Actress, Singer, Social Media Creator Dylan Mulvaney joins Kristin to discuss S3 E18 "Cock-a-Doodle-Do"

Summary

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"Are You A Charlotte?" – Actress, Singer, Social Media Creator Dylan Mulvaney on S3E18 "Cock-a-Doodle-Do"

Host: Kristin Davis
Guest: Dylan Mulvaney
Date: March 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this lively rewatch episode, Kristin Davis is joined by actress, singer, and social media creator Dylan Mulvaney to reflect on "Sex and the City" Season 3, Episode 18, “Cock-a-Doodle-Do.” Together, they dive into a candid, multi-generational conversation touching on identity, representation, Broadway dreams, the evolution of media, and the enduring, complex legacy of the show's approach to gender and queerness. Along the way, they share intimate personal stories, moments of humor, and a nuanced reckoning with the episode’s often-cringeworthy portrayal of trans women. The mood is a mix of nostalgia, vulnerability, and optimism for how things are changing on- and off-screen.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dylan’s Connection to "Sex and the City" and Charlotte

• Dylan reveals how pivotal "Sex and the City" was for her growing up, often watching it as a young kid in a non-supportive, masculine environment:
  • “I would sit in the back bedroom and watch. He had HBO. That was, like, the one really good part about the house ... your character was the one I always was drawn to the most.” (07:00, Dylan)
• She shares that the year "Cock-a-Doodle-Do" aired (2000) was also the year she came out to her mom as a girl at age four—emphasizing the limited resources and representations available at that time. (07:19)
• Dylan talks about the importance of seeing facets of herself in the characters, particularly Charlotte, whose earnest innocence and wonder she relates to deeply as an adult. (46:24)

2. Navigating Fame, Identity & Making Your Own Path

• Kristin and Dylan reflect on the differences between coming up in the world as an actor in the 1990s versus now, and the ways social media both opens doors and exposes people to criticism:
  • “...you have made your own path ... it is so amazing and interesting ... it’s a different world now, and sometimes it’s... a terrifying world in so many ways.” (13:20, Cynthia Nixon)
• Dylan discusses the process of being pigeonholed as “just” an influencer, and her ongoing efforts to demonstrate her breadth as a performer and storyteller:
  • “...once I blew up on TikTok... oh wait, I've been acting my whole life. But people were like, no, you're an influencer. And so you're constantly having to change that narrative about yourself.” (14:09, Dylan)
• Both talk about protecting your inner child and private self despite public scrutiny, staying open but also practicing self-protection.
  • “But also, you have to protect, to stay open. I think there is a healthy amount of self-protection, because you're protecting the soft places.” (48:47, Cynthia)

3. The Evolution of Representation and the Episode’s Cringeworthy Legacy

• The group does a sensitive, honest breakdown of the episode’s deeply dated and problematic portrayal of trans women:
  • “I have watched this episode ... as I've made all this content about trans people and trans is a large theme of this episode ... the fact that we both cringe at this now, 25 years later, is the way we should be feeling.” (29:06, Dylan)
• Kristin and Cynthia discuss how, at the time, there was a sense of being progressive, but also a lack of understanding and true inclusion:
  • “...we really thought of ourselves at the time as being very progressive and inclusive and whatnot. And I think for the year 2000 ... but it really fell short sometimes.” (28:46, Cynthia)
• Dylan celebrates the leaps in "And Just Like That," the reboot, and their efforts to consult, include, and listen to the LGBTQ+ community:
  • “Now we've gotten to watch And Just Like That ... showing the same group of people getting to tell a community story in a completely different, more positive way. So that feels like there's some rectification to the situation.” (30:47, Dylan)

4. Behind-the-Scenes Reflections: Creativity, Self-Critique, and Growth

• Kristin shares what it was like working on "Sex and the City," including memories of specific scenes and how it felt to embody Charlotte’s journey. (43:29+)
• The duo opens up about the challenges of doing justice to emotional beats on screen, being pushed to play one note by directors versus feeling authentic (51:03+), and the importance of giving themselves grace for imperfect moments:
  • “...give yourself a break, Right?” (52:08, Dylan)

5. Joy, Friendship, and the ‘Barbecue’ Ending

• Dylan praises the iconic rooftop ending of the episode:
  • “That scene is like, it's just joy and it's like, it's community.” (61:28, Dylan)
  • They discuss the episode’s final line, “don’t worry, they have a very lovely life,” and how it reads differently now—questioning if it’s about the women, the animals, or the trans women, and feeling bemused by its ambiguity and underwritten quality. (61:44–63:15)

6. A Personal Story: Finding Affirmation in an Unexpected Place

• Dylan shares a powerful, vulnerable story about an encounter with a straight man from Alabama—a Sex and the City fan—culminating in a moment of affirmation after watching "Cock-a-Doodle-Do" together:
  • “‘As a trans woman ...’ and he goes, ‘No, you're a woman. You're not a trans woman, you're a woman.’ ... it took that kind of character to get that through my thick skull ... in the last place that I thought ... in this episode that is so deeply problematic, created this moment for me and this guy to see each other and have him validate the way that I see myself.” (71:08, Dylan)
• Dylan reflects on fleeting yet vital connections, how sometimes someone enters your life simply to show you something about yourself, then leaves. (74:21+)

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Notable Quotes

• On seeing yourself in characters:
  • “...through the characters in Sex and the City, I was able to identify parts of myself ... Not saying, like, oh, I am that woman. But I really like how she does this, or I like how she handled this.” (47:55, Dylan)
• On progress and trying to get it right:
  • “I think better to get a little messy if the intentions are right then than to not at all. Because a lot of people are really scared.” (31:44, Dylan)
  • “It’s almost impossible to do. But we really wanted to do it. But then people got really upset ... is it wrong to try?” (35:27, Cynthia)
• On the episode’s legacy:
  • “I think you could ask a thousand different trans people about this episode and they'd have very different takes. And especially black trans women, because that is what their story was being portrayed as ... thank God we're cringing again at it.” (73:07, Dylan)
• On self-acceptance and taking chances:
  • “You shouldn't need permission from anyone. But that gave me hope ... there are still people in this world ... that see me the way I want to be seen.” (71:54, Dylan)

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Important Timestamps

• 05:27 – Dylan’s enthusiasm: “I've listened to every episode ... this would be my dream podcast.”
• 07:19 – Coming out at age four; early identification with Charlotte
• 11:10 – Dylan on performing her own one-woman show, “The Least Problematic Woman in the World”
• 13:20–14:41 – Kristin and Dylan on generational shifts, creative self-labelling, and forging new paths
• 28:46–29:06 – Kristin and Dylan critique the episode’s portrayal of trans women
• 33:01–36:09 – Consulting with GLAAD and LGBTQ+ people on the reboot
• 43:29–45:55 – Deep dive on Charlotte and Trey’s relationship arc in the episode
• 46:24–47:55 – Dylan on why Charlotte’s earnestness resonates for her womanhood
• 61:09–63:15 – Reflections on the meaning behind the rooftop “barbecue” finale
• 64:16–74:21 – Dylan’s personal story: dinner with a stranger, connection, affirmation
• 73:07–73:47 – The episode’s complicated legacy for trans people
• 76:09–77:03 – Reflections on relationships, friends giving advice, and living out one’s own stories

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Memorable Moments

• Dylan manifesting Kristin on Broadway: “Let me. Let me ... I'm big into manifestation.” (09:17, Dylan)
• Dylan’s honest confession about Sex and the City as comfort TV in childhood escape: (07:00, Dylan)
• Cynthia admitting, “We really thought of ourselves at the time as being very progressive ... but it really fell short sometimes.” (28:46)
• Dylan’s witty, self-aware recap of her unexpectedly affirming hookup:
  • “He goes, ‘I can't believe I'm having sex with Devin Mulaney.’ I wanted to die ... we're just. Right now I'm Devin.” (68:36–68:52, Dylan)
• Dylan, about fleeting relationships:
  • “It wasn’t about the long term of it. It was about those little moments ... you got a very specific thing from them ... you just let it be this special moment.” (74:21, Dylan)

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Takeaways

• The episode is a loving but unflinching re-examination of "Sex and the City"’s history—especially its faltering attempts at LGBTQ+ representation—as well as a meditation on identity, kindness, and the power of personal storytelling.
• Both the show’s legacy and the hosts’ conversation point to the need for authentic, inclusive narrative work that is both willing to try and willing to listen—and to keep learning from what came before.
• Joy, connection, and hope for better futures are persistent undercurrents. As Dylan says, “Flowers can grow from dead things—and good can come from bad.” (63:15)

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Transcript

[Kristen Davis]

