558. Breaking News: Corruption and Deception Exposed

Summary

Apologia Radio Episode 558: "Breaking News: Corruption and Deception Exposed"

Date: February 6, 2026
Host: Jeff Durbin
Guest: Bradley Pierce (Foundation to Abolish Abortion)
Special Guest Testimony: Abby Johnson
Episode Focus: Exposing opposition—namely, by established pro-life organizations—to abolitionist equal protection/anti-abortion legislation in South Dakota.

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Overview

This impactful episode dives deep into the often unseen conflict within the pro-life movement, exposing how pro-life establishment organizations actively oppose legislative attempts to fully criminalize and abolish abortion. Host Jeff Durbin and attorney Bradley Pierce provide first-hand accounts from the South Dakota State House’s hearing on House Bill 1212, highlighting the ways even pro-life leaders obstruct “equal protection” legislation for the unborn. The episode features key testimonies, including that of abortion survivor and activist Abby Johnson, and confronts the theological, legal, and cultural contradictions at the heart of the pro-life establishment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. The Underlying Theme: In-House Opposition to Abolition

• Pro-Life Industry as the Greatest Obstacle:
  Jeff frames the central narrative: “The greatest enemy to the end and the abolition, the criminalization of abortion in these United States is the pro-life industry, the pro-life establishment.” (08:00)

  • The episode’s main claim is that it is not the pro-choice movement but entrenched pro-life organizations who most robustly block abolition bills.

• The Shift in Language and Courage:
  Durbin points out the growth of uncompromising Christian language in legislative debates ("murder," "justice," "God’s law").

  • "That word murder is used throughout this hearing and it is used freely and it is used with so much confidence. That in itself is a dramatic change." (37:15)

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2. South Dakota's Equal Protection Bill (HB 1212)

• Description of the Bill:
  HB 1212 sought to remove exemptions that protect women from prosecution for self-managed abortions, granting unborn children equal constitutional protection from homicide and assault.

• Legislative Context:
  Although South Dakota enacted a "trigger law" post-Roe, self-administered abortion remains immune from prosecution, leading to an increase in abortions via mail-order pills.

  • "A total of 768 south Dakota babies were murdered by abortion ... 308 abortions happened right here on South Dakota soil as self-induced abortions." (18:38 – Representative Randolph)

• Bill Killed in Committee:
  Despite early supportive vote counts, last-minute lobbying by pro-life organizations flipped the outcome.

  • “We had counted the votes ... the votes were there ... But then, as we've seen before, the pro life establishment did what they do and came out with full force against it.” (08:37 – Bradley Pierce)

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3. The Theological Divide: Victimhood and Protected Classes

• Establishment’s Doctrinal Position:
  Pro-life organizations teach that women procuring abortions are not culpable but are themselves victims. This doctrine is described as an anti-biblical innovation.
  • “What's in the womb is human life ... but ... women who willfully ... take the lives of their children in the womb are themselves victims like their children.” (13:52 – Jeff Durbin)
  • This “confession of faith” protects women from prosecution, creating a “protected class of killers” in law.
• Abolitionist Response:
  The biblical and Christian historical position is that abortion is murder, and all parties (including mothers) are morally and legally responsible.

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4. Notable Quotes & Testimonies

• Representative Randolph’s Opening Statement (Proponent):

  • "Abortion rates have increased. And that is precisely why HB 1212 is essential. This bill is not about punishment. It is about protection.” (19:20)
  • He directly rebuts “coercion” arguments by explaining only equal protection ends coercion and victimization.

• Abby Johnson’s Testimony (Proponent):

  • "[The Catechism] says that abortion is murder ... The law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child's rights." (27:54)
  • Johnson addresses the inconsistency of Catholic leaders opposing criminal penalties for abortion, evidencing doctrinal betrayal.
  • "The most compassionate thing that you can do for women is to place a legal barrier in order for us not to kill our children." (30:40)

• Bradley Pierce, Foundation to Abolish Abortion (Proponent):

  • "You cannot abolish abortion without making it illegal for anyone, including the mother, to murder a preborn child." (47:38)
  • "If you keep it legal for women to abort their child, you're also keeping it legal for men and abusers and others to pressure them."
  • Detailed 8-point summary tying justice, law, scripture, and civil responsibility together. (48:40)

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5. Pro-Life Establishment Arguments (Opposition)

• National and State Right to Life Lobbyists:

  • "We have also consistently opposed policies that would criminally punish women ..." (54:03)
  • Directly admit opposition to legal ramifications for women who self-abort, reinforcing Durbin and Pierce’s assertions.

• Pregnancy Resource Center Testimony:

  • "We offer non-judgmental support no matter their pregnancy decision ... If women fear judgment or prosecution, they will never step through our doors." (66:15 – Jenna Cross)
  • Arguments centered on compassion, potential reduction in PRC services, and fear of criminalization preventing women from seeking help.

• Analysis of This Rhetoric:

  • Durbin and Pierce critique the logic, calling the idea that criminalization would harm PRCs a “fallacious form of reasoning” and contrary to approaches with other crimes.
  • “If you want coercion to stop, you have to provide equal protection for the child in the womb.” (22:25 – Jeff Durbin)

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6. Gospel and Justice Intertwined

• Misuse of “Grace” Rhetoric:
  Opponents claim that equal protection laws threaten the grace of Jesus; hosts rebut that the law provides civil justice, grace is extended through the Gospel, and that law restrains sin without extinguishing the offer of salvation.
  • “HB 1212 is a threat to the grace that Jesus Christ extended to all of us on the cross.” (72:59 – Jenna Cross)
  • “Does that mean we want to actually take theft off the books and decriminalize theft?...Are we really that muddy in our thinking?” (73:25 – Jeff Durbin)
• Micah 6:8 – Love Mercy, Do Justice:
  “We are to love mercy, but what does he require us to do? To do justice. … That’s what these legislators ... have been appointed to do.” (77:26 – Bradley Pierce)

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7. Who Really Stopped the Bill?

• Pro-Life Leaders, Not Pro-Choice Activists:

  • "It's not Planned Parenthood and the pro aborts ... sitting next to us in opposition … is the pro life leaders and establishment. That's who's killing these bills." (63:09 – Jeff Durbin)

• Grassroots Christians vs. Establishment Elites:

  • Despite establishment claims that “90% of the pro-life movement” oppose the bill, actual constituent contacts to legislators were overwhelmingly in favor.
    • “560 of those pieces of communication were for this bill ... The grassroots individual mom and pop Christians ... support this.” (93:39 – Bradley Pierce)

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Memorable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

• “The greatest enemy to the end and the abolition, the criminalization of abortion in these United States is the pro-life industry.”
  – Jeff Durbin (08:00)

• Abby Johnson on Catholic Bishops:

  • “It’s crazy to me that the Catholic Church would deny equal protection of the unborn, particularly because the Catechism ... says abortion is murder.” (28:04)

• On Creating a Protected Class:
  “They believe that women, by law, ought to be protected, a protected class to do this act ... to do this without any penalty.”
  – Jeff Durbin (14:35)

• On Non-Judgment in PRCs:
  “We offer non-judgmental support no matter their pregnancy decision.”
  – Jenna Cross (66:16)

  • “What value is your pregnancy center if you’re giving non-judgmental support?”
    – Jeff Durbin (66:52)

• Biblical Justice Summed Up:
  “Murdering anyone should be illegal for everyone.”
  – Jeff Durbin, repeated theme throughout (cf. 22:46, 36:56, 94:47)

• Exposure to Legislators and Listeners:
  “You are a dying breed. Because at a certain point, the Christian church, the lights come on and we say, oh, no, this is an atrocity. Oh, no, this is darkness. Oh, no, this is evil. And we’re going to shine light on it.”
  – Jeff Durbin (57:44)

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Critical Timestamps for Major Segments

• Legislative Context & Bill Background:
  07:30–11:00

• Theological and Historical Divide over Culpability:
  13:50–15:09

• Proponent Testimony Starts (Randolph):
  17:47

• Abby Johnson Testimony:
  26:17–31:27

• Bradley Pierce’s Key Testimony:
  47:10–51:27

• Opposing Testimony Begins (South Dakota Right to Life):
  54:03

• Pregnancy Resource Center Arguments (Jenna Cross):
  66:15–72:59

• Closing Reflections and Additional Testimony:
  85:52–93:37

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Conclusion & Call to Action

The episode closes urging listeners to:

• Share the episode and expose the obstructionism of national and state pro-life organizations.
• Support abolitionist efforts—both financially and in lobbying—for equal protection legislation.
• Recognize that, as the pro-life “establishment” continues to show its cards in public forums, now is the time for faithful Christians and legislators to press forward for justice in the name of God’s law and the Gospel.

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Summary Table: Key Testimonies

| Speaker | Position | Key Quote / Argument | Timestamp | |----------------------------|--------------------|------------------------------------------------------|------------| | Rep. Randolph | Proponent | “This bill is not about punishment. It’s about protection.” | 19:20 | | Abby Johnson | Proponent | “The law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child’s rights.” | 28:30 | | Bradley Pierce | Proponent (Attorney)| “You cannot abolish abortion without making it illegal for anyone, including the mother, to murder a preborn child.” | 47:38 | | Dale Barcher (SD RTL) | Opponent | “We have ... consistently opposed policies that would criminally punish women ...” | 54:03 | | Jenna Cross (PRC) | Opponent | “We offer non-judgmental support no matter their pregnancy decision.” | 66:16 | | Leah Anderson (Post-abortive testimony) | Opponent/Opposer of Bill | “The consequence of this bill will leave many women in their life of guilt and shame ...” | 88:56 |

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Tone and Style

• Driven, passionate, and theological; Jeff and Bradley use direct, biblically-infused language (“murder,” “justice,” “abomination”).
• Emotional yet precise; the episode balances righteous indignation with personal testimonies of change and hope.
• Unashamedly calling out “corruption and deception”—leaving listeners with a sense of urgency and duty in the battle for the unborn.

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For anyone seeking clarity on why abolitionist and mainstream pro-life organizations are often at odds—and who is truly fighting to end abortion in law—this episode is essential listening.

Transcript

[Bradley Pierce]

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[Jeff Durbin]

It's a hundred small ones.

[Bradley Pierce]

A retirement account from a job five years ago.

[Jeff Durbin]

A budget that lives in your head.

[Bradley Pierce]

But never on paper.

[Jeff Durbin]

Life insurance that you meant to look into. A will half finished or not even started.

