Apologia Radio Ep. 518: "Clashing With Georgia Legislators & Joel Webbon"

Date: April 8, 2025
Host: Jeff Durbin (Pastor Jeff, "The Ninja"), Luke “the Bear”, Pastor Luke, Zachary Conover
Theme: Gospel-Driven, Hard Hitting, Culturally Relevant Engagement on Abortion, Biblical Apologetics, and Methodology Critique

Episode Overview

This episode recaps Apologia's recent efforts at the Georgia state legislature regarding an abortion abolition bill, unpacks powerful moments and testimonies from the hearing, and transitions into an in-depth reflection on presuppositional apologetics. The conversation is also framed around pushback from critics—most notably Pastor Joel Webbon—on their apologetic methodology during legislative engagement. The hosts emphasize standing uncompromisingly on the authority of Christ and Scripture in sociopolitical activism, and dissect the strategy of appealing to both common ground and internal critique in dialogue with opponents.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Georgia Legislature Abolition Bill Hearing

• [02:00-06:40] The Scene in Georgia:

  • Huge turnout at the Georgia Capitol for the hearing on Rep. Emory Donahue's abolition bill; record attendance required fire marshal intervention.
  • Christians, pro-choicers, and the pro-life establishment were present—pro-lifers notably opposing the abolition bill.
  • "They had to call in the fire marshal… Christians were singing hymns, pro-choicers tried to answer with 'Old MacDonald Had a Farm.' It was… epic." — Jeff Durbin [04:00]
  • Legislators were reportedly shocked by the level of support for the bill.

• [06:45-10:12] Bill Status:

  • The bill was heard after Georgia’s “crossover day,” meaning it couldn’t be voted on this session but still gained momentum and public attention.
  • "A huge blessing… The hearing showed the unprecedented level of support. 25% of the Georgia House of Representatives was already on as co-sponsors." — Jeff Durbin [09:20]
  • Alabama and Ohio are next, with similar bills moving forward.

• [10:13-12:36] Personal Story – Dr. Coleman Boyd

  • Dr. Boyd, an ER physician and Trump-pardoned abortion ministry activist, shares his story: He and his wife adopted the baby of a 13-year-old rape victim.
  • This child became a living, beautiful refutation to the “what about rape?” objection.
  • "Her mother was a 13-year-old girl who was raped. We took her in, cared for her… She gave this precious life a chance, and now we’ve adopted her." — Jeff Durbin [10:25]
  • Social media post of their story went viral: "14.7 million views." [11:54]
  • On critics demanding to know if he’d adopted children: “Three.” [12:06]

2. Clash with Legislators: Testimony Highlights

• [14:33-18:33] The Hearing: The Rape Exception

  • Legislator’s closing comment invokes rape as justification for abortion; providentially, Dr. Boyd (with his adopted daughter, product of rape) testifies immediately after.
  • “She’s the exception everyone points to. She’s not an exception, she’s a glorious child. Thank you.” — Dr. Coleman Boyd [18:15]
  • Emotional response in the room; spontaneous applause despite rules.
  • “It was a powerful, powerful moment… I dare you to look into the eyes of this little girl and tell her she shouldn’t be here.” — Zachary Conover [19:05]

• [21:17-22:45] Jeff Durbin’s Testimony:

  • "This bill says what’s in the womb is human from fertilization—a biblical fact, an unassailable biological fact. It says every human in Georgia deserves equal protection." — Jeff Durbin [21:23]
  • Draws parallels to slavery and abolition: "We drew a circle around one group… Christians stood up and said equal protection, and we abolished slavery. We should abolish abortion the same way." [21:50]
  • Calls legislators to conscience and accountability before Christ: "You will answer to Christ for how you acted and responded on this very day." [22:28]

• [23:00-32:00] Distinctives in Apologia’s Method

  • Explicitly “no neutrality”—standing on Christ's authority, not just biology or secular moral agreement.
  • Presuppositional apologetics: “We have a revelational epistemology… Our certainty is not in neutrality, but in God’s revelation.” — Jeff Durbin [24:00]
  • Always calling hearers to repentance and reminding of the Day of Judgment.

