520. President Trump Preaching the Gospel?

Summary

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Apologia Radio Episode 520: "President Trump Preaching the Gospel?"

Date: April 18, 2025
Host(s): Zach, Bradley
Theme: Gospel Driven, Hard Hitting, Culturally Relevant

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Apologia Radio, hosts Zach and Bradley react to President Trump's recent public statement proclaiming the gospel and comparing it with President Biden's prior "Transgender Day of Visibility" proclamation on Easter. They discuss the significance of gospel proclamation from high political office, skepticism about political leaders’ faith, the role of Christianity in politics, and how Christians should respond in this cultural moment. The tone is energetic, candid, and focused on gospel-centered cultural engagement.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: A Tale of Two Easter Proclamations

[07:37–10:01]

• The hosts begin by contrasting President Biden's 2024 Easter proclamation—which designated Easter Sunday as "Transgender Day of Visibility"—with President Trump's 2025 Holy Week statement, which explicitly centers on Jesus Christ's death and resurrection.
• Quote:
  "The official statement is this: Jesus Christ is the Son of God." —Bradley [12:00]
• The hosts highlight the stark moral and theological difference and express thankfulness for clear public affirmation of Christian faith at the highest national level.

2. The Gospel from the Oval Office: Praise and Caution

[10:01–16:49]

• While acknowledging Trump’s moral and spiritual shortcomings (and those of his advisors), they rejoice that Christ is "preached as Lord and Savior" [13:11].
• They cite Philippians 1, noting joy when Christ is proclaimed, even if the motives are mixed:
  "Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed. And in that I rejoice." —Bradley referencing Philippians 1 [12:23]
• The hosts call for prayer for President Trump’s genuine conversion and humility, likening him to Nebuchadnezzar post-trial.
• They caution listeners not to uncritically embrace any Christian political figure, emphasizing discernment and that praise should not equal blanket endorsement.

3. Playing Trump’s Gospel Clip and Social Media Post

[16:49–21:36]

• They play/quote Trump’s speech:

  "Nearly 2,000 years ago... the living Son of God entered Jerusalem in triumph... the Savior of mankind... was betrayed, arrested, and tried, beaten and nailed to a cross and crucified for our sake, he gave up his life... God proved his love on the cross. When Christ hung and bled and died, it was God saying to the world, 'I love you.' ...Three days later, Christ’s followers found the empty tomb... Jesus had defeated darkness and death and promised new life to all of humankind..." —Trump, quoted by Joe Boot [17:11–19:32]

• Trump’s clear reference to Jesus as "Lord and Savior, the living Son of God" is noted as remarkably explicit.
• Hosts highlight the positive cultural and theological impact of such proclamations, while reaffirming that public statements need to be matched with genuine faith and policy consistency.

4. The Real Work: From Top-Down Proclamation to Grassroots Gospel

[21:36–29:52]

• The hosts stress that although gospel proclamation at the top is a "mercy from God", lasting change comes from bottom-up gospel-driven cultural transformation.
• They urge listeners not to become complacent, but to use this window of relative freedom to boldly advance the gospel and work for righteous laws.
  • "My fear... is that too many Christians kind of just were like, 'yes,' and then didn’t do anything with it... We as the church now need to take advantage of this gift that God's given us and go forth with the gospel." —Zach [25:02–26:28]
• The limits of political leaders' influence are explored: "the president isn’t going to change everything... We need to start at the bottom..." [27:01–27:03].

5. Dangers & Warnings Against Mere Nationalism or Top-Down Christianity

[29:52–42:59]

• Addressing the rise of "Christian nationalism" and the "New Right," hosts warn against making any political movement or leader central ("anything you attach to an -ism tends to become the ultimate thing" —Bradley [34:41]).
• They discuss the temptation to turn to coercive political tactics, likening it to historical sacralism (state-imposed religion) and cautioning against repeating the errors that Covenanting forebears fled from.
• The gospel cannot be imposed by force; true change is through regenerate hearts, not mere law ([41:43–44:10]).
• They emphasize accountability:
  "If you say that Jesus is Lord, then you must obey him...By this profession, [leaders] have given Christians a standard by which to judge them." —Bradley [30:15]

6. Christianity and Politics: Inseparable and Inevitable

[44:10–53:52]

• Responding to a listener’s claim that "Jesus kept out of politics," the hosts refute the idea that faith and politics can be separated:
  • "Politics are nothing more than legislated morality... It’s not a question of whether we will legislate morality, but whose morality." —Zach [44:26]
  • They explain why the early Christian confession "Jesus is Lord" was inherently political and why the church's withdrawal from politics allowed secularism to flourish.
• They affirm a biblical role for civil government as God’s "ministry of public justice" (Romans 13), with different but complementary roles for church and state ([49:18–52:39]).

7. The Need for Explicitly Christian Engagement—not Mere Cultural Christianity

[53:52–58:51]

• Teaching "all that Christ commanded" involves pressing God’s law and gospel into every sphere of life, including politics.
• They celebrate the new boldness among Christian legislators advancing gospel-rooted policies and urge Christians to seek lasting, gospel-based change for the good of future generations.

8. Historical Perspective: The Covenanters, Sacralism, and the American Experiment

[58:51–62:01]

• Zach recounts a formative visit to Scotland’s Covenanter sites, describing their resistance to state-imposed religion – a key root of American religious and civil liberty.
• He argues America’s foundational political order itself stemmed from courageous Christians blending gospel boldness with principled resistance to political coercion.
• Quote:
  "The Covenanters... literally signed a national covenant in their own blood... What were they fighting? Sacralism." —Zach [60:37]

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Notable Quotes

• "When President Trump does something great, we're going to praise him. When he does something dumb, we're going to critique him, criticize him." —Zach [05:59]
• "How can you not appreciate the fact that there is a profession of Christ coming forth?... Even at that end of the spectrum, if you're giving Trump the least charitable... benefit of the doubt..." —Bradley [11:10]
• "If you say that Jesus is Lord, then you must obey him... Based on your profession of faith, discharge the duties that he's given you." —Bradley [30:15]
• "It’s a very dangerous thing to adopt the tactics of your enemy and attempt to baptize them in Christianity. I don’t think that that will end well." —Bradley [41:04]
• "The gospel doesn't go forth through coercion." —Zach [39:32]
• "Politics are nothing more than legislated morality... Christianity cannot exist separate from politics." —Zach [44:26]
• "We want righteousness in our land. We want holiness. We want God's law to be recognized and upheld..." —Bradley [22:08]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 07:37 | Contrast: Biden’s "Transgender Day" and Trump’s Holy Week proclamation
• 10:01 | The significance of Trump acknowledging Christ as Lord and Savior
• 13:11 | Philippians 1 and mixed motives: Can we still rejoice?
• 17:11–19:32 | Trump’s gospel proclamation speech (played and analyzed)
• 21:36 | Reading of Trump’s social media post for Easter
• 25:02–26:28 | The challenge for Christians: Don’t waste this opportunity
• 27:01–27:03 | Limits of presidential power & the need for grassroots action
• 29:52 | Christian nationalism, its promise, and its pitfalls
• 34:41 | Warning against any -ism becoming ultimate
• 41:43–44:10 | The limits of law: distinguishing imposed vs. proposed righteousness
• 44:10–46:00 | Responding to "Jesus was not political" objections
• 49:18–52:39 | Realms of church & state and biblically rooted public justice
• 60:37 | Covenanters and the fight against enforced sacralism

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Memorable Moments

• The humorous banter about ranks (King, Duke, Sergeant of Segways) [04:42–05:16].
• Respectful but clear skepticism about Trump’s spiritual maturity: "I definitely am not endorsing his spiritual advisor." —Bradley [13:50]
• The candid, lively way they urge Christians: "Now’s the time to cultivate the culture... Plant seeds. That’s what cultivating is; that’s where culture comes from." —Zach [28:18]

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Conclusion

This episode robustly tackles the implications of political leaders making explicit Christian statements and how Christians should respond: with prayer, discernment, and action, not passivity or unhealthy optimism. The hosts offer sharp critiques of both secularism and knee-jerk Christian nationalism, consistently rooting their perspective in biblical theology, historical precedent, and a call to active faithfulness in the church and the public square.