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[Cynthia Nixon]

You guys, it's super exciting day. This is a gu I've wanted on

[Kristen Davis]

since the very beginning. Dylan Mulvaney is here with us. And not only that, she brought her

[Dylan Mulvaney]

friend Lily, my best friend in the

[Cynthia Nixon]

world, which, if you've ever listened to anything Dylan talks about, Lily is part of the story. We love that she's here and we love that Dylan's here.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Oh, my God. Okay, let's talk about when you first announced this podcast. I have never texted my publicist faster in my life, and I don't really ask for things normally, but I said if there's any world, because I didn't know if the structure was gonna be if you were gonna have guests. And I was like, this is my cup of tea. And I probably have like four to five regular podcasts. I've listened to every episode of this one so far, but I just knew that this would be my dream Podcast to be on. It's the best day ever.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I'm so glad. I'm so glad that you feel that way and we feel that way about you, and you have been, like, one of the people. Since I've been doing this podcast, I'm more aware of people who talk about the show and. Or Charlotte in a way that's interesting to me, especially younger people, you know,

[Kristen Davis]

where I'm like, oh, they get it.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yes.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And that's how I feel about you.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Thank you. I think that's what's so cool about. Social media is, like, as dark as it can be. And I was just listening to Benny Drama on your show, you know, talking about the hate comments and all of that. I think, like, connecting to women like you on there and getting to feel that support online has made my journey so worth it these past few years. And I think now getting to bring my story to, you know, different audiences other than just social media has been so lovely.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I'm so gl.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

I think, Charlotte, ever since I was a kid, I grew up in my stepdad's house, who. He's like a hunter, and he has, like, 60 dead animals on the wall.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Oh, Lord.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And I would sit in the back bedroom and watch. He had hbo. And that was, like, the one really good part about the house.

[Kristen Davis]

Totally.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And I would watch real sex would be on and be like, oh, my God, what is this? And then I would watch Sex and the City. And I remember, like, even as a little kid, like, your character was the one that I always was drawn to the most.

[Kristen Davis]

That's amazing.

[Cynthia Nixon]

So when a little kid, like, how old?

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Well, funny enough, the episode we're talking about came out in 2000. That was the year that I came out to my mom as a girl. As four year olds at the time. So. But we. That when I was watching it at my stepdad's house, probably around, like, I was probably eight or nine. Wow. Around there. So 2,000, maybe those were reruns by that point, I guess for 2005. Ish. But I was. I grew up fast.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I can tell. Yes. So, wait, when did the real sex become part of it? Because that show was a lot. All right.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And I don't think the writing was so great on that one.

[Cynthia Nixon]

No.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And.

[Cynthia Nixon]

But it was a very strange show. And when we started our show that people thought that we were that.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Oh, yes, yes.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Before we aired. And I was like, no, no, no. We're like a regular, you know, scripted television show.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

I grew up, you know, Desperate Housewives. When I Was way too young for that. And in some, like, it was like me and my mom's treat, she'd be like, oh, you know, let me stay up and. And. And watch the kind of sweet I know that is. It's a way we bond and we also. Glee was one of those that we loved together, which is a little more. There was some racy stuff. And Smash, I loved Smash.

[Kristen Davis]

Wow.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Which I feel like a lot of this episode's gonna be me just trying to get you to do Broadway at some. You know, and I want. I need Kristen in a musical.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I'm done Broadway. But you don't need me singing, Dylan.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

I need it.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I don't think so.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Let's. What would be your. If you were gonna be in a musical? What role?

[Cynthia Nixon]

I don't even know enough. You tell me. You cast me.

[Kristen Davis]

You're more knowledgeable.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Oh, gosh. Okay, okay. Let me. Let me.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Should I be that lady with the bell in the. What's that one? She's, like a miss or whatever. She's, like, raising money. Cynthia almost did this on Broadway, but then the lady from Gilmore Girls did it instead.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, thank you so much, Heather.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Lauren. Graham. Oh, wait, from Guys and Dolls, maybe.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yes.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Oh, that would be a cute role for you with Sarah or. Oh, you might be a cute Adelaide in that, actually. In little blonde wig. Never say never.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Never say never. I don't know.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

I'm big into manifestation.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know the thing about Broadway, because I have done Broadway, just not a musical.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Okay.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Okay. What showed the. The best man?

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yep.

[Kristen Davis]

With James Earl Jones, Angela Lansbury, Icons of theater.

[Cynthia Nixon]

John Stamos.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Oh, he's back on stage now, is he? Did you see the Hollywood Bowl? The. When he went in for Josh Gad?

[Cynthia Nixon]

I saw. I was so stressed for him. When I saw that he was going to go in for Josh Gad, he

[Dylan Mulvaney]

did not like stress.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I mean, he is incredible on stage and very confident.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

He brought it.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I'm so glad to hear that, because I was like, he has to.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

So what you're saying, Isndheim, if someone called you the day of and said, will you fill in for a musical tonight? You would not do it.

[Cynthia Nixon]

If it was for one night, I would do it.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay. And I would give it my all.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Everyone take note of that. She's a male.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I mean, it might work. It might not work, but I would try it. If it were that kind of emergency, I could rise to that, But I don't know about like me going through regular rehearsals, I feel like I would lose my voice. I'm not a singer.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

No. Eight times a week.

[Cynthia Nixon]

No, Eight times a week is very

[Kristen Davis]

hard, as you know.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yeah. Yes, I just did.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yes. You just came from your own one woman show, which is so amazing. I'm sorry I missed it.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Oh, no, it's okay. It was called the least problematic woman in the world. We're going to come back next year and we're hoping to come to a few cities. Oh, great. But I think that title is so funny. Of just kind of playing into what, you know, to be problematic about yourself, but then also still being in pursuit of being a people person and a pleaser and just trying to make everyone like you. Yeah. And I think that's been so much of my journey these past few years is like being on such a large scale and having a magnifying glass on your life and your identity and your gender and trying to not, you know, get brought down by all the negative.

[Kristen Davis]

Imagine.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Oh, my gosh, it felt really good to get up there and tell my story the way that I wanted to tell it, because I grew up, you know, doing theater my whole life. Singing, dancing, acting. And I think to go from making these social media videos, then to, you know, writing my book Paper Doll, to then getting back to the sort of the type of art that I grew up doing and that I love more than anything was the biggest gift.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's amazing. It's amazing the way that you have been able to, you know, kind of take the reins of telling your own story in different ways, that different people can come to and relate to it.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yeah. But I. Thank you. I feel humor has always been my way in because. And with Sex and the City, I think so much of it is talking about tricky subjects, but trying to find the funny in them. And for me, that was when I was starting my transition. I was like, okay, how can I make people laugh and relate to me and not feel like I'm some monster or some boogeyman? And so I found that through comedy. And now I think getting to be up on stage and what I think is so fun about theater is you can kind of get away with a little bit more. Cause people, you know, aren't hopefully filming it unless, you know, they're doing it behind your back. But I felt safer in there than having everything taken out of context online or clicked.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And, well, it's kind of a pure experience, theater.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And it's so crazy because I think AI is changing the landscape so much. But hopefully, theater won't go away, because we'll always miss that.

[Kristen Davis]

It can't go away.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

No, it can't go away. Even if it's because we need you for your one night at the Hollywood Bowl.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I think humanity needs theater, you know, for all time. Right. Even if official Broadway went away. Right. We would still find a way to be telling stories in person.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Totally.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yes. Because it's necessary.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Dancing on the coffee table in the living room.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah. Whatever it is. Whatever it takes. All right, so I 100% respect and believe, and I love, like, for you and Benny, Mary Beth came on the show. I know addiction to her, a dream. But I also feel like, for me, the thing that's inspiring about all of you guys in your own different ways are that you have made your own path. All of.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Thank you.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And it is so amazing and interesting from. From someone been. You know, we've been doing Sex and City since 1998.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Right.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And. Or whatever version of it.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And I was trying to act, you know, for a long time before that, and it was a different. Different world that we started in, and it's a different world now, and sometimes it's, you know, a terrifying world in so many ways, and things are changing, and AI and companies are consolidating and

[Dylan Mulvaney]

how to get in the door.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yes. And you guys have done it, and I'm just so inspired by you all.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Thank you. I. But I think that's what's so interesting is it still feels like we're caught between this, like, old guard and the new you are, and trying to, you know, take yourself out of boxes. Because even once I blew up on TikTok, it was like, oh, wait, I've been acting, you know, my whole life. But people were like, no, you're an influencer.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And so you're constantly having to change that narrative about yourself.

