Archive 81: OUT OF UNIVERSE – A Conversation with Ella Watts

Podcast: Archive 81
Host: Dead Signals
Guest: Ella Watts (audio fiction consultant, BBC, and The Orphans)
Release Date: May 29, 2019
Episode Focus: Audio drama process, worldbuilding, inspiration, favorite characters, and reflections on Archive 81’s evolving narrative

Episode Overview

In this out-of-universe bonus episode, Mark (co-creator/writer of Archive 81) sits down with audio fiction specialist and superfan, Ella Watts. The conversation dives deeply into the creative complexities of writing and producing an audio drama, focusing on topics such as the joy and pain of writing, unique challenges of crafting unreal worlds in audio, the evolving tone and structure of Archive 81, and the uncanny power of sound in storytelling. The discussion is candid, humorous, and often self-deprecating, offering rare behind-the-scenes insights both into the podcast itself and the wider audio fiction medium.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Writing Process: Pain, Relief, and Sound

(01:38) Mark likens writing to the show’s own horror—painful, compulsive, and ultimately a relief when finished rather than a joy:
- “It's not so much that I enjoy writing it, it's that I like—it's a relief to get it done.” (Mark, 02:28)
The real pleasure comes from hearing performances and sound design (music, actors’ interpretations), not necessarily the act of writing itself.

Expressing the Ineffable through Sound

(04:00) Mark emphasizes audio drama’s ability to convey things that can't be put into words, often resorting to unleashing sound and music instead of dialogue:
- “The dialogue is not as important, not nearly as important as the sounds themselves. It's a sonic medium.”
- References moments (e.g., Season 3, Ep 6) when emotional expression is achieved through “weird whale/dolphin sounds” rather than speech.

Embracing Inspiration & Overcoming Blocks

(07:49) On finding inspiration: Mark recommends cultivating boredom—shutting off distractions and letting the mind wander. He references Cal Newport’s work on the importance of undistracted thinking:
- “The best ideas come when you are bored. ... You need to let yourself be bored.” (Mark, 09:57)
Ella offers a pragmatic tip for capturing shower inspiration—write it on shower walls with crayons.

Crafting Unreal Worlds in Audio

(11:21) Mark’s guiding philosophy: Let the audience do the imaginative heavy lifting and let sound design carry worldbuilding:
- “One of the reasons that audio fiction is so, so, so good at creating unreal worlds is that it gives the audience just a little bit of information and then they take it from there … let your sound do the work for you.”
- Writing in audio drama should “serve the sound design”; the medium belongs to sound designers, not writers.

Esoteric Forces, Magic, and Communicating the Impossible

(14:10) Each season of Archive 81 explores esotericism in different ways (season 1 = archive tape, season 2 = Dreamlands, season 3 = magic rituals), always focusing on evoking what TV/film can’t.

Season & Miniseries Favorites

(16:27) Ella’s order: Season 3 > Golden Age > Season 2 > Season 1 (but stresses their interdependence, like instruments in an orchestra).
(19:25) Mark’s: Golden Age > Season 3 > Season 1 > Season 2. Both agree Golden Age is a great entry point to the show.

Evolving Tone and Structure

(20:49) Seasons are deliberately different because Mark and Dan get bored easily. There's no pre-planned show arc: they chase new creative challenges each time.
- “None of this is planned out. ... every season we try and move further and further away from us acting.” (Mark, 22:59)
Purpose of change: To keep themselves interested and to fully explore audio fiction’s potential.

On Left of the Dial (Miniseries) and Road Trip Format

Banjo music, Americana, and strange radio signals inspire Left of the Dial, emphasizing the uncanny feeling of tuning through mysterious transmissions while driving (25:12).

Favorite & Most Fun Characters

Sponsorbot is the easiest and most fun—“you write some weird shit about this robot that hates humans, and it's funny, and it takes like, 20 minutes, and everybody loves it.” (Mark, 27:03)
Static Man: a quirky, specific character whose Syracuse-college-student vibes make him particularly fun and earthy to write.

Characters Ella Wants More Of

Ella wants more of Christine and the “crew of the Irons”—seen as some of the show’s only genuinely kind characters (29:24).

Balancing Mystery and Fan Demand

Mark intentionally leaves much of the world vague and unexplained:
- “All that stuff is purposefully left extremely vague ... Nobody knows shit. Even I try and keep everything slightly mysterious.” (Mark, 37:28)
He defends the practice of letting the audience fill in gaps, comparing it to why the Star Wars prequels lose magic by over-explaining.

