Chapter 4 Ep. 7 Road to the Top

Summary

Ante Up Poker Magazine – Chapter 4, Ep. 7: Road to the Top

Date: February 28, 2026
Host: Joe Scales
Sections: Table Talk (with Ellen), Call the Floor (with Elliot Schechter), Hand of the Week (with Hank/Patrick), Joe’s One Outer

---

Episode Overview

In this milestone episode of Ante Up, host Joe Scales and guests celebrate reaching #1 in the Leisure and Hobby podcast charts, reaffirm the show’s commitment to everyday players, and discuss major happenings in the poker world. The conversation covers the decline of the LAPC, poker travel, a detailed rules segment with tournament director Elliot Schechter, in-depth hand analysis, and concludes with a reflective “One Outer” segment about being present—at the tables and in life.

---

Celebrating #1: The Community-Driven Road to the Top

[00:48 – 04:21]

• Joe opens by celebrating Ante Up’s climb to #1 in its podcast category.
  • “For the longest time, Ante Up has been sitting at number three, sometimes number four... But as of today, we're number one. Number one.” (Joe Scales, 01:02)
  • He credits the community, not just himself: “That's not me. That's us. That's the community.” (Joe Scales, 01:22)
• Joe underscores that Ante Up is for “the everyday poker player.”
  • Rejects the idea of chasing the high-roller scene: “We’re not high roller crushers flying private from stop to stop. We're the ones squeezing in a tournament after work... grinding 1/3 or 2/5 and loving every minute.” (Joe Scales, 02:10)
  • Praises listeners and urges continued support and sharing.

---

Table Talk: Poker News, Player Realities & Upcoming Excitement

[04:36 – 22:43]

Haircuts, Community Vibes, and the Decline of the LAPC

• Light banter about haircuts opens the segment for table-side, relatable humor among Joe and co-host Ellen.
  • “You're the only person I've ever met that has ever said that.” (Ellen, 05:05 – on Joe disliking hair washing)
• Discussion shifts to the bust of this year’s LAPC Main Event (L.A. Poker Classic) numbers:
  • Pre-COVID: ~500 players; 2024: 50 entries.
  • Both ponder why: loss of WPT affiliation, lack of guarantees, $10k buy-in, increased travel costs, and tightening bankroll reality for most players.
  • Ellen: “For mid-stakes players who would go and take a chance or for high-stakes players, they're still making sure they're playing pots that they want to play.” (07:26)
• The “everyday player” perspective:
  • Both agree they’d rather “spread that out to six, six to eight events” than drop $10k on one shot.
  • Added travel costs and tax law changes make big buy-ins less attractive: “This gambling tax law has changed things for a lot of players. If the fact that you can only claim 90% of your losses...” (Joe Scales, 08:28)

State of Poker: Poker Not Shrinking, Just Shifting

• Joe and Ellen push back on “poker is dying” narratives:
  • “Mistake [mid-stakes] events are exploding right now... guarantees are being hit regularly.” (Joe Scales, 09:16)
  • WPT is thriving globally; more options than ever.
  • Key: growing field of “bankroll conscious” players.

Anticipation Builds: The Ante Up Alaskan Cruise

• Excitement for the upcoming cruise (Aug 11–21) with Ladies International Poker Series and Poker Player Cruises.
  • “It is going to... they are knocking it out of the park. We are going to be on a Princess boat. The Ruby Princess.” (Ellen, 11:01)
  • Reasons to go: smaller ship for deeper Alaskan passage, special booking perks, poker events for every type (tag team, ladies event, main event).
  • Details on booking strategies (flash sales, special perks for first 100 cabins), poker room logistics (on Deck 6), and the push for community: “This is one of those things... this is on our bucket list.” (Joe Scales, 11:45)

Poker Training Opportunities

• Octopi Poker 90 Days for $90 Challenge, aimed at recreational and tournament players.
  • Ellen signs up and highlights its value for “us recreational players”: “This is $100 less than for... less than $100 for 90 days... a different entry point for us.” (Joe Scales, 18:32)
  • Course features: new daily challenge, Discord community, self-paced, not just for online players, “tournament focused so you can walk into the summer season prepared.” (Ellen, 17:22)

Shout-Outs & Studio Changes

• Ellen shouts out the Arizona Women’s Poker Championship.
• Casual mention: new studio decor and family cookie baking, grounding the episode in real-life, home game energy.

---

Call the Floor: Ruling on Raise/Angle Shooting & Tournament Rules

[23:06 – 36:33]
Guest: Elliot Schechter (Tournament Director)

Listener Question: What Constitutes a Raise?

[23:33 – 35:52]

• Hand scenario: Player moves chips forward as if to raise but doesn't release them, pauses, asks about opponent's stack, then pulls them back and just calls.
• Key questions:
  • When does moving chips forward obligate action?
  • Do chips have to touch the felt? Does "the betting line" matter? Is “forward motion” enough?
• Elliot explains:
  • There’s no universal rule; betting lines are rarely hard/fast outside of high-regulation rooms.
  • “Moving chips out and not touching the felt generally doesn't obligate one to a bet... Betting lines are not universal.” (Elliot Schechter, 27:00)
  • Cutting chips into the pot locks those chips, but if not released, it’s not binding.
  • Angle shooting is a real concern, but “very rarely is a move or angle being played.”
  • Emphasizes knowing your room’s rules and always asking for clarification: “The way you combat somebody angle shooting is to know the rules so that you don't react to them in any way.” (Joe Scales, 32:38)
  • “It's good to know whether the betting line is an actual hard fast line or whether it's merely a courtesy line.” (Elliot Schechter, 33:10)

Memorable Quotes:

• “When you define the rules very well and keep adding rules to the rule book, you are very explicitly and more broadly defining the gray area and the places that angles can be, can be shot at.” (Elliot Schechter, 29:16)

---

Hand of the Week: Hero Call vs. Aggression – Hand Analysis

[36:45 – 61:51]
Participants: Joe Scales & Hank (Patrick)

Listener Hand: Submitted by Connor Peek — 2/5 NLHE
Scenario:

• Table composition: PLO regular, “tourist chaos” with drunk bachelor party, one nit, and an aggressive “young player” in the cutoff who’s constantly 3-betting light.
• Connor in MP with A♦Q♣, opens to $20. The aggro villain (cutoff, $680) flats.
• Flop: A♠ 8♥ 5♦ ($47).
  • CBets $30, cutoff calls.
• Turn: 2♠ ($107).
  • Connor bets $70 (“I want to start making it hard for them to make a mistake by just calling.” -Joe, 45:32), villain raises to $200.
    • Both discuss whether to call or fold/raise: “It's fold or call. I think raising is off the table for sure.” (Joe Scales, 48:27)
• River: J♥ ($507), Connor checks, villain bets $350 into $507, leaving $60 behind.
  • Hank: “He's trying to... push us off of this. And if we decide to go ahead and call... I don't think he thinks he has the nuts by any means, and I think he wants some leftovers.” (Hank, 53:15)
  • Joe explains pot odds and break-even bluff percentages for hero calls, giving practical math (“If that's the case, then it's like 29%. So we have to be right about 30% of the time for the call to be profitable.” – Joe, 57:30)
• Connor calls, villain “sheepishly tables the 7♠6♠” (missed open-ender & flush draw).

