously with the push. Isn't a verbal declaration supposed to be binding and override the chips? Or is the floor. Right, that pushing first and announcing a split second later is functionally the same as stringing a bet and opens the door to angling.
- [32:36]
Elliot Schechter
Well, this is a pretty unusual one. Yeah, I'm wondering what kind of expert player the villain is because, because of $15 drastically affecting the various odds in the hand. So I mean, wow, it must have been right down to the, the fourth or fifth decimal point as far as the calculation was concerned. I mean, wow, that's a truly expert player. My hat's off to the villain. I suppose what I catch most glaringly is the floor's reasoning and then explanation of a string bet. Reasons the strange one here. The explanation is perfect and that is the exact definition of a string bet. It's not betting twice. That's two actions. You only get one action per turn. An actual string bed is when you're stringing your opponent along to gauge reaction and then popping an alternate wager on them. So as explained here, yes, you're pushing out some chips, you're waiting, you're trying to do it as slow as possible to, to see the reaction of player or players behind you. And then when you finally get some information, then you announce a larger amount. That is the classic string bet, and that's how it was explained. But then the reasoning he gave for making the decision was, oh, you realize you put out the wrong amount and you wanted to make a slightly higher amount which you thought you had in your stack, but I'm not going to let you do that because it might be a string bet. Well, to hear him say that, it sounds like, well, it was an honest mistake, you should put the extra 15 in. And Howie hears often to know you can only bet the 85 is faulty reasoning in my humble opinion, or not so humble the way it's described, especially as you're pushing the stack and you're not if you're not gauging reaction. If you're literally just concentrating on moving the stack and you're very quickly realizing that it's not a full stack and they oh, 100 as a floor. How are you supposed to rule against the 100 bed considering that it's only marginally above the stack that was pushed out and it's not unreasonable to think that somebody grabbed a stack that was a whole stack. So you're not trying to to make the letter of the law outweigh any actual intent of both law and the intent of the player. And in this very individual case, where the difference between the the stated bet and the actual amount of Chips in their hand as they were mentioning the bet was marginal at best. It'd be one thing if he grabbed the stack of 25 and, and after a, a pulse beater 2 then gave an amount that would be a string bet. This was not that case. I can't make a case that somebody was trying to string for an extra $15. I mean, now you're, you're putting a level of expertise on the hero that we were just describing to the villain that, whoa, this $15 will really change the odds on my opponent and cause his call to be just awful. Or it might. Or if he was willing to call 85, but I know he's a good enough player to fold for 100. And now we're talking about a presidential style 44D chess, which is both fictional in real life and in this particular poker case. Yeah, I, the way it's described with the hero, little Mark here moving the chips out and then realizing on the way to the pot that, oh, wait a minute, this isn't a full stack. I meant to bend a hundred, a full stack of chips. Sometimes you just gotta believe the information in front of you and take things as they are and make a reasonable decision and it's not unreasonable to let him bet the whole hundred here. So, yeah, I don't agree with the, the floor's decision and I appreciate the dealer speaking up. Dealers in rooms where they're supposed to call string bets should be speaking up because protecting the players and, and being the first level of enforcement of standard rules is fine. There are plenty of rooms that don't want dealers calling string bets in any way, shape or form, and that's fine too. It's all based on house rule and custom, I guess. But if it's a room where the dealers are supposed to speak up, the dealer did the job. And I appreciate that. The dealer seemed a little too militant here for my taste. And again, I mean, I don't remember seeing a case where somebody put almost a full stack and tried to correct it to a full stack and it was turned down. Generally they'll put in some chips and then realize they didn't state an amount and then try to bet three times the amount. That's much more common. I, I still can't find a path from a guy moving 85 basically incomplete stack forward to not allowing him to just bet a complete stack of chips, which was only three chips more. I just, I can't find the path from, from A to B. It's just too reasonable to let them bet the whole hundred here.
