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Apologia Radio
543. An Inside Look at the Charlie Kirk Memorial
01:14:44
Join us for the newest episode of Apologia Radio in which we talk about attending the Charlie Kirk memorial. We were there and give you an inside look and commentary. Tell someone!
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- [00:00]
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Jeff Durbin
Non Rockabotus Must stop.
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Charlie Kirk (memorial speaker or referenced speaker)
I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it.
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Jeff Durbin
Are you gonna bark all day, little doggy? Or are you gonna bite? Delusional. Yeah, delusional is okay. In your worldview, I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being you Calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly okay. It doesn't really hurt.
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Charlie Kirk (memorial speaker or referenced speaker)
She hung up on me.
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Jeff Durbin
What? What? Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men. The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage.
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Luke the Bear
Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies, not to make rosas.
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Jeff Durbin
Right.
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Luke the Bear
Don't go into the world and make ponies disciples.
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Jeff Durbin
I got a bit of a jiggle neck. That's a joke. Master, when we have the real message.
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Charlie Kirk (memorial speaker or referenced speaker)
Of truth, we cannot let somebody say.
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Jeff Durbin
They'Re speaking truth when they're not. Take an amazing journey to a place that will blow your mind and move your mind so you will never be the same again. And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, whom shall I send and who will go for us? Then I said, here I am. Send me Isaiah, chapter six, everyone, starting with verse eight. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the gospel heard around the world. This is Apologia Radio. You can get more at apologiastudios.com that's a P O L O G I a apologiastudios.com go over there when the show is done. Sign up for All Access. When you sign up for All Access, you make everything that we do possible. All the people all around the world. This is a ministry with global impact, hundreds of millions of views and people getting a hold of the gospel and the engagements. It's just, it's an incredible, incredible thing to be a part of. God is moving powerfully through this ministry. Jehovah's Witnesses coming to Christ, Mormons coming to Christ, atheists coming to Christ, babies being saved. It really is incredible. When you go to Apologia all access@apacheStudios.com, you can guys partner with us in all of that ministry. Everything that's coming out of Apologia studios is because of people just like you who are part of this ministry with us. And when you go to get all Access, you also get all kinds of additional content, the after shows, the Ask me anything, full episodes of Collision Apology Academy, the stuff we have with Eli Ayala to help you, equip you with your apologetic defense of the Christian faith. All kinds of stuff there. Go sign up afterwards, be a part of this ministry with us. Thank you to everybody who is in this ministry with us. I mean, I'm telling you, you don't get to hear all the stories that we hear regularly of people whose lives have been completely transformed for eternity because of what God is doing through this. So thank you, thank you, thank you. That's Luke the Bear.
- [04:12]
Luke the Bear
What up?
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Jeff Durbin
I'm Jeff the Coleman the ninja. Welcome to Apologia Radio again. So we wanted to do a special episode because we were there on the Charlie Kirk memorial. It was really, really something. It was by far, by far the largest event I have ever been at in my entire life. Oh, yeah, without question, hands down. And you almost didn't get in.
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Luke the Bear
I was like, literally one of the two people they let in. So.
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Jeff Durbin
So long story, personal story. So TPUSA contacted me the week of and asked if I wanted to get, you know, the floor seats where the pastors sit right behind, like, you know, all the big wig legislators and things like that and, you know, Elon Musk and those guys. And so I was like, yeah, absolutely. And you know, my son was a big Charlie Kirk fan, so I thought it'd be great to bring him. He'd probably be really blessed by that. So, so took advantage of that and contacted a couple more people for them that would probably want to go Mark Spence from Living Waters and stuff like that. Luke initially wasn't going to be able to go, and then he got a hookup the day before, right?
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Luke the Bear
Yeah, literally. Yeah, yeah, it was full. And then, yeah, Asa called me on Saturday morning and said, I got you in.
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Jeff Durbin
So, yeah, so we go. And now, obviously, we knew it was going to be nuts. And, you know, it's our hometown, and that stadium is not far from my house, a little farther away for Luke. And so, yeah, it's only normally about a 25 minute drive. And, you know, getting to the streets surrounding this stadium were not. It wasn't too difficult. I thought the freeway is going to be backed up. They actually weren't. But as soon as you got off, that's where it was. It was bad. And so we were stuck in, you know, traffic for a long, long time. And so what was bad about it was I. Because when you're on the floor and you get those pastor seats, they also give you that VIP thing. The VIP parking apparently didn't matter. Didn't make a difference whatsoever. So they gave us VIP parking so we can get right into the arena. You know, people are parking for miles away. You get to see people, like, parking in dirt. I was like, y' all are going to get towed. I mean, that's the first thing I said. I'm like, two miles away. I see people parking in random.
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Luke the Bear
They didn't let tow trucks do that.
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Jeff Durbin
But they did. They did. People got towed. Yeah. Yeah. They were telling people it was a. It was a good day for the tow truck companies in Arizona. A very good day. People definitely got toast. And so I was like, they're gonna tell those people. So we. We get up into the VIP line so we can get onto the stadium property. And as I'm trying to get into the line. Thank God. Seriously, thank God. This cop comes up to me as I'm about to turn into the line, and he says, hey, you're in the VIP thing. I said. He goes, yeah, I've been here for hours. That line hasn't moved. That's a VIP line. He is. If you get in that, you're not getting in. I was like, what do I do? He said, I'd say just park down that way in the lot on this side and just walk. And that walk was probably a mile.
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Luke the Bear
I only had to walk five. Five minutes after I finally.
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Jeff Durbin
Where did you park?
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Luke the Bear
At the wall. Because I waited in line. Anyways, I spent two hours. I drove in the truck for two hours. Trying to park, but I ended up going right past that and then there. And in front of the other stadium there, a lot opened up.
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Jeff Durbin
That's wild.
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Luke the Bear
And they're like, I literally just went parked all the way over, and I was, like, literally across the street from the city. Yeah. And so it took me five minutes.
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Jeff Durbin
To walk over there. That's why. Good. Good on you.
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Luke the Bear
After.
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Jeff Durbin
It was a nightmare, but I barely got in, so it was a nightmare for us. So. So we get into that parking lot, and then we still have to walk. It seemed like a mile to get to the line to get in. And the cops were all telling us different things. The cops were like, no, go that way. So we walked all around the stadium that way, and then we got over there. The cop goes, well, no, you're looking for the VIP gate. That's the other side. I'm like, the guy said the VIPs. And this side, he's like, no, he's wrong. So we walked around the stadium like this several times and finally got to the right line. Anyway, it was wild. Getting in was just a crazy experience because what was there, they said, I heard different numbers, like a hundred thousand people inside and a hundred thousand people.
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Luke the Bear
Outside, and maybe like 250 total with the other stadium and stuff.
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Jeff Durbin
So, yeah, it was something. I've never seen so many people in one place. It's. I mean, honestly, that's. It was crazy. And people were, you know, super respectful and pleasant, and it was. It was a cool crowd to be around, let's just put it that way. So finally get in and get down to the floor. And on the floor. I mean, it was. It was a cool experience because everybody that you regularly see on the Daily Wire or any other conservative, you know, network and Legislate.
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Luke the Bear
Placer. I can't talk today, but, yeah, all the politicians.
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Jeff Durbin
All the politicians. I mean, Elon Musk.
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Luke the Bear
I could have touched Elon Musk.