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Transcript

[Bradley]

Non Rockabotus must stop.

[Joe Boot]

I don't want to rock the boat.

[Zach]

I want to sink it. Are you gonna bark all day, little.

[Bradley]

Doggy, or are you gonna bite? Delusional. Yeah, delusional is okay in your worldview, I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you calling me delusional, using your worldview is perfectly okay. It doesn't really hurt.

[Zach]

She hung up on me. Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men. The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding.

[Bradley]

Them for their courage.

[Zach]

Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make rosives. Right. Don't go into the world and make homies disciples.

[Joe Boot]

I got a bit of a jiggle neck.

[Zach]

That's a joke.

[Bradley]

Pastor, when we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

[Joe Boot]

Take an amazing journey to a place.

[Zach]

That will blow your mind and move.

[Joe Boot]

Your heart so you will never be the same again.

[Zach]

Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preach to you what you received, in which you stand and by which you are being saved if you hold fast to the word I preach to you unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as a first importance what I also received. That Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures and that he was buried and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures. That, my friends, is First Corinthians 15, 1 4.

[Bradley]

I like how the soundtrack just kind of cut out as you read the reference of the verse. That was pretty.

[Zach]

Yeah, I didn't mean to do that, but it worked out.

[Bradley]

It was a welcome surprise. It was pretty metal, dude.

[Zach]

What's up, everybody? It's going to be a fun day today.

[Bradley]

It is.

[Zach]

I have reform con on the brain and I don't know what's going to come out of my mouth today. Pastor Jeff is taking care of some stuff here this morning. And so I am back in the captain's chair and I got, of course, little zezers here to my left, eats a pizza.

[Bradley]

What's up, everybody? Good to be with you today. So thanks for joining us.

[Zach]

Thanks for joining us. As I mentioned, reform con, we are one week away.

[Bradley]

One week.

[Zach]

Hopefully I'll be seeing a lot of you next week in Tucson, Arizona.

[Bradley]

You get to come to Tucson. Come on now. Come on, Tucson. Doesn't get enough love.

[Zach]

The best thing about Tucson is it's about 45 minutes away from Tombstone. That's the best thing about.

[Bradley]

Interesting.

[Zach]

Man.

[Bradley]

I haven't been there since I was. It's been at least 10 years. It's probably been 12 years. Maybe longer than that. Long time.

[Zach]

It's cool. I like Tombstone. It's just literally in the middle of nowhere.

[Bradley]

It is. But I love how they've preserved the remnants of the old town.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Bradley]

And if you're a fan of the movie Tombstone, there's a lot there to get you excited and reminiscent.

[Zach]

The best of both worlds.

[Bradley]

So fromcon, as we were saying, next week.

[Zach]

Very excited.

[Bradley]

I'm your Uncle Berry.

[Joe Boot]

Okay.

[Zach]

Yes. Come to reform Uncle Berry. It's going to be great. It's going to be really good.

[Bradley]

What do we got? We got Joe Boot. We got Andrew Sandlin speaking. We got Toby Sumter, Doug Wilson.

[Zach]

We do Jeffrey Durbin.

[Bradley]

Oh, of course.

[Zach]

James White.

[Bradley]

Granted.

[Zach]

Right. James White. That guy, that old Dr. James White. Virgil Walker is going to be there.

[Bradley]

I mean, because is there a better host for any event than Virgil Bowtie Walker?

[Zach]

He's going to be fantastic.

[Bradley]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Very excited.

[Bradley]

Dude is a spend some time with Dud.

[Zach]

So yeah, we do have some spots available. So if you want to come, there are some spots still. And I want to announce that we are doing a live stream for those that would like to be there but can't. So you can go to reformcon.org and there's a way to purchase a live stream if you want to check that out. So very excited about that. It's going to be good. We've been doing a lot of planning and right now it's just kind of everything's coming together and the theme is out from the Ashes. Out of the ashes.

[Bradley]

Out of the ashes.

[Zach]

Yeah. So how do we rebuild the culture that's been destroyed by the leftist agenda?

[Bradley]

So a good question. Upon what foundation are we building?

[Zach]

Which actually ties in really nicely with what we're talking about. You're the. You're.

[Bradley]

I don't know if you're the King of Segways, but you're like the Duke. You're like the Duke of Segways.

[Zach]

Is there like an S word that.

[Bradley]

Sergeant.

[Zach]

Sergeant Segways.

[Bradley]

Sergeant. So you're not quite a general or an admiral, but you're like. You've been promoted from Lieutenant and colonel.

[Zach]

Right.

[Bradley]

Depending on your branch. I don't even know the ranking.

[Zach]

Yeah. Branch. That's true.

[Bradley]

You should. You're a seal. So. Or at least a SEAL in training.

[Zach]

SEAL training. SEAL in training of Segways.

[Bradley]

That's it.

[Zach]

Anywho. So it's gonna be great. And I will say I'm just gonna get. Get this out of the way. Get this out of the way. I told you. It's gonna be a fun one. This show is about Donald Day Trump and the speech he gave yesterday. This is not an endorsement of all things Donald Trump. Are you sure?

[Bradley]

Because I feel like you've said this before, but do you really mean it?

[Zach]

I mean it. Don't get that out of the way because there's going to be people in the chat that want to come at us from both sides. We're going to talk about something really great that President Trump did yesterday that we're very thankful for. And the. The alternative to that would be a horror show.

[Bradley]

So you can see side by side in an official capacity.

[Zach]

Yes. So when President Trump does something great, we're going to praise him. When he does something dumb, we're going to critique him, criticize him. So all that to say before we get into the show. I do want to, of course, mention Ion Layer. You got your patch on today?

[Bradley]

No.

[Zach]

Oh, geez.

[Bradley]

No, I forgot it.

[Zach]

I got mine. It's okay.

[Bradley]

I probably have one left at this point.

[Zach]

Yeah. It's about time for another shipment. So, Iron Layer, you go to ironlayer.com their NAD patches are super awesome and helpful.

[Bradley]

And have you noticed their packaging, like, continually gets better?

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Bradley]

Like, with every box that comes in, they do something a little bit different and it's just, like, really smart and I really appreciate that.

[Zach]

Foam.