- [38:08]
Host 2 (Male)
Right. The only way I could see it, and I'm not saying that this is the way this went, but the only way that I really could see it is if it went to the middle. And then he realizes, oh, I meant to bet a hundred, and then states it and goes back.
- [38:31]
Elliot Schechter
Right? Yeah. Once you move the chips all the way forward.
- [38:35]
Host 2 (Male)
Definitely not the way he describes it.
- [38:37]
Elliot Schechter
Yes. Yeah, he describes it as he's moving the chips on the way. Realizes it's not a full stack. The way you describe it is the classic string bit where you've got your chips all the way out, you've probably released them or you haven't released them, but you're literally just waiting. Even if it's just 1001. One second, one Mississippi. That's a string bet. This is not described as that. I'm going to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. I'm going to say Mark's being an honest broker here and there's no reason not to. Yeah, this. This doesn't really seem like a string bet.
- [39:14]
Host 2 (Male)
Do you think that when a floor comes over, their first inclination is to back the dealer? And like, in a case like this, one would hope.
- [39:31]
Elliot Schechter
I mean, you don't want to put your dealers in a spot where they're hung out to dry all the time. And you certainly want your dealers enforcing rules consistently. Want your floors enforcing rules more consistently. You would hope they'd want to back up the dealers.
- [39:48]
Joe Mackin
But
- [39:51]
Elliot Schechter
making a bad ruling to help the dealer save face, I hope is not happening a whole lot, if ever. It doesn't mean it doesn't. It probably does happen. I'm not inclined to do that. I'm inclined to enforce the rules the way they're. They're meant to be enforced. And as stated previously and. And just now, I'm. I'm absolutely of the mind that the. The intent of a rule is much more important than the actual black and white letter of the rule. The objects to get to a fair and reasonable outcome that benefits all the players and the game. I'm not big on technicalities. This isn't a court of law. But to that end, I'm not in favor of backing up the dealer just to make. Make it look better for the dealer. I mean, that just. That doesn't look good for anybody either. And is it a possibility? Yes, absolutely, it's a possibility. It's probably a good possibility and a pretty accurate description of what occurred.
- [41:00]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah. Yeah. If I go back to his opponent being the one that calls the floor as well. I wonder if. If he calls the floor in that situation, really just to make sure that it's done right so that there's not a question after the hand is over. Because it's really. It's really odd that he was so, so quick to call the floor over when the dealer's like string. But no, it's not floor.
- [41:41]
Elliot Schechter
The. The possibilities that immediately occur to me are that. That this was the kind of thing that was called on the villain previously and wants to make sure that it's enforced the exact same way against anybody else, whether it's good for the game or not. 2. I mean, maybe he really didn't want to call off an extra 15 and. And was gonna jump on the opportunity to make it look like what the dealer did was correct and get the floor involved to make sure that they could solidify and bake in the ruling. Those are the first two. The second. I mean, the third possibility would be that the. The villain was just trying to be
- [42:21]
Joe Mackin
a jerk
- [42:25]
Elliot Schechter
after that. Now you're going to very remote possibilities. Those are the primary ones.
- [42:33]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah.
- [42:35]
Elliot Schechter
Could be that Mark was playing pretty well and. And the villain was trying to disrupt that. Yeah,
- [42:49]
Host 2 (Male)
yeah.
- [42:50]
Elliot Schechter
That goes back to the psychology of the jerk, though, right? Almost every possibility does result in some form of the villain being a jerk here. So.
- [43:04]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I have to say it's, It's. It's unfortunate that, that it. They made him stay at the 85, but at least it wasn't right.
