Chapter 4 Ep. 3 — Context Matters

Summary

---

Ante Up Poker Podcast

Chapter 4, Episode 3 — "Context Matters"
Hosted by Joe Scales
January 31, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Ante Up Poker Podcast, hosted by Joe Scales, dives into why context is everything in poker, both at and away from the tables. Joe, joined by Elle and contributors Patrick and Elliot Schechter, brings the usual mix of humor, strategy, listener questions, and hand analysis. The show touches on tournament structures, evolving casino rules, lively listener hands, and the importance of giving (and seeking) poker advice with rich context.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Table Talk: Are High Buy-In Tournaments Necessary for Big Guarantees?

Segment starts: 02:18

• Listener Question: Will Dixon asks if massive guarantees truly require high buy-ins or if lower buy-in events can fuel large prize pools.
• Elle’s Take ([04:18]):
  • Poker juggles an "ebb and flow" year to year.
  • "There’s a lot more that goes into what buy-in works than we realize."
  • Economic realities (like post-holiday budgeting) often push organizers to use smaller buy-ins.
• Joe’s Perspective ([07:07]):
  • Multiple events with varied buy-ins are ideal.
  • Lower buy-ins engage more recreational players:
    "We represent the everyday poker player... I feel like the lower buy-in tournaments bring in more recreational players..." ([07:44])
  • From a marketing standpoint, higher buy-in events require a different (and harder) sell to fill the field.
• Elle’s Analogy ([06:46]):
  • Planning tournaments is like organizing a family reunion—timing and variety are key.
• Consensus: Large guarantees don't strictly need big buy-ins. The field matters more than the price tag, and variety and accessibility grow the game.

---

2. Hot Topics in the Poker World

Jungleman’s Boxing Match — Segment starts: 09:53

• Jungleman’s Boxing Debut ([10:01]):
  • Jungleman (Dan Cates) debuts as a boxer vs. sports betting host Ryan Noel.
  • Controversy: Jungleman is knocked out when not ready, but the ref technically started the round ([11:05]).
  • Elle: "When you’re new to a sport, that could be an easy mistake to make." ([11:42])
  • Jungleman suffered a concussion but is seeking a rematch ([12:51]).
  • Panel jokes about how "Jungleman" is a perfect name for a fighter or WWE star.
• WSOPC Ring Race ([13:40]):
  • Maurice Hawkins wins his 22nd ring in Tunica’s Mini Main event, with Ari Engle and David Lowry close behind.
  • Local player shout-outs and updates from tournament circuits (MSPT in Arizona, Lone Butte tour stop promotion).
• Reflecting on Poker Community Contributors ([16:21–19:52]):
  • The February Ante Up magazine issue will feature an in-depth interview with a "good human"—a poker photographer.
  • Elle and Joe reflect on the unseen heroes in poker—photographers and hand reporters.
  • "A photograph tells, and it doesn’t lie... There’s stories with words and stories with pictures." (Joe, [18:40])

---

3. Call the Floor – The String Bet Dilemma

Segment starts: 22:20

• Scenario ([22:44]):
  • Listener Nate Strong asks why, in a casino, his raise is limited after he says "raise" but adds chips in two actions—dealer rules it a string bet.
• Elliot Schechter’s Ruling & Explanation ([26:21–39:06]):
  • Modern casinos demand clean, single-motion betting to avoid angle-shooting and delays.
  • "If you're placing chips in the pot, that commits you. Don’t move until you know your bet." (Elliot, [28:29])
  • Old TV poker’s drama (e.g., Poker After Dark) doesn’t reflect today’s efficiency-focused casino standards.
  • Home games allow leniency due to familiarity and trust but new or less-known players break that “intent” safety net.
  • Poker advice: Practice casino-style betting even at home so transitions aren’t a shock, and to avoid unintentionally signaling tells.
  • Notable: "You should want everybody’s eyes on everybody else... not on you." (Elliot, [37:37])
  • Home game quirks can be fun, but don’t expect the same leeway in a casino.
• Key Takeaway: Clean up your betting motions—announce raise, put out your full raise in a single push.

---

4. Hand of the Week – Flopping Tens Full

Segment starts: 41:28

• Scenario:
  • Listener Dave Miller plays $1/$2 cash at Wind Creek, Bethlehem, PA.
  • Table is very tight; actions are generally subdued.
  • Preflop: Dave raises with pocket tens ($5), gets three-bet by a tight player in the cutoff ($15), opts to just call.
  • Flop: 10♠ 9♣ 9♥ — Dave flops tens full.
    • Decides to lead out ($20), gets called.
  • Turn: 9♦ — Board is now 10 9 9 9.
    • Bets $35, cutoff raises to $135.
    • Discussion: Should Dave just call or shove? Both Joe and Patrick debate between value maximization vs. not losing action (i.e., if a nine or scare card comes).
    • Ultimately, Dave just calls and check-dark rivers.
  • River: Blank. Opponent shoves, Dave calls.
    • Showdown: Cutoff has pocket aces; Dave scoops the pot.
• Analysis and Lessons:
  • For very tight and straightforward villains, sometimes leading out is right for value.
  • Joe critiques the check-dark: “Checking dark is one of those things where there’s a time for it. But I don’t think this was one of those.”
  • Play hands in context—tight games, deep stacks, and calling stations all warrant different approaches.
• Memorable Moment ([65:00]):
  • Dave turning over tens: “That’s not the hand.”
  • Patrick: “Dave Miller, this is great. Well played, sir.”

---

5. Joe’s One Outer: Why Context Matters in Poker Advice

Segment starts: 67:11

• Joe laments the lack of detail in poker advice shared online:
  • “Poker isn’t chess. It isn’t one correct move that’s always correct. Forever. Poker decisions, they live in these little details.” ([67:12])
• Cautions against one-size-fits-all social media answers: “...without that context, a lot of that advice is basically a guess.”
• Advice to listeners:
  • Always provide as much relevant detail as possible when seeking or giving hand advice: position, stack sizes, table dynamics, reads, tournament stage, etc.
  • “The goal isn’t for people to tell you what they’d do in a vacuum. The goal is to help you build a process...”
• A core part of the podcast’s approach: reading hands “cold” for authentic, in-the-moment analysis that mirrors real table play.
• “That’s today’s One Outer and that’s today’s show.” ([71:29])

---

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• Elle (On Buy-Ins):
  • “There’s a lot more that goes into what buy-in works than we realize.” ([04:18])
• Joe (On Tournament Accessibility & Marketing):
  • “When you start talking about high buy-in events... now you’ve got to market it harder or differently.” ([08:03])
• Elliot (On String Bets):
  • “If you want to put a raise in, put your raise in. Why does it need to be in two different actions? Nobody can really explain that.” ([26:21])
• Joe (On Poker Advice Online):
  • “Poker isn’t chess... Poker decisions, they live in these little details... When you strip the story out, the advice becomes dangerous because it trains players to chase the one-line rules instead of learning how to think.” ([67:11–67:42])
• Patrick (On the Hand of the Week):
  • “Friends don’t let friends check dark.” ([63:31])
• Joe (On Becoming Tighter at the Table):
  • “If it’s something that you’re doing all the time in your home game... they may have picked up on some piece of information and, and they’re not telling you.” ([39:06])
• Elle (On Poker Community):
  • “Artists have a lot to share with the world. And I think that our cover story is someone who is dedicated to painting the true picture of poker and the fun and the raw grit and competition and the people.” ([19:31])

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:18 – Table Talk (Buy-ins & Tournament Guarantees)
• 09:53 – Jungleman’s Boxing Match & Poker Community News
• 22:20 – Call the Floor (String Bet Question w/ Elliot Schechter)
• 41:28 – Hand of the Week (Dave Miller’s Pocket Tens Full)
• 67:11 – Joe’s One Outer: The Value of Context in Poker Decisions

---

Conclusion & Takeaways

• Always seek (and give) poker advice within proper context—details matter!
• Modern poker is shifting toward more inclusive, accessible formats with lower buy-ins and richer player pools.
• When moving from home games to casino settings, be ready for strict procedural rules.
• In hand analysis, think about opponents, table dynamics, and give yourself room to make evidence-based decisions rather than defaulting to cookie-cutter plays.
• The poker community thrives because of its diverse contributors—from tournament photographers to hand reporters and magazine columnists.
• And finally: “Every hand is an opportunity, every player is a friend, and every episode is a winning experience.” — Joe Scales

---

To submit your own Hand of the Week or a Call the Floor, email: [e-mail]
To support the show and join community games, visit the official website and Patreon.

