540. The Gospel We're Afraid to Proclaim

Summary

Apologia Radio Episode 540: "The Gospel We're Afraid to Proclaim"

Date: September 4, 2025
Hosts: Luke “the Bear” Pierson & Zach Conover

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EPISODE OVERVIEW

Main Theme:
The hosts challenge the modern, shallow understanding of the Gospel—namely, that Jesus came solely to forgive individual sins. With robust biblical support and pastoral experience, Luke and Zach advocate for a "full-orbed," cosmic view of redemption: Jesus’ work is not just for individual salvation but for the comprehensive renewal of all creation. They touch on eschatology, the ongoing reign of Christ, the Gospel's offensive mission in the world, and the practical implications for Christians engaging culture.

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KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS

1. Personal Backgrounds & the Narrow "Sins-Only" Gospel

• [04:42] Both hosts share their diverse church backgrounds—Luke's Baptist, Zach's Charismatic—to illustrate how the North American church often shortens the Gospel to "Jesus came to save me from my sins, period."
• MEMORABLE MOMENT [05:18]
  • Luke: “Legalism light.”
  • Zach: “I had the privilege of being exposed to a lot of different denominational settings... I’d probably say Assembly of God was the atmosphere where I cut my baby Christian teeth.”

2. Rediscovering the Gospel’s Cosmic Scope

• [06:33 – 09:54]
  • Luke introduces the influence of theologian Joe Boot, who reframed his view: the Gospel is bigger than salvation from personal sin alone.
  • Zach: “Your gospel is too small... the purchasing of individuals with Christ’s blood? We’d go so far as to say, when Christ died on the cross, he was purchasing everything.”
  • They discuss the biblical story—God’s mission to restore and reconcile all things, not just souls (Ephesians 1, Colossians 1).

3. Under-Realized Soteriology vs. Over-Realized Eschatology

• [11:47]
  • Luke recounts Joe Boot’s phrase:
    • “People accuse me of an ‘over-realized eschatology.’ My reply is: ‘You have an under-realized soteriology.’”
  • The hosts unpack this: Boot, and by extension their own view, sees salvation as cosmic in scope, not just the saving of souls but the reclamation of all creation.

4. The Gospel as a Victory Parade; The Church’s Offensive Role

• [13:17 – 19:44]
  • Zach: “Paul says in 2 Corinthians, ‘Praise be to God, who in Christ always leads us in triumphal procession...’”
  • Emphasis on the present reign of Christ—He is victorious and the church is on the march, not on the defensive:
    • “The gates of hell will not prevail against it” (Matthew 16) means the church attacks the gates of hell, not vice versa.
  • Luke: “We should be the church militant, not the church in hiding... We are to kick down the gates of hell.”

5. The "Imperial Gospel" & Cultural Engagement

• [19:46 – 25:07]
  • The imperial scope: “No king but Christ.”
  • Luke (drawing on Andrew Sandlin): “Christ is the true Caesar. It’s not just that Christians were persecuted for being Christians—they refused to say, ‘Caesar is Lord.’ Instead, they said, ‘Christ is Lord’—a direct affront to the imperial kingdom.”
  • Zach: “Our citizenship is in heaven, but the goal is to have that dual citizenship inform and apply our beliefs to the world.”

6. Destroying the Works of the Devil: 1 John 3

• [26:51 – 34:04]
  • Luke reads 1 John 3, highlighting:
    • “The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.” ([29:43])
  • Application: Christians are “the weapons that [Christ] uses in order to destroy those works.”
  • Zach: The nature of this battle is spiritual, not merely political. Visible evidence of Satan’s work: attack on family, culture, gender, and life itself.

7. The Centrality of the Household & Strategies of the Enemy

• [34:04 – 36:09]
  • Luke: “The way that we’re going to overcome the works of Satan is through proper households, proper governmental jurisdictions and structures, one being the family.”
  • Zach: “Satan knows that we need strong husbands and strong dads... If he’s going to defeat the church, it has to start with weak fathers and broken households.”

8. The Present Reign of Christ: Biblical Foundation

• [36:23 – 46:19]
  • Zach rapid-fires NT texts (Ephesians 1, Acts 2 & 13, Psalm 110, Psalm 2, Hebrews 1 & 10, 1 Peter 3, 1 Corinthians 15):
    • Christ is NOW reigning at the right hand of the Father.
    • His reign began at His ascension, not sometime only in the future.
    • Notable Quote [38:03]
      • “Where are we seated? In the heavenly places with Him. That’s present tense.” (Zach)
    • Christians are evidence of Christ’s victory: “You were an enemy, and Christ turned you into not only a friend, but a son.”

9. Colossians 1: Cosmic Reconciliation

• [47:45 – 59:08]
  • Luke’s “go-to” text for the cosmic reach of the Gospel; also an apologetics point with Mormons:
    • “For by Him all things were created... whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities... all things were created through Him and for Him.” ([49:37])
  • Zach: “Nothing whatsoever is left outside of the redemptive work of Christ in all of creation. God made it all for Himself and He is redeeming it. Has it been touched by sin? God’s redeeming it.”
  • The Kingdom of God is everywhere the Lordship of Christ is carried by Christians—not just in the institutional church (“cubicle, kitchen, public square...”).

10. Joy to the World: Singing the Cosmic Gospel at Christmas

• [59:08 – 64:17]
  • Hosts reflect on “Joy to the World” lyrics:
    • “No more let sins and sorrows grow, nor thorns infest the ground. He comes to make his blessings flow, far as the curse is found.” ([60:04])
  • Christ’s atoning work deals not just with personal guilt but universally with the curse—even creation.
  • Zach: “The sign of the curse on the ground is placed... on top of his head [the crown of thorns].”
  • Key takeaway: The Gospel is the announcement of the King’s rule, His victory, and the church participates in the advance of His kingdom—as far as the curse is found.

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NOTABLE QUOTES & MEMORABLE MOMENTS

• [07:10] Zach: “The narrow focus of individual salvation... hasn’t been the full story... The death, burial, resurrection of Jesus. But, even more, the enthronement... the reign of Christ.”
• [13:17] Zach: “When Christ died on the cross He was purchasing... a fallen creation that is in the process of being restored to Him.”
• [19:44] Luke: “We should be the church militant... out of its four walls of safety and trying to kick down the gates of hell.”
• [29:43] Luke: “Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil... The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.”
• [34:52] Zach: “The nature of the conflict [with evil] is not inherently political. It’s spiritual... fighting for the glory of God and the crown rights of Christ over all things.”
• [38:03] Zach: “Where are we [believers] seated? In the heavenly places with Him... That’s present tense.”
• [51:36] Zach: “Nothing... is left outside of the redemptive work of Christ in all of creation.”
• [59:50] Luke: “He comes to make his blessings flow far as the curse is found... that means the Gospel should go forth everywhere.”
• [62:21] Zach: “Adam would and his work would yield thorns... When Christ comes and goes to the cross, the sign of the curse on the ground is placed... on top of his head.”

