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- [00:09]
A
You're way more organized than I am.
- [00:12]
B
Yeah.
- [00:12]
A
I'm like, yeah. So what did, what did we see? What. What did we do? I can't. It's. This is how. Like, this was a week ago. What do you expect?
- [00:22]
B
Actually closing in up. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, we're closing in on two weeks.
- [00:28]
A
I know. Yeah. What? It's been a blur since I've been back. I've had to go to a graduation, a commissioning ceremony, which included lots of driving and just tons of stuff to catch up at. At the house with work, but also just at the house. Oh, my gosh. Just so many things.
- [00:47]
B
Yeah. And I came home assuming that the lawn would have been attended to. It wasn't.
- [00:55]
A
Why did I laugh? Oh, it looks just like we left it, except worse. Yeah, that's.
- [01:02]
B
Yeah. No, I, I, I mowed the grass the day before we hit the road. And assuming that. Okay, it won't be too bad when it comes back. Well, it rained and, you know, grew pretty quickly.
- [01:17]
A
What's that?
- [01:18]
B
You would think that as people would walk outside the house, they say, oh, wow, grass looks bad.
- [01:26]
A
Maybe it's like they get paid not to notice. It's, It's. What is it? What is it with the kids these days? I'm shaking my fist at the clouds right now.
- [01:37]
B
Yes.
- [01:38]
A
Yeah.
- [01:41]
B
Plenty of them right now. It's pretty overcast.
- [01:44]
A
It is here, too. Yeah. We might get a little rain today and tomorrow. We'll see. That would be nice. It would be very nice. It's so dry. There was a. In the last couple days, a big fire erupted about 11 miles away. It's at 470 acres. It's 30% contained. So it's not, like, really big on west coast standards yet, which is of thousands of acres. That's a big fire.
- [02:08]
B
It's big enough when it's only 10 miles away from you. It is.
- [02:11]
A
And it's. It's, you know, threatening for sure. It's just one. It's like. And it's what I would still call, like, early in the season for that kind of a thing, so a little scary.
- [02:21]
B
What was interesting is while we were gone in Boston at the convention, there was the Canadian wildfires that were affecting the air quality here. Right. And so it was. They said it was pretty hazy and looked, you know, pretty rough. So we don't usually get affected by wildfires because there's nothing wild left other than the people here. But we do get a lot of haze and air quality issues. Yeah.
- [02:50]
A
So what did we do? A week and a Half, two weeks ago.
- [02:53]
B
We did a lot.
- [02:55]
A
Yeah, we did a lot. Just judging by my camera roll, which is the new timeline, right? Like that's the, that's the timeline of events and receipts and capturing everything.
- [03:06]
B
Well, most of the time. And so what I'm doing is I'll like, look. Oh, I want to, you know, look, I, I, I went and I went here. And then I'm sitting there and I'll have to like scroll and scroll and keep scrolling till I can find. I mean, it's just like, dang, I took a lot of pictures.
- [03:23]
A
Yeah. And what's funny is like, we just don't clean up after ourselves in there, Right. You don't delete the bad stuff because it's like they're free. I don't know what the. I don't. Maybe there are people out there who really meticulously kind of curate photo. I should library better than I do.
- [03:42]
B
I should. Because, you know, it's like, here's a picture of MIT library or sorry, chapel. And then here's one right next to it. Right next to it. Same one.
- [03:52]
A
Slightly crooked.
- [03:53]
B
Slight, slightly crooked. You know, not adjusted lightwise and things like that. And so I'm like, why do I still have that one in my camera roll?
- [04:05]
A
But then again. So here's the funny thing. Yesterday I went to a little car show that is an annual Datsun roadster car show in Mount Shasta, California. And I took my oldest son who shoots film. He's got a medium format dual lens reflex camera. It's really cool. Yashika. It's like a Japanese model. I think we probably talked about it a little bit. But he, he gets more conversations at car shows about his camera than he does about the cars, Right? So because he's shooting film and it's 12 shots per roll. And he got the rolled from last year when we went to the car show. We actually did two car shows and he got them both shot on film. One was the Studebaker show in South Dakota that we went to, and then one was the Datsun Roaster show. And he made this comment because he gets 12 shots, right? And sometimes he's like really sparingly kind of going around looking for the angles. But yesterday it was different. He was just like, I'm going to get 12 shots, like in the next five minutes. And I thought that was interesting. And because the lighting was really good, it was like golden hour. And he was like, I got to take advantage of this quickly and shoot a whole roll here. But what he said was when he got the film back from the developer, he sends it down to LA to get it developed, and then it shows up in the mail. And he's like, every shot was a banger. And he likes that about shooting film because he's. So he uses his iPhone as a light meter. Right. So that's his light meter. And then he uses that because everything's manual on the Yashika camera. And so he sets it all up, takes his time to, like, frame the picture and then snaps it off and then finds other angles. And he's like, every one of them is good because he takes the time for setup. Whereas, like, with us looking through a phone or through our camera, like, oh, I can, like, we take the picture, then we look at it, then we make an adjustment, and then we shoot three more, right?
- [06:04]
B
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Or you take the shot that you think is pretty close to what you want, and then, you know, you've got the opportunity afterwards to do a little bit of post production and fix it the way I'm not.
- [06:19]
A
And I get less and less.
- [06:21]
B
Go ahead.
- [06:22]
A
I do less and less pro post production nowadays. I'm just like, here's the picture.
- [06:26]
B
Yeah. I mean, the only thing that I do is because I personally like slightly more saturated photos that the. I can set when I'm taking the photograph. I can set the camera to that. More vibrant is, I guess.
- [06:46]
A
Oh, like the mode. Yeah. Okay, so here's. Here's my pro tip. Cormac, you want my pro tip?
- [06:51]
B
Ooh, please.
- [06:52]
A
In the camera app. Okay, so I'm talking on iPhone, I don't know, whatever. IOS. This is the latest ish. There is a profile that you can set. It's an upper right corner button. And I have mine set to the amber profile.
- [07:11]
B
Amber profile.
- [07:12]
A
And I have my tone at minus 28, my color at 19, and my palette at 100. And I have it set up in the camera app, where that's my. That gets applied to every photo by default. And obviously you can change it out of that later if you want to, but that is a slightly warmer, maybe slightly. I don't know, the saturation is. It's good like this. You want me to say those numbers again?
- [07:46]
B
You know what?
- [07:47]
A
Did you catch it?
- [07:48]
B
I'm just telling you right now, you're on film, so. Or you're on. You've been recorded. I'm pretty sure.
- [07:56]
A
Yeah, I have been recorded. You can reverse. So here we are. Let's see if it can focus. If I move my face out of the way. There we go. So you can see that little. That box at the bottom of the screen.
- [08:09]
B
Yeah. Oh, I.
- [08:10]
A
That's where the grid positioning is for those numbers, because you can't set those numbers manually, but you kind of have to use your big fat meat finger to get those numbers where you want them.
- [08:23]
B
See if it'll focus. B.
- [08:25]
A
There you go.
- [08:26]
B
Yeah. Now I do the same thing. I just haven't set.
- [08:32]
A
You gotta set it in the camera app, I think, to, like, go to that profile every time. That, to me, gets me without having to go in and do that editing process for the most of the time. That's a really good daylight setting for me. I wouldn't. I probably wouldn't use it in every situation, but like I said, you only get it. You only get to apply it, yes or no. And then you can always remove it or change it later. There's your pro tip. Pro camera tip.
- [08:57]
B
So everyone,
- [09:00]
A
let me know what you think. Let me know what you think about those numbers.
- [09:02]
B
Try to try those settings, see what you think about them.
- [09:06]
A
Yeah, I think I started maybe with. I like gold and amber. I like those two as kind of starting points. And then I tweak them to go from there for, like, normal, you know, photography.
- [09:16]
B
Yeah.
- [09:17]
A
Anyway, so where did we go? What did we do? What do we. Back to the. Back to the. So this is my first east coast trip to this location. So I went. I went to New York, and then I've been to New York before, but then my first time to Boston, and it was. It was. I think maybe this episode. We just talk about kind of the general AIA conference, and. But I see us kind of having lots of episodes about the things that we actually got to experience that were not the AIA conference, but still, like, absolutely foundational to being an architect.
- [09:52]
B
Oh, yeah, absolutely. The soul enriching things.
- [09:56]
A
Yes, soul enriching. I felt that for sure. So, yeah, my first trip to Boston. And so I went to the ARCOL launch, which is a software company, and they're creating kind of early conceptual 3D modeling. And I don't know, I don't have their elevator pitch, like, burned into my head.