---

Transcript

[Elle]

Take

[Patrick]

your seat, the cards are flying high. Shuffle up and deal at the aces Lie Longest running show. Yeah, we've seen it all. From the river to the rail we answer the call.

[Joe Scales]

Hello, 18, and welcome back to another episode of the Ante Up Poker podcast, where every hand is an opportunity, every player is a friend, every. And every episode is a winning experience. I'm your host, Joe Scales, and as you heard, the new intro is officially set and those of you watching saw it has the new video for you as well. I hope you guys like that. Still working on the bumpers for each of the segments, but I want to say a huge thank you to everyone who reached out with feedback on the intro options. And when I say it was close, mean, everybody liked both of them, but this one came out the the true winner. I sorted through a lot of emails, listened to all of your thoughts, and I mean, after everything was said and done, I think this one just felt like the best fit overall, especially for how the show flows from segment to segment. That said, the other intro is too good to just sit on a shelf. Right? So don't be surprised if you hear it pop up in another way down the road. Quick reminders before we dive into the show. The Patreon game is coming up this Thursday, the 5th. I hope to see everyone there. The Bounty will be on Tea Titan, so keep an eye out for that. I've also heard from a few of you with some questions about the Gila River Lone Butte tour stop. We'll have tournaments running from the 18th through the 22nd. Satellites are already going on and all the information is up on the website if you're looking to plan ahead and grab a seat. So other than that, we've really got a great show lined up for you again today, and I want to jump right in. That's all the announcements I have for now. So let's get on with the show.

[Elliot Schechter]

Find out what conversations are happening around the poker table with Table Talk.

[Joe Scales]

Elle and I are back around the poker table.

[Elle]

How are you? I'm just glad to be here with you.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, this has been a week. It's been cold, so nobody can get out much, and when they do, it's just like short trips to wherever.

[Elle]

Yeah, we get to meet some friends at a Mexican restaurant the other night. That was really fun. Yeah, I think everybody's just getting squirrely. Not you, not me, not us. Well, I mean, we both. Yeah. But, like, it's just. I'm happy I'm here with you.

[Joe Scales]

Likewise. Likewise. I. I want to Touch on one thing real quick before we even get into a whole bunch of things, because Will Dixon sent in a hand of the week and he asked something during that hand of the week that I don't think we're going to have. We haven't got to the hand of the. His hand of the week yet. And I don't think we're going to be able to discuss the question that he asked during that segment because it'll take too long.

[Elle]

Oh, I like this. So did Will say.

[Joe Scales]

I would love to discuss it here.

[Elle]

Okay.

[Joe Scales]

In. In the hand he's playing in a $400 buy in tournament standard that ballooned up to the prize pool to like almost $2 million.

[Elle]

I can't do the math that fast.

[Joe Scales]

So huge.

[Elle]

A lot, A lot of entries are revised or Revised. Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

So he asked the question, are these high buy in tournaments actually necessary to create these, these massive guarantees or should we be focusing more on smaller buy in tournaments with. With less stress for people? Bankroll.

[Elle]

The pendulum swings. And the first thing that comes to mind is, you know, what we heard that worked really well in casinos last year is not what's really working this year. And I think there's an ebb and flow that we have to consider. And there's a lot more that goes into what buy in works than we realize. Like, I think there's some economic reasons that people may feel more inclined to be participating in lower buy ins right now. I think, you know, we even said first of the year, it's like, yeah, there's all these low buy ins because everybody just finished Christmas.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Elle]

But he's bringing up a point that, like, do we really need big buy ins to get big guarantees? Probably not. But there's also the second thing that comes to mind for me is that field's bigger. So I have to consider when I look at a $400 buy in versus a $1,200 buy in, especially if rebuys are allowed.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Elle]

Then I may have a bigger field to go through to play against. Right. So if my bankroll allows, I might want to play that 1200 because you

[Joe Scales]

don't have to face as many people.

[Elle]

Yeah, there's lots of things to be considered. And I think he brings up a good point. I feel like, Will, you just opened a can of worms.

[Joe Scales]

You know, I mean, we've already proven that these smaller buy in events, I mean, the WSOP had. What's it, what was it called? The Goliath and. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was. I think it was a $400 buy in too, if I'm not mistaken. But it was. No, it was the Gladiators, what it was called. And it had a $3 million guarantee and a $400 buy it. So we've proven that it can happen. Online poker does it all the time, Right?

[Elle]

Right.

[Joe Scales]

You have a $10 or $20 or $50 buy in tournament and you get huge guarantees or prize pools out of it.

[Elle]

So what is his question really asking? Maybe let's go back to the question. Is he saying do we have to have big.

[Joe Scales]

Are they, are they necessary to create these massive guarantees?

[Elle]

Are big buy ins?

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. No.

[Elle]

Just depends on short answer. Yeah, the short answer is no. If.

[Joe Scales]

If what?

[Elle]

You have the field that's willing to come and play and pay.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Elle]

At whatever time. And that's another whole thing is like think about an event you're trying to plan for your family. Extended family.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Elle]

Like a family reunion. You say Saturday would be a great day. It's not always great for everyone.

[Joe Scales]

That's true.

[Elle]

I don't know.

[Joe Scales]

That's why I think that the, the key is probably, you know, multiple events. Right.

[Elle]

Opportunities.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

So which a lot of places like Schenectady do.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. I think Schenectady does a really good job with a low buy in because you have this ability to make it multiple days. Right. You have multiple day ones. You grow that prize pool up.

[Elle]

And I think that's what's in our mind. Cause that was the most recent one outside of our championship and Vegas. But I think, you know, it's happening everywhere. We're hearing more and more that that's a deep desire of players.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. And I think maybe I might be a little bit biased too because of who I am and who we represent. Right. We represent the everyday poker player with Annie up and, and I feel like the lower buy in tournaments bring in more recreational players, therefore, well, they're more approach.

[Elle]

They're more apt and able to participate. Right. So you, you're bringing the game to people.

[Joe Scales]

I think that's more specific.

[Elle]

You're meeting people where they are.

[Joe Scales]

Right. I talked with a poker room director just the other day and they were talking about wanting the next poker boom. Right?

[Elle]

Yeah. That's what I meant by the pendulum swinging.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, yeah. The, the next poker bonds, the next poker boom could just come about because there's more opportunity and more opportunity is because you have lower buy in tournaments.

[Elle]

Hmm.

[Joe Scales]

Interesting. Makes the game more sustainable, I feel like.

[Elle]

Well, and you can share it with people. Some you Know you want to invite your friends.