[Cynthia Nixon]

You're having to be aware of what they're labeling you as so that you can say, no, that's not actually. Right.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

But then I think what's fun about planting the seeds is, like, okay, if they don't want to think that, I'm gonna make this kind of video to show them I can sing or I'm gonna show this so that I can write. And then slowly, it's like, I'm still in that process right now. But I always tell myself, like, I think about the women, like Oprah or Audrey Hepburn, anyone that I've looked up to. I was like, they'd probably be making TikToks right now if they were Trying to get their stuff.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I would start to think that. I think they would do whatever they had to do, right? And that might mean different things, like maybe they would make an indie film and self distribute or you know, like there's just so many different options.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Was there ever part of you when you were young trying to find your way up like that you were making your own thing or were you always.

[Cynthia Nixon]

No, because we just had no one even remotely. Well, you know, we would do. I did two things. Number one, I really thought for a while, I mean, I waitressed and I did all the. That's what you were told, like you're supposed to be an actress waitress until you can, you know, just be an actress. Make enough money to just, just be an actress. And back in the olden days you could make money doing commercials. And that's what I did first in New York, which was great because you'd get checks for years. It was like, like going to the mailbox was so exciting because you didn't know, Right? But this is not true anymore necessarily in the same way. Now that's an influencer, right? That person would be an influencer. So for me, I. I started doing yoga as a way to like keep my sanity. So I went to yoga every day to the only one yoga works that existed in Santa Monica on Montana.

[Kristen Davis]

I basically lived there.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I went every day, every morning and that was mental health thing. And then at one point they said,

[Kristen Davis]

oh Kristen, you should get your certificate and teach.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And I was like, okay. And so I did. And I thought, you know, universe, I'm going to ask you, you know, what should I be doing? If, if this is what I should be doing, I need a sign in the next six months because my parents really would like me to do something practical, right?

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And not just yoga teaching. If not, if it was yoga teaching, they'd be happy. Oh, okay.

[Cynthia Nixon]

That would have been better for them.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

I went to yoga school too. No way. My dad let me go during. It was junior year of college and I had a kind of a bad breakup situation and I was like, well, I need to. But I'm one of those people that I hadn't taken yoga before. I just decided to teach it. What I think I'm the type of person where I'm like, well, why would I just try it? Why shouldn't I? They say if you teach, then you know how to do it.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I do it.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

That's right.

[Cynthia Nixon]

But then.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

So did you end up getting the certificate?

[Cynthia Nixon]

I did get the certificate, but then also within that Six months. I got Melrose Place.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Oh, well.

[Cynthia Nixon]

So I was like.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Didn't get to do that much with it, did you?

[Cynthia Nixon]

No, I didn't, though. I did. My friend and I started a little yoga studio in this karate studio during the day. So they would teach karate at night, and we would teach yoga to, like, unemployed actors, our friends, basically, during the day. It was fun. But then I was like, I'm so sorry, I don't have. I can't.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

I gotta go work.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I know, but she's.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

She's.

[Cynthia Nixon]

She's not teaching, but she's still doing much more than me. But I need to be doing it. But anyway, that was my mom. I would love to go to yoga.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

I just don't want to do any of the workout ones, you know, where they do the weights or the yelling. No, I want to do the kn. Where you just lay down on the floor the whole time.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Well, you have to do something to get to that. But I understand. I'm not going to lift weights. No, no, no. I'm sorry. What is that?

[Kristen Davis]

No.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah, sorry. Okay, back on track.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

So I have the worst adhd. We're about to just.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Sophia Bush. I was like, oh, I love them. I. Apparently, I have adhd. I've. I've learned this since I started the podcast.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Oh, you've been told in the comments. Thank you. Comments.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yes, I have been told. But so wait, you guys are amazing. You create your own world and stories and you are able to. To, you know, put yourself out into the world through that, which I find so impressive and inspiring. So for us, here we are back in the olden days, trying to do Sex and City. You know, it was unusual, as, you know, and we were, like, forging our

[Kristen Davis]

own way ahead of its time, in a way.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yes, yes, yes. And. And luckily, I mean, at the beginning, we thought that it wouldn't be that successful, that we'd just be a little niche, you know, and that we would love it. Like, we would feel passionate about it, and maybe we'd find some other people in a small group who might also feel passionate. We never expected, you know, what has happened. So that's part of the reason I wanted to do the podcast, because it is interesting to look back on the things that we did well, you know, the things that are still resonating and ringing true and that are thought provoking now that you see the younger generation finding on, you know, Netflix.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yes, well, and we're going through some of the same.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Weirdly. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting, right? Like, Some of it you wouldn't have thought and some of it you would totally have thought.

[Kristen Davis]

You know what I'm saying?

[Cynthia Nixon]

Like, I find it interesting. But then for this particular episode, which I haven't said yet, we are, we're diving in, we're diving into an episode called Cock a Doodle Doo. It aired on October 15, 2000. It's interesting that we were on in October because we used to start in June. But I think this particular season we made like 20 something episodes. We made so many episodes.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

18, I think. Really.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Thank you for knowing. So this is what I wanna say first about you being here to rewatch this with me. We talked about it just briefly when you came in. I'm so appreciative.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Thank you.

[Cynthia Nixon]

When I look back on this episode, I'm just cringing a million cringes. I don't even know how to put it. I was. Yeah, I didn't really remember all this. Like I vaguely remember it. And I do remember that the meatpacking district as an actual neighborhood in New York has gone through a lot. Like I remember when you would drive through there and you would just smell the meat and see the cow bodies hanging there. You know, it was like a very, very different experience than now, which is like a very high end shopping.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Oh, I just all. I know, it's like I would go to Sugar Factory, that you know, restaurant that serves the goblets of alcohol, and I leave with like the craziest hangover ever. But so I didn't. We have a different version, but I.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah, I didn't do that version. I didn't do that version. But now it's like just like Stella McCartney, you know, it's like, oh, bougie, bougie, very bougie bougie. And tourists are just like clopping around on the cobblestones.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

It's crazy, but that's where Samantha was living during this epis Foreign.

[Kristen Davis]

It's the perfect time to get that Hyundai car or SUV you've been wanting. Because the Hyundai getaway sales event is happening right now. Enjoy great deals across Hyundai's entire award winning lineup. Like the Tucson with next level tech and safety features. Or the Santa Fe with three full rows of premium comfort standard. Or the bold and super stylish Elantra. Or go all electric with their breakthrough SUV, the Ioniq 5. You can't go wrong with whatever model you choose. And getting away with a great deal is just the beginning. Because every new Hyundai is backed by America's best warranty. Which means you can shop with confidence and drive with unrivaled peace of mind. So get down to your local Hyundai dealer and get away with a deal so right it almost feels wrong. But don't wait. The Hyundai Getaway sales event won't be around for long. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details. Before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes, shopping used to feel more fun. But here's a confession. Are you a Charlotte listeners? You can find that fun feeling again on ebay. Because on ebay it's not just shopping. It's a full on fashion pursuit. And when you find the thing that adrenaline hit is real. I went on to ebay to look for a super special vintage jacket for Charlotte to wear to the gallery and I found the most amazing Mugler jacket and the costume department loved it and it felt so good and I still

[Cynthia Nixon]

have it at home. Like when you score that rare Adidas

[Kristen Davis]

collab that's lived on your mood board

[Cynthia Nixon]

