← Apologetics Profile
Apologetics Profile
Episode 326: Apologetics From a Pastoral Point of View with Pastor Chris Legg - Part Two
00:36:00
When Jesus began His Church, He did not intend for us to live out our calling in isolation from o...
Loading summary
Transcript57 lines
- [00:11]
Podcast Host
This is Apologetics Profile, a weekly podcast equipping you to engage the world of non Christian ideas, beliefs and spiritual practices.
- [00:26]
Chris Legg
On my trip to the Grand Canyon at the end of November last year, I became intimately acquainted with with my own foolishness. Though deathly afraid of heights, I nevertheless wanted to hike down to the famous Oo Ah Point about a mile down the winding South Kaibab Trail. The Oo Ah Point is one of the most stunning overviews of the canyon you'll ever see on foot. So not long after sunrise, I boarded a shuttle to the trailhead, all decked out in my hiking gear, having no clue where what I was about to encounter. When I got off the bus, the stunning view from the rim took my breath away. A flurry of fearful thoughts suddenly plagued my mind. Could I even really do this? The absolute terrifying majesty of the canyon's enormous depths made me think twice about the whole endeavor. After several moments of hesitant deliberation, though, I drummed up enough courage to at least start slowly walking down the winding switchbacks. When would I be able to visit the Grand Canyon again? I reasoned. So off I went. Moments later, however, about 100 yards from the top, my fear of heights completely crushed me. I could not take another step. So there I crouched against the rocks for several minutes while adults and children carefully walked around me. I was embarrassed, but I could not move. I felt like a fool for even trying it. The South Kaibab Trail is narrow and has no guardrails. You are some 5,000ft above the canyon floor. The views are, for me at least, utterly beautiful beyond description, but also utterly terrifying at the same time. I literally went to my knees and clung to the side of the rock and could not even look up. I was curled up and frozen in place for what seemed like an eternity, until a very kind gentleman from South Korea, I later discovered, stopped to ask if I was okay. Though he barely spoke English, he graciously helped me walk back up to the top of the trail. Once safely back at the top, I thanked my rescuer and sat down on a rock far away from the edge, quite dejected that I had failed. Moments later, though, in the midst of my shame, a mother and her 10 year old son came up to the trailhead and started looking around. I asked them if they would like.
- [03:33]
Dan
Me to take their picture.
- [03:34]
Chris Legg
They eagerly agreed and then asked if I had yet done the trail. Somewhat embarrassed, I told them I was too afraid of heights to do it. That is when they kindly invited me to join them. Reluctant but nervously hopeful, I decided to try again. So with their help, I walked very slowly as they both patiently walked on my outside, allowing me to stay close to the inside and not be distracted by the unbelievably terrifying outer edge of the trail. The 10 year old kept asking me.
- [04:04]
Dan
Questions about everything he could think of.
- [04:06]
Chris Legg
Which took my mind off of the fact that I was walking along a cliff some mile or so above the Grand Canyon floor. While I did have to stop a few times, we eventually made it to the Oo ah Point. The spectacular view frightened me to the core of my soul. The sheer grandeur of it all made me afraid of falling or being swept off the trail by a sudden blast of wind.
- [04:29]
Dan
We didn't stay there for very long.
- [04:32]
Chris Legg
I have to admit that all my ego and pride and whatever sense of manliness I had was completely eviscerated from.
- [04:37]
Dan
My soul in that moment.
- [04:39]
Chris Legg
The view at the Oo Ah Point brought me quite literally to my knees. But despite my persistent fear, we did eventually make it back to the top. Thanks be to God for the kindness of strangers who were themselves Christians. They walked with me the whole way.
- [05:30]
Dan
And helped me to see something I.