[Elliot Schechter]

Sure.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. You bring your friends. Maybe even you talking about multiple buy ins. Like if it's a, a $400 tournament versus a $1200 tournament, that's three buy ins versus one. So you're not wrong. Yeah, I just, I think when you narrow the field from a marketing standpoint, because that's the field that I came from. Right. From a marketing standpoint, when you start talking about, oh, we're gonna have a higher buy in event and it's going to lower that player pool, now you've got to market it harder or differently. Yeah. Because you need those. If it's going to be a less of a player pool, you need them to be there to make that guarantee. So you kind of make life more difficult for yourself to some degree as well.

[Elle]

Either way, great conversation starter. Will. Thank you. If you have other topics that you would like us to discuss, I think we're always open to hearing from that and sort of debating it on air. So thank you, Will, for.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, I love bringing that to mind like that. Debates like that kind of a debate was also. Jungle Man. Did you see that debate?

[Elle]

No. Yeah, he was in a. He was in a ring. There was no debating, there was fighting.

[Joe Scales]

There was a debate because the very way, the way it ended.

[Elle]

Okay, well, hold on. For those of you that don't know Jungle man, very well known character in the poker community, is now giving boxing a run.

[Joe Scales]

Right. He had his first fight ever.

[Elle]

Yeah. His very first debut. There's always. There's already something under reviewer discussion and this is rightly so.

[Joe Scales]

Right. Yeah. He went against Ryan Noel. Noel. I don't know him. But he's a sports betting. He has a sports betting show. Okay, so he's a host of a sports betting show.

[Elle]

And I still haven't watched it, but

[Joe Scales]

he has a background in fighting. So he is this.

[Elle]

Fighting. Boxing, mma. What are we doing here?

[Joe Scales]

This one was boxing. I don't know what Ryan's background.

[Elle]

So Jungle man has an interest in boxing.

[Joe Scales]

Yes. He jumps in the ring with Ryan and he makes it to the second round.

[Elle]

A legit fight.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, legit fight. Yeah. They get to the second round and it was actually ended because he, Ryan hits Jungle man out of the blue. Like Jungle man wasn't ready for it. And if you watched it, I watched the video and the, the ref definitely says fight. So in that sense it's a legit hit. Jungle Man's not even looking anywhere in that direction. He has no idea. He's like walking to the corner. I don't know if he thought the round was over.

[Elle]

And you're new to a sport that could be an easy mistake to make.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. So some are saying they thought it was a cheap shot by Ryan.

[Elle]

Okay.

[Joe Scales]

And others are like, no, they said fight, so it's legal.

[Elle]

Game on.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

Regardless, this is, like, out of the blue, not what I expect from Jungle man at all. Someone who. Who is very natural.

[Joe Scales]

He, like. He's a character.

[Elle]

Like, wears his scarf. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Scales]

Wears all kinds of different things. His reading showed up as the Macho man one time.

[Elle]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

At a tournament at the wsop.

[Elle]

Was it Poker After Dark? We were watching where he's, like, reading while everybody else is studying the players and he's like, reading a book. And the recliner. I mean, this is when you even

[Joe Scales]

told me it was that Poker after the Dark, the. The one where they had the teams pitted against each other. Yeah.

[Elle]

And they're like, what are you doing? And he's like, I'm reading. What are you doing? You know, like, this is not a sport. This is not an avenue I thought he would be pursuing. So it surprised me on all fronts. But I hope he's okay.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, he's. They said he had. He suffered a concussion and he already said he would like to have a rematch. So we'll see. More to come on that.

[Elle]

So he got backed up.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, well, he never actually hit the ground. That was the thing is they stopped it because you could tell he was cuckoo for Coco. Yeah. Yeah, that.

[Elle]

Wow. Well, more power to him to getting back up and back in the fight, per se. I'm just glad he's all right. And I'm surprised. But we'll keep an eye out for the More boxing from Jungle Man. You know, that's got a great name already. That's fair.

[Patrick]

He does have a really great name.

[Joe Scales]

That's a great boxer name, right?

[Elle]

Yeah, he.

[Patrick]

Or.

[Joe Scales]

Or wwe. One of the two.

[Elle]

Something. Something along those lines. Well, speaking of competition and neck and neck.

[Joe Scales]

Oh, yeah.

[Elle]

Still at the races. Maurice Hawkins got another ring, so I'm sure. Ari.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, 22.

[Elle]

Yeah, 20. Number 22. Which happened in Tunica, I believe it was this week.

[Joe Scales]

Yep, it was the Mini Maine.

[Elle]

So Ari Engle is still on his coattails and has two more to catch up now.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

Right. So. So I'm sure the pressure is on Ari.

[Joe Scales]

Behind him, you've got David Lowry, who's the up and coming, who has 19.

[Elle]

So in that leaderboard, he's just racking up the points.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

Racking up the points a Tunica, though. We. We do have somebody we know in Tunica this week. Shout out to how Hyatt.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. He said he actually played a couple of hands with Maurice, so.

[Elle]

Oh, nice.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, a lot of people tearing it up out there that the mini main that he won, that Maurice Hawkins won, had 625 entries in it. I know how Hyatt said that thing that the tournaments have been stellar, competition

[Elle]

has been stiff, and it's been super fun. We've heard a lot of really great stories coming from there and seeing some pictures come in. So hopefully we'll have some of that to share.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

With folks. We've also heard from our ambassador, Dustin Scarra, out in Arizona. He's playing in the mspt.

[Joe Scales]

Mspt, yeah.

[Elle]

This week.

[Joe Scales]

From what I understand, that tournament is going really well, too. They have some big guarantees coming up on that. Speaking of guarantees, so. Yeah, well, that's.

[Elle]

I mean, there's like we've always said there's always poker to be had.

[Joe Scales]

Oh, 100%.

[Elle]

There's always action to be had somewhere, somehow, some way. And I'd love to just revisit some of our tips and tricks from the magazine because I think January has been super slow in some ways and super fast in others. We still. We still need to do our Wheel of Life. I went, if you want to know, truth be told, I went and added a comment on our YouTube from last week to say this is the Wheel of Life, or two weeks ago. Here's the link. So the link is live. It's out there. If you want to go take the assessment, it's free. We have to do that this week because we promised we would. And two, I really am curious about the details and I. Because I want to apply them. This is where I'm going. I wanted to apply them to one of the other articles from Dustin, which was like, how do you make goals? Oh, what, you know, you know, how we set resolutions. What are some goals? What are some things to consider? Because sneak peek, he's following that up with how do you choose a coach? Or do you need a coach? Or what do you look for? I think are the things he's going to be answering coming up. So I want to be prepared for those.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. The February issue is packed with more stuff again. You know, there's that article, our cover story we finished up with. Should I tell them who it is?

[Elle]

No, keep it a secret.

[Joe Scales]

Okay. Well, we finished up with our. Our. I'm gonna. I'll give Him a sneak peek a little bit. He's a photographer in the poker arena.

[Elle]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

And what, what an incredible interview that was.

[Elle]

He's just a good human.

[Joe Scales]

You know, we've really had some great, great people on our cover since we. Since we've been doing this. But in 2026 we have Lupe. And I think you would be hard pressed to find anybody to say a negative word about Lupe. Right now we've got the one coming up. Another good human. And so just.

[Elle]

Yeah. I just can't wait to. Yeah. I can't wait to see people's responses. Just number one, like, I don't think everybody thinks about the photographers.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Elle]

Or I'll tell you one. One group of people that I'm super impressed with when we go to these tournaments are the ones that are like writing down the hands.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

As they're happening to be able to report on them. And I think because we all carry around a camera now.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Elle]

We're just like, yeah, photos are an afterthought. Because how many photos do I have? I just looked. It was like 42,000 on my phone. They're an afterthought.