- [43:19]
Elliot Schechter
I mean, apparently there are not enough decision makers, floors, shift managers, etc. Asking the right question or thinking about the right concept when they're going to make a ruling or put a decision down. And the question is not what does the rule say? That's one of the questions that must be asked. That's not the first question. The primary question, the ultimate question is what is the reasonable and fair outcome here and how do I get there? You base it on the. On what the rules say, but sometimes what the rules say may lead you to an unreasonable and unfair outcome. That's not good for anybody. It's not good for the players. It's not good for the game. It's not good for the operator,
- [44:19]
Host 2 (Male)
which is. I mean, I talked to the floor
- [44:22]
Elliot Schechter
who made the decision because I'm still not able to figure out how not allowing an extra $15 on top of 85 is reasonable, especially as described. I mean, if he's still not gauging a reaction, if he's putting the chips out and realizing that it's short as stated by the floor. Then what's so unreasonable about letting the guy bet a complete stack? I, I, I still can't find the answer. So yeah, reasonable and fair is the standard.
- [44:54]
Host 2 (Male)
Right? And what you were talking about with the coming up with so or leading you to the rules, leading you to something that doesn't make a lot of sense in the situation is exactly why there's that caveat in the rules of the floor. Having the ability to use his discretion
- [45:18]
Elliot Schechter
precisely to, to cause a fair and reasonable result. It's a pretty wordy and lengthy clause. It's not just floor man's decision is final, which isn't a lot of rule books in places. But the good rule books further explain that in order to find a, a reasonable outcome and promote fairness for all, some decisions may go against what is the exact letter of the rule. So yeah, I mean, it's hard to divine any ill intent here. Guy moving a stack of chips off of his combined stack and then realizing it's not a full stack, especially at that amount. It's not like he moved 25 and said, oh, I meant to bet a hundred, that's not reasonable. But a guy moving 85. Yeah, he could have thought, yeah, okay, well, shoot. Could have thought it was a full stack. I mean, that's not unreasonable at all. So yeah, the standard is fair and reasonable, not the law says this, therefore I can't let you do that. That once again, we're not in court, we're playing a game.
- [46:40]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah. Mark, this is, this is an interesting one. I guess you described it best. Elliot is unusual. This is an unusual one and I really appreciate you sending that in. I would be really curious, Mark, to see, to know if the villain ended up calling in this hand and if so, how quickly he called.
- [47:10]
Elliot Schechter
Yeah, I mean if after all this they didn't call the bet or didn't raise.
- [47:16]
Host 1 (Female)
Wow.
- [47:17]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah. So send me a follow up on this one, Mark, and let me know how this worked out. But curious as well, but yeah, thanks for sending that in. And if anyone has a call floor that they would like to know how Elliot would rule, send it to podcastygazine.com Elliot, we'll see you next week.
- [47:39]
Elliot Schechter
Absolutely. Look forward to it.
- [47:52]
Host 2 (Male)
Welcome to Hand of the Week where Patrick, our resident fish and I dive into listener submitted hands each week we tackle everything from questionable bluffs to hero calls and the hymns that make you scratch your head. Whether you're looking for strategy tips or you just want to see if we would have played it Any better. We've got you covered. Patrick, how's it going, man?
- [48:12]
Patrick
You know, Joe, I'm pretty good. I'd like to go ahead and address something, if, if I may. We haven't talked baseball on this podcast in, in quite some time, you know, because our teams used to suck. And unfortunately for you, yours still does. However, the team in Boston has decided that they are going to be the land of misfit toys. We are above.500. We are in the wild card as of today. We have two more series with divisional rivals at home the next six games. Life is good.
- [48:52]
Host 2 (Male)
You are getting ahead of yourself in a lot of aspects, but I don't blame you because I would be doing the same thing if I had a glimmer of hope. And I, I have none.
- [49:04]
Patrick
So the light bulb is in there. There is more than a glimmer. Excuse me. And it's fun. I, I feel like I, I have my summer back a little bit because I hadn't opened up I, I, I hadn't opened up the MLB app to watch anything and for, for two months. They're terrible. They were awful. They were horrible. They lost the Colorado Rockies. I was like, just blow it up. It's over, it's done. And then all of a sudden, July hit.