[Bradley]

Yeah. Everything is just like it started out as, like, okay, I got this. Where do I put this? And now it's like, I know where everything is and I know what order to do it. And it's packaged in such a way that it communicates to me what order to do it in. Like, that's. I like that a lot.

[Zach]

Well done.

[Bradley]

Thank you, guys.

[Zach]

Well done.

[Bradley]

You guys are getting better. I respect you and job well done.

[Zach]

So you can go to ironlayer.com, put apology in the coupon code, get a sweet discount. And of course, they also got the glutathione patches now as well. So grateful for them and partnering with us for the gospel. So, you know, our theme has always been the gospel heard around the world. And guess what? Yesterday, the gospel was heard around the world.

[Bradley]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, on a national scale and beyond.

[Zach]

Right?

[Bradley]

Yeah.

[Zach]

So let's just get right into it.

[Bradley]

So you're referring to.

[Zach]

I forgot to set the timer.

[Bradley]

This clip that we're about to play, Right?

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Bradley]

So. Oh, did you want to begin with that graphic, though?

[Zach]

Yeah. Let's start the graphics.

[Bradley]

So take a look at that, man.

[Zach]

So Zach sent this. Was it last week? A couple days ago. Yeah, he does. I'll pull this up here. Hold on one second. Okay. Gabe, can you look at that? Pull that up. So side by side here, or top and bottom?

[Bradley]

Can I read the first one?

[Zach]

Go for it.

[Bradley]

Read the second one. Now. Therefore, I, Joseph R. Biden Jr. President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim March 31, 2024, as Transgender Day of Visibility. I call upon all Americans to join us in lifting up the lives and voices of transgender people. And apparently, what the founders didn't understand is that somehow this is in accordance with the Constitution of our land. Somehow there's a connection there of some kind that someone could point to. Right. What are the. What are the. What does Bradley refer to it as? Like, it's in the penumbra.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Bradley]

Of the. Of the Constitution. Like, it's in the shadow.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Bradley]

Right. You can't really see it, but you got to read between the lines. It's there somehow. But anyways, what's the contrast of that. That President Trump.

[Zach]

Well, just so I want to mention that that was on Easter last year, Right. On Resurrection Sunday. That was what old Sleepy Joe resident Biden.

[Bradley]

Yeah. Said Transgender day.

[Zach]

Visibility.

[Bradley]

Visibility.

[Zach]

So apparently they were invisible before that day, and now they're visible. So I don't know if they had, like, a cloaking device or something. Anyways, I just noticed the logo. I didn't notice that till just now. The White House logo he had has an Easter bunny and little Easter eggs around.

[Bradley]

Oh, my, oh, my, oh, my, oh, my.

[Zach]

That was. That's fun. So that was last year. That's the. That's. I mean, we would have been facing probably even worse than that this year if. Yeah.

[Bradley]

So one year later, Kamala got elected. One year later.

[Zach]

So this is what President Trump posted this Holy Week. Melania and I join in prayer with Christians celebrating the crucifixion resurrection of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, the living son of God, who conquered death, freed us from sin, and unlocked the gates of heaven for all humanity. What a contrast.

[Bradley]

Oh, man. There's a few things you could say, right? Because we certainly have our qualms with President Trump. I think we live In a nation that allows us the luxury of being able to criticize our leaders, which I'm thankful for, I hope you are, too, because that is free speech, the ability to hold your leaders, those who manage your nation, the welfare of its citizens, all of those blessings and benefits that the Christian worldview gave us. It allows us as Christians to maintain that foundation that says there's a standard outside of government to which government is accountable in all of the various spheres.

[Zach]

Right.

[Bradley]

Whether we're talking about family, ecclesiastical, or the civil sphere. Like there is a transcendent standard outside of and above the king and above earthly officials, earthly rulers that they must point to. And here you have question the man's testimony or not, a statement made about the living Son of God, a profession, if you will, being declared over these United States, whether that profession that Donald Trump holds is congruent with a genuine testimony. Right. Whether or not he is regenerate, whether or not he has been born again. How can you not appreciate the fact that there is a profession of Christ coming forth? I mean, I think about the, you know, there's a correlation with the magi, Right. The pagan astrologers at the time of Christ's birth. Right. They were going to worship the king. These are pagans. Right. So even at that end of the spectrum, if we're talking about, if you're giving Trump the least charitable, you know, benefit of the doubt in terms of his profession of faith.

[Zach]

Sure.

[Bradley]

Like you have to, number one, appreciate from a year ago where we are now.

[Zach]

Sure.

[Bradley]

Right. The highest office in our nation. The official statement is this. Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

[Zach]

Yeah. I mean, he even added Lord and Savior.

[Bradley]

Lord and Savior.

[Zach]

That's called worship, salvation.

[Bradley]

I'm thinking about that verse because we're about to listen to a clip of him addressing in light of this statement. And of course, it's mixed with the self exaltation and the greatness of this administration. And then there's Christ woven in there. And I just think about Philippians, chapter one, where it talks about some indeed breach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from goodwill. The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the Gospel. The former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ has proclaimed. And in that I rejoice. Like I rejoice. I rejoice that the highest office of our land, whether or not it's genuine, whether or not. There are problems in the Trump cabinet and administration with false heretical prosperity, word of faith teachers which have to go. Yeah, there's no question about that. I rejoice that Christ has preached as Lord and Savior.

[Zach]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I'm going to. We'll talk about this after I play the clip. Like, how does, how does this impact our nation and culture? I kind of put that in the description. But, yeah, I mean, we. I'm not gonna. I don't know Trump's heart. You know, I pray that he is truly repentance. And like, that's my prayer. You know, he obviously says and does things sometimes that makes me question that, but that's our prayer for him. And, you know, I. I don't know. I'm not gonna make a statement on that. And like you said, I was gonna say, I definitely am not endorsing his spiritual advisor.

[Bradley]

No chance.

[Zach]

Anyone I would recommend at all.

[Bradley]

No chance at that. But what you just said, we ought to pray. We ought to pray first Timothy 2 for kings. So that we lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. And that, I believe, no matter which way you slice it, has been a mercy from God that we've at least been given a leader who looks like he will allow us to do that to some extent, to propagate the Christian message, which I'm thankful for.

[Zach]

Yeah, for sure. And my prayer, I've talked about this before, but my prayer is that President Trump would be like Nebuchadnezzar in a good way, because he definitely has. That you mentioned earlier. He definitely has that instinct to talk about himself and puff himself up and talk how great and he is and his administration is and all that, which is very much like Nebuchadnezzar, which is why he ended up eating, you know, grass like a. Like a cow for a while. And so my prayer has been since the assassination attempt, because he's very clearly, a number of times credited God for saving him.

[Bradley]

Yeah.

[Zach]

For a very specific reason and purpose. So my prayer has been like, well, maybe that will humble him and allow him to live in such a way that he truly tries to honor God and his laws and makes wise and righteous decisions.

[Bradley]

Yeah. Because I'm sure, like you said, he views that being saved from that death, near death experience as the mercy of God in his life. I don't see how you could get around that. It's just. And I know that gets messy when people with such a nationalistic fervor on one side of the Political aisle are like, he's the savior of America and he's going to make everything better. Don't worry. Just watch, wait and see. And, you know, and the praise sometimes tends to, you know, there tends to be a little bit of an imbalance there.