Writing Deeply Flawed Characters

Characters like Static Man, Nicholas, and others are “not decent human beings”—most audience favorites should probably be in prison!
Mark finds himself forgiving his creations because “they're mine,” while Ella observes audience’s willingness to forgive reflects our own hopes for redemption (54:37).

Exploration of Loneliness & Forgiveness

Static Man is “really lonely,” and both hosts dive into how trauma and alienation drive the series’ characters to desperation and magic.
Christine, named after Mark's mum, is one of few genuinely moral characters, albeit with flaws (54:57).

Reflections on Reader Interpretation and Character Identification

Mark is aware that much of himself is poured into Nicholas, Static Man, and other characters—leading to the sometimes-unsettling experience of seeing fans react to versions of himself and friends in the stories (57:16).
“The strangest things about doing Archive 81... is seeing the characters that are sort of based on us ... having people react to characters that are kind of facets of my personality. ... It is a strange emotional experience, to put it mildly.” (Mark, 59:00)

Closing Thoughts

Ella expresses trust in the creative team to introduce compelling new characters, regardless of past attachments (36:44).
Mark reiterates the mystery is intentional: “The point of Archive 81 is not to find answers.”
Teasers and hints are dropped about upcoming plot points but always remain “super fucking vague, but still intriguing.” (Mark, 45:47)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

On Writing Pain:
- “It's not so much that I enjoy writing it, it's that ... it's a relief ... it finally subsided, or, oh, I picked at the scab, it's gone.” (Mark, 02:16)
On Audio Drama’s Core:
- “The dialogue is not as important, not nearly as important as the sounds themselves. ... Audio drama is a sound designer's medium. The writing should serve the sound design.” (Mark, 05:08, 13:00)
On Creativity & Boredom:
- “The best ideas come when you are bored ... you need to let yourself be bored.” (Mark, 09:57)
Fan Service vs. Imagination:
- “Let your sound do the work for you. ... It's giving the audience space to let their imagination wander.” (Mark, 12:18)
On Season Diversity:
- “[We] get bored way too easily. ... None of this is planned out. ... doing something new and weird every time gives us a wider breadth.” (Mark, 20:49, 22:59)
On Leaving Mysteries Unanswered:
- “... giving concrete answers to magic is ... takes the mystery and magic out of it. ... The main one is: you don’t get something from nothing.” (Mark, 38:05)
On Character Forgiveness:
- “I see why I forgive them because I've written, they're mine ... it's very gratifying that you also forgive them, even though you probably shouldn't.” (Mark, 54:37)
On Sound and Intrigue as Tagline:
- “That's the whole point of Archive 81: Super fucking vague, but still intriguing.” (Mark, 45:47)

Episode Timeline

| Timestamp | Topic / Segment | |------------|----------------------------------------------------| | 00:00–01:33 | Introductions, apology for episode delay | | 01:33–03:20 | Why Mark writes audio drama | | 03:20–05:49 | Sound over dialogue; expressing impossibility | | 05:49–10:49 | Inspiration and the necessity of boredom | | 10:49–14:10 | Crafting unreal worlds through minimal writing & sound | 14:10–16:27 | On magic/esoteric forces and their sonic portrayal | | 16:27–20:49 | Favorite seasons; how Golden Age fits the series | | 20:49–26:48 | Evolving format and tone each season; Left of the Dial inspiration | 26:48–29:14 | Favorite and most fun characters to write | | 29:14–35:23 | Wanting more time with specific side characters; fearing over-explanation | 35:23–39:49 | The deliberate mystery and vagueness of the show's world | 39:49–43:33 | Story structure: not about concrete answers, but world and feeling | 43:33–46:30 | Leaving plot points open for future return | | 46:30–54:57 | The psychology and loneliness of characters | | 54:57–57:16 | Nicholas, Christine — moral complexity and relation to real people | 57:16–61:45 | Reflections on reading into the work; closings |

Memorable Moments

Mark playfully calls out Harry Potter magic tropes with “Yep. Fuck Harry Potter.” (14:35)
The tongue-in-cheek summary of Archive 81: “Super fucking vague, but still intriguing.” (45:47)
Deep commentary on audience-complicity in character forgiveness: “You like the idea that people would forgive you on a different scale with a more grounded reality.” (Ella, 51:00)
Mark confesses to inserting much of himself into Nicholas and describes the surreal oddity of having fans psychoanalyze a fictionalized version of himself and his friends. (57:16, 59:00)

Closing Thoughts

This episode delivers a rare glimpse into the creative minds behind Archive 81, their philosophies on audio as a storytelling medium, and an engaging meta-dialogue with one of its most invested listeners. Equal parts craft talk, creative therapy session, and fandom Q&A, it’s essential listening for anyone curious about the magic (and mystery) behind great audio fiction.