- [49:33]
Host 2 (Male)
I just have been impressed with watching Tampa Bay. They're not supposed to be as good as they are, so I've enjoyed just jumping on their bandwagon for a little bit.
- [49:46]
Patrick
But I don't know that you teed that one up on purpose. But you know, last point here that it's funny you say Tampa Bay because the red so coming out of the All Star break, won four in a row, including a makeup game double header against said good team. So that being said,
- [50:06]
Host 2 (Male)
the words literally just came out of my mouth about they're not supposed to be as good as they are. So I don't know that you need to break your arm patting yourself on the back on that one. But they, they have been playing well. So congratulations. Now back to your regular regularly scheduled programming.
- [50:27]
Patrick
We'll address that one next week. In the meantime, though, in the meantime, we can play some poker.
- [50:33]
Elliot Schechter
Yeah.
- [50:33]
Host 2 (Male)
Because we have a hand of the week and it is sent in by boy CRN Vanilla. It is Ciaran CRN.
- [50:52]
Patrick
Yeah, absolutely.
- [50:54]
Host 2 (Male)
And CRN is playing in a 13 cash game and they say effective stacks are about 325. So I want to talk about effective stacks for a minute because so many times we get these submissions and, and I actually, I forward these emails to Someone else, they put them in a format that I can read and not see ahead what's going on. And they usually check the pot size to make sure that's right. And, and if they don't include the pot size, they'll put that in there. But I always say don't change anything else. So if, if there's a question about something, let me know and I'll reach out to them, but don't change anything else. That said, I get so many of these that say the effective stacks or my effective stack or something like that. So let's talk about that. Patrick, do you know what an effective stack is?
- [52:04]
Patrick
My take on the effective stack is it was, well, let me just take my, my, my take on it and then you tell me if I'm wrong because, you know, I like to be wrong sometimes. So, like, let's say we're playing and I have, I don't know, 2000 and you have 500, the effective stack would be you, correct?
- [52:25]
Host 2 (Male)
Correct. 500 would be the effective stack because
- [52:28]
Patrick
that's all we could play for, right?
- [52:32]
Host 2 (Male)
Correct.
- [52:33]
Patrick
Is that the idea?
- [52:34]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah, because you can't win more chips than I have unless there's no people in the pot. So the effective stack is my chips in that case. So there cannot, there's not going to be effective stacks. Multiple plural, usually. I mean, I guess there's could be somebody that has the same number as me, but more than likely it's going to be one effective stack. That said, we can move on now. That is my PSA for the moment.
- [53:08]
Grainger Announcer
Yes.
- [53:08]
Patrick
And listen, firm from a novice turned novice. Plus I'm not getting in above my. Ahead of myself on this. Terms still come and go. I, you know, look a little peek behind the curtain. There are many, many days, as soon as we're done recording, I'm like, hey, Joe, let's go through a vocabulary lesson real quick. So, yes, that's, Listen, we're all learning, you know, for, for the ones that haven't been playing for years and years. But yeah, you're, you're absolutely right. You know, I do find it interesting. So like, let's just say for, let's play, for example, on this one, let's say there's, you know, you and I and l are playing and you have 500, I have 400 and she has 300. In that instance, the effective stack would be three. Now if there's six people at the table and, you know, it's just, you know, all over the place, the effective stack is what it is. In that hand, if people trying to refer to what maybe, you know, an average might be, you could use it as that. But you can't really say effective stack. Like if the average is 325 is what C. Aaron had said. CRN you know, an average is an average. It's not the effective stack. Correct, correct.
- [54:16]
Host 2 (Male)
The effective stack is the lowest stack, the shortest stack.
- [54:19]
Patrick
Beautiful.
- [54:22]
Host 2 (Male)
All right, now that we, now that we've got that out of the way, we. We're going to be in middle position in this hand. And the under the gun player is an older gentleman who hadn't played many hands. That's always, always a bad sign or a sign of, of we could be in trouble when the older gentleman that hasn't played many hands comes in, but he just limps and it's to us with the ace of spades, queen of spades.