Key Takeaways:

• The decision tree: Calling is correct versus frequent bluffers; otherwise, fold.
  • “The key is knowing your player pool... Just because somebody showed down a bluff one time does not mean that they're bluffing all the time.” (Joe Scales, 60:43)
• Result: Connor’s hero call is correct; villain was bluffing with busted equity.

---

Joe’s One Outer: “Play the Hand You’re In”

[62:11 – 67:07]

A reflective, motivational monologue on being present—at the table and in life.

• “Did you ever notice how bad poker players are at living in the moment? We're either replaying the last hand or stressing about the next one. We're wired for results.”
• The lesson: Poker, like life, rewards presence more than fretting over past bustouts or future incomes.
• “Living in the moment isn’t soft... It’s discipline.”
  • “Poker punishes you when you’re not present. If you’re still mad about the last pot, you misplay the next one... The shuffle of chips, the first step into a new poker room, the sound of laughter at the table... Those are the in between hands, and they do matter.”
• Encouragement for listeners to embrace the present, whether prepping for Arizona, Alaska, or their own home game.
  • “Play the hand you’re in, and don’t rush through the in-between hands. That’s today’s One Outer.”

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “We're not going to change. We like it here. And honestly, there are a whole lot more of us than there are of the pros out there. That's why this works.” (Joe Scales, 02:30)
• “Mistake [mid-stakes] events are exploding right now... So this doesn't mean poker's shrinking, which I think, I think people love to point to that, you know that love, love to say, well see, poker is dying.” (Joe Scales, 09:16)
• “If you have a question, ask. Ask the question. Get clarification. Make sure you understand the rules.” (Joe Scales, 35:52)
• “Live by the bluff, die by the bluff.” (Joe Scales, 60:04)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:48] – Celebrating #1 and community focus
• [04:36] – Table Talk: News, LAPC, travel, & cruise hype
• [23:06] – Call the Floor: Raise rules & angle shooting (Elliot Schechter)
• [36:45] – Hand of the Week: Hero call & strategy deep dive (Connor’s hand)
• [62:11] – One Outer: Presence at the table and in life

---

Final Thoughts

This episode encapsulates Ante Up’s blend of approachable community, strategic depth, rules expertise, and real-life relatability. It’s a celebration of the everyday player’s mindset and of enjoying poker—whether in hand analysis, at sea, or at home—one moment at a time.

Transcript

[Sal]

Hey, Sal. Hank.

[Hank]

What's going on?

[Sal]

We haven't worked a case in years. I just bought my car at Carvana and it was so easy. Too easy. Think something's up? You tell me. They got thousands of options, found a great car at a great price, and it got delivered the next day. It sounds like Carvana just makes it easy to buy your car, Hank. Yeah, you're right. Case closed.

[Joe Scales]

Buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply. Take

[Podcast Narrator]

your seat. The cards are flying high. Shuffle up and deal at the Aces Lie longest running show. Yeah, we've seen it all. From the river to the rail, we answer the call.

[Joe Scales]

Hello, a team. And welcome back to another episode of the Ante Up Poker podcast, where every hand is an opportunity to every player is a friend, and every episode is a winning experience. I'm your host, Joe Scales, and a team. We did it. For the longest time, Annie App has been sitting at number three, sometimes number four in this leisure and hobby category of podcasts. We've knocked on the door, we've hovered, I've refreshed the charts probably more times than I should admit, but we just couldn't quite climb over that number three spot. But as of today, we're number one. Number one. I'm not gonna lie. When I looked at that this morning and saw us sitting at the top, that was a moment I literally sat there and smiled for a little bit. Because that's not me. That's us. That's the community. Now, even though getting to number one is incredible, staying there, that's the new goal. And we can only do that the same way we got here. So keep doing what you've been doing. Keep telling your poker buddies about the show. Keep sharing it in your home games. Keep leaving those comments and ratings. Every review, every download, every share helps us reach more and more of the everyday poker player. I read an article the other day about knowing your place in your business, about understanding exactly who you are and who you serve. We know who we are. We are for the everyday poker player. We are our audience. We're not high roller crushers flying private from stop to stop. We're the ones squeezing in a tournament after work. We're the ones planning the poker trip months in advance. We're the ones grinding 1, 3 or 2, 5 and loving every minute of it. We're not going to change. We like it here. And honestly, there are a whole lot more of us than there are of the pros out there. That's why this works. We've already had People reach out about meeting up with us in Arizona and we cannot wait to see each and every one of you at Gila river. And, and some of you are cruising with us in August and that's going to be an absolute blast. Poker, glaciers, friends. It doesn't get much better than that. You guys are what makes Andy go. You're what built this thing way before I got here. And you're exactly what got us to number one in the charts. So cheers to all of you. Seriously, thank you for taking the time each week to listen, to engage, to share, to be a part of the A team community. That's all I've got for now. So let's get on with the show. Welcome to the show.

[Podcast Narrator]

You're on the A team. Stack your chips and chase the dream. Joe's got the booth. His mic's on fire.

[Joe Scales]

Ellen, I are back around the poker

[Ellen]

table and you got a new haircut.

[Joe Scales]

I did. I did. I told you on the way home. I don't know what it is about a haircut, but it just makes you feel better.

[Ellen]

It's always a, it can be a stressful thing for women, but once we find the right girl or guy to do our hair.

[Joe Scales]

Fair enough.

[Ellen]

I look forward to it as well. This is like one of our favorite days.

[Joe Scales]

I, I wish I could do without the washing of the hair. That's.

[Ellen]

You're the only person I've ever met that has ever said that.

[Joe Scales]

But other than that.

[Ellen]

Yeah, I, I, There are, there are whole salons around just going to get your hair washed for women, so. I cannot relate. I cannot relate. That is like one of my favorite things.

[Joe Scales]

Maybe it's because I'm the only one in my family with hair. So I'm trying to make sure they don't massage it out.

[Ellen]

Okay. Fair.

[Joe Scales]

But anyway, boy, did you. I'm sure you've seen the, the big talk has been the lapc.

[Ellen]

Yeah. This didn't grab my attention because I didn't know the history because I paid close attention to WSOP and WPT events and MSPT events and of course our Annie Up Tour. There's a lot of different tour stops and events happening.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Ellen]

There is so much poker to be played across the world.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Ellen]

Right. Now that I hadn't heard of this tournament as frequently. So. But, but it, it is a big deal.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. The LAPC used to be the place, the place outside of the World Series to.

[Ellen]

For a $10,000 buy in.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. So, you know, pre Covid, they were getting around 500 players. They had 490 in 2020. Then last year was only 145. This year. Let this sink in for a minute. This year they have 50.

[Ellen]

Yeah. So what is that? Is that just they don't want to travel to LA? Is that $10,000 buy in is not in my bankroll?