• [32:22-41:52] Engaging With Jewish Legislator on Religious Liberty & Abortion:

  • Rep. Esther Panitch (Georgia's only Jewish rep) claims, "Judaism posits that the life of the mother is more important than the unborn… Are you telling me I don’t have a right to my religious liberty?" [33:24]
  • Jeff appeals to the common ground of the shared Scriptures (Law and Prophets): “Scripture teaches, without question, that from fertilization, human life begins.” [37:21]
  • When Panitch asserts abortion is a Jewish value and cites Israel's practice, Durbin counters: "What you're saying is a later Jewish tradition, not in the Law and Prophets." [44:53]
  • "We don’t believe anyone has the right to, with malice aforethought, take the life of another human being in an unjustified manner… No, you can’t kill your baby." — Jeff Durbin [55:52]

Notable Exchange:

• Rep. Panitch: "So Jews who don't believe like you are screwed under your bill."

• Durbin: "All biological science teaches that life begins at fertilization. That’s an unassailable, indisputable fact." [56:24]

• Reaction: Panitch is visibly flustered, pushing her mic away, unable to refute the biological claim.

• [57:37-61:37] On “Imposing Values”

  • The myth of “neutrality” is refuted: “Both sides are imposing values. The issue is life and death—my value leads to preservation of life, hers leads to the slaughter of human beings.” — Jeff Durbin [59:15]

3. Methodological Critique: Responding to Joel Webbon

• [65:57-83:37] Addressing Joel Webbon’s Criticism
  • Webbon, on X, argued: “You cannot combat this evil by appealing to common ground that does not exist” regarding interaction with the Jewish legislator.
  • Jeff pushes back, defending presuppositional methodology:
    • Common ground does exist—by virtue of (1) shared creaturehood (image of God), (2) professed commitment to the same Scriptures.
    • Paul’s Mars Hill approach is given as a biblical example of appealing to common ground (citing pagan poets, etc.). [71:41]
    • “To say you don’t have common ground is erroneous. Anyone who has studied presuppositionalism knows you start by finding it, then do the internal critique.” — Jeff Durbin [70:19]
    • Example: Same approach used with Mormons and Jews—appealing to shared sources and showing internal inconsistency.

Notable Quotes:

• “If you claim to be a presuppositional apologist but don’t understand this, you should not be teaching it.” — Jeff Durbin [45:41, 78:46]

• “How about we actually bring down every argument that exalts itself against the knowledge of Christ, not just call it evil and ignore it?” — Luke the Bear [84:54]

• “It’s not enough to say ‘Judaism is evil, your values don’t matter’—the better apologetic is to demonstrate, for all to see, that her profession isn’t consistent, and the biblical case is on our side.” — Jeff Durbin [82:46]

• [83:37-85:00] Pastor Luke:

  • Cautions that the “no common ground” stance mirrors the thinking behind dehumanization and oppression—undermines the scriptural and moral high ground needed in abolition and broader apologetics.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the power of personal testimony:

  • “She’s the exception everyone points to. She’s not an exception, she’s a glorious child. Thank you.” — Dr. Coleman Boyd (testifying with daughter, [18:15])

• On apologetic approach:

  • “There is no neutrality. We’re standing on the authority of Christ and the Word, not trying to win by secular biology alone.” — Jeff Durbin [23:00]

• On hypocrisy in moral reasoning:

  • “You can’t say, ‘Never again’ about oppression, then turn around and do the same thing to preborn children.” — Zachary Conover [48:36]

Important Timestamps

• 00:00-03:00 — Signature hard-hitting Apologia banter; setting aggressive, unapologetic tone.
• 03:00-06:40 — Overview of Georgia capitol events and the hearing.
• 10:13-12:36 — Story of Dr. Coleman Boyd and his adopted daughter; rape exception debate.
• 14:33-18:33 — Dr. Boyd’s legislative testimony on rape exception.
• 21:17-22:45 — Jeff Durbin’s official testimony to the Georgia House.
• 32:22-41:52 — Cross-examination moment with Rep. Panitch; “Judaism and abortion” debate.
• 57:37-61:37 — Refuting claims of neutrality and value-imposition; defining terms of the moral battle.
• 65:57-83:37 — In-depth response to Joel Webbon; defense and clarification of presuppositional methodology and the necessity of common ground in apologia.

Conclusion

This episode delivers a comprehensive overview of the Georgia legislative push for abortion abolition, spotlighting both the passion and strategy of Apologia’s approach. The hosts highlight the necessity of unwavering Christian conviction in the public sphere—rooted in Scripture, not mere political calculation or appeals to supposed neutrality. The powerful testimonies, especially from Dr. Boyd, humanize the often abstract arguments and showcase providential moments. Finally, the episode acts as a masterclass in presuppositional apologetics applied in real-life, high-stakes scenarios—insisting that truth, love, and intellectual rigor go hand in hand, while directly addressing critique from fellow Christian leaders for the benefit of the broader church.

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