[Zach]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bradley]

And I know people are eager and excited to be living under a better administration in comparison to the previous one that we had. I'm hopeful. I'm prayerful also about this, too. But either way, the fact that this was proclaimed, the fact that Christ and his name were published as the Lord, that is a good thing.

[Zach]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I'm going to get into it because I'm holding off on what you were alluding to, because I want to talk about that. But let's go ahead. We'll get into this clip then. So like I said, this is yesterday. And I think this, I mean, I think I saw a CNN background on this possibly. I don't know where he was at, actually, where he gave the speech I saw on the Blaze. But anyways, Gabe, can you go ahead and pull that up and let's just get right into this here.

[Bradley]

C span.

[Zach]

C span. That's what it was, not cnn. I don't know why we don't have any volume. Some sound there. My volume's all the way up. No, it's not. I lied. That was my fault. Let me try that again.

[Bradley]

Let's do it.

[Zach]

Let's turn it all the way up. Here we go.

[Joe Boot]

Nearly 2,000 years ago, during the Sacred Week, the living son of God entered Jerusalem in triumph. Soon after, the savior of mankind, who brought truth and light into the world, was betrayed, arrested and tried, beaten and nailed to a cross and crucified for our sake, he gave up his life. And as the very great Reverend Billy Graham once said, God proved his love on the cross. When Christ hung and bled and died, it was God saying to the world, I love you. Those are beautiful words from a great man, Franklin. Right? A great man, Franklin's incredible father. I went to Yankee Stadium with my father many years ago to watch your father. You think we have big crowds today? It was some crowd. Never forget it. So thank you very much. And thank you for being here, Franklin, very much. Three days. Your father would be very proud of you, by the way. Incredible job. Three days later, Christ followers found the empty tomb. Jesus had defeated darkness and death and promised new life to all of humankind. And that's what we celebrate each year at Easter, as we joyfully proclaim on Sunday, he is risen. The death and resurrection of Jesus are the essence of the Christian faith. Whether rich or poor, healthy or sick, young or old, or in times of peace or war, Christians everywhere find solace and hope in the knowledge that Christ died for them and that they could be united with him in heaven. And that's what we want. That's what we all want. The miracles of Holy Week set in motion a transformation in human existence. Countless millions of Americans have been moved by Christ's example to heal the sick, defend their families, lift up their communities, and make our country stronger, better, and greater than ever before with God's grace over these past three months. And we have had a great three months, they say maybe the best three months ever.

[Bradley]

So there's that, there's that weaving of the, you know, self exaltation in there.

[Zach]

He's like, as well, the best three months ever since the resurrection of Christ 2,000 years ago.

[Bradley]

It's almost. Yeah. Who knows, maybe he wanted to say it, but he decided against it. Better judgment.

[Zach]

But how about that, though?

[Bradley]

How about it?

[Zach]

I mean, that's about as clear of a gospel presentation as you can get.

[Bradley]

I mean, in comparison to it, too. Or along with it, I should say. Here's one of the things that he posted on social media on the 13th. This Holy Week, Christians around the world remember the crucifixion of God's only begotten son, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. And on Easter Sunday, we celebrate his glorious resurrection and proclaim, as Christians have done for nearly 2000 years, he is risen. Through the pain and sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, we saw God's boundless love and devotion to all humanity. And in that moment of his resurrection and history was forever changed with the promise of everlasting life. As we approach this joyous Easter Sunday, I want to wish Christians everywhere a happy and very blessed holiday. America is a nation of believers. We need God. We want God. And with his help, we will make our nation stronger, safer, greater, more prosperous, and more united than ever before. Thank you and happy Easter. So again, where was that at? This was. I think he posted this on True Social. Okay, so that was. Yeah, one of his posts. Yeah, I'm. It's encouraging. I mean, obviously, anytime the name of Jesus is lifted up over your nation and those things are being acknowledged publicly in a manner that is similar to the founding of our nation. Right. Where Christ's name was lifted up like there's a. What a leader is saying is, listen, the source of these blessings that we enjoy.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Bradley]

The prosperity, the success can never be Disconnected from the God who gives them. Right.

[Zach]

Right.

[Bradley]

And I think if I could go further with this, of course I would want to do here. It has to be explicitly Christian as this is, and it has to be tied to an understanding of, you know, righteousness. Right. So Proverbs says, righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people. We want. We don't just want prosperity in our land.

[Zach]

Right.

[Bradley]

We don't just want peace, we don't just want material betterment. Right. A recovery of the American dream, you know, a certain way of life. Our priority as Christians has to be this. We want righteousness in our land. We want holiness. We want God's law to be recognized and upheld as the all sufficient standard for conduct, for behavior. We want to see the principles contained in God's law enacted into statutes that inform the legal proceedings of our courts, our judges. We want them to speak according to scripture. And on that line, there's a lot of work to be done from a cultural standpoint, from those that are fighting to make a difference in Trump's administration right now, that are solid Christians, like, praise God that they have an opportunity to do that. Praise God that he has placed them in that position where they can have President Trump's ear, where they can be that godly influence. Like, I'm immensely thankful for them because it's not just changing law, shaping public policy, it's continually being salt and light in that cultural position to proclaim the truth to the magistrates. Right. There has to be that so that you have the beauty and the harmony together of the civil sphere and the law being buttressed and supported and informed by the biblical standards at the cultural level. And those things work together like it's a very good thing when the highest office in your land is proclaiming Christ. It needs to. I mean, the pressure needs to be continually turned up from the bottom at the what I would call the ground level or foundational level or the revival level. Right. Where God grants the changes of a new heart, where he, if he is pleased to, barring repentance, he brings revival to a nation and pours out his spirit on this land. So bottom up transformation is obviously ideal, but it's also a very good thing when you have things like this happen from the top down.

[Zach]

Sure.

[Bradley]

So I don't know if you would want to add to that in any way.

[Zach]

Well, yeah, so. Well, one, I appreciated the first point you're making there. You know, prosperity, peace, you know, all these different things that we want to attain for our nation, they, they're fleeting and they won't last. They won't last if they don't have a righteous foundation.

[Bradley]

Yeah.

[Zach]

So that's what we're saying is like, in order for us to obtain those things long term, right, for them to have longevity, they need to be built upon biblical principles and righteous laws. And laws. And so, you know, the only way to do that is when you give credit to God as the, the author of that and the foundation of, of those objective standards. So. Yes, and amen. That's, that's a great point. I was glad you brought that up. And yeah, I mean, that kind of brings me into kind of, you know, ask the question like, what does that mean? What does this mean, you know, for our nation now? And I saw someone in the comments said, don't let's not drink the Kool Aid. It's like, okay, this is what it means. It means that God is, for some unknown reason, granted us a tremendous blessing that we don't deserve as a nation. He's given us at least four years here to have some freedom to preach the gospel, to try to get righteous laws enacted. And so my fear, because, look, Trump was elect, you know, was president before, and I think too many Christians kind of just were like, yes. And then didn't do anything with it. Right. Because then we saw what happened the next four years. And so we have four years here. And, you know, I'm not going to get into how many years we actually have, but just, yeah. For the sake of conversation, we as the church now need to take advantage of this gift that God's given us. Right. And go forth with the gospel.