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TIMESTAMPED STRUCTURE OF CONTENT

• [01:13 – 03:58] Cold open, banter, gratitude for supporters
• [04:42 – 09:54] Personal backgrounds, introduction to a bigger gospel
• [11:47 – 13:17] Joe Boot: under-realized soteriology vs. over-realized eschatology
• [13:17 – 19:44] Biblical vision: cosmic salvation, Christ’s victory, church’s offensive role
• [19:46 – 25:07] Imperial gospel, cultural implications, “Christ is Caesar”
• [26:51 – 34:04] Exegesis of 1 John 3, confronting the works of Satan
• [34:04 – 36:09] The strategic centrality of the household/family
• [36:23 – 46:19] Christ's present reign: Ephesians, Acts, Psalms, Hebrews, 1 Peter, 1 Corinthians
• [47:45 – 59:08] Colossians 1, kingdom vs. church, reconciliation of all things
• [59:08 – 64:17] “Joy to the World,” conquering the curse, everyday Christmas theology

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FINAL TAKEAWAYS

• The Gospel is not just personal but cosmic; Christ’s reign is active, present, and advancing through His Church over everything, everywhere.
• Christians are not called to retreat but to advance—proclaiming Christ’s kingship in every sphere, seeing themselves as agents of reconciliation.
• The ultimate victory and restoration of all created things is assured—Christ’s blood secures the renewal ‘as far as the curse is found.’
• In practice: Stand boldly in public faith, strengthen households, engage culture with a “Church militant” mindset, and remember: “No king but Christ!”

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This episode is a rich, scripturally-driven rallying call for believers to see, preach, and embody the Gospel in all its fullness.

Transcript

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[Zach]

Non Rockabotus Must stop.

[Luke the Bear]

I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it. Are you gonna bark all day, little doggy?

[Zach]

Or are you gonna bite Brett?

[Luke the Bear]

Delusional.

[Zach]

Delusional?

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Delusional is okay. In your worldview, I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you calling me delusional? Your worldview is perfectly okay. It doesn't really hurt.

[Luke the Bear]

She hung up on me.

[Zach]

What?

[Luke the Bear]

What? Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men. The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage. Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make rosas. Right. Don't go into the world and make ponies disciples.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

I got a bit of a jiggle neck. That's a joke.

[Luke the Bear]

Pastor.

[Zach]

When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

[Luke the Bear]

Take an amazing journey to a place that will blow your mind and move your heart so you will never be the same again. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil. For the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the son of God appeared was to destroy the works of Satan. What's up, y'? All? That's 1 John 3, verse 8.

[Zach]

Love that verse.

[Luke the Bear]

I also love that verse. We will be discussing here shortly.

[Zach]

Can't wait.

[Luke the Bear]

Thank you everyone once again for tuning in today. Apolog Radio Luke the Bear hosting Little Caesars to my left.

[Zach]

What's up everyone? You know that music right now that you're jamming? It reminds me of Ivan Drago when he gets introduced in Rocky 4 and he's coming up under the ground and it's like dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun dun dun dun dun dun. It's got that just 80s vibe.

[Luke the Bear]

It works well with that verse.

[Zach]

What a vibe.

[Luke the Bear]

Oh, like what?

[Zach]

Kick a hole in Satan's face. What to like.

[Luke the Bear]

That's Drago. Yeah, I mean it's one of the same. If it works, I like it. I thought you were gonna say like Stranger Things, but yours is better. Your. Your comparisons better.

[Zach]

Prefer the genuine movies from the 80s, dude.

[Luke the Bear]

I can't wait for the next season of Stranger Things. But I'm not gonna distract from the conversation. We're grateful for Everyone. We're grateful for. We're grateful for.

[Zach]

It's true.

[Luke the Bear]

For. Sorry.

[Zach]

We are grateful. Thank you for joining us.

[Luke the Bear]

Thank you for your. I got a lot going on right now. I'm trying to stay focused. I am grateful for Dominion wealth is what I was trying to say. And Josiah Stowe is a good, good dude. And like I've been mentioning, we're going to have him on at some point to talk about some more things and money related. But super, super thankful for their partnership. And of course you can go to reform that money, which is such an amazing website.

[Zach]

That's just a cool name too, Josiah.

[Luke the Bear]

And. And just check them out. And like I said, I know they've helped some people out at our church. They got some free consultations. They just want. They just want people to do a better job handling their money for the kingdom. That's the goal.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

But anyways, today Zach and I were talking like, what should we talk about this week? And I think, I mean, we both grew up in the church. Different flavors. I grew up very Northern Baptist garb churches, which was, I always say Southern Baptist with a bunch more legalism on top. Not like fundamentalist Stephen Anderson type legalism, but, you know, a little bit. A little bit like legalism.

[Zach]

Legalism. Light.

[Luke the Bear]

Legalism Light. Yeah. And you grew up with kind of charismatic, right? Are very charismatic.

[Zach]

I had the privilege of being exposed to a lot of different denominational settings. There wasn't a strong theology of church membership in my home growing up. It was. And I think that's an owing to a Lot of the charismatic Pentecostal influence. But I would probably say assembly of God was the atmosphere that I cut my baby Christian teeth. And at least having an exposure to the gospel for the first time, even if it came with a lot of the extracurriculars, shall we say, you know, the, you know, the hooping and hollering. Yeah, yeah. Jumping and gyrating, the noise. But I love it. I love that those are my roots.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah. No, it's cool, man. It's like we have like very. We have like the opposite.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

Of experiences. Yeah. But all that to say I think we both kind of grew up with this understanding that Christ came to save us from our sins, period. Yeah, that's it. No other reason.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

And I fully believe that and that's part of why he came. But I fully believe, and I think a lot of the church and our culture kind of holds to that perspective until not too long ago, not that many years ago, when I kind of was introduced to Joe Boud. And we can talk more about that and we'll get into some verses. But yeah, I think the gospel is more full orbed than just Christ coming to save us from our sins.

[Zach]

Comprehensive in its scope.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah. Holistic in its.

[Zach]

Well put. I think that the narrow focus of individual salvation, while absolutely necessary, hasn't been the full story really that's been preached. And I believe what all of scripture has to say about what I would just boil down to the reign of Christ. So the death, burial, resurrection of Jesus. But even more so what probably hasn't been emphasized due to just a lack of proportion, bad views of the future and so on. A enthronement of the Lord Jesus and a session. So the current ongoing continuous reign of the Lord Jesus until the subjection of all things. And really that kind of preaching, proclamation, theology, understanding of Christ's mission when he was on earth, why was he doing the miracles? Why was he healing people? What was the point of him saying this when you're just seeing it through the lens of he's come to forgive us of our personal offenses to God, which the gospel is certainly not less than that, but it is indeed far more than just that. It's far more than just the purchasing of individuals with Christ's blood. We would go so far as to say when Christ died on the cross he was purchasing everything.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Zach]

A fallen creation that is in the process of being restored to him. And we have the divine privilege as his co heirs, as his co inheritors of all things being in him to be partakers of that mission, to be co partners with him in the reconciliation, redemption, restoration and renewal of the entire cosmos.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, that's it. That's the show right there.