[Joe Scales]

Most people don't have that.

[Elle]

I know, I understand. But it's a love of mine. I like to take. I like to take pictures of everything.

[Elliot Schechter]

Our.

[Elle]

Our animals, the snow, our family, screenshot, things. So I can remember, like there's tons of reasons why. But we digress. Documenting the game has changed and I think what the human on our cover is going to. I'm not giving out details.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Elle]

Is going to make everyone. Or I hope everyone recognizes just how much that adds to our community and what fun they have doing this.

[Joe Scales]

Well, I think that. To your point about taking pictures, though, there's stories with words and there's stories with pictures. Right.

[Elle]

Images.

[Joe Scales]

And yeah. A photograph tells they. I know that there's that old adage like a picture is worth a thousand words.

[Elle]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

And that can be true if it's done right.

[Patrick]

Right.

[Joe Scales]

It. And it doesn't lie like the, the pictures are. They sent me some pictures that they would like me to use in along with their. Their interview. And I mean that. I can't take pictures like that. I mean, I probably could if I studied and whatever, but.

[Elle]

And if you have the right tools. He's got some pretty stellar, amazing tools.

[Joe Scales]

I was, I was going through those pictures and I, I probably spent way too long as I'm putting them in another folder going, oh, wow. Oh, that's a good picture. Oh, wow.

[Elle]

But artists have a lot to share with the world. And I think that our cover story is someone who is dedicated to painting the true picture of poker and the fun and the raw grit and competition and the people.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

And the stories that come to the table with those people. And he does a beautiful job.

[Joe Scales]

He does. And, you know, I don't want to discount also, I mean, we've got writers that are sending us all kinds of stuff from across the country and they help us understand what's going on around. Around.

[Elle]

Well, the written word is a craft.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Elle]

As well.

[Joe Scales]

And then we've got the strategy columns, we've got the poker beats we're giving out.

[Elle]

Yes. Another thing I've just teaser.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

The tune for this month is killer. It's on repeat. Rob Fulfer, thank you so much for contributing every month to Poker Beats. Where can we find poker in music?

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elle]

And this song literally on repeat.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, yeah.

[Elle]

Had never even been exposed to it before.

[Joe Scales]

So I love this segment or that. That article every month because I love that he finds music that I don't typically know about.

[Elle]

Right.

[Joe Scales]

And you know, sometimes I, I will be like, oh, yeah, that one. Oh, that one. But this one, we both, neither one of us had heard of it. Right. And then we looked it up and we keep listening.

[Elle]

We keep listening.

[Joe Scales]

So, yeah, like you said, on repeat now.

[Elle]

Yeah. It feels like we're tooting our own horn. We just are saying, go read the magazine next month when it comes out because there's going to be great stuff as far as we hope that it contributes to the growth in your game or your excitement or move. Moving the game forward because you guys all know you hear that from us all the time. We want to just feed people in our community with the best information and knowledge and strategy and trivia the best we can. So, yeah, absolutely, we're excited about it, which is why we're even talking about it.

[Joe Scales]

Right. Always. Always excited about the. The next one, too. And other than that, I think we just gotta try to stay warm with another snowstorm coming.

[Elle]

It's on the way. It's already begun.

[Joe Scales]

So.

[Elle]

As always, Joe, it's a pleasure being

[Joe Scales]

around the table with you.

[Elle]

Likewise.

[Elliot Schechter]

Now it's time for Call the Floor with Elliot Schechter.

[Joe Scales]

Elliot Schecter joins us each week to say how he would rule on such a situations that come up in your games. And he's with us again this week. Elliot, how's it going?

[Elliot Schechter]

Things are going pretty nicely. How you doing, Joe?

[Joe Scales]

I'm good. We're. We're trying to stay warm here.

[Elliot Schechter]

Good luck.

[Joe Scales]

But I don't. I'm. I. I taught. You know, we have ambassadors all over the place and, and one of our ambassadors is talking about how it's 60 degrees there, so how cold it was. I'm like, shut up. But we do have a call the floor. And it is sent in by Nate Strong. And he says, hey, Elliot, how should this have been ruled? And he says, I've been a listener to the show since way before Joe and Elle brought it back. So glad you stuck around. And this is the first time he sent anything in, so thank you for doing that as well. This situation has bothered me so much, I'm hoping to get some sort of answer from a level mind. So I'm sure that's you, not me. So he says, I have a friendly home game with no dealer and have had this exact type of situation many times. No one ever calls it a string bet because the intent is clear. However, I recently went to play at a casino and had this situation. The pot is about $40, and I'm heads up with another player on the river. My opponent bets $28, and he says his bets were odd amounts like that all night. I say out loud, raise. I didn't have the exact chips to put out $28, so I put out six $5 chips from my stack and pushed them across the table to put out $30. Then after my chips are already out there and the other players looking at them, I reach back into my stack, grab another $70 and add them to the to the top to make it $100 total. He says, I did this all pretty quickly. No long pause, no staring for reactions, and said something like, make it a hundred while adding the second stack of chips. The dealer immediately stopped me and said, that's a string bet. You did announce raise, but since you only put out the call, we have to only make it a min raise. So I was only allowed to make $56 total. I had to put out 60 and they made change. I argued, but I said raise first. And it was all quick. No angle intended. Floor was called, and they backed the dealer. They said that I have to commit the full amount in one continuous forward motion without returning to your stack after chips have been released. So he says, I have questions. In the home game, this flies every time because everyone sees I'm not trying to angle or get a reaction. I'm just physically building the bet and two quick stacks. Is that not a normal way of finishing the action? And why is the verbal raise. Not enough. If it's not enough. If that's the case, why am I allowed to raise it all? So some stuff to unpack there?

[Elliot Schechter]

Sure, quite a bit. Well, let's focus on the casino first and then we'll move to the home game. Most casinos have done away with two handed raises. The old rule from the 70s and 80s was that you could place chips in the pot as long as your hands never came to rest. So you'd keep going back and forth to get all your chips in the pot. When they played with a lot of one denomination of chip rather than multiple denominations to make it easier, that's gone away. Most casinos, if not all of them, have done away with that. We're done. Most games have the required chips to make just about any bet available to the players. And again, this was an exploitable rule precisely because somebody could put in some chips and very slowly move their hands without resting to gauge reaction, which is the very definition of a string bet. You're stringing somebody along to get more information before you've completed your action, therefore changing your action. Potentially. Most casinos have done away with that. We're done. If you want to put a raise in, put your raise in. Why does it need to be in two different actions? Nobody can really explain that. Well, other than that's just what people prefer. Well, I've got bad news for you. Most casinos don't care about this particular preference. We're done. So move on. Yeah. Why did you need to place your money in twice instead of once? Why couldn't you have actually spoken up before you put any money in the pot? Instead of putting some money in pot and then speaking, trying to speak up and say your bet. So again, most of this staggered betting style is a waste of time. You're wasting the other player's time, you're wasting the dealer's time, you're wasting the casino's time.

[Joe Scales]

For what?

