Apologetics Profile – Episode 330

Testing Latter-day Saint Doctrine and Practice with Sandra Tanner – Part Two
February 23, 2026
Hosts: James Walker & Daniel Ray
Guest: Sandra Tanner

Episode Overview

In this episode, James Walker and Daniel Ray continue their thought-provoking discussion with Sandra Tanner, a renowned former Latter-day Saint and great-great-granddaughter of Brigham Young. The conversation critically examines the doctrines and historical practices of the LDS Church, focusing on the authority of modern prophets, doctrinal changes, polygamy, and how to have effective faith-based dialogues with Latter-day Saints. The tone remains respectful yet candid, aiming to equip listeners with a biblical framework for engaging with Mormonism.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Defining Apostleship and Prophetic Authority in LDS vs. Biblical Context

• Scriptural vs. LDS Uses of "Apostle"
  The hosts explain the biblical requirements for apostleship—specifically, eyewitness experience of Jesus’s resurrection and direct appointment by Jesus (1:01–8:10). Wayne Grudem’s Systematic Theology is cited:

  • "In this narrow sense of the term, there are no more apostles today, and we are to expect no more." (Narrator, 03:39)
  • In contrast to Christian tradition, modern LDS leaders take on the titles of apostle and prophet, which Walker and Ray see as biblically unwarranted and potentially prideful (05:44).

• Testing Prophets and Modern Revelation
  The hosts emphasize that any claimed revelation or prophetic message must be measured against the canon of Scripture (06:50–08:10):

  • "Anyone today claiming to be a prophet with alleged new revelation from God which is not in accordance with the Bible... it is not, finally, a prophet at all." (Narrator, 09:12)

2. "Burning in the Bosom" and Subjectivism

• Personal Experience vs. Testing the Spirits
  Sandra Tanner shares examples of how spiritual experiences (‘burnings in the bosom’) can be misguiding and how both mainstream LDS and splinter groups claim divine manifestations (10:38–12:04):
  • “You can't just go on feeling, because there are people in every one of these splinter groups... that will testify to visions...” (Sandra Tanner, 10:38)
  • The same subjective standard is used by both mainstream LDS and fundamentalist offshoots.

3. Succession Crisis After Joseph Smith and Brigham Young’s Rise

• Brigham Young’s Ascendancy
  Discussion about how Brigham Young assumed leadership after Joseph Smith’s death, including the story that Brigham miraculously took on Joseph’s appearance (12:10–15:28).
  • “He's [Brigham] only claiming leadership for the Twelve, that he was the head of the apostles... We see [mimicry] all the time on TV...” (Sandra Tanner, 13:57)

4. Modern Apostles and Shifting Authority

• Authority Confusion Within LDS Leadership
  Sandra details that LDS members often believe apostles are equivalent to biblical apostles, but, in practice, only the sitting president's words are truly authoritative (16:17–17:32):
  • “...they kind of want their cake and eat it too. While they're holding them up as true apostles... yet wanting to be able to question the specifics of some of the doctrines they give. So it leaves you confused. When do we trust these guys?” (Sandra Tanner, 16:17)

5. Miracle of Forgiveness and Doctrinal Evolution

• Controversies Over Past Prophets’ Teachings
  The hosts discuss how once-authoritative books, like The Miracle of Forgiveness by Spencer W. Kimball, have been minimized or repudiated by current LDS leadership due to their stringent standards and changing rhetoric (17:34–20:00):
  • “...it's a miracle if you ever get forgiven because of the standard he puts in there.” (Sandra Tanner, 19:00)
  • The church now urges focus on living prophets, sidestepping problematic past teachings.

6. Changing Narratives and Concealment in LDS History

• Transparency and Revisionism
  Sandra recounts how key details about LDS origins and controversial events (seer stones, translation methods) were hidden from earlier generations and only recently acknowledged by the church (22:44–25:04):
  • "They want to use David Whitmer... but they don't tell you... Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet." (Sandra Tanner, 23:38)
  • There is now a “fog” over church history, with selective admission of past events (28:07–28:47).

7. Polygamy: Practice, Secrecy, and Lingering Legacy

• Polygamy’s Role and LDS Narrative
  The conversation explores LDS efforts to downplay or sanitize the history of polygamy, especially regarding Joseph Smith’s numerous secret plural marriages and the lack of recognition for his wives (29:58–36:37):
  • “If Joseph's practice of polygamy was countenance, directed, commanded by God... then these women should be honored for their bravery... they are not given a name and a place in church history...” (Sandra Tanner, 31:20)
  • The complicated and “checkered” history of polygamy is acknowledged—post-Manifesto plural marriages by top leaders, lack of transparency on Joseph Smith’s plural wives, and inconsistency with revelation timelines.

8. Advice for Christians Engaging Latter-day Saints

• Principles of Respectful Dialogue
  Sandra urges kindness and understanding when engaging LDS missionaries or members, highlighting the emotional and social complexities involved (37:21–41:51):
  • “They are sincerely out there wanting to serve God. They have just been deceived. They are not the enemy... set the tone for their openness to ever talk to Christians again.” (Sandra Tanner, 37:21)
  • Focus on personal assurance of salvation and ask gentle, probing questions about the requirements for eternal life, temple ordinances, and where such ideas appear in the New Testament.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Prophetic Authority:
  “If any in modern times want to take the title apostle to themselves, they immediately raise the suspicion that they may be motivated by... a desire for much more authority in the church than any one person should rightly have.” (Narrator, 05:44)

• On "Burning in the Bosom":
  “You can't just go on feeling, because there are people in every one of these splinter groups... that will testify to visions...” (Sandra Tanner, 10:38)

• On Brigham Young’s Leadership:
  “He was only claiming leadership for the 12... as the head apostle... So he could get up and give some sort of feeling of the mantle of Joseph.” (Sandra Tanner, 13:57)

• On Doctrinal Flexibility:
  “When do we trust these guys?” (Sandra Tanner, 16:17)

• On Historical Concealment:
  “There is still a fog that they put over their history as much as possible.” (Sandra Tanner, 28:47)

• On Polygamy and Selective Acknowledgment:
  “...they are not given a name and a place in church history. For instance, [Eliza R. Snow] was Joseph Smith's plural wife. They don't say her last name, Eliza Snow Smith.” (Sandra Tanner, 31:20)

• On Gentle Evangelism:
  “...your loving discussion with them is really important to set the tone for their openness to ever talk to Christians again.” (Sandra Tanner, 37:21)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |--------------------------------------------|-------------| | Apostleship & Prophetic Authority Defined | 01:01–08:10 | | "Burning in the Bosom" and Testing Spirits | 10:38–12:04 | | Brigham Young’s Succession | 12:10–15:28 | | Modern LDS Apostles’ Authority | 15:53–17:32 | | Authority of "Miracle of Forgiveness" | 17:34–20:00 | | Doctrinal Changes & Church Transparency | 22:44–25:04 | | Polygamy and Church History | 29:58–36:37 | | Advice for Engaging LDS Members | 37:21–41:51 |

Conclusion

The episode delivers a rich, transparent discussion that reveals ongoing tensions within Mormon doctrine, authority, and historical narrative. Sandra Tanner’s insights—rooted in both personal experience and detailed research—offer listeners valuable strategies for engaging LDS beliefs with biblical discernment, respect, and grace. Listeners come away with a deeper understanding of LDS history, evolving teachings, and best practices for spiritual conversation.