[Bradley Pierce]

And the longer you leave those loose ends untied, the harder it becomes to move forward with peace of mind. At Dominion wealth, we walk with you step by step to help you tie it all together. We meet you where you are.

[Jeff Durbin]

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[Bradley Pierce]

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[Jeff Durbin]

Your head and into practice.

[Bradley Pierce]

Then we build a strategy to meet your needs. Now, prepare for your future and bless the next generation. We don't pressure you. We give biblical, honest guidance. Let the strategy follow your values and.

[Jeff Durbin]

Help find the right solutions.

[Bradley Pierce]

If your financial path feels uncertain, let's get together one on one and get.

[Jeff Durbin]

You on the right track.

[Bradley Pierce]

Book a free consultation today. We are here to help you get your finances in order so you can feel confident about the future. From baptism to burial. Dominion's got you covered. You can find us at Reform Money.

[Jeff Durbin]

I would say if the authorities didn't.

[Bradley Pierce]

Want us involved in the public square, they ought not to have crucified Jesus in the public square.

[Jeff Durbin]

Use humanistic principles. Same idea, same end, I would say. What's the problem with stardust bumping into stardust in the cosmic picture? No, there's no problem in the cosmic picture.

[Bradley Pierce]

It won't matter. No, Mr. President, you are not protecting reproductive freedom. You are authorizing the destruction of freedom for one million little human beings every year.

[Jeff Durbin]

I'm sorry, my friends, but I am tired to seeing Jesus presented as a weak beggar. He is a powerful savior. And the Gospel is not a suggestion.

[Bradley Pierce]

It is a command. Reverend Mola, don't you sympathize with that?

[Jeff Durbin]

I sympathize with every single human heart.

[Bradley Pierce]

Wishing to know the one true and living God.

[Jeff Durbin]

But I believe there's only one way.

[Bradley Pierce]

That that can happen.

[Jeff Durbin]

Through Jesus Christ. And the Gospel is about repenting of.

[Bradley Pierce]

Sin, not celebrating it.

[Representative Randolph]

Right now you're on the threshold of an amazing adventure.

[Jeff Durbin]

We will explore this spiritual abyss.

[Representative Randolph]

You have not experienced this before. You're gonna love it.

[Jeff Durbin]

And the rest shall hear and fear and shall never again commit any such evil among you. Your eye shall not pity. It should be life for life. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. That's Deuteronomy, chapter 19, everybody, 20 through 21. Welcome back to another episode of Apologia Radio. Powerful section of scripture right there. A word to the judges of Israel and really to the people of God in terms of how you're supposed to face down injustice and how you addressed evil in your midst. Powerful section of scripture, the word of God is so relevant for every era of our lives, especially for what's taking place at the legislature. Preachers across the country. I'm Jeff the Coleman and into this Apologia Radio. You get more at apologiastudios.com that's a P O L O G iastudios.com Go there, get the past episodes of Apologia Radio. Get everything over there, everybody. Get all of the past episodes. Get the full episodes of Collision. Get all of the academy, everything at all [e-mail] we can't do what we do without you guys standing with us. Big thank you to everybody who's a part of this ministry with us. We just can't do this ministry without you. And God is impacting people out of all over the world. It is truly, truly a blessing. Just got back from Chicago late last night and I was able to meet with pastors from across the state of Illinois for the bill we have right now of equal protection in the state of Illinois. First bill of equal protection and abolition in the state of Illinois. Senator Neil Anderson about to drop the bill. Get a bill number. I'll be updating you all on that very, very soon. We'll be doing a press conference hopefully here in the next couple of days or week or so. And so all of that is happening. And was able to hear from so many people just in the state of Illinois about how the ministry of Apologia Studios and in abortion now is blessing their lives and people just being impacted globally by it. So humbled to be a part of this ministry. Very important episode. We're going to jump right into it today. So some of you guys may have heard that we have two bills of abolition and equal protection running in the House and and the Senate in the state of South Dakota. This morning there was a hearing for the bill that is in the House. I have joining me on the program today, somebody know very well. He's one of my heroes. He is our attorney. He is Bradley Pierce with foundation to abolish Abortion. And Bradley Pierce and the team were able to fly out yesterday to South Dakota. He told me they got there at about midnight last night and the hearing was early, early this morning. And so we're going to have Bradley come on and we are going to show you, we're going to Demonstrate to you with witness and testimony everything we've been telling you about all these years. Before I bring Bradley on, I'm going to say the statement that we've all been saying for many years. The greatest opponent, the greatest enemy, and this is not an exaggeration, this is not me being hyperbolic. The greatest enemy to the end and the abolition, the criminalization of abortion in these United States is the pro life industry, the pro life establishment. The greatest enemy to the end of abortion in this nation is the pro life establishment. And we are going to demonstrate it to you. We've done it by way of documentaries. We have the Fatal Flaw after the program today. Go read, go look up apologia Fatal flaw. You've seen a documentary, documentary we did on that and today's gonna be more evidence. Hours ago, just hours ago, the House of Representatives in the state of South Dakota had the opportunity to provide equal protection, equal justice to all human beings in the womb from fertilization. They had the opportunity to do so, to let it pass the hearing and go to the floor for a vote. And they didn't do it. The bill was killed and the bill was killed by the pro life establishment leaders. We've seen this again and again and again. Now, Bradley Pierce, I want to thank you and honor you, brother, for all the sacrifices that I've seen you do, you've done with us. And also for the sacrifice of getting to South Dakota super late, getting almost no sleep, and then getting up to defend the rights of these preborn children and then joining us on the radio program today. Brother, you honor me, you honor us with your presence today. So, Bradley Pierce, welcome to the program, brother.

[Bradley Pierce]

Hey, thank you. It's an honor to be with you. You were just in Chicago yesterday. So we've all been running around.

[Jeff Durbin]

That's right, last night. And we got more to do this month. It's just non stop sessions open. We have bills happening across the country and so it's busy, busy for us. So tell everybody, Bradley, if you would, about what is happening in South Dakota. Just give them sort of a bird's eye view. And what happens in getting the hearing today and then getting to this morning Update everyone, bring everyone into the conversation and we're going to let everyone see with their own eyes.

[Bradley Pierce]

Yeah. So just to clear one thing up, so there's technically not two bills, there's just, just the bill in the House. So the way that it works is that in most states, you know, if you have a House bill, only House members can sign on to it right then when it gets into the Senate, Senate senators can sign on. But, but in here in South Dakota, you can go ahead and have senators signing on to your legislation. Excuse me, have, have, have them signing onto your legislation even before it gets over to the Senate. So that's one that you'll see senators names like on the bill, but it's not over in the Senate, but.

[Jeff Durbin]

Gotcha. Gotcha. That was explaining me wrong. Thank you for that correction.

[Bradley Pierce]

Yeah, no problem. So the bill was assigned to the health committee of the South Dakota House. It was just filed last week and it went to the health committee today. And if it had passed the committee today, then it would have actually gone to the floor tomorrow for a vote by the whole House of Representatives in South Dakota. So it was a big moment here and we were, we had counted the votes and there were people that we talked to just a few days ago and even as recent as yesterday that were saying, yes, I'm supporting this, and the votes were there to get this passed. But then as we've seen before, as you and I have seen before and many others have seen, the pro life establishment did what they do and came out with full force against it.

[Jeff Durbin]

You're right, Bradley, and everyone needs to know this. We've told some of you before, but I imagine some of you are new to this conversation and probably right now going with squinty eyes. I don't understand what is happening. You guys have got to have tin foil hats on right now to be saying what you're saying. Bring you into what took place years ago in a couple of years ago in the state of Louisiana, we were able to get a bill into the state of Louisiana. Danny McCormick, courageous legislator, put that bill in and Brian Gunter, Pastor Brian Gunter, was on the ground there in Louisiana. We worked together to get that bill in. And we got the bill in and went through the hearing. And it actually, unlike South Dakota today, this morning, it actually passed the hearing 7 to 2. Pastor Brian polled the legislators the week before the House vote on the floor and we had a way more, far more than we needed yeses to pass it from the House. We even had. Pastor Brian was just saying this in Chicago, Bradley, that we even had so many votes it would have disallowed the Louisiana governor from vetoing was a super amazing numbers. To actually pass that through and undo anybody able to shut. And so we had all of those votes. And then that week before the hearing, we're preparing to fly out to be there for the floor vote. The establishment came in Louisiana Right to Life, National Right to Life. Speaker of the House Mike Johnson specifically worked and targeted the legislators in the state of Louisiana and told them, do not pass this bill. Well, you might be asking what was in the bill. Okay, it was a simple bill. And the bill simply said that what's in the womb is in the image of God. And what's in the womb deserves equal protection under the law from fertilization. The bill said what all of these pro life legislators campaign on, that what's in the womb is human from fertilization. It is worthy of protection. There's the sanctity of human life, all of that. The bill simply stated what they campaign on and raise money for. And speaker of the House Mike Johnson and all these organizations came in and they told the legislators, do not vote yes on this bill. So we went from having a bill that was going to pass the floor overwhelmingly to the degree that the governor wouldn't have been able to even shut it down had he wanted to. We had those yeses that we needed. And it was the establishment that came in and killed that bill. And why you need to know. And Brad, I'd like you to speak to this. Why? Here's the issue. It is doctrinal, it is creedal. It is their faith, their profession. It is a confession of faith of the pro life establishment. And that confession of faith goes something like this. What's in the womb is human fertilization. What's in the womb is human life without question. Incontrovertibly, all human life begins a fertilization. All human life deserves to be protected. That's what they state at the beginning of their confession. But further down in their confession, you will find another statement, and that is that women who willfully, with malice aforethought, take the lives of their children in the womb are themselves victims like their children. Now, you really need to take that in. Think about what's being said there. The women who willfully and with malice aforethought take the lives of their children in the womb are victims themselves. And they believe. Kristin Hawkins believes this. Those establishment types all believe this. That women ought to, morally ought to be able to. To take the lives of their children in the womb with impunity and legal immunity. They believe that, yes, there are some people who should be criminalized for engaging in the enterprise, in the act of abortion, the abortion doctor, those who assist there at the clinics, they believe that, but they believe that women by law ought to be protected, a protected class to do this act, do it Yourself, abortions, all these things. To do this without any penalty. Without any penalty. They believe that we should close our eyes to justice and that we should pity. Pity. Not the baby. Not the baby. We should pity the woman who is engaging in this act. This is a doctrinal issue. It is something that the whole history of the Christian Church militates against. From the Didache, one of the earliest writings in the Christian church onward. The Christian church has always called abortion murder. The Christian Church has always seen everybody who's involved in it as guilty and culpable. However, today we have Catholic bishops going against their own catechism, Catholic bishops going against the catechism of the Catholic Church, Catholic bishops going against the fathers in church history and protecting abortion for the sake of women in the state of South Dakota. We're going to prove it to you today. You're going to see it with your own eyes and hear it with your own ears. Bradley, can you speak to that issue?