[Zach]

So just think of all the words, you know, renewal, restoration, reconciliation. If you look at scripture, the categories, there are not just reconciliation between us and God, and us and one another, but a reconciliation of God's world which has been corrupted, tainted, plunged into darkness by sin back to him through the work of Christ. And we have the joy and privilege of participating in that great cosmic work, being that we have been restored back to God ourselves.

[Luke the Bear]

Right.

[Zach]

We are the agents of this renewal. We are the agents of this recreation of all things.

[Luke the Bear]

I'm really starting to sweat here. Yeah, I. It's. It's cooled off about 10 degrees with the rain we got and which it's.

[Zach]

Still might not seem like much, but when you're coming off of consecutive 110s, yeah, you will take 100 minus 10 of that.

[Luke the Bear]

So it was feeling good earlier, but we shut the air off and now I'm starting to feel it. So apologize if I'm glistening.

[Zach]

All the skinny guys in the room are like, yeah, no problem.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, yeah, not me. I was told by my chiropractor that my ability to sweat is actually a gift from God because it means I'm constantly detoxing.

[Zach]

Yeah, right.

[Luke the Bear]

And I was like, that's one way to look at it.

[Zach]

Yeah, right.

[Luke the Bear]

That's a positive story.

[Zach]

Yeah, It's a talent that maybe not everybody shares.

[Luke the Bear]

The first time we met Joe Boot was in Canada, Calgary area, for a conference Jeff and I did up there. And we were at Banff, went to Banff national park up there. It's beautiful. I was drinking glacier water right out of the river. Ice cold. Jeff thought for sure I was gonna die, but I didn't. But he said something, an interview we did with him inside broken cape. And that's when we had first met Joe and I had no idea who he was. And I don't think anybody else really did either outside of Canada, like the Toronto area. But he said something that's always stuck with me. And you know, he said, people accuse me of having an over realized eschatology. And he said my, my reply is always that you have an under realized soteriology. And that's always stuck with me, what that means, right? Eschatology being the study of last things, soteriology being the study of salvation. And so basically people are accusing him and we would have the same position. Credit a lot to him for helping to Shape our thinking. But you know, people would say, well you're, you're too optimistic. Being post millennial, you're, you know, it's, that's the kind of the over realized eschatology. And we're saying no, no, actually you just have an underrealized. Sociology is again the study of salvation. We think it's much larger than what we've come to believe in the church in our culture. And I, and I don't just mean there's a kind of a twofold to that one, just souls. We would say, I think God's going to save far more souls than what people think.

[Zach]

That the number of the saved when all is said and done will far exceed the number of those lost.

[Luke the Bear]

Correct, Correct. Would you have to have a long term view of history for that? And secondly, you know, we, which we'll get into here. There's two passages I want to focus on in the last two segments. But you know, we would say he came to, to save more than just souls. Right, like you were saying, the recreation, reconciliation, all those things. You know, we would say that his. You mentioned, we were talking about this. You mentioned Toby's book Blood bought world. That.

[Zach]

Yeah, good.

[Luke the Bear]

But his, his blood on the cross bought more than just souls. Right. It bought the world. And you mentioned that. But what do you think about that?

[Zach]

Well, I think it speaks to what we're trying to get at here. I think another way to say it, you have an under realized soteriology, which is your understanding or doctrine of salvation. It just might be another way of saying your gospel is too small. Your perhaps understanding an implication of the power of Christ's salvation is not nearly as far reaching as the Scriptures present to us. Is another way to say it. I think that it's the power of God in regeneration that opens the eyes of dead sinners, brings us from spiritual death to spiritual life. Anybody who's truly regenerate understands that power. We understand what it means to be born again, born from above. But now also take that and understand that the work of regeneration of new Genesis, right. That's essentially what that word means. It's a new genesis that is something that Christ desires and is bringing to the entire world as he subjects all things to himself through the gospel work of his chosen people on earth. And so obviously we don't believe that it in any way is consummated yet. There will be a consummation of this work, a capstone, if you will. But that work is in process and is being undertaken by the Church of Jesus Christ and God's Spirit is with us, and he is equal to accomplishing the task for which we were saved. And we were saved to bring about these things by the power of the Holy Spirit and by the proclamation of the word of God and God's Gospel. And that's the key, is this is certainly nothing that we would be bringing about under our own efforts. It's the power of God in us. And I love one place to aim at. Paul says in 2 Corinthians, Praise be to God, who in Christ always leads us in triumphal procession that we may spread the aroma of Christ, the fragrance of him everywhere. And Paul says to the lost, that aroma stinks, but to the saved, it is sweet smelling unto life. And that portrait there, I think, is the scriptural one. We are being led in triumphal procession, being saved, being brought into fellowship with God and with his people. It's a victory parade. It's a victory march. So Paul says about the church in Ephesians, chapter four, when he ascended on high, he led a host of captives. And he's quoting from the Old Testament a passage there from the Psalms and applying it to the ascension of the Lord Jesus. Right. When the king ascended, when he went up, when Jesus was raised, and when he was enthroned, he led a host of captives. And that's true in the sense of the enemy has been spoiled. Right. That's how Jesus interpreted his ministry. He says, if the strong man be bound, all of his goods will be plundered.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And so Jesus has conducted in the salvation of his people, a redemption from the bondage of their sin and a new exodus from the slavery of sin to the promised land of a relationship with God. And just as Israel plundered the Egyptians, the Son of God has plundered the spoils of Satan, and he has given us the treasures of the kingdom and the gifts of the Holy Spirit. And then in that passage in Ephesians, Paul goes on to talk about the organization of the church built on the foundation of the apostles and the prophets and the teachers and the elders, and who equipped the saints for the work of ministry. And so this picture that we get that emerges from Scripture is a resurrected, victorious, ascended king who has ascended on high. He's led a host of captives in his train. And we follow in this victory parade, plundering Satan, plundering the works of darkness. Right. The verse that you read at the beginning, why did Christ come? Well, one of the central reasons, according to his own words, the description of his own ministry is he came to destroy the works of Satan. He came to destroy the works of the devil so that the ruler of this world would be cast out and so that Christ would have all authority in heaven and on earth. Matthew 28, 18, 20. Therefore go, because he has the authority. Because the Spirit has been poured out on the church, the gates of hell will not prevail against it. Matthew chapter 16. And the gates are defensive in posture. And so you have the portrait of the church advancing against the kingdom of darkness and the gates of hell not being able to withstand that offensive onslaught. So that's just a portrait of what we have there. But I think it's wholly biblical to expect that type of offensive mindset.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Zach]