- [05:32]
Chris Legg
Could not have experienced on my own. They did not belittle or chastise me for being afraid. Their own lack of fear and their encouragement to me strengthened me to walk the narrow way, though my fear never went away completely. This, I think, is something of a genuine portrait of the Christian life and of apologetics in general. It is a seamlessly integrated way of living out and experiencing Christian life. Their help was a kind of real time apologetic, lived out in a very meaningful and practical way that helped me to see something of the grandeur of God's creation I could not have seen on my own. And this is something like what we ought to do for one another, lifting each other up along the path and encouraging each other to persevere. That morning in the Grand Canyon, I learned something more about practical, everyday apologetics from Chelsea and Ryder than I had in any apologetics book I have read, a lesson I have only probably begun to understand. I saw God's overwhelming grandeur, beauty and terrifying holiness there in the Grand Canyon, something that I would not have been able to see without their help. In short, you do not have to have any formal training in academic apologetics to be a good apologist. This isn't to disparage academic apologetics, but it is a recognition that you can help someone to their own Ooh Ah Point with the gifts and abilities God has given you. Biblically speaking, we are all apologists according.
- [07:06]
Dan
To 1 Peter 3:15.
- [07:08]
Chris Legg
With gentleness and reverence, Chelsea and Ryder gave a testimony of the hope that was within them by how they walked and by how they treated me. Their walk encouraged my own, and we all got to the ooh ah point together. Here on part two of our conversation with friend and lead pastor of South Spring Baptist Church in Tyler, Texas, Chris Legg, we converse about a variety of creative ways in which everyone in the church can employ apologetics in their own everyday lives and help others see the wonder and beauty of Jesus that they could not finally apprehend on their own. Apologetics isn't just for the formerly educated apologists. It is for everyone in the body of Christ. All of us have been equipped to help each other along the path to which God has called us. The eye finally can't say to the hand, I have no need of you. Here once again, is Pastor Chris Legge.
- [08:18]
Guest Speaker / Pastor Chris Legge
Properly understood, apologetics is age appropriately done at every stage along the way. It's. It's like you said, seamlessly integrated into why do we believe this? Why do we think this is okay? The apologetic that has gotten me the most ground, I think recently has actually been as a psychologist with me saying, I know people. And I'm reading through. I read through Daniel, or I read through the story of Joseph, or I read through the story of David and Abigail, and these people behave like real people. And teaching through John, what got people's attention was me going, like, you know, you know how we behave. Like, take a second step outside of this and ask, how would you respond to Jesus saying this? And what you'll discover is it's probably some version of how these disciples reacted. Like, they didn't understand him, they didn't get it. Like, when you go, I just read a whole chapter in the Bible, I didn't understand it. Like, yeah, welcome to the club. Neither did his followers. Like, they're at the end of a conversation with him. They're like, I think he's mad because we didn't bring sandwiches. And he's like, no, don't trust the. The. The bread of the Pharisees is what I said, don't trust the leaven of the Pharisees. Like, is he mad that we didn't bring lunch? Like, oh, my gosh, they sound just like us.
- [09:36]
Dan
Right?
- [09:36]
Guest Speaker / Pastor Chris Legge
You don't. You don't invent a religion and make yourself look like buffoons. That's right, but we're buffoons. And so if you look like buffoons when it comes to understanding this stuff, then that's. Yeah, that. Welcome to the club. From the, from Peter and James and John and Thomas all the way till now is that we're going like now, wait, did he, did he mean this? And we're doing our best to understand it and interpret it just like they were. Now we have the advantage of. They were trying to interpret it before Jesus interpreted it through his teaching and through his death and burial and resurrection. I mean, how many of them. I don't ever thought about this, Dan, but how many of them showed up for his resurrection? None.
- [10:21]
Dan
Now he had to go find them.
- [10:22]
Guest Speaker / Pastor Chris Legge
Mary was not there waiting for him to be resurrected. No one was. He comes out tomb. And this may sound irreverent and I apologize if it does to anybody out there, but I've imagined Jesus stepping out of the tomb and going tada. And then there's no one but a bunch of guards asleep. And he's like, not one of you. Really?
- [10:41]
Chris Legg
No one.