[Bradley Pierce]

That's what we saw today. We saw organization after organization after pro life leader come up and oppose this bill. And we've been seeing it online for the last week. But then we saw it in this hearing. We saw South Dakota Right to Life. We saw Concerned Women of America. We saw a South Dakota family organization called Family Voice. We saw the Catholic bishops all coming up and saying that this, this should not apply. We should not have equal protection. Women should not be held accountable for murdering their own child. That's my words, not theirs. But, but because the woman is the victim, is a victim in aborting their own child. And that's the argument that we heard over and over and over again today.

[Jeff Durbin]

Let's get right into it, brother. Thank you for your faithfulness. Bradley. I can't, I can't tell you just how grateful I am when I, when I, when I found out that you were going to be there. Because I heard yesterday that there's a hearing and I'm literally at the airport. I'm at the airport and I'm like contemplating, do I fly to South Dakota? Do I cancel all this and go to South Dakota? I don't know what to do. And then I found out that, you know, we had people on it and that, that you were going to be there. And so when I, when I saw that, I was like, oh, praise God. I'm so grateful. And I just cannot, I cann tell you how absolutely thrilled I was and grateful to God at the opening statements, which I'm going to actually play for everybody right now. We're going to do the opening statements and go right from that to the establishment coming in to kill the bill. And so I just need you to hear it because it is. Listen, here's why I'm doing it this way, not just jumping right into their opposition. You need to see the advancement that God is doing here. We went from a single legislator against the world years ago, Joseph Silk, the first person to do this standing on his own contra mundum against the world, to now we have legislators in the hearing arguing for our bill and defending the bill. You have such great solid argumentation coming forth in the hearing refuting their arguments ahead of time. Right. That they can't even rebut. And it is just great. So while it of course is heartbreaking to see this massive injustice against children in the state of South Dakota, it is also so encouraging to see what God is doing. That mustard seed is becoming a tree. You better believe that. And so in order to see that, I need you to see these opening testimonies. Here you go. All right, we'll jump right into it. House Bill 1212, revised provisions in order to strengthen protections for unborn children. Proponent testimony, Representative Randolph thank you, Mr.

[Representative Randolph]

Chair, members of the committee, pardon my voice. I will get right into it. I'm not normally a speech reader, but for the sake of time, I'm going to do that today. Mr. Chair, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to present HB 1212. This bill would protect every pre born child from abortion in South Dakota by giving them constitutional protections from homicide and assault, that they deserve equal protection under the law. It is now been three and a half years since the United States Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade and our state's trigger law went into effect. Many of us hoped that that moment would usher in a new era of life in South Dakota. That fewer children would be lost, fewer mothers would be harmed and fewer families would carry the weight of abortion. Sadly, that has not happened. The rate at which South Dakota babies are being aborted has not declined. In fact, more. South Dakota abortion clinic. Excuse me, I just lost my place here. Okay. The rate in which South Dakota babies are being aborted has not declined. In fact, more South Dakota babies are being aborted now than prior to the implementation of our pro life laws. The numbers tell a sobering story. In 2021, before our trigger law went into effect, an estimated 657 South Dakota babies were aborted. 175 of those abortions took place at abortion clinics here in South Dakota, while another 482south Dakota babies were killed outside of the clinic or in clinics outside of the state. Fast forward to 2024. While our Pro life laws were fully in effect, a total of 768south Dakota babies were murdered by abortion. That is not a small increase. That is a 17% increase of abortions in South Dakota babies after our pro life laws went into effect. Of those 768 children, 460 were killed out of state beyond our jurisdiction of this bill. About 308 abortions happened right here on South Dakota soil as self induced abortions. Situations in which mothers ordered abortion pills from out of state and perform their own abortions at home using the pill. Self induced abortions have spiked because current South Dakota law gives absolute immunity to people who perpetrate them. There's zero legal deterrent stopping someone from procuring these and using these drugs to end a child's life. That lack of protection is why abortion rates have increased. And that is precisely why HB 1212 is essential. This bill is not about a punishment. It is about protection. It is about recognizing that preborn children are human beings who deserve the same basic legal safeguards as other persons. HB 1212 simply applies the same laws that protect born people to children in the womb. It also protects vulnerable women. Under the current law, because self induced abortion is legal. It is likewise legal for abusive partners, traffickers and others to pressure women into ending their pregnancies. And that's really important to remember. By extending equal protection to preborn children, HB 1212 will make it illegal for abusers to coerce women into abortion. At its core, this bill is about whether every human life in South Dakota is worthy of protection. Not just some lives, not just lives that are convenient, but every life. I ask you to look at the numbers and consider the lives at stake. And please vote yes. Needs to be 12 12.

[Jeff Durbin]

I love this man. I do. I love this man. Note, please. Very important thing here. Everybody come with me on this. Bradley and I have been testifying before legislatures and hearings and in one instance, we were in a state where we in Michigan. Were we in Michigan, Bradley?

[Bradley Pierce]

Missouri.

[Jeff Durbin]

Missouri. Okay. We were in Missouri. Sorry. They're all becoming like one blended together in my mind, right? All this work. So we're in Missouri and testifying before legislature there in the hearing. And the representative from the pro life establishment then came up and used this specific argument against the bill of equal protection for all humans. She said some women are coerced into abortion and we don't think that they should be punished. For that. And so they used a bootleg, fallacious form of argumentation against the bill. And of course, the bill was killed by the pro life establishment with very bad argumentation. I am so grateful that this man of God, this legislator in the state of South Dakota, prepared in his opening the refutation to that horrific emotional argument that the pro life establishment often uses to kill our bills. Did you hear what he said? The only way to stop coercion is to make sure that it is illegal for everybody, that it is a crime for everybody, that equal protection is afforded to the child in the womb. That's how you stop coercion. He puts it in his opening statement. And it can't be rebutted. It can't be argued against. And so it was powerful. I was so glad that he said that there because I knew that someone needs to say that argumentation in anticipation of their chestnut arguments against justice for these children. Coercion. The only way to stop coercion is to give equal protection to the child in the womb, because as of right now, when you say it's legal for her to do it, when there's a protected class of killers, when the child does not have. It's not afforded equal protection in the womb. Anyone can coerce without consequence. And so if you want coercion to stop, you have to provide equal protection for the child in the womb. As Bradley has famously said, and we've all adopted it. Murdering anyone should be illegal for everyone. Memorize that, because that is equal protection with legs on it. Murdering anyone should be illegal for everyone. And that's what this provides. And so, Bradley, any comments before I play a little bit more?

[Bradley Pierce]

No. Representative Randolph was so awesome. We loved working with him. He did a great job here.

[Jeff Durbin]

Yes. I was so glad. I mean, you can ask Candy, my wife. She was, you know, sitting there next to me while I'm just sitting there listening and praying and I'm yelling at the screen and I'm saying hooray and everything else for. For these moments. And so here we go. Here's more. Thank you. We'll move to online testimony with Abby Johnson.

[Bradley Pierce]

Also, just a reminder, please make sure.

[Jeff Durbin]

You'Re registered testify, including our elected officials. And quickly, before you all see this next thing, can I just say, like I said, this is discouraging to see this injustice, but at the same time, we can see that seed becoming a tree. And it's a moment like this that we're seeing it. Abby Johnson, many of you are familiar with Abby Johnson, of course, has the film that was in theaters about her experience being a director of Planned Parenthood. And then coming out of that, Abby Johnson has had abortion or an abortion or abortions herself. And years ago, not many, many years ago, Abby Johnson many times came out in oppos to people like me and Bradley who are abolitionists and believe in equal protection. Abby Johnson was for a long time actually criticizing us for believing that it should just be equal ground and equal justice, that anybody involved should be held morally and legally responsible. In other words, the woman, she held to the party line of the establishment, that women are victims and we should never seek justice there. Abby Johnson was there. And I am thanking God, truly I am thanking God that Abby Johnson now is standing on the side of justice and even testifying on behalf of these bills of equal protection. You need to know what a big moment this is in many of our minds to see Abby Johnson, who was in such great opposition to us not many years ago, now testifying before the legislature consistent with this theme of justice. Equal justice, no protected classes, equal weights and measures. You've got to see this. And that'd be great. So, Abby, go ahead.

[Abby Johnson]

Hi. Thank you, chairman and committee members. My name is Abby Johnson. I'm actually a former Planned Parenthood abortion clinic director. I was there for eight years. I'm now a pro life activist and I'm here to. To register my support in HP 1212. I want to talk about some of the just different opposing comments that you're going to hear today and just and briefly talk about those. I've been alerted that the the South Dakota Catholic Conference of Bishops has now stated that they are in opposition of this bill. I am a Catholic, and so I want to talk about that briefly. It's crazy to me that the Catholic Church would deny equal protection of the unborn, particularly because the Catechism of the Catholic Church says that abortion is a grave sin. It says that abortion is murder. And nowhere at any point in time does the Catholic Church state that there should not be penalties for murder. In fact, it is the opposite. The Catechism of The Catholic Church 2268 says that the fifth commandment forbids direct and intentional killing and is gravely sinful. The murderer and those who operate voluntarily in murder commit a sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance. The Catechism of the Catholic Church States in 2271 the Catechism that since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. The teaching is not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say abortion willed either as a means or an ends is gravely contrary to the moral law. And there's absolutely nothing that states that abortion should be acceptable or that there should not be some sort of penalty or punishment for an abortion. And in fact, when it comes to lawmaking, the CDF says specifically from Donam Vitae, the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith says this, and this is particularly to lawmakers. It says when the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen and in particular of the more vulnerable, the unborn, the very foundations of a state based law are undetermined as a consequence of the respect and protection which must be insured for the unborn child from the moment of conception. The law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child's rights. Another objection you're going to hear is that women will not come to pregnancy centers for help if abortion is made illegal. There is absolutely no data that shows that making abortion illegal will reduce services to pregnancy centers. In fact, numbers show quite the opposite. The liberal media has done a fantastic job telling women in states like Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas and others that legally banned abortions or states that have legally banned abortions that if they seek help they will be jailed. They've done this all over. Pregnancy centers in those states have only seen an increase, a significant increase in patients. My own 24 hour abortion helpline called Loveline has seen a significant increase in phone calls from those particular states. To claim that pregnant women will no longer seek help from PRCs is blatantly false and not backed up with any evidence based data for clarity. Like the previous speaker said, abortion has not been reduced. In South Dakota, abortion continues to increase because of unreported mail order abortions. There is no strategy that will work outside of going after the consumerism of abortion. Approximately 70% of women women committing abortions now are doing so by mail order. They are the abortionists themselves. 60% of these women having abortions already have children. They are not ignorant women. Women are either sad, uneducated dummies who have no agency over their own bodies, or they are strong, capable, smart people who are able to overcome any challenge put in front of them. I choose to believe that we are the latter. If you listen to women who have had abortions like myself, you will hear us say that having an abortion was the greatest regret of our lives. Not only did we stain our souls with this grave evil of murder, but we also murdered our children. Our children suffered the consequence. The most compassionate thing that you can do for women is to place a legal barrier in order for us not to kill our children. That is what compassion looks like. A refusal to vote for this bill is a vote to allow the slaughter of the preborn to continue in South Dakota. I urge you to vote yes on HB 1212. Thank you.