[Elliot Schechter]

What is the purpose? And I'm asking sincerely because I don't know. I don't know. If you already thought about your bet, then you didn't need to separate it into two motion. If you knew what you were going to bet before you would place the chip in the pot, and then decided to announce after you place the chip in the pot, why did you announce it at first? So again, that makes no sense. You're just dragging things out. And additionally, if you didn't know what you wanted to bet, why did you act at all? Just call time or just sit there and think, Just tank. So Again, your placing chips in the pot commits you to something. If you didn't want to commit, don't place a chip in the pot. If you didn't have an idea, don't move. But if you knew what you were going to do, do that. Why go through this sequence of events that serve very little, if any, purpose? So, yeah, casinos are done with this and you ran into this head first. Well, let it be a lesson, I hope. Put more intention and thought into your actions as opposed to just relying on habit or doing something that feels comfortable. Make the new, improved actions more comfortable, make those the habit and you'll find off, you'll find you'll have more success at the table, I promise you.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, I used to play with this guy and this was years and years ago, but he would have a stack of chips and he would just start placing chips down in stacks until he thought he could get some kind of reaction and then he would stop. And I, I think that's the reason that this has kind of gone by the wayside. Right? That is one of the avoid.

[Elliot Schechter]

One of the reasons, absolutely, yes.

[Joe Scales]

I think the, the thing that confuses me here is I guess maybe it's because he said raise and so they make it a men raise because he

[Elliot Schechter]

placed chips in the pot. Once again, he committed himself to something. If he had said raise and not put a chip in the pot and then put his entire amount, the entire amount placed in the pot would have been accepted as the action. And that option was available and was deliberately chosen not to be made. So again, yeah, little things like this which used to be put up with are not, it doesn't make sense anymore. If you didn't know what you wanted to bet, don't say anything or don't put a chip in the pot, what was the need to put the call in and then put the raisin? I don't understand. It doesn't make it easier or, or less difficult for the dealer or players to understand what you're trying to do if you just put all your money in the pot. So I, again, I'm still trying to figure out what the purpose is of doing that.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, I, I think a lot of times, you know, we, we, we do get caught up in these videos that we watch of, of the old Poker After Dark and the old, you know, even the old High Stakes Poker and, and all of that where they would, they would put their call out there, the amount that would have been the call, and then stack chips back here and push that forward because they said Raise. Right. And that's the way, I guess it was dramatic. Right. The big. The big dramatic scene. And. And so I think we. We do sometimes get caught up in those moments and. And want to. Want to do things the way that we saw them done in. In those moments. But I know that there's a rule, and I. I think I know what it is. But the fact that the total bet was 56. 50. No, the total bet was $28 and he put 30 out there. That doesn't. That's not the reason that he had to. To raise here, though. It's because he said raise, right?

[Patrick]

Yeah, correct.

[Elliot Schechter]

Because he was obligated to raise. He announced the raise when it was his turn before he placed the chip in the pot. So the obligation's there.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. Even though the putting 30 out there instead of the 28. That does. That's not. That doesn't matter because there's. The rule is, like, if it's over a certain amount, then it's a raise. Or if it's under a certain amount, it's not a raise.

[Elliot Schechter]

All right, say the bet's 28, and you place 30 in the pot without saying anything. You've called the 28. If you would put 50 out, you would be required to bump that up to the 56, the minimum available raise, because you placed half or more of the actual bet in addition to your call into the pot. So, yes, that line does exist. But again, the raise was announced, so that took care of that. Yeah, rather effectively.

[Joe Scales]

And then. And then when you take it to your home game setting.

[Elliot Schechter]

Yes.

[Joe Scales]

It's a whole different. If it's. It's a whole different world. Right. You're playing with your buddies. Sure. And. And I understand you probably should be playing as close to the rules as you can in those moments in those games, but you can't expect all of the same structure, the same kind of feel as your home game when you go to a casino, per se.

[Elliot Schechter]

Yes and no. Obviously, it's going to be much more sociable. Casino games are social games. You're playing amongst other people. Some games are decidedly not sociable. There's a good possibility that not a single player knows another player, especially if it's a tourist city like Las Vegas. The players may all hate each other, so it may not be sociable. So a home game is decidedly more sociable. The players generally do know each other over extended periods, and more than. More than several are probably friends together. So it's much more sociable, in addition to being social. So that is a huge change. And when things are sociable, yes, casual interpretation of rules is. Is generally accepted. And why not? You want to keep things friendly. And as long as there's no malice or cheating or. Or other horrible intent present, then, yes, things are going to go that way, and that's fine. Poker should be fun. But the rules governing the play of the game, whether in a casino or a home game, should be similar, if not identical.

[Joe Scales]

Well, but you can't put a casino, whether it be the dealers or it be the floor staff or whoever, you can't put them in charge of understanding what your intent is. In a home game, it's way different because you've played with them for a long time. Sure, I'm sure that they do know your intent. They do know that this is what you do.

[Elliot Schechter]

And again, and that's. Yeah, I see your point there. The problem is, if they're inviting new players to the game because eventually you need to find new blood and new money and new people, they might not know the intent or they may have different intent and they may intend to exploit it as opposed to actually just going along to get along. So, yeah, that is true. The road to. The road to. Well, the underworld is paved with. Well, we know what it's paved with. So, again, it's better to make things logical and productive rather than maintaining habit. I'm still struck by the one line. Physically building the bet in two quick stacks so that you can move two quick stacks one at a time. Wouldn't one quick stack be better than two quick stacks? It's literally 50% less stacks, which would, by definition, be quicker. So, again, I appreciate the fact that you like to put your call in and then your raise. Those days are done, and I regretfully am the bearer of such bad news. But it's time to get with the times.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, yeah. And. And, Nate, I would say the best thing to do is to get into the practice in your home game of doing it the way the casino is going to rule it, and then you don't have problems when you. When you go back and forth.

[Elliot Schechter]

I think we can explore this a little further. When you're placing multiple stacks out as your bet one at a time, you're keeping everybody's eyes on you. That's not an advantage in poker. That would be a decided disadvantage. You should want everybody's eyes on everybody else. You should be observing everybody else. When you're investing your effort and time into making your own bets and making your actions, you're not focusing on anything else besides yourself and your bets when you should be focusing on your opponents and what they're doing and how they're doing it. So, yeah, you're losing something here. You're losing the chance to make observations because you're so intent on producing your bets this way. So even that little edge can be a help. And in the long run, it's obviously going to play out many times. So, again, as a general theme, you shouldn't want the focus on you if you're winning, you shouldn't want people to notice so you can continue to win. And if you're losing, you wouldn't want people to notice so that they don't exploit it. So, yeah, once again, throwing the focus off you and putting it on everybody else is probably a good thing. And I'm sure my fellow contributors can play on that theme in some way, but it's the absolute truth. You should be giving your opponents an opportunity to give you information as opposed to the opposite.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. If it's something that you're doing all the time in your home game, too. I guess if you're playing with the same people, they may have picked up on some piece of information and, and they're not telling you. I don't know what your home game win rate is, but maybe it improves if you stop doing this. Yeah, that's a fair point. I. I didn't really think about it from that. That standpoint, but yeah, it's not only is it not a common practice anymore or a practice anymore, but it's definitely opens yourself up for more. More tells. You know, similar to when somebody goes through the motions of looking at their cards, then putting the card protector and then, you know, all of that whole process similar to this. You're taking more time, you're. You're having more eyes or the eyes on you longer and giving them an opportunity to pick up on something. So. Yeah, that's a really good point, Nate. I hope you got some. Some good takeaways there, and I hope

[Elliot Schechter]

we didn't discourage you. Yeah, I certainly didn't want that to be the case.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. Hopefully this doesn't. The whole process doesn't discourage you from going back to the casino, because playing with the same group, it's a whole different kind of. Kind of game and a whole different. It's. They have their own separate pieces. Right. I love playing in a home game with my friends and all, but the challenge of a casino is also part of this game of poker that we love. So, yeah, hopefully you work on this stuff in your home game. And if anyone has a call the floor that they would like to know how Elliot would roll, please do send it to podcasty magazine dot com. Elliot, we appreciate you joining us. Another week, very important. We'll see you next week.