or the Dior saddle bag that you ripped right out of a magazine in 2007 and never got over.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, those. It's about the thrill and the pursuit of finding those pieces that feel like you. There's always more to discover. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity guarantee eBay things people love I have to tell you guys about Hill House Home. The brand behind the viral nap dress. The one with the signature smocking is both flattering and comfortable. What I love about Hill House dresses is how versatile they are. I just got the scarlet midi nap dress and I can wear it running errands during the day and at dinner or a party that night. No outfit change required. And it's not just dresses. Hill House started with bedding in 2016 and their robes and pajamas are so soft. Made from the same cotton fabric as their baby onesies. They also have the cutest styles for women, babies and kids, including monogrammable robes, onesies and pajamas that make the perfect gift gift. I love my pink dress that I just got the other day from them. It's so comfortable. I can wear it around the house and then I can run errands, I can go to lunch. It's I. It's a dream. Hill House makes fun fashion that makes you feel good, which explains why celebrities like Taylor Swift, Olivia Rodrigo and Anne Hathaway have been spotted wearing it. Honestly, Charlotte York would be all over this. Get 15% off your first order of a hundred dollars or [e-mail] with the code Charlotte15. Again that's Charlotte15 for 15% [e-mail] Spring is a feeling. More light, more movement, a little more possibility. With Pura Spring Collection, you can layer in scents inspired by places you love. Fresh air, florals in bloom, sun warmed citrus right at home. For a limited time, get a free Puroplus diffuser when you subscribe to $0.02 for 12 months. Designed for larger spaces, designed to transform how they feel. Shop the Spring collection [e-mail] I don't know about you guys, but I love taking a nice walk during the day when my kids are at school. So I'm super excited that spring is back and I can get back out there. I love a walk. A refresh can be as simple as amplifying your look with clean beauty from Thrive Cosmetics. Every product is 100% vegan, cruelty free, and made with clean skin loving ingredients that work with your skin, not against it. I love, love, love love the tinted eyebrow gel. You can use it and it lasts. It really lasts. I feel like even till the next day and it doesn't irritate. I'm really, really fond of it. Another thing I love is every time you use your favorite Thrive Cosmetics product, you're doing more than enhancing your glow. You're helping others shine too. With over 150 million in product and cash donations to 600 plus giving partners, your purchase directly fuels real impact. And that's beauty with purpose. And if you haven't tried their viral Liquid Lash Extensions mascara, it's a an absolute must. It comes in six shades that last all day without clumping, smudging or flaking. I love it so much. It makes your lashes look extra long by wrapping around each lash from root to tip. Plus they use nourishing ingredients to support longer, stronger and healthier looking lashes over time. Amplify your spring look with Thrive cosmetics. Go to thrivecosmetics.com Charlotte for an exclusive offer of 20% off your first order. That's Thrive Cosmetics. C A U S E M E t I c s.com Charlotte.

[Cynthia Nixon]

So Samantha gets her her new apartment that apparently she's renting because then she goes and at one point shouts the rent. Which is interesting. I was like, why is Samantha renting? It's so interesting. But whatever. I mean, I have weird thoughts go through my head sometimes when I watch the old.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

The old and you have highlights in it kind of.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh my highlights are like a terrible mess.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's cute that you notice. Like, one time my hair's like, wavy, like if I just got out of

[Kristen Davis]

the shower or something.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

So good.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Do you think?

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yes. I'm like, oh, well, I watched the whole season three, just the past few weeks, and it just. I said, her hair. Her hair. Like, I'm kidding.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Cuz it's just like they need to be bringing that to the Ayatsi workshops for hair. It's just pictures of you.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yes. So sweet. I did have amazing hair. People over the time, and I'm not. I need to look up more closely who's doing it. At what point, do you know what I mean? Because we did go through many, many people because it was such a hard schedule. But we're off. We're off. Okay, let's talk about the episode Cock a Doodle Doo. Cock a Doodle Doo. It is directed by Ellen Coulter, who's lovely, lovely human being, and written by Cindy Shupak, also a lovely human being

[Kristen Davis]

who's come on the show.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I mean, I wonder if we asked Cindy now what she has to say. She has lived a lot of life since then. She married a man who turned out to be gay. She wrote a book about it. Mm. It's been very interesting. Very interesting. Cindy's had a very interesting life. And I remember at the time that I always felt like she wrote the monologues when Charlotte would talk about, like, I've gotta get married and I'm gonna get this book, and this book is gonna tell me everything, you know, and the girls would just like, roll their eyes. Like, that was Cindy's voice in a lot of ways. So when she did marry this guy, we were like, okay, he rode a white horse at the wedding. Wedding and stuff.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

It was like a whole thing during the show.

[Cynthia Nixon]

No, it was right after. It was right after. We were like, well, Cindy got what she wanted, but not. Not really.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Like, I don't know. I think I'd like to marry a gay man maybe.

[Cynthia Nixon]

But, I mean, I think it wasn't enough for her. But I do think they're friends, you know, it worked out in some ways.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Lavender marriage gone right when.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I don't know if she would say that.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Sure.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I think she was disappointed. But I know what you're saying. Right. And I think if you'd known, maybe

[Dylan Mulvaney]

it could have been better going into it.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right? But I don't.

[Kristen Davis]

I don't think she.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I don't think he did. You know what I'm saying?

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yeah. We're all finding ourselves.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Exactly, exactly. And That's a real thing.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes, it's a real thing.

[Cynthia Nixon]

So for me, I am definitely struggling with some of these episodes where we are off, right, because we really thought of ourselves at the time as being very progressive and inclusive and whatnot. And I think for the year 2000, I guess we were doing the best we could, but it really fell short sometimes.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Well, you know, I think the way that I have watched this episode and want to approach it on the pod is that as I've made all this content about trans people and trans is a large theme of this episode is that I've always just spoke from my personal experience. I've never spoke on behalf of the community. I especially can't speak on behalf of the black trans community, which is an integral part of the episode. And so I think that what I will say is that that year 2000 was the year that I came out to my mom as a girl, and I said, God made a mistake and put a girl into a boy's body. And I think there were no resources. There was nothing to go off of for her. And also that also reflects this episode of. There was, I think, an idea of transness that was being pushed in the media through Silence of the Lambs or Law and svu. It felt like the only people you saw on TV were sex workers. And so I think, for me, the fact that we both cringe at this now, 25 years later, is the way we should be feeling. And it's scary that there are some people in this world and country right now that might watch it and not think it's problematic at all. But I think what we were talking a little bit about before is the fact that now we've gotten to watch and just like that, where there are some more positive, actually quite a few in this new series of showing the same group of people getting to tell a community story in a completely different, more positive way. So that feels like there's some rectification to the situation.

[Kristen Davis]

Right?

[Cynthia Nixon]

We definitely wanted that. You know, we did definitely want that. Because I think also in these years that we're in, which I guess do we start? And just like that, in 2021, I want to say, you know, things were changing rapidly then, but I feel like we. It's like we have a wave of, like, positive growth and then backwards or. Yeah, some people are going in a positive way, and then everyone else is like, no, no, no, we will stay in the back backwards way, whatever. Which is super confusing to me and I'm sure must be very confusing. To you, what do you make of that part?

[Dylan Mulvaney]

I. I think that. Wait, what is the question?

[Cynthia Nixon]

Like the, the like it seems like we make strides.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

We do, but then it's like we take a step forward, then two steps back, you know, moving in the right

[Kristen Davis]

direction, we're going the right way.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

I find it interesting too, because I don't think this episode was written with the intention of like a positive light on the trans community. You know, I don't think the goal was like, we need to give some representation.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Oh no.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

At all. But I do think there's so many people who are trying to make good strides now. Don't always nail it, but at least they're trying. Yeah. And I think better to get a little messy if the intentions are right then than to not at all. Because a lot of people are really scared. But I had a situation recently where a really amazing writer brought me a project that he was like, I wrote this thinking about you and this person's someone I've always wanted to work with. I couldn't end up doing the project cause of something else. But then when I read it, it was like very kind of wrong sort of transition topics. Oh no. But what I thought was, you know, and I sent him a note kind of with a few little touches of what I was picking up on. But it was that he was so excited to you be like, look, I wrote a trans character. And that's why I do think we have to have people of the experience in the room to help create these stories. But I think seeing someone like this man who's of an older generation really try is all that. At least me as someone up and coming, hoping to break through into these spaces to be like, okay, there are people that still are willing to.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I think that's a good point. And I think willing is so important. But I also think that there's so much fear that you will get it wrong.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yes.

[Cynthia Nixon]

You know, and, and like when, you know, when we were, for instance, when we were gonna do the rock character on. And just like that, we had a lot of people that we were consulting with. We consulted with glaad. We had, you know, we, we know children who are non binary.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And so we were talking to them and their parents and the, you know, my kids know people who are trans and non binary who are young because

[Dylan Mulvaney]

they're in that generation now where I feel like there's a lot less hang ups. But it's. And we're so lucky in our little bubble of LA here. But I think that it just goes to show trans people have existed in every space for as long as, you know, we can date back. And so how funny though, that like a character like Rock, which was quite boundary pushing, or Hari Nef in season one, which, like, we love Hari Snef because she played a rabbi. A rabbi. Like that is a different kind of boundary pushing as it was in the original show. But like, in the way that I think that in the right direction.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I agree 100%. And that was our goal in a lot of ways. Because we couldn't push the boundaries in the same way as the first show. Because that wouldn't make sense.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

No.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And because also we're older and times have changed and we, we need to push the boundaries in a different way. But was everyone ready for that? I don't know. You know, who cares?

[Dylan Mulvaney]

But I think for those of us watching it, that like so often I think I hear of other queer creatives looking for someone like themselves. Even though I'm, you know, a 28 year old trans woman, I think just seeing a Rock or, you know, seeing Hari's character, that was enough for me to be like, okay, I'm gonna keep trying to do this because that means that there are people out there that are willing to create for someone like me.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right?