- [10:43]
Guest Speaker / Pastor Chris Legge
No one listened to me. I said I was coming back on the third day and zero mom is not even here.
- [10:50]
Dan
Well, and they fall asleep in Gethsemane before he dies. Like you can't even hang out with me for an hour and watch and pray. All right, well, let's go. They're here. Let's get this over with.
- [11:02]
Chris Legg
And then.
- [11:03]
Guest Speaker / Pastor Chris Legge
You ever done a Passover, Dan?
- [11:04]
Dan
What's that?
- [11:05]
Guest Speaker / Pastor Chris Legge
Ever done Passover?
- [11:07]
Dan
I have. A long time ago. And when I was actually in the military, we had a gentleman who was a chaplain's assistant who was a Jewish convert to Christianity. And so we did a Messianic Passover service in chapel in Sinai.
- [11:24]
Guest Speaker / Pastor Chris Legge
The whole thing was like an hour and a half, two or three hours long.
- [11:27]
Dan
I don't remember all the details. I wish I was paying more attention back then, but yes, we host one.
- [11:32]
Guest Speaker / Pastor Chris Legge
Every other year at our church. We'll have three or four hundred people come and we all do Passover together at the church.
- [11:37]
Dan
Wow.
- [11:38]
Guest Speaker / Pastor Chris Legge
Because you don't understand the Lord's Supper until you've done a Passover. Like 20, 26 is, supposedly we're going to Israel, Lord willing, obviously we'll see. But any year we don't go to Israel, we do Passover. And so, man, they're exhausting. They are so long. So the fact that he then walks them all the way across the city of Jerusalem, from the upper end of Jerusalem all the way across several miles to then a nice steel garden that we have, actually what's funny is we go there every time we go to Israel, we go To a guess at. We don't know exactly where the garden was, but it's a good guess. It's. You're close to pray for like an hour. And let me, let me tell you what people do on like day six of a 10 day trip to Israel, when you get still in the garden of Gethsemane, they fall asleep. And you're like, yep, because we're tired, we're exhausted. This place is, is, is a lot of work. We walk a lot and we've had a big full meal. Our stomachs, which are never full because no one's ever full in that 2000 years ago, full being filled was probably an experience that only extremely wealthy people ever had. Except Passover. We're full and it's the middle of the night. And Jesus has been teaching, of course they fall asleep. Why? Because we would fall asleep.
- [12:58]
Dan
Yeah, it's.
- [12:59]
Guest Speaker / Pastor Chris Legge
They do exactly what humans do. And this to me is a huge apologetic. These are real people. They're real. Like this is, this is not a made up religion. This does not serve them, it does not help them. And they portray themselves as idiots. No one who invents a religion portrays themselves as. Listen, I'm pretty much just the comic relief in this story because I never know what the guy's talking about, even afterwards. I don't get it half the time. So anyway, I think that is a, the recognition to me that, that all of these different things all feed into the apologetic. Is this stuff real? Is it true? Did it happen? And to go, listen, I don't know everything about this area. I don't know everything about space. Talk to Dan. Dan knows more about space than I do. I don't know everything about the natural world. Talk to my dad. He's forgotten more about the natural world than I'll ever know. I don't know that much about philosophy. My son Mark, the philosophy student, I said I would work it in that we wrote the book Sex and Marriage together because I think Christian truth should also be practical. If it's not playing out practically, then we may be missing something. Yeah, man, it is. The whole book is an apologetic for God being the one who created marriage and being the one who created sex for marriage. And it's like, anyway, you would, you would love. There's a whole chapter in it that's called. It's like let's, let's create something from the scratch. Can we create a relationship with another human in which we have the potential to get what we want in the way that we want it? For the rest of our lives and not be selfish somehow. I get what I want the way that I want it, without being a selfish jerk for the rest of my life. And when you create that, there's really only one way to make that happen. And it turns out marriage is is that parable of that relationship with God. Because marriage is a living parable of God's relationship to us. Sex is meant to be a living parable of the marriage itself. Anyway, whole other topic. But sex and marriage on Amazon, Chris Leg, you can look it up.
