Episode Overview

Podcast: Apologetics Profile
Episode: 303: How Theistic Evolution Impacts Our Understanding of God with Dr. Tricia Scribner Part One
Hosts: Daniel Ray, James Walker
Guest: Dr. Tricia Scribner
Air Date: August 25, 2025

This episode dives deeply into the philosophical, theological, and practical implications of theistic evolution—the view that God used evolutionary mechanisms to create life. The conversation covers the different models of theistic evolution, its impact on the doctrine of God, and the challenges it presents to traditional Christian theology. Dr. Tricia Scribner, whose doctoral research centers on this intersection, brings clarity and nuance to a highly debated topic within Christian circles.

Main Themes and Purpose

• Critical Examination of Theistic Evolution: The episode analyzes how merging evolutionary theory with Christian doctrine influences and sometimes challenges the traditional understanding of God, Scripture, and creation.
• Respectful Dialogue: Both the hosts and Dr. Scribner emphasize that their critique is not about questioning the salvation or sincerity of Christians who hold theistic evolutionary views, but about examining the theological and philosophical coherence of those views.
• Clarification of Terms: The discussion aims to define various models of evolution (naturalistic vs theistic) and the internal diversity within theistic evolution itself.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Cultural Influence of Science on Theology (00:31–11:00)

• Authority of Science vs. Scripture: Daniel Ray and co-host note that science, especially evolutionary science, holds tremendous cultural authority, sometimes prompting reinterpretations of Genesis to harmonize with scientific consensus.

• Scientism Concern: The hosts reference J.P. Moreland’s critique that over-deference to science (scientism) can erode the rational authority of the Bible, making it less of a genuine source of knowledge.

  “Theistic evolution reinforces the authority of science... by constantly revising biblical teachings and interpretations because science says so.”
  —Host (quoting J.P. Moreland), (04:15)

• Prominent Theistic Evolutionists: They highlight Christians like Francis Collins and Karl Giberson, who accept evolution but do not interpret Genesis literally; Giberson even calls the literal view "ridiculous."

  “The literalist interpretation I had formally embraced and defended so vigorously began to look ridiculous.”
  —Host (quoting Karl Giberson), (05:52)

2. Orthodox Theology and the Genesis Account (06:35–08:37)

• Jesus’ View on Moses: Hosts appeal to Jesus’ view of Moses’ writings (John 5:46-47) to argue for the historicity of Adam and Eve and the importance of not reducing Genesis to mere myth.

  “If you do not believe [Moses’s] writings, how will you believe my works?”
  —Host (quoting John 5:47), (08:22)

• Providence vs. Randomness: They cite theologian Gregory Allison, noting that traditional Christian doctrine asserts God's exhaustive providence, leaving no room for randomness or undirected processes in creation.

3. Dr. Tricia Scribner’s Journey and Interests (11:02–19:29)

• Personal Background: Dr. Scribner shares how her upbringing in a fundamentalist Christian home led to her initial acceptance of young earth creationism, and how further education in science and theology broadened her exposure to old earth creationism and theistic evolution.

  “This has been a journey of misunderstanding a lot of things about origins. And still I have so much to learn...”
  —Dr. Tricia Scribner, (12:08)

• Philosophical Inquiry: Her doctoral work explored not just the hermeneutics or scientific sides, but deeply philosophical questions about what type of God is implied by theistic evolutionary models.

4. Catholic Acceptance and Aquinas’ Philosophy (19:30–22:13)

• The hosts note the Catholic Church’s openness to evolution (e.g., statements by Pope John Paul II), yet highlight that Aquinas’ metaphysics challenge the compatibility of evolution with orthodox theism.

5. Definitions and Mechanisms of Evolution (22:13–31:29)

• Types of Change: Dr. Scribner expands on the difference between microevolution (adaptation, variation within kind) and macroevolution (common ancestry, descent with modification)—stressing the philosophical importance of distinguishing between changes that affect an organism’s fundamental nature and those that don’t.

  “Most of us don't disagree with the notion that things change over time... The real central tenet to evolutionary theory in the Darwinian form... is common ancestry or ‘descent with modification.’”
  —Dr. Tricia Scribner, (22:13)

• Mechanism of Neo-Darwinism: The pivotal role of genetic mutation and natural selection, the concept of gradualism over billions of years, and the way Darwin personified “nature” as an acting agent.

  “Nature acts. And now mother Nature is personified like a human intelligent breeder...”
  —Dr. Tricia Scribner, (26:55)

6. Models of Theistic Evolution (31:29–47:53)

A. Planned Evolution (36:08–42:59)

• Definition: God frontloads all the instructions for life in the initial creation, and everything unfolds via natural processes without further direct intervention.

• Analogy: Like loaded dice that seem random but are actually designed to achieve a certain outcome.