- [54:58]
Patrick
Well, one, I'm glad that we have a very good hand playing in middle position. That's a good start. It's a good start. I'm going to come in pretty decently strong from middle position without any, you know, stragglers are making least pay for it. So I'm probably going to. So you know what? 3, 6, 9. I'm probably going 15.
- [55:28]
Host 2 (Male)
Okay. I don't know that I would say that that's strong. It is exactly what I was going to make it. But I wouldn't say that you're like throwing out some big number.
- [55:41]
Patrick
One wouldn't say it would. Is weak.
- [55:47]
Host 2 (Male)
It is not weak. It is not weak. And we're on the same page as far as the amount. And I'm definitely not just calling. I'm going to raise. I don't want to go too big. This is the reason that I was thinking 15 is because I want to respect the fact that this older gentleman has not played many hands. So I want to raise but also keep my foot kind of close to that break. Crn says I make it $20. Okay. The cutoff and button both call and the limper calls. So we're going to be four handed. 1, 2, 3, 4. The pot is $84 with the blinds. And the flop comes queen of diamonds, eight of clubs, five of clubs, under the gun checks and it's on us.
- [57:02]
Patrick
Well, flop, top pair, top kicker. It's always a good thing. Let's address the fact that you got two callers after you're playing one, three and a 20 bet. So a table is decently heavy. I don't know if that's the right term, but you know, that's what I'm thinking in my head. So I'm definitely betting here. Obviously, there's a little bit of a club draw out there.
- [57:30]
Host 2 (Male)
There's not a little bit of a. There is a club draw. I don't know. That little bit is the right.
- [57:36]
Patrick
I like to. I like to think that it's going to go, you know, runner, runner, spades, and we're going to be fine. I like to, you know, the cards don't always listen to me. I'm going. I'm going 50 into. Into 84.
- [57:55]
Host 2 (Male)
Okay. I like where you're going. I was a little bit. I had a bigger number in my head.
- [58:01]
Patrick
You had 65.
- [58:03]
Host 2 (Male)
60, but yeah, four ways on a board with two clubs and some. Some straight draw stuff there. We've got, like you said, top pair, top kicker. We're on the same page again, not checking. I want to charge the draws a little bit and hopefully thin the field. And since we got so many callers from a $20 bet, I want to go a little bit more. So $60 for me. We. We're in agreement, though, that free cards here get you in trouble.
- [58:43]
Patrick
Yeah, for sure.
- [58:45]
Host 2 (Male)
Ciaran says, I bet 35. That's not it. That's not charging the draws enough. But the cutoff does fold. The button calls and the under the gun player calls. He says the button is a younger guy who's been splashing around quite a bit. The under the gun player still seemed pretty straightforward. So the pot now is $189, and the turn is the four of hearts. Under the gun checks again. So the board is queen of diamonds, eight of clubs, five of clubs, four of hearts.
- [59:38]
Patrick
That's the thing of beauty. I love it.
- [59:41]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah, it's. It's definitely a break. No flush, essentially. No straight there.
- [59:46]
Patrick
I. I know you're really putting someone on six. Seven.
- [59:49]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah.
- [59:50]
Patrick
And listen, we don't have any teenage and preteen viewers out there, so, you know, if anyone has any tips just for doing it, don't do it. Okay, continue. All right, continue. Yeah, I mean, I still feel very good about this. Obviously, playing Seon's hand. I. I think we've got to. I think we need to step up our sizing significantly from the 35. I, you know, I definitely want to charge either one of them if they're on a draw of any sorts. I really don't make it on 7. 6. I. I don't like to say that, but I'm going to say it so we don't have to say that again, I, I think we're still very much in control and ahead of this hand, so I'm going to make them pay for to continue it. I'm going 100, 125, actually. 125.