- [10:16]
B
You know what's funny about you going to that Arkhole thing? Because you left this behind, but I still have it.
- [10:23]
A
You've got the swag.
- [10:24]
B
Well, the swag of the ARCOL thing. So they're creating all of this, you know, nice digital support stuff.
- [10:31]
A
Right.
- [10:32]
B
But giving away pencils, colored pencils.
- [10:35]
A
Yeah, that was cool.
- [10:39]
B
I mean, I. You're not getting it. Back. I have two boxes.
- [10:42]
A
I know, I know you're not sending it to me. It's okay.
- [10:46]
B
I now have two boxes of it.
- [10:48]
A
But yeah, so check out, check out my LinkedIn feed if you want to kind of see what the. What the Arkle event. There's many posts about it, not from me necessarily, but from others and I've been reposting their stuff. But the successful launch, they actually went live. It's available for everyone to use arcol IO arcol IO and like I said, it's kind of early stage contextual modeling. Programming what I would call Jello cube, program modeling, stacking, adjacency stacking but also tracking the numbers and giving you multi user support. People can all get in there and work on the same project at the same time if you want to. And it does layout boards and it's live. So what's cool is it's like a early phase 3D modeling study, app feasibility. But it also does presentations and it's all live link so you don't have to like export PDFs to InDesign or to Illustrator and to do that whole rigamarole of back and forth and what's the latest version and all that stuff. It's all live, so it's. And then you can just go into presentation mode and it's all in the browser, all on the web and so you don't have to install a piece of software to use it and you get the updates as they roll out, which is really cool. But like I said, multiple people can work on the same project the same time, leave comments, mark things up. So it's kind of a collapsing a bunch of apps into one, which is great interface. It's really cool. Yeah.
- [12:09]
B
Because as you know, we always keep talking about one of the things that we're looking for is kind of like the ability to kind of consolidate all of these different workflows into something that's a lot more user friendly. Right.
- [12:21]
A
And user friendly and it doesn't lose data like every time you export that stuff you're always wondering, like I said, is this the latest version? Was this the latest floor plan? Is this the latest massing model? And when those views are live, it gives you that reassurance.
- [12:35]
B
You mean the final. Final? Final. Final.
- [12:37]
A
Final. Final five Beef. No, really, this time final.
- [12:40]
B
Exactly.
- [12:41]
A
Yeah.
- [12:41]
B
No, seriously, this is the final.
- [12:45]
A
Yeah. If you're not good with file naming, these are the apps for you. Exact.
- [12:51]
B
You went from Portland to New York
- [12:53]
A
for coal launch and I don't live in Portland. So yeah, we actually drove to Portland for the weekend before flew out of Portland, my wife drove home alone. I went back to New York. So Portland's like a six hour drive.
- [13:07]
B
How was the, the new airport or the new, the new terminal?
- [13:11]
A
Beautiful. Yeah. That was zgf, am I correct?
- [13:15]
B
Yes. Yeah. I've got a friend who is there. So PM on that.
- [13:19]
A
That is a gorgeous, gorgeous terminal. Absolutely amazing. I would love to spend more time there. Although I really don't care for airports that much. But that was like probably the number one airport experience that I've had.
- [13:32]
B
Was it you that I was having this conversation with? Because I know I was having a conversation with someone and you know, about spending, you know, gobs of money and stuff on airport terminals and all of this other stuff and it wasn't me,
- [13:45]
A
but I think I, I think I overheard a little bit of like what it's like, why do people spend so much money on airport terminals? Basically, it's like this transactional process. Right.
- [13:53]
B
But I mean, it's just, it's. This is the introduction to what most people who quite possibly have never traveled to say, Portland or wherever, this is their first introduction to the. That place.
- [14:06]
A
It's the gateway to the city.
- [14:08]
B
Exactly. I mean, and I've been through multiple different airports throughout the world and was completely blown away by the airport in Doha, you know, Dubai. These are some amazing spaces that, you know, you're just. This is the first introduction to. Let's just take the ZGF Portland one because getting rave reviews, everybody loves it. You know, you're having like all of these different, you know, mass timber conferences that are featuring this and it's putting Portland not just on them. I mean, people know Portland for Pacific Northwest and you know, their connection to the environment and everything else. And this is just putting that face to what, putting the money where the mouth is. Right.
- [14:56]
A
I think it's, it's like it's a value statement for a city.
- [15:00]
B
Yeah, yeah, it could be. I mean, it could be because I mean, let's be honest, there's a couple of airports that you fly into to the greater New York area that you're just like, where am I?
- [15:13]
A
Or well, and it's a tool in that regard. Right. It's like a way to move people in and out and get them connected to other transit or whatever. And so it does that. Right. But yeah, it's. So the theme of that ARCOL event was called Bringing the Magic Back to Design. And this airport to me is an attempt at bringing the magic back to Air travel, because I think of it as a departure, because for me, that's how I experienced it. I left Portland going through it. I didn't come into Portland that way. And so it wasn't really my introduction to Portland, and it hasn't been. Although I have flown into Portland. My first time into Portland was a flight, but this wasn't the terminal that I went to when I landed. Or maybe it was under construction because it was years and years ago. But the. Bringing the magic back, like air travel has lost a lot of magic, right?
- [16:04]
B
Absolutely.
- [16:04]
A
It is the lowest common denominator of travel now. Like, taking the train is a luxury compared to air travel. Right. I mean, who. Who. Who does. I mean, maybe there's some. So, like, I've. I've taken a few flights where it's like, they actually treat you well. Like Qantas. Flying to Australia was absolutely. Was great. But most air travel is like, it's just a function of getting you there without dying. Right. It's like. It's like how. Just barely above that.
- [16:35]
B
Yeah, there's.
- [16:37]
A
And so I hope that some of the magic of this terminal starts to work its way back into the flight. Right. It's just squeezing as many people into the flying can as well.
- [16:47]
B
The cattle carring. It is. Yeah.
- [16:49]
A
It's brutal.
- [16:50]
B
So if you think about it, when the kind of, like, height of air travel was. And you know, you had like the TWA terminal, you know, you had like in Dulles and all of these other
- [17:01]
A
ones, people used to get dressed up to go for a flight. And there was, like, lounges on airplanes and there was smoking and.
- [17:09]
B
Yeah.
- [17:10]
A
There was hanging living rooms.
- [17:12]
B
There was a leg room. There wasn't like, people like me, who. Paying that 15 extra to check in, you know, to do my 15 is
- [17:21]
A
a deal to do my early bird
- [17:23]
B
check in so that I can get on my Southwest flight early enough.
- [17:28]
A
Yeah.
- [17:29]
B
So that I.
- [17:29]
A
Can you pick your seat?
- [17:30]
B
Because I can get to the. Because I don't care, honestly.
- [17:34]
A
You want an exit row?
- [17:35]
B
I want an exit row because I want the leg room. And I do that every time. It's just like. And then I get like, somebody, like, got in front of me. Thank you.
- [17:43]
A
They've monetized legroom. I mean, that tells you everything you need to know right there. Yeah. So I just hope some of that magic of. Of what they're doing in the. In the architectural landscape makes its way back to the airplanes. I know that's a lot to ask,
- [17:56]
B
but that highly unlikely.
- [17:57]
A
Incredible. Yeah. So anyway, that Was great. And then so, yeah, then a non stop flight to JFK and then a air train and then the subway into the city and then to the event. And it was like, literally got to my room, put down my bags, walked to the event. And it had already started, so it was just like nonstop. And I didn't get to rest until maybe the next day on the train when I got on a train out of Penn Station. And you were like, ew, Penn Station. Ugh. But not that Penn State. It was the better.
- [18:32]
B
The newer, the newer, the newer side.
- [18:34]
A
The newer Penn Station. And yeah, I did. I. I was thinking of Louis Kahn when I was there.
- [18:41]
B
You know, I mean, I, you know, I jokingly, you know, say every time I go through Penn Station, I kind of mutter under my breath, Louis, I get it. I understand why.
- [18:53]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It took it all out of him, literally.
- [18:59]
B
It's just like, you know, although. Yeah.
- [19:02]
A
Oh, man.
- [19:03]
B
And so. Yeah, well.
- [19:04]
A
So what's the story of Louis Kahn? Cormic, Just for those who don't know,
- [19:07]
B
for those of you who don't know, Louis Khan on his last trip from India back to this. The States. He was. Came back in through New York and was going to get the train from Penn Station to Pennsylvania to Philadelphia. And he died in a Penn Station bathroom.
- [19:27]
A
Bathroom, yeah. In a bathroom stall.
- [19:29]
B
Yeah.
