Apologia Radio Ep. 555: Jeff Durbin vs. Gay "Pastor's" Arguments
Air Date: January 19, 2026
Host: Pastor Jeff Durbin (Apologia Radio)
Main Focus: Examining "Gay Pastor" Brandon Robertson’s arguments for abortion—particularly as they relate to Christian theology, biblical authority, and church history—while responding with biblical and scientific rebuttals.
Episode Overview
In this special broadcast, Pastor Jeff Durbin revisits arguments from progressive "gay pastor" Brandon Robertson, focusing especially on Robertson's position in favor of abortion and his claims that such positions are consistent with the Christian faith. Using excerpts from Robertson's conversation with Michael Knowles, Durbin systematically critiques and rebuts these arguments from biblical, historical, scientific, and logical perspectives. This is all set in the context of Apologia’s ongoing advocacy for abortion abolition and equal protection for the unborn in the United States.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Robertson's Relativistic Approach to Scripture and Truth (01:36–05:29)
- Durbin highlights Robertson’s lack of respect for scriptural authority, noting repeated examples where Robertson dismisses or relativizes clear biblical teaching (e.g., calling some of Paul’s statements just "opinions" and even labeling Jesus’ actions as racist in certain stories).
- Durbin’s Standpoint: True Christian knowledge, especially on vital ethical matters like abortion, must be rooted in the revealed Word of God.
- Quote:
- Durbin (05:03): “You’ve given up truth.”
- Robertson (05:29): “Please repent of your false gospel.”
- Durbin: “Okay. All right. Thanks, Brandon.”
2. Early Christian and Historical Consensus on Abortion (08:23–14:43)
- Claim Debunked: Robertson claims diversity of thought among early Christians (e.g., citing Augustine, Aquinas) concerning when life begins.
- Durbin’s Response:
- Cites the Didache, the Letter of Barnabas, the Apocalypse of Peter, and writings of Basil the Great and Athenagoras—all condemning abortion as murder, regardless of philosophical debates over "ensoulment."
- Emphasizes the consistent and early Christian stance against abortion and infanticide, referencing Christian efforts to rescue abandoned infants in the ancient world.
- Notable Quote:
- Didache: "You shall not procure an abortion, nor destroy a newborn child.”
- Durbin: “From the earliest stages of the Christian church...the word for abortion for the Christian church is murder.”
3. The Word of God as the Standard of Truth (15:00–24:46)
- Durbin invokes John 17:17 (“Thy word is truth”) to argue that all theological and ethical matters—including abortion—must be decided by Scripture, not by church fathers or personal feeling.
- Robertson’s Approach Critiqued:
- Durbin points out that Robertson relies on a "fuzzy," relativistic epistemology, appealing to gray areas when it suits his agenda.
- Analogy: Building construction must follow a true "plumb line"—so too must Christian ethics follow biblical revelation.
- Quote:
- Durbin (15:00): “Brandon Robertson...doesn’t really believe that God can communicate so effectively and clearly on his own that he can be just straightforward, understood.”
4. Scientific Reality of Life at Conception (24:46–27:55)
- Robertson's Claim: Life does not begin at conception; it is only “potential life.”
- Durbin’s Rebuttal:
- Affirms a unanimous scientific consensus: Life begins at conception, biologically and genetically unique as a human being.
- Calls Robertson’s statements “embarrassing” and “hundreds of years behind.”
- Quote:
- Durbin (25:03): “His perspective...not human life, not life. It's potential human life. That is one of the most ignorant things for someone to say in this century.”
5. Robertson on the History of Christian Opposition to Abortion (31:14–32:07)
- Robertson’s Claim: Opposition to abortion is a "relatively recent" conservative Christian movement.
- Durbin’s Response:
- Points to detailed examples of Christian opposition from the early church to recent U.S. history (e.g., clergy fighting abortifacient industries, roots of the New York Times).
- Calls Robertson’s understanding “absolute nonsense” and “hogwash.”
- Quote:
- Durbin (31:25): "It is absolute nonsense that it's relatively new that we see conservative Christians fighting against...abortion."
6. The Issue of "When Life Begins"—Theological and Scientific Confusion (33:37–38:37)
- Michael Knowles clarifies: Historical philosophical confusion (like Aquinas’s “delayed ensoulment”) was based on pre-modern biology, not theological license for abortion.
- Durbin underscores:
- Modern genetics fully aligns with the biblical view—life begins at conception.
- Aquinas’ error was due to “faulty understanding of how gestation works,” not because he would have supported abortion knowing today’s science.
- Quote:
- Knowles (37:40): “The new human person with the full independent genome and the principles of life...they all begin at conception.”
7. Examining Edge Case Arguments: Life of the Mother, Rape, Incest (38:15–48:33)
- Robertson: Advocates abortion exceptions for life of the mother, rape, incest.