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Jeff Durbin
Yeah, he was that close. And I mean, yeah, honestly, like Ted Cruz and, you know, all those guys, Trump's cabinet was all there. So it was great, too, because we got to see a lot of old friends and other pastors. And I mean, I mean, in terms of pastors from across the country, you name it, they were probably there. I mean, even local guys like Mark Driscoll and, you know, other local pastors, and, you know, of course, the guys from Living Waters, and some of you guys saw the photo I put up with Mike. Mike Winger. I love that guy. And it was. It was a cool experience just to make contact with people. But here was, Here was what I thought as it started. So they had worship music playing all the way up to, like, you know, when it actually began. And the. I'd say the half an hour before they actually started at 11, and then maybe 15, 20 minutes after was truly a unique experience. It was really something. I mean, that last set of worship songs going into the actual event, it was wild. It was wild. And my son. My son is. I love my son. He's just awesome. I mean, he's just. He's incredible. But he's not usually kind of like a hands up kind of guy, like, in worship, like, hands up and singing up super loud. But I looked over at him at the as is about the start, and he's got his hands up in the air and he's singing super loud. I was like, wow. He was super moved. And he thought it was just a powerful experience. So I, I, I really, really am grateful to God that I had the privilege to be a part of that and to see all that. And of course, what I said was, and I think I said this to you, that it dawned on me as it started. You've got Elon Musk and every major legislator, like, big wig, conservative, you know, talking head. They're all there. Matt Walsh is there. Everybody's there. And I thought what a unique experience this is because all these people that aren't even Christians just got dropped into a Christian worship service. That was the wild. It dawned on me these people that probably don't go to church never even attended a church, possibly. They just got dropped into this massive worship service, and all they heard about was Jesus and the gospel. And it was just like six hours of. They were just getting inundated with a message of Jesus. Yeah, it was powerful to see.
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Luke the Bear
Yeah, I was. I mean, I did like a panorama video of when Tomlin was up singing Holy, Holy or something. I forget. And just the whole stadium just singing about God's holiness.
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Jeff Durbin
Yes.
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Luke the Bear
And I'll just. I just want to say this because I am seeing these people come in the chat now, like all y' all that are complaining about how do you reform people, justify the people on stage? It's like, listen, man, the Lord's doing something. There's no doubt about that. And that worship was an experience that I've never had and probably never will again. Like, the Lord's moving and we need to not. We need to get out of our little reformed bubbles ghetto ghettos and quit nitpicking all that stuff and just like, like, it's like jump on board or get out of the way is how I feel about it, because, like, I really, truly believe there's a revival coming. Like that. That was like the start of it, I think. And so I. I just don't even have time to entertain those questions, to be honest.
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Jeff Durbin
I think it's important because you can look, you can say that and look, the Reformed community, our church, we're Reformed. We want to be precise on doctrine. We want to care about doctrine. We want to make sure that we're preaching the truth, teaching the truth, being faithful exe. The scriptures faithfully. All that really should go without saying, without question. I mean, I think if you look at the entire history of apology, history of apologia, that's what you see is a very concerted effort to make sure there's theological precision. But what we've always also said is that you need to be that way on the essentials of the Christian faith, the grace of God and salvation, who is Jesus Christ, the authority of scripture and all that. And that's how we need to be as a church. Now, do I have a problem with many people who are in attendance at Charlie Kirk's memorial? Do I have very strenuous objections to what they say and they teach? Yes, absolutely. But I want you to remember that this wasn't a formal church service with pastors overseeing. So, you know, I'm saying this is not a confetti. There's not a confession of face faith of that church and you know, that denomination. This was an ecumenical. And I. Now I know how bad that word can be. And trust me, I'm not for, like, an ecumenical movement where you just throw off the essentials of the faith. I'm not, you know that. I'm not that guy. Please, you guys should know that very clearly. I hope in my life and ministry and teaching has said that. But there is a proper ecumenical ecumenicism. And at certain, in certain times, like, for example. Let me just try to give an example of this. So with end abortion, now, we have to go to different states and we have to try to rally the church to get together to preach the truth and to go to legislators and to demand the immediate abolition of abortion. We have to do that. And sometimes when I go to these states, I'll go to a state say, like Georgia. And in front of me in the room, I've got Anglican pastors, Presbyterian pastors, charismatic pastors, Baptist pastors, Armenian pastors, Calvinist pastors. It's. It's A room where we actually all agree on the essentials and the main issues related especially to the issue of abortion. And so we're joining together in with a biblical ecumenical mindset to say we will allow the Adiaphora to be the Adiaphora and we're going to join together as the Church of the Living God on these central issues that we all agree on. I mean, you've got Premill in the room at these meetings, you've got Amel at the room at these meetings and you've got Postmill at the me. I mean, you've got churches that head cover, churches that don't cover head cover. You got psalm only churches and you've got modern worship music churches. But we're joined together as the truly Catholic church, universal church, not Roman Catholic, Catholic Church. There's a Catholic biblical catholicity there to join together as the church to fight off an evil. And this is a moment like this. This was, this is a public event. It was filled with Christians of, from all kinds of different backgrounds. Were there heretics there? Yep. Were there heretics in the stand in the nosebleed section? Yep. Were there people who, who were lost in a nosebleed section? Yep. Were there, Are there problems, especially with some of the people doing worship on stage? Yep. Without question. But what I want to seize upon as a minister of the gospel and just as a Christian is this moment where Christ is being preached. And we shouldn't have a problem with that. We have to just basically say, I'll deal with all this other woo woo stuff for sure. I'm going to confront it, I'm going to deal with it. But in this moment, this stadium is filled with a lot of lost souls that just heard about Jesus. And all these leaders of our country right here are hearing about Charlie Kirk's faith in Christ, that it was to his Lordship that he yielded and he believed in the authority of the scriptures and this is the Gospel. Repent and believe all that stuff. It was an amazing moment. I think we should celebrate that. And of course, at the same time, exercise and proceed with serious caution when any of these movements get off the ground. Proceed with serious caution and correction. As you're navigating it, we're not saying that, you know, compromise and slip into heresy or allow heresy. One more example of that. Luke, have you seen something here? You know, when we, we did. What event was this? Louisiana. When we had our bill in Louisiana, we did our rally there. Were you there? You were there for the rally, right?
- [16:25]
Luke the Bear
Yeah.
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Jeff Durbin
Okay.
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Luke the Bear
It was so hot.
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Jeff Durbin
It was so, so hot.
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Luke the Bear
It was melted.
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Jeff Durbin
We had a bill in Louisiana, historic bill, some of you guys may know about it. It was the first bill since Roe vs. Wade, abolition bill, bill of equal protection, that made it to a hearing that was unusual. It made it through the hearing that was highly unusual. Never happened before, and to the floor in Louisiana. So we did a rally outside the Capitol to get everyone ready. And the church rallied for the bill that was coming to the floor. And, you know, lo and behold, who showed up to the rally, a bunch of Roman Catholics and Roman Catholic priests. And so we controlled the rally. And of course, if there are Roman Catholics that want to see the abolition of abortion and they want to say, hey, that's the imago DEI and that's murder. And we want it stopped immediately. I say, hey, come. We need you to talk to legislators. Tell them. Tell them what God's law says. Tell them it's murder. Tell them you want it stopped for sure. But some of these Roman Catholics try to, like, make their way up on the stage to be a part of the rally. And they were holding up, like, statues of Mary. And so I had to. In the. I had to in the middle of the rally. I mean, there's people, all kinds of people. I had to. In the middle of the rally, sweaty as I was, come down to this dude that was holding this big statue of Mary and trying to get up to the top where the, like, imagine here's the crowd, we're up here stairs, and we have, like, our people who are there to, like, talk about the important issues at the rally. And homeboy tries to walk up the stairs with a statue of Mary to get, like, in, literally to put Mary in front of the speaker. Speaker and just to, like, you know, make. Just to draw attention to himself and Mary. And so I had to graciously come down and say, hey, how you doing? We need you to step off the stairs, you know, because the rally's going on. You can't be in the way like this. He got super offended. And he was like, what? What? What? Says who? I said, well, me. And he was like, who are you? I said, it's my rally. And so he was like, I don't want to. I said, I'm going to ask you to step down. You have to go back to the crowd. So in a moment like that, I'm still trying to control the purity of the gospel and the purity of the message with kind of a mixed bag of people around an issue that actually is vital that they join Together on. And I'm still trying to control and maintain theological fidelity and protect against idolatry or Mariolatry in the midst of it. So I think you gotta navigate that along the way. But look, I guess maybe just put it in that sense for me. I need Mormons, I need Catholics, I need atheists to also want the abolition of abortion. Now, I'm not gonna speak on a stage with the guy and say, oh, we're all good and everything's fine. We're coming from the same perspective. But I'd love them to go and vote and I'd love them to go and tell their legislator. Yeah, I agree with those end abortion now guys. I agree with those guys. You need to abolish this. And so, I don't know. That's a good way, I think, to frame it.