- [19:30]
A
Oh, what a way to go.
- [19:31]
B
Yeah. I. Seeing the complexity, seeing the unnecessary complexity of travel in and out of Penn Station, I kind of get it.
- [19:48]
A
Like, you know, I've always said, I want, I want a 3D model. Like, I could. They could do this with scanning nowadays. I want a 3D model of the New York underground. I think it would be incredible to see the complexity and, you know, maybe the unnecessary complexity, as you call it. Right? Or maybe it's the necessary complexity.
- [20:07]
B
I don't know.
- [20:07]
A
Well, but it would be absolutely incredible to see the earth peel away and just have a model of all of that what's going on underground.
- [20:17]
B
I think it would be, it would be, it would be like, have you seen those sculptures? You know, we have one in a building that I did down in Florida where this professor from that, who's studying ant biology and the communal aspect of ants, he did a sculpture where he took molten aluminum and poured it down into a carpenter ant. And so then, then he, you know, then he dug it all away and saw all of the interconnectedness of the colony and everything else and just like the intricate construction that they did and how much of it there was. I mean, and it Looks like if you were to kind of like hold a. I don't know, like a jellyfish and seal, like all of the tentacles and everything else, it looked like that. And I can almost bet that probably if you like peeled away all of that stuff and just isolated the New York underground, that's probably what you would see.
- [21:16]
A
I think most people think the experience of the New York subway system is like one level deep.
- [21:20]
B
Oh, yeah, I know, but.
- [21:22]
A
But you go into a station like Penn Station, and you realize, wow, there is a lot. There are so many levels to this going. It's like mining, but for normal pedestrians. It's really crazy.
- [21:34]
B
So then you took a train and.
- [21:37]
A
That's right, I took the train to New Haven, Connecticut.
- [21:40]
B
And why did you do that?
- [21:43]
A
I don't remember. It was like a two, two and a half hour train ride. First time into Connecticut. So this was my first time out of New York City to an adjacent state up there. And I went where you and your lovely wife picked me up and we went to see Hotel Marcel, where you got to stay. So tell us about the digs in hotel and what Hotel Marcel is.
- [22:10]
B
So what. What Hotel Marcel is. And so why I selfishly asked Evan to take a train from New York instead of me picking him up. Because we.
- [22:18]
A
Well, I. Driving into New York would have sucked too. We would have. There was many logistical issues that we had to figure out on this trip. And this was just like the first one.
- [22:26]
B
If you and I were still planning on trying to get to any events or anything like that in the evening of. What was it, Tuesday? I don't know. We would have never made it if I would have driven into the city regardless.
- [22:39]
A
Right, True, true.
- [22:40]
B
We would have probably spilled. You would have had a 3am Exactly. But when we left. So you, you know, went through your adventure of Portland to New York to all of the different mass transits and then out to New Haven. We drove for the purpose of not only driving to the conference, but also driving around looking at architecture as much as we could that weren't going to be in downtown where we could access it by either Uber or bus or walking or whatever. Hold. Hold up. Your.
- [23:15]
A
Do you have that page on your book?
- [23:17]
B
Yes. My, my.
- [23:18]
A
For those who are watching on YouTube, you can see Cormac's kind of itinerary of want to seize.
- [23:23]
B
Yes.
- [23:24]
A
On this page.
- [23:25]
B
So I called it the Boston Must seize if possible. And then I have on the other page, Yale must seize if possible. And so, you know, we started at Yale as. As you said, but so we drove through Canada, down through New York, and stayed at the Hotel Marcel. And for those of you who are not in the know of what Hotel Marcel is, Hotel Marcel is a repurposed adaptive reuse building that ikea, of all people, bought and did some modifications so that they could fit their. Their lovely surface parking into, you know, their store.
- [24:03]
A
What does that mean? What does modifications mean?
- [24:05]
B
Yeah, they lopped half the building off so that they could, you know, have a parking lot.
- [24:10]
A
Oh, my gosh.
- [24:11]
B
Yeah. So what was left over was this, you know, beautiful pedestal. The tower of what was formerly the Armstrong Rubber, then Pirelli Rubber Tire and Rubber buildings. So it was an office building before. Beautiful modernist building. We'll have some photographs in the show notes and also link. Really?
- [24:32]
A
You call it modernist? Is that what it is? I don't know.
- [24:35]
B
No. Did I say modernist? I didn't mean modernist.
- [24:37]
A
You did. Real time follow up. Here you go.
- [24:39]
B
Real time follow up. The brutalist.
- [24:43]
A
There you go.
- [24:43]
B
Building. And it. It's incredibly amazing. The light and shadow play and everything else. And, you know, we'll give some links to my Instagram page that, you know, shows some of the photographs that I took. And probably if Evan took any photos and posted. If not, then, you know, you'll just look at mine.
- [25:05]
A
I didn't post anything at all yet, but I think I. Your pictures were great, so I don't need to repost. It was the same angle that you shot.
- [25:12]
B
Yeah. Except for mine was bad because, you
- [25:14]
A
know, you had better lighting that day. I don't know. Yeah, it was. It was beautiful. And I can't help but think that lopping off that half of the single story pedestal is a bad idea from a compositional standpoint. Oh, yeah, man. It looks like it's top heavy. Right. For sure. And I don't think it probably used to feel like that because it was proportioned.
- [25:37]
B
Now it's. It's like this. Right. But it used to be like this, you know?
- [25:41]
A
Yeah, it used to. Yeah. In elevation. It used to be an L with the long leg on the ground.
- [25:46]
B
Yes.
- [25:47]
A
And so I'm. I'm speaking to the audio listeners right now for you, Mr. Sign Language on
- [25:52]
B
the screen, talking with my hands.
- [25:56]
A
So there's this big, heavy, floating concrete cube on the short leg of the L just floating in the air. And because there's this whole. I hate even to say soft story, there's just a missing floor right in the building. It's so cool.
- [26:13]
B
Yeah.
- [26:13]
A
There's the two columns, which are like the vertical Circulation on the ends of that, holding it up in the air. Talk about just like anti gravity structural systems. Exactly. So cool.
- [26:25]
B
You look at the massing, the weight of this thing and you just like, how.
- [26:31]
A
Yeah, how? And so now the only pedestal that's left is directly under that floating cube. So it really feels kind of weird. I mean, I think it probably just made more sense from a reading architecture point of view for more uninformed people. Like, okay, like that it feels a little over. I don't know, like. Like it could just topple. Yeah, it's not going to. Right.
- [26:54]
B
Well, the interesting thing is, is that compositionally, if I encourage everybody to kind of take a look at the link to the. The photograph that I took, compositionally, it looks, as you said, very heavy. And. But it also looks like, as brutalist buildings do, it looks so gravity defying that. I think that's the thing that intrigued me the most about it is just like, how.
- [27:17]
A
How. Yeah, how? You know, and it doesn't look like it should work. And. And I don't think you've mentioned the architect yet. Maybe you did, but I missed it. But.
- [27:24]
B
Well, sort of a giveaway in the name for those of you who know
- [27:28]
A
Marcel, for those who are on a first name basis.
- [27:30]
B
Yeah, yeah, Marcel. You know, you know your buddy Marcel.
- [27:33]
A
Marcel.
- [27:33]
B
Marcel Breuer.
- [27:34]
A
Right.
- [27:35]
B
Who interestingly enough, we have. And we've talked about this on the show in the past, you know, I. That I am unfamiliar with a lot of his work, but it's interesting to see that particular building in the building that's in my town that was designed by him that is brick and glass. Very modernist. So it's modernist Marcel versus Brutal Marcel. Wait, versus Modernist Marcel or Brutalist Breuer. There you go. Better.
- [28:03]
A
There you go. Nice alliteration.
- [28:05]
B
Exactly, exactly. So. But. And so it's just this interesting to see the. The development from. And what's interesting is the building in my town is actually newer than that building. So it's almost like he returned to his kind of modernist roots when he did the Grosse Pointe Public Library.
- [28:29]
A
Maybe Grosse Pointe was like, absolutely no brutalism here. Maybe they were just like. Maybe they just said, no, you want
- [28:35]
B
to do a building, you're going to do it. You know, you will do brick.
- [28:40]
A
How many architects have ever gotten that kind of. Yeah, absolutely. It happens all the time. No, it's got to look like this.
- [28:45]
B
Exactly. Oh, you want to work.
- [28:47]
A
You have to figure out how to make it.
- [28:48]
B
Do you want this job? Well, guess what? Collegiate Gothic, for You.
- [28:52]
A
Exactly, exactly. So what was it like staying there?
- [28:56]
B
You know, I was impressed as an adaptive reuse.