- [60:39]
Host 2 (Male)
Okay. I like 125 better. I was thinking 130 within my head, so. Okay, good. Make the draws pay, get value from the splashy button who's been apparently calling everything. So125.130 is where we're at. CRN says I don't know what amount I can bet to get them off of a flush draw. So I check, He says, hoping to get to the river cheaply in case a club falls, and if not, then we can push onward. The button checked as well. Oh, boy. I think that may have been the worst mistake of the hand. But now the pot is the same $189 and the river is the jack of clubs. So our final board is queen of diamonds, eight of clubs, five of clubs, four of hearts, Jack of clubs. Under the gun immediately bets $75 and the button quickly folds out of turn. So I know it'll be heads up if I call.
- [62:03]
Patrick
Okay, well, I. Given that I probably am still making this call, if I'm playing this hand, Joe, and giving everything. I'm probably still for all the wrong reasons, but I want to see what they have. We still have top pair, top kicker. If you made your flush, then, you know, good. Good on you and you know, bad on me for I don't. I feel like a bad teacher right now with crn. I. Listen cr we all play hands differently. I think, I think the check there, I think if you size up a good bet, and I understand that you questioning, you know, what can get someone off a draw, but I think, you know, anything over 120, 125, 130, you know, I think you're going to at least make them question for sure. And if the club falls here, then, then it falls, you know, and then we, we figured out from there. But I think letting them see it for free is, you know, they're, they're in their own heads doing a little Irish jig. So.
- [63:04]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah, but doesn't. Doesn't making the call here completely negate the whole reason that you checked you wanted to keep the pot small. And then you're going to still call his $75 bet if, if the club comes this. Keep in mind this is not our friend on the button who's been splashy. This is our under the gun, passive Player that's hardly played any hands. He check called the entire way until this three club board came about. We've got just one pair. And I mean I believe him. I believe him. It's, it's a cheap bet, but isn't it a cheap bet probably designed to be called.
- [64:01]
Patrick
Yeah.
- [64:04]
Host 2 (Male)
So I'm folding, unfolding. CRN says I sat there thinking he could have a busted straight draw that turned into a bluff, maybe a queen with a worse kicker or maybe he just got there with clubs. I ended up calling and he turned over the king of clubs, 10 of clubs for the flush. He said after talking the hand over with my friends, they seem to think I shouldn't have checked the turn. They are right. But if I bet there, I don't think they fold with a flush draw. So I'm essentially saving money by not bloating the pot. So he says, I have a few questions about the hand in general. He said, should I have raised larger pre flop after the limb?
- [64:55]
Patrick
Yes.
- [64:59]
Host 2 (Male)
I mean yes, because he still got called in three spots. I don't think his sizing was a failure. I don't think this was, you know, that kind of a failure. He could have gone 25 to $30 to thin the, to thin the field a little bit.
- [65:17]
Patrick
But yeah, sizing wasn't terrible there at all.
- [65:21]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah, going with, with, with ace queen suited. I don't know that you need to go that big of a bet because you want callers. You know, if, if you make the bet bigger and you thin, thin the field then you're, I think you're being results oriented with that because I think that ace queen suited, you're gonna want, you're gonna want some people in the pot. Is the flop bet sizing too small with two opponents and a flush draw out there? Yes. I honestly that's the issue that sets up some of these mistakes later. A bigger bet there, it does well, it does two things. It charges the draws and it starts building that pot so that a turn barrel is actually meaningful. So I guess I would say to your friends that are focused on the turn, maybe they're a street too late. Maybe that one is, is a mistake to be focused on. Once the club comes on the river, is this an easy fold or do you have to pay off a smaller bet like this?