- [19:21]
Luke the Bear
Yeah, it's funny, I kind of came up. It's a funny illustration, but the other day I was talking to somebody and I'm like, if you think of it like, if you think of like the essentials as ice cream, just bear with me here.
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Jeff Durbin
Looks like food analogy.
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Luke the Bear
You're gonna like this, though.
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Jeff Durbin
You're gonna like this because I love ice cream.
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Luke the Bear
So we all, and, and we're all like, we all agree that ice cream's a good thing, right?
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Jeff Durbin
Amen.
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Luke the Bear
We all agree on that. But then you go to like basket Robbins, 31 flavors. That's what we had on Sunday. You got all flavors of ice cream up in there. But we all agree that ice cream is good.
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Jeff Durbin
Yeah.
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Luke the Bear
You know, and obviously you got all the covenant or type. They're just the plain vanilla. They don't like anything fun, you know, and then you got the charismatics who, like, they're the, like, mixing bowl would just dump everything in there, you know, so like, that was describing to someone like the other day. But it's, that's, it's silly, but it's, that's effective. And I just, you know, and I'm seeing some of the stuff in the chat, like, of course there's a lot of emotionalism right now.
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Jeff Durbin
Sure.
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Luke the Bear
You know, there was a ton of people that stood up and said, you know, they accepted Christ at the altar call thing that McCoy did. And, you know, I, I'm. I'm always skeptical of those. But like, here's, here's. The point is we shouldn't be just sitting here grumbling and poo poo and everything. It's like, guys, you can't see the forest through the trees. You're like the Lord's at work in our nation. And it wasn't just our nation. It's going across the world.
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Jeff Durbin
Right.
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Luke the Bear
Like, it's insane. I mean, they're saying there's at least 100 million views.
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Jeff Durbin
Right.
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Luke the Bear
Like, the gospel's never going on. And if people are going to sit here and say that the gospel wasn't preached on Sunday, then I don't know what you guys are watching, because you're watching the same thing.
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Jeff Durbin
Read how Paul. Read how Paul articulates the gospel in First Corinthians 15. You heard that numerous times.
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Luke the Bear
Yeah.
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Jeff Durbin
And like, lived, died, was buried, rose again. Yeah, Yeah.
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Luke the Bear
I mean, to see people that normally you would think have no business talking about the gospel, preaching the gospel, and I don't even know if they even knew what they were saying.
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Jeff Durbin
It's good. Like, don't.
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Luke the Bear
We.
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Jeff Durbin
Don't. We don't have to. And reform. Foreign folks are really. Usually. We're good. We're good at this. Throwing cold water on what could be a very good thing because we. We want so much theological precision, precision. We should want that. That sometimes we miss out on. Well, what's the. What's the gospel fruit in this thing right here? And there's real gospel fruit we can seize upon.
- [21:34]
Luke the Bear
Yeah.
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Jeff Durbin
In this thing right here. It's a good thing. And it doesn't mean as you get forward, you can't navigate with caution and protection. You absolutely can. But if people are talking about Jesus right now and the lordship of Jesus Christ and his kingship. Don't throw cold water. Yeah, that's. That's kind of what we've been working for. Yeah. And we can definitely, throughout us, maintain fidelity to the truth, protect all the essentials of the faith. For sure. But be careful about throwing cold water on people who are saying, Christ is king, he has all authority, and he's the only way to salvation. People are like, well, but, you know, I don't like your style of worship. And sometimes I'm like, I don't like it either, but I'm not throwing cold water. I'm not throwing cold water on people calling Jesus Lord and saying he's the only way to salvation. I am not throwing cold water on that. I'm going to seize upon it and take advantage of the opportunity to say, hey, let's collect all these people that say they now love Jesus. Let's get them into solid, solid biblical churches under good, solid, qualified pastors, and then feed them and guide them and disciple them. I just don't want to have the movement just sort of tamped out because it's not as precise as we'd like it to be.
- [22:44]
Luke the Bear
Yeah. You know, the cross politic boys, they talked about that this week and I thought it was a really good, really good point. Oh, no, it was actually. I was watching Charlie's show with Ali Beth and Costi was on there. Sorry. And Kirk Cameron. But, well, I guess they both are saying, anyways, the point is like, there's going to be people coming to Christ through this. And I mean, I have people messaging me that said, hey, I saw you at the memorial. I've like turned my life to Christ because of this, you know, so, like, we need to be available for those people to disciple them because, you know, God's bringing. Gonna be bringing the fish to us. And so we shouldn't sit back and just be super skeptical. We should be looking for opportunities to reach those people.
- [23:23]
Jeff Durbin
I was, I was talking to one of our friends a couple days ago and he said. I talked to him on the phone. I think I can say it. Gary. I was talking to Captain Gary and he said that he was just. The night before, he'd been weeping and just with joy, he said, because a guy that he had been trying to reach for years with the gospel contacted him and was. And it's like because of all this, I started looking into the scriptures and he want to let you know that I've turned my life over to Christ. And Gary was like, oh my goodness, he's blown away by it.
- [23:51]
Luke the Bear
Sorry, these, these comments. I. I'll. Well, this is the end of the segment, so I'll just end on this. I mean, we. You. One of my favorite moments was you. You and I are both sitting behind where all the legislators ran. And I think it was Benny Johnson was going hard right at them on Romans 13. Remember that?
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Jeff Durbin
Yeah.
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Luke the Bear
It's like Ottinger was in front of me, turned around, he was like, bro. Like, that was a powerful, powerful moment. Like to have them all in one place and be like, listen, you all have this.