[Elliot Schechter]

Looking forward to it. I'll see you then. Let's break it down with Hand of the Week.

[Joe Scales]

Welcome to Hand of the Week, where Patrick, our resident fish, and I dive into listener submitted hands each week. We tackle everything from questionable bluffs to hero calls and the hands that make you scratch your head. Whether you're looking for strategy tips or you just want to see if you would have played it any better, we've got you covered. Patrick, how's it going, man?

[Patrick]

Pretty good, my friend. Yourself?

[Joe Scales]

I'm good. Are you. Are you over the. The talk of snow or Snowmageddon might

[Patrick]

be my favorite thing. I will. I'll be honest with you. I spent a. A embarrassingly large amount of time looking at amateur meteorologists on social media over the last week and a half leading up to that bad boy. So that is. Yeah, I'm all for it.

[Joe Scales]

It. It is funny how everybody becomes a meteorologist when they talk about impending weather.

[Patrick]

Come at me with the euro and the GFS models, and I'll teach you a few things. It's gonna be my second career. It's gonna be my second career. I'm gonna sell my business and then I. And then I'm gonna go ahead and become a meteorologist.

[Joe Scales]

I mean, I think you're already ahead of me because I don't know what you mean by your euro and whatever things you're saying. Models and. So we'll just skip over that. We'll jump into some poker here.

[Patrick]

That works for me. That's something we both know. Whether it's a lot or not, you know, we'll, you know, we'll see. But yeah.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. Well, this week's Hand of the Week is sent in by Dave Miller, and Dave's playing one, two at Wind Creek in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. I like it. Let's go. Road trip. Let's go.

[Patrick]

I like it. Hey, they can't be that far from us, right?

[Joe Scales]

That's what I'm saying. Road trip. We can.

[Patrick]

Look, just go straight up 81. We'll get to PA and then we can find it from there.

[Joe Scales]

I'm sure they have this thing called Google Maps. We can probably find it.

[Patrick]

Hey, when the Internet went out the other week with Verizon.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, we were all struggling.

[Patrick]

Everybody was struggling, let me tell you. You know who got a bump. MapQuest for the first time in 30 years. Honestly, if they were smart. Listen, I'm not condoning going to hack anybody or any kind of illegal activities, but if I worked at MapQuest, I would find a way to bring down a network like that. Because I. My mom was in dc, the greater DC area, on business and visiting my sister, and she called me and I was like. It was right beforehand. She told me what she was doing. I was like, okay, great. Of course, the mark, you know, the. The network was down. She finally found a Starbucks. So she FaceTimes me, which we were still able to do. She was like, I have no idea how to get there. And I'm trying to remember directions every time I get to a new WI fi. I was like, so what are you going from Starbucks to Starbucks just to get to her, you know, her. Her condo. I'm like, this is ridiculous.

[Joe Scales]

So, you know.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

Okay. So my. I have two thoughts on that one. I didn't know MapQuest still existed, so.

[Patrick]

You and me both, pal.

[Joe Scales]

That's. That's number one. But I think it's funny that we went. I'm going to go to MapQuest instead of getting an actual map.

[Patrick]

Well, I mean, is Rand McNally still around with the.

[Joe Scales]

You know, they still make those books with all of the maps in them.

[Patrick]

I would. Let me tell you, I bet big money that every single gas station in America, or at least a large percentage of them, still has a paper map sitting in some corner of some little rack. Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

Yes. And that might be a better solution than going from Starbucks to Starbucks and

[Patrick]

then trying to remember, thank God she doesn't listen to this show. You know, and. And she could. She'd be all over my ass on this one. So anyway, yeah, that was. That was a fun one, you know, a precursor to Armageddon for all you, you know, in today's folks out there. Maybe you're right. So anyway, back to Dave's hand in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, straight up 81 from us. What else do we got?

[Joe Scales]

Dave says he's. He's been there a couple of hours at a table that very often goes with at least half the players in for the flop without a raise. While a raise of only $5 often results in heads up or even everyone folding.

[Patrick]

Okay, that's good background. See, this is the stuff we need, though, right?

[Joe Scales]

Right. He says more than once after the flop. Check through. I made a blind stab on the turn and took it down uncontested. So it sounds like to me like

[Patrick]

a Very uniform, tight game.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. Maybe the most boring game on the planet. I'm all for, for, you know, making some money and, and just taking down blinds and whatnot, but give me some action sometime. Anyway, it's nine handed at this table and Dave is in seat seven. So I have a good view of the other players. He says my $200 buy in is now at about 300. Okay. So at least, I mean there, there's got to be some action happening. He's making some money, he's taking out the block, I guess. I mean, he's only, he's up a hundred after a couple of hours. So that's still pretty good hourly rate, right?

[Patrick]

Yep.

[Joe Scales]

Under the gun limps. We are under the gun plus one with pocket tension. All right, where do we go?

[Patrick]

Well, we're definitely not three betting at this game. Someone might have a heart attack.

[Joe Scales]

Right. Well, we, we have to have a raise before we can three bet, but.

[Patrick]

Oh, that's a good call. Listen, you know, everyone with the terminology. You're right, you're right, you're right. I don't think. Anyway, you're right. I don't know. I'm, I'm so thrown. I, I, I, I guess a raise of $5 is the heads up is, you know, it's telling us something. I don't, I don't even know what to say. I'm at a loss for words. And that never happens. I would say $5.

[Joe Scales]

I don't think it's wise to go huge here. Right. It's, this is a good point about table dynamics.

[Patrick]

Yes.

[Joe Scales]

Wherever and whenever you play, a big raise at some tables is going to be a small raise in others, Right?

[Patrick]

Yep.

[Joe Scales]

And those are things you have to take into account when you're playing somewhere else, somewhere new.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

Poker is not a one size fits all kind of game,

[Elliot Schechter]

so.

[Patrick]

Yep.

[Joe Scales]

I guess as poker players, it's our job to adjust to the players that we're playing against. And it sounds like at this one we don't, we don't need to go big here. Right. So, yeah, I'd probably do exactly what Dave said early on and bet $5 should be enough to get us the heads up against the end of the gun limper. And maybe we get one other loose collar while we fold out the rest. And if it folds around, then great, I guess.

[Patrick]

Yeah, great. Great, I guess is about right. That's kind of what I was thinking too, so. All right. Yeah, that $5 it is.

[Joe Scales]

So Dave raises as well. He says I raised the typical $5. Hoping to get to heads up cheaply. So it sounds like we're all on the same page here. It folds to the cutoff in seat two, who also has about 300. Dave says, I haven't seen him show or even play many hands, but he seems somewhat tight. He makes it 15 and it folds to us.

[Patrick]

So doesn't play a lot of hands tight in a somewhat tight game. And he raises to 15 just so he's sitting on aces. Right. Or kings.

[Joe Scales]

Aces, kings, queens.

[Patrick]

I mean, even jack high queens.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, I'm not folding.

[Patrick]

Well, I'm not folding either. I'm just not. I don't think I'm going to re raise is what I'm getting at.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, that's the main question. Right. Do you4bet or do you just call normally?

[Patrick]

You're so far in my head anyway, Joe, that you just should have assumed that this is what I was referring to. Yeah, I'm just not re raising. I'm just calling.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, I feel like 4 betting is risky because he's not 3 betting light like you said.