[Kristen Davis]

I agree.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And there is someone's kids walking by when they're watching and just like that. Who might be a Rock and get to see it.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Absolutely, absolutely. I think that's very important. And I think sometimes we forget about it because honestly, you get into, first of all, you're doing your best within it.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And I mean, we stress so much. And we stress so much about Sara Ramirez's character.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

I mean, so much.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And with the comedy element of Sara's character, because it's like what joke is to pushing the boundary.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's almost impossible.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's almost impossible to do. But we really wanted to do it. But then people got really upset with us to the point where, you know, you're just like, you have to really think, like, is it wrong to try? I mean, we certainly consulted so many people. We tried, you know, everything. And I shouldn't even speak because I wasn't integrally involved in that. I was in the Rock situation more so. But, you know, I do feel like we, we did the homework.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

You know, and we had the people who, who came to us and gave notes and we took the notes and all of that. Like it was very important. But on the the same hand, you're never going to Please, everyone.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yeah. And I don't think anyone got notes on this episode that we're talking about.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I don't think there were any notes given. No.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Okay, question for you. Like in the most

[Cynthia Nixon]

foreign

[Kristen Davis]

it's the perfect time to get that Hyundai car or SUV you've been wanting. Because the Hyundai Getaway sales event is happening right now. Enjoy great deals across Hyundai's entire award winning lineup. Like the Tucson with next level tech and safety features. Or the Santa Fe with three full rows of premium comfort Standard Standard. Or the bold and super stylish Elantra. Or go all electric with their breakthrough SUV, the Ioniq 5. You can't go wrong with whatever model you choose. And getting away with a great deal is just the beginning because every new Hyundai is backed by America's best warranty. Which means you can shop with confidence and drive, with unrivaled peace of mind. So get down to your local Hyundai dealer and get away with a deal so right it almost feels wrong. But don't wait. The Hyundai Getaway sales event won't be around for long. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details. Before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes, shopping used to feel more fun. But here's a confession. Are you a Charlotte listeners? You can find that fun feeling again on ebay. Because on ebay it's not just shopping, it's a full on fashion pursuit. And when you find the thing that adrenaline hit is real. I went on to ebay to look for a super special vintage jacket for Charlotte to wear to the gallery and I found the most amazing Mugler jacket and the costume department loved it. It and it felt so good and I still have it at home.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Like when you score that rare Adidas

[Kristen Davis]

collab that's lived on your mood board

[Cynthia Nixon]

or the Dior saddle bag that you ripped right out of a magazine in 2007 and never got over.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, those. It's about the thrill and the pursuit of finding those pieces that feel like you. There's always more to discover. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity guarantee eBay things people love I have to tell you guys about Hill House Home. The brand behind the viral nap dress. The one with the signature smocking is both flattering and comfortable. What I love about Hill House dresses is how versatile they are. I just got the scarlet midi nap dress and I can wear it running errands during the day and at dinner or a party that night. No outfit change required. And it's not just dresses. Hill House started with bedding in 2016 and their robes and pajamas are so soft. Made from the same cotton fabric as their baby onesies. They also have the cutest styles for women, babies and kids, including monogrammable robes, onesies and pajamas that make the perfect cat gift. I love my pink dress that I just got the other day from them. It's so comfortable. I can wear it around the house and then I can run errands, I can go to lunch. It's I it's a dream. Hill House makes fun fashion that makes you feel good, which explains why celebrities like Taylor Swift, Olivia Rodrigo and Anne Hathaway have been spotted wearing it. Honestly, Charlotte York would be all over this. Get 15% off off your first order of $100 or [e-mail] with the code CHARLOTTE15. Again, that's CHARLOTTE15 for 15% [e-mail] Home is your favorite place. Spring is when you let it feel a little more transportive. Discover vibrant scents inspired by places. Bright citrus, fresh florals, clean air energy designed to refresh your space without adding complexity. Just plug in, choose your scent and let the season unfold room by room. Explore the Spring collection [e-mail] I don't know about you guys, but I love taking a nice walk during the day when my kids are at school. So I'm super excited that spring is back and I can get back out there. I love a walk. A refresh can be as simple as amplifying your look with clean beauty from Thrive Cosmetics. Every product is 100, vegan, cruelty free and made with clean skin loving ingredients that work with your skin, not against it. I love, love love love the tinted eyebrow gel. You can use it and it lasts. It really lasts. I feel like even till the next day and it doesn't irritate in any way. I'm really really fond of of it. Another thing I love is every time you use your favorite Thrive Cosmetics product, you're doing more than enhancing your glow. You're helping others shine too. With over 150 million in product and cash donations to 600 plus giving partners, your purchase directly fuels real impact and that's beauty with purpose. And if you haven't tried their viral Liquid Lash Extensions Mascara, it's it's an absolute must. It comes in six shades that last all day without clumping, smudging or flaking. I love it so much it makes your lashes look Extra long by wrapping around each lash from root to tip. Plus, they use nourishing ingredients to support longer, stronger and healthier looking lashes over time. Amplify your spring look with Thrive cosmetics. Go to thrivecosmetics.com Charlotte for an exclusive offer of 20% off your first order order. That's Thrive Cosmetics. C-A U S E M E T I C S.com Charlotte.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Did you have any trans friends like back then?

[Cynthia Nixon]

I didn't. I mean, I had to think through this myself last night because when I was watching it, as I said, we.

[Kristen Davis]

I have.

[Cynthia Nixon]

There's many people in our lives now.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yes.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Who are at different places on the journey of transitioning, of being kids.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Pronouns.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Pronouns. Definitely pronouns.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

A lot of pronouns going around.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Big deal, man.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

It's a big deal in Los Angeles.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's not easy in Los Angeles and New York also.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yes. Everywhere.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yes. I mean, everywhere. But like those are my two places that I really exist and that I have kids in my life that are my friends. Kids or whatever. Friends of my kids.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Cynthia Nixon]

So for us, when I think back on this, because obviously this is Samantha's storyline, I'm very much over in my trace drama.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Oh, you've got. You're in it, honey.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I'm in it big time. And I was very fully in the whole thing. Like, I don't remember all of it. I had Kyle on and we discussed, but I didn't remember all of it. Though I had had Alan Coulter on and he talks about the scene that happens in this episode where we do finally have sex and then we talk about it afterwards.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Oh, yes. We need to get into all that.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah. It's super interesting. I had not remembered it. I had not really remembered it, which is interesting.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

I feel like it was the most honest and it felt like your character was finally breathing with Trey for the first time.

[Cynthia Nixon]

That's so true. That's so true. I really loved watch. I was pleased because I hadn't remembered it because once he comes, it kind of got into like a very. The lines were just so blurred, you know what I mean? As I said to him, like the day that, that Charlotte and Trey got married, I don't care about marriage. I'm not married. I've never wanted to be married. I grew up in the South. That's all anyone talked about. I thought it was so old fashioned and like, blah.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And here you are playing this woman that all she cares about.

[Cynthia Nixon]

She's obsessed. Right. But like come to the wedding day, I was like, not even on the planet Earth. I was just levitating with joy. Like I had the boundaries now. No one else was. Except for Kyle. Enjoyed it. But the girls were like.

[Kristen Davis]

It took so long.

[Cynthia Nixon]

They're asleep. They're so mad. They didn't like their bridesmaids dresses. All the different things. But I'm just like, this is amazing.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

You know what I mean?

[Cynthia Nixon]

I just was just. You know, the lines had blurred in so many ways at that point. Which as an actor. It's a great thing. But it's also interesting.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

I think one of the. I wanna get married so badly. Basically. I think mostly for the wedding. Like, I think that's. Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

People seem to feel that way.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And so you kind of did get the best of both worlds.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I did exactly 100%.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

But then you also did have to get divorced.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's so true. And that was sad. And I think it was confusing also. Because the whole storyline is interestingly confusing.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yes.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And you still don't really know that.

[Kristen Davis]

What's going on with that.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Where it ends in this episode is such a. A confusing place of them finally having this like.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Earth shattering sex.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And it's so exciting. And then he says something like.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Like, will you ask him if he. Do you regret marrying? Like, did you ever really want to marry me?

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Which is really.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

But you said it in a way. Okay. Acting. That was like. It wasn't. You weren't gonna be upset with whatever he said. It was like. It was almost like you just wanted to. It was the idea.

[Cynthia Nixon]

You want to hear it. And I do think that's really major growth for her, for Charlotte.

[Kristen Davis]

You know.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And I also feel like some of it is because they did just have sex. So whatever lingering question she'd had. Because when you do watch the beginning of the series, she has all these interesting insecurities that are like underneath her kind of more adventurousness than you realize.