[Bradley]

Advance.

[Zach]

Advance the gospel everywhere we can, in every area of life, every sphere of government. We need to be bold about it because he's allowing us this opportunity to do it. Because if, you know, and again, if Kamala would have been elected, we wouldn't be having this. We wouldn't be having this conversation. We'd be having a much different conversation.

[Bradley]

You certainly wouldn't get a statement like that.

[Zach]

Exactly. You know, and we've talked about this, the way our government's set up, you know, we can get into more of this, but just the president isn't going to change everything.

[Bradley]

You know, it's not his job anyways.

[Zach]

Right, exactly. We need to start at the bottom of. And that's what you're talking about. And this is where our post millennial view comes in, even in our theonomic view is like, it starts with the gospel and that's what we're saying is we have to be bold now with the gospel. We have to go forth, we have to be calling our legislators to repentance, you know, and take advantage of the gift, the opportunity that God's given us. And we've, we've as post moonless, realize this is a long term thing and realize that only real true change comes through the gospel. Which is why it's such a big deal that President Trump proclaimed the gospel to the world yesterday. Like, because it doesn't just affect our nation and our culture either. It affects a lot of other nations who kind of follow our lead. And you know, you look at the stuff going on in Canada and the UK who, those nations are usually very connected to us. And you know, I pray for them. Goodness gracious. You know, that's a whole nother conversation. But so that's, that's what, that's when I hear that, that's what I think is like, let's not be lazy now. Let's not sit back and say, yay, we have victory for four years and just sit back and continue to let the culture rot. Like, now's the time to cultivate the culture. Right. And to plant seeds. And that's what cultivating is. That's where culture comes from. So to me, that's what that means. And I know, because you were kind of alluding to this earlier was the, the other perspective right now that we're in disagreement with would be, you know, the Christian, the Christian nationalist. Yeah, the Christian nationalist perspective, or some.

[Bradley]

People are calling it the new right.

[Zach]

Yeah. And they're also praising God, that Trump did this and rightfully so. But the concern I have is that from that perspective, it's like we have a Christian prince now preaching the gospel top down. And that in the end is not going to change anything because we saw again, Trump did something similar to this, I would say a watered down version of this the first four years. And that didn't do anything. It's got to start, it's got to be start with the individual worked from the family to the church to the civil level. You know, the gospel's got to permeate all these different spheres and that's how we're going to see long sustaining, objective change. And so yes, praise God. Yes. And amen. Thank you. That President Trump was able to give the gospel like that. But that's not where, like that. Instead of that being where it starts, that should be where it ends. Right. You know what I mean? Like from the lowest to the highest, not the highest of lowest. And so anyways, that's kind of the conversation I want to dive into here. But what are you thinking?

[Bradley]

I agree with just about everything. I think what I see too, this is the first thing I'll say is I'm also encouraged because when you have a public statement like this, you have the ability to hold leaders accountable to it. If you say that Jesus is Lord, then you must obey Him.

[Zach]

Yes.

[Bradley]

You must discharge, based on your profession of faith, the duties that he's given you. And you must do so in a way that honors him. And how do we measure whether or not something is pleasing to him or not? By Scripture, by the word of God. And so now your leaders have placed into your hands as Christians, a standard by which to judge them. We had it before. It wasn't like it wasn't there. And it's not like we're not going to do it anyways. But they have, with this profession, said Jesus is the Son of God. Do we appreciate what that means? The one who rose from the dead. If Jesus rose from the dead, that's it. He has all authority. That means he gets to tell everybody what to do. And if you're professing that with your lips, then that means he's your master. And so, man, as I'm thinking about that statement, it is big. I mean, you have the leader of our nation affirming the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. If you affirm that he rose, then you must also affirm that he ascended and that he's seated at the right hand of God, ruling and reigning, and that he's the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords.

[Zach]

Yeah, right.

[Bradley]

You see that connection, we just usually don't put that into our statements or highly value that in our churches. The ascension, what that means, and the session of the Lord Jesus, the ongoing rule of the enthroned Messiah who is alive from the dead forevermore. And what that means. That means there is a man in heaven by whom God will judge the world in righteousness. And that includes men in every sphere of authority, like the president. And so, man, what an opportunity. What an opportunity to point to the standard. And that's why that leads me to the second thing I want to say is what I see a lot in some circles that are connected to this administration that love Jesus, that are solid Christians, that uphold biblical fidelity and authority, that do preach the gospel. There. There seems to be a tendency in some of these camps to kind of blur the explicit lines of distinction, though, kind of Trying to create, like, a mere Christianity movement. Like, okay, like Catholics are okay too. Like you. Like this. Trump's your guy. I've even seen, seen some to say, you know, they're not mistake. They're mistaken on a few things. They do some weird stuff, but they have the same gospel. Not true. Not if they affirm the Council of Trent.

[Zach]

Right.

[Bradley]

It's not true. And so that's another concern that I see from the New Right, the Christian nationalists. Like, I think I saw a clip of Charlie Kirk being asked that on TikTok or something. Like, you know, he's like, I don't call myself a Christian nationalist, but he's giving all these biblical examples of, you know, Esther and Mordecai and Moses and, you know, seeking the welfare of the city you've been sent to. And listen, I think Doug Wilson has done a good job of defining or classifying nationalism simply as an ideal system of organizing society. Right. Like, we're not globalists. We don't want society organized in that way. And we also don't want a tribalist mentality, too, where things are organized in that fashion. Like, national ism is a. Is a good way to organize or to structure the social fabric of society. Right. Because then you have borders, you have nations, natural boundaries for their own, and et cetera, et cetera. So that's great, if that's what you mean. Like, the ideal way to organize a society is like this, because that accords, I think, with Scripture. Right. The gospel goes out to all the nations. Jesus said, all the nations belong to me. They're mine. Go get them. Right. Disciple them, teach them all that I have commanded you. Right. Make sure they obey. So that's a great thing. But again, the concern or the issue is anything that you attach to an ism tends to become the ultimate thing.

[Zach]

Yes.

[Bradley]

Whereas Christians always need to be concerned first and foremost with the priority of our lives being the kingdom, the kingdom of God that is our highest allegiance, the mission of Christ, the missio DEI in the world. And yes, that includes evangelizing and discipling our nation. And in order to do that, we have to keep the lines sharp. We can't settle for a mere Christianity, kind of a general, you know, Christian thing. But, you know, they affirm God, but they're basically outside by their affirmation of this gospel, or they're allowing false doctrine and false teachers in because they profess Christ as well. Like, we have to monitor and police this in accordance with sound doctrine. Still, it has to be explicitly Christian and It has to be based on the gospel. Right. It can't be a unity that is based on anything else. If it's not based on the gospel, it's not going to defeat the darkness in our land.

[Zach]

Yeah, amen. And I liked the point you just made there a second ago. You know, so now, so, you know, going back to Trump's speeches, like, yes and amen. Now kiss the sun unless you get smoked. That's the Ben Merkel translation, right? To yes. Okay, now do this.