- [29:00]
A
Right? I mean, like you said, this was an office building before.
- [29:03]
B
I was very impressed at how very sensitive architecturally, interiors wise, they were to the existing building. From what I understand, they've got a bunch of plans up on the wall of what the building used to be. And so you look at it and you see that for the most part, they kept the rigor of the modules of offices and things like that. I also kind of think of is if those were the offices or if it. If roughly, the layout of the offices as shown by the layout of the bedrooms for the hotel are. Man, that's very rigorous.
- [29:45]
A
Seriously big?
- [29:46]
B
No.
- [29:46]
A
Big.
- [29:47]
B
No, they weren't big. They were, you know, they were pretty much average size.
- [29:51]
A
I would assume it would be super rigorous. Like, was Marcel a big. I mean, maybe.
- [29:55]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [29:56]
A
Tell me about Marcel and plan.
- [29:58]
B
He was.
- [29:59]
A
Or was he on the grid?
- [30:00]
B
He was on the grid. He was both. He really was both. You know, it all just really depends. I mean, what was interesting about everything that I've been reading in the. About the Bauhaus, and he and Gropius specifically, they. They helped evolve the free plan. As much as, you know, they were also guys to the grid. I mean, you think about even. Even Mies still on the grid, but still very much a free plan. So. Yeah, yeah, you know, but being nice, beautiful interiors. Very respectful of the period. Very respectful of, like, his style. I did not look up who did the renovations, but I do want to find out who was. And maybe on the next episode I can give him a little shout out because they did. Yeah, they did a fantastic job. Very, very sensitive to the style and the feel of it. It did not feel like it wasn't that building all the time, you know, so it was so well done. And so thank you to you for accommodating me and my wife staying there by. You would have had to have taken an Uber from New York to Boston if you said no.
- [31:15]
A
But I could have taken the train all the way to Boston.
- [31:19]
B
You could have taken the train, but it was. It was.
- [31:21]
A
No, this was a great place to stop. I didn't get to go inside, but yeah, as soon as I got in the car with you guys, we went back to the hotel.
- [31:28]
B
Yeah.
- [31:28]
A
And you're like, you gotta see it. So we did. Because it was right by the train station.
- [31:32]
B
Exactly. And then. And then, of course, we started our journey to Boston, but it had to include a couple of stops so.
- [31:41]
A
So real quick, before. Before we go on, I think we're gonna. We're not gonna go in depth about the stuff that we're. The projects that we got to visit in this episode. I think that was probably the most in depth. We'll get around Hotel Marcel for this episode because there' ground we need to cover, but then we'll come back and do that. But I just want to maybe take a little bit of a moment here to talk about this idea of. Okay, so how many architects do you think who went to the AIA conference, the National AIA Conference on Architecture? 2025 in Boston. Just went to Boston and then just popped back out of Boston without doing all of this other stuff like we're talking about. So. And because the reason I bring this up is because it took a little extra effort.
- [32:25]
B
Yeah.
- [32:26]
A
Cormac's list right there is long of the projects that we're the want to see, if possible, and we got to see quite a few of them. Right. I don't know if you've checked a percentage.
- [32:35]
B
60%. We saw 60% of the list, and that's actually pretty impressive.
- [32:40]
A
That's pretty good. Because they're not localized to the city.
- [32:44]
B
They're not just, like, clustered in one spot where we can go and walk around. We. It took effort to get there, to go there and to see them. You know, things like. You know, we drove out to, like, Outskirts and things like that. So. And you.
- [32:58]
A
You rented a car, right?
- [32:59]
B
You.
- [33:00]
A
You drove with your wife from Detroit, not a short drive to pull all this off, which gave us the ability to go out and do all this other stuff, which. Okay, so now it's my turn to thank you for being, like, so amazing at figuring that out and doing it. And like, that, to me, is what made the trip. It made the trip way more than the conference was doing all that other stuff. And so I bring it up because it's like, it took extra effort, but, man, was it worth it, like, to do all of that stuff, especially for me, who have never been to that side of that part of the country and get to experience those kinds of places that I'd only seen on literal slides in my architectural history class or on the Internet since then. Right. It's so never having had the opportunity to explore the places that we're talking about today. And so I guess I just. So the older I get, the less tolerance I have to do this kind of logistical planning. Right. Like, I literally leave it to the last minute. You're like, what if you took a train to New Haven. And I'm like, I'll figure it out the day before if I. If I can.
- [34:06]
B
Yeah.
- [34:07]
A
And I just don't have the time or the patience to kind of. And this I'm excited for. AI Agents. AI Travel agents, especially, like, figure this crap out for me, because I don't have the time or the patience to do it. And we'll see how that works out. But was so worth it. It was so worth doing that to make this trip what it ended up being. So anyway, I just wanted to take a minute to kind of talk about that because. Yeah, it's way extra effort. I'll just say it. It's a way extra effort, but it's way extra payoff, too.
- [34:38]
B
Yeah. I mean, because you and I have talked about this on numerous occasions about the importance of travel and experiencing new places as part of the enrichment of our experience and our education and our ongoing education as architects so that we can understand what are other people doing out there? What.
- [34:57]
A
Remember why we do what we do? Like, why did we go into this? I think it was. It was equal parts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have to also bring up here in this part. Cormac, the thing that I heard you start to say at this location that you never stopped saying after. Okay, all right.
- [35:16]
B
What?
- [35:17]
A
Cormac's famous two words on this trip. I was like, oh, I'm gonna get this printed on a shirt for Cormac. Shadow play. Shadow play. Shadow play. Shadow play.
- [35:28]
B
Thanks, man.
- [35:29]
A
This is where the shadow play started. But it's true, like, the facade of this building is absolutely incredible because of the depth and the shadows that in the shadow. And I bet, like, if you could just watch this building all day long and get, like, really cool views of it, I could.
- [35:45]
B
I, I.
- [35:46]
A
You definitely could.
- [35:47]
B
I could sit there and set up a time lapse and go through a nice sunny day.
- [35:52]
A
My frame.
- [35:53]
B
Correct.
- [35:54]
A
Would watch that. Do you see what just happened right there? This is like, Yeah, a documentary. It's just one camera angle. Maybe it's multiple camera angles just switching back and forth, watching the shadows move across the building all day with. With just some cool soundtrack with my
- [36:08]
B
little floating head in there.
- [36:09]
A
Just, you know, cormix reaction video.
- [36:13]
B
Look how the. Look how the door disappeared because of the shadows.
- [36:18]
A
Right.
- [36:19]
B
Thanks. Appreciate that.
- [36:21]
A
Yep, yep, yep. Yeah, I was paying attention.
- [36:23]
B
But yes, you're right. It totally did not. And then, of course, you know, some of the other buildings that we'll be talking about later is, like, the strength of those buildings. All right, so we got to. To Boston. So fast forward.
- [36:36]
A
So then we drove to Boston. Yeah, we got some pizza on the way too. I wouldn't call it like Boston pizza, but it was, it was good pizza.
- [36:43]
B
So we were outside of New Haven, so it wasn't quite New Haven. It was still tavern style, but it wasn't New Haven style pizza, which is, you know, a little bit more crispier. Brick oven, brick fired, you know. And so unfortunately we didn't get that. Although people were trying to convince me to come out and once we got to Boston and come out and have some pizza, I have never in my life heard Boston being famous for pizza at all. And so anybody listening that might be from Boston and think that I'm full of it, I'm more than happy to come back and have some pizza with you.
- [37:18]
A
Change my mind.
- [37:19]
B
But I kind of politely declined because I wasn't. Well, one, we were at an event, but two, I wasn't quite convinced that pizza in Boston go well together. Funny.
- [37:34]
A
I mean, I heard good things about it too, but we didn't get to try it. Not that we just didn't.
- [37:38]
B
I mean, you got New York style, New Haven, Detroit, Chicago, but Boston, I
- [37:45]
A
mean, question mark, maybe?
- [37:47]
B
Question.
- [37:47]
A
Yeah, I don't know. So. So from there. Yeah, like you said, we got to Boston and Boston is not what I thought. Like, okay, so there's. So I guess this is the next thing we talk about. There's like this idea that I had of what Boston looks like, which there are parts of Boston that look like that and then there's like the part of Boston that just looks everywhere. This new part. What do they call this? South harbor or whatever?
- [38:15]
B
Yeah, I think it was something like that.
- [38:17]
A
You got to pull up the map.
- [38:19]
B
Yeah, harbor.
- [38:20]
A
It was, it was like old South Seattle.
- [38:24]
B
Old South Boston.
- [38:25]
A
Yeah. So what did it look like to you? It looked like Seattle to me.