[Patrick]

Yeah. And I think if, if any, we'll, we'll see how the plan plays out. Continue. Yes, I'm calling.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, just calling. Then we get to see the flop, right? We get to see play Pretty straightforward from there.

[Patrick]

Yep.

[Joe Scales]

Dave says, although it feels like a position steal with something like ace, king. I merely call after too many ways for 10, 10 to lose. Except the flop is 10. Nine, nine. He says, Yahtzee.

[Patrick]

So I like Dave. I like Dave a lot.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

So we check. We seed bet one of the two. I'm, I'm probably, I'm probably at this table. I'm probably checking if it was any other table, you know, that maybe had a little bit more of a loose feel. Then I'm probably seed betting.

[Joe Scales]

I actually was just thinking a lot of players are going to check here and let the opponents catch up, but feel like if they have aces, which is where we were going. Right. Aces, kings.

[Patrick]

Aces, kings or queens is kind of where my thought is.

[Joe Scales]

We end up losing value if we just check here because tight players are going to check back medium strength hands that make may call. So I want to build the pot. Okay. I'm going to bet small though.

[Patrick]

What was the pot again? It was like what, 30, 31, 35. 35. Okay.

[Joe Scales]

You've got 15. 15 is 30.

[Patrick]

You've got the blinds and the blinds.

[Joe Scales]

So 35 is the pot. Pot. I want to bet super small. Eight. I was going to go 12.

[Patrick]

Okay, wait's, my lucky number. So we're going with eight. And I, and I hope he comes way over the top.

[Joe Scales]

The thing is, I'm not scared of any draws right now. Right?

[Patrick]

Nothing. Not a single thing. Now a jack comes up maybe. But again, I, yeah, continue. I'm not afraid of anything. Feeling froggy today, Joe? I think most people could feel froggy when you're sitting on a boat right out the gate. But you know, what is that song? I'm on a boat. Okay, continue.

[Joe Scales]

After little thinking, I make it 20.

[Patrick]

Okay.

[Joe Scales]

He quickly calls.

[Patrick]

Okay, like that. That's good.

[Joe Scales]

Dave says too quick. Would he re raise pre flop with nines? Is he stringing me along with quads?

[Patrick]

No.

[Joe Scales]

Why do you think no? I mean, it's in this realm.

[Patrick]

It is, but he doesn't play. I mean he is in the cutoff, so there's that.

[Joe Scales]

But I just, he is tight. So the three bet, I mean he

[Patrick]

could make us on anything.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Patrick]

So if he's sitting on aces or kings, then he's got top two pair right now.

[Joe Scales]

Right. Which is, which is why I think it's probably not that's why he quit called. But I, I, I feel like honestly

[Patrick]

if they if heartbreak right now, I would be so very sad.

[Joe Scales]

I feel like if somebody did have quads here though, they would probably at least hem and haul a little bit to try and get you to not think they have quads. Like, I guess I'll call.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

But Dave says I'm starting to feel uneasy until the turn is another nine.

[Patrick]

I'm okay with that. He's not sitting on a nine.

[Joe Scales]

So my, my first reaction was you were worried about quad nines and now it's only going to take 19 to make quads. But then I'm like, yeah, but they probably on a tight player on a tight table probably isn't raising us or three betting us with eight. Ace nine or king nine. What else? 10n98. None of those. Right.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

So I feel pretty good about them not having a nine right now. What do we do with that?

[Patrick]

Well, playing Dave's hand. So what was it? So we went 20 and 20. Right. So that's 40. That's 75 in the pot.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, 70, 75.

[Patrick]

Well, I, I think you continue with where he was at. You know, he went more than a half pot the first time. Maybe right at half pot again, you know, the consistency of it. Maybe we're talking, you know, 40.

[Joe Scales]

Okay.

[Patrick]

Are you, I see the wheels turning in your head right now and it you're gonna.

[Joe Scales]

And you're gonna.

[Patrick]

Let me tell you. I take the words right out of your mouth, Joe. You're going to check.

[Joe Scales]

It's exactly what.

[Patrick]

And you're going to. And you're going to see what our friend over in the cutoff does. Now, the question is, if it's a tight player, you already got a little bit of value, which I appreciate. I mean, that's, you know, that's. That's what we did with the flop. If he checks back, you kind of like, oh, okay, well, damn. But if not, if he comes big, you're calling. If it's just a little bit. Are you raising?

[Joe Scales]

I think I'm probably raising regardless.

[Patrick]

Okay.

[Joe Scales]

I'm looking at this as a check raise opportunity.

[Patrick]

Beautiful.

[Joe Scales]

Okay, so Dave says now I'm feeling a lot better. He probably has an overpayer for nines full and thinks he's good.

[Patrick]

Yep.

[Joe Scales]

So I want to make a teaser bet that may entice him to raise. After thinking for just a few seconds, I bet $35, which is right there, close to me.

[Patrick]

My wine. Yes. Yep.

[Joe Scales]

And he raises to 135.

[Patrick]

You shove, shove, shoving.

[Joe Scales]

It really does.

[Patrick]

Big, big smile on my face.

[Joe Scales]

It really does feel like aces to me. Right?

[Patrick]

It does. 100% feels like aces are kings.

[Joe Scales]

So the only question is, how do we get the rest of his stack? Are they going to be afraid of us having a nine if we shove?

[Patrick]

They probably make us out to have a 9. Much more so than we think he does.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah,

[Patrick]

but I don't necessarily want to see another card. I mean, he's sitting on aces or kings. There's. We still have, you know, there's still three aces or three kings as a possibility out there. Or two if two of each. Excuse me. So I don't want to see one of those.

[Joe Scales]

If another nine comes out, then there's quads on the board and he has the ace kicker.

[Patrick]

Oh, what are you doing? Dooms gloom today.

[Joe Scales]

I'm just making a point of why.

[Patrick]

Why I didn't even think about that. Al, you're right.

[Joe Scales]

It's probably that. That is why I want to raise here. Right. I want to put it all in. It's really only a hundred more if. If my brain is working here. We started with 300.

[Patrick]

Yeah. We went what, 12, 15, 20 is 35, plus another 35 is 70.

[Joe Scales]

And then he made it 135.

[Elliot Schechter]

So just a call is gonna lead

[Joe Scales]

about a hundred more. So go ahead and put it in now.

[Patrick]

Yep.

[Joe Scales]

I don't think aces are folding to us shoving.

[Patrick]

No, I don't think either one. I think Aces or kings? Both. Call.

[Joe Scales]

What about queens or jacks? Are you just dismissing the fact that he might have those hands?

[Patrick]

I am. It's, it's not a very good way to play poker. I'm working on it. I get too set in my ways of like what I think they have, like I'm freaking Notre Damas or something.

[Joe Scales]

I mean it, I, I'm, I'm with you. That, it does feel like aces.

[Patrick]

I'm thinking my, here's my thought. Tight table, tight player, you know, and just the rest of it, I, I'm thinking, I, I. No one likes to play jacks, but we all do. It could be queens. I guess you're right. Doesn't really change anything where I'm at, except for giving you myself one more out, you know?

[Joe Scales]

Right. I mean, here's the thing. Yeah, it's, it plays the same. No matter what it does.

[Patrick]

It plays for seven.

[Joe Scales]

Queens or jacks. It plays the same.

[Patrick]

Now he's sitting on Ace 9. We're going to look like fools, but it is what it is. Looks like a fool before and I'll be fine.