[Bradley]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Obey his laws and his statutes. It's great. That was an excellent point. You know, and I'm seeing some people in here like, look, again, I hate to have to keep beating this drum, but I can't. I can't judge Trump's heart. I can't say whether or not what he said was from pure intentions or if he was just being a good politician. I don't know. But what I do know is that the lordship of Christ was proclaimed, and so we can celebrate that whether or not it was through a crooked man or not it was proclaimed. And God will, you know, use crooked sticks, obviously, to draw a straight line. So, so praise God for that. And so, you know, I, again, like, what we can't do is become dependent on, on a Christian prince, right? Because even with Trump saying this, like we're even saying, is he a trustworthy Christian prince? Is he a Christian prince? You know what I mean? And I know, like, a lot of, like to use Constantine as an example. And I know you, you probably know where I'm going to go with this. I just, Joe Boot just did a podcast. We both listened to it separately, but we talked about Constantine. And I didn't even realize this. You know, everyone credits Constantine as being this great Christian prince because, you know, obviously there was Council of Nicaea and all the stuff that went on. And like, he, you know, made it a Christian nation and all this. And then what I didn't realize that he actually would have sided with Arian if it was up to him, you know, and so, and so what we're trying to avoid is where it becomes the top down dictating the church. And that's sacralism, which Dr. White has talked a lot about.

[Bradley]

It's important, I think, because I think a lot of people might see great contrast between use the historical example of Constantine, like what was going on in the church prior to this persecution, like, tremendous persecution of Christians. And then things really began to turn around after a historical point in which Christians were now enjoying these protections. Now for Their faith. And you could see how the young men in particular of our day who have been beaten down by the political left and all these wicked ideologies, the dei or die, more aptly called. Basically those in the world of the woke influence who have tried to browbeat men into submission and tear down their masculinity and their God given calling and feminize them to no end and basically teach them to hate themselves from a very young age. You could easily see with this now a reaction coming back from that side to say, now we are the ones in charge. Now we have the levers of power and guess what? What you did to us, we're going to do the same to you.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Bradley]

And so there's this kind of again, another concerning thing. Anytime I hear someone talk like this, it's like, well, you know, the left did this all the time. This was their playbook. And so we have to adopt that and we have to do the same thing back to them. I don't think that that's going to end up where you want it to. I don't think that the way to beat the left is to outlift them. I think that we have to defeat lies with the truth, not with brute power.

[Zach]

Right. The gospel doesn't go forth through coercion. Right. And yes, we have a man at the top proclaiming the gospels, although the.

[Bradley]

Role of the state is coercive in a lot of ways. Yes, but we want men who are enforcing the coercion, right, the law. Enforcing the law. Right. Governing in accordance with the rule of the law, to have regenerate hearts. That's our ultimate hope. Like we don't want the unregenerate bearing the sword in vain.

[Zach]

Right.

[Bradley]

The end result of that will not be good in the long run. We might have what we perceive to be political victories up front. And yes, this is our time now and we're going to crush the left.

[Zach]

Which we hope does happen. But it has to come through the Gospel.

[Bradley]

I pray in accordance with the Psalter that God crushes his enemies. I can pray those prayers and be a consistent Christian. Right. We can pray things like, God, grant the wicked repentance the way that you granted me repentance, the way that you saved me and opened my eyes to hear your truth. I pray the same thing for them. I pray that you would convert them and take your enemies and turn them into friends, just like you did for me. But if you choose not to do that, I do pray that you crush them in your timing and in your way so that they do not make further progress.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Bradley]

And impede the advancement of the gospel and the Christian faith, bringing further judgment upon themselves in the process and further destruction upon the innocent around them. Like we should be able to pray like that and we should be able to trust God with it. But I think the point that I'm getting at here is that it's a very dangerous thing to adopt the tactics of your enemy and attempt to baptize them in Christianity. I don't think that that will end well. I think we need to use the means and method that God has given us.

[Zach]

Yeah. And I mean, here's the point we're getting to is, you know, you could enforce righteous laws, which we want, but if it doesn't come with the gospel, there aren't changed hearts and minds. It's just temporary. Right. Because then what we will see is the next four years if people get tired of Trump and, you know, Christianity being proclaimed by Trump and they vote for someone else that's a leftist liberal, then all that, all those laws are meaningless if they're not built on the foundation of the gospel. Yeah. If people's hearts and minds are changed, they're not going to be long lasting. That's what we're trying to get to and that's what we're trying to avoid is just this again. When I said the gospel is not preached through coercion. You can't force people into trusting in Christ. You can force them to obey righteous laws. But that's a different category than the gospel of Jesus Christ.

[Bradley]

Right. It'd be the difference between imposing the truth and proposing the truth.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Bradley]

So we put it forward to the law and to the testimony. They won't speak according to this word is because they have no light in them. This is God's standard. This is what we're pointing to. And we propose that by saying the Christian faith and message has this superior hope for all of humanity. There's nothing that can compare with it. There's nothing that can touch it. And if you reject God's word, you are reduced to absolute absurdity in every category. And we make our case at all of these levels that God has given us the ability to do so, whether it's before kings or before our kids. Like we propose the truth, we put it forward and say, this is the standard, this is what's good, this is what's right, and this is what's true. And we trust God to pour out his spirit and to open people's eyes so that they can see it and to open their hearts so that they can love it. Which goes back to righteousness. We want people crying out for righteousness. We want that to be the cry of their hearts. We want them to not just act righteously, but to love righteousness.

[Zach]

Yeah. So this actually, this is going to bring us to a really great conversation here. That gets me excited. So someone in the comment section said Jesus said his kingdom was no part of this world. He kept out of politics.

[Bradley]

Oh my.

[Zach]

Okay, so.

[Bradley]

Oh my, my, my.

[Zach]

I say this all the time. Borrow this from Joe Boot. Politics are nothing more than legislative morality. So it's not a question of are we going to legislate morality, but whose morality are we going to legislate? Christianity cannot exist separate from politics. Like, again, because we're talking about, we're talking about moral objectives here. Objective truth, objectively righteous laws and decrees. And you know, the early church was a direct affront to put to the political system the term, you know, Jesus is Lord, no king but Christ.

[Bradley]

A political statement.

[Zach]

Political statement. Because what people were saying is there's no king but Caesar. And so when the Christians started saying there's no king but Christ, they were getting put to death for that.

[Bradley]

Right.

[Zach]

That is a political statement.

[Bradley]

Yeah. The political authorities of the day understood.

[Zach]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so to suggest that. This is why, I think, I mean, I don't want to rabbit trail too much. This is why I believe our culture is where it is. Because the church has had that mentality that we don't get involved in politics and therefore we just let the culture just do what it wants. Right. And we let them legislate what they want because that's political and Christ isn't lord over that realm. And so, you know, we're getting into the two kingdom type theology here now, but.

[Bradley]

And then we're surprised when it. Yeah, forgive me, but goes to hell.