- [24:23]
Jeff Durbin
Now that you're here, we're telling you about Jesus. It was really cool. All right, guys, so quick commercial break. And we come back. We're gonna play clips from the memorial. We are going to address Erica Kirk's comments on the forgiveness of the murderer and the assassin. We're going to try to address that biblically. People have asked if we've been getting any questions over the last couple of weeks. The one we've gotten the most is on how do you navigate that biblically? What does real forgiveness and reconciliation look like. I hope, hopefully what we say will be helpful here. And it was truly a powerful moment to witness Erica Kirk say and do what she did there. It was really powerful. So we can go to a quick commercial break, Be right back and we'll talk about it. This episode's brought to you by ion layer@ionlayer.com Go and check out the health benefits, the wellness benefits and longevity benefits of NAD treatments. NAD is nicknamed the fountain of youth for a reason. You have an abundance of this in your system when you're young. As you get older, it drops off. And now we found a way to get NAD into our systems. They do it through IV treatments, but they're very expensive and it's also extremely painful and difficult. However, Ion Layer found a way to get a high dose of NAD into your system through a medical patch you wear on your arm. You wear it for about 14 hours. You get a high dose of NAD treatment into your system and no pain at all. And it is a fraction of the cost of what you would pay through for an IV treatment. In the coupon code, type in Apologia in all caps. They're going to hook you up with a great disc discount for an already amazingly cost effective product. And they bless Apologia studios and help us to stay on the air and do all these programs with you. Don't forget. Also, Ion Layer has added a glutathione patch as well. Glutathione, the master antioxidant. Go check out the health benefits of glutathione. I'm doing this stuff anyways. It's blessed my life in tremendous ways. And so if you want to focus on your health, wellness and longevity, nothing better in my mind than ionlayer.com for your NAD and Glutathione treatments. Ionlayer.com don't forget to put Apologia in all caps in the coupon code. And we're back. Were there some extremely cringy moments at the Charlie Kirk memorial? Yes. My family was on a thread. You know, my son was with me. My family's on, I have family thread. And my family thread was just, just going off at moments and guys were speaking, they were like, dad, did you hear what he just said? They were like coming down from a mountain like Moses and like, Charlie Kirk died for you. And they were like, good grief. They're like, get guy off the stage. So just so you know, the Durbin household was, you know, discernment on and, and, and saying, you know, yeah, but then of course that's what you get with a mixed bag event like this. This wasn't a church service. This wasn't a local church context. This was a public memorial. And so I think people need to take that into consideration. And, you know, there's definitely some moments of cringe, lots of moments of cringe. But overall, I was thankful. So our boys over at Cross Politic put together a pretty good montage. We're going to place through some of that right now and talk through it. It. Charlie wanted his Savior to be the guest of honor. He wanted all of you to receive this gift from him. The why and what he did. Charlie was never afraid because he knew his life was secure in the hand of God. We are resolved to live free from lies and seek out what is true. We will respectfully, boldly challenge what is accepted by culture in order to seek out what is true and acceptable to, to God Almighty alone.
- [28:04]
Tucker Carlson
This gathering and God's presence, God's very obvious presence in this room, the presence of Jesus, is a reminder of what we've known for 2,000 years, which is any attempt to extinguish the light causes it to burn brighter every single time.
- [28:22]
Charlie Kirk (memorial speaker or referenced speaker)
Where did his fearlessness come from? The answer lies in Corinthians. Therefore, be always of good courage and know that while we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord. We are of good courage, I say, and prefer to be absent from the body and at home with the Lord. Therefore, we have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to him. Now, I want you to know that Charlie, Robert, right now, is in heaven. Not because he was a great husband and father, not because he saved millions of kids out of darkness on college campuses, not because he changed minds and chased votes to save the country, not because he sacrificed himself for his Savior. Charlie Kirk is in heaven because. Because his Savior sacrificed himself for Charlie Kirk. My charge to all of you, live worthy of Charlie Kirk's sacrifice and put.
- [29:32]
Jeff Durbin
Christ at the center of your life.
- [29:35]
Charlie Kirk (memorial speaker or referenced speaker)
As he advocated for giving his.
- [29:38]
Jeff Durbin
For those of us who were friends with Charlie, we don't need any more evidence of the love of God because the evidence, the friendship, is the best evidence that God loves us all. Thank you and God bless you.
- [29:55]
Charlie Kirk (memorial speaker or referenced speaker)
The movement Charlie Kirk led and started and gave fuel to was about politics, but not only about politics. It was deeper, it was broader. And I would say that taking the liberty, but I'm confident he would agree. One of the things he wants us to take away from this, from all of this, is the following his deep belief that we were all created, every single one of us, before the beginning of time by the hands of the God of the universe, an all powerful God who loved us and created us for the purpose of living with him in eternity. But then sin entered the world and separated us from our creator. And so God took on the form of a man and came down and lived, lived among us. And he suffered like men and he died like a man. But on the third day he rose unlike any mortal man. And then listen, any doubters wrong? He ate with his disciples so they could see and they touched his wounds. He didn't rise as a ghost or as a spirit, but his flesh. And then he rose to the heaven. But he promised he would return. And he will. And when he returns, because he took on that death, because he carried that cross, we were freed from the sin that separated us from him. And when he returns, there will be a new heaven and a new earth and we will all be together. And we are going to have a great reunion there again with Charlie and all the people we love. Thank you and God bless you.
- [31:28]
Jeff Durbin
The Bible says over a hundred times in the pages of of Scripture, this is what God do not be afraid.
- [31:34]
Charlie Kirk (memorial speaker or referenced speaker)
And the hundred thousand people here today.
- [31:37]
Jeff Durbin
Are a signal to the world. Our message of faith, family and country.
- [31:44]
Charlie Kirk (memorial speaker or referenced speaker)
Will not be silenced. I always felt a little uncomfortable talking about my faith in public.
- [31:50]
Jeff Durbin
As much as I loved the Lord.
- [31:52]
Charlie Kirk (memorial speaker or referenced speaker)
And as much as it was an.
- [31:54]
Jeff Durbin
Important part of my life, I have.
- [31:56]
Charlie Kirk (memorial speaker or referenced speaker)
Talked about, talked more about Jesus Christ.
- [31:59]
Jeff Durbin
In the past two weeks than I.
- [32:01]
Charlie Kirk (memorial speaker or referenced speaker)
Have my entire time in public life.
- [32:03]
Jeff Durbin
Beautiful.
- [32:03]
Charlie Kirk (memorial speaker or referenced speaker)
Charlie brought the truth that Jesus Christ was the King of Kings and that all truth flowed from this first and most important one.
- [32:12]
Jeff Durbin
Before each appearance, he prayed these. So wow, here's what, here's what I was so thankful for in all of this. For a long time we have tried very humbly and this, the small ministry that we are at the very beginning to try to communicate that you cannot transform the world through a Christless conservatism. Right? So what I mean by, what we've meant by that and try to, how we've tried to articulate it is you have all these conservative leaders and lawmakers and that's why it's important to have this conversation with them. Because they're saying that this, you must do this, you ought to do this, but not that. That's what legislators do, they're lawmakers. And so they're making claims about what is lawful, what you ought to do and ought not to do. And so that's, that's in the realm of the authority of Jesus. Because if you're going to talk about lawfulness and morality, I mean, Jesus has something to say about that. And what we've said is you've got all these conservatives that run on a platform like I represent the conservative or those Christians back there, and that's where my values are and I'm a believer and all that. But then when they get into legislation, they. There's no mention of Jesus, no mention of the Bible really. It's, it's sort of like there's a neutrality that they step into when they get into legislation. They feel like, okay, like in the background, everyone's supposed to know, right? Like, you know, Republicans are Christians, Christians are Republicans, conservative party. That's sort of, that's the atmosphere of it all, is that, you know, the Christians are a part of the Republican Party. They'll never be Democrat because those leftists, they teach all these anti biblical things, but it's sort of always just hidden in the background. It does Christless conservatism. They want what only the Bible could give you. They want what only Jesus could give you. But they won't bring the message of Jesus in the Bible into public life. They pretend like I can do this with neutrality and not explicitly as a Christian. And what we've said for a long time is that Christians want, Christians deeply, deeply want someone to go and lead who says explicitly it's because King Jesus says, it's because the Bible says, yeah, I'm actually fighting against abortion because Scripture teaches, God's Word teaches. And yeah, I can fight all the battles biologically and with the science and everything else, but fundamentally you'll reject that anyways. And so I'm coming with the authority of God's word here. And that's why we ought to do this morally. Because Jesus says, I've said for a long time. Luke said for a long time. We've all said for a long time, Christians want people to enter into this arena and just be explicit with their commitments. Jesus is Lord. He has all authority in heaven, on earth. And that's how we should be speaking. That's how we should fight this fight. Like we should be able to say because God says, like in the transgender issue. Because God says, God says in his word, male and female, he created them. Image of God, he created them. And because God says he's the creator. And that's what, that's what this is all about. It's to the glory of God. And that's why we have to fight against this, because that is not according to God's own standards. And what made this unique. And listen, this is what I'm saying. What made this so powerful is, look how many people showed up for the guy who would sit there and say, here's my answer to your objection. And it's because Jesus is Lord and I'm a Christian, and you need to turn to Christ and it's your sin that separates you from God. And he was doing it explicitly. And that's what made, like Charlie so endearing to Christians is like, that's our guy. Why doesn't everybody else talk like him? Why isn't everybody else bringing Jesus into their politics? And I think that, look, you. So for every conservative leader out there who may see this, you know, maybe you'll get this, this somehow. Take a lesson from Charlie's book where he was explicit when he fought against this stuff. He would be reasoning, he'd be articulate, he would say profound things, and then he would always lean back on because of the gospel, because of Jesus. I mean. I mean, in Utah, shortly, minutes before he was murdered by that assassin, minutes before he's straight dropping bombs, gospel bombs, on that crowd without fear, without cowardice, without compromise. He's straight preaching Christ, and he calls Jesus God on a university campus. I mean, that's what everyone's been waiting for. And so I would say, look, everyone, take a note out of Charlie's book. If you're in politics, if you're a leader in this nation, if you're a talking head representing the conservative values, take a note out of his book. He was explicit with his Christian commitments and he preached Christ. And so that's what the Christian church wants to see. And everyone's always been so afraid of that. They're always afraid to say, I don't know if I can be that explicit. I don't know. You know, that could really rough things up. I don't know, like, I might get ostracized. It's like, well, God exalted up in a human way position Charlie Kirk, because I believe he was faithful enough to bring Jesus into. Into this whole conversation. And God bless his faithfulness, and Charlie was faithful in that way. So God bless his faithfulness, be faithful, and don't be afraid to bring those commitments in. And look, you've got Vice President of the Nation Marco Rubio just straight dropping biblical truths. What is happening, and what's happening is the fruit of faithfulness. That's what I got to Say it's the fruit of faithfulness. That's what Christians have wanted to see for a long time. And so get in and drive with them. Get to, get to the. Get to the destination with your Christian commitments.