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Ellen]

What's the chatter? What's, Because I haven't read all the posts or seen all the articles and

[Joe Scales]

well, there's a lot of things factored in here. One being that this used to be a WPT event. It's not anymore.

[Ellen]

Oh, it's separated. Okay.

[Joe Scales]

And they don't offer a guarantee now is huge. But Also it's a $10,000 buy in and I think people are a little more bankroll conscious. I am lack of a better word.

[Ellen]

That's for sure. You know, I don't know who isn't right now.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Ellen]

I mean honestly, for mid stakes players who would go and take a chance or for high stakes players, they're still making sure they're, they're, they're playing pots that they want to play.

[Joe Scales]

Right?

[Ellen]

I don't know.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Ellen]

Does that sound silly?

[Joe Scales]

No, it doesn't sound silly. I, I, I think you're in the same boat as me. Even if we had the $10,000 to spend on an event, we would rather spread that out to six, six to eight events or right now I would.

[Ellen]

Yes.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Ellen]

100%. And I think travel's getting more expensive. You, you have to factor in eating out hotel, you don't have to eat out the whole time. I mean we all know poke players are eat on the cheap sometimes, but like really and truly, there's a lot more invested in going and playing poker at a destination than meets the eye.

[Joe Scales]

Sure.

[Ellen]

So you're, it's just not a $10,000 trip and we've talked it's way more than that.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. But we've also talked about this with, with other poker room directors that this gambling tax law has changed things for a lot of players. Right. You know, if the fact that you can only claim 90% of your losses

[Ellen]

now, I think there's been some revisions in some states and people that are, that are going to bat for this though.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, there are people that are going to bat for it. Nothing has been passed, nothing's come through to help yet. But they are working on it. But right now that's still a factor. Right.

[Ellen]

So you're going to play lower stakes, take less hits.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, yeah. And plus we've talked about this before on here Just the mistakes. Events are exploding right now.

[Ellen]

Yeah, that's where it's at.

[Joe Scales]

They're massive. Guarantees are being hit regularly, you know so I, this doesn't mean poker shrinking, which I think, I think people love to point to that, you know that love, love to say, well see, poker is dying.

[Ellen]

You can't take one example, look at, look at where it is explained. Floating. I mean the WPT is worldwide now. I mean they are all over the place. I love following Matt Savage and seeing where he's going to be next. Love hearing about his experiences recently in Asia. And where are they now? Oh, this is, this falls on me. I was just watching and the name went right out of my head. But they're, they're everywhere. They're going all over the world. The European debut, I think there is WSOP European event that's going to be happening shortly. That was the chatter this morning. You know, if you got a pick you got a lot more options now.

[Joe Scales]

I just think it's the biggest factor to me and I may be wrong about this because our world is the everyday poker player. So I feel like there are just so many more people that are bankroll conscious and so throwing 10,000 at an event like this is only going to be a select few.

[Ellen]

Well, let's keep our eye out and see what's happening because we do have something that's really exciting that I cannot stop talking about. I'm not going to, I'm not going to stop talking about. Our Alaskan cruise, August 11 to 21. We are partnering with Ladies International Poker Series as well as Poker Player Cruises. The brand new poker Cruising. Brand on the scene.

[Joe Scales]

Brand new but with some familiar faces.

[Ellen]

Yeah. Very experienced dealers, tournament directors, concierge service. It is going to, they, they are knocking it out of the park. We are going to be on a princess boat. The Ruby Princess.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Ellen]

Which is a smaller ship if you look it up. However, the reason we are doing that is because you can go further into the inside passage of Alaska. August is an amazing time to be in Alaska. The more we're researching, the more positives. I made a pros and cons list. It's on my computer. Yeah, there are way more pros of going in August. I know it's back to school, I know it's college, move in. I know it could be a crazy time. You are not going to regret going on this ten day poker vacation.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, poker vacation.

[Ellen]

I mean you're just not.

[Joe Scales]

This is one of those things that so many people have told us this is on our bucket list.

[Ellen]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

So now's the time to do it.

[Ellen]

Surprise. It could be in 2026, and we would love to have you with us. We also have gotten amazing details about our. Our poker room. It's going to be on deck six. So if you want to look at all the plans, it's going to be on Deck 6, next to the elevators, right next to the casino. Poker Player Cruises is working really hard to, like, get maybe a buzzer system. So. Oh, yeah, you're there to sign up for cash or you bust out of a tournament and you want to play cash if you. It's going to be.

[Joe Scales]

Or you're waiting for your tournament to start.

[Ellen]

Yeah. Like, we're all used to looking on poker Atlas and such, that kind of thing. We don't want to expect you to have the WI fi package. So we're going to see if we can't. They are working. I should say they are working to see if they can't get some sort of pager system. So pop over, play some blackjack while you wait to play cash. First hundred cabins are supposed to get something special.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Ellen]

Um, and let me just tell you, we're a third of the way booked. So if you are considering this, reach out to us. If you have any questions, call Poker Player Cruises, get online and do your research. Not to mention there's flash sales this weekend.

[Joe Scales]

I was gonna say one going on right now.

[Ellen]

Yeah. You want a balcony room, there's a massive sale. If you take the flash sale, I'm gonna give you one caveat warning. You don't get to pick your room. But if you're getting a balcony room, I don't know that there are back ways.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Ellen]

So if you want to take a really gamble on your room, take the flash sale. Thank you so much. Take the flash sale deals. Sign up for emails from Princess Cruises. I'm finding out about a new one, like every four, three, four days. They're running something. When you call Poker Player Cruises to book, let them know you are with auntie up. And then also, if there's a flash sale, be sure. And you want to take a risk on not being able to pick your room. Tell them.

[Joe Scales]

Tell them.

[Ellen]

Yeah, I know I sound like a broken record. I'm just trying to get it out there.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. We're going to have four full C days, which means nonstop poker while we're at sea.

[Ellen]

Yeah. And I think there's a welcome party and I think poker kicks off like 45 minutes after we start moving. We're going to go into the Golden Gate Bridge, too.

[Joe Scales]

Okay, that's fair. We're leaving from San Francisco, so. Yep. Makes sense. Yes. I didn't think about that, but yeah. So Golden Gate Bridge, glaciers, we'll see all the wildlife. I mean.

[Ellen]

Yeah. The excursions that you can book off of the cruise when we're hitting those certain port dates are going to be really fun. There's going to be a tag team event, there's going to be a ladies event, there's going to be an anti up main event. Plan to have fun.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Ellen]

That is. And meet people.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Ellen]

Meet more poker players. And that's the thing.

[Joe Scales]

You're going to see a lot of the same faces that you've seen before, whether it's the staff or players. Right. But also new. New players and new faces. Because with this new venture, you know, we're joining with, like you said, lips, and we're joining with Poker Player Cruises.

[Elliot Schechter]

Right.

[Joe Scales]

So it's going to be some new people, but there's going to be a lot of those same faces. And it's all about community.

[Ellen]

It is, it is. And I'm excited to get there and go on vacation.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Ellen]

Just honestly, I'm really looking forward to it. I'm really looking forward to unwinding. We can't be offline, but. No, but we still have a podcast to put out. We're doing a podcast from the.