In terms of the church's mission in the world and then the expectation of victory because it's God himself that remains with us to accomplish the task.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, dude, there's so much there I'm trying to save. First John to the. For the next segment. But that was great. That was fantastic. And that actually brought up a couple of thoughts in my mind. I wasn't even thinking. But you're right, I love the conversation of the gospel being offensive. You know, and I've said this a lot. I think even growing up the church, you hear the verse, the, you know, Christ's words of the, the, the Satan, or that the gates of hell will not prevail against the church. Right. And I'm always the first question asked, what do gates do gates protect? They're like you said, they're not offensive, they're defensive. And I think we've. We've kind of in our minds thought we like, it's like reverse what it should be. Right. We picture the gates of hell coming into the church and trying to like knock the church down. But that's not what Christ is saying. It should be the reverse. It should be the church going out of its four walls of safety and trying to kick down the gates of hell. The gates of hell.

[Zach]

Yeah, gates are stationary.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, exactly.

[Zach]

They don't move.

[Luke the Bear]

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So the gospel is offensive. It shouldn't be defensive. And one thing too, you made me think of was I got this from Andrew Sandlin. This is actually when I first came to know Andrew and it's something that transformed my thinking. And just the imperial Gospel. I know you talk about this and ye, when I first heard. Yeah, when I first heard like, you know, the term Imperial Gospels, like, oh, that's weird. You know, like you start thinking like Star wars or something.

[Zach]

I think stormtroopers merging that's what I think.

[Luke the Bear]

Exactly. Which in a way is that. Except you just got to reverse the light and dark. Right.

[Zach]

Only. Only the empire. Yeah, The. The imperial marchers are the good guys in God's story.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Whereas the rebellion is those who are under Satan's dominion.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Zach]

So switch the roles. Yeah, got it.

[Luke the Bear]

And the whole thought behind that was in Andrew's thinking. And I love the ideas. You know, like he says, Christ is the true Caesar. Right. And. And, yes. Yeah. And like, you go back to the new. The New Testament, the Book of Acts, why were the Christians persecuted? It wasn't just because they were Christians. It's because they refused to say that Caesar is Lord. Kaiser curiosity. They refused to say that and instead they said, no, Christ is Lord, Christ is king. And. And that was a direct affront to Caesar, to that imperial kingdom.

[Zach]

Correct.

[Luke the Bear]

And, you know, so the whole idea is just that Christ's kingdom is all encompassing of all of the cosmos, all of creation. And, you know, as Christians, we should be saying, no king, but Christ. And Christ is our emperor, if you will, if you wanted to follow that line of thinking, but he is the true ruler of the world. And one. One thing, just historically speaking, that I thought was fascinating was just, we're you, Angelium. The gospel derived from the Good News. Right. So in those times, like in the Roman Empire, when the. The Caesar who. Or the. The army would go out for battle, they would come back, right. When they would win, and you'd have the Good News bearer come before the king bearing the good news, saying, the king is one. He's returning in victory. And that's where the gospel. That's where gospel came from. You on galleon. And like, when I heard that and I read that, I was like, oh, my goodness. Like, that's what we should be doing as Christians. We sh. We are the Good News bears. If you think about it in. In those terms, like, Christ is victorious. He is ruling and reigning. He will return. And our job is to go before him and declare that to the world.

[Zach]

And to extend the portrait that you're painting here a little bit further. Even when Caesar did return in triumphant victory and he reigned, what happened to the surrounding culture of the places that were conquered?

[Luke the Bear]

Right.

[Zach]

Well, they adopted Roman culture. And so part of the reason that Paul uses terms like our citizenship being in heaven, for example, is because when Rome conquered, the places that they did didn't just remain in their same cultural standpoint and viewpoint, they were affected. Right. It was Roman law that became adopted. It was Their ways, their culture, that I'll just use the word, colonized, the surrounding areas. And so part of what Paul is saying in places like Philippians 3, when our citizenship is in heaven, he's drawing on these illustrations to inform us that when Christians are saved and they announce the terms of surrender on behalf of their king who has triumphed, one of the roles of Christians is to proclaim the kingdom, but to advance a kingdom culture.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And that is the culture of the kingdom is part and parcel to the proclamation of the good news of the kingdom. Because if we believe in the king, if we live in terms of the king's law, and we believe and proclaim that his law should be the governing authority over all things that will produce a particular culture in the world. And that culture is the kingdom. It's kingdom culture. And so Christians who live in light of that know that, yes, our citizenship is in heaven, but the goal is to have that dual citizenship that we hold, inform and apply the beliefs that we profess in the world. By Paul says the same power, right, that raised Christ from the dead is the same power alive in us that enables Christ to subject all things to himself. So in Christ, God is subjecting all things in the world to his rule. And in partnership with us who have been also raised from the dead, who have tasted this power of the resurrection, we in Christ, by His gospel, are subjecting all things unto Him.

[Luke the Bear]

Yes, yes, and amen. That's a great place to stop here before we move on to the next segment. So first I want you to hear from our friends at Ion Layer, and then we'll be Back to cover. First John chapter three.

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[Luke the Bear]

Welcome back everybody. So as promised, I want to look at First John, Chapter three Again. This was something I got from Andrew Sandlin. I was preparing a message called Christ or Chaos once and really spent some time diving into this passage and was very eye opening to me, I would say, because again, this, I think this honestly, I think this is the point where I was like, oh wait, the Bible doesn't say that Christ came to save me from my sins, right? It says something else which again is part of that, part of that reconciliation, as you're saying. But anyways, first John, Chapter three. I'll start in verse four. Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness. Sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. The one who abides in him keeps on sinning. I'm sorry, no one who abides in him keeps on sinning. No one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. It's an important verse there. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous as he is righteous. Verse 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. And Andrew Sandlin says, Christ came to vanquish the works of Satan. That's how he would no one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning, because he is born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God and who are the children of the devil. Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother. Of course, that's smack dab in the passage on loving one another. But the key verse there is eight, Right. The reason the son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. That's powerful. Yeah. When I first read that, I was like, oh, my goodness, I've just not been thinking about this correctly for most of my life. And it reminds me, you know, we talk about the gates of hell will not prevail against the church. It reminds me of one of my favorite passages, Dave and Goliath. Right? And Goliath is like, who are you to come at me with your little sling and, you know, your stones and. And Dave, David looks up on Goliath and is like, who are you to come against the army of the living God? Right. And that. I love that. I love that so much. And that's been super impactful to me, you know, especially dealing with trying to end abortion. And literally, we would say literally, the abortion mill is the gates of hell. Like, there's literally satanic worship and sack and blood sacrifice happening at those places. And I think if Christians thought more like that. If we approached life, I forgot to start my time there. If we approached just life in general that way, like, who are you? Who are you, Satan, to come against the army of living God? Who are you, culture? Who are you, Planned Parenthood? Who are you, slanderer to come against the army of the living God? I know whose side I'm on. I know who's got my back, and I know whose kingdom I'm fighting for. And. And so I'm not. We shouldn't fear Satan. We shouldn't fear the works of Satan because Christ came to vanquish those works, to destroy those works. And we are the. We're the tool that he uses to do so. Yeah, it's not like the means. Yeah, it's not like we just live our lives and, you know, Christ has to use people somehow to do that. So as Christians, we are the means. We are the tools. We are the weapons that he uses in order to destroy those works.