- [37:53]
Luke the Bear
Yeah, yeah. I mean, God can draw straight line with a crooked stick. Right. And so because of Charlie's boldness and faithfulness, and I was going to mention, like you said, one of the last things he said was he's talking about 1 Corinthians 15, 14 before he was shot. And because of that boldness, now all of a sudden you have all of these, some of the most powerful people, not just in our nation, but in the world, spitting truth on a stage, dropping the gospel. Yes, Marco Rubio is Roman Catholic. Yes, J.D. vance is Roman Catholic. Yes. Tulsi Gabbard, some kind of Jesus mystic or something. I don't even know. Yes, Don Jr. Is a pagan, but is up there exegeting scripture like a pastor. But, like, we should praise God for that. We shouldn't be like, oh, they can't say that. It's like truth was being proclaimed with crooked sticks. We should be. We should be thankful for that and glorifying God. And you don't know what's going on in their hearts either. You don't know. They may very well, you know, be. Are being convicted and maybe they're turning to Christ. Who knows?
- [38:52]
Jeff Durbin
Like, Elon Musk is sharing the Lord's Prayer. Yeah.
- [38:55]
Luke the Bear
Like, what's going on? Like, we should be, like, just, like, fired up and ready to go. Like, like, where's the gates of hell? Because I'm ready to kick them down. Instead, we got all these Christians sitting back and they're ghettos, like you, like you said earlier, just kind of like twirling their thumbs and complaining and being curmudgeons. It's like, just shut up and get out there. Like, now's the time to get, get the gospel and get some work done. So quit being grumpy.
- [39:17]
Jeff Durbin
Get to work. And if you think you could do it better, please do. Yes, that's how I say. Like, if you don't like it, well, then please show us how to do it better, because I'll celebrate that, too. Whatever work you put in about Jesus and the gospel, I'm going to celebrate that, too. You're not my enemy. I'm not your enemy. And, and let's all, let's all just get to work. Yeah, that's the main thing. Let's get to work.
- [39:37]
Luke the Bear
I mean, the, the, the other, the option. Excuse Me, the other option we were looking at if Trump didn't get elected would have been Kamala. And I can promise, you know, this would have been going on. People will be scared and they'd be hiding and they're not going to be bold. And so it's just, to me, it's a, it's a praiseworthy, it's a gift.
- [39:52]
Jeff Durbin
We have, we have, we have, we have. This is like a, this is a truly, it's a moment of mercy on this nation and it's a moment where you have this wide open opportunity to preach the gospel. And I'm going to just say one last thing to this point, people who are, you know, complaining about it and nitpicking and things like that. Okay, all right. But you do recognize the difference in the blessing and the grace. Say, for example, could you hold this kind of an event in some Muslim countries right now? Could you be that bold?
- [40:21]
Luke the Bear
I don't know if you could even.
- [40:22]
Jeff Durbin
In the uk Would you have leaders in those Muslim countries talking about Jesus like this, just freely saying, he's Lord, He's King, he's King of heathens. And everyone, you know, 100,000 people show up and they're screaming and praising and everything else. Some places you can't even say you're a Christian or you'll go to jail. And so it's a grace. It's a grace. Celebrate it. Celebrate the grace. This is not like a half glass glass, half full or whatever. It's just honestly, look at it as a grace. This is the context we're in right now. We can just speak boldly about Jesus publicly. 100 million people watch this thing about, you know, Charlie and his legacy and then Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, hey, just accept it as a grace. Thank God for it. Say, hey, you know what? I don't agree with all that. There's some wackos there. I get that. Believe me, I totally get it. We critique those people all the time. But this is a good moment. I did want to point this out before we get to Erica's comments, actually, Tucker's comment. Oh, man, I love Tucker Carlson so much. So, so much. He, he is, he's the same guy behind the scenes as he is in front of everyone and have some experience with that. He's just a great man, truly. I really love him. So the New York Times. I was surprised by this, to be honest with you. I was really surprised by this because there's a hundred some odd thousand people at this thing. There's people everywhere. And I, I Didn't even. How would you see me? I mean, I was just in the crowd and spies everywhere. I think. So. So the New York Times came out with an article the day, the night of the memorial. I was honestly surprised to see this, and I was just weirded out by it, actually, because of all the things that we say that put us in trouble with the right. Often the title of the article is a who's who of the American right attends Charlie Kirk's Memorial. And so here's. I'll let you guys see the article here. If you look at the article, who's who of the American right attends Charlie Kirk's Memorial. You know, you've got pictures of Rubio and Gnome and Ted Cruz, and it just sort of lists who was there in attendance at the memorial. I like this part. What a. What a. An obvious. An obvious attempt to slam the president or be disrespectful. Look, just. Everyone look at this. I'll try to wave this over here. Trump administration officials. Look what they call Trump. Watch this. Look. Mr. Trump. But everybody else, everybody else gets their title. Do you see this? So everybody else gets the title here. So it's Mr. Trump. And then Vice President J.D. vance, Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, Health and Human. Everyone gets their title. And then Trump gets Mr. Trump. New York Times. I think you're. I think you're showing your cards a little too obviously there. So Trump administration officials and name everyone there. And as you move down here, you know, current and former elected officials, you get down to media personalities. Right here you got Tucker, Stephen Bannon, James o', Keefe, Matt Walsh, Benny Johnson, Laura Loomer. And then he got three religious figures. Now, there was some. There was a lot of people there. Yeah. And they, it was so weird. Like, why, why pick on me? It says, Pastor Rob McCoy, co founder of Turning Point USA Faith. Pastor Jeff Durbin, founder of an anti abortion group that seeks to criminalize Abortion is homicide. I got the longest sentence. I got the longest sentence.