[Jeff Durbin]

So what's happening here, everybody? Let me bring you in again. What is happening here? This ought to be the biggest story across Christian media platforms across the United States of America. It ought to be. The headline goes like this. Pro life establishment kills bill to end abortion. The pro life establishment wants a protected class of killers. That's what Abby Johnson is arguing against there. Now note something. When. When this attorney, Bradley Pierce, helps to draft legislation in any state across the United States of America. These bills provide specific definitions. What's in the womb is image of God. What's in the womb is human from fertilization. All of this unassailable, all of this incontrovertible, biologically, biblically. And it simply says what everybody knows in their heart of hearts is the standard equal justice and equal protection for every human being in this state. It's as simple as that. Now, no one would dare argue against equal justice and equal protection for all human beings. The atheist at dinner having a conversation about should every human being be equally protected under the law would say yay and amen. Be raising hands and hallelujah. Because that's everyone knows instinctively as image bearers of God and with the great blessings of the Christian worldview bringing us to this place, we are now that that's the standard equal justice. So what's the problem? The bill doesn't mention class, sex, male, female. The bill just says equal protection for all humans from fertilization. And then the pro life establishment, because of their dogma, because of their doctrine, because of their confession of faith, make no mistake about it, this is a religious commitment. They see that bill and though they campaign on it and they raise dollars on the facts of what's in that bill, they say, wait a minute, this would mean that our protected class would be morally culpable and legally responsible. No, no, no. We believe that there has to be a protected class of killers. And what Abby is arguing against with such precision is that doctrine and dogma that says that, no, we must have a protected class of killers. This ought to be the biggest story across every Christian media publication. The pro life establishment wants a protected class of killers. And that's why they oppose this bill. That is why they oppose this bill. Bradley, any comments?

[Bradley Pierce]

Yeah, I Mean, that's exactly right. So they. The. The bill, one thing that it does, it repeals a couple of sections of South Dakota law. Because 2005 South Dakota passes a trigger bill that was to go into effect if and when the supreme court overturned Roe vs. Wade that made abortion illegal. It didn't have a specific exemption for mothers, though. And I'll get to that in a second. And so then they. They also passed an exception to homicide, though that did have a specific exemption for mothers in 2005. So then the Supreme Court overturns Roe versus Wade in 2022. And so it's not homicide because they have an exemption for mothers, but they actually realize in their trigger bill that, wait, we don't have a specific exemption for mothers. Okay, so in 2023, one year after the Supreme Court has overturned Roe vs. Wade, what does the Pro Life Movement of South Dakota do? They actually introduce a bill to specifically add a section to the Human Life Protection act, the trigger bill here, that makes abortion illegal for everybody. And it may, you know, it doesn't even have specific exclusion for mothers, but they want to be sure that it does. So they add this to say, a female who undergoes an unlawful abortion may not be held criminally liable for the abortion. They even call the abortion unlawful. But they say if a female does it, even an unlawful abortion, she may not be held, if she undergoes. It may not be held criminally liable for the abortion. They did that after Dobbs, right after the Supreme Court has said, hey, Roe versus Wade is no longer any kind of obstacle to, over to, you know, to abolishing abortion. A year after that, South Dakota comes back and adds more laws to their books that make it even more explicit that women may legally murder their children in the state of South Dakota with impunity, with legal immunity. Yep, that's. That's where it is.

[Jeff Durbin]

Yeah.

[Bradley Pierce]

And so that. So this bill was saying the homicide code applies to, you know, to. To protect everybody equally and everybody. Everybody's equally subject to it, men and women. And then it's repealing those two. The homicide exception for women and then the abortion exception for women. And that's what got, you know, the pro life movement up in arms because, oh, no, no, we cannot have the law equally protecting everyone and everyone being equally subject to the law murdering anyone.

[Jeff Durbin]

Should be illegal for everyone. Simple as that. The pro life establishment officially made it very clear they've done it many times before. They did it when they killed every bill we've ever put in. And of course, with their major letter to kill our bill in Louisiana. When it got to the floor with over 70 of the major pro life organizations across this nation, they made it clear then too, they made it clear when they're testifying against Bradley and I on behalf of these bills. In other states they've made it very clear. But today they made it so, so vividly clear for everybody. They do not believe that what I said to you, murdering anyone should be illegal for everyone. They believe that murdering anyone should be illegal for some, but not for everybody. Now you might be hearing that right now and you think that I'm crazy. You're hearing that right now and you think that I'm telling tales. You're hearing that right now. Maybe you think that I'm exaggerating in some sense. There is no exaggeration here. This is not hyperbole. I'm telling you the straight truth. They will tell you to your face that they believe that women are victims and ought not to ever see any punishment which means abortion will never be abolished by the pro life establishment. They are not working for the abolition of abortion. They are not working so that there is a totally illegal industry of abortion in this nation. In terms of no one's allowed to do this. No one's allowed to procure these things, no one's allowed to self induce these things. No one's allowed to do this. The pro life establishment believes that there is supposed to be a protected class of killers. And I want to note one more encouraging thing. If you get to watch this hearing in full, what you will note I think immediately is how much there is reference to Christ, the word of God, God's standards of justice, but also this very powerful word now that's being put before legislatures across the country because of the work of the Christian church. And that is the word murder. That word murder is used throughout this hearing and it is used freely and it is used with so much confidence. That in itself is a dramatic change. And I want to say something about that. That change, to be able to have that kind of boldness over this issue is as a result of the faithful, uncompromising witness of the Christian church getting into this and using the word of God in the gospel. That's why we're talking this way. Christians. You've emboldened these legislators. As my pastor friend, I think it was Pastor west said this week in Chicago, cowardice is. How did he word it? He said that cowardice is contagious. Cowardice is contagious, but so is courage, so is courageous. When everyone around you is being a coward that's contagious. It's easy to fall into that pit with them. But courage and the courage of the Christian church and faithful proclamation of the word of God and the gospel is what's got us to where we are at today. We're in this hearing. You will hear the word murder thrown out with confidence and no fear. This is murder. This is murder. So what we're going to do right now, everyone, is this. I'm going to ask you to do something. This ought to be across every Christian media publication in this nation. What happened today, what you're about to witness, what you're going to see with your own eyes and hear with your own ears, should be the talk of the Christian church across this nation. Wait a minute. What did you say? We've been paying you for these dozens of years. We've been giving you our money, our time, our trust, and you are stopping the abolition of abortion. You want women to be able to do this with impunity and immunity in perpetuity, forever. You're not working to abolish this and to absolutely criminalize it. That's the truth. That's what you're going to hear with your own ears today. So we're going to come back. I'm going to let you hear Bradley Pierce's testimony and we're going to cut right into the testimony of the pro life leaders, the pro life establishment that killed the bill of justice for children in South Dakota. That is not an exaggeration. I am not again being hyperbolic. They killed it. The pro life establishment is the greatest enemy to the abolition of abortion in this nation. I can back that up and I can argue that anybody wants to debate that. I can prove it to you with testimony after testimony after testimony and event after event. They do not want to abolish abortion and to criminalize it for everybody. They do not believe that what I've been saying that Bradley has made so popular that murdering anyone should be legal for everyone. They do not believe that. And I'm going to prove it to you with witnesses and evidence right after this break. This episode's brought to you by ion [e-mail] Go and check out the health benefits, the wellness benefits and longevity benefits of NAD treatments. NAD is nicknamed the Fountain of Youth for a reason. You have an abundance of this in your system when you're young. As you get older, it drops off. And now we found a way to get NAD into our systems. They do it through IV treatments, but they're very expensive and it's also extremely painful and difficult. However, Ion Layer found a way to get a high dose of NAD into your system through a medical patch you wear on your arm. You wear it for about 14 hours, you get a high dose of NAD treatment into your system and no pain at all. And it is a fraction of the cost of what you would pay for an IV treatment in the coupon code. Type in Apologia in all caps. They're going to hook you up with a great discount for an already amazingly cost effective product. And they bless Apologia Studios and help us to stay on the air and do all these programs with you. Don't forget. Also, Ion Layer has added a glutathione patch as well. Glutathione, the master antioxidant. Go check out the health benefits of glutathione. I'm doing this stuff anyways. It's blessed my life in tremendous ways and so if you want to focus on your health, wellness and longevity, nothing better in my mind than ionlayer.com for your NAD and Glutathione treatments. Ionlayer.com don't forget to put Apologia in all caps in the coupon code. You shall not pervert justice. You shall not show partiality. Deuteronomy 16:19. You should not fall in with the many to do evil. You should not bear witness in a lawsuit siding with the many so as to pervert justice. Nor shall you be partial to a poor man in his lawsuit. Leviticus 19:15. That was, by the way, that was Exodus 23:2 3. Leviticus 19:15 says, you shall do no injustice in court. You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor. And that's what this is all about. Scripture is very clear. It's abundantly clear. Justice and only justice shall you do. The role of lawmakers is not to legislate mercy. The role of lawmakers is to legislate God's standards of justice and righteousness to protect the weak and the vulnerable. To uphold God's standards of equal protection and justice for all. Unequal weights and measures are an abomination to God. Now again, this ought to be the story across this nation right now. And the only way to make that happen, brothers and sisters, is please join us in exposing this. We are never going to overcome this. We're never going to slay this dragon and end this evil if the Christian church doesn't start testifying against it. And many Christians in your circle don't know that this is happening. They're still sending off money with their own benevolence, sending off money to these organizations. And they think as Christians in the pews, they think these people are trying to end it. No, these people just ended justice today in South Dakota. That's what they're ending. They're ending justice, not injustice. And that again, is not an exaggeration. We are exposing the evil for all to see. And help us do it. Help us do it. Show everybody, let everyone know that this is actually what's taking place. Because so many Christians don't. Just one quick thing before we go to Bradley's testimony next week in South Dakota, we have a meeting calling all pastors and leaders in South Dakota. Please join. End abortion now in South Dakota. If you are in South Dakota, pastor leader, come, come to this meeting. Location is 2601 West 69th street in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. 57108. Start time is 6pm Admission is free. After the episode today, I'm going to put the link for you to RSVP into the comments of this video. So you need to go there and you need to sign up because we also are providing dinner. And so in South Dakota, you need to get there. We need to work together as the church. We had so many over 100 pastors and leaders join me in Chicago for the bill we have in Illinois. We have pastors and Christians and churches and organizations working together across the country in many states, like Georgia. Georgia, we're going to be having a rally very, very soon, which Bradley, I need to tell you about that, by the way, after the show today, hopefully you can join us for the rally. I know you're doing a lot of traveling, but we're doing it in Georgia very, very soon and so, so much is happening. You can help us right now by simply doing two things. One, click the share thing, right? Do the likes and the shares. All the things YouTube's likes, YouTube likes. So this can get in the hearing of as many people as possible. Do the share thing. Let your friends and family know across your social media platforms. Let them know what is actually taking place. Let them watch this, let them see this. Next you can go to endabortionnow.com please go there, pray for us. Yes, but please give, please give to help us to pull all this off, to accomplish this. Look how close we are getting. Abby Johnson's testimony was so, so encouraging to me in the midst of so much discouragement to see that is obviously the hand of God on This minds are changing. So now I want you to see Bradley Pierce's testimony here. He's right after Abby. And here we go.