- [66:40]
Patrick
Well, the answer is, the answer is yes. You know, depending on whose camp you're in, I the far majority of the time, given the circumstances, if the button doesn't fold out of turn, which listen, a couple years ago I Would have never cared, but that just annoys me. I don't know why it annoys me, but it just annoys me. That being said, in this instance, he folds out a turn and I know it's going to be heads up. I probably do. I want to see it, I want to, I want to know that they had it. I, you know, it's a small enough bet. It's not smart necessarily. I'm okay to admit that, hands up. But yeah, I'm, I'm probably calling that most of the time. Yeah, every once in a while I'm going to fold that properly.
- [67:27]
Host 2 (Male)
I think I, I want to go back to this turn for just a second because it leads me to what I'm thinking here where his saving money logic with the turn by not bloating the pot. First of all, you're not betting on the turn to make king 10 of clubs fold. You're betting there to make them pay the wrong price to keep drawing. So let that, letting them see that river for free is not saving money especially, and this is why I bring it up here, especially if you're going to call the 75 anyway.
- [68:14]
Patrick
Yeah, that's valid. I think we're playing a lot of what ifs here. But let me ask you this, what if. So you've got queen of diamonds, eight of clubs, five of clubs, four of hearts comes out. If you bet and get called there and then they hit their flush and they lead out into you size wise above that, doesn't that make it an easier fold? Yes, I think that's the idea. I think that's something that I've learned over time is again, I, I, well, I mean this is a perfect example. I, if, If I'm playing CRN's hand and I check and then I call after the river, that's, that's the problem. That's what, that's what got me in trouble a lot. So I think as you, as you're telling your story, as you're, as you're betting throughout, if you bet there, get called on the, on the turn and then they lead out into you there, that's a really easy fold.
- [69:12]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah.
- [69:13]
Patrick
Whereas you checked and you know, it could be, you know, they could have had a queen with a lesser, they could have missed their draw. And I think that's where I want to know and I can take that going forward, you know that piece of information for a cheaper size bet. Yeah, a couple things would have been
- [69:33]
Host 2 (Male)
played different but yeah, I think that again and I mentioned this earlier, but if this is the, the button, I might think about it differently.
- [69:43]
Patrick
Correct.
- [69:44]
Host 2 (Male)
But the fact that this is the first of all, the position of under the gun from a guy that's older, gentleman, not playing many hands, I just don't see this as a bluff in any way, shape, or form. So. But let me, let me ask you this too, Patrick. Are you saying that if that player, if the guy on the button doesn't fold out of turn, are you making that fold there?
- [70:15]
Patrick
I think I am. I think I'm doing it for. I think I'm doing it for two reasons, and they may be absolutely wrong, and I can put a dunce camp on afterwards. Joe, don't make me do it live on this. But I think I'm doing it because a, I want to know, you know, a player that's sitting next to me that, you know, doesn't play very often. I, I get that they're not playing very often and the likelihood of them having something is there. However, they haven't played very often. They've got two high suited cards. You know, maybe it was a straight draw. Busted. I want to see it, to gather that knowledge and to force them to do it. But if there's someone behind me, my, my logic is, all right, well, then you're the idiot. You gotta pay to see it. And then if I don't, then I don't. So.
- [71:02]
Host 2 (Male)
And then you're right, wrong, or indifferent.
- [71:04]
Patrick
That's my thought process. Yeah. If the button, the splashy button doesn't,
- [71:08]
Host 2 (Male)
you're like, I'm gonna let somebody else be the huckleberry. I'm gonna just get out of the way.
- [71:14]
Patrick
That is exactly my thought. And a splashy button next to me on the other side, I'm thinking that's probably a likely, you know, call there, or not likely, but a decent, you know, chance, then, yeah, I'm gonna just suck it up. And if, if he doesn't and we don't get to see it, then we don't get to see it. So by the button, folding out a turn cost me 75 chips. Hence, hence why I'm still a work in progress. Joe.
- [71:43]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah, yeah.
- [71:47]
Patrick
He said, yeah, yeah, you are.