[Joe Scales]

That's going to be. We've. We've put the podcast out in a lot of places. Yeah. Never from a cruise ship.

[Ellen]

Or Alaska.

[Joe Scales]

Or Alaska. But also, if you want to brush up on some poker before you head out.

[Ellen]

Yeah, I'm cruise. Yes. This is something that I also. We cannot not mention.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Ellen]

Octopi Poker is doing a training 90 days for $90. I'm signing up today.

[Joe Scales]

I'm going to do some math here. Hold on. Um, that's what, a dollar a day?

[Ellen]

90 days. 90 days, $90. Let me just tell you, there was a free. Which you can go back and watch this on YouTube. Like a YouTube live today.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Ellen]

It was 10am Pacific. One full hour of walking you through what is going to be happening for the entire 12 weeks, how it's going to be scheduled all of the tools on Octopi Poker that you are going to get to have at your fingertips. There is a new challenge every single day. There's going to be a Discord community, which some people are like, yeah, I've been on Discord. Nobody's talking. You have to participate.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Ellen]

You can't just be a observer in a discord channel.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Ellen]

I am doing this. I'm excited. I'm a little overwhelmed because there's an assignment every single day.

[Joe Scales]

However, if you don't get to one, they give you another day. I mean it's not like it disappears.

[Ellen]

It's self paced and there is a, there is a instruction every Friday and then there is a new challenge or a new lesson that's like assigned or released every day.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. And there's, there's some prizes that they're giving away for.

[Ellen]

Yeah. They're not sure what those are yet. But listen, Oxpod delivers. So I'm not even worried about that. I'm not worried about the prizes. I am excited because the focus of this is not just online player.

[Hank]

Right.

[Ellen]

Because that was, that was a big question. It is, it is sharpening your poker game in general. If you're playing poker in person, live or online, it's still poker. You are still having to adjust or predict your opponent. And so that's what Matt was saying today is it's really increasing your game. And the whole hope is this is tournament focused is so you can walk into the summer season prepared. I'm. I'm saying I'm walking onto that cruise prepared.

[Podcast Narrator]

Yeah.

[Ellen]

And excited to possibly participate in some bluffers tournaments that are happening online.

[Joe Scales]

We haven't done that yet, but yeah.

[Ellen]

Because I'm trying to get to win a seat out to, to maybe play in a lift tournament. We'll see. But long story short, I'm ready to study and I think this is an easy bite weight, bite sized way because I've been overwhelmed.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Ellen]

Where do I go?

[Joe Scales]

I'll say this, you know. Yeah. I'll say this. For a lot of us recreational players, right. A hundred dollars a month is a lot of money to invest in learning.

[Ellen]

It can be. Yes.

[Joe Scales]

So this is $100 less than for. Yeah. Less than $100 for 90 days. Yeah. Three months. So it's a different entry point for, for us and it sounds like a great structure for, for novice and intermediate players as well. So I'm, I'm excited. I want to see how this, how this looks.

[Elliot Schechter]

For sure.

[Ellen]

I'm nervous, but I'm looking forward to it. I'm only nervous because I haven't done super steady.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. This will be for sure. This will be your first foray. But I think that, that it's good that you learned the game, you've gotten comfortable with the game and now you're ready to take that next step.

[Ellen]

Well, Cause I can feel it.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Ellen]

Even. Even at our home game when we had two tables going last week. That was hilarious. And I was a ping pong ball making pizza rolls and herding dogs around and you know all that. But I'm, I'm learning how to host and not have to feel like I have to do anything. I don't know if you guys ever host a home game and you feel like, oh my gosh, I gotta do all this stuff all the time. You know what, just make it easy on yourself, like get all that stuff done in advance. I did. I did pretty well until about halfway through and then everybody's getting hungry, so.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Ellen]

But anyhow, I digress. I'm at a point where I know there's more I need to know, but I don't know what I don't know.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Ellen]

And I'm getting frustrated. So it's been a really good challenge for me up until this point. But now what I'm doing is not working.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Ellen]

And now I'm getting a little bit peeved.

[Joe Scales]

But. But you are starting to think about the game differently and this is going to help you grow that part. So I think it's huge. It's going to be huge for you. I think it's good for listeners.

[Ellen]

Yeah. Well. And the 12 weeks is laid out where it's not going to be. I think some of these study courses have made have been overwhelming to me because it's like they just jump right into. I see him and I'm like, I don't know that that's. I need some bites. And it's like the first two weeks is going to be getting used to how to use the platform and how to do the challenges and how to get on the chat boards and all that stuff, like really just basic things, pre flop study, that kind of thing. And then it's going to build. So the whole point, by the time

[Joe Scales]

you get to week three, then they're full on it.

[Ellen]

Yes. So we're not spending a long time walking into the pool, but we're also not getting pushed off in the deep end. And that's what I needed.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's, it's. I'm, I'm really interested to see how this works out and keep us posted here on, on the podcast too, so that people can see. Maybe keep, keep an eye out on the socials. You might be putting some stuff out there as well, but.

[Ellen]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

What else?

[Ellen]

We have shout out to all my ladies getting ready to play in the Arizona Women's championship. It's happening.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Ellen]

They're on their way. If you go to WPA's socials, there's a lot of good info out there right now for signups, that kind of thing. I think it's at Talking Stick.

[Joe Scales]

Okay.

[Ellen]

This year. And so I'm going to be paying close attention.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. See if you know any of those

[Ellen]

names, see what's going on. I think there's some fun stuff going on Foxwoods this weekend. That's my chatter.

[Joe Scales]

Okay.

[Ellen]

I'm excited. That's what I've been hearing from the everyday ladies where they're headed this week.

[Joe Scales]

I'm excited because we're adding something to the studio this weekend.

[Ellen]

Oh, yeah. And you're going to be hanging them.

[Joe Scales]

Wasn't going to tell them. Oh, but cats out of the bag.

[Ellen]

I know. Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

It's going to be back here. We're going to be able to have some fun with that, with some different things behind us. And so. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that.

[Ellen]

I think you're also looking forward to the fact that all of our grandchildren are coming to make cookies on Saturday. So there's going to be a lot of sweet treats in this house I can eat.

[Podcast Narrator]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. For sure.

[Ellen]

Yeah. So.

[Joe Scales]

But with all that in mind, as always, it's a pleasure being around the table with you.

[Ellen]

Likewise.

[Podcast Narrator]

Wisdom cuts like a blade Dropping true bombs with a parade big blinds, big STs, raise it up, let's make no

[Joe Scales]

Elliot Schechter joins us each week to say how he would rule on situations that come up in your games. And he's with us again this week. Elliot, how's it going, man?

[Elliot Schechter]

Oh, thanks. Are going pretty well. Thanks. Doing nicely. How you doing today?

[Joe Scales]

Good. You know, we got a little taste of the warm weather and then gone. So I'm in hibernation mode again. So

[Elliot Schechter]

sorry to hear that.