Find Ella Watts:

Podcast: The Orphans
Twitter: @EJWatts

“You need to let yourself be bored. That’s like always my main advice when anybody wants to write. And that’s like my one piece of good advice.”
— Mark, 09:57

Archive 81: OUT OF UNIVERSE – A Conversation with Ella Watts

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Writing Process: Pain, Relief, and Sound

(01:38) Mark likens writing to the show’s own horror—painful, compulsive, and ultimately a relief when finished rather than a joy:
- “It's not so much that I enjoy writing it, it's that I like—it's a relief to get it done.” (Mark, 02:28)
The real pleasure comes from hearing performances and sound design (music, actors’ interpretations), not necessarily the act of writing itself.

Expressing the Ineffable through Sound

(04:00) Mark emphasizes audio drama’s ability to convey things that can't be put into words, often resorting to unleashing sound and music instead of dialogue:
- “The dialogue is not as important, not nearly as important as the sounds themselves. It's a sonic medium.”
- References moments (e.g., Season 3, Ep 6) when emotional expression is achieved through “weird whale/dolphin sounds” rather than speech.

Embracing Inspiration & Overcoming Blocks

(07:49) On finding inspiration: Mark recommends cultivating boredom—shutting off distractions and letting the mind wander. He references Cal Newport’s work on the importance of undistracted thinking:
- “The best ideas come when you are bored. ... You need to let yourself be bored.” (Mark, 09:57)
Ella offers a pragmatic tip for capturing shower inspiration—write it on shower walls with crayons.

Crafting Unreal Worlds in Audio

(11:21) Mark’s guiding philosophy: Let the audience do the imaginative heavy lifting and let sound design carry worldbuilding:
- “One of the reasons that audio fiction is so, so, so good at creating unreal worlds is that it gives the audience just a little bit of information and then they take it from there … let your sound do the work for you.”
- Writing in audio drama should “serve the sound design”; the medium belongs to sound designers, not writers.

Esoteric Forces, Magic, and Communicating the Impossible

(14:10) Each season of Archive 81 explores esotericism in different ways (season 1 = archive tape, season 2 = Dreamlands, season 3 = magic rituals), always focusing on evoking what TV/film can’t.

Season & Miniseries Favorites

(16:27) Ella’s order: Season 3 > Golden Age > Season 2 > Season 1 (but stresses their interdependence, like instruments in an orchestra).
(19:25) Mark’s: Golden Age > Season 3 > Season 1 > Season 2. Both agree Golden Age is a great entry point to the show.

Evolving Tone and Structure

(20:49) Seasons are deliberately different because Mark and Dan get bored easily. There's no pre-planned show arc: they chase new creative challenges each time.
- “None of this is planned out. ... every season we try and move further and further away from us acting.” (Mark, 22:59)
Purpose of change: To keep themselves interested and to fully explore audio fiction’s potential.

On Left of the Dial (Miniseries) and Road Trip Format

Banjo music, Americana, and strange radio signals inspire Left of the Dial, emphasizing the uncanny feeling of tuning through mysterious transmissions while driving (25:12).

Favorite & Most Fun Characters

Sponsorbot is the easiest and most fun—“you write some weird shit about this robot that hates humans, and it's funny, and it takes like, 20 minutes, and everybody loves it.” (Mark, 27:03)
Static Man: a quirky, specific character whose Syracuse-college-student vibes make him particularly fun and earthy to write.

Characters Ella Wants More Of

Ella wants more of Christine and the “crew of the Irons”—seen as some of the show’s only genuinely kind characters (29:24).

Balancing Mystery and Fan Demand

Mark intentionally leaves much of the world vague and unexplained:
- “All that stuff is purposefully left extremely vague ... Nobody knows shit. Even I try and keep everything slightly mysterious.” (Mark, 37:28)
He defends the practice of letting the audience fill in gaps, comparing it to why the Star Wars prequels lose magic by over-explaining.

Writing Deeply Flawed Characters

Characters like Static Man, Nicholas, and others are “not decent human beings”—most audience favorites should probably be in prison!
Mark finds himself forgiving his creations because “they're mine,” while Ella observes audience’s willingness to forgive reflects our own hopes for redemption (54:37).

Exploration of Loneliness & Forgiveness

Static Man is “really lonely,” and both hosts dive into how trauma and alienation drive the series’ characters to desperation and magic.
Christine, named after Mark's mum, is one of few genuinely moral characters, albeit with flaws (54:57).