- [43:37]
Luke the Bear
At least they were accurate this time. Yeah, what they said.
- [43:40]
Jeff Durbin
Yeah, they've done a whole full page thing on, On Me and us not too long ago. At least.
- [43:46]
Luke the Bear
I didn't say that you wanted to. To kill people who murdered their babies.
- [43:49]
Jeff Durbin
Right, Right. Yeah. So at least. Okay, but they still get the longest sentence there. But then they say, Frank Turek, Christian author and radio host. And on to other notable figures. You've got, you know, Elon and things like that, and Kyle Rittenhouse and Dana White. I Just thought it was weird. I was like, why? How did you pick me out of the audience, first of all? And also, why are you saying the American, right, like New York Times? Y' all need to. Y' all need to listen to what people say before you say things like that. I was so weird.
- [44:20]
Luke the Bear
Too much.
- [44:21]
Jeff Durbin
My son in law. My son in law sent to me, like, dude, he's like, look what they said. I was like, I don't know. I don't know if that's helpful. All right, so let's get to. I wanted to play this piece just because I loved it so much. This was Tucker. This part was beautiful. Powerful moment from Tucker. Here we go.
- [44:39]
Tucker Carlson
Whatever happens next in America, I hope it's in this direction because God is here and you can feel it. And Charlie would have loved this, not just because he loved large groups of people, but because ultimately he was a Christian evangelist. And it actually reminds me of my favorite story ever. So it's about 2,000 years ago in Jerusalem and Jesus shows up and he starts, starts talking about the people in power and he starts doing the worst thing that you can do, which is telling the truth about people. And they hate it. And they just go bonkers. They hate it and they become obsessed with making him stop. This guy's got to stop talking. We've got to shut this guy up. And I can just sort of picture the scene in a lamp lit room with a bunch of guys sitting around eating hummus, thinking about, what do we do about this guy telling the truth about us?
- [45:33]
Jeff Durbin
We must make him stop talking.
- [45:36]
Tucker Carlson
And there's always one guy with the bright idea. And I could just hear him say, I've got an idea. Why don't we just kill him? That'll shut him up. That'll fix the problem. It doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way. Everything is inverted and the Beatitudes tell it, I think, think the most crisply. Everything is sort of the opposite of what you think it's going to be.
- [46:03]
Jeff Durbin
Man, I love him. I really do. Tucker's one of my favorite people. That was a powerful, poignant way to say that, and I was super thankful for that. And let's get on now to actually. Quick commercial. Quick commercial break. When we come back, we're going to talk about Erica Kirk on her husband's assassin, saying, I forgive him. And we're going to just try to reason our way through that because some people wanted some help on that, saying, well, okay, like in your heart. Yes, release them. But it doesn't mean there's reconciliation and stuff like that. So we're going to talk about that very. In a very sensitive way because this was a truly beautiful moment from a woman who loves the Lord. And so I'm thankful for it. But we're going to talk about that when we come right back after this break.
- [46:49]
Luke the Bear
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- [47:33]
Jeff Durbin
So we actually weren't here for this part. No, we had to get to church. Apologia Church's Service starts at 4pm and so we had to cut out of it and try to beat all the traffic. There was no way we could have stayed to the end of this thing and left with everybody.
- [47:49]
Luke the Bear
It literally ended right as church was starting.
- [47:51]
Jeff Durbin
Yeah. You would have been caught in that traffic. I'm sure those people were miserable. Caught in that traffic. Traffic trying to leave that place. It was again, insane. So I just got, I was, I was on my way into church when this part happened, listening to it.
- [48:04]
Luke the Bear
Yeah.
- [48:05]
Jeff Durbin
And I was just moved in my car. And what's amazing is that one of the members of Apologia Church, my deacon, Nando. It's my deacon we love so much. Nando is now forever memorialized in this because the moment where she says, I forgive you, the camera switches and it's, it's Nando, though. And we're like, nando, you're, you're in this now forever. Like that very powerful historical moment. You're in it now forever. So, yeah, he's. We love his family. They're so, so precious to us. But let's get right to the moment and let's try to unpack it theologically and in such a sensitive way. It was a powerful moment. Here we go. My husband Charlie.
- [48:50]
Charlie Kirk (memorial speaker or referenced speaker)
He wanted to save young men just like the one who took his life. That young man, that young man on the cross Our Savior said.
- [49:29]
Jeff Durbin
Father, forgive.
- [49:31]
Charlie Kirk (memorial speaker or referenced speaker)
Them for they not know what they do.
- [49:37]
Jeff Durbin
That man, that young man.
- [49:45]
Charlie Kirk (memorial speaker or referenced speaker)
I forgive him.
- [50:35]
Jeff Durbin
Man.
- [50:36]
Luke the Bear
Some strength right there.
- [50:38]
Jeff Durbin
That is not, humanly speaking, in a creaturely way.
- [50:46]
Luke the Bear
Yeah.
- [50:46]
Jeff Durbin
Possible without divine grace and power. It truly. Truly a powerful moment. This is just. What is this? How many days after his murder? Just maybe 11, 12 days like that. My goodness. Oh, and just to have the. The desire to make sure, in the moment where you're remembering your husband, that you say that because she didn't have to.
- [51:17]
Luke the Bear
Yeah.
- [51:17]
Jeff Durbin
That's a very personal thing. She did not have to say that publicly. That could have been something she worked out in her own heart before the Lord. No one's asking her to say and do anything like that publicly. But she chose in such a short period of time after the murder of her husband, the murder of the father of her children, to make sure that she brought glory to God in that forgiveness. And so this whole time before this, you're hearing about God's love. You're hearing about the mercy of God and forgiveness of God in salvation. You're hearing about the love of God for sinners and that he forgives their sins if they would come to him in faith, that he gives his life for the people who actually are at war with him. And that's all you're hearing the whole time, is that this is God's love. This is divine. Only God can save sinners like this. Only God would love sinners like this. Only God would pursue sinners like this. And then you get to the wife of the murdered man, and she displays a divine love and commitment to forgive. Even the murderer of her own husband and the father of her children. She has to live without her husband for the rest of her life, and her kids have to live now without their father for the rest of their lives. I don't know that there's a worse thing. I don't. I don't know that there's a worse thing that you can do to a person than to take something like that away. Yeah, there are abuses and things that are in that same realm of violence and trauma. But, like, this is the pinnacle. It's the pinnacle of what you can do to, like, harm another human being. And for her to be able to do this, you just have to know this is divine intervention. It's the love of God poured out. And so I want to just start with that and say, this is all God to have this woman be able to do this.
- [53:27]
Luke the Bear
Yeah. I mean, I was listening to Andrew Colbert this week that was Charlie's producer. And he said. He said he knew she was going to say that. And he was like, I was fighting that in my own flesh. But I just. I got to say that I don't think I've ever been more proud of conservatives than I am right now. And this is why. Because what the left wants is for us to take the bait, right? They want a war. They want us to respond sinfully and take up arms. And that's not what's happening. We're responding with forgiveness and prayer, vigils and worship and everyone calling the world to Christ. That's how we're responding. It's just like, what a time to be.