[Zach]

Yes. And I think it forces us. Verses like that forces us to ask a couple questions. You know, if Christ came to destroy the works of the devil, first question would be, what? What are the works of the devil?

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Do we see those around us today? Are those visible to our eyes? Do we see the work of Satan in the public arena?

[Luke the Bear]

That's such a great point.

[Zach]

To cause chaos, disorder, corruption, destruction, destruction of life, destruction of marriage, destruction of family, destruction of everything that we hold dear as Christians that the Bible highly values. So do we See the works of the devil. Can we identify them today? Yes, I think we can. And so our focus, the scope of our effort begins to take us outside of the walls of the church. That's the point.

[Luke the Bear]

Yes.

[Zach]

And then two. The second question is, Christ came to destroy the works of the devil. What does that tell us about the nature of the conflict? It tells us that the nature of the conflict is not inherently political. It tells us that it's spiritual, that the warfare that we're engaging in is for not only lives and bodies, but eternal souls.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And therefore the nature of the conflict can be described as having eternal ramifications. That is what gives the work such a sense of significance and meaning and value and purpose is that we're not just fighting, again, for individuals. We're fighting for the glory of God and the crown rights of Christ over all things. So that's what verses like that force us. Those are the kinds of questions that it forces us to ask. And I see people, you know, I see Christians, even at an event last night, I told you, we went to that Turning Point event here in Phoenix, and the keynote speaker, total Pentecostal guy, you know, even affirmed, like, you know, women in teaching roles in the church as far as, like, eldership and all that stuff. Like, so, I mean, all that stuff. But a question came up and he was asked about, you know, the church's future. And he's like, listen, I'm going to tip my hand here and show my view of the end times here. But I don't believe Jesus returns to a defeated church.

[Luke the Bear]

Wow.

[Zach]

He said, I believe that Christ's bride, how do you put it, is on the treadmill doing keto right now. She's getting in shape. The Lord is disciplining her. And that's funny, but he's right about one thing, and that is that Christ's bride is being disciplined to maturity right now. And that process is ongoing. And one day she will reach maturity. One day she will reach maturity. And so again, we have to look at that and ask the question, is Christ's power sufficient to discipline his bride and bring her to sparkling, mature radiance in the sight of the world? And what does that look like in the world? What are the implications of that and what we can expect in terms of our victory over the forces of darkness? Again, those are the kinds of questions that we have to start asking.

[Luke the Bear]

Such good input there. You made me think of something, too. One thing that I've been big on the last couple years is I spent a lot of Time just ministering to our men and fathers and husbands and stuff I'm doing with yesterday, it was easy. Is CR Wiley's Household in the War for the Cosmos? Sorry, I just lost everything. Household in the War for the Cosmos. Excellent book. If you guys have read that, you need to read, especially if you're a dad and husband, please get that and read it. But the point is that the way that we're going to over overcome the works of Satan is through proper households, proper governmental jurisdictions and structures, one being the family. And that's why you mentioned. This is what I thought of you mentioned, you know, can we visibly see the works of Satan? What is the culture? What is every evil aspect of the culture trying to do destroy the family? Whether it be through, you know, the homosexual agenda, whether it be through, you know, the abortion agenda, you know, sowing.

[Zach]

Discord among the generations, you know, feminism, tempting children to dishonor their parents.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, exactly. Like Satan knows that we need strong husbands and strong dads to lead and to have good proper households. And if we don't, then there's no, there's no hope. You know, of course we would say there's hope. There's always hope in Christ. But from Satan's perspective, like if he's going to defeat the church, if he's going to defeat Christ and the gospel, it has to start with weak fathers and broken households and broken homes and divorced and fatherless children and go down the list. That's what the culture is trying to do. You want to look and see, where can I see the works of Satan? There's several examples and all is directed towards the family structure.

[Zach]

Right.

[Luke the Bear]

And so anyways, I didn't mean to get a tangent there, but I'm glad you brought that up. It reminded me of that.

[Zach]

It's a great example and it reminds me of the verse that Wiley uses a lot in the book. I think it's from Ephesians 1 when he talks about the reigning of Christ right now, which I want to get, I want to get into those verses. If you want to jump into it.

[Luke the Bear]

Do it right now.

[Zach]

I'm thinking like there's at least. Okay, I'll pull in a bracelet. There's at least 16 verses in the New Testament that describes the present reign of King Jesus at the right hand of the Father, or at least usages of that imagery to teach us what Christ is doing right now. Yes, interceding for his people, but reigning as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. And so I just wanted to look at a Couple of those. I mean, there's. There's so many that we could go through. I don't know if we'll get to all of them, but just listen to, for example, Ephesians, chapter one, and we'll start here at verse 18. Having the eyes of your hearts enlightened that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might, that he worked in Christ when He raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in the one to come. And then verse 22, and he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all. And I love this because in chapter two, what does it say about believers? Where are we seated? In the heavenly places with Him, Reigning with Him. That's. That's present tense.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Zach]

From a spiritual sense, of course, we're here on earth, but listen to the verbiage, because he already talks about it in the opening in that long section about God's election, His choosing of his people. Listen to what he says also in chapter one, verse eight, which he lavished upon us in all wisdom and insight, making known to us the mystery of his will according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. Okay, let's keep going. If you have questions to jump in.

[Luke the Bear]

I have one for the next segment, so go for it.

[Zach]

Is it the one I'm going to read next?

[Luke the Bear]

Is it Colossians?

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

Just save that then.

[Zach]

Okay. All right, let's see here. There's so many other places we can go to. Let's look at it. Colossians is a big one, right?

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Because again, it gets at this point now that Jesus is not just saving people for heaven one day.

[Luke the Bear]

Right?

[Zach]

Right. He's also doing something else. But let's see here. So we have.

[Luke the Bear]

Well, I just want to say is, while you're looking that up, like going back to Wiley's book, it's the war for the cosmos, right. It's not just the war for souls, it's not just the war for the United States. Of America. It's not even just the war for Earth.

[Zach]

Yeah. It's the war for creation.

[Luke the Bear]

It's the war for creation.

