Podcast Summary: Apologia Radio #375

Episode Title: The Alcoholics Anonymous Cult & Addiction
Date: January 11, 2022
Host: Jeff Durbin, with Luke and Joy
Theme: A biblical critique of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA), the 12-step model, and Christian approaches to addiction.

Episode Overview

In this episode, the Apologia Radio team addresses Alcoholics Anonymous and similar addiction recovery frameworks, presenting a critical, gospel-centered perspective. They make the case that AA (and similar programs) function as a “cult” or false religious system due to their non-Christian foundations and their approach to identity, sin, and recovery. The hosts also reflect on their own experience working with addicts in a church context, discuss the biblical view of addiction, and challenge the Christian adoption of secular or spiritually neutral addiction programs.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Personal and Ministry Experience with Addiction

• Jeff describes his background as a chaplain at a major addiction recovery hospital in Arizona, where he ran the Christian program and saw many come to Christ from addiction ([08:58]).
• Apologia Church itself was planted in a facility housing recovering addicts, with its early congregation largely composed of people in recovery ([12:40]).
• Quote: “I'd like to have you guys speak to this too... if you were to come to Apologia Church early on, we said this often, we were known as that drug church.” – Jeff ([12:40])

2. The Nature and Foundations of AA

• AA’s Secular/Pluralistic Approach: The 12-step model is critiqued for requiring belief in "a power greater than ourselves," yet intentionally making the identity of this power ambiguous (“as we understood him”), undermining the Christian gospel ([23:23]).
• False Religion Analogy: Jeff equates AA’s methodology to other false religions, suggesting it offers a Christless system of hope and salvation ([19:17]).
• Quote: “It is a false religion. It is a Christless system, and it is a...false message of hope and salvation. They need the gospel there.” – Jeff ([19:17])
• The requirement that members always identify as addicts (“I am an alcoholic”) is seen as antithetical to Christian identity in Christ ([34:12], [48:29]).

3. Identity in AA versus Identity in Christ

• The team strongly challenges the AA practice of claiming an addiction as a permanent identity, as opposed to the Christian teaching of transformation and new identity in Christ ([34:12], [48:29]).
• Quote: “From a Christian perspective, lies, lies, lies. Not true, not helpful at all. Not helpful to say, your identity now is forever wrapped up in this addiction.” – Jeff ([34:12])
• The repeated confession (“I am an addict”) is characterized as a denial of real heart change and the efficacy of the gospel ([34:40], [48:29]).
• Quote: “I've lost count how many people were ex addicts, came to Christ, put their addiction to death...I came to Jesus and it was gone.” – Luke ([28:07])

4. Critique of the Disease Model and Victimhood

• The shift from biblical language (drunkenness, idolatry) to modern secular terminology (disease, addiction, alcoholic) is highlighted as undermining personal responsibility and the biblical process of repentance ([41:18], [44:11]).
• Quote: “We've all been indoctrinated by our culture. Sometimes we don't even know what happened. We went from a model of this is a sin and you need to repent and turn to God from it...Now we have a model...the disease model of addiction.” – Jeff ([41:18])
• The disease framework is said to foster a victim mentality and hopelessness, as opposed to offering real change through Christ.

5. AA and Practical Benefits – Pitfalls of Utility without Truth

• The hosts recognize practical benefits of community, accountability, and structure in AA and related programs, but argue these benefits are not sufficient to justify their unbiblical foundations ([29:08]).
• Quote: “We acknowledge the practical benefits of a program like AA or NA or Celebrate Recovery. That's not the conversation that we're trying to have here…[but] we have to reject them because of their foundational beliefs.” – Joy ([29:08])

6. Celebrate Recovery: Christianizing the 12 Steps?

• Celebrate Recovery (a so-called Christian version of AA) is directly critiqued for “slapping” Bible verses onto an unbiblical recovery framework ([57:46]).
• Quote: “If a system is pagan from the beginning…no, I do not believe we should take a system like that... and plug Bible verses into the steps to say, let's make it Christian.” – Jeff ([57:46])
• They liken this attempt to “Christianize” secular frameworks to plugging Bible verses into Mormon or Scientologist addiction literature.