[Joe Scales]

It gives me more time to catch up on podcasts like this one. So we have a call the floor this week sent in by Max Durham. He says, I'm playing a local tournament. Blinds are 1, 2 with a 2K big blind dandy. I have about 85K stacks says he's got about 85,000 and Villain has him slightly covered. Action folds to me and I open for 5k and it folds to the big blind who tanks for a bit before grabbing a tall stack of 1K chips. About 20 of them, he says, clearly more than a call. He moves the stack forward toward the middle, starts to lower them. He's about to put them into the pot but they never touch the felt. He pauses while still holding them in the air and asks me how much I'm playing. I don't say a word. I just lift my hands off the felt so he can see my stack. He studies my chips for a little bit, then pulls the stack of 1k chips back, back to his own stack and says, okay, I just call. He puts that stack down and throws out 3k more to complete the total to 5000. The dealer says nothing. Action proceeds. But he has some questions here. So this is more of a rules question. He says, what constitutes a raise? Do chips have to touch the felt? Does crossing the betting line matter, which we've talked about before, or is forward motion enough? He says, I felt like this was an angle attempt, but wasn't sure of the rules enough. So didn't say, didn't call the floor, but after the fact, I thought maybe I should have. What do you think? So he's, he's got a lot to kind of sort out there. Let's start with what actually does constitute a raise. Like at what point does all of those, you know, that stack of chips, what. At what point is that considered? He's making a raise when they're moved

[Elliot Schechter]

forward and left on the table. Betting lines are not universal. Moving chips out and not touching the felt generally doesn't obligate one to a bet. Especially in rooms without a betting line. Even in rooms with a. With a better se. With a betting line, it's not a hard and fast line in most places. It's generally a courtesy line, which makes you put your bets out far enough that people can see them separated from your stack and they're close enough to the dealer for the dealer to reach them. So very rarely is it a hard and fast action line. It's generally a courtesy line. And going through the TDA rules, this very specific action is not covered, especially heads up if the chips don't hit the table. Generally there's no bet or obligation of a bet.

[Joe Scales]

So playing double devil's advocate here, sure. Those times when somebody picks up a big stack of chips, they go out to the middle and they just start cutting out chips and then they pull back however many they have left and they set them down. There's no, there's no rule against that. There's no way of, of keeping them from, from just keep putting chips out until they get a reaction or something like that.

[Elliot Schechter]

Well, if you're cutting chips into the pot, especially forward of your stack, you can't take back any of the Chips that were cut, you can only take back the chips that were not cut into the pot. So there's only so much reaction you can't get. Some people try to elongate this procedure to get a reaction, but again, they're still putting chips in the pot. It's still their 10. The key is if there's a, if there's an actual pause. And once again, this is much less applicable. Heads up. This is multi way when you're trying to get a read on people who haven't yet acted on their hand.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Elliot Schechter]

I mean, it's pretty common to get a read on the guy who's put the bet out. You want to see how they're going to react to a raise or not. And yeah, that happens. Sometimes it's right and sometimes it's not right. But that rule again, is not universal. In some rooms, once you move forward with chips, all the chips in your hand have to play. And in some rooms, you move forward with chips and you just get to cut out the amount of the wager. So again, that's not hard and fast. And let's face it, it's very hard to pick up the exact amount of chips you need to put into the pot to constitute a call. If somebody bets, say they bet 12,000. Well, it's hard to pick up exactly 12 chips. And if you're taking the time to count out exactly 12 chips, you're wasting time. It's easier to pick up the whole stack, count, cut out 12 and bring them back. That's fast. It expedites the game. It's fair. Very rarely is a move or angle being played. So again, it doesn't always have to apply that when you move forward with chips, all the chips have to play. There's a lot of cases to be made against that particular rule. And there are plenty of cases to be made in favor of the rule. I mean, again, and it all has to do with reaction string betting, angle shooting. That is the drawback to having a broad set of codified rules. When you define the rules very well and keep adding rules to the rule book, you are very explicitly and more broadly defining the gray area and the places that angles can be, can be shot at. So again, this is certainly in that category and this is a pretty blatant abuse of one's ability to get a read. I mean, it would have been more reasonable to ask what the betting player had behind before any chips were moved forward. That's much more reasonable. And I would hope that whoever was running the tournament and noticed would have said something to the player away from the table. Again, that's not adding anything to the game and doesn't really need to occur on a regular basis.

[Joe Scales]

Right. And, and that's to the point here that he makes at the end. He didn't call the floor, but after the fact that thought maybe he should have. I don't know that. And, and you, you jump in here too. But I, I don't know that he needed to necessarily call the floor for that. But at least, you know, ask for a clarification of that rule. Like if you're not, if you're not clear what the, what constitutes betting, there's no harm. Especially, you know, after the hand's over, you can say, so just curious, just so I'm clear, just so I'm understanding what constitutes a bet in that situation. Is it going across the line? Is it dropping the tips, whatever. There's. There's no harm in asking a question after the fact.

[Elliot Schechter]

Darn right. Yeah. Feel free to go up to the floor and ask. It's definitely good to have the clarification and to make sure that if what happened shouldn't have happened or should have been policed a little better, then, yeah, the tournament directors need to know about it. If it's a pretty laissez faire room. And generally that's pretty common too, especially in Las Vegas. The floor is going to say, hey, his chips didn't hit the pot. It's still his turn to act. He's acting. So. Yeah. But you still would like to get clarity in the moment.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Elliot Schechter]

So, yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. Please. I mean, that's absolutely part of our job as tournament directors and operators is to have these conversations, let people be heard and give the right advice and consultation.

[Joe Scales]

I feel like if you think something is an angle, the way you combat somebody angle shooting is to know the rules so that you don't react to them in any way. If you know that he doesn't make a bet until he lays those chips down, then you're not going to give him any information.

[Elliot Schechter]

Exactly.

[Joe Scales]

So the more, you know, NBC or something.

[Elliot Schechter]

Yes, it is. I can't remember the actual jingle, but yes, that is exactly it. And again, it's good to know whether the betting line is an actual hard fast line or whether it's merely a courtesy line. It's good to know those things. And it's never printed on the felt and it's almost never in the actual printed rules on a tournament format sheet. So those are Good things to ask. Those are good things to check with, even if you're just asking the dealer before the cards get in the air. Forward motion, again, is more of a multi way thing because generally it applies when player A bets player, player B is moving forward with chips but hasn't done anything and player C is calling.

[Joe Scales]

Right.

[Elliot Schechter]

So his forward motion, especially in a limit game, is gonna be counted. And in no limit may not be counted at all. Because let's face it, in no limit, it's especially important that somebody's hand is somebody's turn in the betting does not end until they have completed their bet. Because obviously they can bet any amount and limit. That doesn't matter. They can only bet one amount or a raise to two bets or three bets. So again, forward motion is definitely not going to be identical across the, the various games. But how does forward motion get enforced? So, yeah, those are good things to know.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, yeah. And so it sounds like in this case there probably was no, no rule broken per se. It may have been an angle that they were trying to shoot here, but knowing the rules helps you combat that. And so, yeah, you should probably talk to the floor, even if it's after the fact, and get a clarification. And that also allows them to keep an eye on the player and say, oh well, he's pushing that limit. Maybe I need to have a little conversation with him.