[Zach]

Right. The structure, fabric, a reality of all of life.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Everything that exists. Yeah, essentially.

[Luke the Bear]

And we'll get into that in collages. But I mean, just in verse 10 there in ephes, again, just to reiterate, it says, unite all things in Christ, things in heaven and things on earth.

[Zach]

Right.

[Luke the Bear]

You know, it's all things, it's all of creation. Go ahead.

[Zach]

We'll take a look here at Acts, chapter 2, verse 32. This Jesus God raised up, and of that we are all witnesses. Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says. And what we're about to get is the most often quoted verse from the Old Testament in the New Testament, Psalm 110:1, the Lord said to my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool. Talking about Jesus. And then later on, here, listen to what he says in Acts, chapter 13, verse 32. And we bring you the good news that what God promised to the fathers. Okay, what did God promise to the fathers? Well, we're about to see. He's been connecting the dots for us.

[Luke the Bear]

Fathers being of the Old Testament.

[Zach]

Correct. So all the promises made to Abraham. And what were the promises made to Abraham? That in his offspring all the nations would be blessed. That all the children of Abraham inherit the earth. That's our inheritance. We get it all. Why, this he has fulfilled to us, their children, by raising Jesus as also it is written in the second Psalm. So listen to Psalm 2. You are my my son. Today I have begotten you. And as for the fact that he raised him from the dead. Okay, so that's what we're talking about here. We're talking about Jesus being the first begotten from the dead. That's what's in view. No more. To return to corruption, he has spoken in this way. I will give you the holy and sure blessings of David. Therefore, he says also in another psalm, you will not let your Holy One see corruption. So you see the dots being connected here. Everyone who is a believer in Jesus is an inheritor of all the promises made to Abraham, David and the Old Testament saints. And what were the nature of those promises? That when Messiah comes and when Messiah is raised from the dead, as the firstborn from the dead. And we are united in Him. Through his redemptive work, we inherit all things. Because the plan that God is orchestrating in history is the plan of Ephesians 1, to unite all things in Christ, in heaven and on earth in him. Right. And where is Jesus right now? Well, he's seated far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named. That's where he is. So again, those quotations right there, Psalm 110:1, Psalm 2. Those are key. Let's see, where else can we go Here? So we have various quotations of Psalm 110. 1 In the New Testament, Matthew 22:44, the Lord said to my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make until I put your enemies under your feet. We have Mark 14:62, Jesus at his own trial. And Jesus said, I am. And you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of power and coming with the clouds of heaven. You will see the Son of Man and the Son of Man in view. Here is the Son of Man from Daniel, chapter seven, the one who is going to receive dominion, glory and a kingdom. So the nations essentially. Let's see, Luke 22:69. But from now on, the Son of Man shall be seated at the right hand of the power of God. Acts 5:31. God exalted him at his right hand as leader and savior to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

[Luke the Bear]

Hold on real quick. So going back to Luke, just for our listeners that maybe don't understand when it says from now on, what's that starting point? What's the reference there in that passage?

[Zach]

So being that it's in Luke 22, we're getting close again to the trial of the Lord Jesus. We're coming up on the end of Luke's Gospel. But what you're driving at here is when does this commence?

[Luke the Bear]

Right?

[Zach]

From whence does this commence? From whence when does the rule of Christ take effect? Well, when he is ascended, enthroned and seated. Yes, and according to the Scriptures, that's already taken place. Otherwise Paul would have no basis to say In Romans, chapter 8:34, who is to condemn Christ? Jesus is the one who died more than that, who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. And then Hebrews, same thing, Hebrews chapter one, verse three. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the majesty on High, verse 13. And to which of the angels has he ever set Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet. Hebrews 8:1. Now the point in what we are saying is this. We have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the majesty in heaven. Hebrews 10:12. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time. What time? From the time he was seated at the Father's right hand until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet.

[Luke the Bear]

The last being death.

[Zach]

1St Corinthians 15, 1st Peter 3, 22. Who has gone into heaven, That's Jesus. And is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities and powers having been subjected to him. That's past tense. So he's seated right now. And as I believe it's Hebrews tells us as well, even though we don't yet see all things in subjection to him. Right. We look around and there's an awful lot of enemies in the world right now, a lot of enemies to be subjected. Still we see him seated, who has been given dominion, honor, glory and a kingdom. So those are some foundational aspects and that's really the, the portrait that we get. Where is Jesus? He's seated right now. He's reigning. Why is that good news? Because he's in the process of subjecting all of his enemies under his feet. And if you're a Christian, then you're evidence of that. You were an enemy of God.

[Luke the Bear]

Exactly right.

[Zach]

You were far off from God. You didn't want God. You were a slave to your passions, a slave to sin. And what did God do? Well, he saved you. He reconciled you to himself through the death of his son, who's seated at the right hand of God, the right hand of the Father. And so you were an enemy and Christ turned you into not only a friend, but a son.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah. And the Coastlands wait.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

For your law. One of my favorite verses as well. Excellent. Dude, that was a good, like just rapid fire machine gun blast of excellent verses the back of what we're saying. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Well, let's just. That's a good place to stop because I know we're both dying to get the collagen to one. So let me. We'll just end this segment right here and let you guys hear from our good friends at Heritage Defense as well and Bradley Pierce. And then we'll pick up with Colossians one on the other side.

[Zach]

The sponsor for this week's episode is Heritage Defense. Heritage Defense is a non profit legal advocacy organization dedicated to advancing the Kingdom of Christ by protecting and empowering the biblical family. If any three letter agencies show up at your door, have peace of mind knowing that an attorney who shares your values is available round the clock to advise and advocate for your family. Protect your household today. Use the discount code Apologia and get your first month's membership free. Visit heritagedefense.org for more.

[Luke the Bear]

Welcome back guys. So we'll get into Colossians 1. Before, before I do that, I wanted to mention, I want to show you guys something cool. Gabe, if you want to pull this, pull this up here. I just wanted to talk about amtac Blades real quick. And I think I mentioned last week I was talking to Bill. Bill Rapey's such a good dude, but he started mentioning these drops they're having on Fridays. And I mean like they've been doing these custom blades and stuff you can do on Fridays. Got my blade here. Got our battle axes. Good stuff. Please support Bill. He's a good brother. He's an solid or he's elder at a solid reformed church up in the chimney of Idaho. So grateful for him and you can go to amtac blades.com, put apologia in the coupon code and get 5% off your order. And he one of the best things I love about Bill, he's like, I'm going to match that and I'm going to give 5% abortion now to help save babies. So we're grateful for Bill. Anyways, Back to Colossians 1. Pull this up here. This again. This is one of my, one of my go to verses. It's your life passages, I should say for a number of reasons. To be honest. The thing I use it the most for is probably talking to the lds.

[Zach]

Interesting.