Reflections on Reader Interpretation and Character Identification

Mark is aware that much of himself is poured into Nicholas, Static Man, and other characters—leading to the sometimes-unsettling experience of seeing fans react to versions of himself and friends in the stories (57:16).
“The strangest things about doing Archive 81... is seeing the characters that are sort of based on us ... having people react to characters that are kind of facets of my personality. ... It is a strange emotional experience, to put it mildly.” (Mark, 59:00)

Closing Thoughts

Ella expresses trust in the creative team to introduce compelling new characters, regardless of past attachments (36:44).
Mark reiterates the mystery is intentional: “The point of Archive 81 is not to find answers.”
Teasers and hints are dropped about upcoming plot points but always remain “super fucking vague, but still intriguing.” (Mark, 45:47)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

On Writing Pain:
- “It's not so much that I enjoy writing it, it's that ... it's a relief ... it finally subsided, or, oh, I picked at the scab, it's gone.” (Mark, 02:16)
On Audio Drama’s Core:
- “The dialogue is not as important, not nearly as important as the sounds themselves. ... Audio drama is a sound designer's medium. The writing should serve the sound design.” (Mark, 05:08, 13:00)
On Creativity & Boredom:
- “The best ideas come when you are bored ... you need to let yourself be bored.” (Mark, 09:57)
Fan Service vs. Imagination:
- “Let your sound do the work for you. ... It's giving the audience space to let their imagination wander.” (Mark, 12:18)
On Season Diversity:
- “[We] get bored way too easily. ... None of this is planned out. ... doing something new and weird every time gives us a wider breadth.” (Mark, 20:49, 22:59)
On Leaving Mysteries Unanswered:
- “... giving concrete answers to magic is ... takes the mystery and magic out of it. ... The main one is: you don’t get something from nothing.” (Mark, 38:05)
On Character Forgiveness:
- “I see why I forgive them because I've written, they're mine ... it's very gratifying that you also forgive them, even though you probably shouldn't.” (Mark, 54:37)
On Sound and Intrigue as Tagline:
- “That's the whole point of Archive 81: Super fucking vague, but still intriguing.” (Mark, 45:47)

Episode Timeline

Memorable Moments

Mark playfully calls out Harry Potter magic tropes with “Yep. Fuck Harry Potter.” (14:35)
The tongue-in-cheek summary of Archive 81: “Super fucking vague, but still intriguing.” (45:47)
Deep commentary on audience-complicity in character forgiveness: “You like the idea that people would forgive you on a different scale with a more grounded reality.” (Ella, 51:00)
Mark confesses to inserting much of himself into Nicholas and describes the surreal oddity of having fans psychoanalyze a fictionalized version of himself and his friends. (57:16, 59:00)

Closing Thoughts

Find Ella Watts:

Podcast: The Orphans
Twitter: @EJWatts

“You need to let yourself be bored. That’s like always my main advice when anybody wants to write. And that’s like my one piece of good advice.”
— Mark, 09:57

OUT OF UNIVERSE - A Conversation With Ella Watts

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Summary

Archive 81: OUT OF UNIVERSE – A Conversation with Ella Watts

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Writing Process: Pain, Relief, and Sound

Expressing the Ineffable through Sound

Embracing Inspiration & Overcoming Blocks

Crafting Unreal Worlds in Audio

Esoteric Forces, Magic, and Communicating the Impossible

Season & Miniseries Favorites

Evolving Tone and Structure

On Left of the Dial (Miniseries) and Road Trip Format

Favorite & Most Fun Characters

Characters Ella Wants More Of

Balancing Mystery and Fan Demand

Writing Deeply Flawed Characters

Exploration of Loneliness & Forgiveness

Reflections on Reader Interpretation and Character Identification

Closing Thoughts

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

Episode Timeline

Memorable Moments

Closing Thoughts

Summary

Archive 81: OUT OF UNIVERSE – A Conversation with Ella Watts

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Writing Process: Pain, Relief, and Sound

Expressing the Ineffable through Sound

Embracing Inspiration & Overcoming Blocks

Crafting Unreal Worlds in Audio

Esoteric Forces, Magic, and Communicating the Impossible

Season & Miniseries Favorites

Evolving Tone and Structure

On Left of the Dial (Miniseries) and Road Trip Format

Favorite & Most Fun Characters

Characters Ella Wants More Of

Balancing Mystery and Fan Demand

Writing Deeply Flawed Characters

Exploration of Loneliness & Forgiveness

Reflections on Reader Interpretation and Character Identification

Closing Thoughts

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

Episode Timeline

Memorable Moments

Closing Thoughts