[Bradley Pierce]

The foundation to Abolish Abortion. Thank you for your time. As an attorney who's helped draft these kind of bills for over 10 years and helped draft this one here today, I can address any questions later that you may have about it. But it's really, really simple. You cannot abolish abortion, which I assume many of you, if not all of you, want to do. You cannot abolish abortion without making it illegal for anyone, including the mother, to murder a preborn child. And you cannot protect women from being pressured to abort a preborn child unless you make it illegal for them to do so. Because if you keep it legal for women to abort their child, you're also keeping it legal for men and abusers and others to pressure them into doing that. But if you make it illegal for them now, you can go after the abusers and the others for soliciting a murder and for being party to a murder and conspiracy to murder. So that's how you protect both the child and the mother, by making it illegal for everyone, which is called equal protection. Some people want to over complicate this with a lot of what ifs about how it would be enforced. But again, this is simple. This state already has a justice system that you trust every day when you pass laws that that justice system is to enforce. And so you already trust this justice system. Laws restrain law enforcement already from intrusive investigations without probable cause. Every defendant is a presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Juries have to be unanimous to convict, judges, sentence. All of this is reviewed by other judges. And even if everyone somehow unanimously gets the result wrong, there's a board of pardons and Paroles to review and that can pardon. So the implication that I think you're going to hear others make that somehow law enforcement, prosecutors, judges, juries, appellate judges, and this board of pardons in this state are just itching to unjustly investigate, prosecute and sentence women is absurd to do so unjustly to hit. A couple of other objections. Ectopic pregnancies. The bill explicitly allows doctors to deal with those miscarriages. The bill explicitly says it does not apply to miscarriages. My wife and I have had four miscarriages. That is a tragedy. This bill is about homicide, not about natural or accidental deaths. I want to end by reminding us of eight things about really the true significance of what's happening here today and what we're talking about. Number one, human babies are still being murdered legally in this state. As we have already heard, over 308 babies a year being murdered right here in this state by telehealth pills alone. Number two, Roe versus Wade no longer provides any obstacle to legally protecting them. Three, instead of protecting these babies, the government of South Dakota still denies them the equal protection of the laws. Number four, because of the laws passed by this legislature, their mothers can still legally murder these babies, and their fathers and others can still legally pressure women to murder their babies. Number five. The innocent blood of thousands of these children a year. I'm sorry. The innocent blood of hundreds of these children a year cries out to Jesus Christ, their creator, for justice. Six, this Jesus Christ, who is the king of kings, has set each of you in these seats and has delegated to each of you the authority that you hold. You're here for such a time as this if you know the story of Esther. Number seven. As Psalm 82 tells us, God stands in the congregation of the mighty like you and judges among the rulers like you. And he says, how long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Defend the poor and fatherless, do justice to the afflicted and needy, deliver the poor and needy, free them from the hand of the wicked? Finally, number eight, he demands that us civil magistrates outlaw murder. It's one of your chief duties. And abolish child sacrifice. And that's why we're here today. And I'll be available for any questions. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Pierce.

[Jeff Durbin]

All right.

[Representative Randolph]

We.

[Jeff Durbin]

So powerful, Bradley. Thank you for that. That was in what, four minutes? Three. Four minutes? Something like that. That was.

[Bradley Pierce]

I wasn't keeping track.

[Jeff Durbin]

Yeah, it was impressive and I was thankful for it that you were able to get so much rock solid testimony in. In such a short period of time. I was so grateful. I was praying for you intensely. The spirit of God will speak through you. And he did. He truly did. You mentioned all of the things. Well, most of the things. I think the only thing that didn't come up here was the IVF thing, which was interesting in this hearing. I don't think I heard it come up, and I must have missed it if it did, but I didn't hear it come up as anticipating it. But you mentioned the major objections to the bills that the pro life establishment puts in against us. And then you mentioned those eight things. Powerful testimony, this unassailable. They couldn't respond to any of this. And guess what? You'll see they didn't, they can't respond to these. These bills are straightforward, true, rock solid and unassailable. And the kind of I'm sure, I'm sorry emotional games and manipulative arguments that have to be employed against these is just honestly so shameful. So shameful. And so I'm thankful for you brother. I am so, so truly thankful. Let me see here. I have to run out of this. Time for proponent testimony. We recognize just a few online will.

[Bradley Pierce]

Allow for me to's from.

[Jeff Durbin]

I want you to hear this next piece Cross online.

[Jenna Cross]

Yes. Jenna Cross. Jenna Cross with Alliance Family Services. We are a multi state pregnancy health organization and in strong support of HB 1212. This bill does not harm pregnancy centers.

[Jeff Durbin]

It strengthens our mission. Thank you. Thank you. That was powerful because one of the arguments against the bill of course is that somehow this, if you, if you criminalize abortion, it's gonna somehow mess with or harm and destroy the pregnancy resource centers in the state of South Dakota to which every thinking person, rationally thinking person would be thinking how, how exactly would it do that? How exactly would criminalizing abortion harm pregnancy resource centers? I would think that it actually would help to have those organizations and centers grow because now it's a crime in this state to kill my baby in the womb. So I need help and I need resources. And so that opens the door and pathway to get that industry even more funding and the ability to support help more mothers because it's now a crime in the state to actually do this. And the argument against the bill is if you criminalize abortion, it's going to essentially what, shut down pregnancy resource centers? How did you get to that leap from there? But they do it. Every emotional appeal that they can possibly do, they do. And Bradley of course mentions the famous ones, the ectopic pregnancies, miscarriages and coercion and utterly refutes those, those claims against the bill. And so that is, that's what happened in the opening. Now more was said, there were even more testimonies in yeas. But I'm going to actually get you all to what you're waiting for now. And that is where it opens up to those who are in opposition to this bill. And here we go, opponent testimony. And I will give the opponents the same sort of deference in time that I did the proponents. But I am starting a timer. Thank you for being efficient. Mr. Chair and Committee members. Thank you for this opportunity. Dale Barcher, registered lobbyist with senior South Dakota Right to Life and we do, when you hear Those words, right to life. Generally speaking, you know there's opposition. That's our opposition. National Right to Life has worked to kill our bills. Louisiana Right to life, you name the state and they are standing next to us in opposition to our bills. And so now you hear the words there. Right to life, you know it's not going to go well. Rise in opposition of House Bill 1212. We have been at the forefront of the effort to protect innocent human life since 1971. That's 55 years. No other organization has such a long and proven record of advancing life saving policies for both mothers and their babies. That legacy is earned. Through decades of tireless work, we have helped pass laws that protect unborn children and save lives in real and measurable ways. To this end, we have continually approached this mission with compassion. Just as we have opposed the injustice of abortion itself, we have also consistently opposed policies that would criminally punish women for more. Did you hear it? Did you hear it? I told you. Bradley's told you. Other faithful pastors and organizations across the country. Abolitionists have told you and you just heard him say it. We oppose the legislation that leads to the criminalization of women who do this. I told you that they believe in a protected class of killers. I told you that they are upfront with it. They say it freely. That's their dogma. That's their doctrine. That's a confession of faith that we believe that she ought to be protected. To do this with no punishment, no penalty. I told you. And he said it. Not behind closed doors. He said it. Not at a cocktail party in somebody's ear. He said it here at a hearing that would have established justice for the preborn. Move this to the floor for a vote to establish justice in the state of South Dakota. He said it there. This is no longer something people mutter. This is not something that people whisper to one another. This is something that they say out loud with confidence. And what is it that they're saying? That mothers ought to be protected in this state to kill their children in the wombs with no punishment and they must be given immunity to do it from their own mouth. You heard it. And now, more than 50 years, we in the broader pro life community have been clear and consistent in both our moral convictions and our strategic approach as we support her, love them. We respectfully ask that you would send House Bill 1212 to the 41st day. Support her to do what? Support her to do what? We love them, mother and baby. And we support her now. I'm sorry, but I'm going to say very directly what. This is absolute bullcrap. Don't say to me that you love them, but you support her to have the right to do this. Can we call that what it is? What do you say? Call a spade a spade. Call a thing the thing that it is. Support her. Love them. I'm sorry, you can't say that you love the baby and at the same time kill the bill that protects the baby. That's not love. And those of us who are thinking biblically and rationally, we see it and we're going to call it out. You are a dying breed. You are a dying breed. Because at a certain point, the Christian church, the lights come on and we say, oh, no, this is an atrocity. Oh, no, this is darkness. Oh, no, this is evil. And we're going to shine light on it. And that's what's taking place right now. This is being exposed. You heard this man with right to life just tell you that they believe that women ought to be protected to do this. They should not be punished. We want to love the mother and the baby so much that we allow the mother to do this with no consequence. Did you hear it? That's not a misinterpretation of what was said. That's what was said on the floor here at this hearing. That's the testimony. Bradley, do you want to respond to some of that?