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Everyone thinks she was like, you know, they're Pollyanna. Pollyanna. But she's out there trying.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

She's kind of weird sometimes.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I know.

[Kristen Davis]

No, totally.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Well, that's. I find my inner Charlotte. Like, I'm a very earnest adult and I've got a lot. I think what I'm hoping to do is get through life with a sense of wonder and innocence. I think innocence in adults. It's almost like we turn 18 and we're all of a sudden gotta harden and become. But I want to constantly be able to find my earnestness.

[Kristen Davis]

I love it.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And I think that's where I relate to Charlotte the most. But I also think she. She's got that little bit of a weird. She can say something sometimes that surprises you. And it happens so often. The girls are there, like, what?

[Cynthia Nixon]

I know, I know, but I think they go together. Because what you're saying is that. And I so respect you for even acknowledging this. Right. As an earnest person myself, yes. It's not easy. The world is trying to shut you

[Dylan Mulvaney]

down more than ever at all times, and especially on social media, I think, because, like, when I go to share something that is really silly or actually relating it back to, like, hyper femininity, for example, I so often, you know, am experiencing something for the first time in my transition, whether that's trying a new makeup product on or having, you know, a romantic experience with a straight man. And people will try to equate that to, like, a caricature or to cosplay of womanhood or that I'm doing it wrong. But I actually think through the characters in Sex and the City, I was able to identify parts of myself through these characters that. Not saying, like, oh, I am that woman. But I really like how she does this, or I like how she handled this. And that scene with Charlotte where she's completely honest with him after that sexual experience, that, to me is. Is the kind of leveled balance that I. I want to find in my womanhood and in the confidence.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Me, too. I mean, are we all looking for those kind of, like, signpost kind of things?

[Dylan Mulvaney]

But. And then there's so many people telling us that we're doing it wrong, though.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right. But you know that it, like, Good Lord, it's 2025. Good God.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And that's where. With the. You know, just personally with gender and identity, I'm like, what. What am I doing that is so offensive to you? Or that actually affects your life really, in any way?

[Kristen Davis]

Totally.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And that's what's confusing to me is we're so busy in other people's shit that we aren't focusing on our own. And I just think it's sad because I do think women get the brunt of it. And I think that right now I've closed off a lot of pieces of myself to protect them when I would love to share them and I would love to be out there talking about certain things. Things. But.

[Cynthia Nixon]

But also, you have to protect, to stay open. I think there is a healthy amount of. Of, like, self protection. Because you're protecting the soft places.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yes.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Because if you just are wide open, they're not going to survive.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

No. And people. The energy vampires will find you.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah.

[Kristen Davis]

Absolutely.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Because they're so out there, and social media is so difficult anyway. And I think sometimes the challenge is, like, finding the balance between expressing yourself and. It's so powerful to express yourself, you know, especially your situation where you're like a beacon of brightness and hope and. And, you know, like, how the world should be, in my opinion.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Thank you.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It's my pleasure.

[Kristen Davis]

It's true.

[Cynthia Nixon]

But I. I feel like that's so important to do, but not at. Not if it's costing you too much, you know, so you always have to protect yourself. It's so important. And I think about this myself in a much lesser. Lesser level, because I am really open, but, like, I have to protect my kids. You know what I'm saying?

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Like, there's certain things, other things now in part of the equation that are

[Cynthia Nixon]

more important than, oh, they look so cute. I want to put them on social media, you know what I'm saying? Because there's a lot of crazy people out there, and I don't need all their opinions, and I don't need their opinions about my kids because are special, obviously, to me and need to be protected. And that's really how, like, our. Our little. Our children. Selves inside us are the same.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yes. And in honoring those parts, because I think I almost went into it and I shared, you know, from day one of transition, that was partly little Dylan, who came out to, you know, her mom when she was 4, saying, this is who I am. And now saying that to the world and then taking all of this in. But I. I do think we can. We. We're always just trying our best, and we. The moments where I look back and. And say, oh, I would have said this differently. Or I would have. You know, maybe I shouldn't have shared that. I just now have to truck forward.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Absolutely not going to be perfect.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

No.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Nobody's perfect. And you're. You're. You know, you're just like. That's also one of the things that I love. And it's. You know, it's so hard because, like, in some ways, I am Charlotte. In some ways, I'm not.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yes.

[Cynthia Nixon]

So when I look back, you know, I have to go, like, taking ownership. Taking ownership, but also, I mean, ownership of my performance. Because sometimes I'm like, oh, I didn't do that well.

[Kristen Davis]

Do what? I mean, like, I felt.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I do. I do occasionally really feel that way.

[Kristen Davis]

Not often.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Not often, but occasionally. Because sometimes, for instance, like the. When I propose to myself with Trey Kyle, and then I go to tell Sarah Jessica Carey about it. You know, I have to use all the names because it's very confusing. I remember that they were very, very focused. You know, when you're in a creative situation and you have a director and you have a writer, right? And they're saying to you, like, you've got to play the shock. You've got to play the shock. You've got to play the shock. It's a very long scene to play. One feeling. It's not really possible.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

But did you give in sometimes?

[Cynthia Nixon]

No, I wish I had. I wish I had. I wish I had had the strength to be like, you know what? I can't play that the whole scene, you guys. I mean, that's obviously the beat that I start with, right? Cause I'm, like, at the door, like, all shocked. I get that. But you can't play one the whole time note the entire time. But I try so hard to do it. Cause I was trying to please them, and it wasn't that good. It could have been so much better. Better if I had given myself freedom to.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

I'm gonna give you an A plus still.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Oh, my God.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

It's exactly how it was supposed to be.

[Cynthia Nixon]

You're so sweet. Okay, good. That's so sweet.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

I mean.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And I do think also, you got to give yourself a break, Right?

[Dylan Mulvaney]

A thousand percent. And that's why I think a break on the episode title, I. And I just. I also love. Okay. I think that we've gone down 7,000 roads.

[Cynthia Nixon]

We have.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

I'd ask if you had known any trans people back in the day, Right.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And I did not.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

So. And then when. Or not that I know of the characters, you had the least to kind of contribute about that specific storyline.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Definitely. Because I'm all stuck in the tray, even in the coffee show.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

But I was thinking about it, too, of, like, now, 25 years later. And I was like, I feel like. Cause Samantha ends up being probably the most transphobic of them all, which I think she would probably be the least.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I know it makes no sense.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Like, that's. Those are the kind of women. I feel like the Chelsea Handler types in my life that I know see me as a woman, like, 100%.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Absolutely.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

But then I was going. I was like, oh, who would have been the most transparent? And I was like, none of those women, I think in New York City in 2025 today would have said any of those things or would have felt that way.

[Cynthia Nixon]

No, I mean, that's what's so shocking. Like, everything about it was so outdated and, like, Crazy watching it.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

But I also think that like, you know, a lot of during that time they were casting men to play trans women. And I looked it up and there's, there was, there was three main leads. It was Destiny, Jo and Chyna.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And what I found interesting, it looks like two of them are non trans, but one was Karen. Covergirl played Joe.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And she very sadly passed away in 2017. But she won all these pageants in the trans circuit and she did, she had this like amazing legacy of dolls and of family that she's built. And I was like, okay, that is a trans woman. That was there, like was a part of that scene, was a part of this episode. And I was thinking about her and how when you're a guest star, you're a day player. You probably don't have the rest. You don't know how they're speaking about you, but how big of a moment that would be. Oh my gosh, I'm a trans woman. In the year 2000, I've been offered this role and in her, you know, taking an opportunity that was very exciting and I can relate to that with like, you know, I got asked to go to the White House to interview the president.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Amazing, right?

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And I never, you know, there never been a trans person to do that and I didn't fully know what I was doing or why, what the bigger picture was. And if I had that information, I, I probably wouldn't have done what I did. And same thing I think about that I question with Karen is if Karen had read that whole script, would she have still wanted to have been a part of that?

[Kristen Davis]

I wish I asked her.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

I know but. Well, rest in peace. Karen, we love you.

[Kristen Davis]

Yes, Karen, thank you for being with us.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

It's just fascinating of having to take the opportunities that you can when they're so hard to come by by.

[Kristen Davis]

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[Cynthia Nixon]

and the costume department loved it and

[Kristen Davis]

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[Cynthia Nixon]

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[Cynthia Nixon]

Well, the other thing that I thought about by the end, because what I do remember of this episode myself is that final scene on the rooftop.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yes. Oh, okay. I have a. There. I have a wall of women at my house in my bedroom and it's been up there for two years, but this is you and the girls in a little screech and white.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Very tasteful.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

It's in tasteful. They're all. I've got Dolly Parton up there. I've got Frida Kahlo.

