Archispeak Episode #351: Frank Lloyd Garbage

Hosts: Evan Troxel & Cormac Phalen
Date: November 11, 2024
Theme: Real-life experiences in architecture, design nerdery, office culture, project updates, and the quirks of architectural conferences.

Brief Overview

This episode kicks off with a humorous but deeply "architectural nerd" moment: Cormac's unboxing of limited edition Frank Lloyd Wright Blackwing pencils provokes a meditation on the collecting impulse and the legacy of revered figures in architecture (and their branded ephemera). The episode weaves together personal stories about office collaboration, the challenges and joys of adaptive reuse projects, user engagement in design, and field reports from industry conferences. Throughout, the hosts’ camaraderie, banter, and lived experience keep things both insightful and highly relatable for anyone in or adjacent to the world of architecture.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Frank Lloyd Wright Blackwing Pencils & "Architectural Nerdism"

• Unboxing the Pencils: Cormac shares his latest acquisition—Frank Lloyd Wright special edition Blackwing pencils—detailing their design, historic references (Cherokee Red), and cost, sparking self-awareness and jokes about architect-centric consumerism.

  • Memorable exchange:
    • Cormac: “Please leave them alone. Kids. Don’t touch my dang pencils.” (03:52)
    • Evan: “You gotta put them in your safe... your children have to deal with someday.”
    • Cormac: “Be like, chuck that.”
    • Evan: “They will chuck it.”
    • Cormac: “Frank Lloyd garbage.” (04:19)

• Show Title Origins: The phrase “Frank Lloyd garbage” emerges as a joke about the ephemerality of design memorabilia—what’s special to one generation may be tossed by the next.

2. Architecture Office Culture & Team Events

• Collaboration Day Recap: Cormac recounts his trip to Baltimore for a biannual (or “whenever it’s feasible”) all-office collaboration, featuring strategic discussions, retirements, and leadership transitions.

  • Notable quote:
    • Cormac: "There didn’t seem to be a shy voice in the audience... safe environments, actually." (24:16)
  • The importance of an open forum in an ESOP (employee-owned) structure, leading to robust, honest discussion about the firm’s direction.

• Pronunciation Woes: Humorous frustration over coworkers’ persistent mispronunciation of "Cormac," leading to a tale of 10 years’ worth of mistakes. (06:32-09:02)

3. Project Update: Adaptive Reuse at Johns Hopkins (Baltimore)

• Cormac discusses seeing his years-long adaptive reuse project in person, reflecting on the transformation from plans and VR models to real space.

  • Design Realities:
    • Anticipating a tight vestibule, but finding it “a lot bigger than I thought” (12:05).
    • The "gift that keeps on giving": designing generic lab spaces, then reprogramming each as user groups materialize, generating ongoing change orders. (17:53)
    • The peril and pleasure of periodic, not daily, site visits: “I actually love doing CA, but because I’m not... it’s been pretty amazing to actually see it... that detail worked.” (13:52)

• Programming vs. Reality:

  • User groups often describe how they think they work rather than how they actually use space, leading to surprises and design pivots:
    • Evan: "What users think they do and what they actually do are two completely different things." (19:23)
  • Resilience of institutional habits, and the flexibility (and code realities!) required to address evolving user needs.

4. Conference Life: Autodesk University & Field Trip to Geisel Library

• Evan’s Conference Recap:

  • Invited as “podcasting press” to Autodesk University in San Diego, Evan highlights the value of conference “field trips”— notably, a visit to Geisel (Dr. Seuss) Library at UCSD—a brutalist icon by William Pereira.
  • Memorable moment:
    • Evan: “The idea behind this building is... it’s like these hands… holding the books, because it’s a library.” (30:33)

• Brutalist Beauty—Geisel Library:

  • Extensive discussion of the library’s form, materiality, functional quirks, and how its “light for a brutalist” presence is enhanced by the setting and architectural expansions below ground.
  • Banter about hugging concrete and taking photos of architectural details with new iPhone features.
  • Notable perspective:
    • Evan: "It feels very light for a brutalist building." (38:38)
    • Cormac: "Probably one of the lightest feeling brutalist buildings I've ever seen." (38:41)
  • Observations on how 1970s, pre-AutoCAD building practices contrast with today’s tech—this structure was "pure, handcrafted, pure, hand-drawn... slide rules and everything else." (43:40)