- [54:16]
Jeff Durbin
What a difference over the last five years of the stuff that's happened, riots and burning and pillaging and raping, literally raping and murdering. When people don't get their way politically or something happens to their hero or whatever. It is an obvious distinction. And so it's a powerful moment of grace. It really, really is. And, you know, so let's talk about the issue of forgiveness, because this is a big one. And I have to just want to confess at the front of this, I am not even going to pretend. I'm not even going to pretend to be on the same level as Erica Kirk right now. And to even that I would even have the ability to stand above this right now and just speak to some of this stuff, because there's stuff that she's experiencing with God right now and that she felt led to do that I just think is miraculous. So all I can do, all we can do as Christians and as a pastor is go to the scriptures and say, like, okay, what's the standard in scripture? So a couple things. There was a lot mentioned during the memorial about the Lord's Prayer. And I got kicked in the teeth years ago when Douglas Wilson was teaching on the Lord's Prayer and forgiveness, because he unpacked it in a way that I had never. I never quite thought about in that way before. And I have to this very day been moved by that, challenged by that. And I am constantly convicted by that. Sometimes I'm afraid to pray it now. Sometimes I'll be honest, sometimes I'm afraid to pray the prayer right now. And I've even caught myself over the last couple years since Doug gave that sermon. I've caught myself at times avoiding praying that prayer because I want it to be genuine. And so the prayer goes. Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth. As it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who have trespassed against us. And one of the things that Doug brought out about that. That has again kicked me in the teeth is that the prayer goes like this. Jesus says, okay, here's God come down to earth in flesh in front of you. He says, okay, I want you to pray like this. This is when you talk to the Father. I want you to. I want you to say these things, and I want you to mean these things. Father, forgive us our sins. Okay, so that's between God and I. Father, forgive us our sins as we forgive others their sins. And one of the things that Doug said that had such an impact on me, he said that we put that to music. We have it in liturgy. We have it in the King James Version. And so even in, like, liturgy, where the church, like, recites it together, it sounds so beautiful. Beautiful, right? Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespassed against us. He makes the point that we're so used to singing it and saying it in liturgy and that beautiful language that we don't realize that when we say that part of the prayer, we should choke on it. We should choke on it, because what's Jesus saying to do? Pray it like this, father, forgive me my sins as I forgive others their sins. So the way that I forgive people's sins, forgive my sins like that. So, yes, you're coming to God, approaching him for the forgiveness of your own sins. But you're saying in the prayer, it's like a reminder that God, forgive me, like, I forgive others. Like, really let that hang for a second. Because if that doesn't work, you over, I don't know what will. Biblically, because the core issue between God and I is, like, first and foremost, forgiveness and peace with God. And then Jesus is saying, okay, Jeff, pray like this. You pray, God, please forgive me, like, I forgive others. And then you go, wait a second. How do I forgive others? Sometimes, like, I let it lurk in my mind, and I let it hang there. Sometimes I, like, I tuck it away in a little corner, like, yeah, I forgive you. But, you know, I remember it's, like, right there as I'm holding right there, and there's, like a little. A little compartment, a little space for it right there. Like, all the Stuff like, yeah, I've let go, I've forgiven, but I'm holding it here so that if there's another. Another incident, I can go back into that box, unlock it, and go, hey, remember, like. And hold it against you. Like, do I treat people the way that God treats me? Because I know that God forgives me for the inexcusable. There's no excuse whatsoever. There's no defense. He just forgives me. He loves me. He longs to forgive me. He longs to give me mercy and grace. He desires the forgiveness and the reconciled relationship, and he's the one that pursued the wicked one, Me, Me. And so that's how the prayer goes. That forgiveness from God is supposed to be, like, in my own life, practically the way. The way God, like, I treat. Like, I forgive others. I don't want God holding my sins against me. I don't want God holding a grudge against me for my sins. I want that forgiveness where he says, I separate your sins from you as far as the east is from the west. That is a profound divine forgiveness. And Jesus is telling you in the Lord's Prayer, like this, father, forgive me as I forgive others their sins. Again, like Doug said, if that doesn't cause you to choke when you pray it, I just don't know how it doesn't. So fundamentally, forgiveness for us is supposed to be like, God forgives me. So to remember that he forgives the inexcusable, he chases the rebel. He loves the sinner. He desires to let it go and to forgive. And so that's what I thought was so profound about Erica is that man. That's a divine. That's a divine moment for her to want to say at the memorial. I forgive you. To show and display the love of God in that way. You want to say something to that? Oh, no.
- [60:51]
Luke the Bear
I don't know. It sounds like he had a heart attack or something.
- [60:53]
Jeff Durbin
No.
- [60:56]
Luke the Bear
Somebody was saying something in the chat, and I was like, what are you talking about?
- [61:03]
Jeff Durbin
No, what? We are saddened to inform friends that our dear brother Vodi Balcom has left the land of the dying and entered the land of the living. Earlier today, after suffering an emergency medical incident, he entered his rest in the immediate presence of the Savior, whom he loved, trusted, and served since he was converted as a college student. Please pray for Bridget, their children and grandchildren. Oh, dear God. Oh, my goodness.
- [61:50]
Luke the Bear
I was going to say something. I can't remember what we were talking about.
- [62:21]
Jeff Durbin
I don't even know if I could finish the show.
- [62:23]
Luke the Bear
It's Fine. I'll just. I'll say. I remember what I was going to say. While you're thinking about that, the conversation I heard around this forgiveness, which I thought was really good, I heard Cassie and Ellie, Beth talking about. Actually, this is where I think Christians tend to conflate things, you know, where they're conflating forgiveness with justice. And, you know, Erica, which, for the record, because I'm seeing it in the chat, Erica is not Roman Catholic. This has been completely debunked. She was raised Roman Catholic. She converted to Protestantism well before she ever met Charlie. She actually went to Liberty, which I know is not necessarily a. Means you're a Christian, but she's definitely a Protestant, and she's a Christian. She's no longer Roman Catholic. So there were some rumors going around that were untrue about the.
- [63:18]
Jeff Durbin
That.
- [63:20]
Luke the Bear
But she can absolutely forgive this wicked man who killed her husband and still want justice.
- [63:27]
Jeff Durbin
Yes.
- [63:28]
Luke the Bear
And so we as Christians have to be able to think in categories and understand that there is a distinction between forgiveness and justice. It would be unjust. Right. If she. Although there is room for that in the. In God's law. Right. For forgiveness. But God's law would call for, you know, the death penalty for someone like this. And so she can still forgive him, but still want justice to be done. And it's an important distinction that we just needed to make sure we mentioned.