[Elliot Schechter]

Absolutely.

[Joe Scales]

But yeah, Max, that's, that's a good, good point. I appreciate, appreciate you sending that in because it's always good to get. I don't know how many times we can reiterate that. It would be enough. There's not enough times that we can say, if you have a question, ask, ask the question. Get clarification. Make sure you understand the rules.

[Elliot Schechter]

Absolutely.

[Joe Scales]

That doesn't mean stop the action and call the floor every time that you know, you think you were wronged. But at least whether it be after the, after the hand or whatever, ask the questions, get clarification and know what should and shouldn't be going on.

[Elliot Schechter]

Absolutely.

[Joe Scales]

That's, that's a good one, Max. I appreciate you sending it in. If anyone has a call to the floor that they would like to know how Elliot would roll, send it to podcastnetmagazine.com and Elliot, thanks again.

[Elliot Schechter]

You're welcome.

[Joe Scales]

We'll see you next week.

[Elliot Schechter]

Looking forward to it.

[Podcast Narrator]

Patrick's a fish, but he's learning fast. He's all in. This hand might be his last.

[Joe Scales]

Welcome to Hand of the Week where Patrick, our resident fish, and I Dive into listener submitted hands. Each week we tackle everything from questionable bluffs to hero calls and the hands that make it scratch your head. Whether you're looking for strategy tips or you just want to see if you would have played it any better, we've got you covered. Patrick, how's it going, man?

[Hank]

Quick nod. You know, this is absolutely a poker podcast, so we don't talk about other sports on here at all. Cheers to the U.S. men's and women's hockey team.

[Joe Scales]

Absolutely.

[Hank]

Taking down the. Our. Our friends fol. Whatever you want to call them, from the Great White North. You know, listen, you guys had one sport and one sport only, and you invented hockey, and we appreciate you inventing it, and now we own you. So cheers.

[Joe Scales]

We own you. Yeah. It was a cool moment to see them bring out the Johnny jersey. Yeah. And. And paying homage to. To him. But, yeah, that. That very cool. Congratulations to USA Team, both men and women's. And. Yeah, let's jump into.

[Hank]

Awesome. It's great weekend. Yeah, absolutely. What do we got?

[Elliot Schechter]

Who.

[Hank]

Who. Who do we got first?

[Joe Scales]

This one's sent in by Connor Peek.

[Hank]

Okay.

[Joe Scales]

And Connor is playing 2 5, no limit hold'.

[Podcast Narrator]

Em.

[Joe Scales]

He says, I had been playing PLO only the last few months, but the game was full, so I joined the hold' em table. He says I may have been a little rusty. And the table was pure tourist chaos with four drunk guys on a bachelor party, one knit, and a younger player in the Cutoff who's been 3 betting any 2 cards all night. Hey, I think you've been playing against one of those recently. We just talked about this.

[Hank]

Yeah, yeah, sure did get one of those. And it wasn't a three bet. It was just. And they were calculated, I'll give him that. But it was whatever came out of his fingers as he's over there shuffling chips. So, you know, if you're listening, you know who you are. You sat at the table the other night for four minutes and said, hey, I need to buy back in. So there's.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, Yeah. I think in this case, he probably just saw an opportunity with the. With the drunk players and the knit at the table. And. And so I don't blame him a bit.

[Hank]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

Connor says he's already shown down king five suited as a three bet bluff and seven deuce as a bluff raise.

[Hank]

Saw a couple of those.

[Joe Scales]

The table is laughing every time he tanks because they know what's coming. He says, I have about $720 in this hand and am in the middle position when it folds to Me with the ace of diamonds, queen of clubs.

[Hank]

All right, remind me, did he say where that. That three better is?

[Joe Scales]

He said he was in the cutoff, so. Cut off. Exactly. I was like, I'm targeting that young kid.

[Hank]

Yeah, that's where I'm going. Right. I mean, I'm gonna sit there and be jolly with the drunken idiots, but. Well, that's a good question, Joe, and I'm gonna actually let you. Normally, you let me go first on this one. I've. I've written down what I'm gonna bet, so I won't change. But.

[Joe Scales]

So you've already written it down. Okay. All right.

[Hank]

So my, The, The. The question on the table to you is do you target him in the sense of coming over the top? Do you check into him? I mean, you've already said you're going to target him.

[Joe Scales]

Well, we can't check. We gotta. Well, I know that it's called it to us.

[Hank]

Correct. Are you. Are you targeting him or are we. Are we going back at him or are we just.

[Joe Scales]

So we've got it. We've got a really great hand, and I'm going to try and get him to three. Bet me. So I'm going to open small, then hope that he raises small.

[Hank]

Like 15.

[Joe Scales]

15 is exactly what I was looking for, yet I'm going 15. Nice. So, yeah, I'm going 15 looking for him to raise. Now, the question that I pose to you, if he does come over the top, do you want to call or do you want to for bet?

[Hank]

You know, that's a very good question. And I would say I personally would probably call whether it's right or wrong, but I would probably call it.

[Joe Scales]

I'm. I'm making this move with the intention of four betting if he. If he. Three bets. So let's see what Connor does. Connor opens for $20.

[Hank]

Okay.

[Joe Scales]

And the only. The cutoff calls. So he didn't come over the top. He just called, and he says he has about $680 in his stack before making the call. So the pot is $47, and the flop is the ace of spades, eight of hearts, five of diamonds. Connor says dry as the Sahara. All right, who do you think?

[Hank]

Good kicker, pushy action. 30.

[Joe Scales]

Okay.

[Hank]

Maybe actually a little less, because if. If this guy is notorious for that, let's go a little bit less and invite it.

[Joe Scales]

That's what I was thinking.

[Hank]

20.

[Joe Scales]

That's where. That's exactly what I was thinking.

[Hank]

See, the fact that this is what I was getting at earlier, Joe, when I'M sitting here, I can think through it. But when I'm sitting at the tables, man, I just get. I just keep going.

[Joe Scales]

All the thinking goes out the window.

[Hank]

Yes, well, that or it's just too much thinking. One of the. One of the two. All right, so we're on the same page. 20. I like that.

[Joe Scales]

The fact that he just called. The fact that he just called makes me think he has some fun hands that he wanted to get into the mix with. He didn't want us to fold, so. Makes me think of suited connectors, um, suited Broadway cards, maybe some medium pairs in there. So if we check here, then I feel like that's saying, oh, we're super strong, and we get the check back. Because this is a typical C bet situation. So if we don't do that, then it just sends alarm bells off. I feel like. Right, so bet the $20 and hope that they come along or raise. Connor went with your first number. He bets 30. And our villain just calls.

