Apologia Radio Episode 515 Summary
Reacting to 1 Pro-lifer Vs. 25 Pro-Choicers
Date: March 14, 2025
Host: Jeff Durbin, with Zachary Conover

Episode Overview

This episode of Apologia Radio centers on a reaction and discussion to the Jubilee show episode featuring pro-life advocate Lila Rose debating the abortion issue with 25 pro-choice activists. Hosts Jeff Durbin and Zachary Conover use selected clips to comment on the logical, theological, and moral dimensions of the abortion debate, offering their perspective on pro-life consistency, gospel engagement, and the necessity of equal protection for the unborn under the law. The hosts also touch on recent pro-life legislative efforts and the role of the Christian worldview in public justice.

Key Discussion Points

1. Update on Legislative Efforts (03:18–07:17)

• Zachary updates listeners on recent End Abortion Now efforts, particularly in Georgia.
• Calls for Christians to fill the Georgia Capitol on March 26th to support HB 441, an abolition bill with significant legislative backing.
  • "Your presence means everything. ... March 26th, at the Georgia Capitol stand with us. We want to fill all those floors and all those halls with believers with signs to say pass HB441." (05:54)

2. Jubilee’s Format and Reflections on Lila Rose (07:17–09:57)

• The Jubilee channel format involves a "hot seat" for one advocate (Lila Rose) making claims, fielding responses from 25 pro-choice opponents.
• Hosts praise Lila Rose's intelligence, clarity, and courage for taking the "lion’s den" seat, even as they note points of substantive disagreement with her consistency and the pro-life establishment.
  • "You have to just double your amount of respect, too, for anyone that would go into the lion's den like this and ... in the center seat." (08:42 — Jeff)

3. Claim 1: Abortion Leaves Women Scarred for Life (09:57–17:09)

Key Exchange:

• A pro-choice woman claims that, due to her circumstances (domestic violence, drug addiction), regretting her abortion is not logical, challenging Lila’s assertion.
• Jeff & Zachary note the language of “my baby” as evidence of truth suppressed by conscience and opportunity for gospel outreach.
  • "There's the suppression pointed out. There's the image of God in you. There's what you know to be true." (13:09 — Zachary)
• Lila Rose's compassionate but direct approach:
  • “It does break my heart that if you’re sharing you had an abortion, that there could be a child ... who would be cheering you on, saying, go get 'em mom. You got.” (15:10 — Lila Rose)
• The hosts argue for directly addressing the guilt and shame that often follows abortion, emphasizing the need for gospel hope.

Memorable Quotes:

• Zachary: "I'm always looking for moments like that to turn it into an opportunity to remove their hands from trying to hide what they know." (13:12)
• Jeff: “The appropriate response that anyone should feel when they take another human life in an unjustified manner, they should feel a sense of guilt.” (20:27)

4. Authority and Bodily Autonomy Arguments (27:07–34:01)

• Pro-choice debater: Argues bodily autonomy supersedes life-preserving actions by the state.
  • "The right to someone's bodily autonomy supersedes the preservation of life." (27:27 — Paraphrased)
• Hosts’ Response: Expose the inconsistency—bodily autonomy is only granted selectively, not to the unborn.
  • "Either all humans have it or you’re deciding who gets it ... based on your own preference." (31:07 — Jeff)
  • "If bodily autonomy works for us, then it’s bodily autonomy for her and bodily autonomy for the baby inside the womb." (30:25 — Zachary)
• The hosts urge for an unqualified, non-partial approach to rights grounded in the Christian worldview.