- [64:00]
Jeff Durbin
Yeah. So people are asking in the chat here, where does it say this Founders. And founders would know. We're our good friends over at Founders, Tom and all the guys. Guys. They would definitely know. And so it's. It's not a false report. Founders would 1000% know. A vote. He was actually with them Founders. So that's true. Let's. Let's try to finish the show. I do want to add some thoughts to this. Okay. So I'm gonna say we're gonna have to cancel the after show for today, guys. I'm just not in. I'm not in a good mental space to be able to do the after show. And so if you guys would just give us some mercy on that. We actually had planned to do an after show today, but after hearing this news about Vodi. Yeah, we're not going to be able to do that today. I do want to finish because we're in the show. I want this to be a valuable thing for the church, so I'll do my best to finish this. It's clear when you look at passages like Matthew, chapter 18, about the unforgiving servant, that Read that story, Matthew, chapter 18, starting in verse 21, after Peter asks, how many times do you forgive? And in the famous story about Jesus, you know, 70 times 7. 77 time. Not, I do not say to you 7 times, but 77 times. Jesus then compares the kingdom of heaven to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants. When he began to settle, one was brought to him who owed him 10,000 talents. That's an impossible thing to pay off. And since he could not pay, his master ordered him to be sold with his wife and children, all that he had and payment to be made. So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, have patience with me and I will pay you everything. And out of pity for him, the master of that servant released him and forgave him the debt. Here's the point. Look, the servant is saying, just give me time, I'll pay everything back. Be merciful to me. I'll pay. I'll. I will pay you everything back. So I. It's impossible. But the guy's saying, I'll work it out. I'm going to pay everything back. But the master doesn't even accept that. It's just this overflow of mercy and grace from the king to the servant, that he deserves this whole his life to be just in shambles now. And the king doesn't even ask, okay, let's work on a payment plan. That's important is the king knows he owes this debt he can't repay, and the guy's offering to try to repay it, and the king doesn't accept it. He just says, I just forgive you, and you know the rest of the story. Then that unforgiving servant goes and finds another person who owes him nothing, barely anything. And the person is saying the same thing, like, I'll just give me, I'll pay you everything back. And he just starts to beat him, and everything throws him. He's like, you're pay back everything. And so when the master finds out, it doesn't go well for the unforgiving servant. And so what's that teach us about our forgiveness is that if you truly are a forgiven person, you must forgive the person next to you. I mean, the debt you have with God, that he's forgiven that debt, he forgave it. You can't go to a fellow servant and say, I'm just going to hold this against you forever. If so, you are not a person that should expect forgiveness from God. And so next, Luke nailed it. Erica Kirk, in a biblical worldview can, in her heart Settle the account with the guy in her heart and say, I am releasing this into the hands of God. I am letting you go. But that doesn't mean that God's servant, God's deacon, the magistrate, is to neglect justice for Charlie Kirk and Erica Kirk and the kids. The magistrate has a duty before God to wield the sword of justice, which means Erica can in her heart say, I'm going to release this to God and release this man in my heart. But the magistrate has a duty to kill him. The magistrate has a duty to kill him. Life for life. That's God's standard. There's no way out of it. The magistrate still has to execute justice. But one more thing, and this is very, very important, people often misuse when Jesus says, father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. People misuse the issue of Christians forgiving in their hearts and like, everything's fine now. Now I want to point something out to you that I think should be obvious to all Christians. God doesn't forgive anybody. Nobody is forgiven. Who doesn't come to him in repentance and faith? Nobody. And so God provides the means and the way of forgiveness. God provides that. So in God's heart and God's mind, if you want to say it like that, that God has settled, I'm going to forgive. And here's the payment. All right, so this, this. The ticket is punched for the forgiveness. All right, It's a done deal. But there still has to be a transaction between that sinner and God. They have. They have to come in repentance and faith. And we understand, of course, in Scripture that God is the one who gives that sovereign grace and power to be able to do that. So even the gift to repent and believe is something that God does. God grants repentance, God gifts, faith. But there still has to be a transaction. There has to be a transaction. So is Erica Kirk reconciled to the murderer today? No. In her heart. She settled to release this man to God to in her heart not carry this, to forgive. She's got the transaction ready, right? She's got it set. She's got the capital in her hand, right? It's ready to. It's ready to pay. But there's no reconciliation in a biblical worldview without real reconciliation, the person coming, repenting of sin, confessing sin and those sorts of things. Because I understand people are troubled with. Sometimes people in the Christian world will think like, you just let it go in your heart and it's all, well, just forget about it. It's like well, that's not how forgiveness really works. Forgiveness is prepared in the heart. The transaction is ready to be made. That's all paid for. But there still has to be a person that comes and collects. And so for the murderer of Charlie Kirk, while Erica has in her heart said, I've got this paid for you. I've had it ready to go. In order for there to be real peace and reconciliation, the murderer has to come and confess and repent. That's where the reconciliation part comes in, in terms of a true transaction of forgiveness. And it's the same way with God. What I'm saying is that we can't have a different transaction of forgiveness than God himself has, where we just start saying, like, forgiven, and it's all over and done and everything's fine, there's peace. That's not really true. Because when God, God provides this payment and ready for the transaction, the sinner still has to come and confess and repent. And that's clear in even Jesus parables where you've got the. The person who's pounding his chest saying, God, be merciful to me, a sinner. That guy goes to his house justified, not the Pharisee who thought he was all well with God, right? There still has to be the transaction. And so it's a beautiful thing to see that God has given Erica Kirk that ability to hold that in her heart and to have that kind of divine grace and mercy for a murderer like that. All right, well, God is good. God is still on his throne. Praise the Lord. I want to encourage everybody, if you would go to apologiastudios.com apologiesstudios.com you guys can get all these amazing tracts you can hand out to share the gospel with people, the gospel with Mormons. We have tracks to go out to the abortion mill to save babies. I want to encourage everybody also to go to future of christendom.org future of christendom.org I'm doing the conference there, there in Pennsylvania in just a matter of short two weeks. Yeah, two weeks from today. Future of Christendom. Go check them out. Futureofchristendom.org I think they're actually maybe sold out.
- [71:39]
Luke the Bear
That's what we had heard, but go.
- [71:40]
Jeff Durbin
Check it out anyways. Also, great website. Lots of good resources there with those guys. And also everyone, don't forget to check out Dominion Wealth. Solid dudes there. They'll help you with thinking about wealth and, and, and the future and your finances and storing up wealth for your grandchildren. A righteous person does that. According to the Proverbs. And Luke, kick it over to the amtac.
- [72:01]
Luke the Bear
We actually did the AMTAC ad earlier, but I will. I want to mention Heritage Defense, which you were just talking to Bradley, weren't you? Are just people at least.
- [72:08]
Jeff Durbin
Yeah.
- [72:09]
Luke the Bear
So they got that debate coming up very, very soon with Bradley Pierce against Doug and Toby, right?
- [72:16]
Jeff Durbin
Yeah. So I'm debating Doug Wilson and Toby Sumter are brothers in Moscow, Idaho with Bradley Pierce. We are debating on the issue of abolition. It's Moscow, Idaho, on the 24th of October, coming up very soon. Get tickets for that, everybody. There are still tickets available. And come meet us in Moscow for that.
- [72:35]
Luke the Bear
Yeah, so I was supposed to be reading an ad for Heritage. Totally lost track. But Bradley also runs Heritage Defense or one of two people that runs it. And so if you homeschool your children, please sign up with Heritage Defense. You can go to heritagedefense.org put apology in the coupon code and get your first month free. It's an awesome resource, very affordable. And of course, we just want to point you to shop.apacheStudios.com where we get our tracks and swag and coffee and some great stuff. I think that's it.
- [73:07]
Jeff Durbin
All right, guys, thank you so much for your blessings, your love, your prayers, your support for this ministry. Grateful for all of you. Everyone go sign up for All Apology at All access. We have some good stuff coming really soon in the future, guys. Yes, the app is actually almost out. I know I've been saying that.
- [73:24]
Luke the Bear
I was testing it yesterday.
- [73:26]
Jeff Durbin
What we're trying to do right now is we're trying to break it. We're trying to see if we can break the app so that it's working well for everybody. And so the app is done. We're just trying to mess it up and to see if it's all good to go and functional before we release it to you. All apologia. All access. Sign up, guys, be a part of this ministry. God is doing tremendous things all over the world. We get to meet people who have come to Christ because of this ministry all the time. And it's such a gift to know that God is using your labor and support with us to transform the world for the gospel. And so apologia. All access@apacheStudios.com don't forget to go to EndabortionNow.com sign up there to save babies with your church. Sign up there to help us to with a legislative fight to get the bills of abolition in. We have some good stuff coming Georgia is still a go. Excited about that very, very, very good opportunity in Georgia. And there's other states being worked on right now, too. We need you to support us us financially and with your feet on the ground when we get there. I'm going to be letting you know about Georgia really soon, by the way, you can meet me in Georgia and we can work together to get this bill to actually pass. We have about 25% of the house led House legislature on support and sponsoring this very bill of abolition. That is that itself is historic. Right there is historic. We haven't had that in any state yet. And so it's powerful. And so. Endabortionnow.com Sign up. Love you all. Thank you for watching. That's the bear.
- [74:42]
Luke the Bear
Peace out.
- [74:42]
Jeff Durbin
I'm the ninja. We'll catch you next week.