[Luke the Bear]

Which we have plenty of here. This is like, this is the. Everyone's got their path, right? To go to talk to Mormons. Everyone's got the, you know, in mine is I'm always, I go right to like, was Jesus Satan's brother? Who's Jesus? You know, and they're like, well yeah, just he's Satan's brother. And so you create everything. They're like, you know, and then they have their explanation of everything on this earth. They add in some language here. But, but it also applies what we're talking about here. So I'll start in verse 15. Colossians 1:15. Let me make sure I did my timer. Did I do it? I did. Okay. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created. Not just on, not just on this earth. All things were created in heaven, which would include Satan. That's the realms Satan's in. And on earth, visible and invisible. Again, Satan, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities, Satan. All things were created through him and for him. So Christ created all things for himself and he is before all things. So that ruined. That rules out him being created and rules out the Heavenly Father. I mean, from a Mormon standpoint.

[Zach]

In a Mormon standpoint.

[Luke the Bear]

Make sure I clarify that. I lost my spot there.

[Zach]

Verse 17.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, there we go. So he's the. He's the head of the body, the church, he's the beginning, the firstborn from the dead. That in everything that means all things he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell. And through Him. Here's what we're getting at. To reconcile, reconcile, as Zach said earlier to himself, all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. So when we say he came to vanquish the works of Satan, that's part of this right, to reconcile all things himself, all the messes that Satan's created and all the destruction, all the chaos, Satan or Jesus came to vanquish all of that, to reconcile all of this to Himself in heaven and on earth, making peace by his blood on the cross.

[Zach]

Man so much there. The first question has to be what's.

[Luke the Bear]

Left outside of that Nothing, all things, no things.

[Zach]

And I think that's the point. That's why the exhaustion of words to get the point across is that nothing whatsoever is left outside of the redemptive work of Christ in all of creation. God made it all for Himself and He is redeeming it. Has it been touched by sin? God's redeeming it. Has it been corrupted? God is redeeming it and he's restoring it. And I think what might be helpful too is to jump back two verses.

[Luke the Bear]

Do it.

[Zach]

Verse 13. He has delivered us from the domain, dominion, kingdom of darkness, and transferred us into the kingdom of his beloved Son. There's only two kingdoms according to Scripture is the kingdom of light and the kingdom.

[Luke the Bear]

Not according to Westminster Escondido, neither here nor there.

[Zach]

But how does Scripture conceive of reality? You are either ENSNARED by the devil, subject to the kingdom of darkness, or you have been delivered into the kingdom of God's beloved Son. And for a Christian, that's our reality, is we've been transferred legally into this kingdom. And Jesus says in the Gospels, the kingdom of God is within you, in the midst of you. You carry around the reign of heaven within you. And so what does that mean for believers today? It means that anywhere the name, authority, and dominion of Jesus in us is carried, is taken there the kingdom is. That's not just in the church, right? That's in the cubicle, that's in the car, that's in the kitchen. Everywhere we go, if we are present there as believers, the kingdom is there. See, we tend to confuse the institutional church and the kingdom. They're not the same. There's overlap there. But what happens in the institutional church, right, you have the corporate gathering of believers, you have the government of the church, you have these things happening in there. But then you have the kingdom where Christians are sent out into the world, into the public setting, into the public square, not just in our homes, but in the streets, in the places of legislation and the places of arts and politics and education and all of these different areas, taking the kingdom with them. And they go about their daily lives advancing the kingdom in their respective spheres of influence and authority. So we can't get those two things confused. There's a distinction between the institutional church and the kingdom of God.

[Luke the Bear]

Just on that point, quickly, I don't want to distract your line of thought there. Another good book for that is 4 mission by Joe Buddha. So basically a chunk of the mission of God.

[Zach]

And read Ruler of Kings too, while you're at it.

[Luke the Bear]

4 Mission. That book really transformed a lot of my thinking. And it's exactly what you're saying. There's just this confusion of the church and the kingdom. And just to kind of go along with what we're saying here, we should be the church militant, right? Meaning we're actively going forth with the gospel, trying to conquer the cosmos with the gospel. Instead of acting like the church militant, we're acting like the church in hiding, you know, like we're the church in bunkers, you know? And so anyways, I just wanted to mention that excellent book. Definitely check it out.

[Zach]

Yeah, both of them. But that key right there, we have been transferred to the kingdom of God's beloved Son. And who is the beloved Son? He's the firstborn of all creation. Right? He has the supremacy. He has the preeminence, a Jewish term because he has created all things, whether visible and invisible. They all exist through him and for him. Right? Romans 11. For from him and through him, and to him are all things, and he is before all things, as you pointed out, he's prior to them. He is the arche of creation. He is the first. He is uncreated. And in him all things consist or find their integration point. What did we just talk about in Ephesians Chapter one? To unite all things in Christ, on heaven and earth. So Jesus stands at the center, and all things are being joined to Him. That would include, yes, Christians, the body of Christ. What does it mean to be in Christ? We are joined to his body. But where else does Scripture tell us goes in Christ? Everything, everything in need of reconciliation is being held together by Jesus, and it's all being united in Him. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead. Once again, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell. Colossians tells us the same thing in the very next chapter. All the fullness of Deity was pleased to dwell in him bodily. So this is God incarnate. This is God in the flesh. And through him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. So what did the blood on the cross purchase? Not just us, but everything in need of reconciliation, everything in need of redemption and restoration and renewal. God is restoring these things, and we, in partnership with him are restoring all things back to God, everything that's fallen. And as Romans 8 tells us, just to put a cap on this here, all of creation groans. It groans in eager expectation and longing for the revelation of the children of God. For though that creation was subjected to futility and frustration, it longs to be set free. It longs to be liberated. And who are the liberators? Who are the agents of recreation? Well, that's us. It's the Christian church, it's believers. And so we in Christ are to set life free in the power of the Holy Spirit, by God's word, by his gospel. Until, of course, all of creation obtains that glorious freedom of God's children. So there's a beautiful tapestry of divine revelation here that really brings us home to us. So what I'm saying is Christians should take encouragement from that, is that you are an agent of renewal. That creation is groaning. It's longing to be released from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom that you now enjoy in Christ. And Christ has made you a partaker of his grace so that you now cooperate with him in this reconciliation, this restoration, and this renewal of a fallen creation that God says is not bad, although it is marred by sin. God calls it good, and he will have it. He shed his blood to purchase it, just like he purchased you from sin.

[Luke the Bear]

So good, dude. And that reminded me of a Christmas song we all know.

[Zach]

Joy to the World.

[Luke the Bear]

Yes, sir. Every year at Christmas, Christians sing this song. And I don't know that they really know what they're singing, and it would agree with what we're saying.

[Zach]

Here's the other thing about that, though, too, that I've noticed.

[Luke the Bear]

Yes.

[Zach]

Is a lot of our renditions leave that verse out.