7. Biblical Approach to Addiction

• Addiction is framed as fundamentally an issue of idolatry and worship, not simply a behavioral problem ([39:22], [50:42]).
• The solution is presented as gospel-driven: repentance, new identity in Christ, sanctification, discipleship, and the support of the Christian community ([32:34], [56:46]).
• Quote: “You're not condemned. You have peace with God. You've been made alive spiritually. You have new hearts. All that's true in Christ. That's not what AA says. That's what the Bible says. That's the Christian message.” – Jeff ([50:42])

8. Calling on Churches to Reclaim Addiction Ministry

• Criticism of churches for outsourcing addiction help to secular programs and not being equipped or willing to disciple addicts in-house ([64:13]).
• Quote: “...the church has sort of like outsourced totally the issue of addiction, sort of completely to the secularists...And then we'll just send our people to you.” – Jeff ([65:24])

Notable Quotes and Timestamps

• On Why AA Is a False Religion
  “It is a false religion. It is a Christless system, and it is a...false message of hope and salvation. They need the gospel there.” – Jeff ([19:17])

• On Christian Identity
  “From a Christian perspective, lies, lies, lies. Not true, not helpful at all. Not helpful to say, your identity now is forever wrapped up in this addiction.” – Jeff ([34:12])

• On Heart-Level Change
  “If you get free from drug and alcohol addiction, but you don't have Christ, you don't have peace with Christ, you're still lost, you're still going to hell. And it's a moot point.” – Jeff ([32:20])

• On Celebrate Recovery and Repackaging Pagan Systems
  “If a system is pagan from the beginning…no, I do not believe we should take a system like that... and plug Bible verses into the steps to say, let's make it Christian.” – Jeff ([57:46])

• AA’s Approach to Identity
  “If I take a drink today after 25 years sober, I will spiral back into the life I had.” – Joy ([48:29])

• On Addiction as Worship and Idolatry
  “It's whatever you glory in and sacrifice to, that is what you're worshiping. That's what worship is. Glory and sacrifice, at minimum.” – Jeff ([50:43])

• On Community and Discipleship
  “There was a lot of intimacy... not a lot of pretending that everything was okay when it wasn't. And really just getting to know people at their, I guess, darkest.” – Joy ([15:26])

Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• [08:58] – Jeff’s background as a chaplain and history of Apologia Church with recovering addicts
• [13:03] – What Apologia was like in its early days (“that drug church”)
• [19:17] – Framing AA as a false religion and comparing to false gospels
• [23:23] – Breakdown of the 12-step model; where AA’s approach departs from Christianity
• [28:07] – Testimonies of people set free from addiction through Jesus, not AA
• [29:08] – Practical benefits of AA vs. foundational incompatibility with Christianity
• [34:12]–[34:40] – Discussion of identity in AA and Christianity
• [41:18] – Shift from “drunkenness” to “alcoholic”; the impact of secular psychology on the church
• [48:29] – The fear of alcohol and indoctrination from AA; how Christian identity should replace addict identity
• [57:46] – Analysis of Celebrate Recovery and critique of Christianizing pagan frameworks
• [64:13] – Critique of church leaders for outsourcing care of addicts to secular recovery groups

Memorable Moments

• Stories of Apologia Church’s origins among recovering addicts, and the authentic worship that arose in that brokenness ([14:33]).
• The challenge (and trouble) Jeff faced for teaching a Christ-centered approach within a secular recovery hospital ([54:00]).
• The group’s humorous stories of using a Breathalyzer, highlighting their hands-on commitment to pastoring ex-addicts ([69:32]).

Conclusion

The episode offers a robust critique of AA and similar addiction frameworks, urging Christians to reject secular (or pseudo-Christian) recovery programs on theological grounds—and to reclaim the work of discipling and caring for those struggling with addiction within the Church. Addiction is identified as fundamentally an issue of the heart, idolatry, and worship, only truly addressed through the gospel and new life in Christ—not through labeling, moral inventory, or the endlessly repeated identity of "addict." The hope of lasting freedom, according to the hosts, comes through Jesus, the Christian community, and biblical discipleship.

For listeners in recovery or for churches engaged in addiction ministry, this episode challenges the status quo and calls for a return to gospel-centered methods.