- [71:54]
Host 2 (Male)
Yeah, that's, that's. That, that is tough, though. You know, I think that maybe if you bet that $130 on the turn, he, he might not fold. But I think with one card to come, he might, we might be able to get, especially a, a guy that's more passive to, to lay it down. So regardless, it still sucks that that Club comes on the river. But I think in this case, your friends are right. You shouldn't have. Shouldn't have checked that turn. But we do appreciate you sending that in. And if anyone has a hand of the week that they would like to know how Patrick and I would break it down, send it to podcastnetmagazine.com Patrick, we'll see you next week.
- [72:46]
Patrick
Sounds like a plan. I'm gonna go put on Neil Diamonds rise on the 18th.
- [73:08]
Host 2 (Male)
This week's one outer comes straight out of some work I've been doing on my own game. I've been sitting down with someone to hunt for leaks. Those. Those little cracks in how I play that bleeds chips over time. And the biggest one we found was defending my blinds way too much. And after we talked about it for a while, I felt like this could be a complete game changer for me. But here's how it looks. I'm in the big blind. I've already got money out there. Somebody raises from late position, and they have some hand I know is probably better than the trash I'm holding. But there's this little voice that says, I'm not letting this guy just take my blind. So I call. Nine, four suited, king, deuce, whatever. It doesn't even matter because it was never really about the cards. I called because folding felt like flinching. And then the flop comes, and I've got bottom pair or some backdoor garbage, and I'm stuck out of position. Turns out the only thing that my defense bought me in that situation is the feeling of not backing down. And that feeling is expensive. The thing this exercise helped me see, though, was that that leak doesn't cost me one big pot that I can point to and learn from. It's not a dramatic cooler. It's just this slow bleed, a little blind here, a big blind there. Orbit after orbit all night long. I don't even feel the chips leaving. I just look up at some point and wonder how this big stack got to be so small. And there's no single hand to blame. There's just a hundred blinds that I defended because ego couldn't let a single one go. And that's what got me, really, because it was never a strategy problem. I know the strategy. I can tell you which hands play fine from the blinds and which ones are lighting money on fire. The hard part is that folding the blind felt like losing. Felt like the guy on the button gets to push me around and I have to just let him. It feels weak. It stings. So I would would defend. Not because it was right, but because folding hurt my pride more than losing the pot did. And that's not a poker mistake. That's an emotional one. So watch for it. The next time you play, watch yourself. The button raises. You look down at garbage. Now pay attention to what you feel before you notice what you think. If there's that flare of I'll show him. Well, that's not good. That's not a read or a plan. That's your ego sitting down in your chair and playing the hand for you. And your ego is a terrible poker player. It never folds. It always has the answer. It would rather lose the whole stack than admit it got raised off of a hand it didn't really want anyway. So what I really needed to learn is that folding isn't flinching. Letting the blind go isn't weakness. It's actually the opposite. It takes more discipline to fold and feel the sting and let it sit there than it does to fire chips at a fight I was destined to lose. The strong play and the strong feeling point in opposite directions, and the skill is being able to tell them apart in the moment. So the question is, are you defending too wide? Because folding would feel like losing. Even though you already know in your gut that the cost is more than the blind is worth. You can go broke defending every blind. Maybe not in one hand, but in a thousand small ones you were too proud to let go. That's today's one outer and that's today's show. I'll see you next week, a team. And until then, I'll see you at the tables.
- [77:57]
Elliot Schechter
The Antioch Podcast is a production of Antiopmagazine.com contact the show at podcasts@anyupmagazine.com or call the show at 540-339-7741. If you'd like to advertise, send an email to editoryupmagazine.com
- [78:20]
Grainger Announcer
Grainger knows when you're a procurement manager for an office park, you're not managing one building, you're managing all of them. And to stay ahead, you need to see through one walls and around corners. Lights about to fail, filters ready to clog. H Vac on its last leg. If you wait until something breaks, you're already behind. Count on Grainger for quality products, easy reordering and 24. 7 support. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.