- [38:29]
B
It looks. Honestly, unfortunately, it looked like every other, you know, large scale development area.
- [38:35]
A
Developer driven.
- [38:36]
B
It's very developer driven architecture. And the thing that somewhat disappointed me about that particular area, we were talking about the area around the conference center, that it was old South Boston. And now that that grid of old South Boston is somewhat scrubbed clean. And now it is very much kind of like these crystalline towers of glass and steel. And it doesn't. To me, it didn't speak like this
- [39:06]
A
was Boston the beautiful, because we talked about genius loci. Genius loci in our last episode or two episodes ago. And that the spirit of the place. Right. And so what you're saying is it didn't evoke the spirit of the place.
- [39:20]
B
So the, the thing that I love about the east coast and east coast cities are, is when you go from say D.C. to Baltimore to Philly to New York to Boston and all of the other ones in between and all the way up to Portland, Maine, they all have, there are characteristics that are strictly east coast, but each one of them seem to have a very different, very unique, I'm only in Boston, I'm only in New York kind of feel. And if you were to pick somebody up and drop them just into that area around the conference center in, in Boston, they would never know that they were in Boston. They would, it would actually be. You would feel like you were just in kind of like anywhere usa. Now if you go into the old downtown or Back Bay or the North End and all of this other stuff, yes, you absolutely feel like you're in Boston. And you know, thankfully, having a car and being able to get out and get around you, you could, you could definitely feel that's Boston. And so I don't want to sound like I'm overly critical saying that, you know, Boston doesn't feel like Boston.
- [40:36]
A
New parts of Boston don't feel like old parts of Boston.
- [40:38]
B
Exactly. Exactly. There is quite a disconnect in what you think of Boston. And when you're plopped into that particular location, you're not rewarded with a, an example of what Boston feels like.
- [40:51]
A
So what, what if you could characterize what it feels like because you, you and your wife got to spend more time in like the Back Bay area than I did. You had, you got to go out on a field trip, go to a base, do fun things, visit Trinity Church. Right.
- [41:04]
B
So hit a couple of Irish pubs, you know, things like that.
- [41:07]
A
Okay, so tell us what the, what that feels like so that for those of us who haven't gotten to experience that kind of get.
- [41:16]
B
So it feels like a city that's grown up and held onto its past. So you could see the evolution from pre colonial America to the evolution of architectural styles in evolution where they still held on to small masonry buildings, like you know, the row home and things like that, to then, you know, evolving into brick masonry, you know, like block size buildings to then to skyscrapers and high rises and stuff. But like the tapestry that you get when you have all of that together creates a completely different character. And you know this from, you know, being in New York City, that it still feel there are so many different architectural styles stitched together in New York City. That it still feels like New York City. And there.
- [42:08]
A
There isn't a spot in New York City where it's like they mowed it all down and started over. And that's how this new area in Boston really feels like.
- [42:16]
B
Exactly. And so the older part, you know, like you go across the bay into downtown Boston, it feels like Boston. It, you know, it still keeps that character. It still, it's like, oh, look, you know, there's where Paul Revere started his ride from and things like that. You know, you see the old North Church and you see all of, you know, like you can understand, like the breadth of the history that they maintained. And you see how it evolved and stitched together new styles with old styles and things like that, and things played off of each other pretty well. And that's what I think is interestingly successful about all of these old east coast cities, that they held onto their tradition and explored it in different ways. Philly's a great example of, of those. Of that kind of a city in the Boston that I got to see outside of the conference center still has that very, that very much same feeling.
- [43:14]
A
Because they haven't motored down.
- [43:15]
B
Because they haven't. They haven't motored down and I don't think they have.
- [43:19]
A
So in it. Is it safe to say that this new version, Boston, whatever 2.0, you know, by the new conference center, newish conference center, is in the last 10 years, mostly been developed, would you say?
- [43:32]
B
Yeah, yeah. Because honestly, I've actually been to South Boston when it was still South Boston, when people were like, oh, you don't want to go to South Boston. And it still. And it felt still gritty and still unsafe or whatever you want to call it, unsafe. And, and for some reason this, you know, it felt, it felt very sanitized and gentrified.
- [43:56]
A
Right. Like, to me, this, this. So when I say it felt to me like Seattle is like the area around the Amazon headquarters in Seattle where there's just all these towers that are filled with Amazon and you know, the bubbles that NBBJ did downtown, the Amazon conference rooms that are like these indoor greenh kind of things. And then because there's even a project like that there, it's not, it's not bubbles, but it was a really cool glass cube that had a bunch of plants inside of it. I mean, I think Rob Ohtani from Thornton Thomas Eddie told me that they worked on that project. So it was. And that did look like a cool project, but it's like, it just felt like, like that's why I say it didn't feel like Boston. It felt, it felt to me almost exactly like how I felt in Seattle. And I bet in Seattle it's kind of a similar story. It's like this super developer driven environment in, in this area of downtown. And it's like that probably doesn't feel like a port city of Seattle either. Right. So it's just this trend, right, where it's like this huge infusion of money and to create something new and the next version of a city. But it is cleaned up, it is safe, it is walkable. There's a lot going on. There's a lot of mixed programming going on. Like we saw like some fitness classes on the lawn. I bet that never happened in this area of Boston before. Right. So just out in the open, the
- [45:22]
B
only running that you did there was for your life.
- [45:24]
A
Right. The Herzogen Dumuron Building. I don't know the name of it, but that, that was really cool. Right on the ica. So yeah, to walk under that cantilever, I mean that's like a cantilever of all cantilevers.
- [45:38]
B
The thing that. So I remember seeing that when, you know, especially in like publications and stuff, when that was first, when it opened. Yeah. And you know, it was, it was a jewel by the water all on its own. Right. None of this developer work had kind of engulfed that, that space. And the one thing that I did find a little disappointing about it now is that it's so dwarfed by all of the other buildings around it.
- [46:06]
A
It's not a tall building. Yeah. It's not one of the giants.
- [46:08]
B
Well, it now sort of feels, you know, at one point in time it was, you know, this nice little jewel box sitting on the edge of the water in the same vein as like say the Sydney Opera House. And, and so it, it had a lot of like power on its own and now it's competing with so much noise around it that it's so. And then you first engage it now like you were exactly. You were at an event where we were waiting for you to pick you up and you were right across the street from it. But. And so all we were doing is like staring at the back of it in the service entrances and things like that. And unfortunately that's where now people who are going to be walking around there, that's how they engage that. And so it's going to, it's going to be a completely different experience now granted from across the way and when you're looking at it obliquely from the side and stuff like that. It's still got that same power. It's still an amazing building, but it's. But now it just seems to be overwhelmed by its surroundings.
- [47:11]
A
Yeah. Which so unlucky in their timing, kind of.
- [47:14]
B
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But that. That was. I still dig that building, that cantilever.
- [47:21]
A
So talk about Trinity Church. Talk about a baseball game. What you got to experience. I didn't get to go to those,
- [47:27]
B
so we decided to. This was Wednesday, really. There wasn't a lot of that had started yet. And there was, you know, an AIA event at Fenway, but we. I did as very much I would normally do is say, oh, AIA is charging 55 bucks. I think it was something like that. For a ticket. For a ticket. I went to my. My apps that, you know, for cheap tickets and stuff, and basically found the same tickets in the same area, except for I was a lot closer to the field for 20 bucks a pop. Actually 17 bucks a pop, to be quite honest with you. And so I was just like, yeah, I'll save the money.
- [48:15]
A
Yeah, yeah, I'll save them, but definitely save them. I don't need to sit with a bunch of other architects. I don't know.
- [48:19]
B
Exactly. I mean, if I notice. If I notice that they're an architects, I'll do some, like, weird little architect wavular, you know, what's that?
- [48:28]
A
I don't want that.
- [48:29]
B
I don't know.
- [48:29]
A
What. You're like, the shadow play, am I right?
- [48:32]
B
Exactly. As a big fan of baseball, you know, I've always wanted to go to Fenway because, you know, it's kind of a temple to the history of baseball, but, man, is it. A dog
- [48:48]
A
really crammed in, like, okay, so I had to drive your car to go pick you guys up, which.
- [48:53]
B
Thank you again.
- [48:53]
A
Dude, driving in Boston is horrendous.
- [48:57]
B
Jeez. Don't do it. Let's. Let's. Let's talk about that for one real quick second. So in Detroit, if, say, Surrey or Waze or whoever says that it's two miles away from you, it typically means between two and four minutes away from you. If in. For instance, you're in Boston and it says that it's two miles away, it's 20 minutes to maybe an hour and 20 minutes away from you.