[Luke the Bear]

Really?

[Zach]

We don't sing that.

[Luke the Bear]

Interesting.

[Zach]

So here's what I mean, I'm gonna.

[Luke the Bear]

I'm gonna. I got it pulled up, but go ahead.

[Zach]

No more. Let sins and sorrows grow. Yeah, we often leave that right out in many popular editions of that song, which, by the way, wasn't even written originally as a Christmas song.

[Luke the Bear]

Sure.

[Zach]

We've come to sing it.

[Luke the Bear]

Sure.

[Zach]

In that way for good reason. Because the incarnation is the arrival of our king.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And let earth receive her king. Right?

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Zach]

But read that verse, because this is often left out of when we sing it.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah. I'm going to go through all of it here. It's only four verses, so, you know, joy to the world, the Lord has come. Right? Yes. That's an amen. Christians would agree to that in general. But what's the next line say? Let earth receive her king. Do you know, a lot of Christians, do they really believe that there may be this now and not yet feeling of that?

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

But is Jesus really, you know, the king now of earth? Right. Let every heart prepare him room and heaven and nature sing. And then next verse. Joy to the Lord, Joy of the earth, the Savior reigns again. Yes, and amen. But do Christians really believe that Christ is now ruling and reigning? Let men their songs employ While fields and floods, rocks, hills and plains Repeat the sound of joy. Now, here's where you're getting at. No more let sins and sorrows grow Nor thrones infest Thorns. Sorry? Thorns infest the ground. Wow. I just said thrones. I can't read. I am waiting for my glasses. They were. They're supposed to be delivered today, so hopefully I can read better next week. North thorns infest the ground. He comes to make his blessings flow. And this is where I got this from Sandlin. Far as the curse Is found. Which is Erwer.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

The curse is found everywhere. So that means that the gospel should go forth everywhere and Christ is ruling and reigning everywhere as far as the curse is found. But go ahead. You were going to make a point on that verse.

[Zach]

I think it's important, the imagery of the thorns.

[Luke the Bear]

And thrones.

[Zach]

And thrones, of course. Think about the thorns, though. When are we introduced to this metaphor? Metaphor, I should say. When are we introduced to this imagery in scripture of the thorn? I believe they were literal, by the way. So God said to Adam, your work will now be cursed and what you yield from the ground will yield thorns and thistles. So Adam in the garden, charged with the mission of God and Eve, his co laborer, his helper, were charged with taking and subduing the raw materials of creation to make it into a God glorifying kingdom.

[Luke the Bear]

Which they were doing before the fall.

[Zach]

Correct.

[Luke the Bear]

It just didn't suck.

[Zach]

After the fall, that work becomes cursed. Work was not cursed to begin with, but there was going to be pain in childbirth. And then the curse of the disobedience is that Adam would and his work would yield thorns. And when Christ comes and he goes to the cross, the sign of the curse on the ground is placed where? On top of his head. So Christ takes the curse of humanity, the curse of sin, the curse on creation, and he wears it on his head on the cross. And I just think that that's more powerful than we imagine. And we realize no more let sins and sorrows grow, nor thorns infest the ground. Why he comes. Okay. And yes, we believe that there will be a final coming one day. But the king has come. And that's why there's a proclamation. Let earth receive her king.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah.

[Zach]

He comes to make his blessings flow far as the curse is found. So if the curse is found there, he's come to make his blessings flow.

[Luke the Bear]

To it and to tie the room together like a fine rug. What did he do after he defeated death? He removed his thorns and receded on his throne. See what I did there? The last verse. The last verse.

[Zach]

Then we really need to sing that verse more.

[Luke the Bear]

He rules the world, Does He? Yes, he does. He rules the world with the word world with truth and grace and makes the nations prove the glories of his righteousness and wonders of his love.

[Zach]

That isn't that the story? He. He comes to make his blessings flow far as the curse is found. He makes the nations prove the glories of his righteousness and wonders of his love. Right. What did Jesus come for? He came for the whole world. He came for the nations. He came to renew the world and he came for his people. Right. The nations. And that's an ongoing project. The nations right now are proving the wonders of his love. That's why we're sitting here talking about it.

[Luke the Bear]

Amen. I'm ready for Christmas now. What are we four months away?

[Zach]

I'm sure it'll be here before no.

[Luke the Bear]

Less than, well, three. Oh, just under four months.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah. I gotta start. I'm an early Christmas shopper so I gotta start getting my stuff together.

[Zach]

And I am the opposite.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, that's my wife. Yeah, I usually done shopping by. By December 1st sometimes. Anyways, dude, that was a great way to end this episode. Super good. I did not plan on going Christmas the Christmas route but it works. It really put a little bow, no pun intended on the conversation. Maybe it was pun intended. You can check out shop apologiesstudios.com to get some of these sweet track. Look, we got the gospel of the kingdom track down there. The good news of God in English and espanol. We got our don't murder your baby tracks in English and espanol. We got the hope for tomorrow which deals with suicide. We got the gospel for mormons and of course the tracks we hand out at the strip clubs. Not in the strip clubs. Just to be clear about that outside of the show.

[Zach]

I'm glad that you made that clarification.

[Luke the Bear]

Yeah, that's good. It's a good clarification. Can we got the sweet precept. The best part of waking up is pre sipping your cup. Good stuff. We got our swag. We got our shirts. We got our hats. You go to shop apologiostudios.com Help us keep the lights running. We're grateful for everyone that subscribes to all access. You make this happen. We will stick around for an after show here in a few minutes for all our all accessors and continue the conversation. Thank you also everyone that supports an abortion. Now we are now moving into the last quarter of the year which means we are getting ready to ramp up for another legislative season which is going to be busy. Last year we were. I think we might have had a record number of stays last year. Hopefully we'll have even more this year which keeps us very busy. Stretches is very thin but also requires funding. So we're grateful for everyone that helps participate in that and and helping us to save babies. Anything you want to add on on that on the end? Abortion now Front director of communications Doc.

[Zach]

Need your help, you know, thanks in advance.

[Luke the Bear]

Excellent. Well, we'll be back next week. Not sure what we're talking about yet. We'll figure that out. But thank you again, everyone, and Merry Christmas.

[Zach]

Thanksgiving hasn't come, but Merry Christmas.

[Luke the Bear]

Thanksgiving is just like a pit stop.

[Zach]

On the way to Christmas.

[Luke the Bear]

Yes. It's like a little bump in the road on the way to Christmas. It's just like a get. You ready for Christmas, you know? Thanksgiving hits and it's like, all right, now we're four weeks away.

[Zach]

Prime your hearts with Thanksgiving.

[Luke the Bear]

Prime your hearts for Thanksgiving. Look at that. Right at the end of the timer. Seriously. Thank you, everyone. We're grateful for you. We'll be back next week. Peace out.

[Zach]

See you guys.