[Bradley Pierce]

I mean, that's exactly right. And he said he. He emphasizes, he's proud of. This has been their consistent position of their organization and of the broader pro life movement. Guys, that's why there's an abolitionist movement. Right? Because this. He's right. This has been the consistent position of the pro life movement and leaders. And he's going to continue to double down on this throughout this. And that's why there's an abolitionist movement. And when I say abolitionist movement, I just mean a Christian movement of Christians being Christians and taking what God says and applying it to this and saying, hey, it's kind of obvious what God says we should do here. Right? And that's why I call myself an abolitionist, because I don't want to be associated with leaders like this who, you know, who hate what God loves and who loves what God hates. As God points out, to acquit the wicked and to condemn the innocent, it's an abomination to him.

[Jeff Durbin]

Yes.

[Bradley Pierce]

So God hates what this man is doing and what this man is saying.

[Jeff Durbin]

That's right. Bradley just brought up that text from Proverbs 17. Whoever acquits the guilty and condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to the Lord. And we all recognize and feel the weight of that because we know about the cross of Christ and we think about that was the condemnation of the righteous. And everyone knows what an abomination that was to put a man there on that tree who was innocent. Pilate even says, I find no fault in him. You see to it. So he's declared innocent as a matter of public record in history. And everyone says, crucify him. Crucify him. And everyone says, that's such an injustice. Such an injustice. It's something that is loathsome to God and ought to be loathsome to us. But then God also says the inverse is also true. If you acquit the wicked, if you say to the wicked, you're not guilty, sweetheart, you're not guilty, sweetheart, you're also a victim yourself. God says, that is loathsome to me.

[Bradley Pierce]

Well, you know, I just thought of something I hadn't thought about before. Right. What else happens? Not only does Jesus declared innocent and then condemned, but then what do they say? Give us Barabbas. Yes, Right. We want to acquit the guilty and condemn the innocent.

[Jeff Durbin]

Powerful.

[Bradley Pierce]

That's exactly what's going on here with abortion. We're wanting to acquit the guilty mother and condemn the innocent child.

[Jeff Durbin]

I'll let everyone hang. I'm not going to speak for a couple more seconds and let that set. That's what's happening. You need to feel the weight of it. Brothers and sisters, you got to share this. This is not about Bradley. It's not about Jeff Durbin. It's not about Polygia. It's not about an abortion. Now this is something the Christian church needs to know is happening. Your pastors need to know this is happening. It's time for the world to see. They're saying it out loud. We knew they were saying these things. We knew they were telling us. We could hear them whispering it. We knew. But now that the Lord has allowed these bills of equal protection and abolition to happen across this nation, now they have to come on the floor in the public square. They have to come into the place of justice itself and they have to tell you with their own mouths, oh, no, no, no, we don't want that justice. We don't want it now. They're forced by God to stand there in this seat and to stand in opposition to justice for these preborn children, these human beings, these image bearers of God in the womb. And guess what? Listen, though you might hear numbers of hundreds and thousands and tens of thousands happening in particular states and across the country. And it's incomprehensible to you. You can't even fathom or you can't fathom 65 million-plus dead babies. None of us really can. Don't ever forget that. God knows their names. Each and every single one of these children killed in this holocaust. God knows every single one of their names and every single one of them. The blood of those children cries out to God. And I believe what's happening here with all my heart is God. Because of his grace and moving the Christian church into this is exposing this evil. Help us. Please help us to expose it. Share this episode for the sole reason of making sure that the Christian church hears these testimonies in opposition to the murder of children in South Dakota. Who is responsible now for murder in South Dakota? The murder of these children continuing in South Dakota? This man and the people who stood behind beside him and behind him to support killing this bill. That's why it happened. Would we have had all yeses in South Dakota? Absolutely. If all of these establishment types actually believed what they said and supported this, it would have screw screamed through. It would have happened in Louisiana. It would have happened in a number of states that we've been in. It would have screamed through every single time. It's not Planned Parenthood and the pro aborts and the pro choicers that come and have the vile opposition against us. No, they don't even have to show up. They don't even have to show up because sitting next to us in opposition to these bills of justice is the pro life leaders and establishment. That's who's killing these bills. So when I've said, and I know some people have criticized me for this before, I've seen it. I've heard it. When I've said, when we've said that the pro life establishment is the greatest enemy to the end of abortion in this nation, people have said that's not fair. I think you're being unfair. I think you're being untruthful. I think that's not wise. When we've said it, we've been pointing you to this very thing and today was testified to in the state, in the state of South Dakota, they are keeping it legal. Here it is. Thank you Mr.

[Bradley Pierce]

Chair.

[Jeff Durbin]

Thank you. Further open a testimony for House Bill 1212.

[Jenna Cross]

Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, my name is Jenna Spellerberg. I'm here today on my own behalf. I've been working as a Registered nurse for five years at Alpha Center, a pregnancy resource center in Suicide Falls. Myself and the Alpha team meet with women weekly who are considering abortion for their pregnancy. They do not come desiring to murder their children. When women bravely walk through our doors, they come scared, alone, hopeless and ashamed. They come searching for love. We offer non judgmental support no matter their pregnancy decision.

[Jeff Durbin]

Did you hear that? This wishy washy. We just love you, love you so much not to give you the kiss of truth. The person who actually tells the truth is the one who kisses the neighbor on the lips. That's what the proverb says. When you hide a thing, when you diminish a thing, you're not loving her. That's not love. That's not love. We support her in whatever decision she makes. Really, what value is your pregnancy center if you're giving non judgmental support? Because actually the love, the kiss of truth is when that person comes in and says, I'm considering murdering my child, my own child. The Christian church says, no, no, you can't murder your child. Will help you, will stand with you. But mom, please don't murder your child. Don't do that. God commands against the murder of your own child. We will help you, we will support you. Do not murder your child. That's the kiss of truth. That's kissing on the lips. That's the greatest act of demonstration that you truly love a person, that you tell them the truth. And so we have a pregnancy center that says that we are offering non judgmental and no matter which decision they make, where's the love there? No, no, this whole idea of, you know, we're just non judgmental and we just love. Well, God is love and he's also a righteous judge. He's the perfection of those two categories, justice and love. And everyone wants to say we need to love our neighbors. Okay, well if you love your neighbors, you will uphold justice on behalf of your neighbor. As a matter of fact, one of the great ways to identify that you will love your neighbor is that you will uphold justice for them. That is actually the full detailed expression of the law of God. Right? So Jesus says, you know, two greatest commandments, Love God with our heart, soul, mind and strength. He says, love your neighbor as you love yourself. He says all of the law and the prophets are built upon this. Meaning what? That all those laws in God's word about no partiality and justice and only justice shall you do, and no unequal weights and measures, and don't show any pity and eye for eye, tooth for tooth that is loving God and loving neighbor. So if you want to love your neighbor, you will tell them the truth. If you want to love your neighbor, you will uphold justice on behalf of your neighbor. When that woman walks into your pregnancy center, you're not dealing with just one image bearer of God. You're dealing with two. There are two people here to love, which means you offer the support and love and truth to the mother and you do everything you can to make sure that you protect and preserve the life of that child. That is love. And you do not, you do not send the woman outside of your office saying, well, I support your decision. Is that how we deal with other sins? Someone says, I want to go off and do this evil thing or I want to go off and dive into a bottle for the rest of my life. We just say, no, I support you, I support you. I'm not going to judge you. No. Judge with righteous judgment. Scripture says, and do not support anybody that would take the life of their child in the womb. Have we forgotten what we're dealing with? I think it's because we don't know their names, but God does.

[Jenna Cross]

A safe and confidential place to share their story and compassionate care. In moments of profound vulnerability, a client visited us considering abortion. Due to pressure from her boyfriend, she was able to see her baby at seven weeks and the flicker of a heartbeat on the ultrasound, she decided she wanted to continue the pregnancy and stated, I am the protector of this life. A teenage mother came to us seeking abortion. Her mother told her she would be kicked out of the house if she had her baby. Another woman found us after taking the first abortion drug, searching for a way to continue the pregnancy. She did not want to follow through with a chemical abortion. We helped her access abortion pill reversal, a life saving progesterone protocol that allowed her pregnancy to continue. Her baby is now a healthy and happy four year old boy. If women fear judgment or prosecution, they will never step through our doors. If we never have the chance to reach her, we will never have the chance to reach her baby. If pregnancy centers do not report that a woman had an abortion, I would be very concerned that we would be charged with misprision of a felony. One client shared her abortion story for the first time with us. She was informed that she could come back to Alpha at any time to begin a journey of healing. She said, I can come back here for that. Thank you for not judging me. Many women go on to experience symptoms of post traumatic stress disorder and suicidal ideation. If she fears criminalization she will never seek out support, living out a prison sentence created in her own mind for the rest of her Life. More than 70% of abortions are now performed with the abortion pill. The entities to prosecute our websites that are mailing abortion pills to South Dakota addresses, breaking the law we already have in place. Boyfriends, parents and traffickers can order the pills without the consent of the pregnant mother. Women will continue to order pills online, take them at home, and never tell anyone. A young client shared recently that her boyfriend ordered the pills for her, even with the help and support of his parents. Women in these vulnerable moments are more than just statistics, political talking points, or someone to judge or criminalize. They are real people with real stories in need of real help and compassion. House Bill 1212 is a threat to the grace that Jesus Christ extended to all of us on the cross. Thank you.