- [49:27]
A
Yeah, I was gonna say 40 minutes, probably. Yeah.
- [49:30]
B
And you're just like. And you question. You question your judgment, you question your life. You question all sorts of things in that whole net time frame of, like, sitting there watching the frustration level of your you know, drivers around you just build and build and build and, and I understand why we used to have this kind of like running joke. The, you know, the closer you got to DC, the angrier and angrier you got because of just like the fr. Of dealing with traffic and people and everything else and stuff. I can, I get it in, you know, seeing like Boston and not really knowing Boston driving at the time. I got a real quick education and so did you on how.
- [50:14]
A
Be aggressive.
- [50:16]
B
Be aggressive. Do not be apologetic. There are going to be a lot of people who are going to tell you that you're number one with a very distinct finger
- [50:28]
A
there.
- [50:29]
B
It just, it was, it was something, something to behold. And so, you know, and if you
- [50:34]
A
miss a turn, good luck.
- [50:36]
B
Like, oh my gosh. Wow. Yeah, there's.
- [50:39]
A
What a mess.
- [50:40]
B
There was.
- [50:40]
A
What a total mess. What a cluster.
- [50:43]
B
It is. There is a. There's been on occasion where I say, you know, the cluster bleep version of that statement. You know, it's just like what, you know, what's a good image that conjures up when you say, you know, of a cluster and driving. Yeah, that fits there. That fits there.
- [51:01]
A
And the roads are really bad. But imagine if they took the time to close the roads and fix them, what would happen to that traffic? Exactly. So I can. I understand why they're not addressing the road.
- [51:12]
B
What's interesting though is that neither you and I really kind of like acknowledge the fact that like all of those tunnels that we were driving through, that was all part of the whole big dig. And when you're up on the surface and you're like actually traversing through the city and stuff, that whole effort of restitching downtown back together is so worth, is the experience from the pedestrian side of things and even, you know, from a car on the surface is so worth the effort that they went through. Now, does it mean that it's, you know, stellar driving? No, no, not at all.
- [51:53]
A
No. It's terrible. Absolutely terrible.
- [51:55]
B
It was, it was, it was something special, man. You know, and I've driven through so many different east coast and you see the images of like, you know, the bumper to bumper through like say Manhattan and things like that. And I've driven through Manhattan and you know, you sort of expect it. Right. Boston is a whole special kind of traffic. Slash, aggression, slash anger, slash whatever other adjective that you want to throw on top of.
- [52:23]
A
And these zones are really separate from each other, so they are harder to get to. I don't know that there is a great public transportation system in Boston, I didn't get to experience it if there is. But like in New York, they've got this figured out, right? Completely figured out with the subway or city bike or Uber or whatever you want to do, but. Or walking. Right. It's very walkable. This. I didn't feel like fit any of those. Maybe city bike well, but I wouldn't have felt safe at all with the kind of driving that was going on.
- [52:53]
B
So the cool thing is that. So we took a bus from the convention center to kind of like the downtown hotels that the aia. So we took one of those shuttles and then we basically walked from there. And you know, we got to, you know, go to Boston Commons and, and, you know, walk around the botanical gardens and things like that for a little while. And then we just started our kind of like long walk, which was about two miles. But honestly, city walking, two miles, that's not bad at all. But we started a two mile hike down to Wrigley. But in between, you know, we got, you know, we're walking.
- [53:27]
A
I keep saying Wrigley.
- [53:28]
B
Why do I keep saying Wrigley? Fenway, you did it when we were there too. I did too.
- [53:32]
A
You're offending many people, many sportsing people, I think.
- [53:36]
B
Sorry. You know, people of Boston. Wrigley's better than Fenway.
- [53:42]
A
You just doubled down.
- [53:43]
B
I just.
- [53:44]
A
Pretty sure you're not sorry.
- [53:45]
B
I'm not sorry. Have you been to Fenway? Have you been to Wrigley?
- [53:51]
A
You know, no comparison.
- [53:52]
B
And to be quite honest with you, if we're gonna, you know, start, you know, that whole thing, Camden Yards in Baltimore. So much better than both of them.
- [54:02]
A
You heard it here.
- [54:03]
B
It is. It is. It is the new temple of baseball that I think is so much better than. Than practically every single baseball stadium out there. So. Nah.
- [54:12]
A
So talk about the church.
- [54:13]
B
What was.
- [54:13]
A
So what was that?
- [54:15]
B
So, you know, we. To talk about the shadow plateness, you know, so we went to. On our walk to Fenway, we stopped at Trinity Church. We also stopped at Boston Public Library. Trinity Church by H.H. richards. The top 10 of the most notable architecture in the United States. And I understand why this is. This is where a lot of of the architects and architecture, from early, let's just say the mid-1800s to the early 1900s, where that. Where all of those architects kind of evolved. And Trinity Church was an absolute gem that thankfully they have preserved and continue to preserve and provide tours. And it's so well worth it to go on these tours. You know, it's Still a very active church, still have a large congregation that takes care of and are good stewards of this beautiful masterpiece of architecture. And get wax poetic about, you know, shadow play and the depth of everything and blah, blah, blah and all this other stuff. But to me, in our conversations that I always have about the kind of, like, lineage of architects, you know, you have H.H. richardson, who, you know, had a draftsman who was, you know, McKim, and then the McKim goes on to, you know, McKim, Mead and White. And then you have this whole evolution of HH Richardson trying to kind of establish this American language of architecture. But then, you know, when he passed at relatively young age, I believe he was in his 40s when he passed, kind of took on the mantle as kind of like the next, you know, big Boston architect or, sorry, New York architect, wherever the hell they were.
- [56:06]
A
Wherever they were, but on the East Coast.
- [56:09]
B
But then. But then, you know, he travels in, you know, he takes sabbatical and travels through Europe, and there's an influence by the classical architecture there. And then when, you know, they are hired to be part of the. The White City, the. The World's Columbian Exposition, they bring back and kind of like, set back in a way, American architectural language. They set it behind. And then you have people like Louis Sullivan who comes out, is trying to like, you know, rebel against all of that, you know, and then you've got Frank Lloyd Wright that evolves from that, you know, and it's just. It's kind of interesting because you're sitting there and you're looking at this extraordinarily beautiful building, and you can see the influences of all of these other architects from this, like, origin of this very Richardsonian Romanesque type type building that has a completely different language from everything that was being built around it. So this was as much of this avant garde, kind of like modernist, kind of like movement before it was before modernism existed, because it was just this. It was kind of a. Yeah, yeah, I see what you guys are doing, but check out what, you know, what my boy Henry here is doing, you know. You know, and it was. It was. Is just a captivating thing. And the thing I. I love about going on some of these tours is I will not say I'm an architect. I will just sit back and I will listen and all of this other stuff. And, you know, every once a great while, if, you know, like, my wife was like, you know, is that. Is that right? You know, it's just like, you know, I'm learning just as much as. As the next person. I do know enough about Richardson to kind of like just be enriched and think about, you know, all of the other things that were going on while I'm listening to like their conversation. And the docents there were just phenomenal. This lady loves this building. She's, you know, a member of the congregation and loves the building and has taken such a huge deep dive into understanding the building, understanding Richardson, understanding kind of like, you know, even McKim where, you know, like, she's, she could be a foremost expert on, on what's going on. And it was great because then afterwards I started to have a conversation with her and then, you know, I apparently started dropping some archa speak that she was just like, are you an architect? And so then, then the conversation kind of changed and we got into a much deeper conversation about it and then we started talking about like the kind of like the, the lineage of like some of these other ones and how. Because you can see a lot of like Sullivan, you know, a lot of influence in Sullivan's work from H.H. richardson. And so it's kind of interesting to kind of like, for me to piece all of that stuff together while I'm sitting there doing all of this and then immediately go across the street and
- [59:01]
A
wait, wait, wait, wait. Nope, I'm going to, I'm going to. This is where we actually call it out and we, we do some market speak here and I give you a word and then you tell me you've already. You've already. You're already there. Juxtaposition, Cormac Juxtaposition. Tell me, tell me what this brings up in relation to this church.
- [59:18]
B
So juxtaposition. What does it bring up? It brings up two different things. One, immediately across the. The comments is the McKim kind of like transition from this development of the architectural style to a setback to kind of like re. Embracing a European style. But then right next door is this big glass high rise John Hancock Building by I.M. pei. And it is such this amazing dichotomy of buildings.
- [59:48]
A
Contrast.
- [59:49]
B
Yes, this amazing contrast. And so there's one photograph that will again, you know, put link to my Instagram page in the show notes where there's this kind of concave split in the kind of like triangular piece of.