[Kristen Davis]

Amazing.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

That is. That scene is like, it's just joy and it's like, it's community. And I think, oh, the last line of the episode I found with that, it was, don't worry, they have a very lovely life.

[Kristen Davis]

I know.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Which is a call back to something else that we say earlier.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Well, about the. The rooster. We haven't even talked about the roosters.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Oh, my God. Right?

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Which we love animals.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Totally forgot. I know we love animals. And, like, I was like, wait, what? There's a veterinary rescue, like, next door,

[Dylan Mulvaney]

but they're just going to put them in the basement now. I know what. But what made me laugh was this idea of. I thought Carrie was saying, don't worry, they have a very lovely life. About the trans community.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I know.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And then I was like. Like, well, I don't know if that's the takeaway. And then I was like, it's also really funny thinking about now in 2025. Like, I don't think I would also say that, like, necessarily about the trans community. But then I was like, oh, she's talking about ev. Like, the girls. She's talking about you.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Okay.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And. But it did.

[Cynthia Nixon]

But also, I was like, did we think the show was ending? Like, I'm so. There's so many interesting things.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Three. That felt.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I mean, we shouldn't have thought that. But, like, isn't that a weird way to.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Don't worry. They have a very lovely life.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I was like, that's how we should have ended. And just like that.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Oh, well, that's what.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I mean, had we known that it was the ending, maybe that's how. Maybe we'll just keep that in the

[Kristen Davis]

back of our mind for the future.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

But it did. It just made me laugh because I was like, oh, this isn't. I totally, like, thought it was just about those women having a barbecue. You know what? We threw them a barbecue. They've got a good life.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I mean, I was confused, too. I was like, wait, are we talking about the chickens? Are we talking about. About these trans people who are actually with us now? Like, thank God we're having a barbecue together. Like, it's very interesting and slightly underwritten, I think.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yes. But can I tell you what is so great about an episode like this is because I think flowers can grow from, you know, dead things, and good can come from bad. And I had a situation earlier this year that this episode played a major part in.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Let's hear it.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Are you ready?

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

It was April of this year. I. Oh, gosh. I was leaving to go to London to do a play, and I wanted to get out of America. I felt so polarizing. I felt like the current administration, you know, had a target, even specifically on my back. And I was like, I need to get out. And people don't understand me here. I don't feel safe. And before I was leaving, I was gonna see a Few of my queer and gal friends. Lily was gonna be there and one of our friends was like, just, you know, I have to bring this 22 year old guy from Alabama. He's here from his senior spring break from college in Alabama. Frat guy, you know, lacrosse player.

[Kristen Davis]

Okay.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And so he tells us that this gay friend of ours. And we're like, how did. And we're like, well, we met on vacation. He just wanted. He'd never been to LA before, never been out of Alabama. And so I'm thinking, oh God, I'm going to get hate crimed at this dinner. But. And so me and Lily walk in and we're mostly just excited to see the girls and the gays. And then this guy is sitting at the table. Hottest man we've ever seen. Pringles man, mustache, but in the chicest way.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Oh my God.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And so we're all sitting around and we're gabbing and he's just taking it in. And then somebody says, you know, oh, what sex and city character are you? And we're going around and then he goes, is no one gonna ask me me? And, and we were like, oh, have you seen it? And he was like, I'm on season three.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And basically he starts, he's like, well, you know, I'm kind of a Miranda because I'm, I'm a realist. But you know, I'm really leaning into my, my leading, you know, role energy, main character energy. So I guess I'm kind of carrying that way. And I, you know, I do have a lot of sex, like Samantha. And this is like the most fratty straight man you've ever seen.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Love it.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And so we're, I mean, me and Lily, our jaws are just on the floor drooling. We're like, what? Where did you come from? And then we were like, oh, we'll go. Have you ever been to Davey Wayne's in la?

[Kristen Davis]

No.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

We're going.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Okay.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

So it's a bar where you open up a fridge and you walk through. In Hollywood, total dive bar.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh my God.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

70s vibes.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Oh.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And there was a live band. And when I look back at him, he walks in and I'm like, are you having fun? He was like, this is the best

[Kristen Davis]

day of my life.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And so we're watching the band and he's probably, you know, six, four, I'm five, seven. And I start feeling the little drum on. You know when you've got someone standing behind you and you start feeling the little, the drum of their fingers on your Stomach. And you're going, what's happening?

[Kristen Davis]

Definitely.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And I look to Lily and I'm like, look. Look at the fingers.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, my God.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And so he's, you know, we're like, kind of rocking with the music. The live band's playing. I'm just acting natural. And at this point, my transness has never come up. I've never talked to him about anything like that.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Oh, Lord.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And so I'm like, okay, we need an escape plan from this. So me and Lily go to the bathroom. Like, what do I do? And it's really crazy because as, you know, out there, as I am as a public figure, I still find myself having to come out all the time, especially in romantic situations if I'm just meeting someone at a bar or a club. And so it makes for all these, like, tricky conversations.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I can imagine.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And luckily, the friend that we were with, the. The gay guy was like. Had told Alabama guy that I was trans. He was like, oh, that's okay. You know, that's cool. And I go back out. Voulez Vous from ABBA is playing.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Oh, my God.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

We. We start making out on the dance floor. It was like a. You know, and I'm. I was like, let me just enjoy this for what it is is sure. We. We do a few dances, and then I get into my Uber to go home and he goes, well, I'm coming with you, right? I was like. So I'm like, fine. We pull up to my house. I. I hand him a guitar. I didn't even know if he played guitar. I just handed it to him and said, there, sit on my couch. He starts playing Hotel California.

[Kristen Davis]

Wow.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And. And then I go into my bedroom and I start scooping the cheez its out of my bed. And the Percy pigs. You ever had a Percy pig?

[Kristen Davis]

No.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

I almost brought you some today.

[Kristen Davis]

What is it?

[Dylan Mulvaney]

They're Marks and Spencers that you can only get them in.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, I do love Marks and Spencers.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And they're like sour candy. But I had like, bits of them in the bed. I didn't expect to have anyone over. I thought I was gonna get hate crimed by this guy. And next thing I know, he's playing Hotel California in the living room.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

So I'm scooping all the crumbs out and I'm like, okay, ready? And we have this, like, amazing night. And it was so. Just wild because this is the last person I ever thought that I'd end up in bed with. And also, keep in mind, he had never heard he didn't know me before. And then in the house that, you know, I had a few magazines with my face on it, he was like, oh, my gosh, you're her. And I was like, yeah. And he, you know, brought up this beer.

[Kristen Davis]

The beer thing, the beer thing.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And he was like, oh, that was you? He's like, you're way hotter in person.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Wow.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And I was like, I'll take it. Thank you. And so then we hook up. There was a moment where I got on top of him and he goes, I can't believe I'm having sex with Devin Mulaney. I wanted to die. Do you know what?

[Cynthia Nixon]

That.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

That was bad. I mean, because what do you do? Do you. Do you correct someone in that moment?

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah, I think so.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

I.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Well, but it depends what you want.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

I. It felt like it would have taken a turn in the wrong way, so I ran with it. And so I said, we're just. Right now I'm deafen.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah, why not?

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And, yeah, play it out. So we had this night. We, you know, we're laying in bed and he goes, you're my 33rd. And I was like, what? Like, you're the 33rd woman I've had sex with. And I was like, oh, my gosh. And we hadn't really brought up the trans stuff, but he was like, I've never, you know, done anything queer. I've never. This is crazy. I was like, are you. How was it? He was like, that was great. I knew. I was like, okay, great. And so I really thought it was going to be this one time thing. He puts my phone, my name, and it's Devi on the phone. And I go in and change it. And I was like, this is actually. And he was like, oh, shit, sorry. And the next day, he goes, what are we doing today? And I was like, nothing. I had plans. And he was like, well, can I see you tonight? And I was like, okay. I didn't. I thought, you know, this.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I love this.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

It's going well. Then that night, I had taken a little gummy, and I forgot that he was potentially coming over. And so I'm watching your show, and he texts. He's like, what are you up to? I'm like, oh, I took a gummy and watched Sex and the City. And he goes, can we start at season three, episode 17? That's where I left off.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

So back in Alabama, clearly there was a Netflix account that was sitting on that episode. So I was like, great, we order Taco Bell. Open up. I was already watching the show, I'd go to that episode, we're watching it, cuddling in bed, and then Cock a Doodle Doo comes on. And I'm going, oh, shit. Because I. The whole kind of hope from this scenario with this experience with this guy was that I am not. It's not about my identity. I'm just trying to have fun. I'm learning about my body. And we're watching it and I go, I totally clam up. And I'm like, oh my God, this is so embarrassing. And finally we kind of get through to it and we watch the entire episode actually in silence, pretty much. And then we get to the rooftop scene and he's like, so how does this make you feel?