  “God embedded in the initial conditions all the information needed to produce all living things... then left it to run solely on the natural mechanisms...” —Dr. Tricia Scribner, (39:49)

• Critique: This view is criticized as resembling deism rather than traditional theism—God is seen as a distant initiator, not the personal, providential Lord of Scripture.

B. Directed Evolution (42:59–47:53)

• Definition: God intervenes at specific junctures in evolutionary history—e.g., inserting new genetic information, causing first life, or instilling the image of God in humanity.

• Variety: Can include those who believe God’s intervention was rare, or only at critical points such as the creation of the soul or the emergence of consciousness.

  “Directed evolutionists believe that God intervened at some point in the evolutionary process... The main distinguishing factor is where God intervened.”
  —Dr. Tricia Scribner, (44:14)

• Philosophical Challenge: If God can intervene directly at some points, why not at more points—or even throughout creation, as in the traditional Christian doctrine of providence?

C. Non-Teleological Evolution (49:46–52:57)

• Definition: God sets evolution in motion but has no specific purpose or direction for its outcomes.

• Philosophical Incoherence: Dr. Scribner strongly distinguishes this view from orthodox Christianity, suggesting it is closer to process theology and not truly “theistic.”

  “This notion is very alien... I would argue that this is not even the theistic God...”
  —Dr. Tricia Scribner, (49:46)

7. Philosophical and Theological Problems (52:57–57:38)

• Science vs. Scripture: Addressing the frequent assertion that “the Bible is not a science textbook,” Dr. Scribner clarifies the crucial distinction between genre and truth:

  “The Bible is not a science textbook because that is not its purpose, but in all scientific claims it makes, it is true. The Bible is not a history book, but in all historical claims that it makes it is true.” —Dr. Tricia Scribner, (55:09)

• Metaphorical Language and Meaning: Uses examples and C.S. Lewis’s insight about metaphors—accurate metaphors get us closer to the truth, but figurative language doesn’t mean what’s being described is fictional.

• Doctrinal Impact: Hosts and Dr. Scribner discuss how uncritical acceptance of evolutionary mechanisms (especially in non-interventionist or non-teleological forms) can weaken core Christian doctrines, such as the image of God, historicity of Adam and Eve, and the doctrine of providence.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dr. Tricia Scribner on Charity in Dialogue:

  “I'm not questioning that they are a believer, but whether they are consistent... I have the same approach as you, just to remind people that I'm not questioning Christianity and do not desire to hurt or harm my brothers and sisters who hold to this view.”
  (11:02)

• On God’s Providence:

  “Such meticulous, exhaustive providence does not allow for randomness, accident, chance, fortune, luck, or fate... God directs all things teleologically, ruling out all notions of undirected processes at work in this world.”
  —Host (paraphrasing Greg Allison), (09:30)

• On Planned Evolution:

  “He didn't interfere to create certain kinds. They would consider that an interference and that actually his intelligence is better revealed through the fact that he didn't interfere...”
  —Dr. Tricia Scribner, (39:49–40:35)

• On Figurative Language:

  “I can say my husband's hair is as white as snow… But I have a real husband and he has real hair, and it really is white. Okay, so I'm saying something about reality using figurative language. My husband isn't figurative. See the distinction?”
  —Dr. Tricia Scribner, (55:54)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Science’s Cultural Authority, Introduction to Theistic Evolution: (00:31–06:35)
• Evangelicals & Literal Genesis—Quotes from Collins, Giberson, Miller: (04:15–06:58)
• Scripture and Traditional Theology vs. Randomness in Nature: (08:41–11:02)
• Dr. Scribner’s Story & Introduction to Her Research: (12:08–19:29)
• Aquinas, Catholicism, and Evolution: (19:29–22:13)
• Mechanics of Evolution Explained: (22:13–31:29)
• Varieties within Theistic Evolution Explained: (31:29–52:57)
  • Planned Evolution: (36:08–42:59)
  • Directed Evolution: (42:59–47:53)
  • Non-Teleological Evolution: (49:46–52:57)
• Theological & Philosophical Challenges: (52:57–58:27)

Summary and Flow

This episode of Apologetics Profile delivers a nuanced, richly detailed exploration of theistic evolution. It balances clarity (with definitions and distinctions), scholarly insight (drawing from philosophers and theologians), and pastoral concern (emphasizing doctrinal essentials versus secondary matters).

Listeners come away with a solid grasp of:

• The different “flavors” of theistic evolution, their strengths, and their tensions with orthodox theology.
• The importance of careful, consistent thinking about God’s nature and providence in light of scientific claims.
• The ways careless harmonization of evolutionary thinking and Christian doctrine can undermine scriptural authority and core Christian beliefs.

The tone is charitable, thoughtful, and intellectually robust—offering both critical analysis and respect for differences within the Christian community.