- [60:09]
A
It's like, it's like a wedge has
- [60:10]
B
been subtracted exactly from the. And you know, if you, if you stand in the right position, the, the, the spires, or the spire, if we want to call it that of the tower of Trinity Church aligns perfectly with that and it almost looks like the, you know, that, that wedge it. It's a good kind of like compositional, like, you know, filler of that. And it's, it's really interesting. But then what was interesting is having the conversation about what the construction of the tower did to the church, which almost destroyed the church because they were driving all of the piles in and the piles were undermining the structure of the church. The whole back bay area is actually fill. And so it was already on unstable ground. And that particular church was built on a large mat, concrete foundation. And of course, now, you know, these big high rises need to be built on large, you know, caissons that go down to bedrock. And so as they're doing all of that, it's disrupting everything else. And almost everything on the building for Trinity Church is original. There are a few little small reproduction pieces, but there's one glass, one piece of glass that was completely blown out as a brand new piece. Because when the, you know, the heat, you know, the, the thermal expansion in the, the early days of the Hancock Tower were going on, pieces of glass were popping out and dropping, just raining
- [61:50]
A
down shards of glass. Church. Churchgoers.
- [61:53]
B
Yes. Raining down imminent death to folks. And it ripped out one of their age. It shattered out one of the stained glass windows of the sign from God
- [62:05]
A
when you're inside that church. And that happens.
- [62:07]
B
Exactly.
- [62:08]
A
Well, I think maybe we want to talk a little bit about the AIA conference in general because we'll save our next field trips for future episodes, for sure. We just want to give those projects their due, to talk about them and, and even talk about some that we didn't talk about.
- [62:25]
B
Well, I mean, I, I think it kind of, in an interesting way, sort of helped set the stage for the trips that we took and what we wanted to see. But also just kind of like that, that first impression of Boston, especially since, you know, this is your first time in, you know, the New England states and things like that in being able to do that. And then, of course, you know, talking about, well, why were we even there in the first place?
- [62:46]
A
Yeah, yeah, so get what. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about the AIA conference. And so the AI. The conference itself was. It was really Thursday and Friday and maybe the first half of Saturday. Right. That's typically how they do it. And I felt like, I mean, just general, like 30,000 foot level. I felt like the energy was better than it was the last two years. You know, just pulling from recent memory. And I also felt like, well, I felt like the speakers were better. Better than they have been this year. And I mean that from kind of a. I mean, engagement level. There was. There was. It was very. The keynotes were very well done, I thought, compared to previous years. And I'm not quite sure what the difference is other than just the people who were involved in deliver the speeches and the conversation.
- [63:43]
B
Also, I know that you and I, in the past, we've talked about in kind of like, did the speakers that we had in the past speak to the audience of a group of a very large gathering of architects? Right.
- [63:58]
A
Yeah, like 15,000 architects as the number I heard.
- [64:03]
B
Right. And, you know, and in the past, you know, there were some that were highly questionable. It's like, you know, why are we listening to them? And then there were some that, you know, as you kind of remember from the pastor, like, man, why are we going to go listen to this guy? And that turned out to be a fantastic keynote speaker. But I think these all kind of are very relevant to what we do, you know, giving a kind of a little bit of a vision into the future with, you know, the first keynote talking about AI. Fantastic kind of recognition of, you know, even before that, fantastic recognition of a lot of people who are doing great, you know, great work in the profession. The recognition of the, you know, firm of the year. Recognition of a lot of, like, individuals who are out there, Gold medal, you know, doing great, you know, Deborah Burke. Exactly. You know, doing great work. And then, you know, so, like, all of that was, in my opinion, it felt better than it has in the past because, I don't know, I mean, maybe it was. The energy was definitely a lot different. Like, so we went to, like, the first one post Covid in Chicago, and it felt like we were just tripping.
- [65:16]
A
That was not post Covid. That was.
- [65:19]
B
That was.
- [65:19]
A
Well, I got Covid there.
- [65:21]
B
Yeah, that was the first. First. First. Only time I got Covid was there. Thank you, architects.
- [65:27]
A
Yeah, thanks, architects.
- [65:29]
B
And. And so it. That was kind of like this. You know, it was such a weird vibe there anyway, because everybody was just worried about, like, am I going to get Covid? And yes was the answer in many cases. But then, you know, and then San Francisco, you know, we go there, and it still felt so very. I don't know if it was like, maybe this the place. I mean, what was great about, like, being in San Francisco is it was like, in the heart of the city, and it was very walkable. And, you know, we, like. I got my step count in and Then sell there. But it didn't seem like it was so well attended or that the, the vendors were like there wasn't as many vendors. And even in D.C. last year, which I was somewhat disappointed with, you know, being kind of like the semi home turf, this is where, you know, that was like where the, the birth of ARCA speak even, you know, began was at the original, you know, the, the what, 13 years ago, you know, 14 years ago, AIA convention in D.C. was. But it just didn't have the vibe in this one. You're absolutely right. It was so much more electric there. You know, a lot more vendor, a lot more vendors, a lot to engage with. The thing that I am somewhat disappointed with is the way that they did the CEUs and all of like the, the lectures. Because whereas in the past, you know, you sort of had these, you know, you could sign up for, for different sessions and stuff and you would go there and you actually were guaranteed a spot. What they did was they sort of had a lot of like the, the vendor related CEU type stuff out on the floor, which they, you know, they have in the past.
- [67:10]
A
Sure, right.
- [67:11]
B
But for some reason, you know, if you signed, you know, if you like you didn't sign up for it per se, you actually just, you know, you sort of showed up and if there was space, you could go there. And if there wasn't space, you're like, well, too bad. And I, it didn't feel like that was as organized as it was in the past. But still though the overall feeling, the overall vibe of the overall camaraderie about that was so much better. A lot of walking on that floor. That's a big, that was a. Yeah, that was a big conference center that was completely filled.
- [67:42]
A
It was great. I thought that was great. The energy was great. There was the, the, the engagement with just the vendors who were there was, was great. Was just like, hey, we're all here to like learn and to get exposure of what's going on in the industry. And it actually felt like it just kind of like matched up with the energy of everybody was bringing something positive to the situation. And I don't know how to explain, like that sounds super woo woo to me. But like at the same time, that's what it was. It felt great. It is mentally and physically draining to do these things. I mean, how many people did you talk to at the conference? I mean, hundreds and hundreds of people. I would say a thousand people is probably not a thousand people, but it felt like a thousand people, like literal One on one conversations with that many people. And so it's taxing. And at the same time I didn't feel like, oh, get me out of here. Which I have felt before.
- [68:46]
B
I will say that there was a few times where I did feel that way. And you know, as you were retreat. Yeah, I had to retreat a few times and then get looked at where. Because I went into the AIA's little area and I just found a nice comfortable seat to sit down in. But apparently it was for like AIA related, like things. I'm like, yeah, whatever, you're not allowed.
- [69:09]
A
We don't, we don't like your kind.
- [69:11]
B
Well, well, somebody came up and they're like, you know, are you waiting to, you know, meet with someone? And I'm like, nope, just off my feet and like, yeah. But then they kind of like glanced at the press pass and they just, I guess gave me a pass on the press pass thing. So maybe that was, that was the key, is to get yourself the little golden, you know, the golden ticket.
- [69:31]
A
I was curious if, if the AIA kind of taking over, running the show, which I think happened in San Francisco for the first time. No, D.C. maybe it was D.C. last year that they did that for the first time was going to change it significantly in, in a bad way because like, it's hard to run events, right? Like that, that's a thing. That's, it's not easy at all. It's very difficult. And I felt like this one, they actually got their feet under them. Yeah, yeah, that's how it felt to me.
- [70:02]
B
Totally. I, you know, I definitely got to applaud them that they did the food, food at the, the event though. Come on now. You could have gotten some food trucks or something out on the, on the
- [70:13]
A
street because there weren't that many options. There weren't that many options. They only did it for a limited amount of time. I think that, that, that is a valid critique and it like going outside of the conference center to find something. It was a walk, it was a hike to find something.
- [70:29]
B
Yeah, yeah. Now, you know, again, you know, hopefully the development will engulf that whole area and there will be more food choices and, and stuff around there for future events and things like that for other people. But yeah, it was, it was kind of a chore to like, if you didn't like pack something in with you. It was kind of a chore. Although, you know, Anderson Windows going to give you a special shout out with your nice little coffee.
- [70:53]
A
Not a sponsor.
- [70:54]
B
They should be a sponsor. But man, Evan got some. Two. Two nice espresso.
- [71:00]
A
Thanks. Thanks to you.