[Zach]

Exactly. And one of my favorite verses in Proverbs is where there's no prophetic vision, the people cast off restraint. Blessed is he who keeps the law. That's what we're seeing. The people cast off restraint. I mean, there's been no prophetic vision, meaning the church hasn't proclaimed the lordship of Christ into all areas of life, including politics. And now we're seeing that people have cast off restraint and that's where we're at. But blessed is he who keeps the law. That is a biblical principle. Yeah. And you can't avoid that. And to say that as Christians we should avoid that is just saying that we need to Just sit back in our little bunkers and let the culture do its thing and just wait for Jesus to come get us. And I don't see that anywhere in Scripture. It certainly doesn't jive with the Great Commission, that's for darn sure.

[Bradley]

Right. And to the point that Christians have abdicated their duty and political involvement. Like, we see it as dirty. We see it as something that's worldly. Right. Not as heavenly. It's a distraction from kingdom work. But I just don't think that could be any more mistaken. Politics involves people and the laws that govern them. So all public policy, whatever it is, is going to be driven by a moral vision. It's just inescapable because politics involves how we treat people and what are people. Right. If you're going to make the claim that Jesus didn't have anything to say about politics, what did he affirm? He affirmed that people are made in the image of God and that a moral vision will guide how we treat them. And when that vision is secular, pagan or otherwise non Christian, the social fabric of our society crumbles. It breaks down. And only a biblical world and life view that is rightly applied can lead to the kind of social flourishing that allows us to continue spreading the Christian message and doing evangelism and discipleship. So there's a beautiful relationship between the political sphere, the responsibility of civil government, which God gave as a ministry of protection. Romans, chapter 13. To punish evildoers and reward the righteous. But we have such a deficient theology of the state in evangelicalism today. When you mentioned the Great Commission, like Jesus commissioned us to disciple the nations, that would include those in authority over the nation. Yeah, right. It's a ministry to the magistrate. So to say that, you know, just because Jesus said, you know, my kingdom is not of this world, meaning that his kingdom does not advance in the way that the kingdoms of this earth do. Right. What does he say? He says the lords of the Gentiles lord it over them. Right. They hold their authority over them. And the way that Christ's kingdom advances is through servant dominion. That's why magistrates are called ministers of justice. That's what the word minister means. Servant.

[Zach]

It literally, Romans 13 is Deacon.

[Bradley]

It's a ministry of public justice.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Bradley]

That's what civil servants are charged or commissioned by God to carry out is a ministry of public justice. And they're going to do that by way of a particular moral vision. It's either going to be, quote unquote, secular, a rejection of God and his moral laws and Norms, it's going to be pagan, informed by some aberrant worldview, or it's going to be Christian. And which worldview, which moral vision leads to the flourishing of human civilization? I think we can look at history and see in the Western world which societies have had the most blessing from top to bottom, talking about any kind of area. Education, government, healthcare, arts, literature, the scientific advancement, care of the vulnerable and the innocent, treatment of the poor, the elevation of the dignity of women, all of these areas. Christianity is radically superior than anything that has come before, has elevated society to such an extent, and that politics has a role to play in that. There's no getting out of that. So even though Christ didn't lay out external plans for setting up a just public order, he did give us certain principles, knowing that the power of spiritual liberty would produce the form of political freedom. Right? In other words, what we see in the public is a reflection of people's hearts. And that's why men need to experience the liberty of the Spirit of the Lord. And that leads to liberty in a nation from a public perspective. Because here's a couple things that Jesus did affirm. He did affirm that the Lord is sovereign over the magistrates when he goes before Pilate. Jesus said, you would have no authority over me unless it had been given to you from above. So he's asserting that civil government is delegated and it's controlled by God and that all rulers everywhere are accountable to their maker. And then second, what I just said a minute ago, about government officials being public servants, right? Unlike pagan systems of government, civil authorities can't dominate the people. They serve the common good of every individual, and they punish evil and they reward righteousness. And Jesus, when he's quoting the Torah, he reinforces that man is made in the image of God in the Gospel of Matthew. And that is the basis for the foundational concept of equality under the law and the principle of justice that we value to this day and apply to all people. And then he also acknowledges that there is a difference between the role of the state and the church, that they have different functions, but God rules over both. The church has the keys while the state bears the sword. So the ability to enforce public justice doesn't belong to the church. Right. The church can't execute criminals, and neither does the worship of God belong to the state. The state can't come into your church and tell you how to do worship.

[Zach]

Right.

[Bradley]

And lastly, I love it in the Sermon on the Mount. People will look at you know what Jesus said about turning the other cheek. But they don't understand that what he is affirming there is to the judicial, civil, magistrate and the principle of what's called lex talionis, the eye for eye. Right. He affirms that in the case of this interpersonal dispute right here, like, if it's a backhanded insult, like, let it be water off your back, but he's pointing to the Old Testament law, saying, you have heard it was said. And then, like, this is the standard of God from the Older Testament, eye for eye. He affirms that that falls under the purview of government rather than individuals. So what is he saying? He's saying. He's saying. He's affirming that the state is still subject to the standards of divine revelation because what does Matthew chapter five said say? He didn't come to abolish the law, he came to fulfill it. So, again, that's all I'll say. But to this idea that politics is irrelevant, Jesus wouldn't want us concerned with it. There's a couple things to consider.

[Zach]

That was excellent, dude. Thank you. Yeah. And the last part of the Great Commission that is seemingly always missed, always forgotten, is teach them all that I have commanded.

[Bradley]

Right.

[Zach]

So what is encompassed then in all that he has commanded? You know, we would argue that that means the law. We're talking about the civil law there, moral law. So, like, yeah, you can't separate the two. We can't. We can't think like that. We can't act like that, because when we do, we end up with what we're dealing with right now. So now's the time again to bring us full circle here. Now's the time be bolder than ever with the gospel, calling our legislators to repentance. And this is what's been crazy cool this legislative session is. You see that? We've seen that in a number of politicians, a number of legislators, that. I've never seen this before. And it's at least not en masse. Maybe en masse isn't the right description, but so many. Yeah, there's. There's definitely. We're seeing a boldness from a lot of faithful Christian legislators in the states across the nation that are putting their equal protection bills. Because last year wasn't there. You and I know that last year it was. We had so many legislators across the nation that said they were going to put in equal protection bills, and then when it came to it, they folded because they were more worried about losing the election. But to see the boldness that they have now where we're, you know, North Dakota and Georgia and some of these other places where there's these faithful Christian legislators. Guess what? They're Christians. They believe in the gospel, and they're on the floor of the house in North Dakota, you know, proclaiming the law of God and talking about Christian principles, you know, talking about the gospel. Like, that's incredible to see. And if you're going to sit there as a Christian and say, ah, shouldn't be doing that. Yeah, we shouldn't do that.

[Bradley]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Then I say, you're a coward.

[Bradley]

And it's not loving to your neighbor.

[Zach]

No, it's not.