[Hank]

So it is fine too. I mean, I. You know.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. I mean, the fact that he called is. Is good because I still feel like we're. We're ahead. The pot is $107. The turn is the two of spades. So the board is ace of spades, eight of hearts, five of diamonds, two of spades. It's a second spade. And three, four makes a straight. Now,

[Hank]

see, there's a great point right there. All I saw was 3, 4. Didn't even dawn on me about the spades. I gotta use this big old brain of mine. Okay. That being said, I. I mean, I feel like, you know, playing Connor's hand, I feel like you lean into him again, you know, 107. I. I'm going less than half pot. I mean, I'm still very pretty confident, so I'm probably going. I mean, playing Connor's handy bet. 30. So I would say probably 45, maybe right at 50, if you wanted to.

[Joe Scales]

Well, I'm thinking I definitely still want to put money in here, but now that so much more has opened up, then I want to start making it hard to giving. Making a decision hard for them and making them make a mistake by just calling.

[Hank]

Gotcha.

[Joe Scales]

So I definitely think it would be a mistake to, like, check for pot control or something like that. But I'm probably going a little bit bigger now, like 65, 10. Because another point to that, if. If we check here and he bets big, right? Then we're in a guessing game. But if we bet and they raise, it's a whole Lot easier to interpret.

[Hank]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Couldn't have said it better myself. Checking here and, you know, if you catch another check, then so be it. I mean, I guess that, you know, maybe kind of leans into your pot control, but if you. You check here and you catch a, you know, a 65, 75 pot bet, then you're literally just going, okay, well, you could have anything, you know, and.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, exactly.

[Hank]

Seven deuce, unsuited. I. This definitely tells you a lot more. You know, you consistently continue to tell the story, you push limits a little bit, and you push him to the edge. So, yeah, I like that.

[Joe Scales]

Connor goes even bigger than I did. He bets 70.

[Elliot Schechter]

Okay.

[Joe Scales]

In parentheses, he puts continued value. Villain raises to 200. Connor says, tough spot right here. Top pair, top kicker on a dry board versus. It's not so dry anymore, but versus a guy who loves to raise light sets, two pair, straight draws, pure air that he thinks could get us a fold. All of those make sense to me. What do you want to do with that?

[Hank]

That's a really good question. There is a lot more on here. I. I mean, don't get me wrong. I. A straight could have gotten there, but I don't think I'm coming back over the top, even though I know you are.

[Joe Scales]

I'm not, actually.

[Hank]

Oh, really? Okay. Well, I'm just calling.

[Joe Scales]

I was. I was just kind of formulating what I was going to say here, and I think three. I think coming over the top is bad because then we just fold out bluffs. We get called or shoved on with sets or better, and then we're kicking ourselves for overplaying. Top pair.

[Hank]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

So I think raising is off the table for sure. It's fold or it's call.

[Hank]

Yeah, I. I think. I think I'm comfortable enough to call against that kind of player, knowing that.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah.

[Hank]

I mean, he could be sitting on 3, 4. I think if another spade comes out, and depending on how things play out, I don't mind folding that one. You know, if any combination of, you know, three, four, six, you know, anything around those numbers, you know, we'll see. I'm calling, though.

[Joe Scales]

Well, the other side to what you're saying is if we call here, then the pot's going to be over $500.

[Hank]

Yep.

[Joe Scales]

And neither one of us are going to have 500 in our stack.

[Hank]

No.

[Joe Scales]

So it sets up a river shove, which basically means if we call here, we're playing for stacks.

[Hank]

So you're thinking now, are you changing your thought process? Are you telling me that I should make sure I think about this.

[Joe Scales]

I'm just, I'm just throwing out the possibilities here. Aggressive players.

[Podcast Narrator]

Aggressive.

[Joe Scales]

Especially ones that show bluffs are typically doing so in order to get paid when they have it. Right? Yeah, but the, that two of spades, that didn't change anything, really. I don't see them having 3, 4.

[Hank]

I really am not either.

[Joe Scales]

I, I, I think if we fold here, what are we continuing with if we're folding here? Right. Ace, king, ace, king only. That's too exploitable, maybe. Connor tanks and calls. Pot now is $507. Connor says, I have about 450 left. Villain has about 410 left. And the river is the jack of hearts. So the board is ace of spades, eight of hearts, five of diamonds, two of spades, jack of hearts.

[Hank]

Well, then, well, then. I, I mean, top pair, close to top kicker. I, Spades aren't there, Hearts aren't there. The guy's not holding 3, 4. Maybe he's got pocket eights. Maybe. I, you know, I feel, I feel like, you know, before this came, that he could have been holding ace, jack, you know, queen, jack, maybe. I'm thinking, I'm thinking the only two things that beat us realistically are ace, jack, or eight. And I don't know that I, he has either one, but I might, I might check here with a. I'm just gonna call. And if I lose a little bit

[Joe Scales]

of value, be the one to put the money in here first. Because if we're, if we do, if we bet now and he's bluffing, then we kind of let him off the hook. Right? Because then he can fold.

[Hank]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

If we check and he's bluffing, then he may shove. And if he jams

[Hank]

and we got a decision to make here in a second.

[Elliot Schechter]

Call.

[Hank]

Yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna feel great about it, but I'm still gonna probably do it. I check.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. So check. Check. Connor also checks Villain bets 350 into 507, leaving himself $60 about behind. If he's called, Connor says, another tough spot. Do you hero call. Top pair, top kicker, against the sessions. Biggest over, better.

[Hank]

Why does he keep saying top kicker?

[Joe Scales]

You're right. It's not the top kicker.

[Hank]

It's a good kicker. Let me tell you. I'm not calling you out because I get called out every single week. Joe and I have a laundry list of complaints about how Patrick uses terminology wrong. I just want to make sure I wasn't missing anything. So I'm not calling you out. I'm calling again. I don't think he's got, I mean, if ace Jack gets there, I gotta see it.

[Joe Scales]

Let me ask you this. What do you make of the $60 left behind?

[Hank]

A lot, actually.

[Joe Scales]

Okay, say more.

[Hank]

He's trying to, in my humble opinion, push us off of this. And if we decide to go ahead and call because he's got, you know, king, queen and never hit anything of spades or. Yeah. I don't think he thinks he has the nuts by any means, and I think he wants some leftovers.

[Joe Scales]

So you think he's doing it for protection of himself, like, so he's not all in.

[Ellen]

Correct.

[Joe Scales]

Okay. In a lot of spots. I think this usually means that it's a bet for value, because if someone is bluffing, then they tend to go all in or just give up.

[Hank]

Yeah, but that's a big value bet if you're just leaving yourself 60 out of 410. Right. What you. If you're, if it's a value, wouldn't it be lower?

[Joe Scales]

Well, if, if his, if his goal, if he's bluffing and his goal is to get us off of the hand, then he's gonna want to put all of his chips to use to make that happen. And $60 isn't necessarily gonna help him later. Like, I, I, in a lot of cases, it's, it's more, that shows that it's more for value than for a bluff. However, that's the only part of this equation that gives me hesitation. We were all expecting this dude to raise, right?

[Elliot Schechter]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

And when spades turn into an actual draw and then a straight draw gets there, even though it's not a good one, it's all that he needed to try to steal the hand. Is that what he was doing here? I don't know. It's a close one, but I'm leaning. I do want to do something with you, though, Patrick.

[Hank]

Okay.