- [15:03]
Dan
We will have you back on to talk about that.
- [15:05]
Guest Speaker / Pastor Chris Legge
Yeah, it's wild. Marriage is a proof of God.
- [15:09]
Dan
That's a whole conversation. Yeah, I think it is. But I think everything that you've just said and everything we've been talking about up till now puts us in the story. Put yourself in Peter's shoes, put yourself in John's shoes. And apologetics as the world in which I inhabit, it seems like apologetics. A lot of people's impression of apologetics is some young guy in his bedroom with some mood lighting and a camera. Some clever facts, some clever arguments, some hit production debunking atheism. Well, I think the apologetics in the Internet, I would say if somebody's interested in apologetics, I would not first advise them to go see what it looks like on social media, because it's a night and day different. It's not about a list of facts now and just shoving facts in people's faces. It's about showing the continuity of God speaking throughout history that crosses into our personal lives and then showing us how we are the disciples, we are the patriarchs, we are the human beings that God has created for his purposes. When the disciples go before the Sanhedrin, I think it's an axum where. Where the council says, these are unlearned men. And the Greek word literally is idiotes, from which we get idiots. But the distinction was that they had understood that these men had been with Jesus. And I think that there's two things at work. I think for a seamless apologetic approach to church. It humanely situates you in Christ. You see how Jesus is working in your life. Because a lot of times it just seems abstract, a proposition, a set of beliefs to which I must mentally ascend rather than being relationally apprehended by the God who calls people in clown shoes to his ministry. Peter recognizes who Jesus is and says, lord, depart from me. I'm a sinful man. After that initial catch of fish, or Peter's confession of Jesus, in Matthew 16, you are the Christ, the son of the living God. And two seconds later, he's turning around and trying to deny Jesus the very reason why he came. And Jesus rebukes him. He doesn't understand at that moment, even while he's confessing Jesus as the Christ, he doesn't understand what Jesus came to do. John asked Philip, when they're in Bethesda, if I'm saying that right, Philip, where are we going to buy all this bread? Like they were always. If you read the little incidentals in John, yeah, Bethsaida, all the little incidentals in John, there's these little anecdotes where they're concerned about food. They went off to a village to buy food. So when we get to John, they're like, hey, Philip, where are we going to get food? Well, Philip was from Bethsaida. Bethsaida. And it was a test. The Bible says Jesus said this to test them because they were always concerned about food, not realizing who they were with. They'd go to another town to buy food, another village to buy food. So Jesus is like, hey, where are you going to buy food for all these people? And they're like, we don't have enough money for this.
- [18:26]
Chris Legg
So you're right, the humanity is there.
- [18:29]
Dan
And we need to see our own humanity in light of who Jesus is, our sinfulness, everything. And I think that's what I think you guys at South Spring do so well, is to bring apologetics into a humanely practical way that people can hear and see God, how he works, how he moves, not just in the Bible, but in our everyday lives, and to concede that. And I, as an apologist, have not scored any argumentative points with non believers. But I am one of the first to admit I don't know everything. I was on a discussion with an atheist about the Flood and about the Exodus. Very nice, lady. But I said many times, I don't know, because the Bible doesn't say, I'm making up a scenario, but I don't know. The Bible doesn't tell me that. But the comments section just ripped me apart for every time I said, I don't know.
- [19:23]
Guest Speaker / Pastor Chris Legge
But they're not free thinkers, so they.
- [19:25]
Chris Legg
Don'T understand that they're locked into.
- [19:26]
Dan
I mean, atheism is finally a theology. There's nobody that's not a theologian.
- [19:33]
Guest Speaker / Pastor Chris Legge
Right.
- [19:33]
Dan
And I think that's another aspect of what apologetics does, is that whenever you begin a sentence with God is, or God is not, or God does, or God does not, you are A theologian. So the question isn't whether or not God exists, but what do you think of God and what is your definition of God coming from and how do you understand yourself in relation to that God? But I think that is what a seamless apologetic is. How do I live this out? It's not just a list of facts.