- [71:01]
B
Thermal mugs.
- [71:03]
A
My wife was like, what? We don't need those. And I'm like, these are so cool.
- [71:09]
B
And I gave up mine for her.
- [71:11]
A
I know she's ungrateful. Well, she hasn't gotten to actually use it yet, so maybe that will change her mind.
- [71:20]
B
Exactly. You need to, you know, this. The weekend is coming and you should treat her. I should treat her to some coffee.
- [71:27]
A
Well, let's talk a little bit about Evelyn's keynote. So Evelyn, friend of the show, been on the show. Evelyn Lee, president of AIA this year. And I thought that her speech was absolutely fantastic. Oh, yeah, I bet she did an amazing job.
- [71:43]
B
I. I will say something. And I don't know if you noticed, but, you know, so I. While she was speaking, I noticed you
- [71:52]
A
were doing some, some serious reporting as a prep member of the board.
- [71:55]
B
No, I actually texted her to tell her how good I thought, you know, her.
- [72:02]
A
Her speech.
- [72:02]
B
During her speech. I texted because this was during her speech, but before the conversation with. With Pete. And so I, you know, I text her and the guy next to me was like, kind of like glancing down and like noticing that I had. He's just like, you know her. Yeah,
- [72:21]
A
she knows a lot of people,
- [72:22]
B
to be fair, but she. But yeah, to be fair, she knows a lot of people, but, you know, I mean, fellow introverts of the world, unite, right?
- [72:29]
A
Yeah, right.
- [72:30]
B
But no, she did a fantastic job. It was one of those that. And I'll say that in the past a lot there's, you know, been both hit or miss with the president's speech,
- [72:41]
A
like, the delivery of that, you know,
- [72:43]
B
the delivery of that. And you know, I think, you know, Kimberly, last year was. Did a great job for some reason this year, I think because of the electricity of the conference itself. But then just, you know, kind of like the way that she kind of like just blended right into it and talked about with passion, you know, the vision, you know, for architecture and the profession and everything else. Did, you know, a fantastic job. And I thought it was great. And then, you know, it kind of like led into obviously the next conversation that she had with the next keynote, which. So what did you think of that keynote?
- [73:18]
A
So she basically had a chat, a conversation, sitting. And this is like previous, you know, I think Obama has been part of this before, right, where they have these kind of one on one conversations. So it feels unscripted, it's a little bit scripted. Obviously all of the questions have been kind of pre vetted and thought about.
- [73:42]
B
I looked at like the teleprompter that was like behind us up on the big screen, and I'm like, yeah, you know, it pre.
- [73:50]
A
It's all there.
- [73:51]
B
It's all there. Unscripted script.
- [73:53]
A
Yeah. But it's delivered very naturally. Much like this podcast, right?
- [73:57]
B
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
- [73:58]
A
But it's one of those. It was a great conversation and I thought Pete Buttigieg's. Is that how you say it? Buttigieg. Buttigieg's side of his part of the conversation, being the question answerer. I felt like it was super inspiring and it was really engaging for the audience that was there. And kind of his emphasis on infrastructure, transportation and things like that that his platform has really been built on over the years applies. We lived it in Boston. We lived kind of the state of transportation and infrastructure on many levels and kind of you see the direct need for the attention in those matters. And I felt like just his weaving in his personal story with his twins and his kids and just like the normal family life side of things and all of that was like that personal side of it is what makes it land for all the people in the audience. So I felt like it was a very well done conversation and it was
- [75:07]
B
a good conversation about how architects can influence and drive infrastructural improvements at the policy level.
- [75:17]
A
Right.
- [75:18]
B
Even at the policy level.
- [75:19]
A
And I think that that really is, to me, kind of the call to action for architects is getting involved at the policy level, not just the rfp, not just the project level, Getting involved in city councils and decisions early so that these things happen. And bringing an architect in, the way that architects rise to challenges and show up with a different perspective than anybody else at the table when it comes to our training and how we go about problem solving is a. Is a. Is a huge plus. And so that's why it's a big takeaway for me is like he's talking to the right audience here to get involved. You know, it is a huge sacrifice to be able to take the time to do that, but it really does help in immense ways.
- [76:09]
B
Yeah. What I hope changed for a few people that I overheard when we were entering into the hall who are talking about why do we really care about infrastructure? And I don't. I. I didn't connect with that comment because I think a lot of our, you know, like every bit of our work really does kind of connect with infrastructure in one way.
- [76:31]
A
Shape. Form. Yeah, go. Go beyond the property line.
- [76:33]
B
Yeah, exactly that. I hope that the conversation kind of helped to change their minds. You know, it didn't sound like that. There was a lot. I mean, there was a lot of, you know, like, you know, really kind of encouraged. People were. Seemed encouraged by the conversation.
- [76:48]
A
Yeah.
- [76:49]
B
So I kind of really hope that, you know, things changed. They changed their minds as well.
- [76:55]
A
Yeah. We skipped over the first day's keynotes because we love Evelyn, but Ali Miller delivered the AI keynote, and I think this was one of those ones where it's like, do we really need to go to this? And I'm glad we did, because I felt like her message at that time for that audience was super appropriate and on the big scale because she is so good at delivering just like, non archispeak, non technical. Obviously, she's not an architect, but she brings kind of a really conversational, practical vision of the usefulness of AI and other emerging technology to an audience that is constantly slow to adopt new technologies or unable to see the application of technologies in their practice. And she gave some great examples, like just literally great examples that I hope really got people's gears turning. And it made me want to start to use kind of the AI coding stuff to build my own applications to do stuff, because she gave some great examples about that, like, even just for kids, developing a toothbrushing app with a timer and a reminder. And I thought, like, it's just like, super simple example, but it shows you kind of like. Like how things are literally changing underneath us at a foundational level when it comes to what the tools are that we're going to use to deliver projects and then how we could apply that to our practices.
- [78:25]
B
Yeah. So one of the things that always amazes me about people in the conversation about AI especially, well, architects and the conversation about AI is, yeah, yeah, but what does that mean for us? What does that mean for the profession? And so not only did we have that keynote, but then when you went out onto the floor and you got to see people in how they're applying AI as, you know, as a tool to assist architects and planners and jurisdictions and all of that other stuff. And it really kind of showed that, as we always say, genie's out of the bottle. AI is coming whether we like it or not. But now here is exactly how you can actually use it. So it was a good tie into not only that first keynote, but then when you went out onto the floor and you could actually see how it's actually being practically used as a way for what, you know, is accessible to architects, AI in the software, you Know, like the. Just the production software that we use, but then, you know, this. This whole kind of expansion of other softwares that are using it that, you know, can help streamline and, you know, as we were talking about with arcoll, you know, how you can use all of these different productivity tools with AI to kind of help assist in, like, the mundane kind of things that, you know, we. We want to do differently. And I think we were sort of blown away by the capabilities of. What was it? Gustar?
- [79:51]
A
Archistar. Yeah, I was going to say shout out to Archistar. Yeah. Small booth, big idea. Yeah.
- [79:56]
B
Oh, absolutely. And it was just, you know, fantastic the way that they're, you know, implementing things and helping things from the ahj side of things that, you know, we. And then how it's being used and implemented in things like, you know, upcodes and stuff like that and how that's directly helping us. And then, like, you know, interesting to, like, you. It was. It was kind of good to see, like, you kind of, like, surfing around and say who you guys, you know, like, going from one booth and saying, you guys need to go talk to, like, these guys. Yeah, these guys need to go talk to those guys and stuff. And, like, you were, like, making introductions and to other things that could benefit from each other as well as, you know, how can architects use it, but how can those particular, like, tech developers use each other to kind of improve their own stuff? Which I thought was kind of cool.
- [80:45]
A
Yeah, people don't know what they. People don't know what they don't know. And so when everybody knows what it's like to be, like, in your lane and, like, heads down and like, go, go, go on the things that you're doing, whether that's developing software or delivering projects. And so as somebody who can kind of sit back and see where these connections need to be made, because, yeah, like, chances are they don't know about this startup that's doing this thing or this as an architect, like, this tool that accomplishes this goal. And so I love kind of making those connections with people. Yeah.
- [81:19]
B
Yeah, that was cool.
- [81:21]
A
Awesome. Well, I think we need to wrap this one up. You have a meeting to get to, but we will continue this conversation in our next episode and do some deeper dives into the projects that we got to visit, which. Yeah, can't wait. It's going to be great. Yeah.
- [81:37]
B
This is when I get to nerd Seriously out.
- [81:40]
A
Yes, definitely. All right, man. So see y' all in the next one.
- [81:47]
B
It.