[Joe Scales]

Get you to look at this from a math standpoint.

[Hank]

Totally break out my Excel spreadsheet.

[Joe Scales]

No calculator. Because I want you to do this just like you're going to be at the table.

[Hank]

All right.

[Joe Scales]

And we're not going to go through all of the math reasoning part of it, but.

[Hank]

Okay.

[Joe Scales]

We can do that off of the air if you want to do that.

[Hank]

Fair.

[Joe Scales]

But what percentage of the pot is the $350 into? 507. I75ish if you, if you. To make it easy. But yeah, I mean, you're close. If you take the 300 into 500, right. If you just round them, then it's around 60%. 400 into 500 is about 80%. So it's about 70 because it's in that middle. Right. This is where some of the memorization part of it will help you as well. So write these down and bring them into every hand of the week until you know them by heart. Quarter pot. If somebody bets a quarter pot, you have about 16% equity or you need about 16% equity.

[Hank]

Okay.

[Joe Scales]

Third pot, you need about 20% equity. Half pot, it's about 25, two thirds pots, about 29%. Three quarter pots, about 30%. Pot size is about 33%. And what else do we have? If somebody over bets the pot like two times the pot, then you need about 40%. And what we have here is what about a two third size pot bet, right?

[Elliot Schechter]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

So if that's the case, then it's like 29%. So we have to be right about 30% of the time for the call to be profitable. Does that change your mind at all in this particular case?

[Hank]

Actually, a little bit, yeah. Look, when you put it like that. Yeah, I, I think it does a little bit. I put. Yeah, I think it does a little bit. But again, I think, you know, and you can, I don't make them on 3, 4. I really don't think it's an ace jack, but it's definitely within the realm. Eights are there. I really think it was, you know, I, I, like I said, you know, a king, queen, even a king, jack, king, 10 of spades. They kept it going, they missed. And I think I'm still making this call.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah. What you have to look at is, is this person bluffing 30% of the time? And it sounds like he's capable of doing that, right?

[Hank]

It does.

[Joe Scales]

So in this case, I probably make the call, but also know that against a 2, 5 player, I find a fold here most of the time because turn, raises and the river follow through are way under bluffed at this level. So normally I'm probably folding, but in this particular case, I'm probably calling. Connor ends up making the call as well. And the villain in quotes sheepishly. Tables. The seven of spades, six of spades open. Ender on the flop, right?

[Elliot Schechter]

Yep.

[Joe Scales]

Five, six, seven.

[Hank]

Yep.

[Joe Scales]

Flush draw on the turn and the river breaks both, he says. The table erupts and the bachelor party loses their minds.

[Hank]

I bet they did. What a call.

[Joe Scales]

The young player ends up tilting and spews off 2 buy ins by the end of the night.

[Hank]

Ouch

[Joe Scales]

live by the bluff, die by the bluff.

[Hank]

Oh, absolutely.

[Joe Scales]

Connor doesn't ask any specific questions in this one, but I think it's a great hand. That's, this hand is a great reminder that, that poker isn't usually about whether you're right or wrong. You know, it's. It's about whether your decision making makes money long term. And if this guy is bluffing here, 30% of the time you have to call. If he's bluffing, 10% of the time, you have to fold.

[Hank]

Yeah.

[Joe Scales]

The key is knowing your player pool. And, and you have to be honest about it, because just because somebody showed down a bluff one time does not mean that they're bluffing all the time.

[Hank]

Right.

[Joe Scales]

And so you can't, you can't convince yourself of that, but you also can't convince yourself that they're never bluffing. So, um, know your player pool. I think that's the, that's the final piece of advice for this hand. Any, any closing thoughts there, Patrick?

[Hank]

Nope. I think, Connor, you. You played this one great. I think it, it's a great pot. It was a great call. I like the, the, the, the. Thinking through this myself and the rest of the novices have some homework to do on, on.

[Joe Scales]

Yeah, memorize that chart. It helped a lot for sure. And yeah, if anyone has a hand of the week that they would like to know how Patrick and I would play it, send it to Podcasty magazine dot com. Patrick, we'll catch you next week.

[Hank]

Sounds like a plan. We'll see you then, bud.

[Podcast Narrator]

From the flop to the turn, we play it. Oh, chasing hearts and diamonds never fold in the boots we're dealing. Poker legends rise on the 18.

[Joe Scales]

Did you ever notice how bad poker players are at living in the moment? We're either replaying the last hand or stressing about the next one. We're wired for results. We bust a tournament and spend the drive home redealing the same hand in our head. Or we bag chips and immediately jump to. So what's our plan for tomorrow? Very rarely do we just sit in the hand we're actually in. And it's funny because that's literally what poker demands from us. Play the hand you're in right now. We've got some big things coming up. Gila River, Long Butte. It'll be our first time in Arizona. New poker room, new scenery. Then it's Alaska with glaciers and wildlife. Poker on the open seas. It's easy to fast forward. What's the turnout going to be like? How will I run Will it be worth it? Or even to drift backward and focus on the past results? But the only thing that exists today, the packing, the planning, the excitement, the conversations, the preparation, that's the moment. Think about the first time you sat at a final table before the cards were even dealt. There's the electricity. The lights feel brighter. The chips sound louder. Your heart rate ticks up just a little bit. That moment, before anything is decided is alive. And too often we waste it by jumping ahead to the payout sheet in our minds. You know, what if I bust first instead of just thinking, this is pretty cool. Living in the moment isn't soft. It's not passive. It's discipline. It's the ability to say, I don't control the river card and I don't control the payout jumps, and I don't control variance. But I do control this decision, this breath, this hand. Poker punishes you when you're not present. And if you're still mad about the last pot, you misplay the next one. If you're obsessing over the trophy, you skip all the small edges right in front of you. Life's the same way. We miss the first time in Arizona because we're worried about how the event will end. We miss the beauty of Alaska because we're thinking about the social media posts. We miss the joy of sitting at the table because we're calculating what it means instead of feeling what it is. But what if we flipped that? What if the goal wasn't to rush to the result, but to fully experience the moment? There are only a handful of big moments in life. The wins, the trophies, the headlines. But there are thousands of small ones. The shuffle of chips, the first step into a new poker room. The sound of laughter at the table. The quiet confidence that we can have before the cards are in the air. Those are the in between hands, and they do matter. You don't have to ignore the future. You don't have to pretend outcomes don't matter. But you can choose to be present while they're still undecided. Enjoy the first time, enjoy the buildup, enjoy the unknown. Because once the river cart hits, that moment's gone. So as we head toward Arizona, as we count down to Alaska, as you think about your next tournament, your next shot, your next big swing. Don't live in the last hand. Don't live in the final payout. Play the hand your end, and don't rush through the in between hands. That's today's one outer. That's today's show. I'LL see you next week. A team. And until then, I'll see you at the tables. The Ante up podcast is a production

[Elliot Schechter]

of anteupmagazine.com contact the show at podcasts@anyup

[Joe Scales]

magazine.com or call the show at 540339-7741.

[Elliot Schechter]

If you'd like to advertise, send an email to [e-mail].