[Joe Scales]

If he has ACE9, then, then Dave's explanation of this player is completely off.

[Patrick]

No, and I, I trust Dave. I don't know him, have never met him, but I trust him.

[Joe Scales]

So if this guy turns over Ace9, I'm blaming Dave.

[Patrick]

Yeah, absolutely. Dave's going straight under a bus. Throwing them straight under the bus.

[Joe Scales]

Dave says, whoa, a hundred more. Why so much? He says, yeah, I was hoping for a raise, but that seems a bit high. It's unlikely that he raised pre flop with a random nine or even ace nine suited. But what could he be thinking? After some thought, I decide he has an overpair and thinks I have Ace 10 or some other lesser pair. As such, he wants me to pay to draw to those hands to beat him. And if that's the case, I'm ahead. Obviously I'm not folding. So my options are call or raise, which would be an all in for just over a hundred dollars. So we had to stack about right then. Although I want to. I'm not sure if he calls a shovel, which I think he has covered. I'm not sure that's true. If it's only a hundred more. I mean.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I think it's only a hundred more. I think he probably does call if

[Joe Scales]

he has aces for sure. Maybe, maybe not, Jax. Maybe I don't. I still Think he calls. But he says, more important, if I call, I'm not sure how the river will affect my action. If I'm right, then a nine will make quads on board. Exactly. And put him ahead. So, see, it's not just me.

[Patrick]

No, it's not. I. Listen, I. There's a song about this. I'm the problem. It's me. I need to open my mind of where this could go. I get so fixated on 1, 2, 3 hands, whatever, that, you know, possibilities. I don't see the bigger picture.

[Joe Scales]

But I will say this, Dave, that's a reason to shove a hundred percent yes.

[Patrick]

If you're thinking that's yes.

[Joe Scales]

A 10 will kill my action and any over card, particularly an ace, will give me a headache. But at the moment I decide, my best response is to call and immediately announce check dark and pray for a blank. I don't like to check dark there. I feel like that's essentially putting us at risk of losing value for sure if it comes a blank and they check back. I mean, I don't like that. Checking dark is one of those things where I feel like there's a time for it. But I don't think this was one of those. I think the question, Dave, to ask yourself there is, are you checking a blank on the river? Any blank for sure. And I don't think the answer there is yes.

[Patrick]

So I don't think so either.

[Joe Scales]

All in. Before that, he says, I'm sure you. He says, I'm sure you both will say I should have shoved. Well, yes, you are correct, Dave. You've been listening long enough to understand. Yes, that is. That is our thinking. The river is a blank. And after being reminded that I checked dark, he goes all in.

[Patrick]

Well, if he shoves, then, then great. Thanks for all your chips, pal.

[Joe Scales]

He says, is there any chance he has a nine?

[Patrick]

I mean, yeah, but very, very, very.

[Joe Scales]

Raise. Pre flop with a random nine even. Ace, nine suited. Well, I mean, we're. We're definitely. We've already put our chips in, so we're calling. After some thought, I take a stack and while pushing it forward, announce, there's only one hand I'm afraid of. This puts a smile on his face. That's bad news for us. They've putting a smile on his face. Dave even says, oh, but he turns over ace. Ace. Dave says, I turn over my tens saying, and that's not it.

[Patrick]

That's. That's not it.

[Joe Scales]

That's not the hand.

[Patrick]

I love it.

[Joe Scales]

His smile quickly goes away. I guess he thought I had Ace, 10 or King. King. I think judging by the way that he put a smile on his face, he probably thought you had king. King.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

He gets up to leave but is called back so we can count the stacks. He had $12 and leaves, disgusted.

[Patrick]

This might be my new favorite. I mean, I know we have recency bias, but Dave Miller, this is great. Well played, sir.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. And I love that he listened long enough to know, to be able to.

[Patrick]

Oh, he knew what we were doing.

[Joe Scales]

Shivering.

[Patrick]

Maybe we shouldn't go to Bethlehem because he clearly has a great read on us.

[Elle]

Right.

[Joe Scales]

But I, I'll say this, though. I. I don't think that's where the mistake was. I think the bigger mistake is checking dark. It's just, it's a necessary risk of losing value to check dark. Yeah. Otherwise, though, well played. It actually. I mean, it ended up the same way as it would have with us shoving the aces. Just aren't folding there. I don't think if they had jacks, kings or queens, I don't think they fold either. Either way. Well done, Dave. Well done.

[Patrick]

Very well done.

[Joe Scales]

I also, just to shout him out a little bit, I always appreciate he's sent in. Dave has sent in numerous hands of the week and call the floors, and we just did a call the floor with him last week. So appreciate you, Dave, sending those in. If anyone has a hand of the week that they would like to see how Patrick and I would play it, send it to [e-mail] Patrick, stay warm and Snowmageddon.

[Elliot Schechter]

It's time for Joe's.

[Joe Scales]

My biggest problem with poker advice online is that usually it has no context, and I think that's dangerous because poker isn't chess. It isn't one correct move that's always correct. Forever. Poker decisions, they live in these little details, right? Stack sizes, position, player types, player history, what stakes are you playing, table dynamics, what stage are you in. In a tournament, all of that makes a difference. But on social media, you'll see a post on there where somebody says, hero has ace, king, flop. Comes this, I did that. What are your thoughts? And inevitably these. These replies come flying in. Snap, shove. Oh, that's an easy fold. Never bluff there or always raise. And they sound confident, but the truth is, without that context, a lot of that advice is basically a guess. What people don't think about is that the same exact hand can be played three different ways, and all three can be right, depending on what we don't know. Is this a one, two, Game where nobody folds top pair? Or is it a, a tougher game where ranges are tighter and people actually think is the villain a calling station? Are they a knit, some kind of maniac? Are we 200 big blinds deep or are we sitting with. With 25 big blinds and every pot is basically for our stack? Is it a tournament where ICM is breathing down our neck or. Or a cash game where we can just reload and keep playing? That's not extra info, that's the whole story. And when you strip the story out, the advice becomes dangerous because it trains players to, to chase the one line rules instead of learning how to think. That's why I do things a little bit different on hand of the week, right? I try to be completely in the dark until I'm reading it to you guys. Because I want my advice to be the same kind of thought process I'd have at the table, not something I've pre baked after seeing results or after scrolling comments or after letting hindsight creep in. At the table, you don't get to pause the hand and ask 400 people. You get a moment, sometimes 30 seconds to take the information you actually have and make the best decision you can. So when I'm reading hand of the week cold, I'm trying to think about what do we know, what do we not know, what can we reasonably assume and what are the options and what are the risks and when we're doing it right, there's still some questions we might think of that we can't answer in that moment. And that's really, that's just the game. Sometimes you don't know if the player is capable of bluffing or if they're overvaluing a hand. Sometimes you don't know if your image is tighter than what you think it is. So you make the best decision you can with the available information and you live with it. That's what real poker looks like. When you submit a hand online or you send in a hand of the week, try to be as precise as possible. Too much info is better than not enough. Give position, give your stack size, give stakes, give your tournament stage. If it's a tournament, give reads and and player history. Tell us what you thought in real time, not what you think after the result. Because the goal isn't for people to tell you what they would do in a vacuum. The goal is to help you build a process so the next time you're in a similar spot, you're prepared. That's today's one outer and that's today's show. I'll see you next week, a team. And until then, I'll see you at the tables.

[Elliot Schechter]

The Ante Up Podcast is a production of Antiopmagazine.com contact the show at podcastsyupmagazine.com or call the show at 540-339-7741. If you'd like to advertise, send an email to editoriop magazine.com.