- Durbin’s Response:
- Real medical practice always seeks to save both patients (mother and child). Abortion is not the treatment; emergency delivery is.
- On rape/incest: Justice is to punish the perpetrator, not the innocent child; death penalty for children is not applied for crimes of the father.
- Support victims, but reject the notion of killing the unborn as a remedy.
- Quote:
- Durbin (44:24): “We should not say...let’s give the death penalty to the child...We should say let’s pursue justice and the death penalty for rapists...Let’s surround mother and baby who are both victims here with our love and protection and support.”
8. Debunking the "No One is Pro-Abortion" Argument (48:33–50:31)
- Robertson: Suggests people aren’t truly “pro abortion,” just pro-choice in tough situations.
- Durbin: Counters with real-life examples of women boasting about their abortions, activism (“shout your abortion”), and the inconsistency of treating abortion differently than removing a wart or mole.
- Quote:
- Durbin (50:31): “In what other instance in healthcare do you talk like that?...The only reason people talk like that...they can’t avoid it. You can’t get away from it. That’s an image bearer of God. They know what’s there.”
9. Robertson’s Relativism vs. Christian/Biblical Authority (58:45–63:19)
- Robertson: Consistently returns to “gray areas,” claiming we cannot know when life truly begins, so we shouldn’t criminalize abortion—even late-term.
- Michael Knowles presses: If it’s truly “murky,” shouldn’t we err on the side of caution (i.e., not kill)?
- Durbin: Points out the epistemological root—Robertson’s worldview deliberately ignores both scientific and biblical clarity when it comes to embryonic life.
- On late-term abortion:
- Despite ethical clarity, Robertson refuses to support criminalizing even late-term abortion.
- Durbin underscores that real doctors do not kill late-term babies for the mother’s health—they deliver the baby.
- Quote:
- Knowles (59:02): “Should we err on the side of doing abortions or not doing abortions?”
- Robertson (59:29): “I agree with you that we should err on the side of caution...”
Notable Quotes with Timestamps
- On the authority of Scripture vs. relativism:
- Durbin (15:00): “Brandon Robertson doesn't really believe that God can communicate so effectively and clearly on his own...”
- On scientific consensus:
- Durbin (25:03): “His perspective that it’s...not human life, not life. It’s potential human life. That is one of the most ignorant things for someone to say in this century.”
- On historical Christian stance:
- Didache (cited by Durbin): "You shall not procure an abortion, nor destroy a newborn child.”
- Durbin (31:25): "It is absolute nonsense that it's relatively new that we see conservative Christians fighting against the issue of abortion."
- On “gray area” arguments:
- Knowles (59:02): “Should we err on the side of doing abortions or not doing abortions?”
- Robertson (59:29): “I agree with you that we should err on the side of caution...”
- Durbin (63:19): “Doctors don’t do that...They remove the baby...Induce labor or C-section...They don’t go, ‘Let’s kill those babies.’”
Important Timestamps
- 01:15–05:34: Durbin introduces the issue, quotes from past discussion with Brandon Robertson
- 08:23–14:43: Early church and historic Christian consensus on abortion
- 15:00–24:46: Biblical authority and epistemology; analogy of construction and “plumb line”
- 24:46–27:55: Scientific reality of life at conception and critique of Robertson’s statements
- 31:14–32:07: Historical opposition to abortion—not a recent development
- 33:37–38:37: History, theology (Aquinas), and modern scientific clarity on life
- 38:15–48:33: Addressing “life of the mother,” rape, and incest arguments
- 48:33–50:31: Debunking the claim that “no one is pro-abortion”
- 58:45–63:19: Final confrontation: relativism, murkiness, and late-term abortion
Memorable Moments
-
Durbin’s passionate refutation of “gray area” ethics:
He repeatedly drives home the point that both science and Scripture provide clarity—and that moral “murkiness” is often a cloak for justifying sin. -
Historical parade of early Christian writings:
Durbin’s catalog of sources shows robust, ancient condemnation of abortion, countering the myth that opposition is modern or “political.” -
Practical medical explanation:
Durbin draws from the testimony of emergency physicians, explaining how real-life “life of the mother” scenarios are handled by seeking to save both patients rather than killing the baby.
Conclusion
Pastor Jeff Durbin’s episode is a sustained, detail-oriented critique of Brandon Robertson’s pro-abortion theology and broader relativistic approach to Christian teaching. By rooting his rebuttals in history, Scripture, practical medicine, and science, Durbin maintains that the pro-life, abolitionist position is not only biblically mandated but rational and compassionate. The podcast ends with Durbin’s open call for Robertson to engage in further public debate, and with renewed appeals for listeners to support the abolitionist cause.
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