5. On User-Modified Spaces & Realism in Design

• Discussion about how office, lab, and classroom users inevitably modify their spaces, sometimes against code or design intentions—a universal truth for architects.
  • Evan: “Once they move in, they change it all.” (22:05)
  • Advice: “If you’re going to get any pictures of this project, do it before the teacher moves in.” (22:08)

6. Emceeing a Strategic Dialog

• Cormac shares his experience co-moderating (with Caitlin Brady of "Architect Ed") a firm strategy session, using podcast skills for live, candid dialogue with leadership. (25:58-26:59)
  • The challenge and rewards of moving from private podcasting to public performance.
  • The enduring surprise that “I didn’t know you had a podcast!” even after 10 years.

7. Comparing Conferences: San Diego vs. Vegas (and Beyond)

• Logistics and feel of moving conferences out of Las Vegas; 2025 venue set for Nashville.

  • Evan: “Vegas definitely knows how to do conferences... muscle memory.” (49:39)
  • Cormac: “There's pros and cons... [other cities] give us opportunity to learn different architectures.” (49:48)

• Conference session critiques: The problem of overreliance on teleprompters, with some keynotes feeling “robotic” and poorly delivered. (51:30-53:09)

8. Personal Anecdotes: Long Projects, Road Trips, and Architectural Mileage

• The saga of a project that started in 2016 and is still going:
  • Cormac: “This is honestly hands down the longest project I’ve ever worked on... some of our younger staff... have yet to experience another project.” (46:52)
• Long cross-state road trips post-conference; missing milestone odometer numbers; playful competition on “States Visited in 2024.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Frank Lloyd Wright Pencils Segment (00:35-04:25)
  • “Frank Lloyd garbage.” – Cormac (04:21)
• On Office Pronunciations & Name Woes (06:26-09:09)
  • “I might regain my name and its correct pronunciation.” – Cormac (07:30)
• On User Engagement
  • “What users think they do and what they actually do are two completely different things.” – Evan (19:23)
  • “Once they move in, they change it all.” – Cormac (22:05)
• On Adaptive Reuse
  • “It is very much an adaptive reuse. The largest our office has done at well over a half a million square feet.” – Cormac (13:00)
• On the Geisel Library
  • “This building remains in this iconic stature... expanded down and out underneath it.” – Evan (31:08)
  • “It feels very light for a brutalist building.” – Evan (38:38)
• On Architectural Conference Life
  • “Vegas definitely knows how to do conferences.” – Evan (49:39)
• On Long Projects
  • “You will never know another building in a world.” – Evan (47:22)
• On Conference Keynotes
  • “It was a little too much robotic reading.” – Evan (52:11)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |-----------------------------------------------------|--------------| | Blackwing Pencils & Frank Lloyd Wright | 00:08-04:31 | | Office Collaboration Day + Pronunciation Woes | 05:29-10:55 | | Project Updates: Adaptive Reuse, Programming | 11:04-17:53 | | User Needs vs. Reality Discussion | 18:01-22:56 | | All-Office Strategy & Emceeing Session | 23:01-26:59 | | Autodesk University, Geisel Library field trip | 27:42-43:41 | | Conference Logistics & Comparing Cities | 47:38-50:32 | | Long Projects & Young Architects' Perspective | 46:52-47:17 | | Road Trips, Odometer Stories, and Travel Homework | 55:25-60:35 |

Tone & Style

Casual, witty, tangibly nerdy, and self-aware. The hosts blend deep professional insight with irreverent asides about the realities of architectural passion, the humbling surprises of practice, and the endless joys (and headaches) of architecture culture.

For New Listeners…

This episode is a window into what it’s actually like to live and breathe architecture—quirks, pride, frustrations, inside jokes, and hard-earned wisdom included. If you’re curious about architecture’s daily realities, or if you love the intersection of nerdy details and wandering philosophical conversation, this episode is for you.

Listen Next Time…

• Architecture as a lifelong journey
• More tales of adaptive reuse, user engagement, and designing for change
• The final verdict on “states visited” in 2024

Find more at archispeakpodcast.com

“It’s easy… to dump on projects that take a long time. But honestly, it’s been kind of exciting. And maybe because I’m not in the day-to-day CA... but seeing it periodically as it evolves, it’s been pretty amazing.” – Cormac (14:30)