[Jeff Durbin]

Thank you so much to respond to there. I'll start at the end there, Bradley, then I'll let you jump in that. House Bill 1212 is a threat to the grace of Jesus Christ. Is a threat to the grace of Jesus Christ. Do we speak this way about other injustices and evils and crimes? Here's what I mean by that, and please hear me on this, because this is, I think, a potent point. It needs to be stated. Do we talk this way, speak this way about other crimes in society? And I'll tell you what I mean by that. So do we as Christians want mercy, grace, forgiveness and eternal life for the thief? Yes. We actually have prison ministries where we go to preach the gospel to those who are in prison. We want the thief, the robber, the abuser to receive the grace of God and the mercy of God in the cross of Jesus Christ. Do we want that? Yes. I want it for myself. I do. I need it, the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ for all of my sins. And we want it for every murderer, every liar, every adulterer, every thief. We want the mercy and grace of Jesus Christ. But the statement was made that HB 1212 is going to somehow thwart the grace of Jesus Christ in the cross. Again, do we talk that way about things like theft? Let's try it. Let's actually see if we're being consistent here. Do we want grace and mercy and forgiveness for the thief? Yes. Does that mean we want to actually take theft off the books and decriminalize theft? Is that really what we're suggesting here? Then in order to have grace for the thieves, we need to make it to where thieves are not held culpable and Morally responsible, legally responsible for the crime. That's how we show grace. The grace of Jesus Christ is we make sure that the thief is not seen as a thief. And there's no judgment that we love the thief. They might have been fallen in hard times. You don't know what they're going through. Maybe they also had sort of a community around them that encouraged this lifestyle of thievery and robbing. And they couldn't help it because that's where they. How they were raised. And so they're just a vict, Them themselves. And so. No, no, no. What we need is grace. And so if you criminalize theft, if you put it on the books that you shall not steal, then that's going to remove the grace for the thief. Does anybody really think like that? Are we really that muddy in our thinking? And I think the reason that we are, perhaps that she is is because when this comes in, it comes with a soft voice, and it comes in with such a desire for grace and love. We use the words compassion and love and nurturing and protection. And you go, hey, I love all those things. I'm a Christian. Okay, maybe I'll go that way with you. So what does it mean to go that way with you? Well, it means that you need to make sure that she can commit this crime with no judgment, because, make no mistake about it, that's what she said, that we need to allow women in South Dakota to do this with no punishment. And she kept saying it without judgment. And make no mistake about it, that is the. That's the farthest thing from the Christian worldview in biblical faith. This is not compassion, nor is it Christian. Don't be deluded to think that it is. Don't be impressed with the soft voice and all of the language of compassion and love and protection and mercy. Don't do that. No. Yes. We have to judge murder. We have to judge theft. We have to judge rape. We have to judge kidnapping. We need to judge it. And Scripture says, your eye, in doing this, judgment shall not pity. Do you get that? That's a command of God, that when someone is guilty of a crime, do we want mercy for them? Yes. Do we want them to know Jesus? Yes. But you are not supposed to pity the person who is actually the offender and guilty. You have to say, I'm sorry, you're guilty. You're just guilty. And now you have to face this because you're guilty. Your eye shall not pity. These are the words of God. They're the words of God, Bradley.

[Bradley Pierce]

Exactly. You Know, I think of Micah 6, 8, saying, what does the Lord require of you? And we're to walk humbly with the Lord our God, and we are to love mercy, but what does he require us? What does he require us to do? To do justice. We're to love mercy, but we are to do justice. And that's what these legislators, that's what they've been appointed to do. To love mercy. They should love it, but what are they to do justice?

[Jeff Durbin]

There you go.

[Bradley Pierce]

She mentions also a couple times a boyfriend pressuring one young woman to an abortion, a parent pressuring another young woman toward an abortion. In both of those cases, the pro life movement has no answer to those things. How can we deal with these outside parties pressuring pregnant women toward abortions? How do we deal with that? Our bill deals with it just like we deal with every other murder. Right? Why are there not people, you know, why are there not many people who are pressuring people to murder their husbands? Why aren't doctors telling, you know, why aren't psychologists, you know, telling women, well, I'm having a lot of problem with, with my husband. Why aren't psychologists telling them, hey, you know what? You can just murder him. You know why? It's because that's illegal. It's illegal to encourage someone to commit murder. That's soliciting murder or it's encouraging murder, which is, which makes you a party to that murder if that person goes through with it, that's a crime. But it's not a crime if it's not a crime for the woman. And so that's what. They have no answer to that. Like this, this young woman says, this, this woman came in and she's being pressured. This woman came in this, this being pressured. Like, you know what, there's a solution to this, and that is to make it illegal for everyone. And then that makes it illegal to pressure. So it's not just best for the baby, which is the number one person victim here, but even for women who are being coerced, the solution is still to make abortion illegal for everyone. That would protect those women as well.

[Jeff Durbin]

Also protects them from the PTSD and the trauma that they often cite in terms of women who have engaged in this. Had to deal. Of course they, of course they do. They're mothers. They're made in God's image. They can't escape the way that God built the world and built them as moms. And so, yes, of course, these women deal with the trauma and the guilt and the shame from taking the life of Their child. And we want them to know Jesus and the forgiveness of God they can have on the cross. Absolutely. But they often cite that these women are often plagued with PTSD and trauma and all these things. And, you know, we need to love them. Okay, how about loving them enough to not allow them to fall into that pit to begin with? How do you stop them from experiencing the trauma and the shame and the guilt? How about providing a barrier in their lives where, when they find themselves in challenging and difficult situations, they can come for mercy and help and grace from the organizations and churches around them to support them, lift them up, even adopt their child, care for their needs. We see it every single day in my life. That's what End Abortion now does in so many other organizations. We come in and we support these women and we say, we're here for you. Don't do this thing. And we're there the whole way through with them. But their suggestion is, well, they struggle with PTSD and trauma and shame and guilt from this. So we ought to just allow those to keep going and going and going, and they can do it in perpetuity. Is that really the solution? I mean, if you find cancer, isn't the solution to destroy the cancer and remove it from the body? Or do we just let it metastasize and just continue? Let's see how well we do with leaving this here. No, this thing is corrupting and it's destructive. If you truly love this woman and you're compassionate towards her, you'll put a barrier between her and the cliff and say, don't go that way. And here's the thing, and you're going to hear this over and over and over again. You're going to hear, we want to not only make it illegal, we want it to be unthinkable. Can I give some suggestion here? One of the best ways to make something unthinkable like, I can't do that is to make it a crime. To make it a crime. You make it a crime and people are less likely to think about doing it. They're saying, well, that's not a solution there. I don't want to go to jail. I don't want to be punished for this. So where are the different lanes that I can go right now to actually overcome this difficulty without actually being seen as somebody who is immoral or a murderer or guilty and will receive punishment? What do I have to do? Where are my options now to not take the life of my child? That's how you do it normally in these Circumstances. That's how we think about crimes. But somehow, because of the indoctrination of the pro life establishment, we don't anymore. Seven minutes left for opponent testimony. House Bill 1212, I want you to hear one more testimony. Then Bradley and I are going to wrap up after this. But we're going to do a quick commercial break. Everybody stay with us and please do all the things. Everybody. Like I said to you, if you're just jumping into this, this should be it ought to be on the front page of every major Christian publication in this nation that the pro life establishment ended the bill of justice for the preborn in South Dakota today. They did it. And it's because they've said repeatedly they want a protected class of killers. That is why women, they believe, ought to be able to do this with no punishment and legal protection under the law. They said it. They said it before. And now you have them as witnesses coming up right now testifying over and over and over again to this truth. So quick commercial break. Everybody stay with us. Do all the things share. Let everybody know. Be right back.

[Representative Randolph]

This video is brought to you by Amtec Blades. We are very excited to be partnering with amtech. Bill Rapier, long time Navy seal, Dev group operator, amazing brother and friend looking for a battle axe to carry on your person to chop some wood. They've got you covered. Looking for a blade to carry on you every day. Also got you covered. Look at this. I gotta check my mail. What do we got going on here? Oh, look how sharp that is. What is this? Oh, 5% off. You can go to amtech blades.com, put apology in the coupon code, get 5% off your order and he will match that and give 5% to end abortion. Now again, amtech blades.com. we're grateful for them. Check them out.

[Jeff Durbin]

Welcome back, everybody. So gonna play one more testimony. August is here with me today. Guys. This is, this is dad having an August responsibility today. Hey, you can hop in the chair, buddy. Here, let me help you out. He got bored in there sitting by himself so he came in here to sit with me. So we're gonna finish up the episode today playing one more testimony. We're gonna wrap it up with Bradley and I having a few ending comments and then encourage everybody to do again, two things. One, please share this this across your social media platforms. Let your friends know, let your pastors know, let your family know, let everybody know we need to shed light on this and then continue to pray for us, please. Of course. But if you would go to endabortionnow.com, help us to make our budget for 2026. We didn't do a major funding drive at the end of the year because we've been so busy with ministry. But we need you to support and stand with us. We have so much coming up. We have to do a press conference in Illinois for the bill that's happening there. We have to go back to Georgia, do a rally, hopefully get our hearing in Georgia very soon. We have bills happening across the country. It's happening in Tennessee, multiple states across the union. We need you to stand with us, partner with us financially. Also, please partner with Bradley's organization. Bradley, where can they go, by the way, website to do that?

[Bradley Pierce]

FAA Life.

[Jeff Durbin]

FAA life. Go there, support. And if you would give financially to help us to accomplish this. And you got to understand something, what took place in South Dakota here, if you knew the number of people who were working on this and the limited number of resources to actually pull this off, it would very much surprise you. If you saw the number of people helping originally in Louisiana or any of these other states, it would very much surprise you how God is overcoming this evil with such a limited army. And so please stand with us and please, if you can, give towards that. So one more testimony, then Bradley and I will wrap this up.

[Leah Anderson]

Good morning, Mr.

[Abby Johnson]

Chair.

[Leah Anderson]

Many of you usually see me here testifying on bills that are election related, but today I'm here. Oh, sorry, Leah Anderson. Today I'm here on behalf of myself and I'm one of those stories. So just to be clear, I've taken the day off from my job that the taxpayers pay for so that I could be here to testify. At the age of 15, I was date raped. Through the advice of my family physician and the family, my parents, or advice to the parents, I was told to seek abortion. My abortion experience at that time was very different. It was through a private doctor, but it was still no different in the way it impacted my life. As I went on, my relationship with my parents became distanced. I turned to very poor behavior. And as I approached my early 20s, I thought that that was how you handled unexpected pregnancy. Because of the lies that were told to me by the family doctor. I still believed those lies for many years. And then I visited a Planned Parenthood later in my 20s for another abortion. That experience was definitely different. And I realized over the years that what I had done was very wrong. I did live in those lies, the shame, the regret. And I had many bad relationships for 20 years after that. And finally, in 2004, after a night of too much drinking, which happens to post abortive women, I cried out to God and asked him to help me. And he did. I found salvation, I found forgiveness, and mostly I found the people at Alpha center to help me heal through that experience. This was in 2005 and that changed my life dramatically. So my early.