- [20:02]
Guest Speaker / Pastor Chris Legge
Well, that's actually a good, so one I've got a comment on. I love when you described the mood lighting and the camera and like that is exactly how I, I picture atheists on the, on the online. And so how intriguing that I don't watch that version of apologetics. So apparently there's a whole version of apologetics that is just mirroring the atheist, atheist model of, of like, listen, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna, in my little echo chamber, I'm just going to speak about something and I don't, I don't watch those apologists because half the times when I have, I'm like, I mean, they're just wrong and they, they don't know it. They're, they're well meaning, just like the atheists. I think sometimes they're well meaning. They're just, they're just like at some fundamental level, like, no, no, that's wrong. Like what you just said is factually incorrect. But you just don't know that. And so that's sad for me that you don't, you just don't know the facts of your own area of the legend expertise. That's the. I'm trying to remember. We were, I was just looking at a passage that talked about. Oh, oh, it's in first Timothy, first Timothy one. Paul's trying to get Timothy not to be distracted easily. And he's telling Timothy this, you know, this pastor who's probably 25 to 35 just now starting on his own. Verse 6 of chapter 1. Certain persons, by swerving from these, have wandered into vain discussion, desiring to be teachers of the law without understanding what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions. People say social media isn't in the Bible. They don't know what they're talking about, but they make confident assertions. That is social media defined right there.
- [21:42]
Dan
Yep.
- [21:42]
Guest Speaker / Pastor Chris Legge
I never let my level of ignorance influence my level of confidence. There you go. But listen, I think, I think us learning to find this beautiful parable, these beautiful parables wrapped within what God is teaching us is so much the key to what true apologetics is. It is making a defense and doing it, which we all do badly to some degree or another. But I, I really appreciate this picture of, of it being integrated into what we do from day one. Yes, we can have an apologetics or worldview conference where we focus attention on it. That's great. And half the time those should probably be about the second half of First Peter 3, you know, 15 and following, which is about being patient or showing honor or respect or, you know, being gentle in the way that we do it. And, and I think about half the time the error we make as Christians is that we don't know what we're talking about. And the other half is when we do know we're talking about, we're not very nice about it. And so, and let, leave that, leave these false dichotomies. Leave this, this idea that faith and that faith and science or faith and reason are in opposition to each other. Let's leave those to the non believers and let them have those views and let them try to defend those views. And unless let us be the ones going, no, no, this, this all integrates. This, this all works together. This is, this is a seamless concept called truth. And, and, and they, and they integrate together. And we have, you know, we have this advantage in that we have a, a direct source called Scripture that when we interpret correctly, also leads us to truth versus, you know, they're having to piece things together without that advantage that we have. And, and also we're humble enough to say, and I'm sure I'm wrong about things and I don't even know what they are, so I have to be humble. If I know I'm wrong about something and I don't even know what it is, I have to be humble. So, and that's. Theology is the, you know, the, the great science of theology, which I don't, I don't know if we've ever talked about this, but I was trained at. Theology has three taxonomy sections. One is called doctrine, one is called ethics, and one is called apologetics. So that the study of theology is actually broken into three parts. How do we speak about God to one another? How do we speak about God to non believers? And then how then shall we live based on this God, which I think is really beautiful? And those don't need to be somehow dis. Integrated. Every talk we have should, especially in a church setting, because when I've got 1200 people there on Sunday morning, it's, there's going to be people in there who don't know God at all. They're going to be saints who are way beyond me in their walk. And there are going to be people who don't know how to apply this to their lives. And so all areas of theology taught through scripture can be engaged with. And that's true of the, I mean us teaching basic doctrines to babies. Jesus loves you. You know it because the Bible says it. Let's sing that again and again and again. That is a statement of truth that I love the fact that Jesus loves me. This I know then has a four after it, which now is the apologetic how. Okay, make a defense of that. Oh really? He does, does he? Prove it. Okay, the Bible