5. Claim 2: Abortion Cannot Be Justified Under Any Circumstance (37:06–41:45)

• Pro-choice argument: Distinction based on dependency—embryos are not “independent” in the way newborns are.
• Hosts rebut: Point out the arbitrary nature of “dependency” as a standard for protection, and note that infants (and even adults at various points) are deeply dependent on others.
  • "We go in and out of the dependency our entire lives." (39:21 — Zachary)
  • "The dependency argument is bootleg. It's completely bankrupt." (40:18 — Zachary)

6. Claim 3: Every Unborn Child Has the Right to Life (43:06–53:24)

• Pro-choicer (Adam): Personhood begins at 22 weeks with "subjective experience," not at conception.
  • "A child implies a person. And I don't believe personhood begins until around 22 weeks..." (43:12 — Adam)
• Hosts critique:
  • Exposes the arbitrary and subjective standard (“Why 22 weeks?”) and points out this leads to inconsistency regarding other vulnerable humans (e.g. those in comas).
  • "If you don’t have this capacity ... we can therefore kill you? Nobody believes that because the line is arbitrary and he doesn’t believe it in the first place." (47:05 — Zachary)
• Christian position: All human beings are valuable from conception, grounded in being made in God’s image.
  • "If you’re a human, you’re a person." (50:31 — Jeff)

7. Ban & Criminalization Debate: Legal Status and Equal Protection (53:39–69:56)

• Lila Rose: Highlights banning abortion in "pro-life" states and importance of resources for mothers.
• Hosts correct: No state has truly banned abortion—“DIY” (self-administered) abortion is not criminalized; laws often shield mothers from prosecution, due in part to pro-life lobby’s influence.
  • "Abortion is not banned in any state in this union. ... They actually have written into their laws, their pro-life laws that abortion, these, these law, this shall not apply to the mother." (54:44 — Zachary)
• On Criminalization: Hosts push for equal legal treatment for all forms of murder, including self-induced abortion.
  • "If the woman is acting as her own abortionist, then by logical necessity, she would be an actor in this conduct and she would need to face the same legal proceedings..." (62:30 — Jeff)

8. Justice and Partiality in Law (65:15–69:56)

• Pro-choicer: If abortion is murder, why not punish the mother who “hires the hitman”?
  • "If you're calling it murder... then I'm hiring the assassin, so what should happen to me?" (67:06 — Pro-choice participant)
• Hosts: Agree, pointing to the logical consistency needed in law—equal protection and equal weights and measures.
  • "Let’s start with equal weights and measures. Let’s start with a just step towards what is righteous, good and true." (68:57 — Jeff)
  • "When it comes to crime in society, all of us recognize that we have to vilify certain actions..." (69:56 — Zachary)

Notable Quotes & Segment Timestamps

• "There's the image of God in you. There's what you know to be true." — Zachary (13:09)
• "If you're a human, you're a person." — Jeff (50:31)
• "Either all humans have it (autonomy) or you're deciding who gets it..." — Jeff (31:07)
• "We go in and out of dependency our entire lives." — Zachary (39:21)
• "If you're calling it murder... then I'm hiring the assassin, so what should happen to me?" — Pro-choice participant (67:06)
• "Let’s start with equal weights and measures." — Jeff (68:57)
• "When it comes to crime in society, all of us recognize that we have to vilify certain actions..." — Zachary (69:56)

Tone and Approach

The hosts balance theological rigor, apologetics, and social commentary with moments of personal reflection and storytelling. There is a clear emphasis on gospel application and seeking conversions, not just debate victories. They are consistently critical of inconsistency—both within the pro-life movement (especially the refusal to advocate equal legal protections for the unborn) and pro-choice participants (for arbitrary lines regarding personhood and rights).

Conclusion

This episode offers a robust defense of the pro-life position from a biblical perspective while emphasizing the need for equal protection in law, gospel compassion, and intellectual consistency. The hosts praise Lila Rose’s courage and clarity, while also challenging her and the wider pro-life movement to more fully align their strategies with biblical justice. Throughout, listeners are encouraged to engage legislatively, evangelistically, and relationally on abortion—grounding all discussion in the authority of God's Word.

For the full experience, refer to:

• 04:00–07:17: Legislative update and activism call in Georgia
• 09:57–17:09: "Abortion leaves women scarred for life" — pastoral observations
• 27:07–34:01: Bodily autonomy and Christian consistency
• 43:00–53:24: Personhood, value, and arbitrary lines
• 65:15–69:56: Legal ramifications, justice, and the call for consistency in law

(Non-content sections—advertisements, app promos, etc.—have been omitted for clarity.)