[Jeff Durbin]

And wouldn't it be great? Wouldn't it have been such a benefit and a blessing to this woman who found grace and forgiveness and mercy in Christ? Wouldn't it have been such a blessing that this would not have been permitted, that she would have been protected by the law itself, that the law itself would have taught her, I can't do this. We can't do this to my child. Wouldn't it have been so great that all those years of anguish and shame and pain and all the complications that come along with that sin, all of them something she didn't have to contend with because the law would have protected her and her baby babies. Wouldn't it have been great experience with.

[Leah Anderson]

Coming to this capitol and Testifying was in 2006 and I would come here to testify on pro life bills. So the Lord saved me. But Alpha center did help me. So now I have the privilege of helping women heal from post abortive experiences. I counsel women and it's very difficult for a woman to come to the Alpha center and ask for that help. It's very hard for them to make that phone call. Many will spiral into an emotional mess if they feel the threat of prosecution. The consequence of this bill will leave many women in their life of guilt and shame and they would be very unlikely to open up about their sin and would spiral into an emotional mess. Suicide is certainly the direction of many women. In addition, if I was counseling a post abortive woman and she did take the pills to abort her baby in our state and committed a crime, I would have to report her or I would be faced with a misdemeanor.

[Jeff Durbin]

Bradley, can you speak to that? That was an interesting form of argumentation she makes there.

[Bradley Pierce]

I mean, again, this gets to just thinking about these pregnancy resource centers, they wouldn't it be good if, you know, you're trying to talk women out of abortions, wouldn't it be a great tool to have in the toolbox to talk a woman out of abortion, to tell her, oh, by the way, if you decide to go through with this, here's this massive serious penalty, wouldn't that be a nice negotiating tool to have in the toolbox right I mean, talk about it like that. That pretty much going to close every deal, right? Like, oh, well, then I guess I'm not going to do that. Okay, well, great. Then let's talk about how we can actually help you with your baby. And again, kind of coming back to the whole, like, you know, this whole argument that we've heard repeatedly now that others have addressed and others addressed later in this hearing, you know, that, oh, this is going to hurt pregnancy resource. You know, pregnancy help centers, it's like, wait a second. You know, most women who get. Who abort their children never darken the doors of a pregnancy help center. Right, Right. Only the ones who are ambivalent about it or do that. The ones who already know what they're going to do, they don't go there. They just get the pills or they go to the clinics and they do it. And so. But what's it going to do when you outlaw it? And there's penalties attached to it now. Oh, wow. Now what do these centers offer? They offer prenatal care, they offer diapers, they offer help, they offer finances. All the things that someone who's going to keep their child because the law makes it illegal to murder them now needs those things. And so there's going to be more demand, there's going to be more of them going to these pregnancy help centers because guess what? They need help with their pregnancies that they are continuing. Right. And so this whole idea that it's going to somehow, you know, make women not go to these places is the exact opposite of what is happening and what will happen.

[Jeff Durbin]

That's what happens when you submit to and begin promulgating a fallacious form of reasoning. You. You get into these places like this where she's making arguments that just do not make sense. And I think you make a fantastic point there, Bradley. We'll end with, if this was criminalized in the state of South Dakota, if you had equal protection for all humans, and you could say to the women that come to you in these circumstances, one God calls this murder. Do not murder your child. We are here to help you. We love you. We want you to know Jesus. But also, it's not just God's word that says, this is murder. Our state calls it murder. And so the one thing that you do not want to do in this state is violate both God and the state, because if the state calls this murder, then they're going to pursue you. And so we're here to support you and help you. It's not an option. It's not an option. And we do not respect, we do not respect your choice to go ahead and go through with it, which is what that woman said. We will respect her decision, whatever. How do you say something like that and say that you stand for life, that everything in the womb from the moment of fertilization is human by very nature. Now there's much more in this hearing, so much more that we could do 10 episodes honestly responding to each and everything.

[Bradley Pierce]

But can I throw out one last thing?

[Jeff Durbin]

Yes, please do.

[Bradley Pierce]

This is just a little behind the scenes. So something that we hear later in this hearing is that one of the pro life leaders says 90% of the pro life movement is against this bill. And yet we talked with the legislators and one legislator told us that they got over 600 different pieces of communication that came to them about this bill. 40 of those were against it. That means 560 of those pieces of communication were for this bill. Right? There are only 40 against it. Most of them were for it. So whenever these pro life leaders say 90% of the pro life movement opposes, what they mean is 90% of the pro life establishment leaders, the pro life elites, they oppose this kind of legislation. But the actual grassroots individual mom and pop Christians, you know, bible believing Christians, when you talk to them, they support this.

[Jeff Durbin]

Yes.

[Bradley Pierce]

They think that this is what the pro life movement actually stands for. And so this hearing is another great opportunity to expose that that's not just not the case.

[Jeff Durbin]

That's an excellent point, Bradley. And I will just note to legislators who may watch this, that point that Bradley made is true. And we've seen it as true across states in this union. For every bill that we've put in, you're listening to pro life leaders and as Bradley said, elites, you're listening to them about the support that they have. The truth of the matter is this. Your voters, your voters, the people who actually vote for you and put you in office, clearly want this. The abolition of abortion. The pro life establishment and elites, they don't. And so in terms of practically speaking, who should you be listening to? One, God and his word. Two, Listen to your constituents. Listen to the people who are ringing your phone and sending you the messages. That is the sample size that you should be looking at. What do my constituents want? What do my voters want? What do the people that vote me into office want? Not what is this person in this organization that makes millions upon millions of dollars off of this industry? What do they want? Because all you have to do is listen to their suspicious forms of Reasoning to understand something is up, something is not right. So, Bradley, since I have you on, just briefly, can you tell everyone about your other organization that protects FAMIL from three. Three letter agencies? We always talk about you. We always talk about you, but now you're on. And so let's talk about that as a benefit to, to those watching right now.

[Bradley Pierce]

Yeah, absolutely. I'm also blessed to get to work with organization called Heritage Defense that defends. I, you know, I kind of view it as like the rear guard of the Christian family reformation movement in America here that we're here. If you, your parental rights come under attack, CPS shows up knocking on your door with some kind of false allegation of abuse or neglect, that we are there for you and your family to defend you. So you. So we have your back. So that way, you know, you have peace of mind knowing that as you're raising your children, you know, you're raising them up in the fear and admonition of the Lord that if you ever get falsely accused for doing that, then you're not alone. And so that's what we do with Heritage Defense. We've been doing that since 2010. And for Christian homeschooling families. We love all families, all Christian families, but it's. Our membership is narrowed to Christian homeschooling families. And so you can sign up and become a member and be able to contact an attorney 247 if your parental rights are under attack or if you just have questions, you can schedule a call with our attorney and anybody can actually go on our website for free. You don't even have to be a member and see what are the laws in your state about parental rights on dozens of different issues.

[Jeff Durbin]

Thank you, Bradley. All right, brother, I'm so glad you joined me today. I know you're probably tired. Thank you for the sacrifices. We're about to get more tired. I'm going to call you a little later today. Okay, brother? And talk to you about the press conference we got to do and then also the rally in Georgia. Okay. So I'll try to let you get some sleep or take a nap or whatever, but I'll call you. Just a quick phone call, okay?

[Bradley Pierce]

Okay. That was great.

[Jeff Durbin]

Thank you, brother, so much for joining us. Bless you, man. Thank you. All right, August, come here a second. I want to. I want to talk to you with everyone. So come over here. Come sit in my lap. Yeah, hop down. You might want to take off your. Your headset. You don't need that just to talk to me. Okay? So come on over here. Have a seat. It's convenient that you're with me today, actually. So everyone's watching right now. You know how you're on YouTube and everyone's. You're watching your shows? Well, we got a bunch of people watching us right now. They can see you right now. So you want to tell everyone your name? August. August. This is August. How old are you, August?

[Representative Randolph]

Six.

[Jeff Durbin]

Six years old. Six years old. August, do you remember how we told you what happened to you? What was wrong with your back? Remember that? What was wrong with your back? There's a big hole. There was a big hole in your back, right? Remember that? We told you about that. There was a big, big hole in your back and your spine was coming out of your back. Do you remember that? Yeah. And what. What did God do for you? Because the doctors all said that you had a big hole in your back and that you may not be able to walk and that your back would need to be fixed. But what did God. What did God do for you when you were born?

[Bradley Pierce]

Heal me.

[Jeff Durbin]

He what? He healed you. He healed your back. He went from a big hole in your back, and doctors saying that you may never walk and that something was really wrong and they needed to try to fix you. And then one day you came out and they looked at you and they went, wait a second. There's no hole. He's perfect. Everything's together. And so God healed you, right? Yeah. And so August is a testimony to one very important part of all this, is that many, many, many times children are diagnosed in the womb with issues, and they'll tell mothers and fathers, they'll say, you have to do something about this because your child has spina bifida, the worst stage of spina bifida, which is what August had, or your child has down syndrome, or your child has this issue or that issue, and the best thing for you to do is to end it. And so this industry comes after little boys like August, just like him. Him. We have to trust God in those moments, and we have to love and protect and preserve all human life because August's life is worth protecting. And many people, many, many people get into a situation like that, and they say, no, the best thing to do is just to take their life. I want to say that he's worthy of life. He was worthy of our protection then as much as now. And so what we have to do as Christians is recognize something very important, is that these babies that we're trying to defend, it's not just theory. They are real children like him named August. Real children. They all have names. God knows their names. And so I think it's important for us to continue to fight for it with that in mind. And so, everyone, if you would please go to endabortionnow.com please, again sign your church up there to go and save lives at the abortion mills and get the training and the free resources. Tens of thousands of babies have been saved as a result of that part of End Abortion Now. We want nothing from your church. We want to give everything away to you and prepare you and. And train you to do the work that so many are doing right now. Over a thousand churches, tens of thousands of babies saved because of that work. But also please go to End Abortion now and give there again. We didn't do a major fundraising drive this year, but we need you to help us to get to our goal so we can pull all this off. We can do this. We can train churches, we can save lives, and we can get these bills passed so that we establish justice one state at a time. And so thank you, everybody. I'm grateful for you, blessed to be a part of this with you. And I will catch you next week right here on Apollo Gia Radio. Thank you.