says he does. A good point like that, that's an apologetic at the baseline level. The minute you defend a truth claim, you're making it an apologetic. Now technically apologetics would be that conversation with a non believer, but the conversations are so integrated and we don't always know anyway. So I, I think it's phenomenal what we do. So I'll let you in on insight. I don't know if this will ever happen, Dan. And by the way, you know, you, you tried to start a conference recently that ended up not happening. If I had a, if I had a nickel for every time that happened to me, like I, I think I would be wealthy. It is, it is a, it is something that all. It's if, if it's the old skiing thing, if you're not falling down, you're not trying hard enough, like if everything you try to pull off happens, then, then you're picking too many easy paths and. But one of my hopes, and I'm sure this will not be the name Dan is I want to do a nerd conference. My brother in law just published a book on Amazon. I actually pulled it up real quick. Star Trek and Faith. And so my, my brother in law who is a. Has a master's in philosophy, wrote a paper, I mean wrote a now book, Christian Worldview and the Trek series, new and old and he. I'm gonna, I want to bring him in to talk about this parable. The parables found in, you know, this, you know, now, I don't know, 60 year old genre of Star Trek to have you come and speak about, you know, how the evidence declares God. If that would be your first choice. I'd love to have a Tolkien speaker come like, and, and you know, like, just because I feel like there is a yearning among. And again, we've got a problem. Sure. That we'll have to come with a better name. Although maybe not. There's a yearning among people who are into this Stuff that think being into this stuff means they, they can't really be Christians.
- [27:19]
Dan
Yeah.
- [27:19]
Guest Speaker / Pastor Chris Legge
And it reminds me of my gr. My wife's grandfather who used to say, I can't become a Christian because I'm a Jew. And I would always be like, I, I feel like a lot of the early Christians were Jews, including, you know, like Jesus. Like, I, like, I, I feel like it's okay to be a Christian at a Jew. Like, but it's so. It's like, oh, no, no. I think William Lane Craig was recently talking about the fact that in Britain in, In the year in the Western Europe now, the intelligentsia have largely become theists.
- [27:55]
Dan
It's starting to be a trend. Justin. Justin Brierley, I've talked to him a couple of times. And there's a lot of intellectuals in Europe that are no formal real upbringing in religion, but are fascinated and intrigued by and are moved by the Christian narrative. And some becoming theists, not entirely committing to Christianity, but it's bucking the trend of absolutely a reverse of what the new atheism has been espousing for the last 25 years. And I think people are, Chris, absolutely hungering for. I mean, I think this is why movies are so popular. We are craving a narrative. I mean this. We are storytelling beings and we want a story that is true. And I think a lot of people, I mean, Hollywood is cashing in on this intrinsic desire that we have to have a good story told to us and we go to the movies because we hope these stories are true to some degree. The love story, the hero rescuing the world story, the evil being defeated story, justice being done story, all of those pieces are there in the Christian narrative. And the wonder of it all as what I think Lewis and Tolkien were so good at doing is bringing their readers into their world and making them a part of that story. And I think that's what apologetics should do, is to bring people into the world of the gospel and show them not only this isn't just ancient history, this is a story that is continuing and you have a chapter to contribute. And that's what people want. They want a sense of purpose, something larger than themselves. I think that's why professional sports is so popular, is because it is something larger than the individual and we want that larger than life. We want to be a part of that larger than life narrative. And I think that's what people are hungering for. And I think apologetics done well exactly can provide that. And that's what I like about coming out to your church and talking to people because I see that I am so encouraged. Like apologetics is here, but it's invisible. It's the reading glasses. It's optometry done well, you don't even know it's on your nose. You're seeing through it how things should be. And you're seeing yourself within that situation. And that these people, from the centurions to the men of Athens to the disciples to the prostitutes that Jesus forgave from the little girl to whom Jesus said Talitha cum to Lazarus, were all a part of, of this story that never ends and will continue on into eternity. And so I like the way you guys are doing things out there. And I hope our conversation will encourage some reluctant churches or pastors to get involved in helping make apologetics a seamless, integrated part of the Gospel teaching and proclamation.