[Bradley]

Which is, you know, what the law hangs on. We do this out of love for God, because we want to honor him, but we also do it for the good of his image bearers and love for neighbor. So much of politics comes down to that. Is love your neighbor as yourself. Like, what laws would you want enacted in your nation? Yeah, right. How do you want your life to be governed? Well, that will be guided by certain principles, certain convictions, a moral vision. And which one do you want? Do you not want the Christian vision? Do you want the Christian social norms that have produced such a fruitful society in the past? Or do you want some other worldview and its tenants enacted into law to govern you? We take so much for granted. We just. We don't even think about the fact that we are the recipients of so many blessings that were secured by people before we were even around. But they were thinking of us. They were thinking of us. That's why they put it in writing that we are securing the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity. So they actually had a view of history that said, we're not acting simply on our own behalf right now for the betterment of our current situation. We're looking forward in time to our children and their children and their children to come after them like they were thinking about us before we were here. And therefore, that's a very strong motivation for anything that we do now in the present to think about and to fight for the blessings of liberty that we want secured for our grandchildren and our great grandchildren. And obviously, we want that to be first and foremost an eternal inheritance. Like, we want to teach them about Christ. We want them to know Him. We want them to serve Him. We want them to know the superior hope of what it means to have a heavenly inheritance and that that can never be taken away from them in Christ. Right. We want that deposit guarded and built up and grounded and built upon for Their whole lives, who they are in Christ. But, man, it would be great if we also had the opportunity to leave behind a more prosperous nation for them as well, for their earthly good. Right. Because those two things are related.

[Zach]

Yeah. And we'll just, we'll end on this point here. And I mean, I was just sitting here thinking as we're talking through this, you know, like, so say, you know, when Trump, before he was. Before he. After he's elected, but before he. I mean, this was literally like the day after he got elected. I know because I was in Germany. He wasn't even, you know, hadn't done his inauguration yet. And he was saying, we're, we're getting rid of all the genders except male. Like, awesome. Praise God. I'm sure, you know, every Christian is like, yes, amen. That's amazing. But like, by what standard? Right? So if we're saying yes and amen, but yeah, we shouldn't get Christians. We shouldn't be involved politically. It's like, where do you think he's getting that from? It's, that's. He's getting it from an objective source, the word of God that we as Christians stand on.

[Bradley]

Not just because it's unpopular. It's a very unpopular position to hold to believe that gender is on a spectrum or that men should be able to compete in women's sports. Like, that's, that has a root in something.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Bradley]

Like male and female. What we're talking about is in the beginning, he created them this way.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Bradley]

That's what it's tied to.

[Zach]

Yeah. And so I'll, I'll end here. So a few years ago, myself and Pastor Jeff and Pastor Zach, we were in Scotland. This was actually as Covid was hitting. And so it was March 2020, we were at Edinburgh, Scotland. I mean, to the point where we were like, I don't know if we're gonna make it back. Like, it was like, we got back in a week later, everything shut down. We got, went to Edinburgh, we saw the, we did the Covenanter tour there in Edinburgh, Scotland. Incredible. Life changing, you know, stood over the grave of John Knox, saw his house, got a picture in front of his church, like all this stuff. But what, what I learned from that trip, I mean, we literally stood in front of Knox's church. We're like, what is God preparing us for? That's literally the conversation we had. And then Covid it, answer, yes, here you go. Yeah. And so, I mean, that was such a life changing experience because to see what the Covenanters did And not realizing that they are the ones that planted our nation. Okay. It's the Covenanters that came through UK and the pilgrims and all that came from the Covenanters to see what they were willing to do, literally sign a national covenant in their own blood. Like you can see it on the wall in a glass frame, still signed in their blood. And what were they fighting? Next level. What were they fighting? Sacralism. Right, I got to touch Knox's pulpit. There's a guillotine there where they were, where they're executing the Christians. You can touch it's blood stain, you can still touch it. Incredible. In the Muse, in the National Museum there in Edinburgh. But they were fighting sacralism. It was because the, the leaders in Scotland were Roman Catholic and they were trying to enforce a Roman Catholic view of scriptures on the people. And if you didn't obey, you were put to death. So the Covenanters were having to meet in secret and they were being executed for that.

[Bradley]

That's crazy to think about.

[Zach]

That's what I'm talking about. That's what we want to avoid, is the gospel through coercion. And it scares me a little bit. I'm not worried, but it scares me when I see other Christians kind of praising and wanting that view of a nation. Right. And so thankful for the Covenanters. They're the ones, they're the faithful Christians who left Scotland, left the uk, came here, planted our nation. That's what our nation's built upon, those principles, those biblical foundations, and that's what we want to uphold. So don't tell me as Christians we shouldn't be involved politically. On that note, we're going to end and we will be. We'll stick around for a quick after show for all you all accessors out there. So thank you everyone for participating in the show today. I want to give a shout out, of course, to our sponsors. You can go over to shop apologiesstudios.com check out our tracks, we got a bunch of those. We got these amazing coffee beans, we got shirts, we got hats, we got all the stuff. And if you're coming to Reform Con, I'll have some stuff there as well, so you can get some swag if you're coming. And then I always want to be mentioning Bill Rapier, amtech Blades. Love that brother so much, so grateful for him. He's been such a blessing, encouragement to me in my life. Oh, sorry, that was not what I meant to do. And you can go to amtech blades.com, put apology in the coupon code get 5% off an amazing battle axe or everyday carry blade or you can get a larger blade if you want. You don't want to carry every day amazing products. Put apology in the Coupon code get 5% off and he will match 5% to help us save babies and abortion now. And of course Bradley Pierce talking about faithful Christians and heritagedefense.org if you're homeschooling. See don't tell me as Christians we shouldn't be involved politically when you have three letter agencies coming to your door telling you that you can or cannot homeschool your children. So you know that's, that's where we end up if we don't get involved politically. But if you homeschool your children, please sign up@Heritage Fence.org Again apology in the coupon code and get your first month free. And then lastly, I want to mention page 50. We're one week away from Reform con as I mentioned And Stuart from page 50 is going to be there. Come say hi to him. Thank him for his partnership with us. But for the last read we'll do here before Formcon. Page 50 is a full service marketing and media production company that wants to help Christians recapture the economic and civil spheres. Operating for the last 10 years, page 50 has helped numerous businesses build their books and brands and they want to help you build yours. Websites, SEO, video production, brand building and a lot more. Page 50 that's P A G E450.com does it all non non woke marketing services. Who would have thought? So go check them out. Support them. I'm excited. I actually haven't met Stuart in person so I'm excited to spend some time with him. So Zach, any last thoughts?

[Bradley]

I think that's it. It's a good show.

[Zach]

Yeah, it was a good, good conversation that we literally put together at the last minute. So it's a fun conversation.

[Bradley]

All right. Sometimes that's the best way.

[Zach]

Sometimes it is. Yeah. Thank you again everyone for your support all you act all accessors and of course we're in abortion now. We're grateful and this legislative season seizion season is about to under wraps here but that doesn't mean we stop because that we just keep going throughout the year and trying to keep the ball moving in all these different states. So thank you everyone for your support of an abortion now as well. You can go to endabortionnow.com donate if you want to help us save babies and pass some equal protective legislation. So all that to say we will not. Oh we will be live next week at Reform Con. We're going to have a live show mashup with Cross Politic.

[Bradley]

How cool is that?

[Zach]

Did you know that?

[Bradley]

I had no idea. So you didn't tell me.

[Zach]

I forgot. I've been busy. So, yes, next week, Cool. We'll have a live mashup show with Cross Politic at Reform Con on the main stage, one of the breakout sessions, so be looking for that. It's going to be blasty blast. All right, that's it. We'll see you guys on the after show here in a few minutes. Peace out. Everybody.

[Joe Boot]

Know that.