[Cynthia Nixon]

Wow.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

I was like, okay, 22 year old, you know, college guy. And I go, well, as a trans woman. And he goes, no, he goes, you're a woman. You're not a trans woman, you're a woman.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Amazing.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And I'm like, oh, shit. But I actually started tearing up because this. How crazy. I think that it took that kind of character to get that through my thick skull. And in the last place that I thought it was gonna be in this episode that is so deeply problematic, created this moment for me and this guy to see each other and have him validate the way that I see myself.

[Kristen Davis]

Amazing.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And that was the turning point for me in my transition of being like,

[Kristen Davis]

oh,

[Dylan Mulvaney]

you shouldn't need permission from anyone. But that gave me hope because what it did was I was like, oh, there are still people in this world. There's straight men in this world that see me the way that I want to be seen.

[Kristen Davis]

Amazing.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And so, just so we know that something did come from the Cock a Doodle episode.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And also, I do think the kind of point about it is that even though it's like so. So badly portrayed right. In the episode, you know, I don't know, like, how many other places there. There was any representation at all. Right. Meaning. Not that it really. I don't know if representation is the right word, but because we do end on a joyful note, we're. I wish there was more about how we got there.

[Kristen Davis]

Right, right.

[Cynthia Nixon]

That's the part that's missing for me.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

It almost feels like a scene is missing of the invites going out.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Exactly. Having some realization that maybe she, you know.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yes. Maybe that she handled it wrong or that we're not gonna call them men anymore.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right. Or that was like so stereotypical and like, cliched her projection onto them. But whatever reason, she does get to this Joyful place, which I think is where the show's heart is. Inclusion, you know, joy.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Trying to find the funny and. Trying to find the funny and the

[Cynthia Nixon]

joy and being together, you know, which I think is like. That in some ways is our legacy. Though sometimes you'll watch an episode and you'll be like, ooh, we don't deserve that legacy right this moment. But in the end, we get there

[Dylan Mulvaney]

somehow, which is great. I think you could ask a thousand different trans people about this episode and they'd have very different takes. And especially black trans women, because that is what their story was being portrayed as. And I think that now, going forward 25 years later, thank God we're cringing again at it.

[Kristen Davis]

Right?

[Cynthia Nixon]

And also thank God that there is a straight guy from Alabama who could have such.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

That likes the dolls. They like the dolls.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Love it.

[Kristen Davis]

They do love it. But not even liking the dolls.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I would expect them to like the dolls because I think everyone likes the dolls, really. But that he would have wisdom about you claiming yourself.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And I don't think he knew what that meant. And that's. It's so crazy when you think about moments actually, like me being here with you right now. Like, you don't know how much you've affected someone else's life. And even just. That's why whenever I meet someone out on a street or whatever, I realize that this could be a big moment for them or I don't know what's going on in their life, but I want to make sure that I leave them better than, you know, I met them.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Absolutely.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And that's what he did. And actually we still talk quite a little bit and. But I think that it wasn't about the law long term of it.

[Cynthia Nixon]

It was.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

It was about those little moments. And have you ever been with someone where, like, you got a very specific thing from them and you knew that, like, there was maybe a temptation to, like, keep it going, but you just let it be this special moment?

[Kristen Davis]

Yeah, no, I'm not good at that.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

You don't do that.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I am not good at keeping something simple and short.

[Kristen Davis]

No, you want.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

You play it out until you.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I mean it with the dead horse, old past. I mean, I definitely have been with people. I'm trying to think now. I mean, I definitely feel. I definitely feel like there have been people along the way where there was like a. A point or a message within the relationship, probably for both. The purpose of it, the reason, a purpose, a larger purpose. And I mean, I remember there's a time it's not in this time of the show yet, but it's coming. And there's a scene that everyone loves. I'm not going to give it away now, but there's a scene that everyone loves. And I know what was going on in my personal life, and my personal life was that I was dating someone who for the first time I would say. And I'm like, probably 35 or something at that point.

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Was not pushing me away, saying, you're too much. And. And he was a person that people in my life were like, what are you doing? You know when you have those people are just like, why are you going there? Don't go over there. And I'm like, you don't understand.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

That's Miranda and Carrie in this episode, she's like, going crazy about.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Why are you still talking to Big?

[Kristen Davis]

Right.

[Cynthia Nixon]

We're going to talk about that.

[Kristen Davis]

That scene. I love it so much.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

This guy was saying, you were too much.

[Cynthia Nixon]

No, he was saying that I wasn't too much. He was like the first one that I like quirks. And my. I mean, my quirks weren't always. I don't know, really. Who knows what the problems were with people. But, like, you know when people want

[Dylan Mulvaney]

you to be less all the time.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah. Like, they just want you to be less.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Less emotional, less intense, less needy, I guess. Less, like all the different things. Right. And he was the first one who was like, bring it on.

[Kristen Davis]

It's great.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And it gave you permission.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yes. And embraced, like, was into it.

[Kristen Davis]

You know what I'm saying?

[Cynthia Nixon]

And this is someone who, like, on paper, everybody was like, no, no. And anyone who knew about it at that point, I was keeping things to myself.

[Kristen Davis]

Do you know what I mean?

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yes.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yes. But it was a very important thing.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Did it end. End okay with him?

[Cynthia Nixon]

No, it ended horribly. Horribly. Definitely horribly.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

We got. We got something out of it that's.

[Kristen Davis]

Well, it's also because I stayed too long, Dylan. I stayed too long. Okay.

[Cynthia Nixon]

You know what I'm saying?

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Don't stay too long.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Right.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

That's the.

[Kristen Davis]

Didn't.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Didn't have that part yet, you know,

[Dylan Mulvaney]

But I also think I've had friends where, you know, maybe I don't like their partners. And I don't understand it also, same way around. And I think we all have to live out these stories.

[Kristen Davis]

We have something that we're working on,

[Dylan Mulvaney]

and I think I've also had friends who have tried to teach me what they've gone through and so that I don't go through it.

[Kristen Davis]

But sometimes you work on it that way.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Yeah, no, it doesn't work that way. And that's what. Let's talk for a second. Because I also really didn't remember anything that goes on. Part of what is so fun about rewatching is that I'm like in sometimes. I literally have no memory. Like, I did not remember that Samantha. Sorry. Miranda and Carrie are gonna run into.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Oh my God. We haven't even gotten to there.

[Kristen Davis]

Oh, right.

[Cynthia Nixon]

I mean like so many.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

And I'm like, oh my God.

[Cynthia Nixon]

And then they fight. They fight about it all. I mean, like, it's super fascinating. Our show is very interesting. The highs and the lows.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Can I pee before we talk about it?

[Cynthia Nixon]

Of course.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Okay, we're peeing really quick.

[Cynthia Nixon]

We're going to pee and then we're going to rewatch.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Yes.

[Kristen Davis]

I am obsessed with Hill House Home. The brand behind the viral nap dress with the signature smocking. That's incredibly flattering. Flattering. Unbelievably comfortable and so versatile. I can wear the same one running

[Cynthia Nixon]

errands by day and out to dinner at night.

[Kristen Davis]

I just got one the other day from them. It's pink, it's flowy. I love it so much. You could just put on some flip flops, whatever you want. And you look great and you're totally happy and comfortable. Hill House makes fun fashion that makes you feel good.

[Cynthia Nixon]

Which is why celebrities like Taylor Swift,

[Kristen Davis]

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[Chelsea Handler]

from Dear Chelsea after the Big Game. Like most people, I kept thinking about the commercials and there was one that stayed with me.

[Kristen Davis]

With me.

[Chelsea Handler]

It was from the Blue Square Alliance Against Hate and it wasn't loud or flashy. It showed a Jewish kid being targeted at school and another student who chose not to ignore it. As someone who was Jewish, that moment felt very real to me. Not dramatic, just familiar. And what struck me was how clearly it showed that hate doesn't always announce itself, but the impact is still huge. If you saw the Blue Square spot during the Big game, it's worth thinking about. And if you want to show support, sharing the Blue Square is one small way to do that.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

It's football season and now you can get anything you need for game day delivered with Ubereats. Well, almost. Almost anything. You can't get a running back, but baby back ribs? Yes, Ubereats Official on Demand Food delivery Partner of the NFL.

[Kristen Davis]

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