- [31:04]
Guest Speaker / Pastor Chris Legge
If anybody's got any questions for me, Dan, any followers of yours out there, they are welcome to reach out directly. If it's a pastor or leader about kind of our philosophy about this stuff and how we train leaders, I'm all about it. If it's, if it's someone who's who, even if it's the total other wall, I'd like, how does this apply to my marriage or whatever. Like I do all that. I come teach on these things. I love doing that. I love partnering with other ministries, whether it's how to have great marriage. Because by the way, my personal opinion is a great marriage isn't apologetic. I think we lose. I think we lose kids when they go off to college. Not necessarily because of sex, drugs, rock and roll or liberal professors. I think it's because their parents. Marriage stinks and it offers no inspiration to follow Christ, which we would expect. Remember that Paul teaches that the way a husband and a wife relate to one another, teaches others is a model, is a parable of how God relates to the church. And so mom and dad can't get along and neither one of them can sacrifice in order to love each other. Why would their children think faith was anything but a joke? And so I'd love to encourage people along these lines in that way too. I think it's all fits hand. I think if the thing of Christian. If the church had great marriages and. Or Dan, as you're living right now as a single person or what it showed to live a full life with Christ, I don't know that we could build churches fast enough.
- [32:34]
Dan
I think.
- [32:34]
Guest Speaker / Pastor Chris Legge
I think we'd have people flooding in because they don't know they need Jesus, but they know their relationships stink. And so anyway, all of this, again, I know we're saying this over and over again. All of this seamlessly fits together. I'm doing that on video. That hand sign of all the fingers interlocking, that's so I appreciate the opportunity to get to talk about this. This is really fun.
- [32:54]
Chris Legg
Thank you. Yeah.
- [32:55]
Dan
We'll put your church and your own contact information in our notes of the episode. And if anything that we have said here today has been intriguing to you, reach out to Chris and he'll be happy to engage with you about these things. A fantastic church. If you're ever in East Texas, if you're ever out in Tyler, it's a beautiful campus amidst the wonderful piney woods of East Texas. It's a beautiful place, wonderful people, great hospitality, and you guys are one shining example of how I think the body of Christ locally can, can and should do apologetics with, with families and married and singles and everything. So final thoughts to our audience. Chris?
- [33:39]
Guest Speaker / Pastor Chris Legge
Yeah, I would say my final thoughts are just that. I think I, I really would. I really would say don't, don't see apologetics as somehow this distinct thing over here that's independent from. Don't think of this, of apologetics as this distinct area of study independent from the other study that you're doing. Instead, understand it integrates perfectly into the way we live our lives, into the way we defend our faith with our actions, defend our faith with our words, defend our faith, defend the reason for the hope that we have. And so whether that's honestly, whether it's through adopting children to reveal the, the, to defend the faith, which is part of what our reasoning has been, is, do we mean what we say? Well, then it should show in our lives and, or whether it's, you know, focusing on ministering within your church or how you give money, worship, apologetic Bible study, the study of doctrine, and then how to live those things out are all one thing integrated, which is getting to know God through Christ by the power of his Holy Spirit. And I would just encourage that and think of those things as being integrated. And as you learn and grow, you will become prepared to give a reason for the hope that you have. And if you follow the model of Christ, then you'll also get better at doing it in a way that is winsome and loving and gentle, as we been called to do. And I just think apologetics is a natural outflowing of the Christian walk. So I would. Whether that's in whatever relationship that is.
- [35:24]
Podcast Host
Apologetics Profile is a production of Watchmen Fellowship Incorporated, Arlington, Texas. For more information on apologetics, cults, world religions, and other non Christian ideologies and practices, visit watchman.org today. That's watchman.org.